#wordpress 2017-11-25

2017-11-25 UTC
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upon2020.com uploaded /File:aws-ubos-wordpress-admin-overview.png "Part of the Amazon Web Services setup tutorial https://indieweb.org/File:aws-ubos-wordpress-admin-overview.png"
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upon2020.com uploaded /File:aws-ubos-wordpress-createsite.png "Part of the Amazon Web Services setup tutorial https://indieweb.org/File:aws-ubos-wordpress-createsite.png"
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upon2020.com uploaded /File:aws-ubos-wordpress-front-login.png "Part of the Amazon Web Services setup tutorial https://indieweb.org/File:aws-ubos-wordpress-front-login.png"
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upon2020.com uploaded /File:aws-ubos-wordpress-front.png "Part of the Amazon Web Services setup tutorial https://indieweb.org/File:aws-ubos-wordpress-front.png"
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upon2020.com uploaded /File:aws-ubos-wordpress-listsites.png "Part of the Amazon Web Services setup tutorial https://indieweb.org/File:aws-ubos-wordpress-listsites.png"
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upon2020.com uploaded /File:aws-ubos-wordpress-login.png "Part of the Amazon Web Services setup tutorial https://indieweb.org/File:aws-ubos-wordpress-login.png"
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upon2020.com uploaded /File:aws-ubos-wordpress-update.png "Part of the Amazon Web Services setup tutorial https://indieweb.org/File:aws-ubos-wordpress-update.png"
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upon2020.com created /Tutorial:_Install_WordPress_and_the_Indie_Web_plugins (+5166) "initial content" (view diff)
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j12t Okay, have initial end-to-end-tutorial for Wordpress on EC2: https://quiteunliketea.xyz/wp-admin/
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j12t Sorry, that's the wrong site: https://quiteunliketea.xyz is my demo site
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j12t The tutorial is here: https://indieweb.org/Tutorial:_Set_up_an_IndieWebSite_using_WordPress_on_the_Amazon_cloud
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j12t Now I need help configuring the plugins / themes "optimally".
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upon2020.com edited /Tutorial:_Set_up_an_IndieWebSite_using_WordPress_on_the_Amazon_cloud (+10) "Login covered already in earlier tutorial" (view diff)
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[miklb] j12t just curious why installing the plugins from command line and not through the IW WordPress plugin in the admin?
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GWG j12t: How can we help?
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j12t miklb: as it happens, I have a web page with the answers on that: https://ubos.net/docs/users/apps/wordpress.html
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j12t GWG: I'm unclear just what the "optimal" configuration is ... the perfect help would be if somebody knowledgeable logged into my example instance, and configured it, documenting it step by step as I did
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GWG j12t: I would be happy to try and help
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j12t How do I get a password to you? Have an e-mail/GPG key somewhere?
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GWG j12t: I probably should have GPG set up. Email I have.
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j12t Actually, come to think of it, this is throwaway anyway. Never mind
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GWG j12t: Set up a second admin account and WordPress would send me one.
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GWG But either way...
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GWG I'm always weak in documentation, which is funny considering one of my jobs is to write training documents
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j12t Best if any screen shots look as close to what the reader will see ... if I have them set up an account called "admin" that's what we should use ...
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[chrisaldrich] mrkrndvs I suspect that to add more extensive h-card detail into the theme itself, you'd want to create a child theme and replace some of the template files for your posts. Doing this would involve some code however.
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j12t If you are up to it, just make a long list of steps like here https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Configure_WordPress_and_the_Indie_Web_plugins_to_your_liking
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j12t so admin/qwerqwer (yes I know, it is throw-away after all)
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GWG j12t: I will see about adding a step by step to the plugin itself. It has been on my list.
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j12t I basically installed "everything" relevant that I'm aware of, and so chances are that not all of the plugins/themes that are available make sense at the same time
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GWG I'm going to skip updating to WordPress 4.9 and the latest versions on a list.
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GWG But I don't have privileges to do updates, it seems.
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j12t No .. same reason: UBOS needs to do that. I will probably push WP 4.9 out some time next week.
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j12t Nice side effect: if you have N>1 Wordpresses (or anything else) installed on a server, it's a single command to update them all at the same time.
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[chrisaldrich] j12t, the tough part about setting things up "to your liking" is that there are a multitude of different plugins as well as means of doing various parts of an indieweb configuration.
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[miklb] what is UBOS
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Loqi UBOS (pronounced You-Boss) is a new Linux distro that makes it much simpler to install and maintain indie web and IoT applications on physical servers, cloud servers and devices such as as the Raspberry Pi https://indieweb.org/UBOS
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[chrisaldrich] While there isn't a one-size-fits all solution, one could certainly recommend a minimum threshold, but then folks are likely to want to move beyond that at some point too.
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j12t chrisaldrich: totally agree. The point of these tutorials is to get the user from zero to "it works". So pick whatever is easiest and most compelling. After it works, we can discuss and recommend what else could be done / instead.
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[chrisaldrich] and some pieces are going to be dependent on having an indieweb friendly theme.
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[mrkrndvs] Thanks chrisaldrich now that I have changed my theme, making adjustments is my next step. Will use your advice in your lengthy response (http://boffosocko.com/2017/11/23/a-reply-to-aaron-davis-about-h-cards/) and have a tinker.
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Loqi [Chris Aldrich] A reply to Aaron Davis about h-cards
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[miklb] Not sure I could encourage a WordPress scenario where you had to add/update plugins & themes from the command line. I mean, I use wp-cli for a lot of stuff but a user could still do it from the admin.
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[chrisaldrich] mrkrndvs I have always liked the typography of independent publisher.
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[chrisaldrich] miklb I'd generally agree, especially since command line work can be pretty opaque for most generation 2+ users who are the most likely to benefit from a recipe like this...
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[miklb] yeah, something like UBOS is a gen 1 type user IMO
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[chrisaldrich] It's tough to make the three steps forward without being hampered by advising people to use wp-cli...
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[chrisaldrich] I was looking at setting up a wp-cli recipe for setting up and installing an indie-capable site, but have set it aside for some of the issues I think that Gen2+ would have in utilizing it.
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[miklb] this is more than wp-cli it seems. It’s almost part of the operating system. wp-cli doesn’t replace the admin GUI
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[miklb] I don’t mean to disparage the work. The more options and tutorials the better. I personally couldn’t recommend that to a beginner though.
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j12t This is for somebody who is willing to setup their own server, and take responsibility for it. They will have to run apt-get or pacman or whatever to keep their OS updated otherwise
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[chrisaldrich] I agree and thought that the original purpose of this was to bring the walls down. Kudos on putting together a reasonably followable tutorial though!!
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david.shanske.com created /Tutorial:_Configure_WordPress_and_the_Indie_Web_plugins_to_your_liking (+1934) "Created page with "1. Go to Your Profile(for your user), set up your profile. Most importantly, set your website URL and any profiles on other sites. There are a selection of pre-configured ones an..."" (view diff)
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GWG j12t: How's that?
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j12t Good! What is a good theme to start with?
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[chrisaldrich] mrkrndvs Let us know if you have any questions. It looks like you've got the whole gang in the house tonight if you have issues.
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: Did you try 2.7.0?
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GWG I'm working on 2.7.1 right now with post-release bugfixes
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[chrisaldrich] j12t I'd think either Sempress, ZenPress or Independent Publisher are the best ideas for themes to start.
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[chrisaldrich] @GWG, I've got it up and running and have tested it out a bit. Saw some of the earlier convo about fixes already.
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GWG raamdev finally looked at the Independent Publisher enhancements, but had some concerns.
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[chrisaldrich] I'll try to file anything I see tonight that isn't already in the queue
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[miklb] j12t point taken, but I still wouldn’t want to tie my WordPress plugin and theme updates to the OS and disable the admin option. Nor could I recommend it. But then again, I don’t know UBOS.
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[chrisaldrich] GWG, I was following along in Github, but don't remember any specific reservations he had... I thought it was more about time than anything...
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: The embedding of e-content in the_content.
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[chrisaldrich] j12t I would tend to agree with miklb as disabling the traditional interface would require people to really know wp-cli even better and limit the amount of searchable support was immediately available for a large swath of potential users.
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[chrisaldrich] GWG, I vaguely remember that... Does Sempress do it that way?
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[chrisaldrich] I really need to have a site running sempress or a child to force myself to play with it more.
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: No. It doesn't. I do it that way because otherwise, the display issues are problematic. But as raamdev points out, a plugin calling the_content would therefore get the markup.
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[chrisaldrich] Has anyone set up an indieweb suite of plugins on a multi-site configuration? Does everything work? I'm tempted to do one as a means of pulling in 2nd/3rd gen users or friends who are interested in kicking the tires so-to-speak.
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: No, but it would be a good idea. I'd be happy to implement anything that needed implementing to help.
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[chrisaldrich] I've been thinking about the business model for edublogs and considering creating a multi-site instance somewhat like they've got (though naturally focused on indieweb technologies instead of education).
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[chrisaldrich] Sadly my experience with multi-site hovers just above zero.
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[chrisaldrich] Perhaps I'll experiment around with it when I'm done with my writing marathon?
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GWG I did one a few years ago, but there were some issues that caused me to split the sites again.
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[mrkrndvs] chrisaldrich I wonder what it would take for someone like Edublogs to incorporate some of the elements of the #indieweb. Like your idea of a multisite though.
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upon2020.com edited /Tutorial:_Configure_WordPress_and_the_Indie_Web_plugins_to_your_liking (+1933) "Added theme, some detail and reformatting. Screenshots to come." (view diff)
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j12t Q: In "Add new post", what am I supposed to enter into "Syndication links"?
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GWG j12t: Nothing unless you want to.
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j12t but what does it do?
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upon2020.com created /Tutorial:_Write_your_first_WordPress_post_and_syndicate_it_out (+1165) "initial content" (view diff)
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GWG j12t: It allows you to manually add Syndication Links. Many things add them automatically.
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j12t I'm not getting the use case ... if the default is that I leave this empty, when would I not?
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GWG j12t: It is for manual syndication, as opposed to automatic syndication. Some plugins automatically add to this box.
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j12t I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is a big scary looking text field in the middle of my New Post page, about 50% as big as the field for the content of my post, looking like it's demanding input, but there are no contextual clues about what should or should not be entered.
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j12t It sounds like something that should hide behind an "expert mode"?
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GWG j12t: It can be hidden under Screen Options, but I have to look if you can have something be not enabled by default in that.
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j12t IMHO that should be the default :-)
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GWG j12t: It looks like that is doable.
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GWG Making a note.
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[miklb] j12t bear in mind some of the UI is just how the WordPress admin works. There’s not a lot of control over how the boxes fit/size
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j12t ty.
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j12t there is this great book: https://www.amazon.com/Great-Demo-Stunning-Software-Demonstrations/dp/059534559X
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j12t his essential point is that for a great software demo, you need to get from start to "wow, I want this" within like 3 minutes. All details come later
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j12t I always thought software should be that way: get up and running without options, configuration, ... with the minimal fuzz
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j12t that means taking away everything and anything that might be distracting
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j12t in that spirit ... :-)
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GWG [miklb]: Fit yes, but I can hide the box unless you go to Screen Options and enable it.
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GWG Most people aren't using it by default.
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j12t Great!
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GWG j12t: I made a note of it for when I'm settling down to add new features.
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[miklb] I understand that. I just feel like sometimes feedback on the IW WordPress experience doesn’t take into account the constraints of the WordPress admin and what plugin developers are limited in doing from a UI standpoint and that tradeoffs sometimes are made.
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j12t I totally understand that. Cleanly extending spaghetti is just not something that's possible ...
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[miklb] Personally, I have been shoe-horning WordPress for 10 years, so I’m comfortable with all of the extra fields. But I get the point that from someone not as familiar with extending with a lot custom meta boxes could be taken aback by the UI.
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j12t The competition for the IndieWeb is Facebook. No extra fields there :-)
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[miklb] WordPress != Facebook
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j12t I know we need to make do with what we have, I'm just interested in tearing down as many obstacles or perceived obstacles as possible
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[miklb] we all are
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[miklb] I greatly appreciate your efforts in the wiki.
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j12t So I'm planning to push next Wordpress version into UBOS repos soon, then I will create/update some screen shots without the upgrade warnings
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j12t And I also want to do the whole thing, end to end, on video / screen cast. I think it can be done in less than 10min if typing fast, and it would be a great proof point
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j12t "Yea, it's more complicated than X, but some dude setup the whole thing in 10min, so it can't be that complicated"
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[chrisaldrich] GWG, I'd be careful hiding syndication links by default. Most users who install the plugin are going to be immediately wondering where the field is after they activate it.
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[miklb] some dude who is familiar with UBOS and Amazon EC2
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[chrisaldrich] I always have the feeling that too many people don't know that screen options even exists to bring things back, much less that they can drag and drop those meta boxes to places they want in the admin ui.
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j12t It's just following the tutorial. I learned how to do 3D CAD by following some video tutorials going through completely non-obvious GUIs. It can be done :-)
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[miklb] which reminds me, I should check out where Gutenberg is these days.
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: So, what is the answer then? At the least, I need to put in an explanation somehow.
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[chrisaldrich] The more I think about it, I keep wondering why they keep pushing gutenberg instead of pushing micropub....
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[chrisaldrich] GWG, I would suggest that someone like j12t who wants to hide it in a simple install like he's talking about, should do it via wp-cli or in specific code.
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[miklb] j12t I’m from the under promise over preform school so I am hesitant to use the learn programming in 30 days school.
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[chrisaldrich] I suspect most who download and install it do so as an a-la carte thing or as part of the indieweb installation workflow and know what it is and what it does.
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[chrisaldrich] If it isn't clear what it is or does, we can write some slightly better documentation to clear that part up.
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[miklb] chrisaldrich Gutenberg is replacing TinyMCE and widgets and meta boxes, for an admin UI. Not sure where micropub fits in.
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[chrisaldrich] I keep hearing that Gutenberg is a better/easier client for publishing to WordPress. Why not do that workflow with micropub so that clients doing custom publishing would work not only with WordPress, but could be leveraged to publish almost anywhere on the web?
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[chrisaldrich] (Naturally I've dug into Gutenberg beyond this simple idea, but given what it seems to be meant to solve....)
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[chrisaldrich] As an example, I'm always seeing dev shops building for gen4 users and spending a lot of time hiding UI so they can't "screw up" their posts. Why not just create a clean micropub client that only allows the 2-3 fields they want to give the user, and rely on the plumbing to do it's job?
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[miklb] Well, they have the Rest API for that…I get your point, but I don’t think we’re at a point where the millions of people using WordPress in the browser are going to switch just yet.
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[chrisaldrich] I just remember the days in which there were thousands of Twitter clients, it'd be cool to see that kind of proliferation happening not only for WordPress, but for any other CMS that supported micropub.
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[miklb] I’ve been one of those devs who hid as much as possible from content creators. Not so they wouldn’t screw anything up, they just didn’t need the distraction. They had one focus and there was no need to confuse them with a huge menu of stuff they didn’t need to bother with.
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[chrisaldrich] As an example, micro.blog has a pretty clean interface for posting status updates to WordPress, or MarsEdit for generic posts. It would be cool if these were more broadly supported for all platforms instead of just some.
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[chrisaldrich] #bluesky
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: I tried building a much simpler posting UI
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GWG Might be easier to use Quill.
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[chrisaldrich] Quill is certainly a great example. Wish it worked natively with Post Kinds though. I see a lot of wonky posts by folks using it or other micropub tools in combination with Post Kinds....
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[chrisaldrich] multi-site << https://miklb.com/2017/11/towards-an-indieweb-way-of-life-public-profile/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://miklb.com/2017/11/towards-an-indieweb-way-of-life-public-profile/" to the "See Also" section of /multi-site_indieweb
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Loqi [Michael Bishop] Towards an IndieWeb Way of Life™ Public Profile
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: Working on Micropub and Post Kinds support for Quill might be a useful thing.
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[miklb] What doesn’t work with post kinds and Quill?
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GWG Itineraries
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[miklb] oh, chrisaldrich said he’s seen a lot of wonky posts, was curious if he knew what wasn’t rendering correctly
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[chrisaldrich] Let me see if I can find some examples...
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[chrisaldrich] This looks about like the type of post I've seen on a few sites using Post Kinds and seems to have come from somewhere else like Quill, though perhaps I'm wrong): https://stephenpieper.net/general/3179/
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Loqi [Stephen Pieper] a post by Likes https://eddiehinkle.com/2017/11/10/5/article/. https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/72070adc972a5910164f457a5eec8081?s=100&r=g
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[chrisaldrich] multi-site << https://www.baty.net/2017/on-having-too-many-blogs/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.baty.net/2017/on-having-too-many-blogs/" to the "See Also" section of /multi-site_indieweb
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Loqi [Jack Baty] On Having Too Many Blogs
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[miklb] chrisaldrich that’s just how a default like displays afaik
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[miklb] definitely not limited to quill
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[chrisaldrich] It may have been made by the press-this bookmarklet too... Better would be for the link to be in the URL field with the fetch/parser data filled in.
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[chrisaldrich] At least it's prettier that way IMHO.
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[miklb] I believe that is on the roadmap for post kinds, at least I know it’s been discussed.
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[chrisaldrich] I think so too based on what I remember GWG saying about the fetch functionality begin automated at a later date.
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: I want to, yes.
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[miklb] but that’s not an issue with Quill.
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[chrisaldrich] GWG++ for the UI set up on Post Kinds (despite his always saying he's not a great designer...)
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Loqi gwg has 21 karma in this channel (275 overall)
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[chrisaldrich] Yes, it's definitely a receiving/display issue on the WP side...
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GWG Anyone speak another language?
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GWG https://translate.wordpress.org/projects/wp-plugins/indieweb-post-kinds - I could probably use some help with translations for my plugins.
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[miklb] GWG testing 2.7.1 post kinds, if I retrieve a Tweet URL to do a reply, it makes the tweet I’m replying to the title. Is that expected behavior?
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GWG [miklb]: It fills in the title from the title of the retrieved URL if nothing is set. Not new behavior though. Been that way for a long while now.
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[miklb] well, it never pulled in the whole tweet as the title before.
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[miklb] weird. this tweet it pulls in the title https://twitter.com/FJdeKermadec/status/934315906490159104
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@FJdeKermadec Your enlightened thought of the morning: if you position yourself as a leader of the #IndieWeb and #MicroBlogging movements, maybe the URL of your #RSS Feed should not contain the words “http://something-demo.appspot.com” in lieu of your blog’s actual domain? ? (twitter.com/_/status/934315906490159104)
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[miklb] but the reply later https://twitter.com/FJdeKermadec/status/934327345934200833 doesn’t pull in the tweet as a title
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@FJdeKermadec @miklb The microservice is indeed not the issue… The issue, as I see it, at least, is that third-party URLs are inherently more brittle (less future-proof) and that a URL using the word “demo” is even less likely to belong to a production or stable server. ? (twitter.com/_/status/934327345934200833)
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GWG [miklb]: What should be the behavior?
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[miklb] I don’t know, maybe more of a general question as to how a reply should be marked up. Should it be the title of a note?
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[miklb] rather, should the tweet/note you are replying to be the title of your note.
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[miklb] Just so I’m thorough, when I retrieve the tweet url, the title field is filled in with the tweet content https://cdn.miklb.com/Add_New_Post__Miklb_Dev__WordPress_2017-11-25_12-58-48.png
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[miklb] So is that a question for #microformats or #dev ?
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GWG The alternative is to go for a blank title, which some people do
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[miklb] if the content of the tweet is supposed to be marked up like a title, I just want to understand the mf2. Or iw the post-kinds template is handling how it is displayed?
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[miklb] s/iw/if/
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[miklb] But if it’s not, then I would recommend not filling in the field because a new user wouldn’t know they are supposed to clear the title field before publishing.
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GWG Open an issue on that?
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GWG If you could
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[miklb] sure!
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[miklb] I’ll find different benign tweet urls to use as an example
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[miklb] having difficulty finding another example. odd
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[miklb] and some tweets don’t add anything to the title. I can’t find anything different in the tweets to differentiate one to get a title and one not to. I’ll investigate further.
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[miklb] GWG I found an open issue on the subject and added my observations.
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