#wordpress 2018-10-20

2018-10-20 UTC
mardb, gRegorLove, [tantek], [Rose], Frankm, [jeremycherfas], Saa, cowglow, [cowglow], sebsel and [Marco] joined the channel
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petermolnar ClassicPress, the revival of pre 3.0 WP, on top of SQLite, that would be a very, very nice project :) (no multisite, media hooks respected on both backend and frontend, no react, etc), not that it's going to happen :D
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petermolnar interesting to see all the outcries coming from e-commerce on that comment thread, and not from the website/blog projects
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[jgmac1106] Actually @petermolnar @gwg been talking to Classic Press folks to get native microformats
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[jgmac1106] Any up voting on the feature request is appreciated
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GWG I have?
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GWG chrisaldrich did that
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GWG I should talk as opposed to just lurking in their slack
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Loqi definitely
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[jgmac1106] Oops my bad. I thought you started the feature request. It is climbing in votes
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GWG Yes
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[Khurt] Arrgh! I hate when things stop working and I can’t figure out why. Post Kinds are not working properly and neither are Webmentions and and Brid.gy syndications. Other than some plugin updates nothing else on this site has changed. I don’t know if the issue is a plug-in or which plugin. Or it the theme or MF2 plugin. Or … something else.
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GWG [Khurt]: Can you define 'stop working'?
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petermolnar ah, ok, so ClassicPress is a pre-5 fork
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petermolnar nah, that's not classic
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GWG They plan on much more
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petermolnar can I read about those plans somewhere?
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GWG Their voting forum and slack seems to be the best way
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GWG I am not sure if they will pivot the way I hope
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GWG https://petitions.classicpress.net/
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[jgmac1106] Well let's keep folks up voting
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GWG I just asked and they seem open
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[jgmac1106] [Khurt] there is a known bug when using the mf2 stream with post kinds. Have to make some changes to post kinds
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[jgmac1106] I recommended it to you before it was ready... Well mf2 stream is ready... Just need to tweak post kinds but @gwg working on location since reverse look up got cut off
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GWG I just did a lot of work to fix it. But the enhancements to mf2 feed aren't there yet
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[jgmac1106] [Khurt] if you want to use an IndieWeb theme but still get all the photography display options you can use a page builder. That is what I do
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GWG The new Post Kinds starts a lot of new photo enhancement features that I want to add
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[jgmac1106] Yeah I saw @gwg they are awesome. This was more about the gallery display. [Khurt] has mainly a photography blog... Which makes our themes incompatible with his goals... I know page builder is a bad word but it gives people design flexibility
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GWG I have this idea of a gallery display being a post archive
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GWG I think I have said that
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[Khurt] Stopped working means that my web site is no longer sending/receiving Webmentions. It means that the response properties of post kinds like reply, like, issue don’t display when certain features of JetPack are enabled. It all worked before and now ... nothing. I would be less frustrated if I could trouble shoot this myself. But ...
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[Khurt] Any work around?
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GWG I just fixed a Jetpack issue. But I don't use Jetpack so I wouldn't have caught it if no one said anything
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GWG Which features so I can try to fix?
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GWG I am on my way to Hamilton NJ but I can read code on my phone
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[Khurt] Truth be told, I want to be able to use any theme especially one that had the layout for images that I like. But ... it seems I won’t have that freedom. Or use the theme I want but lose out on doing many IndieWeb things.
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[Khurt] I live in Skillman a few miles from Princeton and about 20 minutes from Hamilton. How long will you be in Hamilton?
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GWG I am just visiting a friend
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GWG I have never been
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GWG If we finish mf2 feed, then it may help
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GWG But the idea Jetpack is breaking things is something that I want to explain
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GWG Any particular Jetpack modules
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[jgmac1106] jetpack--
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Loqi jetpack has -1 karma over the last year
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GWG I just had to write code because jackjamieson discovered that unknown to me, Jetpack added hidden geo location code in 2017.
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GWG Okay, loaded the ClassicPress petitions
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[pfefferle] Good morning
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[jgmac1106] Good morning
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GWG Hi, pfefferle
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[jgmac1106] @gwg did you see this? https://indieweb.org/User:Itheorist.com
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[jgmac1106] Maybe able to help you on simple location
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GWG Any chance I can tempt you to come to Berlin?
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GWG jgmac1106, will reach out
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[pfefferle] GWG hmmm, perhaps very spontaneous
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[pfefferle] We are on Hollidays until the 02.11.
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[pfefferle] Sadly i couldn’t join IWC Nürnberg 😟
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dougbeal "plugin that creates a draft page with 1 of every Gutenberg block." https://wordpress.org/plugins/block-unit-test/
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Loqi [Rich Tabor] Description The Block Unit Test plugin is a development tool to help folks make better WordPress themes by preparing for the upcoming Gutenberg block editor. If you’re familiar with the WordPress Theme Unit Test, the Block Unit Test plugin is esse...
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dougbeal Also: https://wptavern.com/gutenberg-accessibility-audit-postponed-indefinitely
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dougbeal gutenberg--
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Loqi gutenberg has -1 karma over the last year
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GWG I am tempted by ClassicPress even with a business focus
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GWG pfefferle, what are your top Indieweb issues/desires?
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GWG dougbeal, how is Simple Location working for you? I know you've filed bugs in the past
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[pfefferle] Mine or the top things I want to work on?
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GWG Both?
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GWG I don't get to hear what your priorities are
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[pfefferle] The main issue is microformats I think... and I am working on activitypub stuff
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[pfefferle] So not directly I indieweb related
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GWG I just finished all these Microformats changes to try to be in compliance
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[pfefferle] 👍
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dougbeal GWG: I'm happy with all location displays when it comes from another source (swarm)
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dougbeal GWG: creating a location via the wp ui isn't feasable
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GWG dougbeal, why?
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GWG pfefferle, new posts should be correct going forward
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GWG dougbeal, with Indigenous for Android supporting location you'll see more Micropub options from me
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[pfefferle] 👍
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GWG pfefferle, I am thinking of moving citations from nested inside the mf2 property to a cpt. Thoughts?
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GWG dougbeal, I am thinking if I get geofencing and privacy right, that I'd store location automatically on all posts and you would just have to decide to show it.
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dougbeal GWG: I only tried it when creating my first event in August. I ended up hand coding the location.
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GWG Okay. Well, working on fixes now. We'll see how far I can get.
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[pfefferle] GWG cpt?
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GWG Custom Post Type
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[pfefferle] Only the citation?
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GWG Yes, what else would you suggest?
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GWG I have Indieweb post types as a taxonomy
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[pfefferle] To have a better data storage?
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GWG Yes, basically, no nested Microformats
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GWG Citations would have their own url, like attachments
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[pfefferle] I have not really thought about that topic at all, but storing a lot of data in one single data array seems not very flexible
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GWG I keep iterating
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[pfefferle] But I am not sure if I would prefer a cpt. over a dedicated post-meta entry
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GWG Well, it allows for more control possibly
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[pfefferle] Sure, but it might be confusing to have a „part“ of a post listed like a complete post
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[pfefferle] Have you discussed that with someone using static file systems? Perhaps you can learn from their storage system?
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GWG pfefferle, no one ever notices attachments have a URL because they are embedded
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[pfefferle] But they hide the UI, so it does not help with flexibility
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[pfefferle] If you introduce some kind of „following“ feature, where you store posts from others, to have a simpler citation possibility, it really would make sense
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GWG I am still thinking about it
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[pfefferle] Perhaps working directly with the microsub plugin
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[pfefferle] And use the same storage
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GWG Perhaps
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[pfefferle] Back on the old storing discussion 😉
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GWG Well, I am talking to the Microsub programmer regularly and we are sharing code
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[pfefferle] I know, that’s why I thought about it
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[pfefferle] 😉
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[pfefferle] There is no developer that works on IndieWeb stuff that haven‘t heard of/from you I think 😉
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[pfefferle] GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 81 karma in this channel over the last year (160 in all channels)
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GWG Would you be interested in sharing the parsing code in Semantic Linkbacks too?
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GWG I am persistent
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[pfefferle] It is already shared, or what exactly do you mean?
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[pfefferle] The parse-this idea?
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GWG Yes
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GWG The code to clean it up
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[pfefferle] Hmm, I like the idea of cleaning up Semantic-Linkbacks code... I am not sure if I think parse-this is the right way...
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[pfefferle] It is a plugin, not a generic lib, so including/requiring it is difficult
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GWG It's both though
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GWG I set it up to work both ways
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GWG I load it in Post Kinds as a library and develop it like a plugin
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[pfefferle] But it interferes/uses hooks and stores data that might be changed by other plugins if it used by more than one
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[pfefferle] How much is the overhead code that we do not need for semantic-linkbacks?
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GWG pfefferle, each piece can be loaded independently though
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GWG But what code is overhead?
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GWG The ogp parsing I suppose, but that would be interesting in Semantic Linkbacks
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GWG I updated it to only generate a single domdocument and pass it around
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GWG I would like to figure out how to make it work
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[pfefferle] It was only a question
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[pfefferle] Does it Potentiate (is this a word in English) if we use dependencies with dependencies? What if a plugins uses different versions of parse this and mf2
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[pfefferle] ?
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[pfefferle] GWG will think about the idea and will have a deeper look into the parse this code
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[pfefferle] I like the idea in general but dependencies in WordPress is a mess!
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[pfefferle] Will also have a look at the Post-Kinds integration
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GWG We have that problem already. Partially why I wrote it to be usable as a plugin and that the plugin version will override add a message to the settings page so you can tell. I don't like the idea of having to install php-mf2 in everything
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GWG So, Parse This has a rest API component to return jf2
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GWG So it could even be used separately
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GWG pfefferle, I value your opinion. I want to make it work best for all and avoid duplication of effort
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[pfefferle] So in this case it could perhaps replace SL completely and directly work with the Webmention plugin
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GWG pfefferle, perhaps.
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[pfefferle] In this case it would really be an optimization
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GWG pfefferle, think about it
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[pfefferle] Sure!
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GWG How we might make duplication less while not ending up in this dependency issue
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GWG I tried composer and submodules and ended up where I did
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[pfefferle] I would prefer to only think about replacing SL with parse-this 😉
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[pfefferle] The other problem is too frustrating
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GWG pfefferle, I guess I need an mf2 comment class?
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[pfefferle] It would be so easy if WordPress would support plugin dependencies
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GWG pfefferle, ClassicPress has it on the list.
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[pfefferle] I will not switch, and I do not think that classicpress can deliver so fast
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[pfefferle] Hopefully they will force the WordPress community to react on some issues thou
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GWG I said that I was willing to help.
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GWG But I will play all sides.
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[pfefferle] GWGPress 😉
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GWG Parse This could be a replacement for oembed in WordPress also
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GWG I still want to offer h-card import for WordPress users
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GWG I have a lot of interesting ideas
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[pfefferle] What is the usecase for that?
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GWG pfefferle, contact list.
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[pfefferle] But this is no feature of Wordpress
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GWG Imagine if I added carddav to WordPress, and merged my phone contact list with my website?
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GWG Also, a nicknames cache would be possible
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[pfefferle] But this is no benefit for WordPress, but for the indieweb
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[pfefferle] So I see no core functionality yet
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GWG pfefferle, oh, sorry, I switched back to what I could do with Parse This
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GWG Not specifically for Core
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[pfefferle] Ah ok
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[pfefferle] i missed that 😉
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GWG Things I could do with a full featured parser
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[pfefferle] I do not really use my blog in this way I think
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GWG My goal is to change everything to mf2
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GWG pfefferle, neither do I
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GWG I may never, but I think about it
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GWG My website is supposed to be me. What do I use?
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GWG So, who knows?
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GWG I have so many ideas and never enough time, so they may remain dreams
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[pfefferle] But then I really fear a bloated parser code, that does way to much for the things I neeed for Webmentions
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GWG pfefferle, I would have much of this outside of Parse This. This is just applications
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[pfefferle] Perhaps you should really start to work an THE indieweb plugin!
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GWG You mean...a unified plugin?
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GWG We have an Indieweb plugin.
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[pfefferle] ☺
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[asuh] That’s what I alluded to a few days ago, joining all four plugins you both have into one
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[pfefferle] We discussed that a lot
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GWG Back to Jetpack for Indieweb?
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GWG What should merge in?
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GWG And how do we decide?
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[asuh] All plugins dealing with syndication send and receive could be one global plugin
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GWG And there are other issues
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GWG I like Post Kinds, but it isn't for everyone clearly
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[asuh] Yes, Post Kinds stands on its own
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GWG Syndication Links seems to be pretty neutral.
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GWG I have announced it will merge in Bridgy Publish and other Syndication functionality
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GWG Webmention was kept separate due the idea it might be a feature plugin, but that seems unlikely
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[asuh] Bridgy Publish -> Syndication Links is a good merge
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GWG Yes, and it will an improvement in design if I ever get back to it
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[pfefferle] Too many projects 😉
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GWG pfefferle, exactly
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GWG Then someone throws a wrench into my schedule, like this Nominatim thing
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[pfefferle] Start a patreon campaign and quit your job!
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[pfefferle] I will support you!
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[pfefferle] Nominatim?
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GWG pfefferle, my location plugin used Nominatim for reverse geolocation and they are blocking it
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[pfefferle] Oh
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GWG So I needed to stop and write a new provider
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GWG Or two
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GWG Changed my plans
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[pfefferle] 😟
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GWG Right when Indigenous for Android implemented location support
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[pfefferle] Good timing ☺
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GWG And I always post a lot of locations when I travel
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GWG So I want to fix pre Berlin
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[pfefferle] Good luck!
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GWG pfefferle, give me a few days and it shall be done
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GWG With other improvements too
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GWG Already fixed a few
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GWG I intend to make sure that this doesn't happen again
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[pfefferle] What about make it optional?
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GWG Make which?
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[pfefferle] The reverse geo location stuff
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dougbeal GWG: I wonder how many resources Nominatim uses. Maybe an indieweb install is the way to go?
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[pfefferle] So I am off for today... time to sleep... bye 👋
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GWG I am going to work on a non dependent display
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GWG dougbeal, 30gb of data
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GWG I intend to support alternate nominatim servers
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GWG I have the code already so why not?
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dougbeal o/ [pfefferle]
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GWG Wait, I am wrong
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GWG A minimum of 2GB of RAM is required or installation will fail. For a full planet import 32GB of RAM or more strongly are recommended.
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GWG For a full planet install you will need at least 700GB of hard disk space (take into account that the OSM database is growing fast). SSD disks will help considerably to speed up import and queries.
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GWG On a 6-core machine with 32GB RAM and SSDs the import of a full planet takes a bit more than 2 days. Without SSDs 7-8 days are more realistic.
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GWG No wonder not even aaronpk built one
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dougbeal GWG: ouch
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GWG Yup