#wordpress 2018-11-19
2018-11-19 UTC
[jgmac1106], cambridgeport90, [tantek], [eddie] and [asuh] joined the channel
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[asuh] [Csongor] Welcome! I'd be interested in assisting you if you want more eyes or hands. I freelance part-time with custom WP themes so I contribute to Indieweb in small ways when I'm able. Have customized my own personal WP theme from scratch and am exploring adding React.js on top of it. So much potential for WP themes in this area.
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[Csongor] Thanks [asuh] :)
# [Csongor] [petermolnar_] yeah I’m yes Hungarian but my roots are on Mars :))
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petermolnar no Syrius?! come on :D
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# [Csongor] is it a good life over there ??? :)))
# [Csongor] [jgmac1106] just think about Gutenberg which is React. It’s clear WordPress is moving to that direction. I’m a huge advocate of purism ... that’s why React (and Vue) makes more and more sense when creating user interfaces. In my opinion both HTML and CSS were good up until now but in the future we need programming languages replacing these declarative languages
# [Csongor] Right now I’m playing with Indieweb technology and will come up with a complete sugestion regardless of technology.
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[jgmac1106] cool, yeah most of us a re back to the future crowd and believe longevity lies in preserving html/css
# [Csongor] No problem :)
# [jgmac1106] but if you can figure out Gutenberg and mf2 correctly you will be everyone's hero
# [Csongor] haha that’s my plan :)
# [Csongor] not hero but to see clear :)
# [jgmac1106] As a teacher I focus on trying to create better users, not just interfaces, think HTML should replace cursive
# [jgmac1106] every young CompSci student I know takes what could be webpage that would take 70 lines of HTM:L and builds a silly REACT app that no mortal can read when they hit "source code"
# [Csongor] I see your concern here
# [Csongor] React can generate 100% w3c valid code
# [jgmac1106] A lot of us following ClassicPress as well to see if that community will take off, we see how much control Automatic has on an "open source" project
# petermolnar [Csongor]: React is yet another everything-old-is-new-again, it's basically Delphi interfaces for the web
# petermolnar eventually someone will come up with the brilliant idea to separate logic, content, and display, again
# [Csongor] [jgmac1106] Right Gutenberg is not eady yet for prime time https://morethemes.baby/2018/11/14/playing-with-gutenberg-and-react/#more-2055
# petermolnar now, the problem is not whether or not React generates valid code, but it's availability - most of us try to make things available without JS, so things like curl or wget can eat it as well; if I'm correct, React can do server side rendering, but that's not the generic direction we mainly see
# [jgmac1106] "can generate 100% w3c valid code" but most people only render client-side and I nee nothing but links to javascripts
# [jgmac1106] see*
# petermolnar oh, I asked my wife to try Gutenberg vs Advanced TinyMCE + one of the pagebuilders; after 3 days she begged me to turn it off
# [Csongor] [petermolnar_] It might be ... I’m seeing another way ... after ten years using html/css i really like what react offers in terms of productivity
# [Csongor] and clarity
# petermolnar sure; the old interfaces were actually quite nice
# [jgmac1106] yeah here is how I IndieWeb Wordpress (or did) either SemPress or 2016-IndieWeb + Elementor page builder
# [Csongor] yeah React can be misused heavily
# petermolnar (old => either mainframe-style, terminal applications or windows desktop applications)
# [jgmac1106] though I would be happy to never write a WP shortcode again
# petermolnar and I completely understand why it's a relief to do everything in the same thing
# petermolnar my main issue is that it React is for web _applications_ - not websites.
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# petermolnar websites are text, maybe some images, or occasional video/sound
# petermolnar but they are not apps
# petermolnar for something like WP admin area, it makes complete sense
# petermolnar for displaying text posts, it really doesn't
# [jgmac1106] shocking that a community of hundreds of developers writing php for over a decade couldn't switch to React overnight
# [Csongor] ok guys 😄 have a meeting at 6.30 ... my summary is that React / Vue can be used to generate exactly the same HTML you would written by hand
# petermolnar we know that
# [jgmac1106] thousands if not tens of thousands of developers......cool then write by hand 🙂
# petermolnar I'd like to hear responses for our concerns, re wget, curl, etc support
# [jgmac1106] have a wonderful day and as long as you use open standards and have a website we are always cool, everything else watercooler talk
# petermolnar (btw... document.write can generate 100% valid html, it doesn't mean it's accessible)
# [jgmac1106] I have to go teach phonics.....,.the original code humans had to parse
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# [jgmac1106] well I guess, phonemes were invented...or a tleast have to be learned first, so I guess that is OG code, we naturally parse language not counting that
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[kevinmarks] Phonemes are a bit more natural, but orthographies are invented.
# [kevinmarks] Do you listen to lingthusiasm?
# [jgmac1106] yes, I forgot you would be able to nerd out on literacy stuff....but phonemes don't exist in cultures without written language, more natural but still human invention
# [jgmac1106] want to listen to lingthusiasm
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