#wordpress 2018-12-19
2018-12-19 UTC
[tantek] and [jgmac1106] joined the channel
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[matpacker] A couple of days on and I still can’t upload images to my wordpress install. The Jetpack team have looked, all checks out. The WordPress “premium” support guys have taken a look, all checks out. And DreamHost have taken a look, all checks out.
# [matpacker] Quite. So I’m taking the nuclear option.
# [matpacker] It’s not overly dramatic, I hadn’t started importing my old blogs to it yet, so it’s only content I’ve posted in the last couple of weeks. Quick and easy to backup.
# [matpacker] Fingers crossed!
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[pfefferle] Have you tried to deactivate all plugins, to be sure it is a wordpress/hosting problem?
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# [matpacker] [pfefferle] yep, deactivated plugins, removed plugins, purged caches for days, along with a whole load of things.
# [matpacker] long story short, it started 3-4 days ago when I couldn’t upload an image to my server using wordpress’ uploader. I could upload via sftp and view it though. No settings changes, no plugin updates, etc.
# [matpacker] I couldn’t upload any images.
# [matpacker] Yeh, had already been done by DreamPress/Host.
# [matpacker] Yeh, had DreamHost team on it, Jetpack’s team, and WordPress Premium support. No one could work it out. Tried a million different things.
# [matpacker] Ended up nuking the site.
# [matpacker] They did a fresh install, it auto-updated to 5.0.1, and now I can’t import my existing xml export, I can only add new content.
# [matpacker] I’ve suggested that it’s their 5.0.1 build, but they don’t believe that to be the cause
# [matpacker] Yeh, am just about to do it locally in mamp
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# [pfefferle] Can you install a WordPress by hand?
# [pfefferle] Or do you have to use the dreamhost installation?
# [matpacker] It’s on the DreamPress product, so they manage it, handle the server side, caching, etc.
# [matpacker] I’ve had to get them to fix up the auth headers before because they weren’t passing them through. If I knew how to manage a server better, I’d do it myself.
# [matpacker] Under normal circumstances, I’d agree with that sentiment. Unfortunately, I’ve got too many other commitments at the moment that I just don’t have the time
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# [matpacker] Support wise they’ve been reasonably quick, just haven’t been successful so far. And if it’s because of their eagerness to update to wp 5.0.1
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# [xavierroy] i'm on 5.0.1 on Dreamhost..
# [xavierroy] Iwhat should i try to see if i can reproduce your issue
# [matpacker] On your own server [xavierroy]? Or on DreamPress?
# [xavierroy] on my server
# [matpacker] I think that’s where the difference may be [xavierroy]. On the dreampress product they do some different caching configs amongst other things, so it’s probably not replicatable.
# [xavierroy] [matpacker] Hmm...
# [matpacker] Have tried straight from + Media in the top bar, have tried in a new post, have tried in an existing post, have tried Media > Library, and Media > New.
# [matpacker] Oh and in pages as well.
# [matpacker] Also had reported to them that my htaccess file had been randomly changing, losing 2 particular lines used to pass header auths through and that I was having to correct it about every 24-27 hours.
# [matpacker] On matpacker.blog, no, that actually works now. The current issue is that I can’t upload my export XML file. The previous stuff was from over the last 3-4 days, leading up to nuking the site today.
# [matpacker] Yeh, going to save that for a new project in 6 months or so, will learn to manage a server properly, myself.
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# [matpacker] Have been able to successfully import the xml file into wordpress running on mamp. And can import the images I couldn’t before.
# [matpacker] It can’t be anything but the server config
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[jgmac1106] most shared hosts have limits on the xml import size
# [jgmac1106] you may have to not do the whole enchilada, serve it up deconstructed, and try each piec...If you have years of data it is hell
# [jgmac1106] I tried so many different ways I am going to just add old WP site to subdomain and use a redirect plugin
# [jgmac1106] ....now a json export plugin where you could then repost to WP through a micropub client would be a really cool WP plugin
[kevinmarks], jgmac1106, [tantek], [jgmac1106] and [matpacker] joined the channel
# [matpacker] Morning
# [matpacker] Hey [jgmac1106], there’s maybe 50 posts on the site, nothing overly complex. It’s a 1.5mb file, they’ve increased all the limits, still can’t import up to DreamPress.
# [jgmac1106] ...hey I can never send a webmention...I can build the exact same bloig on the exact same shared host and have it work but nothing anyone can do makes it work on my site now
# [jgmac1106] <---walks away from WP...too constrained by the flexibility and need the creativity of my own knowledge handcuffing me
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# [matpacker] I get you [jgmac1106], I’ve been toying with the idea of serving up a static static site and just being done with wordpress and all that, it’s just kept getting put in the ‘too hard’ basket…
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[tantek] What are the most IndieWeb-friendly theme options on WordPress.com? I checked https://indieweb.org/WordPress.com but there is zero advice there on which Theme to pick / use for the best IndieWeb compatbility.
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "most IndieWeb-friendly theme options on WordPress.com" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "most IndieWeb-friendly theme options on WordPress.com is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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chrisaldrich tantek, if people have some patience and the money to afford self-hosting wordpress then they should definitely do that over wp.com
# chrisaldrich In fact, unless someone is just looking for free as their lodestar, then WordPress.com is a halfmeasure at best.
# [matpacker] You can’t IndieWeb on WordPress.com without buying into their VIP product where they will modify server configs and whatnot for you. On their Premium product you can POSSE, but you probably won’t get all the webmentions, nor can you tweak the themes enough to be compatible.
# chrisaldrich sempress is available on WordPress.com and that should work relatively well for mf2 mark up at least; Independent Publisher is probably the closest runner up for WordPress.com though some of the functionality and set up is different from the original since it's a fork.
# [matpacker] I will say the same about using DreamHosts managed WordPress product, DreamPress. Without getting them to intervene and modify the server config, your site cannot process authdiag headers.
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "authdiag header" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "authdiag header is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# chrisaldrich The trouble is that without upgrading significantly beyond the ~$14/year for your custom domain, you don't get native webmentions because you have to pay to get the ability to add either custom themes and/or plugins.
# chrisaldrich This means that most on WordPress.com aren't going to have the richer webmentions (though brid.gy does do a bootstrap method with wp.com that's similar to how kevinmarks has webmentions on his blogger site)
# [tantek] can you add that about sempress and Independent Publisher to https://indieweb.org/WordPress.com? perhaps a new subsection on "IndieWeb friendly Themes" ?
# [matpacker] Probably wrong terminology [tantek], when linking your site up with the p3k web services your site needs to be able to authorise with ownyourswarm, etc. and DreamHost strips the header authorisation that passes through.
# chrisaldrich they also won't be able to do the micropub or microsub stuff either.
# [matpacker] That’s what I thought, but doesn’t work that way on DreamPress.
# chrisaldrich To install plugins of any sort, you need to upgrade to their Business plan for $25/month at which point you should probably be paying for a managed WP product from someone else for half that price
# [matpacker] Its the passing of the tokens, doesn’t work through the https
# [matpacker] I think a good start would be to have a non-tech person definition of the IndieWeb, i.e. here’s how I joined the IndieWeb without any code knowhow…or something to that effect.
# chrisaldrich The trouble is the price differential and the functionality differential has generally been so high that no one has gone with a straight WP.com account to bother with testing it out.
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# [matpacker] I know enough to be dangerous, which is probably where I keep getting myself into trouble, but there needs to be a nice and easy point to get in. Which is probably just as simple as buying a domain name, setting up an account on WordPress.com, and then POSSE out from there.
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# [matpacker] That’s what I’m thinking [asuh], it’s the base level to IndieWeb-ing yourself
# [matpacker] Just resolved the upload issue, here’s what I just got back from DreamHost - Since our DreamPress servers don’t run FastCGI by default we
# [matpacker] had to make some custom changes and as a result there are some
# [matpacker] configurations missing from the vhost file. To resolve this I added a
# [matpacker] are currently working on an upgrade to Apache (we are still using Apache
# [matpacker] block of code to the vhost file that will allow you to upload again. We
# [matpacker] same time in the near future.
# [matpacker] 2.2 sadly) that will hopefully let you use HTTP auth and PHP-FPM at the
# [jgmac1106] [matpacker] my students can WP.com and webmention and have fun on the four dollar accounts.
# [jgmac1106] Just means you use standard post types and people can't follow an mf2 feed
# chrisaldrich I suspect that what we ought to do is split WordPress up into three pieces then: the .com (free from Automattic); managed hosting (including Automattic, DreamHost, SiteGround, BlueHost, WPEngine, etc.) with varying pricing options; and finally self-hosting
# [jgmac1106] They can do it for free but moving to pay to remove ads
# [jgmac1106] Those are the three logical steps but why people with self hosting skills are still on WordPress... has to be minority audience
# chrisaldrich each of the managed hosting options will have a variety of pros/cons for things like support, speed, cost, theme availability.
# [jgmac1106] Yes. As I do. I am agreeing and saying that is about 92.345%
# [jgmac1106] of WP users interested in IndieWeb
# chrisaldrich Most of the managed hosting options I've just looked at start at about $20/month and go up....
# [jgmac1106] WP.com needs a table what's possible at free/low tier, at next tier, and last tier... We just don't know who can test it.
# [jgmac1106] Free/low happy to say webmentions through Bridgy only, at highest tier it is SemPress
# [tantek] the frustration is that we don't have any docs for this on the /WordPress.com page
# chrisaldrich In part because so few have tried it. Most here regularly contributing have gone the higher route thus far.
# chrisaldrich I've got some sketches for doing just that already started and have been planning on trying to run some of those tests over the coming holiday.
# chrisaldrich Though naturally, I'm happy to have others help out...
# [tantek] [chrisaldrich] could you start a stub section on the /WordPress.com page accordingly? even just with your advice above?
# [matpacker] I’m planning on just using WordPress’ Publicize on managed DreamHost, I’ll document what I can’
# chrisaldrich looks like wp.com is now assigning free sites to example.home.blog instead of example.wordpress.com now. Interesting...
# chrisaldrich In fact, it looks like they've got the example.wordpress.com domains still available, but being given it as a possibility depends on choices made earlier in their decision tree.
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boffosocko.com edited /WordPress.com (+1407) "Stub outline for setting up WordPress.com" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /WordPress.com (+105) "incorporate top summary into a new Why section, How to setup is a stub section, now WebSub" (view diff)
# tantek.com edited /WordPress.com (+0) "/* Theme recommendations */ these were ordered in chat, so we should note that here" (view diff)
# [jgmac1106] editing it now
# [jgmac1106] [chrisaldrich] major price drops now as well
# [jgmac1106] they separated out two tiers of pricing
# [jgmac1106] could get way more wordpress.com now that it is 8 dollars a month top tier
# [jgmac1106] that is way cheaper than what used to 50
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# [chrisaldrich] Still need 25 tier for plugins though...
# [chrisaldrich] Or it looked that way
# [jgmac1106] yep, nevermind
# [jgmac1106] so doing three tiers, free, everything in between, and plugins at 25t
# [chrisaldrich] But better than 50
# [jgmac1106] with caveat that you can do shared hosting for less than that annually usually with better customer support...though I can't say that have no idea quality at custoemr support at that price point....they better wash your dog
# [jgmac1106] I jjust got stepped on so i don't know how to fix
# [jgmac1106] but what you wrote is fine Chris doesn't matter
# [chrisaldrich] Prices will always change (hopefully for the better) so some reasonable guidelines will help the cognitive load for the new commer.
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# [jgmac1106] yeah it told me my edits couldn't be saved for a conflict, we were saying same things
# [jgmac1106] [chrisaldrich] after holidays lets schedule a vHWC and bang out the getting started pages. I am holding off on the 2016-IndieWeb video series updates until David gwg finishes few more changes
# [jgmac1106] [chrisaldrich] my grades are submitted..Have one more holiday concert tonight but I could do an impromptu vHWC late your just to finally bang out the Getting Started Page...