#wordpress 2019-06-06

2019-06-06 UTC
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[xavierroy] [dshanske] if I'm using a post kinds read post, what would the author mapping be? Is there a different markup for the book author and the post author?
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GWG I'm not sure what you mean.
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GWG There is a box in response properties for the thing you are reading.
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[xavierroy] There seems to be a bug in that. The author field is not saved unless the author url field has an entry. Could you try if it is just me or a bug?
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[kimberlyhirsh] xavierroy I've had that problem too, just haven't gotten around to filing an issue
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GWG Will investigate and fix
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[tonz] [dshanske] David, I’ve been trying out the simple location plugin, and I notice that the URL it constructs e.g. https://maps.wikimedia.org/#/10/45.4656888/-73.7476701 has a / between the # and 10 of the zoom level. That makes it default to showing a global view without location. Is this a known behaviour, or shoud I submit a PR (where?)
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[tonz] issue I mean, not PR
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GWG Please submit an issue.
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GWG Even if someone tells me, it is easier for me, when making fixes, to check open issues for things I might have missed.
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[tonz] ok, filed an issue https://github.com/dshanske/simple-location/issues/116
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Loqi [tonzyl] #116 a / too many in the maps.wikipedia link
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GWG I put in Wikipedia Maps as a non API key alternative
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GWG I keep adding providers to Simple Location
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[tantek] it looks like some themes put "hfeed" on post permalink pages
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[tantek] has anyone here encountered themes that do this kind of thing on a permalink? <body class="hentry"><div class="hfeed"> ... ?
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[tantek] and how would one fix this?
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[tantek] I'm presuming the mf2 plugin would NOT be doing this (hence blaming the theme)
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[tantek] GWG help
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[chrisaldrich] Tantek, I'm reasonably sure we've seen poor use like that before. Don't recall what workarounds may have been, except to prefer a different feed type.
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[chrisaldrich] Whats the site Url?
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[tantek] different feed type? no this is about fixing permalink markup so you can send webmentions etc.
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[chrisaldrich] Ah, OK...
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[chrisaldrich] So you know what the theme is?
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[tantek] [chrisaldrich] the permalink URL is https://myravery.me/2019/06/06/indieweb-summit-portland/ - IDK what the theme is
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[chrisaldrich] S/so/do
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[tantek] but clearly this is something we should 1) fix, 2) document on /WordPress_troubleshooting
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[chrisaldrich] https://whatwpthemeisthat.com/
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[chrisaldrich] Looks like an Anders Noren theme. I've actually been talking to GWG about his work yesterday.
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[tantek] so how do we fix it? this theme seems to make it impossible for the Post Kinds Plugin to do its job
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[chrisaldrich] I'll see if I can find a repo to file against.
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[chrisaldrich] His themes are pretty popular.
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[chrisaldrich] Ravery looks like it has a variant of Hemingway which is one of the top 20 themes iirc.
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[chrisaldrich] I'm in the car atm, but will look when I'm back at my desk.
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[jgmac1106] Tantek yes and I tested this with both events and rsvps
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[tantek] so we may need some WP specific backcompat handling
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[tantek] because of this
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[jgmac1106] Rsvps easier on themes where I search all files for hentry and then delete and then add the mf2 plugin you are okay
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[jgmac1106] For events... Not in post kinds.. I had to hack on an event plugin... But I like that approach better than relying on GWG alone
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[jgmac1106] Would there be a way for parsers to say if this is a WordPress site (using a common url in header) ignore hentry?
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[tantek] worse
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[tantek] you have to ignore the top level hentry>hfeed>
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[tantek] or not ignore, skip over, and jump to the hentry directly inside
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[tantek] TBH this is something we could actually add to mf2 h-entry backcompat parsing
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[tantek] hentry>hfeed>h-entry treat as h-entry
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[tantek] instead of h-entry>h-feed>h-entry (which is what happens now)
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[tantek] possibly more general:
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[tantek] hentry>hfeed>h-* treat as h-*
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[tantek] lol * as bold in Slack
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[tantek] hentry>hfeed>h-x - treat as h-x
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[jgmac1106] ... And just encourage more native themes...but noone wants to switch themes... That's like moving houses but knowing it will be quite a fixer upper
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[tantek] correct. we need to fix this WITHOUT asking people to switch themes
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[tantek] ok there are two places we can fix this that don't require changes to wp/themes
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[jgmac1106] Could something be added to the mf2 plugin that can globally search and delete hfeed or hentry @gwg?
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[tantek] yeah that's an option we should consider
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[tantek] if that's implementable
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aaronpk What's the value of trying to handle mf1 stuff when there is also mf2 on the page? Maybe the backcompat improvement could be to ignore mf1 if any mf2 is on the page. Then new themes can add mf2 without issues and people can even paste mf2 into the html editor if they want
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[jgmac1106] [pfefferle] I know you no longer want to maintain or support the mf2 plugin but do you think it is possible? Can I plugin edit a theme that much?
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[jgmac1106] WP is also stripping mf from core... That may actually solve problem when it is done. Doesn't help anomalily now
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[jgmac1106] [grantcodes] you build WP sites and themes all day. What say you? What do you consider best approach?
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[tantek] We've spent years trying to make the hentry default in core "work" and there are just more and more examples of WPcore "hentry" mixing with embedded WPtheme markup/microformats failing in al sorts of new ways. The flaw is with splitting this markup across WPcore and WPthemes - that was the bad decision ages ago (in WP) that led us here
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[tantek] either WPcore should have handled the hentry completely (so it could be completely fixed there)
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[tantek] or delegated completely to WPthemes to handle, which would likely need a validator to get it right
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[jgmac1106] And since I don't know how wordpress works I had to file by file... Search and delete... Rinse and repeat... to remove hfeed and hentry interesting backcompat with vCard and h-card didn't mess up as muxh
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[grantcodes] I don't really understand the issue enough past "WordPress mf2 is bad" to have many suggestions for fixing it.
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[jgmac1106] Meant could a plugin or feature be added to plugin to search and delete the terms hfeed and hentry?
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boffosocko.com edited /WordPress/Themes (+857) "theme detectors" (view diff)
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[grantcodes] Depends how they're done but I doubt it. Otherwise I'm sure someone else would have done it by now
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boffosocko.com edited /WordPress (+127) "/* See Also */ WordPress Glossary" (view diff)
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GWG Catching up
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GWG One...dozens of themes do that hfeed thing.
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GWG I've gotten it out of some places, but too many to count still do
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GWG You can't strip the hfeed because it is in the theme file
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GWG The hentry is in core
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GWG The rule should be if a page has an hfeed and a single hentry it is an hentry
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GWG If it has an hfeed inside an hentry with no children, it should be ignored
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GWG So, the mf2 plugin adjusts core usage of hentry
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GWG I had an idea that might help
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GWG https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieweb/issues/138
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Loqi [dshanske] #138 Add MF2 site health check
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[pfefferle] It might be possible with ob_* on the rendered output... something like the following https://github.com/pubsubhubbub/wordpress-pubsubhubbub/blob/c17cf4269ab738ac3ca33fad76a587e425caba56/pubsubhubbub.php#L80
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GWG Interesting
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GWG Wonder if you can do that effectively
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GWG I think I would rather educate as well
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[pfefferle] GWG you have still not given up ☺ That is remarkable!
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GWG [pfefferle]: Have you?
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GWG I know you are focused on ActivityPub right now, but I think you are still trying too
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[pfefferle] Working on my mf2 themes, yes!
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GWG [pfefferle]: The diagnostic test I added to IndieAuth is a great educator
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GWG I think we need to add education to the admin for mf2
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GWG Indiewebify.me in a plugin
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[pfefferle] But this educates the user, not the theme developer
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[pfefferle] And that is not how this should work
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GWG "Tell your theme developer!"
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[pfefferle] Mf(2) should be ubiquitous for end users
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GWG Yoost called out hosting providers for old PHP to the user
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[pfefferle] That is a different thing
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[pfefferle] With a much higher audience
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[pfefferle] And a security impact
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GWG I know.
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GWG I am just saying users are the ones who don't know what to do
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[pfefferle] And shouldn‘t know
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[pfefferle] To be adopted by gen 3 and above it should work without any tech knowledge
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GWG Yes.
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GWG Hard problem
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GWG I want to figure out how to educate both sides
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GWG Tell the users ..x is the problem...
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GWG And offer solutions
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GWG Then offer more guides for developers
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[tantek] Educating users about bad themes is like educating people about bad food choices so they can make better ones (local, organic, etc.)
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[tantek] that consumer side pressure to help shift the production side
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[tantek] GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 89 karma in this channel over the last year (171 in all channels)
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chrisaldrich tantek, for the closer term, it looks like Miriam is hosted on wp.com and using their Hemingway Rewritten theme: https://wordpress.com/theme/hemingway-rewritten
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chrisaldrich They haven't pushed any updates to that theme since Sept 2017, and I suspect it's unlikely that they would probably do much now.
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chrisaldrich The issue is the hfeed being specifically added in the header.php file on that theme.
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chrisaldrich I don't see an easy repository to push issues to, so the next closest thing is to file a generic issue here: https://en.forums.wordpress.com/forum/themes/
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[tantek] I disagree. I think if a paying WordPress customer asked them to push an update for a theme they're using, they would strongly consider it
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[tantek] ah that's a different problem. where can one file pull requests for fixing Hemingway Rewritten?
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[tantek] what is Hemingway Rewritten
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Hemingway Rewritten" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Hemingway Rewritten is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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chrisaldrich I completely agree with you on that score, but given that they don't seem to have updated that theme in ages...
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[tantek] Hemingway Rewritten is a WordPress Theme that is one of the options on [[Wordpress.com]] https://wordpress.com/theme/hemingway-rewritten which has markup issues including errantly marking up post permalinks with an empty mf1 hentry and nested empty mf1 hfeed, which causes problems with sending meaningful Webmentions like [[RSVP]]s.
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Loqi ok
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[tantek] what is WordPress Troubleshooting
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Loqi WordPress Troubleshooting is a list of things one can try when asking for help from the WordPress Outreach Club https://indieweb.org/WordPress_Troubleshooting
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[tantek] WordPress Troubleshooting << If you are using the [[Hemingway Rewritten]] theme and sending webmentions (like RSVP posts) is not working, you might be running into the problem of that theme having errant empty mf1 hentry and nested empty hfeed at the root of post permalink pages.
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Loqi ok, I added "If you are using the [[Hemingway Rewritten]] theme and sending webmentions (like RSVP posts) is not working, you might be running into the problem of that theme having errant empty mf1 hentry and nested empty hfeed at the root of post permalink pages." to the "See Also" section of /WordPress_Troubleshooting https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=62175&oldid=50337
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[tantek] continuing from the thread on RSVPing on WordPress here: https://chat.indieweb.org/microformats/2019-06-06#t1559848612277300
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Loqi [[tantek]] aaronpk, why not the https://indieweb.org/rsvp#How_to_RSVP_with_WordPress instructions?
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[tantek] in particular, if the existing WordPress-specific RSVP instructions are problematic, we should fix those, not steer WordPress users towards other instructions
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[tantek] "those instructions require plugins" is a problem
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[tantek] thus we should provide WordPress-specific RSVP that do not require plugins
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[grantcodes] 🤔 probably rediculous mf2 idea: If the mf2 data was inside a hidden element outside of the mf1 hentry would that fix stuff.
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[grantcodes] Wouldn't work if the html or body element had the mf1 class though
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