#wordpress 2019-06-07

2019-06-07 UTC
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[jgmac1106] Grant search this channel for rel="alternate" there is even an expirmental plugin
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GWG I should work on that plugin again
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Loqi definitely
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GWG I am always jumping projects
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GWG I need to figure out location presentation in RSS feeds
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GWG Most Post Kinds are rendering fine without much changing
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[grantcodes] [jgmac1106] Yeah I know about the rel=alternate thing but that requires parser updates, I think my idea would work with existing parsers
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jgmac1106 I see so it would skip the hentry and you would have a post below?
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[grantcodes] Basically remove as many mf classes as possible and then stick a hidden element with everything as the first or last child of the body element. It would probably fix the anomalily example at least from my quick test
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[grantcodes] Even without removing other mf2 I got a valid rsvp - but it was along with the other one that doesn't work. Probably need someone who understands parsers better than me to look for issues in this idea
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[grantcodes] Hmm but adding the hidden mf2 element to the myravery.me example doesn't look like it works as well because like I said, it has h-entry on the body class. But that could probably be removed via a plugin
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sknebel [grantcodes]: yes, a hidden post has been suggested - as you discovered mf1 on the body is a potential issue, as could be mf1 that parses just well enough that the consumer gets confused what the right post is
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sknebel (I don't think you could stick it on the head with valid HTML)
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[grantcodes] Yes sknebel, I also thought about the head, but yeah don't think it is valid.
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[grantcodes] Testing it for anomilily I got the 2 posts like you said.
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[grantcodes] I think it *might* be possible for the plugin to fix most of the issues though by removing classes. I was testing by just adding html, not removing anything
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[grantcodes] I did try a really dumb idea of a template element in the head but doesn't work with parsers
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sknebel Parsers are clever enough to know not to look into template elements
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jgmac1106 wonder if this would work: https://wordpress.org/plugins/real-time-find-and-replace/
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Loqi [Marios Alexandrou] Description This plugin allows you to dynamically (i.e. at the time when a page is generated) replace code and text from themes and other plugins with code and text of your choosing before a page is delivered to a user’s browser. Because the find ...
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jgmac1106 if I search for hentry and replace with h-entry before the page gets rendered
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jgmac1106 here is another: https://www.cminds.com/wordpress-plugins-library/search-and-replace-plugin-for-wordpress/#description
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jgmac1106 have my brother’s wedding this weekend so won’t be able to play but when I get back next week I will try, when I did this manually everythign worked fine
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[grantcodes] That first plugin just does an output buffer of the entire page and does find and replace. I'm not sure but I feel there might be potential conflicts with that method.
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[tantek] note that the myravery example has several (I think all the "recommended") plugins installed and running, including the mf2 plugin
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[tantek] so I presume that's what's sticking the h-entry class name on body
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[tantek] therefore it is better to "fix" that plugin rather than try to patch that with yet another plugin
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[tantek] One minimal approach would be to figure out what fixes need to be made to mf2 plugin for it to work with known popular themes, such that it enables the Post Kinds plugin to do all the correct markup
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[jgmac1106] Yes it is. I was just searching for plugins to remove css selectors, or find and replace. I just have to remove all hentry before the mf2 plugin works with parsers... Just throwing spaghetti at wall trying to find hack for first step
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[jgmac1106] The mf2 plugin also no longer has a maintainer. Need community involvement on that one
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[tantek] if the mf2 plugin is putting h-entry on the body along with hentry - that's ok and the actual problem is the errant hfeed (added by the theme?) and the *extra* h-entry (added by Post Kinds? can Post Kinds detect that <body> already has h-entry and not be redundant?)
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[jgmac1106] Was hoping if [grantcodes] or @gwg knew if some filter could be added to mf2 or post kinds to remove hentry and hfeed
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] is that reflected on the wiki page for the mf2 plugin?
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[jgmac1106] Dunno. Will check if I have time before leaving
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[tantek] Thank you
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[tantek] Additionally it would be good to remove it from the list of "recommended plugins" until it has a maintainer that can address these critical issues
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[tantek] what is Getting Started With WordPress
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Loqi By using WordPress on your own domain, you are already a part of the IndieWeb. Below are some suggestions to help you get started with upgrading your WordPress site to support IndieWeb philosophies https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_with_WordPress
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[tantek] the definition could use minor improvement. the Overview needs a complete rewrite (e.g. WordPress users probably don't care about the IndieWeb notion of "generations") and I don't know what is accurate after that or not. https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_on_WordPress#Overview
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[tantek] I am interested in helping improve this page, would anyone here like to collaborate on this?
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GWG Post Kinds never adds an h-entry
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GWG It marks up mf2 properties inside an h-entry, not the h-entry itself
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[pfefferle] As I mentioned yesterday, the only possibility to remove the hfeed is by something like that: https://github.com/pubsubhubbub/wordpress-pubsubhubbub/blob/c17cf4269ab738ac3ca33fad76a587e425caba56/pubsubhubbub.php#L80
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[pfefferle] because hfeed is mainly added to the source code without using a filter
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[pfefferle] hentry could be removed via filter
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GWG I think the first step is to explain the problem
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[pfefferle] but this breaks mf1
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GWG On the getting started page and plugin
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[pfefferle] and the mf2 plugin does not always add proper mf2
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[pfefferle] GWG I always wanted to mention this, because it was discussed above
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GWG So, what do you suggest we do that is the most impactful?
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GWG The problem is a clear plan
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[pfefferle] nothing new… I would remove the mf2 plugin and invest in the mf2-feed
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GWG I can get on board with that
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GWG Unless a new maintainer steps up
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[tantek] pfefferle++ that's exactly the kind of thing I was looking for!
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Loqi pfefferle has 24 karma in this channel over the last year (30 in all channels)
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[tantek] at the risk of regretting this, what are the responsibilities for being a maintainer of the mf2 plugin?
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[tantek] pfefferle I agree with you re: the mf2-feed for the following / subscribing use-case
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[tantek] the challenge here is with Webmention receiver parsing of WordPress post permalinks, like an RSVP post
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[tantek] which make me think it is still worth adding this kind of a "cleaner" to the mf2 plugin, specifically to clean-up post permalink pages
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GWG I have some work to do there too
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GWG The feed plugin is supported by webmentions
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[tantek] GWG, maybe you could show me (at Summit? or right before?) how to setup maintenance of mf2 plugin to see if I have a chance of hacking something
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[tantek] would you be willing to be a reviewer / tester if I tried to maintain it? I feel this is something that requires async pairing
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[jgmac1106] I am willing to set up the top 5 free themes and run them through parsers with mf2 on and off if that helps.. And then repeat as you work... It isnt a unit test but if it helps bout all I could do
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[jgmac1106] Still just need to figure out to remove the hfeed and hentry or Tantek you thinking parallel work on parsers to ignore?
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] that would be a huge help. I have the general coding ability (especially with text / markup mashing / mixing / shredding), but would be lost with anything WordPress setup/testing related.
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] I want to pursue multiple solutions in parallel
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[jgmac1106] Okay...first thing next week. I also have an events plugin ready to go.. But takes manual removal of hfeed
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[jgmac1106] Or if this traffic keeps up on I-95 the next few hours
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[tantek] plugin(s) improvement(s) would help some folks at least as a quick(er) stopgap, however longer term we need non-plugin fixes since installing plugins is not available (time/expertise) or possible (hosted services) to all WP users
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[jgmac1106] [pfefferle] new theme getting great reviews and removal of microformats is in overall WP.org roadmap... That will help in a way when it happens
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[jgmac1106] Events is the only thing I would keep as plugin...i could never build the calendar UI and venue UI, either publishing or consuming
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[tantek] maybe. or it's possible markup will be further messed up since there is more of a focus now on React than on semantic markup
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[jgmac1106] Striping mf2 and adding mf2 was relatively straightforward
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[jgmac1106] Oops meant mf
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[jgmac1106] Funny thing is at PressEdConf they did a survey. Not one person who attended online moved to Gutenberg or didn't install Classic Editor
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[jgmac1106] Have some time... And then @grantcodes will do Gutenberg/React magic
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[chrisaldrich] tantek, on the revision of the WP getting started page, I've taken some work [jgmac1106] started and done some reworking that's living here as a draft of a complete rewrite of the page: https://indieweb.org/User:Boffosocko.com/wordpress-draft
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[chrisaldrich] I hope to finish it up before the summit, but it's there if you want to work on it..
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[tantek] [chrisaldrich] did you give up on incremental improvements then?
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[tantek] I'm usually not a big fan of complete rewrites since it tends to be a bit community-abrasive/harsh (tossing out others's work completely)
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[chrisaldrich] I think that page still has some incremental work being done still...
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[tantek] also the problem you point out - waiting a while for a rewrite - stalls/disincentivizes incremental fies
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[chrisaldrich] I took that page, [jgmac1106]'s page, and some other pieces, so nothing is really being "thrown out".... just easier to move big pieces around; the draft page also has sections for things that originally existed that will need to be moved
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[chrisaldrich] the current page is a bit more dev focused and could be repurposed as a dev/getting started page
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[chrisaldrich] so the rewrite will really be a "new" page with a new focus and the old page will be moved and still useful.
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[chrisaldrich] hopefully both will be easier to maintain going forward
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[tantek] interesting. yes a dev-focused getting started with WP page will be good too
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[tantek] [chrisaldrich] is it possible for you to start incrementally merging your changes into the top of the existing page?
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[tantek] and then getting folks to help with reviewing just one piece at a time?
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[tantek] even the dfn is something that could be improved, then the Overview, etc. without having to fix it all up at once
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