#wordpress 2019-10-10

2019-10-10 UTC
Oclair, dougbeal|, [schmarty], [dmitshur], gRegorLove and [Rose] joined the channel
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[Rose] The good news is I plan to work on my own theme at Brighton, so I can document as I go.
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GWG I look forward to seeing a new one
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GWG I need to update my blog post on the matter, as I have learned a lot since I wrote that
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[tonz] Anyone here posting in WP in multiple languages and marking up posts for language?
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[Michael_Beckwit can't say yes [tonz] but i'm not multi-lingual either. At best, piglatin 😄
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[tantek] what is language
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Loqi language may refer to human (or natural) languages or computer (often programming) languages https://indieweb.org/language
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[tantek] [tonz] see linked page: https://indieweb.org/multilingual_blogging 🙂
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[tantek] what is multiple languages
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "multiple languages" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "multiple languages is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] multiple languages is /multilingual_blogging
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Loqi ok
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beko[m] <[tonz] "Anyone here posting in WP in mul"> let me know if you find a way to mark posts for languages that plays nice with post-kinds and alike [tonz] . Really looking for something simple that let's me set this _by post_ and not mess up the whole website and it's treams. Not looking to seperate things but I'd like to have semantic lang tag set correct. The major plugins all fail on that. too many features.
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beko[m] s/treams/streams/
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[grantcodes] I only found one multilingual plugin I liked. I think it was called polylang. No idea if it would work with indieweb plugins though
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beko[m] Nope. This one supresses other languages. So if I get the occasional 1 in 20 the website becomes pretty bleak. This one is at least able to not mess up all the links for "main lang".
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beko[m] It also won't allow to use the categories of the main language. I'd have to add new categories for each. Mapping the categories of the main language is a pro feature and the costs are in no way justifiable since I don't want this split at all ☹️
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[pfefferle] [chrisbergr] is posting in multilanguage
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[chrisbergr] Yep, I'm using polylang (free). The pro feature that I cant have the same slug for taxonomies in different languages is sad, but in my case (german, english) I can handle it 🙂
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[chrisbergr] The only thing I don't like is the lack of possibility to write a post without language definition, so that the post will be displayed in all languages. e.g. why should I post a "picture only post" 2 times? Maybe I'll do a little extension someday,.. But that's pretty low on my list.
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GWG I looked into multiple languages just out of curiosity and the support is not consistent
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GWG I think it may be a core goal
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GWG Morning, by the way
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beko[m] morning
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Loqi good morning
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beko[m] don't even want to write two posts for different languages at all. It's either this or the other. Never both.
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GWG But a lot comes with that.
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GWG I want to subscribe only to your posts in one language, for example.. how would I go about that?
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beko[m] bad luck I guess. It's not worth the hassle for me and auto translations work fair enough nowadays. So yeah you're either lucky and understand both or simply ignore the fraction of the posts you don't understand.
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beko[m] It's the same with Twitter or Mastodon. Won't maintain several profiles.
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GWG I am more outlining the need for better solutions
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beko[m] I did consider tagging it via categories.
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beko[m] that'd render specific categories less useful tho
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GWG A custom taxonomy could work
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GWG [pfefferle]: By the way, what do you want to do about the issue you mentioned with the remaining webmention PR?
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[chrisbergr] @beko[m] Of course, different Twitter profiles for different languages is extreme. But that also depends on the readers. Germans who understand english is relatively simple. For example I follow netanyahu. If he twitters in Hebrew, I am completely out.
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[chrisbergr] And on the website it also depends on the target group. Tech-savvy people can usually speak English. But if I want to publish contributions that are relevant for my family and my environment, it is absolutely necessary to translate them into German.
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GWG I am more thinking of identifying the language so my reader can handle it
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[Rose] Also worth considering: a photo post with some text in German may well still be relevant to an English speaking audience, etc.
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beko[m] GWG: not following.. lang tag is parsed by microformats isn't it? So my solution would be setting this correctly so readers could offer auto translate
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beko[m] [chrisbergr]: true that. same reason here [beside beeing lazy sometimes]
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[chrisbergr] True. My plan is to have every single text translated in german and englisch, except for the replies to other posts (post kind reply)
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[tantek] There’s an issue to parse Lang and included it in the mf2 JSON
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beko[m] Hm. auto detect language work fine too. Okuna implemented such a feature (3rd party) that does a good job. Forgot what lib is used but it's a safe bet that it's some SaaS solution.
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[tonz] I recognise a lot from what is said here. I post in 3 languages, two of them infrequently. Those two have a separate category I use, so I can also provide a single language overview for them. English is the default and not currently explicitly marked. I’ve used multilingual WP plugins in the past, still do for my company’s site, but as mentioned it assumes replication of posts across languages, and taxonomies etc. My main hoped for gain
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[tonz] having a machine discoverable language is it allows some feedreaders to automatically provide translation links. I have readers that use machine translation for my non-english posts.
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[tonz] My current set-up, having language categories, already make it possible to, based on category, insert a translation link into my feed items (but I haven’t done that yet)
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GWG I understand there is markup.. but are people marking? And WordPress specifically doesn't have automatic markup... which is what I was thinking about
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GWG I always think about tools
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beko[m] I'd simply like to mark it and leave it to the reader what to do with it. A dropdown would be enough [for me]. The lang tag seems to be a good place for this. It does not work good for the feed tho since language is only added to the channel and not to it's items 😕 This is, of course, WordPress related and does not take MicroPub into account. So yeah, just my tiny corner case
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GWG That's why I was suggesting a taxonomy for language. It can display as a drop-down and WordPress can handle the rest
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GWG It would generate separate feeds, etc
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beko[m] for this the existing plugins are fine already. You'd just have to use different users for default lang.
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[chrisbergr] Yes David, that would be great. This is pretty much the case if you're using polylang and write a new post. But built in into core would be so much better.
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GWG Multilingual support is supposedly Gutenberg phase 4
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[chrisbergr] And the current phase is 1?
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GWG 2
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GWG Also I have stayed away from Gutenberg
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[chrisbergr] I guess everybody knows your thoughts about Gutenberg 🙂
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beko[m] tbf I have such thoughts about WordPress itself 😆 That's what you get for beeing an early adopter. I'm stuck with it cuz I'm to lazy to break out.
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GWG Well, I foresee I will have to break down and do something eventually
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GWG I just honestly think it is overkill for writing a note, for example
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GWG I don't need blocks for 95% of what I do
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beko[m] no worries. I got the switcher plugins so when I feel to do fancy adda I use Gutenberg and switch back to editor tweaking post-kinds settings 😁
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GWG I have too much to do to worry about it now
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GWG Lots of plugins to maintain
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beko[m] I wouldn't even currently. Seriously. I checked it out and it's like programming JS ~4 years ago. They still have a lot to catch up. There will be changes.
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beko[m] may be different it it's your job, oc. 🙂 in that case you'd have to keep up.
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GWG I am in the midst of a big Simple Location update
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GWG It isn't
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GWG My job has nothing to do with programming at all
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beko[m] makes your plugins even mor awesome 😉
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beko[m] +e
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GWG Any suggestions on the Simple Location side?
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beko[m] Not from me. I just loaded the plugin a week ago and didn't play with it yet. I can tell you tho that I do not like locations from pictures. In fact I use `mogrify -strip` before I even upload. That may be fine as a choice, of course.
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[JHSheridan] Hi everyone... I'm just getting ready to officially launch my indieweb wordpress site with an intro post outlining why I chose the indieweb. I think I'm only going to POSSE to Twitter (which will then duplicate to mastodon), but I'd like to backfeed some of my Instagram posts. I don't care about importing comments or likes or anything. I just want to grab my stuff from there and post it on my site. Anyone have an easy way to backfeed
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[JHSheridan] instagram to WP?
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[Rose] You could try self hosting ownyourgram
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[Rose] what is ownyourgram
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Loqi OwnYourGram.com is a service which streams your Instagram photos to your own site in real-time https://indieweb.org/OwnYourGram
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[Rose] Instagram has been blocking requests unfortunately.
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[chrisbergr] Sorry David, I haven't worked with Simple Location either. I don't think that will happen until December.
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[JHSheridan] [Rose] yeah... I was going to PESOS from ownyourgram originally, but not that they're cracking down, I'm assuming that's only gonna get worse, so I'm just gonna leave it all together
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[JHSheridan] now*** that they're cracking down
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[JHSheridan] So I think I'm just gonna to one big backfeed, then post on my own site moving forward... POSSE those posts to twitter and just leave instagram behind
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GWG beko[m]: I save location from pictures into the attachment. It doesn't display on the post. However, I have an issue about doing something with it as an option
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GWG No rush. Next plugin I am giving love to is Micropub... though hoping to continue with webmention as well
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beko[m] no worries as well. I strip it out before. What's not there can not leak. That's the tech savy variant though
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[grantcodes] I can give you a micropub request GWG (although I don't know how much is already supported or how much work it would be)
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[grantcodes] If it supported a wide set of the experimental query stuff you could almost use together as the CMS and never need to touch Gutenberg 😛
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bekoDiscord[m] Ping
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Loqi pong
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beko[m] Ping
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Loqi pong
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bekoDiscord[m] Hm… Discord-Matrix bridge seems to have issues. Replies from Matrix (and thus IRC bridge) don't show. Writing from Discord seems to work.
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swedneck1 test
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swedneck[GMT1]Di test back
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beko[m] ping
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Loqi pong
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bekoDiscord[m] really odd. seeing no ping and no pong here. Your test showed fine tho swedneck [GMT+1]
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swedneck[GMT1]Di not entirely sure what you mean
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swedneck[GMT1]Di did you test between discord and IRC?
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bekoDiscord[m] nope. there's a bot that replies with a pong when you send a ping. This works fine when using Matrix. We had a lot of discussion in here today and basically nothing shows up on Discord beside your test now since ~ 9 GMT+1
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swedneck[GMT1]Di 🤔
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swedneck[GMT1]Di lemme check the systemd service for the bridge i guess
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bekoDiscord[m] lemme reload my Discord xD
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swedneck[GMT1]Di on which platform is the bot?
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bekoDiscord[m] no idea, not mine
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swedneck[GMT1]Di anything on IRC is entirely subject to matrix.org shitting itself
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bekoDiscord[m] Well _my_ stuff didn't appear as well. Using Matrix.
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swedneck[GMT1]Di you use matrix.org i presume?
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bekoDiscord[m] I do
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swedneck[GMT1]Di let's take this to #offtopic
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[Rose] Loqi is an IRC not
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[Rose] *bot
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[Rose] Who is Loqi
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Loqi Loqi is a friendly and useful bot/digital therapist present in the IndieWeb discussion channels https://indieweb.org/User:Loqi.me
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[arush] Morning/afternoon all.
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GWG Hi, [arush]
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[Will_Monroe] Hello, I have a question for those of you who use feed readers. As a new indieweb practitioner (gen2+ you could say), I am intrigued by tools like Indigenous and Alltogethernow.io. But my track record using and troubleshooting these tools is mixed. Sometimes, I lose my authentication to the microsub server for reasons that are a little hard for me to troubleshoot.
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[Will_Monroe] I have a self-hosted WP site with the Indieweb plugins that is working well. But I find it challenging to have my blog/feed reading stopped cold by something I did or didn't do. Do you feel that the integration of reading/commenting in one tool (e.g., Indigenous) worth the effort? If so, I'd love to hear why you feel that way.
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GWG I think being an early adopter is hard sometimes
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GWG But I find one click overcomes my tendency to talk myself out of posting
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[Rose] I personally use monocle for my reading, it’s been stable and I like the UI
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GWG I participated in the Yarns plugin, so I want that to succeed
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[Rose] Change of topic (not to say we should not continue yours Will!): How do people feel about “by default I would like this post type to appear in this category?“, as in, something you can override but if you don’t specify a category then something in WP (maybe an extension to the micropub client) categorises it for you?
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GWG I avoid categories most of the time
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aaronpk i do that! not in wordpress tho
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GWG But for people who use them, why not
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[Rose] I like categories
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[Rose] I am trying to figure out if this would be best as a series of settings in MicroPub or something else.
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GWG I often use tags
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GWG I would say it depends on the UI
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[Rose] That would be another possibility
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[tantek] what's the point of a default category?
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[tantek] use-case, expectations, why is it useful etc.
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[Rose] what is taxonomy
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Loqi taxonomy is an explicitly curated, often designed, set of categories or labels, often hierarchical as well, in contrast to the folksonomy of tags and hashtags https://indieweb.org/taxonomy
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GWG Post Kinds is essentially that, by the way. A taxonomy for post types in WordPress
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[tantek] (goes beyond WordPress IMO)
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[Rose] Let’s start at the top 😛
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[tantek] I'm more of a folksonomy person myself
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[tantek] by default, uncategorized
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[Rose] Post kinds, that’s the the plugin I was thinking of
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[tantek] I mean if you need a category you can call it "Uncategorized" 😄
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[Rose] I changed my “uncategorized” to “everything”
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[tantek] so that's literally the default in search anyway so why bother with an explicit category for it?
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[tantek] feels like noise in the UI
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[Rose] I didn’t like that uncategorized was showing up
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[Rose] Which I’m sure I can fix.
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aaronpk that's more a problem with wordpress displaying "uncategorized" instead of not displaying that
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GWG I filter uncategorized in my themes
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[Rose] I will too.
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[Rose] Aaron why do you auto categorise?
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[Rose] (and maybe for general discussion we should move to the general channel?)
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aaronpk sure
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[Will_Monroe] [dshanske] [Rose] thank you for those thoughts. [dshanske] I will keep the ease of one-click posting in mind as I try to troubleshoot my setup 👍
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[Rose] Will what kind of errors have you run into? Are you using the Yarns plugin?
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[Will_Monroe] [Rose] I'm using Aperture will Alltogether or Indigenous. Usually works well!
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[Rose] I’m using Aperture too! Are you hosting your own?
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[Will_Monroe] Didn't even know that was possible!
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[Rose] It’s not the easiest, but it’s doable. I plan to play with the Yarns plugin at some point
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[Rose] That’s much easier for DIY
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[grantcodes] I need to try and get some converts from monocle to together 😛 it's pretty stable now and has quite a few more features
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aaronpk [grantcodes]: i would use it more but it still loads content slower than monocle does!
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aaronpk it does look very nice now though!
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[grantcodes] 🤷‍♂️ I mainly assume that's because aperture and monocle are on the same server? Together has to do 2 jumps (this is probably more general chat though)
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