#wordpress 2021-12-27
2021-12-27 UTC
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[tw2113_Slack_] hmm
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[pfefferle] Sorry, but it still feels a bit hacky
# [pfefferle] I understand your ideas, but it still does not feel like a taxonomy… at least semantically…
# [pfefferle] Christmas holidays 🎄
# [pfefferle] Yes, but only to have an attribution
# [tw2113_Slack_] it's probably best as meta of some sort
# [tw2113_Slack_] whether it be post -> term -> term meta
# [tw2113_Slack_] or post -> post meta
# [pfefferle] And it sounds very Micropub specific
# [pfefferle] Hey [tw2113_Slack_] 👋
# [pfefferle] Happy Christmas btw.
# [tw2113_Slack_] good day sir
# [tw2113_Slack_] and to you
# [tw2113_Slack_] core abuses post types way more than this is abusing potential post types
# [pfefferle] Yes, but post types
# [pfefferle] It can make sense in the Micropub case, but is that the classic one? What about other API requests? Does it still work that way?
# [tw2113_Slack_] this is risking...what? a handful of meta keys per post?
# [tw2113_Slack_] every ecommerce solution should be using their own tables, and many have been moving that direction which is great. but they're still leaving previous content behind thus far for legacy reasons
# [tw2113_Slack_] I'm still fine with this being a taxonomy term status
# [tw2113_Slack_] we're haggling over microoptimizations
# [pfefferle] It is all about migration… this change breaks backwards compatibility and the next change may do it again…
# [pfefferle] But what about the UI to invalidate tokens?
# [tw2113_Slack_] do those invalidate on their own with time?
# [pfefferle] You are very pragmatic ☺
# [pfefferle] How will Micropub add the taxonomy?
# [pfefferle] Using WordPress taxonomy features?
# [pfefferle] Or to ask more concrete: what about a user that does not use indieauth will Micropub still work?
# [pfefferle] No, oauth is ☺
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[chrisaldrich] (not having looked at code), but is there also facility for micropub clients with edit capability being able to change it? That is, I make a post with OmniBear, but later re-edit it with Quill as an example? This is probably an edge case down the line as I don't think there are many client with editing capability and it's not a common pattern (yet). Does this have any bearing on the form/structure/storage?
# [pfefferle] It would work with the tax idea
# [pfefferle] You can add both then
# [pfefferle] Is it directly a dependency? Doesn‘t it work with indielogin.org any more?
# [pfefferle] Yes
# [tw2113_Slack_] good day [chrisaldrich]
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# [arush] hi all, and merry Christmas to all who are celebrating!
# [tw2113_Slack_] welcome to the taxonomy party [arush]
# [pfefferle] Hmmm
# [pfefferle] Feels like a Micropub feature then
# [pfefferle] But the taxonomy only makes sense in the MP case
# [chrisaldrich] Happy taxonomy day. Happy boxing day. 🎁
# [arush] yay taxonomies! i just spent a huge chunk of time working on a site with a ton of custom taxonomies with Advanced Custom Fields as a dependency. And speaking of, i have some additions to the post kinds plugin i should probably submit. Will do so once i get them cleaned up because they're a result of experiments.
# [tw2113_Slack_] [chrisaldrich] what taxonomy would "boxing" relate to? 😄
# [tw2113_Slack_] celebration types?
# [chrisaldrich] don't muddy the holiday waters [tw2113_Slack_] 😁
# [tw2113_Slack_] holidays?
# [tw2113_Slack_] zing
# [pfefferle] I am chalking that, because I still am a friend of keeping the plug-ins independent…
# [pfefferle] Not chalking… challenging
# [tw2113_Slack_] background noise for non-Auth discussion: anyone else use Custom Post Type UI for their content types? cause I'm the main dev there and open to feedback
# [pfefferle] And that is why it feels wrong in my eyes… the taxonomy only makes sense for MP and not to store general post/page independent client infos
# [pfefferle] ↩️ I do not have custom post types yet ☺
# [chrisaldrich] [tw2113_Slack_] Are there any broad canonical CPT set ups for reviews or recipes (maybe books) (for proper h- level microformats) the way that Jetpack has portfolios?
# [pfefferle] If you use a custom post type to store the access token it could make sense again 😂
# [tw2113_Slack_] not that I'm aware of [chrisaldrich] other than genericly named types. CPTUi doesn't delete content at all, so it'd be pretty easy to migrate between.
# [tw2113_Slack_] given that this topic is registered on the fly and at runtime, last one registered, only one used
# [pfefferle] I hate WP for not having an extensible DB system
# [tw2113_Slack_] ↩️ well i hope you consider us in the future. All support goes through me, so you know you're in good company 🙂
# [arush] I've used CpTuI on a couple projects, but prefer to organize CpTs and related stuff in their own plugins. Makes it all easier to find if i need to reuse.
# [pfefferle] Using given tables feels hacky so often
# [arush] i like the plugin though for quick and dirty CpTs that i know i'm never going to touch again.
# [tw2113_Slack_] i fully accept that for some users, we are code generators for quick copy/paste [arush] 🙂
# [arush] CPTUI stupid keyboard is acting up again.
# [pfefferle] So maybe I have to sleep over it… it is getting really late…
# [tw2113_Slack_] sweats
# [pfefferle] Yea, not that much time/motivation lately
# [pfefferle] Sorry 😢
# [pfefferle] I hope it comes back
# [tw2113_Slack_] No pressure on me, only 9,568,310 total all time downloads, and 1,000,000+ active isntalls for CPTUI
# [tw2113_Slack_] I'm no Yoast SEO, but that's still a lot of pressure for a mostly singular developer for a plugin 😄
# [pfefferle] I plan an IndieAuth slot at the CloudFest Hackathon… I maybe need some feedback from you folks…
# [pfefferle] Not indieauth… indieweb…
# [tw2113_Slack_] whatever helps the independent web!
# [pfefferle] I hope to motivate some contributors
# [pfefferle] Or find someone to pay me to do it full time 😂
# [tw2113_Slack_] [pfefferle] if i ever win the lottery, specifically multi-million, i'm on it
# [tw2113_Slack_] 70k/year minimum
# [tw2113_Slack_] USD
# [pfefferle] Could you think about quitting your day job for that [dshanske] ?
# [tw2113_Slack_] i often postulate if I won the lottery, I'd pay myself to work full time on the products area of my current dayjob with minimal paycheck from employer
# [tw2113_Slack_] not really a $1/year salary, still something 4-5 digit but you know
# [pfefferle] My problem is, that I have so little time for Open Source atm. so I see no other chance 😢
# [pfefferle] And then there is also Home Automation and WordPress contribution and …
# [tw2113_Slack_] given the log4j? debacle, there's definitely some sectors of open source that should probably have a payment basis
# [pfefferle] Oh don‘t mention log4j!
# [pfefferle] That burned a lot of time in my Dayton!
# [pfefferle] Dayjob
# [tw2113_Slack_] all my personal sites are on nginx, yet at times i wonder if i'm still not doing enough
# [pfefferle] I am German… we invested GDPR 😂
# [pfefferle] Invented
# [pfefferle] „Datenschutzgrundverordnung“
# [tw2113_Slack_] thank you for all the extra noise popups that everyone blindly clicks okay on
# [pfefferle] 😂
# [tw2113_Slack_] the second worst thing about the internet: cookies. the first worst thing about the internet: having to authorize them
# [pfefferle] Time to sleep now… nice to read you all after along time
# [pfefferle] 👋
# [tw2113_Slack_] night night
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GWG [tw2113_Slack_]: What do you think of https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieauth/issues/232
# [tw2113_Slack_] reviewing
# [arush] @gwg I totally hear you on indecision on how to move forward. Somethings I noticed on the custom tax project, since it also involved a ton of custom fields, was that custom tax and custom field are two features that seem to be getting the short end in this new block world. And that's going to turn out badly for even moderately complex sites, to say nothing of plugins that rely on these two things, which is tons of them.
# [arush] @gwg I was reading a post the other day on the Tavern about post formats with the new editor by Justin Tadlock which essentially landed on "give users as much control as possible over the templating of post formats,' which is great, except mF2 is a lot like accessibility in that the markup has to remain correct in order for things to work properly, so iMHO not a great idea to turn it all over. And yeah, comments too but I didn't
# [arush] work with those much.
# [tw2113_Slack_] oh post formats, when Tumblr was thought to be a threat
# [tw2113_Slack_] at least they pushed all the way through with Wix threats and page builders *COUGH COUGH GUTENBERG COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH*
# [tw2113_Slack_] sorry, coughing fit
# [arush] lol [tw2113_Slack_]
# [arush] [tw2113_Slack_] GB is at the same point where all the other drag-drop solutions are in terms of they've got 80% really good and they're stuck on the last 2%, and we keep being told it's super awesome/better than all the rest but it keeps not living up to the hype.
# [tw2113_Slack_] yay marketing!
# [tw2113_Slack_] calm yoself loqi
# [arush] twenty percent not two. WTF is wrong with these Jaws Slack scripts.
# [tw2113_Slack_] but what's the latest "powered by the internet" status from the most recent State of the Word?
# [tw2113_Slack_] 40%+ ?
# [arush] Yeah but that's according to one source, and now I want to find that post where someone dared to question the stats which immediately resulted in a leadership melt-down because i think that questioner may have been correct to question. Because given recent experience with clients, its these little details that are going to screw up business operations and trust me, they do not care about Wordpress being high on its own supply.
# [tw2113_Slack_] i'm all for validation
# [tw2113_Slack_] dare I say, the cult of ma.tt ?
# [arush] Re; moving forward though, I think indieweb folks might want to start considering taking our ball and moving over to Classicpress. Still researching because I'd like to be reasonably sure it's going to survive, but am seriously looking for at least my personal site.
# [tw2113_Slack_] oh yes, classic press exists
# [arush] Yeah. That cult. I mean I'm not trying to go all WpTavern comments section here, but I have to admit, all the philosophizing with very little practicality really isn't solving any problems.
# [arush] @gwg which things specifically?
# [tw2113_Slack_] not to toot my own horn THAT much, but i heard on a recent enough podcast that Matt still likes the blogroll, and i created a block around the blog roll...i'm helping him bridge his legacy with his current, and i hope he's making good use out of my block
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# [arush] [tw2113_Slack_] you should totally toot your own horn re; that block, because if you don't no one else will.
# [tw2113_Slack_] definitely a hurdle for post kinds
# [tw2113_Slack_] I'm up to 20+ installs 😄
# [tw2113_Slack_] that's at least 20+ people on modern WP that still care about blogrolls
# [arush] yeah for post kinds and i think to a lesser extent webmentions in general because Wordpress currently eats those as comments and see above re; comments and the short end of the stick.
# [tw2113_Slack_] not recently in any context
# [arush] [tw2113_Slack_] 20 is way more than I thought would have cared about the blogroll, I think that's awesome. Sometimes I wonder if people would care more about blogging features in general if platforms cared, but I suppose that could also be me being nestalgic.
# [arush] like, what if micro.blog had the same kind of funding WordPress does/
# [tw2113_Slack_] i legit wonder what discovery looks like in 2021/2022 without the source of the flighty social media. Like seriously, how do you promote yourself in this modern age?
# [tw2113_Slack_] and perhaps subsconsciously, I started a blog/website to try and discover just that this year, where i do non-serious reviews of campy/bad movies
# [chrisaldrich] [tw2113_Slack_] he didn't reply to this thread about blogrolls: https://twitter.com/rboren/status/1019275363522895874
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@rboren @photomatt I recall the jokes made about crusty blogrolls when we deprecated the links manager. Now, folks are exhuming it for use as their canonical OPML source to feed OPML subscriptions. https://boffosocko.com/2017/11/10/a-following-page/ (twitter.com/_/status/1019275363522895874)
# [tw2113_Slack_] i auto-publish to Twitter and have my RSS prominently featured on the site itself, but it's still a struggle so to speak
# [arush] problem with syndication at least is that it's getting harder to syndicate to silos and the ones you can syndicate to are becoming fewer. And yeah i remember that thread re; blogrolls.
# [tw2113_Slack_] [chrisaldrich] definitely an interesting point
# [tw2113_Slack_] at the same time, i've devtools modified to push some parts down a little bit for this screenshot
# [arush] yeah i gotta get microsub working again too.
# [tw2113_Slack_] tweet for posterity https://twitter.com/tw2113/status/1469723266864586757
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@tw2113 @photomatt listening to you on the Open Minds by Creative Commons podcast from this summer and I think you’ll like this block I made https://wordpress.org/plugins/blogroll-block/ (twitter.com/_/status/1469723266864586757)
# [tw2113_Slack_] yay permalinks
# [tw2113_Slack_] do your dance of happy, loqi
# [arush] i think this year's project is going to be figuring out how to detach myself from Goodreads. Starting with putting book challenges on hold so i create less content lol.
# GWG [arush]: https://indieweb.org/2022/Pop-ups/Sessions#Personal_Libraries - This might interest you
# [tw2113_Slack_] coincidentally i'm somewhat eying abstracting out my goodreads-fork on apiratelifefor.me work [arush]
# [tw2113_Slack_] which is mostly CMB2 and post types and template overrides. Need to figure out how to best make things not template-based
# [arush] yeah it's in my reads; https://arush.io/156858-2/
# [tw2113_Slack_] koolaid of matt
# [arush] @gwg I will totally add that to the calendar because it very much interests me.
# [tw2113_Slack_] i'll give him credit for not going for the blockchain or whatever angle of "web 3.0" but at the same time...
# [tw2113_Slack_] we're barely Web 1.0 compliiant, in the long scheme of things, "web 3.0" feels very gatekept"
# [arush] Yeah that stuff about saving the internet was a bit much, and I don't agree with him re: web3 I agree with Jack that it is absolutely just another form of centralization.
# [tw2113_Slack_] yeah, these blockchain things are open source, but the people who could proverbially benefit most are too busy with trying to survive to bother
# [tw2113_Slack_] Web3 is very techbro
# [tw2113_Slack_] and forgive me ahead of time if i mix web3 with web3.0. web3 is what i am criticizing
# [tw2113_Slack_] and also very much not WordPress, sorry for that 😄
# [arush] WP may be 43%, at least according to w3tecs, but what we don't know is how much of that is GB and how much of that is old editor
# [chrisaldrich] We've also got to remember that Ma.tt/Automattic has taken VC money now and there will be an expectation of return on investment there. This fact makes me wary as they're usually the one's driving the direction of WordPress.
# [arush] Yeah what Chris said.
# [tw2113_Slack_] i'm still convinced that the WP REST API came to be because Matt insisted on the ability to push Gutenberg through, which ironically heavily relies on the REST API
# [chrisaldrich] [tw2113_Slack_] re: your screenshot of your blocks tweet showing the Ma.tt like -- I thought I was the only one who modified pages with dev tools to get nice screenshots like that. 🙂
# [tw2113_Slack_] it has a dark side...did someone really say such things?
# [arush] I don't think that's going to change as quickly as Matt wishes it would. There are a lot of sites depending on things like custom tax and custom fields and that stuff is getting the short end in GB. Matt saying Ok GB is perfect we're going to turn off classic editor isn't going to fix all that.
# [arush] And I haven't even touched on the creeping of accessibility issues, which i know most don't care about but still continues apace.
# [arush] yeah I modify pages through dev tools to fix things all the time.
# [tw2113_Slack_] I don't foresee "classic editor" leaving the core codebase any time soon
# [arush] Oh you have this really awesome caracel that's getting in my way and won't shut up because you used ARIA incorrectly again? display:none on the whole thing when possible.
# [tw2113_Slack_] much like the links menu item still has not left
# [tw2113_Slack_] @chi
# [tw2113_Slack_] proper props to Meagan who is an unknowing demonstration 😄
# [tw2113_Slack_] [arush] champion ARIA and a11y as loud a you can for as long as you can, in my humble opinion
# [arush] i hope it does, but it's not something we can really bank on.
# [arush] FSE took a way bigger leap than i thought it would, which is concerning.
# [tw2113_Slack_] obsoleteling the idea of a theme. yay
# [arush] For new sites that's not a big deal, but for sites that need to be redone, say, because their content needs to be remediated for accessibility and their theme needs it and plugins are creating problems, those are the ones where it's not so smooth a transition.
# [tw2113_Slack_] i'm a really odd mix of "yay! gutenberg" and "FUCK GUTENBERG!"
# [tw2113_Slack_] i recently had a mostly smooth transition from a lot of classic content to gutenerg, but it wasn't seamless
# [arush] There are some things i really like about it, like the way themes are going and some of the things you can do with blocks. But at the same time, it makes me want to pull my hair out. So yeah my thoughts are kind of mixed on it.
# [tw2113_Slack_] with the exception of some posts that have a column layout of links and a poll, and then also a grid of 4 for youtube videos, most of my gutes posts are pretty heading/paragraph/image based
# [tw2113_Slack_] WebDevStudios, my employer, is decently heavy in ACF + blocks last i checked
# [arush] Yeah but the thing about ACF and blocks is that if you're dealing with new fields/groups it's easy. If dealing with old stuff that's already there stick a fork in it because you're done. No blocks for you. And it can get really weird when a site's heavily depending on ACF so you have to have classic editor for parts of it to work, but then there are parts that are all blocks. Creates a very disjointed experience.
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# [tw2113_Slack_] Hmmm 🤔
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# [arush] Early Christmas present?
# [tw2113_Slack_] it's suspect after I used browser dev tools to fake a different tweet to mention Chris 😄
# [tw2113_Slack_] [arush] Chris posted a screenshot claiming Matt Mullenweg praising my blogroll block plugin
# [tw2113_Slack_] over on twitter
# [arush] Oh now it makes sense.
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# [tw2113_Slack_] Chris Mass Present
# [tw2113_Slack_] a really big, massive gift
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# [chrisaldrich] Apologies for the lack of alt on that screenshot. Slack could do better and I intended to come back after Michael saw the original, I didn't expect it to be while I was still sleeping the holiday away. It was a visually realistic screenshot (made with browser dev tools) of a modified Mullenweg tweet from December 24 so that it read "I'm desperately in love with the new Gutenberg blogroll block from [tw2113_Slack_]."
# [tw2113_Slack_] 😄
# [chrisaldrich] My birthday is in July, so we celebrate Chrismas in July.
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