2012-07-01 UTC
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# 00:41 tilgovi I was clarifying your request, not offering a resource for it.
# 00:41 donpdonp current idea in the room is, use page on your own indiesite with an hcard for that venue
# 00:42 tilgovi so, e.g., you and I can check into the same place?
# 00:43 donpdonp tilgovi: one idea is to encourage the copying of an hcard from indiesite to indiesite
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# 01:29 sivy cool stuff coming out of IWC
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# 04:59 sivy wish I could have been there1
# 04:59 sivy hey lmorchard - you 'round?
# 04:59 aaronpk sivy: yea too bad you couldn't make it out this time!
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# 15:25 erinjo Buon giorno, Loqi
# 15:25 erinjo Good morning, Loqi
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# 17:07 aaronpk barnabywalters: good morning! we're going to get started here again, want to join via hangout again?
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# 17:07 barnabywalters aaronpk: Morning! I'm just making+eating dinner at the moment, but afterwards that would be great
# 17:08 barnabywalters I intend to spend the rest of the day working on my browser actions extension
# 17:08 barnabywalters so if anyone wants to help some kid make a browser extension I would greatly appreciate it!
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# 17:12 barnabywalters I've got the shell of the extension and a write-up in the readme which explains the aims+advantages
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# 17:50 faddah yo. sunday mahrnin' y'all.
# 17:50 faddah we'z gittin' awwll hacky up in heyeah.
# 17:51 barnabywalters faddah: morning! Sorry I ignored you yesterday in the hangout — you arrived at the same time as 99 random people who I had to ignore quicky :)
# 17:53 faddah barnabywalters: eeez cool, uk cuzzin. everyone ignores me. {snicker!}
ain't no thang. ;) thing is, it think you ignored/blocked me too, so i couldn't get back in the hangout. :P
# 17:58 barnabywalters aaronpk: any chance you could get the hangout going again? is it likely to be much use today?
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# 18:09 aaronpk Everybody is breaking up into groups now to start digging in to some projects
# 18:09 aaronpk if there's a particular one you'd like to hang out in I can put the computer there
# 18:14 barnabywalters okay, where abouts is brennannovack? I'd like to sit in on the socialigniter install session please
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# 18:24 brennannovak yo barnabywalters: how goes it mate?
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# 18:35 alexlinsker question: I want people to be able to type a password into a post, and in PHP to check whether there's a line or paragraph break or space after it. Anyone know the string function code to do that?
# 18:37 e_s_p donpdonp: I'm here
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# 18:39 donpdonp my first take on what openrealtime means is an open source real time operating system, like for embedded systems
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# 18:41 alexlinsker re my question I figured it out thanks
# 18:51 evanp Is it rude to push commits to this channel?
# 18:52 donpdonp i just made notes for what i expect the relme spider would provide
# 18:53 evanp I just enabled the code to push commits
# 18:53 evanp donpdonp: can I put you on the project?
# 18:54 evanp donpdonp: we're almost totally in line here
# 18:55 evanp donpdonp: can we do that in a while?
# 18:55 evanp I happen to have openrealtime.net
# 18:57 evanp donpdonp: you're on
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# 19:08 evanp benatkin: so I just pushed the README
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# 19:08 evanp Is it enough to start doing unit test scripts for the API?
# 19:08 evanp donpdonp: can you check that API?
# 19:09 connells so does anybody know where the boilerplate people are?
# 19:10 evanp Can somebody fix my crappy markdown in the README.md?
# 19:10 evanp The code examples aren't correct
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# 19:15 faddah i hate the “bub.”
# 19:17 donpdonp evanp: it looks like the only output is a URL which make sense. id say that the means the only input is a URL and an exact match is used. make @twitter and e@mail.com are query helpers that get translated to http://twitter.com/twitter and ?. Drop the plain text as it does not map to a url
# 19:19 Loqi evanp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:evanp/openrealtime-net
# 19:19 evanp I don't know wher ethat is
# 19:19 evanp aaronpk: it worked
# 19:24 evanp We're kind of forcing this because jancborchardt and I want about the same data in different ways
# 19:24 evanp He wants to be able to log in using his own name
# 19:24 evanp So "Jan-Christoph Borchardt" would be sufficient to log himself in somewhere
# 19:25 evanp *I* want to be able to onboard new users to StatusNet
# 19:25 evanp And pre-initialize their follow list based on their existing Twitter follow list
# 19:25 evanp So something like:
# 19:26 evanp 1. User registers with identi.ca using Twitter account
# 19:26 donpdonp storing an english name in the db creates more problems than it solves
# 19:26 evanp 2. Identi.ca requests their full following list from Twitter
# 19:27 evanp 3. Identi.ca passes all those Twitter handles to openrealtime.net
# 19:27 evanp 4. Open realtime gives back all the PuSH-enabled accounts for those Twitter handles
# 19:27 evanp 5. Identi.ca asks the user if they want to subscribe to some or all of these people
# 19:28 evanp 6. Identi.ca uses OStatus to subscribe to all the accounts
# 19:28 evanp donpdonp: don't tell me
# 19:28 donpdonp the twitter case is supportable because it fits into the url-storage scheme. @name = twitter.com/name
# 19:29 donpdonp also PuSH is dependent on using URLs so that lends to the idea that the db should be made of URLs
# 19:30 evanp Another case would be that you ask to "find more friends" using your address book in GMail
# 19:30 donpdonp names do not fit into that so until there is a way to do fuzzy search or some such, id leave that out for version 2.
# 19:30 evanp Identi.ca then passes a crapload of email addresses to openrealtime.net
# 19:30 evanp ...and gets back those accounts
# 19:31 evanp ...and theoretically others
# 19:32 evanp I see a few ways
# 19:32 evanp One is that we have a bunch of email addresses for identi.ca
# 19:32 evanp So we could use that as an initial map
# 19:33 evanp The next is that we can use the Gravatar profile API to discover related URLs
# 19:33 evanp ...and figure out which of them has a related PuSH feed
# 19:33 evanp That would probably go pretty far
# 19:34 evanp After that, Webfinger on the email address
# 19:34 evanp Even sending the person an email asking about it
# 19:35 evanp "don park: your realtime address has been requested on openrealtime.net. Do you have an account on Tumblr, Posterous, WordPress, or Blogger...? Sign up at openrealtime.net so people can find you."
# 19:35 donpdonp id rather have a branding logo on the site using openrealtime.net that if i cared about it id read on the site that i should add services to gravatar
# 19:36 evanp That works OK too
# 19:36 jancborchardt donpdonp: sure it creates more problems, but to be solved with code. The goal of being able to sign in with your own name is to make sign in easier. The name does not necessarily need to be stored, it could only be the profile you actually authorized with
# 19:36 donpdonp yeah thats the problem, if i get spammed right after using my email, im not going to like it
# 19:36 Loqi benatkin: upgrade to express 3.0 beta
# 19:36 Loqi benatkin: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:evanp/openrealtime-net
# 19:36 donpdonp jancborchardt: names are crazy ambiguous, thats partly why email addresses were created to begin with
# 19:37 jancborchardt donpdonp: yeah, but people can’t remember email addresses or user names, and don’t get me started on web addresses
# 19:38 jancborchardt I know it’s a hard problem, but those are the kind that should be solved, to people’s benefit. We shouldn’t say »fuck you, that’s too hard to implement, just learn to remember your email address«
# 19:38 donpdonp ok i can see we're not going to agree on that and I think we can work on that part later
# 19:38 jancborchardt donpdonp: evanp in any case I agree that fuzzy search or even name search should not be put in version 1
# 19:39 evanp OK so second thing from my side
# 19:39 evanp For the PuSH search
# 19:39 evanp We have array-of-strings => map-of-arrays
# 19:39 evanp I'd like to have an optional Webhook param
# 19:41 jancborchardt just as a thought: as openrealtime.net is kind of an open contacts backend / aggregator, in the future this could also be tied in with brennannovak’s thing of a social indie messaging service
# 19:42 evanp jancborchardt: yes
# 19:43 brennannovak jancborchardt: evanp: I like this sort of talk :P
# 19:43 donpdonp im thinking about how to store the data so its queryable, given search keys can be anything and results are urls
# 19:45 donpdonp actually email is the only edge case, the other examples can be mapped to url (@twitter)
# 19:46 Loqi evanp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:evanp/openrealtime-net
# 19:47 evanp donpdonp: let's make the storage serve the interface
# 19:47 evanp Rather than the other way around
# 19:47 evanp Doing the "@handle" => "https://twitter.com/handle" transformation is easy for us to do on the server side
# 19:48 donpdonp evanp: sure, but the storage is showing me how the interface is crazy. :)
# 19:48 evanp Can we do it so we accept URL or email address?
# 19:48 evanp We'll drop English name and @handle for now?
# 19:49 donpdonp to me this is purely an ID service. given one ID, return the associated IDs
# 19:50 evanp Well, I don't care about that other stuff, though
# 19:50 donpdonp the idea is to find the user's other identities on the web, which is represented by their unique IDs
# 19:51 evanp And filtering the returned IDs on the client end is kind of a pain
# 19:51 donpdonp evanp: the list of equivalint IDs is how status.net will know what services to ask the user for permission on that network
# 19:52 donpdonp status.net says what IDs are there for @donpdonp, retuns [facebook.com/don.park, donpark.org]
# 19:52 donpdonp now statusnet can ask, i see you use facebook, I CAN HAS OAUTH on facebook?
# 19:53 evanp I mean, that's fine
# 19:53 evanp But I want this:
# 19:53 evanp But what I want when I've sucked down the friends list
# 19:53 evanp Is to know which of those friends can be followed over OStatus
# 19:54 evanp So I want to ask the search server
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# 19:54 evanp "Here are a bunch of IDs -- give me back profile URLs that can be followed over OStatus"
# 19:54 donpdonp so second query, give facebook friends list to openrealtime, now we know all IDs for each user.
# 19:55 evanp And then filter all those IDs for which ones have PuSH-enabled feeds
# 19:55 donpdonp im not sure who's job it is to determine if an ID in associated with a PuSH URL
# 19:55 Loqi donpdonp meant to say: im not sure who's job it is to determise if an ID is associated with a PuSH URL
# 19:56 evanp It's the search servers
# 19:56 evanp donpdonp: how about this
# 19:56 evanp pubsub=true flag on the search
# 19:56 evanp So it only returns push-enabled feeds
# 19:57 donpdonp sure but that expands the scope of theservice, which im not sure about
# 19:57 evanp Actually, that's the original scope of the service
# 19:58 donpdonp my original scope is spidering IDs to find equivalent IDs using rel=me. thats it.
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# 19:58 evanp Well, we haven't actually talked about spidering
# 19:58 donpdonp thats useful for when statusnet get the facebook friends list, and can identifiy peple already on statusnet
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# 19:59 evanp donpdonp: can you live with a search that maps each of one or more IDs to a list of related IDs
# 20:00 donpdonp thats part of the data model weirdness.there is no one true id. they're all related
# 20:00 evanp We can have an artificial internal ID, like a UUID
# 20:01 evanp ...and the search allows filtering so it only returns accounts with PuSH-enabled feeds
# 20:01 evanp A couple of things
# 20:02 donpdonp id say its secondary data to the IDs - in the same category of finding profile photos, too
# 20:02 evanp First, we can accumulate this stuff over time
# 20:02 evanp Second, we can grab stuff from search APIs, like Gravatar
# 20:02 evanp Third, we can spider when we get a chance
# 20:05 evanp donpdonp: your blog has localhost URLs for the feeds, btw
# 20:05 evanp OK, so, I'm going to try the API design one more time
# 20:06 Loqi donpdonp meant to say: i worknig on a gist that might help
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# 20:10 donpdonp add profile photo spidering which leads into credit score spidering and we've built RapLeaf
# 20:10 Loqi evanp: Make the API donpdonp-compatible
# 20:10 Nadreck While I'm sad I couldn't make it to Day 2, I'm really glad to see so much activity on the channel!
# 20:13 faddah oh SURE, donpdonp , ya roll this way for free food!
# 20:14 Nadreck Priorities in the right place, yep.
# 20:15 evanp Still not working
# 20:15 evanp donpdonp: I'm going to implement this while you're en route
# 20:16 evanp So I don't have to put up with any more interface
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# 20:58 Loqi evanp: Add DatabankObjects for person and identifier
# 21:03 Loqi evanp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:evanp/openrealtime-net
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# 21:23 Loqi evanp: Add a beforeCreate() hook to automatically add a UUID
# 21:23 Loqi evanp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:evanp/openrealtime-net
# 21:23 Loqi evanp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:evanp/openrealtime-net
# 21:27 jancborchardt evanp: can you point the A record for openrealtime.net to 204.232.175.78 ?
# 21:27 evanp jancborchardt: Not sure I understand that
# 21:27 jancborchardt evanp: ah, for github pages to work
# 21:27 evanp It's currently pointing to a server that will host the API
# 21:28 evanp But can we host the API and database and all that on github pages? I don't think so
# 21:28 jancborchardt no, probably not
# 21:28 evanp So we could do api.openrealtime.net as the API server
# 21:28 evanp and openrealtime.net as the home page
# 21:29 jancborchardt right, that would probably be better anyway
# 21:29 evanp I will make it so
# 21:29 Loqi jancborchardt: add CNAME pointing to openrealtime.net
# 21:31 Loqi benatkin: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:evanp/openrealtime-net
# 21:31 Loqi benatkin: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:evanp/openrealtime-net
# 21:32 Loqi benatkin: fix invalid json in package.json (oops!)
# 21:38 Loqi evanp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:evanp/openrealtime-net
# 21:50 MichaelMalachi wishes he could have made it
# 21:50 Loqi donpdonp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:evanp/openrealtime-net
# 21:50 Loqi jancborchardt: change CNAME to openfollow.net
# 21:51 MichaelMalachi i had dreams about federated web stuff last night heh
# 21:54 MichaelMalachi brennannovak: last update from social igniter blog is from indiewebcamp last year heh
# 21:56 brennannovak MichaelMalachi: heh, I know... bloggin is challenging for me, I take too long to do it
# 21:57 Loqi jancborchardt: change openrealtime to openfollow in site
# 21:58 Loqi evanp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:evanp/openfollow
# 22:01 MichaelMalachi has anyone tried exchanging binary data in feed info?
# 22:01 MichaelMalachi like base64 encoded video
# 22:03 MichaelMalachi i had an epiphany today that went something like, the regular internet is like symlinks where we point to some remote resource on the internet, and federated web is more about passing around the actual data itself rather than linking to it
# 22:04 MichaelMalachi s/regular internet/regular web/
# 22:04 Loqi MichaelMalachi meant to say: i had an epiphany today that went something like, the regular web is like symlinks where we point to some remote resource on the internet, and federated web is more about passing around the actual data itself rather than linking to it
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# 22:11 MichaelMalachi is there a webfacing demo of openfollow up?
# 22:13 Loqi evanp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:evanp/openfollow
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# 22:33 donpdonp evanp: are you working on 'Cannot call method 'getIdentifiers' of null'
# 22:33 evanp donpdonp: something else
# 22:40 Loqi evanp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:evanp/openfollow
# 22:44 MichaelMalachi julien__: "Not available :("
# 22:44 julien__ MichaelMalachi : yeah, sorry, I was demoing to Brian, but Iremoved it since that :)
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# 23:35 MichaelMalachi if i publish a 5 meg file via pubsubhubbub will all the clients auto download it?
# 23:35 MichaelMalachi using atom:content
# 23:39 tantek ok folks - putting it out there - what do you think of an IndieWebCampUK in Brighton 2012-09-08…09-09? (just after http://2012.dconstruct.org put on by @clearleft - tickets still available apparently ) - I may already have one co-organizer lined up from Scotland who can help out
# 23:40 tantek might be able to get some help with that from @glennjones (of Madgex)
# 23:46 brennannovak tantek: the day it is confirmed is the day i will buy a plane ticket
# 23:47 tantek I already have a ticket to dConstruct 2012, and am already planning to be in the UK/Brighton that weekend
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