#indiewebcamp 2013-05-08

2013-05-08 UTC
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pdurbin
heh. I think I only ever used it to edit local files
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tantek
I think we here (#indiewebcamp) have the best chance of re-attaining a read-write web.
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tantek
by/for everyone
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pdurbin
whoops, I meant to type W3C, of course
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pdurbin
tantek: well, the web was more read/write back when the only people on the web were pioneers and technologists, right? people who were motivated to register their own domains, maybe even host stuff themselves
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tantek
we have *got* to solve the indie events posting + RSVP problem
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tantek
so frustrating to post events on silos
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tantek
so many weird problems
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christopheducamp.com
edited /Facebook-fr (+2017) "[fr: sync'd translation + 2 articles in fr]"
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christopheducamp.com
edited /Facebook-fr (-35) "[fr: ''Cette page a démarré sur [[Facebook]]'']"
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pdurbin
I still use evite. old school, I guess :) ... works well enough for me
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christopheducamp.com
edited /Facebook-fr (-83) "/* Articles */ removed duplicate"
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christopheducamp.com
edited /Facebook-fr (+3) "[fr: grammar + link POSSE-fr]"
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aaronpk
really tempted to add full h-event support to IndieNews this weekend
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tantek
that reminds me
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aaronpk
right now it recognizes h-events and uses the event title + venue as the headline for the entry
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tantek
aaronpk - how about the datetime at the start?
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tantek
(of the headline)
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aaronpk
that would be good
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tantek
time is important for events ;)
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aaronpk
I also would love to see a calendar view of entries
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tantek
that's actually not as important
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tantek
upcoming launched with only lists of events
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tantek
and it was awesome
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tantek
calendar views are overhyped - blow it off
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aaronpk
well I'll add an "/events" URL that shows just the h-events it found
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tantek
at most, a calendar widget to click-on to scroll around is a nice-to-have
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barnabywalters
if people want calendar view, they should feed the h-entry -> VCALENDAR into their calendar app of choice
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aaronpk
true! I can add "events.ics" so you can subscribe directly
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: that would be cool. protip: the vobject library extracted from sabredav is a great way of generating that nasty VCARD/CALENDAR syntax
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barnabywalters
IIRC it has some magic which handles timezones correctly too
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aaronpk
timezones :)
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aaronpk
always fun to deal with
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barnabywalters
with taproot my approach so far has been to ignore them and hope for the best
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aaronpk
usually works fine for single-user things
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tantek
with Falcon I've just put everything in Pacific time, even when I'm posting from overseas / other timezones.
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aaronpk
i've been trying to be better about supporting timezones in things I make
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barnabywalters
tantek: that is what my approach boils down to
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tantek
so I can re-interpret the data later if I need to
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tantek
though right now I'm not distinguishing PST/PDT
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tantek
so some additional smarts may be necessary (beyond simply -0800)
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aaronpk
p3k supports setting the timezone per post, which is nice for notes cause you get the extra context of evening/morning. http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2012/12/05/2/leweb12
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barnabywalters
I have some styling stuff planned involving the amount of daylight in my current timezone
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aaronpk
i want to figure out some sort of visual indication of my local time that isn't obnoxious
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aaronpk
suppose I could just use a slightly darker grey grid background in the evenings
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barnabywalters
but bigger holes to fill before that — namely persistence and indexing
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barnabywalters
on which note, I’d be interested in feedback on the API brainstorming I’ve been doing: https://github.com/Taproot/librarian/blob/master/librarianApiNoodling.php
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aaronpk
interesting
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barnabywalters
the idea is to store everything in flat files, have SQL-based indexes, with a table per index
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barnabywalters
then expose the indexes as really fluent APIs
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barnabywalters
designed around my particular use cases
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barnabywalters
and all DB stuff is completely automated, so I can freely add/remove/change indexes and everything just gets updated
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aaronpk
cool, seems reasonable
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aaronpk
i've gone with a different approach with p3k, not as flexible
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tantek
DB as a cache of info from flatfiles?
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barnabywalters
tantek: right on
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barnabywalters
where schema of info in flat files is optimal for reading, schema of info in DB is optimised for querying
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barnabywalters
and I can throw away DB without worrying, because all the indexes will get rebuilt automatically
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Loqi
BECAUSE ALL THE INDEXES http://loqi.me/7BT
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tantek
yeah, that's the only good use for a DB
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barnabywalters
I have flat file saving working, just getting started on the DB/indexes stuff
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tantek
purely as a cache, never for persistence
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aaronpk
my "/notes" URL does a directory scan to find all the files in my "notes" directory. my tags are indexes saved as flat files (yaml format)
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tantek
aaronpk - sounds like a good detail to add to indiewebcamp.com/p3k ;)
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tantek
my storage directory structure is already documented on indiewebcamp.com/Falcon
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tantek
so, re: events
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tantek
finally saw an RSVP post in my news feed
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tantek
or is it newsfeed?
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aaronpk
oh nice!
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tantek
so that's a good starting point for both figuring out the pieces of an RSVP post
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tantek
and a decent presentation
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tantek
(one that others will recognize for sure, since people see them in FB)
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tantek
and once we have that, we can start posting RSVPs on our own sites
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tantek
as "replies" to "event" posts
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tantek
where said "event" posts can be on another indieweb site (of course)
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tantek
OR (and in addition to) on events.indiewebcamp.com
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tantek
the same logic that displays comments received via webmention on a post
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tantek
can be used to display RSVPs received via webmention on an event post
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tantek
of course that "logic that displays comments received via webmention" is only implemented currently in Storytlr right?
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aaronpk
also implemented in IndieNews
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tantek
a-ha!
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aaronpk
so it will be a relatively small change to recognize "rsvp comments" and display those accordingly
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barnabywalters
so do we have a format for rsvp comments specced out?
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tantek
barnabywalters - extracting the implied schema from the FB RSVP example as we speak
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tantek
aside, I was searching for the answer to "news feed or newsfeed" and found this:
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tantek
look at all the post types!
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barnabywalters
“bright, beautiful stories”? hoaxes, “puzzles” and game requests more like
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aaronpk
whoa, this is crazy
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barnabywalters
quite nice UI though
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tantek
I think it's an out of date page
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aaronpk
you sure? I clicked the "join the waitlist" button and it said 14 of my friends have "made the switch"
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tantek.com
edited /Facebook (+219) "aggregator"
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tantek
barnabywalters re: format for rsvp comments, here's a draft: http://microformats.org/wiki/rsvp-brainstorming#h-entry_plus_additions
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barnabywalters
tantek: away for a few mins, will have a look when I get back
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tantek
np - I'm off to a telcon - might do while walking/running ;)
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barnabywalters
tantek: +1 on p-rsvp
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pdurbin
you guys are giving me too much to catch up on ;)
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pdurbin
aaronpk: dunno if you saw my comments about a "today" page for these logs. and links to previous and next days: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-05-06#t1367891112
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aaronpk
I would totally expect to write something like this in a note: I'm <span class="p-rsvp value-title" title="yes">going</span> to <a href="http://indiewebcamp.com/2013">IndieWebCamp 2013</a>
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aaronpk
pdurbin: oh yes, good idea on the /today URL
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pdurbin
cool. and links to the next and previous day of logs?
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aaronpk
I'm <span class="p-rsvp value-title" title="yes">going</span> to <a href="http://indiewebcamp.com/2013" class="u-in-reply-to">IndieWebCamp 2013</a>
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aaronpk
pdurbin: yes, that was an oversight :) all my other IRC log views have next/prev day links
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pdurbin
right. no worries
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pdurbin
otherwise the logs are perfect. permalinks per line. links are clickable
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aaronpk
I do want to add highlighting of the line that is permalinked like how Github does it
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aaronpk
like how it highlights in yellow the line linked to in the fragment https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/blob/master/controller.rb#L9
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aaronpk
need a bit of clever javascript is all
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aaronpk
ah yes, but I'd do it on the whole line
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pdurbin
!tell barnabywalters if you have a bunch of flat files you want to index and expose via an API, you could use http://lucene.apache.org/solr/ or http://www.elasticsearch.org
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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pdurbin
Loqi: thanks. even though, you're on my /ignore list
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aaronpk
"At the end of these standards, in order to be federated, we are essentially talking about one system. Standardized storage, as well as back ends, basically with infinitely customizable GUIs."
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aaronpk
from FSW mailing list
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benwerd
That's not a million miles away from saying we should only have one kind of web server, or browser type.
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tantek
aaronpk - URL?
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aaronpk
good question...
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aaronpk
ah here we go
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tantek
aaronpk - btw re: your p-rsvp markup snippets - better to use <data> element as provided in the examples in the brainstorm proposal.
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tantek
rather than value-class pattern
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aaronpk
why's that?
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tantek
simpler, less markup
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tantek
also, enums aren't really supposed to go into visible title attributes
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aaronpk
ah yes
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tantek
as enums are machine-values - that they're human readable is a positive design accident at best, and likely only to English readers
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aaronpk
so, it would actually be:
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tantek
which is why if you *really* wanted to use the value class pattern you should use the nested-empty-span approach
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tantek
to avoid the problem of visible title enum values
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tantek
so data is better:
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tantek
I'm <data class="p-rsvp" value="yes">going</data> to <a href="http://indiewebcamp.com/2013">IndieWebCamp 2013</a>
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aaronpk
I'm <data class="p-rsvp" value="yes">going</data> to <a href="http://indiewebcamp.com/2013" class="u-in-reply-to">IndieWebCamp 2013</a>
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tantek
yeah - assuming there's an h-entry h-event at http://indiewebcamp.com/2013
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aaronpk
seems reasonable
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tantek
aaronpk - just reading that FSW thread now. yikes.
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aaronpk
yea...
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aaronpk
I kind of want to chime in with a link to your post showing our indieweb comments
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tantek
I kind of want to reply with either a Yoda-style or Morpheus-style reply debunking each and every false assertion / assumption that is made in that thread.
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aaronpk
oh man please do :)
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tantek
wow - there were no messages in April so the link for FSW April archives is a 404
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tantek
aaronpk - on a more positive note - I'm working on getting sponsors for parts of IndieWebCamp 2013
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tantek
do we have a "how to sponsor IndieWebCamp" page somewhere?
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tantek
something you've used with past sponsors?
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aaronpk
oh great!
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tantek
I noticed that in the left sidebar, the "You?" blue text doesn't link to anything - is it supposed to?
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aaronpk
somehow we don't have that page
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tantek
do you have any text from emails you've sent other sponsors like Tropo that you could turn into a small "how-to-sponsor" wiki page?
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aaronpk
should take some hints from opensourcebridge.org, they have great sponsor materials
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aaronpk
yea, i'm digging up some stuff
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tantek
nothing too big, something short and sweet would be sufficient
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tantek
and then we can add to adaptively it as sponsors ask questions
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tantek
s/adaptively it/it adaptively
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: and then we can add to it adaptively as sponsors ask questions
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tantek.com
edited /Sponsors (+95) "How to sponsor"
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aaronpk
wow, somehow I've been able to get all the sponsors so far by talking to them in person. Can't find any sort of pitch email in my archives
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tantek.com
edited /event (+262) "rsvp, disambig events"
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tantek.com
created /how-to-sponsor (+531) "draft with what we've found we needed sponsorship for in the past"
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tantek.com
edited /Events (+62) "disambig event"
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tantek
aaronpk - ok, here's a braindump off the top of my head - please feel free to rewrite in any way you deem fit: http://indiewebcamp.com/how-to-sponsor
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aaronpk
wonderful, got a bunch about to submit there
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tantek
thanks!
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tantek.com
edited /2013 (+4) "/* to-do */ link"
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tantek.com
edited /2013 (+67) "/* to-do */ use planning"
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tantek.com
edited /2013/Planning (+8) "signing up Mozilla for day 1 coffee"
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tantek.com
edited /2013/Planning (+38) "/* roles */ contact"
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tantek
hmm - we don't have printed material
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tantek
the rest looks awesome!
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tantek
shall we ditch the printed material until we actually have a reason to have some
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elf-pavlik
xtof: we were talking something about personal data in context of IndieWeb... :)
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xtof
elf-pavlik hi, I'd be happy to talk IRL if you're still in Paris ?
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elf-pavlik
cool! i may stay here till end of the week, when would you have time?
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xtof
available all the week whenever you want. would be happy to invite you for dinner ?
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aaronpk
tantek: yea good point
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aaronpk
interesting thing about original post discovery... http://indiewebcamp.com/original-post-discovery
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aaronpk
posts syndicated from instagram to twitter are discovered using the algorithm described
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@davystevenson
View from the New Relic #railsconf after-party! @ New Relic PDX HQ http://t.co/z1yhgoT5nO
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lifeofaudrey.com
edited /2013/Guest_List (+346) "/* Creators */"
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tantek
hey Loqi - what in that tweet made you post it here?
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aaronpk
I linked to it
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aaronpk
see above ^^
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tantek
ooh ok
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tantek
and woohoo! welcome Audrey!
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tantek
hmm - http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/04/30/3/ is taking a while to load over here
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aaronpk
:( seems fine for me
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tantek
hmm odd browser dns issues -
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tantek
(on my end)
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tantek
aaronpk - sounds like you might be taking a shortcut in the original post discovery algorithm
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tantek
step 3 (which works with URL at end of tweet) explicitly says "see if it links back to the POSSE'd copy with rel=syndication and then use that URL "
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tantek
since instagram is not linking to that tweet with rel=syndication, that step should fail
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aaronpk
ah yea, I left that out for now, because not enough sites have rel=syndication yet (like yours :))
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tantek
but yours do
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tantek
as well as barnaby's, and tommorris's
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tantek
otherwise you're likely to get false positives
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aaronpk
yes, although in this case it's a true-false-positive
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tantek
no it is a false positive - since the original does lack the commentary
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tantek
which is what you're replying to
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tantek
of the tweet
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aaronpk
the text in the tweet? it's the caption of the image
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aaronpk
instagram.com shows it overlaid on the image though so it's not obvious
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aaronpk
and only on hover, it fades out after a sec
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tantek
yeah - does that work on mobile?
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aaronpk
checking
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aaronpk
whoa... gateway timeout on instagram.com
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aaronpk
on mobile the text appears below the photo, it kind of looks like a comment
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tantek
oh right
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tantek
well perhaps we should see if we can get IG to adopt h-entry p-author h-card on their IG photo permalinks
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tantek
they have enough tags on the page already
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aaronpk
that would be <3
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tantek
with links and such
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tantek
so what should an indieweb reply to a photo post look like? as compared to a reply to a note?
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tantek
(in terms of showing the context of the original)
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aaronpk
IG posts often have text, so there's the text to display as a normal post text
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aaronpk
I would imagine a thumbnail of the photo about 100px, kind of like how facebook shows inline previews
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tantek
not sure I agree with the FB treatment of context like that
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tantek
it's like Twitter "cards" which show something below
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tantek
instead of above, like replies to notes
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tantek
I think we can do better
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aaronpk
huh yea..this is interesting, can't quite figure out where to put the photo on my page
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tantek
I think you were on the right track. Do what you do now, just
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tantek
yes - looks good
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tantek
nice!
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tantek
are you going to whitelist IG permalinks as photo posts?
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aaronpk
(quick mockup in chrome dev tools, not actually coded)
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tantek
upload it to indiewebcamp.com!
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aaronpk
I think I might add a mf2-parser shim for Instagram like I have for Twitter
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tantek
and let's put it on the comment page as a way to display a reply on your own page
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aaronparecki.com
edited /comment (+183) "/* Indieweb examples of displaying comment posts */ added screenshots"
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aaronpk
so yea, I have a class that takes Twitter JSON and outputs the same structure as if it had parsed an h-entry
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aaronpk
so I may do that with Instagram as well
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aaronpk
oh hey! Just realized that instagram has rel=me on the link to my website http://instagram.com/aaronpk so I can use it with IndieAuth!
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reidab
are you allowing non-domain-root logins now?