2013-05-09 UTC
# 00:00 reidab oh, nevermind, I see what you mean b0bg0d joined the channel
# 00:41 bret aaronpk: did you ever catch the discussion about using mozilla personas as an indi-auth provider? # 00:53 bret adding rel= to email links, and comparing that to the persona authentication results scor, bnvk and spinnerin joined the channel
# 02:06 aaronpk what comes back from the persona authentication? I'd need bi-directional verification of url==email matching # 02:10 aaronpk in other words, if example.com has a rel-me link to example@gmail.com, I'd need to know that example@gmail.com claims to be example.com duckbillp, tilgovi and tantek joined the channel
# 02:59 bret aaronpk, im not totally sure, but I think you get an email back. # 02:59 bret i have not had time to get into the technical details, but conceptually, it makes sense # 03:01 aaronpk yes, I'm aware of the design, it's nice that it's actually distributed from the beginning, using mozilla's service as a shim # 03:02 aaronpk i'm pretty sure it would need the bi-directional link though. If it doesn't, then we shouldn't require bi-directional verification for web providers like Twitter.com either. # 03:03 aaronpk which means the basis of RelMeAuth would need to be updated # 03:14 bret i have no idea :? I'm still trying to play catch up with getting PuSH and webmentions working with github pages commit hooks # 03:14 bret outgoing webmentions a little less easy # 03:14 bret and incoming is going to have to be some external tool im not sure what to do about that yet # 03:14 aaronpk it's not really set up as a nice service yet, but it has an API and I can give you an account to play with # 03:17 aaronpk updating the readme since it's a bit out of date... # 03:27 bret jekyll can create static feed type documents easily, and github can pass messages about git commits easily, so I think outgoing messages should be pretty simple # 03:28 bret getting incoming messages into the git repo is going to require some work though # 03:29 bret like if someone sends you a response or a webmention, how to get that data back into a static website based in git # 03:30 bret ill have to think about that for a while # 03:30 aaronpk you'll probably need a server somewhere that can edit the git repo # 03:31 aaronpk a partial solution would be to query the pingback.me API from the browser and display things inline that way. of course the markup wouldn't exist in the page server-side, but the user would see it. # 03:31 bret with a small script? Yeah that would be pretty cool, and realtime actally # 03:32 bret that might actually work really well just to get something running # 03:33 bret i display a live pinboard feed with JS # 03:36 aaronpk I think I might add in microformats parsing into the pingback service, to pull out basic h-entry data from the linked pages like how news.indiewebcamp.com does # 03:37 bret I went with microdata when i made the site :/ kicking myself now bnvk joined the channel
# 04:59 bret you think the weather is going to still be this nice in portland by june? duckbillp joined the channel
# 05:24 aaronpk I get in the habit of adding the pingback/webmention tags to any site I make now, even if I don't have plans to display comments on the site # 05:25 bret I want to totally redo my html templates... lots of effort went into the microdata, and its basically used for nothing... plus its got twitter bootstrap garbage all over # 05:35 bret but its part of the HTML5 spec! I though to myself tantek joined the channel
# 06:07 aaronpk ... experimenting with embedding content inline in notes # 06:07 aaronpk ironically started because I wanted to share a text file in a note # 06:18 aaronpk figured out a clever trick for my linking problem too # 06:18 aaronpk I don't want the http:// visible, but I do want it in the microformat data so it gets syndicated out properly, so I'm hiding the protocol with CSS now :) # 06:29 bret aaronpk, Pingback is the total missing link for static sites I think tilgovi joined the channel
# 06:40 aaronpk but there should be a way to accomplish the same thing with microformats I feel # 06:48 bret so now write some JS that lists the last N mentions # 06:49 aaronpk unfortunately you'll only be able to display the URL right now since that's all the API gives back, but I can add some basic mf2+html parsing to provide a title property as well # 06:50 aaronpk will give me a chance to test out the ruby mf2 parser as well # 06:51 bret I'm going to jump over and work on PuSH since I know that already works tantek-ipod joined the channel
# 06:56 bret is there a way to get some test mentions? # 06:58 aaronpk then you can send a mention from that page to your site # 07:01 bret {"error":"source_not_found","error_description":"The source URI does not exist"}# 07:02 bret man that www is starting to look really ugly right about now # 07:02 bret I can do tld... but I wasn't sure what the best thing to do was # 07:03 bret which seemed weird but im a total novice at DNS # 07:03 aaronpk yea DNS doesn't let you define CNAME records on TLDs # 07:03 bret you have to do an A record or something? # 07:04 bret well since I am working to make URL's a login name in this world, I might as well get it right before i go much furthur # 07:09 bret i'm just crossing my fingers that the .tc domain prices go back down # 07:09 bret i wanted a 3 letter domain that was my name you see :) # 07:11 aaronpk ok now i'm just getting a bit crazy with this embedded media stuff :) # 07:12 bret can you superimpose your geotagged photos onto that streetview? # 07:12 aaronpk eventually I want to do inline previews of web pages like twitter/facebook, but not tonight # 07:16 aaronpk for now: Gists, Vine, Spincam, Youtube, Vimeo, Google Maps, Soundcloud, Slideshare, Images and Video # 07:19 bret buhhhhhhhh... gh-pages takes 10 minuts to update their redirects # 07:25 bret shucks. forgot to update my linkback URLs # 07:29 bret {"error":"no_link_found","error_description":"The source URI does not contain a link to the target URI"}# 07:29 aaronpk looks like you linked to www.bre.tc on indiewebcamp # 07:32 aaronpk that doesn't seem right... it should treat no trailing slash as a trailing slash, yea? # 07:32 bret i mean, yeah it would be nice if that didnt matter # 07:36 aaronpk alright well that was way more than I expected to do tonight # 07:38 aaronpk depends on if you think running ruby apps is easy # 07:38 aaronpk can probably run it on heroku but I haven't done that yet # 07:39 bret i consider znc the pinnacle of easy server apps # 07:41 bret basically, something you can crontab open at startup tantek-ipod and duckbillp joined the channel
# 08:05 aaronpk ... coming up on 21 consecutive hours awake. oops friedcell joined the channel
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# 15:08 tantek re: oEmbed, I think we can achieve nearly all of it with h-entry these days # 15:08 tantek if we do add u-photo which has been proposed, that takes care of the thumbnail needs # 15:08 tantek no need for a separate oEmbed endpoint to query, just get the h-entry from the page itself that you want to embed barnabywalters, tilgovi, tantek-ipod, tantek-ipod_, spinnerin, eschnou, mxuribe, bnvk and mxuribe1 joined the channel
# 18:09 tantek barnabywalters, aaronpk, just as we've been informally using h-as-note and h-as-article, I think it's reasonable to also use h-as-rsvp # 18:10 barnabywalters might be an idea to make a distinction between “publishing” and “using” — we’re publishing them, are any of us actually using that semantic for anything? # 18:12 tantek also it has potential utility if someone wants to write an h-entry -> ActivityStreams(Atom or JSON) converter # 18:12 tantek are either of you using anything like h-as-reply or h-as-comment on your replies/comments posts? # 18:16 tantek ok I'm not either, though I'm not posting "real" replies/comments (yet) # 18:16 tantek (just unlinked @-reply notes once in a while) # 18:16 aaronpk what's h-as-note for? I don't think I have that on my site yet # 18:19 tantek aaronpk - they're more useful/relevant when you have a composite stream of all your different post types # 18:20 tantek but since you have separate stream pages for each post type on your site - not sure how much difference it makes for you (if any) gRegorLove joined the channel
# 18:37 Loqi gRegorLove: tantek left you a message on 5/7 at 1:26pm: why are you display:none'ing your Twitter link on gregorlove.com? I don't think that affects IndieAuth but it might? aaronpk - gregorlove.com appears to be setup with rel-me to @gRegorLove but isn't working. Take a look? # 18:37 tantek did you get indieauth sign-in working? or still same problem? # 18:38 gRegorLove I was just revisiting to get your response. Let me try again. I have it display: none because I don't want to add links to the home page, if possible. # 18:39 gRegorLove It was finding the link to my Twitter fine, but appeared to not be finding the link back on my twitter profile, but it is there. :) # 18:39 aaronpk ah the problem is twitter.com is wrapping your link in a t.co # 18:41 barnabywalters gRegorLove: I noticed you have a github account — github are a really solid auth provider # 18:43 gRegorLove Looking forward to getting involved more. I use Nucleus CMS and I plan to make a plugin for webmentions. # 18:51 gRegorLove I don't see a link to my user page on the wiki, but I presume it's User:Gregorlove.com ? shaners joined the channel
# 19:08 shaners for example, why can i only sign in from the homepage # 19:08 aaronpk there's a "log in" button in the footer of every page # 19:10 shaners why does every section BUT the "this article is a stub..." have an [edit] link? # 19:10 shaners i mean, i found the Edit Page link in the footer, but just seems weird # 19:15 shaners tantek aaronpk et al: has anyone ever investigated gollum as a potential replacement for mediawiki powered wikis? # 19:16 tantek shaners - every complaint you've made is about the presentation/layout - not about the engine # 19:16 tantek so it's a nonsequitor to go from presentational issues -> suggesting backend change # 19:16 tantek I too would prefer the edit/history links at the top the way mediawiki installs normally do it # 19:17 shaners totally, non-sequitur. i'm sorry, i was unclear. i just remembered gollum while thinking about wiki stuffs. # 19:17 shaners not suggesting a switch. just asking about any experience with it. # 19:18 gRegorLove I put Nucleus under "experimental" because as far as Indie Web it is. As a blogging engine, though, it's pretty mature. # 19:19 shaners aaronpk: your embedded content post looks good. great job on that. # 19:19 tantek aaronpk - interesting that we've taken different approaches to embedded content # 19:19 tantek you're putting embedded content *after* the post footer, in a block by itself # 19:20 tantek whereas in my notes, embedded content auto-embeds inline where it's mentioned # 19:20 tantek I do it inline because I think that works/reads/views better when you have *multiple* embeds # 19:21 aaronpk you also remove the visible URL and replace it with the image, right? # 19:21 tantek aaronpk - right - a visible .jpg/.png/.gif URL is just visual noise. I do hyperlink the image to the original URL # 19:21 tantek also - try resizing the window on that note post ;) # 19:23 aaronpk although how do you handle making the mf2 representation display the URL instead of the <img> tag? # 19:24 aaronpk the mf2-parsed page doesn't have the image URL, it just omits that part of the note # 19:24 tantek oh that's an interesting issue. I'll have to think about that. # 19:25 tantek I wonder if p-* parsing should extract the "alt" attributes from images # 19:26 aaronpk and since we're all pretty much standardising on plaintext for notes, the plaintext version should be something I can copy to my site as plaintext and keep the full resolution text # 19:27 tantek so like for example when you're pulling it in for a reply post # 19:28 tantek if we parsed nested <img> tags' alt (and then src) attributes for p-* elements, that could work # 19:28 tantek then if you explicitly didn't want any img content showing up you could just set its alt="" # 19:29 tantek barnabywalters how hard would it be to add this to the php-mf2 parser: # 19:30 tantek in addition to parsing out the nested plain text, if you encounter any <img> elements, replace them with their alt attribute text, or lack an alt attribute, replace them with their src attribute. # 19:30 Loqi tantek meant to say: in addition to parsing out the nested plain text, if you encounter any <img> elements, replace them with their alt attribute text, or lacking an alt attribute, replace them with their src attribute. # 19:30 tantek we don't need to do that for video/audio btw because they can already contain fallback text content # 19:31 tantek if that seems reasonable, I'll add it to the microformats2 parsing spec # 19:31 barnabywalters tantek: shouldn’t be too tricky — actually there are a couple of security points about e- vs p- content I need to bring up shaners joined the channel
# 19:34 tantek let me know if that makes sense, and if so, hopefully we can get it added to php-mf2. # 19:35 aaronpk the embed code for gist is <script src="https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/44fffbf6c61e4348e08f.js"></script> so I think you could put the URL inside the script tag for fallback and mf2 parsing # 19:35 tantek scripts seem more dangerous to parse anything out of # 19:36 tantek and in general I'd prefer to not depend on *anything* inside of a script for moving content around # 19:38 barnabywalters the potential security issue I mentioned was something I noticed when implementing note reply contexts # 19:38 aaronpk yea, that's why I would only ever copy over plaintext from other peoples' posts # 19:38 tantek aaronpk - do you have documentation of the URL patterns you're searching for and how you're converting them to embed codes? # 19:39 aaronpk tantek: I should probably add that to the post I just wrote # 19:39 barnabywalters and I’m html-encoding the result of that run in order to preserve any <, > & characters in the plaintext # 19:40 aaronpk I am, for soundcloud since that's the only way they support finding the embed code tantek joined the channel
# 19:52 tantek oembed seems like extra work to support (as a publisher) when you can simply publish rich h-entry markup instead # 19:53 tantek aaronpk, perhaps we need oembed.me that converts sites with oembed to a simple h-entry page for consuming # 19:55 tantek aaronpk, re: your auto-embedding post, I'm looking forward to see what you do with this: "My next step is to parse arbitrary URLs looking for an h-entry, and display a mini preview of the content linked to." # 19:55 tantek ideally implementing that should replace any need to support consuming oembed at all # 20:02 tantek and if we build conventions for parsing / previewing / embedding like that # 20:02 tantek we can point to those to get others to publish h-entry as well # 20:03 tantek the embedding/previewing use-case, plus the commenting use-case, make a good case overall for doing it # 20:03 tantek shouldn't be too difficult to overtake oembed in terms of deployment/support xtof joined the channel
# 20:19 tantek aaronpk, you were asking what types of links that I auto-embed # 20:20 tantek Falcon uses the #cassis.js function auto_link() to do all its auto embedding # 20:21 tantek custom code for vimeo.com and youtube.com embeds # 20:21 tantek oh and of course .jpeg, .jpg, .png, .gif image embeds # 20:22 tantek @-name references get linked and marked up with a "h-x-username" class name on the hyperlink - thus giving the client the option to do more things with it (as I think Taproot does) fmarier joined the channel
# 20:24 tantek.com edited /p3k (+0) "/* Features */ p3k embeds are in the footer, e.g. after the datetime published stamp, rather than inline with the content of the note" (
view diff )
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# 21:53 aaronpk tantek: I'm going to be in SF again this weekend, would be fun to meet up again on Sunday if you're around! # 21:53 tantek oh awesome! racking up those frequent flier miles :) jedahan and xtof joined the channel
# 23:26 bret Also, how do I know if my PuSH atom feed works # 23:27 tantek bret - you can try to subscribe to your homepage from a Status.net account # 23:27 aaronpk bret: heh, PuSH is kind of hard to test. I've had the best luck by using a google talk bot that IMs you when it receives a PuSH mention # 23:27 tantek if your PuSH feed works, you'll see updates appear in real time on your status.net account # 23:27 bret i also just found an error on my atom feed # 23:28 bret my www redirect is still broken from my switch to a TLD last night # 23:28 tommorris bret: yeah, I have experience with FOAF. but can't help this evening as it's rapidly approaching 1am London time and I need sleep. ;) # 23:28 aaronpk sounds like I should make atom.me to convert h-entry feed to an atom feed :) # 23:29 tommorris bret: email tom@tommorris.org and I can help you with FOAF stuff asynchronously or poke me about it tomorrow sometime. # 23:29 bret actually wait nm no error.. grrrrr why no worky # 23:29 tommorris bret: or you can ask in #swig - that's the hang out of the upper-case Sem Web types # 23:30 tommorris also, one observation: I always wanted to know what it was like to develop an AOL app. Over the last week, I managed to replicate what it must have been like by building a facebook app. singpolyma and bnvk joined the channel
reidab oh, nevermind, I see what you mean
@sandeepshetty One advantage of #indieweb and building for yourself is that you can make audacious plans to replace Markdown :) https://github.com/converspace/flowt
aaronpk Just re-read the SWAT0 test from federated social web summit in 2010, and am surprised at how service-centric it was http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/federatedsocialweb/wiki/SWAT0
bret aaronpk, there are some nice benafits to it as well compared to some other identity authorities: http://identity.mozilla.com/post/46374271364/persona-is-distributed-today
Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/05/09/1/experimenting-with-auto-embedding-content linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/p3k (pingback)
barnabywalters pdurbin: ooh, I hadn’t come across elastic search before. that looks great
pdurbin barnabywalters: it comes up with some frequency in #crimsonfu: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/search.pl?channel=crimsonfu&q=elasticsearch
xtof elf-pavlik : thanks for welcoming on http://labs.ouishare.net/ do you think we could support IndieAuth on wagn https://www.flickr.com/photos/christopheducamp/8722019279/in/photostream
tantek.com edited /ActivityStreams (+353) "/* Use with microformats2 */ see also microformats activity object brainstorm, thinking about h-as-reply h-as-rsvp" (view diff)
gRegorLove Thanks.
gregorlove.com created /User:Gregorlove.com (+126) "Created page with "= gRegor Morrill = * Homepage: [http://gRegorLove.com gRegorLove.com] * Twitter: [https://twitter.com/gRegorLove @gRegorLove]"" (view diff)
tantek shaners - please feel free to contribute items to: http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/#Suggestions