#indiewebcamp 2013-05-13

2013-05-13 UTC
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aaronparecki.com edited /principles (+19) "/* See Also */ link to [[antipatterns]]" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /hashtags (+835) "add Silo support section, note single content-type vs. composite post-type silo tag aggregation pages" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /tag (+18) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /tags (+735) "stub with a few definitions and see alsos" (view diff)
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@MyDataLabs Prop. dîner #s20 w/ @glenux cc @btincq @ouisharelabs #jerrycan #barcamp #indieweb
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@OuiShareLabs RT @MyDataLabs: Prop. dîner #s20 w/ @glenux cc @btincq @ouisharelabs #jerrycan #barcamp #indieweb
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@maxlath On Silos vs an Open Social Web {en} http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web {fr} http://christopheducamp.com/wiki/%C3%80_propos_des_silos_vs_un_Web_Social_Ouvert #indieweb cc @OuiShareLabs
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@OuiShareLabs RT @maxlath: On Silos vs an Open Social Web {en} http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web {fr} http://christopheducamp.com/wiki/%C3%80_propos_des_silos_vs_un_Web_Social_Ouvert #indieweb cc @OuiShareLabs
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christopheducamp.com created /Instagram-fr (+568) "[fr: sync'd translation]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /hashtags-fr (+1077) "[fr: sync'd translation]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /hashtags-fr (+0) "/* Marquage */ grammar" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /photo-fr (+23) "r." (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /photos-fr (+1146) "[fr: sync'd translation]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /in-reply-to-fr (-3) "''Page démarrée sur [[in-reply-to]]''" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk created /monoculture (+851) "Created page with "{{stub}} Monoculture refers to one piece of software dominating (or trying to dominate) it’s field, often by being limited to communicating with other instances of the same co..."" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1409/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture (pingback)
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barnabywalters !tell tantek, aaronpk I started http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture but but have sneaky feeling a) not well written and b) the same topics are covered elsewhere — would appreciate a look over :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tommorris barnabywalters: monoculture is a great idea for a page
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barnabywalters tommorris: it’s something I remember discussing here before, but I wanted a page to link to when writing that note about Ghost promoting monoculture
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barnabywalters it just needs some tidying up
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tommorris Ghost?
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barnabywalters http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1409/
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tommorris oh, tryghost.org
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barnabywalters tommorris: btw, RE your writing about yourself blog post: wow
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tommorris thanks.
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tommorris I just know far too many interesting lovely people who should be writing about themselves - because they have interesting things to say - but don't because of fear.
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barnabywalters I might point my parents towards that — now I’m in iceland my parents read my notes, and my mum was trying to censor me remotely, saying it’s my “professional voice online”. I wasn’t sure how to rreply
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barnabywalters s/rreply/reply
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: I might point my parents towards that — now I’m in iceland my parents read my notes, and my mum was trying to censor me remotely, saying it’s my “professional voice online”. I wasn’t sure how to reply
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tommorris.org edited /monoculture (+397) "expanding" (view diff)
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barnabywalters ^ ooh, good point
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Loqi tantek: barnabywalters left you a message 2 hours, 12 minutes ago: aaronpk I started http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture but but have sneaky feeling a) not well written and b) the same topics are covered elsewhere — would appreciate a look over :)
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tantek.com edited /antipatterns (+20) "link to main monoculture article" (view diff)
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barnabywalters ah! I knew we had documented it somewhere
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tantek.com edited /monoculture (+1893) "add information from antipattern page, more links, re-order: description, examples, disadvantages, avoiding, antidotes, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /antipattern (+26) "r" (view diff)
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tantek barnabywalters - always good to document more and additional perspectives
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tantek we can integrate and grow
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tantek.com created /indiemark (+23) "r" (view diff)
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tommorris so, do we want to have a page on the wiki listing services you can use to track where the stuff you write is being posted?
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tommorris because I just discovered http://www.reddit.com/search.xml?q=url%3Atommorris.org&sort=new&restrict_sr=off&t=all - RSS feed of tommorris.org stuff posted on Reddit
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barnabywalters tommorris: do we already have an aggregation page?
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barnabywalters if not we probably should
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tommorris you can substitute .json in place of .xml if you prefer. :)
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tantek.com edited /IndieMark (+917) "braindump a few more ideas based on recent progress in indieweb implementations, flatten lists a bit" (view diff)
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tantek tommorris - maybe on a search page?
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tommorris.org created /aggregation (+660) "let's start this - if it's not the right name, we can move it" (view diff)
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tommorris tantek: popped it up there. feel free to shunt it around.
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tantek makes sense - I don't have any better ideas
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tommorris so, I was thinking today about how to post to Google Plus. The conclusion I'm coming to is hilarious: PhantomJS and GhostDriver
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tommorris Yeah. Google's commitment to openness is making it so I have to use a fake WebKit browser to artificially simulate user interaction to post to G+
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barnabywalters tommorris: lol, that’s amazing
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tommorris if you can post to G+ via an API, it's certainly something they are making cryptic
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barnabywalters tommorris: AFAIK the API is completely read only at the moment
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barnabywalters they have several different URL API-type UIs
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barnabywalters which might make manual POSSE bearable
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@natevw Ooh, just noticed #IndieWebCamp will be hear before I realize it too. Hope I can make that again this year, was a great gathering last time!
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tantek barnabywalters, tommorris - I think Will Norris figured out a way to cross-post to G+ via a +1 button
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barnabywalters tantek: oh cool, is it documented anywhere?
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tantek I think he blogged about it?
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tantek not sure if it is worth it though?
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tantek I find fewer and fewer people paying any attention to G+
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barnabywalters tantek: quick search doesn’t find anything
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tantek the whole point of POSSE is to reach your friend where they read stuff, and if you don't have any friends paying attention to G+, then what's the point of crossposting there?
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tantek oh wow he left G+! https://willnorris.com/about
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tantek https://willnorris.com/2011/09/outsourcing-comments-to-google
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tommorris I have a small number of friends who like G+. amazingly, not all of them are Google employees.
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tantek yeah I think that's it
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tantek https://github.com/willnorris/wordpress-snowflake
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tantek ok I'm off IRC for a bit while I go jump on the train. back in a bit.
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tantek barnabywalters, take a look at Will's post & plugin and let us know what you think
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tantek back
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tantek oh, one exception - G+ event posts seem to garner attention
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tantek so perhaps G+ might make a decent event POSSE destination
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tantek but I don't think the +1 button will syndicate an event from your site to G+
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tantek so we need an API or some hack to create a G+ event
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aaronparecki.com edited /Falcon (+142) "/* Working On */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieAuth (+119) "/* To do */ Will Norris's two factor auth post" (view diff)
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tantek thanks aaronpk :)
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tantek does anyone put location information in their notes?
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_aaronpk raises his hand
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josephboyle1 Is rel=me broken on Twitter? It's giving me a t.co url and only putting my site url in title.
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aaronpk it just did that to mine too :(
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aaronpk tantek's is still not t.co'd
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josephboyle1 interesting. and I guess Facebook is still broken? G+, Github, and of course geoloqi working for me - that is all the providers, right?
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aaronpk and now app.net!
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tantek.com edited /Google (+27) "create link to apparent canonical unsearchable spelling of Google+" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Google+ (+905) "stub with some POSSE information" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Google+ (+537) "/* POSSE */ a few more notes" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - re: location information in your notes, how do you publish it? do you have example URLs?
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tantek and do you ever publish location information in your @-replies or reply posts in general? (again, URLs of examples?)
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aaronpk currently I publish just the city name on my notes and replies http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/05/12/1/ http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/05/11/2/
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tantek aaronpk, oh dear: <abbr class="geo">San Francisco, CA, USA</abbr>
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aaronpk :(
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aaronpk we had this discussion already :)
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tantek but that's not just not good - it's bad - it's not a "geo"
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tantek how about just <span class="p-location">San Francisco, CA, USA</span> for now?
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tantek because you don't have access to the individual components right?
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tommorris I have some geo posts.
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aaronpk i can do that
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tantek URLs?
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tantek aaronpk - cool, that way at least we won't be misleading anyone about "geo" markup
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tommorris tommorris.org/posts/8245
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aaronpk the idea was to put lat/lng in there, but I backed off on that plan until I think it through better
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tantek so when you do put lat/long, then we can discuss how to geo mark it up ;)
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aaronpk p-location or p-locality?
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tantek content first, markup second
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tantek p-location e.g. same as the property from h-event
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tantek p-locality is for the city
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tantek meaning the location where you posted it
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aaronpk oh yea ok
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tantek tommorris, do you have access to the individual location components in "Congress House, Great Russell Street, London" or do you get that from a service as an opaque string?
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tantek and while your (tommorris) use of "geo" will "work", it's unfortunately still a (known) abuse of the abbr title
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tantek (not really a listenable title value)
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tantek here's a mod with the data element instead
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tantek <data class="p-geo" value="51.51738;-0.12833"> … </data>
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tantek (assuming you're able to use fancy HTML5 elements since you're already using <article>)
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tantek aaronpk - let me know when to reload :)
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tommorris tantek: Nominatim, the service I use, returns an XML/JSON blob with address parts.
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tommorris tantek: I'll switch it over to data.
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tantek tommorris if you receive the address parts separately, the you can mark them up hopefully with adr properties
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tantek cool
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tantek or h-card
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barnabywalters tantek: here are my notes with geo: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes?tagged=location
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tantek tommorris e.g. <span class="h-card"><span class="p-name p-org">Congress House</span>, <span class="p-street-address">Great Russell Street</span>, <span class="p-locality">London</span></span>
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tommorris tantek: will do at some point. the data fix was <5m, so I've done it now. will deploy when I'm on a stable connection
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tantek tommorris - cool
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barnabywalters I too use nominatim and convert the nominatim values to structured h-adr. I’m not overly happy with the translation though
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barnabywalters part of moving to flat file storage will involve taking location info out of machine tags and structuring it better
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tantek barnabywalters - I don't see any location information on those posts
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tantek oh on the permalinks only
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tantek whoa - nice markup!
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tantek that's a neat pattern
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tantek we should capture that on the wiki
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Loqi yea
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/location
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tantek disembarking train - bbiab
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tommorris nominatim needs a lot of improvement. it's nice that it is open data: it means if it is broken you can fix it. but it's still a long way from perfect.
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barnabywalters tommorris: how does one contribute to it? by adding data to OSM or by working on the nominatim code?
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tommorris barnabywalters: both. I mostly do it by finding things that are broken in OSM when I checkin.
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tantek Or I'll just lurk from my iPod for a bit.
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barnabywalters tommorris: I often add address info to POIs and areas, I’m assuming that has some effect…?
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tommorris I was in Retro Bar, a gay bar in The Strand. I checked in and Nominatim said I was in Chinatown. which meant that it was obviously going to it as the suburb marker. but The Strand isn't in Chinatown
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tommorris so, I go in and edit Chinatown from being a node (Nominatim was using it as the suburb because it was the nearest suburb marker) and restrict the area to just the area around Gerrard St
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tommorris it needs local knowledge.
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tommorris also, GeoNames has http://www.geonames.org/maps/osm-reverse-geocoder.html#findNearbyPOIsOSM - I like!
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barnabywalters is that potentially of use for nearby venues to check in to?
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barnabywalters I’ve done a whole load of UI brainstorming on note posting UIs recently, focusing on location+checkin stuff
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aaronpk oh! would love to see it!
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barnabywalters it’s on github at the moment:
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barnabywalters https://github.com/Taproot/design/tree/master/note-ui
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aaronpk oh great!
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aaronpk will check it out
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barnabywalters specifically, the ones entitled note-post-x
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barnabywalters the format is A4 pages split into three columns — state, UI and annotations
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barnabywalters unfortunately the scanner chopped some of the edges off but I don’t think too much was lost
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barnabywalters there are some more in my notebook which I’ll draw up larger tonight, including venue page layout
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shaners barnabywalters: what is the "live" checkbox do?
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barnabywalters briansuda and I also did some brainstorming of route UI (e.g. “I just walked up this mountain, here’s the route w/ speed+elevation data”)
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shaners barnabywalters: what DOES the "live" checkbox do?
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barnabywalters shaners: where?
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shaners https://github.com/Taproot/design/blob/master/note-ui/note-saved-ui.png
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barnabywalters ah! the checkbox is associated with the Location label, the live link goes to the note permalink
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barnabywalters at the moment I’m not redirecting on success as quite often I want to correct some markup
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barnabywalters handy for debug
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cyg^ hi
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barnabywalters greetings cyg^!
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shaners barnabywalters: ah. i see.thx.
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aaronpk tantek: updated markup :)
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aaronparecki.com edited /POSSE (+140) "/* Facebook */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com created /Template:brainstorming (+123) "Created page with "<div style="background-color: #fffdee" (view diff)
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Loqi padding: 6px;">This page is a collection of brainstorming notes on this topic.</div>"
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tantek shaners - in reading iamshane.com I noticed that the permalink for " @swindsor @steveklabnik Great! " is http://iamshane.com/notes/2013/4/21/D which displays the next note instead " RT @hirodusk: Unofficial flag for Terra: http://www.earthflag.eu/"
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tantek also - how do you decide what to post on iamshane.com and POSSE to Twitter, vs. just posting on Twitter?
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cyg^ I have a screen printing business and like printing for conferences. Did you guys figure out shirts for indiewebcamp yet for the event in Oregon?
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cyg^ if not, I'd love to discuss with someone
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aaronpk cyg^: hey! we haven't even had shirts in the past, but would be a fun idea!
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cyg^ oh hey aaronpk
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cyg^ I've done shirts for BarCamp Philly a lot
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cyg^ and ixDA
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cyg^ how big is your event? Do you get a lot of people?
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aaronpk about 30-50
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cyg^ We have a nice price break at 48 pieces. Do you have a lot of volunteers too, or does that include volunteers?
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aaronparecki.com created /POSSE_to_Facebook (+1173) "Created page with "{{brainstorming}} == Examples of syndicating notes to Facebook == These examples were created with the [https://developers.facebook.com/docs/reference/api/publishing/ Facebook ..."" (view diff)
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cyg^ BarCamp used sponsors to pay for the shirts, then gave them away
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aaronpk that includes volunteers
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aaronpk I think we would need someone to step up and volunteer to do a fun shirt design before we could consider having shirts :)
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cyg^ sure that would make sense
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cyg^ I'm not much of a designer myself
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cyg^ at all
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aaronparecki.com edited /POSSE_to_Facebook (+573) (view diff)
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aaronpk tantek: just dumped some notes and screenshots here, would be interested to get your thoughts on it http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE_to_Facebook
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tantek ooh!
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aaronpk the weird stripey lines are because I authorized the app to post "only visible to me"
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tommorris I need to sort out POSSE to Facebook. I was doing facebook app dev last week and am not wild about doing more for few days. ;)
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tommorris it's pretty easy. OG API is pretty straightforward
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aaronpk it's incredibly straightforward
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barnabywalters I just POSSE there manually using their post to feed URL api
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barnabywalters sure it’s easy, but SO SLOW
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aaronpk barnabywalters: what is that? and can you add that as an option to the page I just made wtih screenshots?
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Loqi that is what my approach boils down to
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aaronpk Loqi: you don't posse to facebook at all, shut up
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barnabywalters Loqi: seriously.
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barnabywalters aaronpk: I think I documented the endpoint on /webactions somewhere, I’ll add it to your new page
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aaronpk oh great ok
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josephboyle1 Conflict popped up - looking less likely I can make it to Indie Web Camp this year though not certain
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tantek.com edited /2013/Guest_List (+1) "/* Official Guest List */ sort" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, we were discussing the pattern of using an illustrative image with each blog post so it gets picked up in link-previews on link sharing sites/UIs like FB/Tw/G+ etc. Crystal's blog has some good examples: http://skinnywhitegirl.com/blog/
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tantek note how the summary image in the aggregate view is not necessarily the same as the image on the permalink
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tantek (or sometimes not even an image but a video - at the permalink)
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cyg^ aaronpk I don't get on IRC that much but my email is stuart@vacord.com and vacord.com is the screen printing site if you wanna talk more about shirts. I'll come back in next time I get on IRC tho
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cyg^ thanks y'all, have a nice evening
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tantek ooh shirts!
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tantek aaronpk, t-shirts? we could also do something like embroidered patches which people could choose to put on any particular item of clothing or bag or ...
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tantek (idea via skinny)
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aaronpk ooh embroidered patches would be cool
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aaronpk I think those are like $4 each
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tantek aaronpk - so $200 for 50
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tantek aaronpk - just checked out your updated location markup
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tantek looks like you're using class="geo p-location"
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tantek drop the "geo" until you're actually putting the lat/long in there (e.g. in a link to a map etc.)
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tantek just class="p-location" for now
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aaronpk the "geo" is what my CSS uses to style it
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aaronpk what's the mf2 markup for "geo"?
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tantek ah ouch - another instance of where using a microformat class for styling breaks things
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aaronpk exactly, i'm trying to move away from that
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tantek because it's an invalid geo (no lat long inside)
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/uf2#h-geo
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aaronpk i'm making a point of not including any CSS rules on the new *-* markup
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aaronpk so I'll implement h-geo once I have a lat/lng
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tantek any chance of dropping or renaming the "geo" until then?
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tantek and yeah, I've been using other class names for CSS hooks
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aaronpk I can probably change it to something else like "location"
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tantek and in general trying to figure out some kind of modular templating setup for Falcon
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tantek cool
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tantek otherwise with just a plain geo with no lat/long - it shows up as an error in Firefox with Operator
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