2013-05-14 UTC
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# 02:45 aaronpk I want to compile a playlist of songs, and when you view it, they show up with little "play" buttons using whatever music service you use (spotify, rdio, itunes, mp3s on disk, etc) caseorganic, spinnerin and b0bg0d joined the channel
# 03:24 tantek aaronpk - no my bio has been a set of tags for a while # 03:25 tantek so BTW, this is a good reason to use permashortcitations rather than permashortlinks # 03:25 aaronpk my twitter search code is not perfect. because i'm using the streaming API, I can only have one search stream active at a time, so I have to combine all my search t # 03:26 aaronpk so when a tweet comes in, it only sends it to one of my IRC channels for the first match. in this case it caught your mention of "aaronpk" first # 03:26 tantek (ttk.me t4Py1) is 14 characters. (ttk.me/t4Py1) is 24 characters # 03:26 tantek by using permashortcitations I get 10 more chars to tweet # 03:26 aaronpk yea, but if I had the permashortcitations in my tweet it would still have failed # 03:27 aaronpk I was doing the citations instead of links a while ago, and I kept confusing people. on multiple occasions I had people ask me what the heck was the thing at the en caseorganic, b0bg0d and tantek joined the channel
# 04:20 aaronpk pretty sure twitter is not counting characters in their tweets right tantek joined the channel
# 04:30 aaronpk my post was apparently 4 characters too long, even though when I manually count it it comes out to exactly 140 b0bg0d joined the channel
# 04:33 aaronpk oh because the placeholder links are wrong :( what # 04:35 aaronpk "Will t.co-wrapped links always be the same length? The maximum length of t.co URLs will change over time. Issue a request daily to GET help/configuration and examine the fields short_url_length and short_url_length_https to determine the current maximum length of wrapped URLs. We do not expect these values to change often." # 04:49 tantek it's http t.co that I'd be more worried about # 04:49 aaronpk the examples were where my error was! I assumed they were still 20/21, but they increased to 22/23! # 04:50 aaronpk "Always use the values in GET help/configuration for best results." # 04:51 tantek this? "short_url_length":22,"short_url_length_https":23 # 04:54 aaronpk and I didn't have time to look into it to figure out why, I assumed it was something wrong on my side with the char counter (it's kind of complex code) # 04:54 tantek hmm I did notice that my permashortcitations were getting ellipsed on retweets # 04:54 aaronpk it happened again just now with a 140-char tweet, so I figured I'd dig into it b0bg0d joined the channel
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# 05:32 tantek aaronpk - that's what I get for crediting you :P (re: "caught your mention of "aaronpk" first") # 05:33 aaronpk yes I should fix that, but the cron job comes along and cleans up missing tweets so it's not that broken, just a bit delayed # 05:33 tantek aaronpk re: "people ask me what the heck was the thing at the end of my tweet" -> FAQ ;) # 05:33 aaronpk I just don't want to confuse people in the first place though # 05:33 tantek the lack of a visually noisy link that doesn't add any more content is a good thing # 05:34 tantek the link to apparently duplicate content is more confusing # 05:34 tantek you must have more folks being confused than me # 05:34 aaronpk I think (domain.com xxx) is more visually noisy than (domain.com/xxx) because people don't know what it is with the space in between, but people recognize a link. less to think about # 05:35 aaronpk then they have to decide whether to click it or not # 05:35 aaronpk and my convention is parens when it's not adding content, ellipses and no parens when there is more content # 05:35 aaronpk I haven't heard any complaints about this approach so far # 05:41 tantek I tried that convention (parens when it's not adding content, ellipses and no parens when there is more content) and people still complained a lot # 05:41 tantek the problem was that the presence of the link was/is too much temptation for people not to click on # 05:41 tantek and then they get disappointed that there is nothing new # 05:42 tantek because people don't read ".me" as much as a "site" as they do a ".com" # 05:43 aaronpk icann should register ex.me as a redirect to example.com # 05:45 aaronpk hey that's a good name for a blogging service... "otherwords.com" # 05:50 tantek where did we put the stuff about checking your first/second degree potentially for automatically accepting comments via webmention? # 05:52 aaronpk I think we may have only discussed it in IRC in passing # 05:58 tantek I'd rather hardcode than worry about coding "request this endpoint when they are loaded, but no more than once a day" sheesh fmarier joined the channel
# 06:03 aaronpk I was trying to imagine writing that code, guess I could store the response to the API call in a file and check the modified date # 06:05 tantek updating a constant every few years > maintaining storage code # 06:08 aaronpk ooh apparently i'm not un-shortening links in my reply context # 06:09 aaronpk do you like the careful choice of the word before the ellipsis? # 06:11 aaronpk I try to write tweets that are getting shorter to encourage people to click the link by the text that precedes it # 06:11 Loqi aaronpk meant to say: I try to write tweets that are being shortened to encourage people to click the link by the text that precedes it # 06:11 Loqi aaronpk meant to say: s/getting shorter/will be shortened # 06:13 aaronpk "if I know the text of my tweet will be shortened, I try to write it in a way that encourages people to click the link after the ellipses by ending with an 'action' or 'leading' word" # 06:18 tantek have you thought about chaining your @-mentions at the start of a reply so it reaches everyone in the thread? # 06:18 tantek Twitter does that automatically when you click the Reply button/link # 06:18 aaronpk I think I would prefer to do that by keeping @mentioned like I keep #hashtags # 06:19 aaronpk because in this case I was replying to just @benward, and wanted you to still be on the thread # 06:19 aaronpk in @benward's case he actually was replying to both of us # 06:19 tantek sure - I think that works by just putting him first # 06:20 aaronpk I think it reads better if the secondary mention is after the sentence andreypopp, seyz, tantek, eschnou, b0bg0d, cweiske and friedcell joined the channel
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# 15:08 aaronpk i was having some trouble with the latest mf2 parser code! it seems there is a weird discrepancy between dependencies # 15:09 aaronpk it was trying to use a function in absolute-url-driver that didn't exist # 15:15 aaronpk yea it was really confusing the other day, I had to manually check out some version of the libraries cause what came down from composer didn't work # 15:19 barnabywalters mm, when composer packages depend on PHP extensions it can get a little hairy # 15:20 aaronpk I don't think it was a php extension thing, it was just trying to call a function in the webignition library # 15:20 barnabywalters hopefully eventually composer will be able to install extensions. PEAR isn’t too bad, but it’s not overly pleasent # 15:20 barnabywalters yeah, I think that was the fault of the url library’s dependencies not being strict enough # 15:21 barnabywalters but the newest version of the url library couldn’t be installed because of the lack of the i18n extension Loqi joined the channel
# 18:21 aaronpk to be fair, he probably didn't mean the main page andreypopp joined the channel
# 18:27 tantek stuff indiewebcamp participants are running on their own site # 18:27 tantek stuff at least some indieweb person is running on their own site # 18:28 tantek basically, unless someone is actually (self)dogfooding something, we shouldn't bother documenting it # 18:28 tantek the stuff that's overhyped out there (e.g. tent.io) # 18:28 tantek we should document if at least to create a search result for it # 18:29 tantek documenting anything more as "projects" just adds noise # 18:29 tantek I suppose if you want to document previous efforts at solving a particular problem that may be worth it on a page specific to that problem # 18:30 aaronpk if he's using it on his side then he should be able to log in and add it # 18:30 tantek maybe we should add some sort of "scope" or "what gets listed here" statement at the top of /projects # 18:31 tantek we could invite @haschek to join us here in IRC and ask him to explain why he thinks that plugin deserves to be on IWC.com eschnou, b0bg0d and fmarier joined the channel
# 21:03 aaronpk aw, my "brainstorming" template didn't last long :) guess that's a good thing tantek, spinnerin and b0bg0d joined the channel
# 21:17 tantek sorry aaronpk - might still be useful if/when we end up creating separate brainstorming pages # 21:17 tantek just wanted to capture that there are at least 3 of us that POSSE to Facebook using various indirect means. # 21:19 aaronpk LOL "tommorris does likewise, because he's lazy." # 21:31 aaronpk I think that's loqi's un-shortening code that turned it into the signin link andreypopp joined the channel
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# 22:04 aaronpk my question is where is the link back to the canonical version of that post on shaners' site? # 22:16 tantek I think he's being ironic? sharecropping about sharecropping # 22:17 aaronpk well yes but shouldn't it still have had a link back? # 22:17 tantek sharecropped content doesn't live anywhere else besides someone else's silo # 22:18 Loqi aaronpk meant to say: dedication to irony fmarier joined the channel
# 22:41 tantek Medium must be redirecting Loqi when it's not redirecting us # 22:43 tantek my guess is that there's some code Medium that's trying to cookie your URL retriever, and when it sees no previous cookie, it asks you to login first so it can connect your identity to a cookie # 22:43 tantek from that point on, as long as you're cookie'd, it doesn't need to ask you to login # 22:43 tantek because it knows that that cookie is associated with that identity # 22:44 aaronpk weird, calling the `unshorten` program directly returns the right result too # 22:44 aaronpk both on the server loqi's in as well as from my laptop # 22:45 tantek I was able to set the in-reply-to to shaners' tweet since I mention his username in my note content # 22:47 tantek ok, so you would say it's an abuse of in-reply-to then, because just a mention shouldn't be threaded. # 22:47 tantek I wanted to post it this way to ask this specific question # 22:47 tantek and have it be an example, regardless of what we decided it was (right or wrong) # 22:47 aaronpk I mean I see it a lot on Twitter, but I don't think it's "correct" # 22:48 tantek right, I wasn't sure, but since I *could* do it, I figured I would, and then we'd figure out its correctness later # 22:48 aaronpk reply / comment / reference <-- all have slightly different semantics to me # 22:48 tantek the only downside is a bit of threading noise on Twitter, and meh, it's ok to leave experimental dust in silo spaces. andreypopp joined the channel
# 22:49 tantek so I understand the difference between (reply/comment) and (reference/mention) # 22:49 tantek but what's *your* distinction between reply and comment? # 22:49 tantek (FWIW I think reference and mention are pretty much identical, not worth differentiating) # 22:50 tantek (unless we could say that "mention" is the superset term, and "reference" is a specific term, that is *not* a reply/comment) # 22:51 aaronpk i'm trying to find an example of something I would consider a comment # 22:52 tantek aaronpk - the distinction I put forth (for reply vs comment) a few days ago here on IRC is this # 22:52 tantek reply: something you've posted on your own site that is in-reply-to another post # 22:53 tantek comment: something that shows up underneath a post # 22:53 tantek thus the distinction is about *what* is at the URL of the page # 22:53 aaronpk ah interesting. so a comment may have been created as a reply on my own site, but it's not a comment unless it appears under the original post? # 22:53 tantek and "comments" are all the "replies" that have been aggregated underneath a post # 22:54 tantek a comment refers more to the syndication of it on another site # 22:54 tantek the syndication of it underneath the original post # 22:54 tantek on eshnou's site, your reply becomes a comment # 22:54 aaronpk ok I think the distinction I was looking for is that a comment may not be directed at the post author, but a reply always is # 22:54 tantek and his post permalink has a "comments" section where all such comments are listed # 22:55 tantek huh - that's an interesting distinction too - though I'm not sure how useful it is in conversation? # 22:55 tantek I put forth reply vs. comment as described above because then each speaks to a particular context # 22:55 aaronpk yea, and I'm also having a hard time finding an example, so may not be useful # 22:55 tantek e.g. you and I both now support replies on our site # 22:56 tantek ok cool - I need to look up on IRC where I brought this up before # 22:57 tantek wish there was an easy way to search our *recent* IRC logs # 22:57 tantek or at least search our IRC logs by time order # 22:58 tantek not only that - I only see one result which is obviously missing a lot # 22:58 aaronpk i *think* the PuSH to the appspot hub is still working... # 23:00 tantek I nominate aaronpk as our official IndieWeb Ambassador to the silo nation of App.net. # 23:01 tantek and all the little Silo Nations surrounding it # 23:01 tantek and we can nominate ambassadors from the Federation to each Silo Nation. spinnerin joined the channel
# 23:03 aaronpk or possibly India... not sure if larger geographically or by population would be more effective # 23:05 tantek we should pick "Social Web Map" rather than "Social Networking Map" to constrain the scope a bit more # 23:05 tantek (no need to entertain email, IRC, IM, etc. in this context) # 23:08 tantek to join the Federation, you have to successfully federate an indieweb comment onto eschnou's post # 23:10 tantek since Federation implies some degree of centralized control, of which we have none # 23:11 tantek (and I'm optimistically saying "we" here, since I've yet to federate a comment onto eschnou's post ;) ) # 23:11 aaronpk which is interesting that the original Federated Social Web Summit was called that # 23:16 tantek just outside the territorial lines of the IndieWeb Confederation are additional members of the broader IndieWeb Alliance - those that have openly dedicated their allegiance to the IndieWeb and all that it stands, are actively independent on the social web, but have yet to federate with the Confederation. # 23:17 tantek (every other IndieWeb creator, including myself, would likely be in that zone) # 23:18 tantek as we POSSE out to Silo Nations, we should put them on the map # 23:18 aaronpk i feel like people with an indieweb presence, especially those POSSEing to silo nations should have a stronger presence on the map than being just outside the territorial lines of the confederation # 23:18 tantek and the remaining active Silo Nations can be represented as islands outside that # 23:19 tantek finally, all the failed/disappeared silo nations can be represented by outlines underneath the dead web seas # 23:23 tantek on the inside: IndieWeb Confederation - those who have federated / are federating # 23:24 tantek just outside that (superset): The IndieWeb League - those who are POSSEing out to silo nations, but are not yet federating with those in the Confederation # 23:24 tantek just outside that (superset again): The IndieWeb Alliance - those that have openly dedicated their allegiance to the IndieWeb and all that it stands for, are actively independent on the social web, but are yet to POSSE, or dedicate at least one post type exclusively to POSSEing # 23:25 aaronpk the IndieWeb Alliance members can be all on their own little islands within the IndieWeb territory # 23:26 tantek then outside of those islands, we have the Silo nation islands # 23:26 tantek except - everyone inside the IndieWeb League who is successfully POSSEing out to them gets little land bridges to each Silo nation island destination # 23:27 tantek and then once again, outside the Silo nation islands, a broader set of disconnect silo nations that no one is POSSEing to # 23:27 tantek and then the dead web sea, with its submerged lost silo nations # 23:29 tantek and then we can update it for every IndieWebCamp fmarier joined the channel
# 23:42 tantek aaronpk - tonight, after you get in, let's do this at a bar # 23:43 tantek let's get this started. it'll take us a few iterations I'm sure to come up with a concept sketch # 23:43 tantek and we'll see if we can make it artistic enough or if we need an actual graphic illustrator ;) # 23:56 aaronpk let's do it! I should get into the city around 10pm if I take a cab from the airport! # 23:57 tantek ok! I have to run but if you want to post an event for that say ~22:15 at Toronado I can invite folks as I see them
aaronpk why does this come out to be 4 chars too long? http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7288/8737699244_f64873e0a6_o.png
@t Twitter bumped t.co lengths from 20/21 to 22/23 https://t.co/uGltwOPdWg Update your #indieweb #POSSE code! ht @aaronpk (ttk.me t4Py1)
@aaronpk @BenWard I didn't know that endpoint existed when t.co links launched! Also that seems... #indieweb http://t.co/JaCHN9gnJZ
tantek e.g. like Ben's reply did: https://twitter.com/BenWard/status/334180338907611136
@BenWard @t @aaronpk Don't hardcode. Update your implementations to derive t.co length from the /help/configuration endpoint: https://t.co/R7zvMD7la8
@_le_fil_ Tantek: Twitter bumped t.co lengths from 20/21 to 22/23 https://api.twitter.com/1/help/configuration.json Upda... http://tantek.com/2013/133/t1/indieweb-twitter-bumped-lengths-update-posse?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
christopheducamp.com edited /Twitter-fr (+333) "[fr: translation sync'd searchin a template for header : <cite class="h-cite u-url p-name" rel="canonical" >[[Twitter]]</cite>]" (view diff)
@haschek http://reclaim.fm/ is a new #IndieWeb #PESOS plugin for #Wordpress, pushed by @saschalobo, let's put it on http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page @t
barnabywalters aaronpk: good afternoon!
@e3cadre Have you selected video services for #indiewebcamp? @indiewebcamp Would love to bid! We do multi-camera feeds for confs.
tantek.com edited /POSSE_to_Facebook (+1076) "incorporate existing POSSE to Facebook hacks/implementations - this page is no longer just brainstorming" (view diff)
@veganstraightedge I was just invited to post on @medium. So, I published a post about sharecropping. ;)
@tenderlove @veganstraightedge I have to sign in to read it?
@raster RT @veganstraightedge: I was just invited to post on @medium. So, I published a post about sharecropping. ;)
@ahockley RT @t: brilliant #indieweb #irony: @veganstraightedge sharecropping on @Medium about #sharecropping: https://medium.com:443/m/signin?redirect=/indieweb-thoughts/9d0e36524dbf (ttk.me t4Pz1)