#indiewebcamp 2013-06-13

2013-06-13 UTC
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melvster tantek: a friend of mine is writing it .. it's for client side apps to talk to apis ... still quite early in the cycle
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melvster lol oh he's here
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melvster slvrbckt
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JonathanNeal hello
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onebigfluke.com edited /2013/Guest_List (+427) "/* Creators */ bslatkin attending" (view diff)
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@haxor I will be at http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page in Portland, June 22-23rd. Hope to see you there! #indieweb
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@benwerd I just had to make a difficult choice between two events, and #indiewebcamp won. No pressure.
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bret Is the IWC 2013 schedule going to be on the wiki or are we using some other website for that?
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sandeep.io edited /share (+1363) (view diff)
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sandeep.io edited /share (+101) "/* Examples */ split them into inappropriate and appropriate usage" (view diff)
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cweiske whoooo
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cweiske you can register content handlers, too
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cweiske not only protocol handlers
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cweiske which means I can make tt-rss handle rss+atom feeds
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sandeep.io edited /share (+60) "/* Criticism */ Should this page be renamed to Share Button/Action?" (view diff)
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sandeep.io edited /share (+295) "/* Sandeep Shetty: */ note about synonym for post or send and no share button" (view diff)
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sandeep.io edited /share (+62) "/* Criticism */" (view diff)
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@angenehmextrem Freie Alternativen für den üblichen #Softwarekram
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@angenehmextrem link vergessen http://prism-break.org/ #prism #alternativen #foss #ownyourdata
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sandeep.io edited /ActivityStreams (+56) "/* IndieWeb Support */" (view diff)
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sandeep.io edited /multiple-reply (+308) "/* Related */ Activity Streams supports multiple-reply" (view diff)
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sandeep.io edited /share (+285) "/* Re synonym for post or send */ share vs. post according the AS" (view diff)
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sandeep.io edited /share (+230) "/* Relevant definitions */" (view diff)
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sandeep.io edited /share (+35) "/* Appropriate (as per definition to tell others) */" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /code-of-conduct (+44) "adding nationality and transgender status" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /code-of-conduct (+44) "/* Respect */ expand slightly" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /code-of-conduct (+0) "/* Consequences */ exclusion tends to be a better term" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /code-of-conduct (+69) "grammar, respect includes asking when you're not sure, expulsion+exclusion" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /ActivityStreams (+25) "/* IndieWeb Support */ "can be mapped" is similar work, not an actual implementation" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2013/Guest_List (+5) "sort Brett, update counts" (view diff)
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JonathanNeal Have you guys seen a demo of jQuery does something like the old iGoogle, where a user drags a "handle" into a "placeholder" and it loads something? Maybe the handle is an app icon, and the placeholder is a column on the page, and it loads some data (HTML, CSS, JavaScript) associated with that handle into that placeholder.
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@benwerd @sandeepshetty Thanks, and me too ;) It'll be a little while. Looking forward to discussing some of the ideas at #indiewebcamp.
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@ehafen MT .@EffyVayena: Supreme Court Rules Human Genes May not Be Patented http://t.co/xB9EoWVBVj” #dttp #ownyourdata @SwissHealthBank
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julien51 aaronpk: have you been able to create the PuSH -> IRC thing we talked about the other day?
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aaronpk i haven't had time yet unfortunately
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@eschnou @mike3k Some exciting features coming in 1.3, especially #indieweb federation. I just pinged you a comment as an example.
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cweiske may h-entry and e-content be on the same element?
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@caseorganic MySpace deletes user blogs, then offers up vote to get their data back. http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/12/bring-the-blogs-back/ #indieweb
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bradfitz.com edited /2013/Guest_List (+349) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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@mpanighetti RT @caseorganic: MySpace deletes user blogs, then offers up vote to get their data back. http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/12/bring-the-blogs-back/ #indieweb
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erinjo aaronpk: IndieAuth isn't recognizing my rel=me links
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erinjo trying to sign in with erinjorichey.com
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barnabywalters erinjo: we’ve been having loads of problems with twitter t.co’ing peoples twitter links recently :(
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erinjo :-(
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barnabywalters yep, that’s what’s happened to you too. app.net works well, as does github
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barnabywalters and apparently google plus is now supported!
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erinjo IndieAuth isn't recognizing the rel=me on my app.net or flickr links either
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barnabywalters oh really? weird
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erinjo says there was an error verifying
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barnabywalters hm, it looks like app.net has removed rel=me. That is irritating
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barnabywalters I think your best bet for the moment is to add a github link
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barnabywalters I’ve never used flickr to try to log in so can’t really help there
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erinjo Ok, let me try Github
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barnabywalters I pinged app.net/dalton about rel=me, let’s see what they say
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erinjo Github worked! But not Flickr, Twitter, or ADN...
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barnabywalters I would try adding my domain to my flickr account to see if I can see what’s wrong with flickr login, but flickr won’t let me log in at all! Hmph.
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barnabywalters we really need to get a non-commercial auth provider working with indieauth — it looked like OSM was the best bet
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barnabywalters I think tommorris sent a pull request, not sure what happened to it
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barnabywalters gotta bake, bbiab
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cweiske openid is as non-commercial as it can get :/
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barnabywalters cweiske: agreed, we should look into reenabling it again
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barnabywalters IIRC the problem last time was that it worked inconsistently — but with the new service picker UI, that wouldn’t be such a problem as you could just switch to another service if openid wasn’t working
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barnabywalters the argument that other services are more reliable is, for the most part, no longer true :(
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erinjorichey.com edited /2013/Guest_List (+220) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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aaronpk what! app.net removed rel=me?
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barnabywalters aaronpk: so it would seem :(
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barnabywalters just got a response — they want me to email them. *sigh*
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erinjo aaronpk: yeah, and I'm not sure what's up with Flickr, but only Github worked for me
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aaronpk rwar
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aaronpk ok yea time to re-enable openID, since the service picker will make it easier to use something else when openid fails too
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barnabywalters aaronpk: yay!
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Loqi giggles
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barnabywalters aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 156 karma
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aaronpk hmm I still have rel=me
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aaronpk oh, you have to do the verified profile thing with app.net
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aaronpk http://blog.app.net/2013/04/29/announcing-domain-verification/
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barnabywalters oh, you have to do something special?
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aaronpk it's part of their domain verification thing
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barnabywalters fair enough
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erinjo I just verified with ADN. Indieauth works once verified
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aaronpk great
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cweiske aaronpk, we once talked about a separate pingback server that watches your atom feed and sends out pingbacks on your behalf. http://scott.yang.id.au/code/trackback-em-all/ does this, and now the first version of my own implementation is working
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cweiske http://git.cweiske.de/stapibas.git/
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cweiske it is also able to receive pingbacks and store them in a database
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cweiske next steps will be to actually let it put together the "comments" section html for each URL it receives pings for
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cweiske so that you can include it like disqus, or render it directly in the static html page of your blog
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tantek awesome that erinjo and bradfitz are going!
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tantek.com edited /2013/Guest_List (-1) "update counts - and there were 8 spots left" (view diff)
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sandeep.io edited /ActivityStreams (+213) "/* IndieWeb Support */ Posts on sandeep.io also respond to a .as & .mf2 extenstion" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /ActivityStreams (+166) "denote different categories of indieweb implementations of ActivityStreams, latest JSON spec vs. previous Atom XML" (view diff)
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sandeepshetty Came up with a way to map RSSB microformats to Activity Streams yesterday as a side-effect of trying to figure inconsistencies between the two models.
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sandeepshetty and while I was at it, I also server all posts in the mf2 output json
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sandeepshetty so I don't have to go to pin13.net every time :)
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JonathanNeal So, if example.com has 5 iframes running things from example-app.com, it looks like they can window.top['the other iframe reference'] into the other iframes running from example-app.com.
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sandeepshetty the inconsistencies between using the RSSB microformats and AS is very interesting... looking at the algo (http://www.sandeep.io/50) highlights the weird way objects needs to be interpreted depending n verb
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sandeepshetty tantek: the atom model for AS seems to introduce new elements for activity, right?
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tantek sandeepshetty - maybe? I don't have the AS spec memorized unfortunately (or fortunately, saving braincells for more useful things :) )
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sandeepshetty I started of trying to see how to implements AS in microformats and then just ended up mapping RSSB to it. Wondering if this can help in any way define AS microformats
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tantek I don't plan on doing much more work on my Atom AS implementation
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tantek I don't know of anyone consuming it and doing anything with it
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sandeepshetty pump.io and idno seem to be based around AS...
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tantek sandeepshetty - it's not clear there's any real need to define AS microformats - since nearly no one is publishing/consuming AS on the open web
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tantek sandeepshetty - where did you get that information? There's no documentation on the AS wiki about it
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sandeepshetty https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/blob/master/API.md
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tantek there's no real community around AS (just a google group of non-selfdogfooders)- I don't really expect much from it
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tantek for what purpose though?
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tantek anyway - without a defined usecase for any more thinking/work I'm pretty much losing interest in AS as any kind of spec/standard
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tantek it's only useful now for me for mining ideas from
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tantek hence: http://indiewebcamp.com/activitystreams#Indieweb_perspectives
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sandeepshetty "idno is based on Activity Streams, and every page is an API call" - http://werd.io/entry/51a80348bed7de270681896b/a-new-website-running-on-a-new-platform
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sandeepshetty I'm exploring it to see how the new stuff I'm doing with like, repost, etc fit it.
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tantek sandeepshetty - I think your UI/UX/presentation explorations are far more valuable than any AS API calls that anyone is supporting
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tantek you're doing far more interesting work, frankly.
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /Web_Action_URL_APIs (+248) "/* Web */ added newly discovered Facebook sharer URL API, noted that the feed dialog is still the only choice if you require a redirect" (view diff)
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sandeepshetty I was seeing if there was a better way to model the like, repost, stuff.. there is an asymmetry between marking up links with "in-reply-to" and verb likes "like" and "repost"
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tantek sandeepshetty - the verbs aspect of activity streams may have been too much complexity too soon.
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tantek this has been discussed: http://indiewebcamp.com/activitystreams#Verbs_vs_just_posts
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tantek I think we can do nearly everything without verbs
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tantek and for that matter - they also created too many object types without documenting evidence to justify them
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tantek e.g. on wiki pages with research etc.
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benwerd (Happened to be reading the IRC logs to see what was new and saw idno come up - to be clear, I'm using AS as a handy abstraction layer, not because I think anyone's reading it)
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tantek and no one is going to bother to dig through email archives
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tantek benwerd - perhaps you could add that to: http://indiewebcamp.com/activitystreams#Indieweb_perspectives
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benwerd Yeah, I've definitely got a few things to add to the wiki ;) I'm on the road right now but will spend some time on it before the week is out
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sandeepshetty benwerd: re handy abstraction: that's why I was exploring it as well
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sandeepshetty to figure out a good abstraction for what I'm doing...
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tantek thanks benwerd
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benwerd Right - eg, my Twitter / Facebook / etc links look for AS object types and the "post" verb (actually just "post"
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benwerd totally agree with the verbs discussion). So notes get posted a certain way, articles another way, images another, etc.
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benwerd It's a decent way to not tie integrations into my own plugins.
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benwerd The same could work importing / exporting from installation to installation, although I'm leaning towards more of an MF2 approach.
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tantek sandeepshetty - I think you're doing great with your per-post-type presentation differences approach
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sandeepshetty thanks... I've just had this feeling that it was too hackish :)
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sandeepshetty hence the exploration
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tantek I think it's great that you're figuring out in public how to do likes etc.
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tantek instead of faffing about on a mailing list. ahem. ;)
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sandeepshetty lol
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sandeepshetty benwerd: how are you modeling different post types and verb with mf2?
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sandeepshetty If you skip all the verbs and object types, the actor-verb-object of AS is pretty good to map social stuff
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tantek sandeepshetty - on the wiki: http://indiewebcamp.com/ActivityStreams#Use_with_microformats2
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tantek sandeepshetty - it's overkill
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tantek and not very useful for real world uses
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benwerd Right now I've only got the "post" verb - but I'm just using lightweight h-as-* markers
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sandeepshetty the actor-verb-object model you mena?
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tantek benwerd - when you get a chance, can you add that you're using h-as-* markers to http://indiewebcamp.com/ActivityStreams#Use_with_microformats2 ?
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tantek thanks
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benwerd yepyep
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tantek sandeepshetty - yes, actor-verb-model - in practice, not necessary
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benwerd will do :)
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tantek it's another overkill abstraction for the vast majority of use-cases (maybe all practical use cases?)
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tantek not unlike XML / RDF overkill / overly complex abstractions of the past