#indiewebcamp 2013-06-18
2013-06-18 UTC
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@xtof_fr #fr #bug pourquoi si peu de français sur #indiewebcamp ? (@ Place Marcel Aymé) [pic]: https://foursquare.com/xtof_fr/checkin/51bfa74d498e60fa85c03e05?s=ZStHTMFqB4ShC1JG4hsTqAEcrPs&ref=tw
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# 
JonathanNeal Do any of you folks know about Document vs HTMLDocument?
# @xtof_fr @ndebock pas grave on ira en train au prochain #indiewebcampuk. La #france est une #villefantome... https://twitter.com/xtof_fr/status/346797786248933376/photo/1
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@sandeepshetty "Unlike the third-person narrative of silo software, I'm hoping #indieweb software will ..." (http://www.sandeep.io/58)
# @sandeepshetty To allow for anonymous participation on the (decentralized) #indieweb, requires ... (http://www.sandeep.io/59)
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sandeepshetty !tell tommorris: Are you doing the "read more/less" stuff based on manually providing summaries or is the summary auto-extracted (based on length) from the content?
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@MyDataLabs .@AriVartan bienvenue sur #indieweb
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# @xtof_fr @nicolas2fr @egadenne #olark ouvert. á fermer durant #sieste pour accueillir @AriVartan - #patternLanguage : #WelcomeNewcomer #indieweb #fra
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tantek.com created /OAuth (+2631) "drafted a stub with definition and some Twitter / RelMeAuth / tmhOAuth troubleshooting notes in progress" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/06/17/2/indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/how-to-sponsor (pingback)
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@t @kevinmarks, Twitter didn't remove rel-me links, they tco'd all website URLs on profiles. :( http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth#Twitter_t.co (ttk.me t4Q_2)
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# Loqi [mention] http://tyudon.com/indieauth-indiewebcamp/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth (pingback)
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@gojeffcho @shawndrape I would've come at it more from an angle of encryption (methods, apps, etc.) and asking you about indieweb stuff.
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@shawndrape @gojeffcho admittedly my indieweb knowledge is limited. This upcoming weekend is indiewebcamp though so there should be interesting stuff.
# @gojeffcho @shawndrape Who cares? Nobody's gonna be listening. We could say that indieweb is an elephant on LSD.
# @sandeepshetty RT @t: Update: 4 days to #indiewebcamp
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@superfeedr We're excited and proud to be sponsoring the next #indiewebcamp http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page #rss #SubToMe
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@julien51 RT @superfeedr: We're excited and proud to be sponsoring the next #indiewebcamp http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page #rss #SubToMe
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@eschnou RT @superfeedr: We're excited and proud to be sponsoring the next #indiewebcamp http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page #rss #SubToMe
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# tantek.com edited /2013/Guest_List (+0) "/* Official Guest List */ bump count for kevinmarks" (view diff)
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# JonathanNeal hello
# JonathanNeal Too often I forget that attachEvent fires in reverse order as addEventListener.
# JonathanNeal Or rather, every great often, I don't like being reminded. How long until IE8 is dead?
# JonathanNeal How are you today?
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# JonathanNeal aaronpk: is the source for indieauth on github?
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aaronparecki.com edited /2013/Schedule (+138) "/* Friday, June 21, 2013 - IndieWebCamp Hosted Pre-Party */" (view diff)
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@benwerd Sad that I won't make the #indiewebcamp pre-party, but if you're in Portland you should go learn about the #indieweb: http://plancast.com/p/ic3e
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# tantek.com edited /2013/Schedule (+14) "/* Saturday, June 22, 2013 (Idea Sessions) */ fc" (view diff)
# tantek.com moved /Introductions to /2011/Introductions "this was a 2011 session - and notes from it!"
# aaronparecki.com edited /2013/Schedule (+119) "/* Friday, June 21, 2013 - IndieWebCamp Hosted Pre-Party */" (view diff)
# aaronparecki.com edited /2013/Schedule (-2) "/* Friday, June 21, 2013 - IndieWebCamp Hosted Pre-Party */" (view diff)
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# Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/06/18/1/indiewebcamp-microformats linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/Schedule (pingback)
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@schofeld Reading up on #indieweb comments http://indiewebcamp.com/comment
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@adactio @davewiner I concur. That’s where I think projects like http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page are so important: less sharecropping, more homesteading.
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# JonathanNeal Finding local jobs is pretty hard.
# JonathanNeal Orange, CA
# aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:mozilla-logo.png]]""
# scor JonathanNeal: I guess it depends on the type of jobs you are looking for
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# JonathanNeal web development, HTML, CSS, JS.
# JonathanNeal But local
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# scor JonathanNeal: yeah, you could easily find remote work, but local is harder… I have some colleagues who are based in the Orange County though, not sure if they work from home or share offices
# JonathanNeal hmm
# scor JonathanNeal: did you just move there? I'm told Google and lots of other tech companies are there
# scor in the Orange County
# JonathanNeal Maybe.
# JonathanNeal I never really asked or looked or marketed myself.
# JonathanNeal I'm actually really terrible at getting a job.
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# scor JonathanNeal: let me private message you the contact info of my colleague
# JonathanNeal Created a ton of cool stuff, I've been a part of a lot of great projects, but something doesn't translate.
# JonathanNeal I haven't asked my buddies to put out a good word for me, I've just tried doing it myself.
# JonathanNeal I'm probably just not doing the right thing, getting my name out the right way.
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# scor you gotta build a reputation for yourself, it helps - share code on github, contribute to open source project etc…..
# scor projects
# scor ho ho, hey melvster !
# scor melvster: oh, awesome!
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# scor melvster: I went to Portland, but I don't think I'll be at Prague
# scor are you going to Prague?
# scor melvster: ?? I thought you were in the UK
# scor if I had known that earlier!
# scor will you be in Prague in Sept?
# scor melvster: I've got to connect you with some other folks who will be there and who are interested in social
# scor we have call tomorrow morning actually, can you join us at around 2pm Paris time?
# scor melvster: https://groups.drupal.org/node/302198
# scor there are plenty of Drupal folks in Prague :)
# scor oh, those are everywhere too
# scor what's his name?
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# |-{0}-| might drop by on saturday
# |-{0}-| beware
# |-{0}-| brianloveswords: sup bro good job on openbadge ;)
# brianloveswords |-
{0}-|, thanks!# brianloveswords Wish I could be in Portland this week for the camp!
# brianloveswords (next week, I mean)
# brianloveswords Well, this weekend.
# brianloveswords TIME IS HARD.
# |-{0}-| literally
# |-{0}-| Loqi: time is hard or easy
# |-{0}-| Loqi: you're fired
# |-{0}-| aaronpk: u seen http://camlistore.org/ ?
# |-{0}-| bradfitz and some other googler are haxing it on 20% time
# |-{0}-| googlers
# 
barnabywalters I’ve tried out camlistore. looks interesting
# barnabywalters go looks like quite an interesting language
# barnabywalters after one small package management hiccup it was a breeze to compile and run the server
# barnabywalters with no previous go experience
# |-{0}-| just sayin: http://orbt.io/Pk9L.png
# |-{0}-| barnabywalters++
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# barnabywalters tommorris: indieweb commenting? an automatic profanity inserter to save typing? awesome map stuff?
# barnabywalters yay! great stuff :)
# sandeepshetty phew! finally done getting back previous functionality after the move to skeleton-based design from the default bootstrap one.
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: bootstrapless site looking good!
# barnabywalters tommorris: ooh nice
# barnabywalters any progress with OSM + indieauth?
# sandeepshetty thanks... going for a more blog-like/personal/first-person design :)
# sandeepshetty so do we have 3 implementations of comments so far?
# sandeepshetty eschnou, barnabywalters & aaronpk ?
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: looks that way, with tommorris’ coming soon by the sound of it
# sandeepshetty thanks
# sandeepshetty so that 3 with pingback and one with webmention?
# barnabywalters with the work I’m doing on php-mf2 and mf2-cleaner together with htmlpurifier I might have HTML comments enabled soon
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: I send webmention, will only take 30 mins to implement receiving
# barnabywalters so might do that tonight
# sandeepshetty nice!
# sandeepshetty and looking forward to HTML comments
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: I’m already htmlpurifing everything, I just need to sort out the p-* e-* thing
# barnabywalters which should actually be really straightforward
# sandeepshetty you mean htmlencode p-* and htmlpurify e-*?
# barnabywalters just add an option to html-encode any non e-* properties, bringing everything up to the same level of encoding
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: basically yes, although purifying everything just to be on the safe side
# sandeepshetty wouldn't purifying p-* remove stuff that was meant to be <code> ?
# sandeepshetty e.g. stuff in this post: http://www.sandeep.io/39
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: not likely. html purifier only strips suspect stuff like <script>, some CSS and XSS attacks
# sandeepshetty ah ok...
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: by htmlencoding p-* properties there shouldn’t be any problem with that anyway
# sandeepshetty so it might only affect posts talking about XSS exploits :)
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: again, they sould be htmlencoded — but perhaps :)
# sandeepshetty yeah... the order is imp.
# barnabywalters after seeing some of the madness here: http://htmlpurifier.org/live/smoketests/xssAttacks.php I am just going to purify everything ;)
# |-{0}-| i dare someone so make a purifier with a nazi reference
# |-{0}-| :P
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: purifying HTML feels like a cat and mouse game :)
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: I might be sticking to the same.. for now at least...
# barnabywalters aaronpk: yep, that’s tempting. But I’d like to give HTML comments a go, even if I whitelist the people who are allowed to leave them
# sandeepshetty whitelisting sounds interesting... but it's only as secure as the site of the person you've whitelisted
# |-{0}-| heh purify the whitelist
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: as secure as that site *and* htmlpurifier, which I’m fairly confident in
# barnabywalters I can always turn it off if things go bad
# sandeepshetty Though I'm guessing eventually we might have to moderate comments anyway considering it will attract spam if it takes off
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: see http://indiewebcamp.com/spam for some of my thoughts/brainstorming on spam prevention
# barnabywalters and please add/critique!
# sandeepshetty I like how for most things "there's a page for that" :)
# |-{0}-| proof of work algos are facisinating
# |-{0}-| like bitcoin et al.
# sandeepshetty there was interesting discussion on some list I'm on about charging for email :) and someone brought up hashcash
# Loqi [mention] http://notizblog.org/2013/06/18/the-rise-of-the-indieweb/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles (pingback)
# Loqi [mention] http://notizblog.org/2013/06/18/the-rise-of-the-indieweb/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (pingback)
# Loqi [mention] http://notizblog.org/2013/06/18/the-rise-of-the-indieweb/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/comments (pingback)
# 
@pfefferle The rise of the IndieWeb http://notizblog.org/2013/06/18/the-rise-of-the-indieweb/
# Loqi [mention] http://notizblog.org/2013/06/18/the-rise-of-the-indieweb/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth (pingback)
# Loqi [mention] http://notizblog.org/2013/06/18/the-rise-of-the-indieweb/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions (pingback)
# Loqi [mention] http://notizblog.org/2013/06/18/the-rise-of-the-indieweb/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/building-blocks (pingback)
# barnabywalters woah, links
# 
bret |-
{0}-|: https://bitmessage.org/wiki/Main_Page# |-{0}-| pingspam
# barnabywalters “Distributed Network for the poor”?!
# sandeepshetty the google translate version is a bit weird for that article
# |-{0}-| the thing about hashcash is i don't think the premise really works with modern computing
# |-{0}-| the goal is to make it computationally expensive for spammers, but they got mega botnets nowadays
# |-{0}-| so i doubt that will slow them down
# barnabywalters so you’d have to find a difficulty level which is not worth it for spammers, and require that
# barnabywalters but yes, that is a potential problem
# aaronparecki.com created /indieweb-implementations (+722) "created table of features implemented" (view diff)
# 
aaronpk let me know what you guys think of this http://indiewebcamp.com/indieweb-implementations
# barnabywalters nice
# 
@myobie RT @schofeld: Reading up on #indieweb comments http://indiewebcamp.com/comment
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# sandeepshetty So I'm confused about step 1 here: http://microformats.org/wiki/representative-hcard-parsing#representative_hCard_algorithm
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# sandeepshetty especially this: has a "url" property whose value is the url of the page (source)
# 
tommorris barnabywalters: http://tommorris.org/posts/8204 - we have liftoff
# |-{0}-| looks like theres a lot of brits in here
# barnabywalters is a brit in iceland
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /indieweb-implementations (+198) "Added reply context column, taproot results w/ example links" (view diff)
# sandeepshetty tommorris: Are you displaying HTML (e-*)?
# barnabywalters tommorris: yay!
# sandeepshetty nice!
# |-{0}-| ah
# |-{0}-| i was wondering that
# |-{0}-| persona login ftw
# barnabywalters looks at that the representative hcard parsing and sees… tommorris writing PHP? huh?
# |-{0}-| i like indie stuff but i am not a url man
# |-{0}-| i am an email adress lulz
# sandeepshetty so the h-card has to point to the page itself?
# barnabywalters back when x.class.php was still a thing… ah, I remember that too
# |-{0}-| tommorris: what does logging in allow me to do?
# |-{0}-| yay
# |-{0}-| look me at
# |-{0}-| at me
# |-{0}-| is dyslexia
# |-{0}-| lexic
# |-{0}-| goes back to his corner
# sandeepshetty and how do you apply a rel="author" if the only the u-photo is linked and not the name?
# 
@hackr RT @pfefferle: The rise of the IndieWeb http://notizblog.org/2013/06/18/the-rise-of-the-indieweb/
# |-{0}-| tommorris: im pretty sure eggs contain precursors for animal flesh
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# |-{0}-| but i guess that irrelevant if its a taste thing
# |-{0}-| thats
# barnabywalters huh, /homepage doesn’t exist
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# sandeepshetty Anyone want to take a stab at applying the "representative hCard algorithm" to sandeep.io?
# waterpigs.co.uk created /homepage (+955) "created with dump of stuff currently on homepages, things which could go on homepages" (view diff)
# barnabywalters some sketches I did yesterday: https://github.com/Taproot/design/blob/master/homepage-brainstorming.jpg
# barnabywalters on the subject of homepages and what to put on them
# barnabywalters these almost-well-known endpoint conventions are really interesting. /about and /help are extremely widely adopted
# barnabywalters feels almost like ./unix-command -h
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: Nice! (Re https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention) you saved me the trouble :)
# barnabywalters pfefferle: yeah, great to see a webmention plugin for WP
# sandeepshetty any plans for the mf2 support for incoming webmentions anytime soon?
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: Let me know if you need help with anything
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: Doesn't wordpress have it's own http client?
# barnabywalters pfefferle: I just created https://github.com/barnabywalters/php-mf-cleaner which might be handy for handling incoming mf2 data
# barnabywalters cool :)
# 
pfefferle i am also working on a plugin to implement webactions and other stuff https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-indieweb
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: I so needed that: https://github.com/barnabywalters/php-mf-cleaner
# sandeepshetty what does the array look like?
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# barnabywalters ooh, wonderful! on which note — sandeepshetty, aaronpk, any chance of some webactions on your sites? would make replying/bookmarking/liking etc *so* much easier :)
# sandeepshetty I haven't looked into it... if not too much work I can just put it in
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: it takes about 5 mins — basically just add <action do="reply" with="permalink">optional fallback</action>
# sandeepshetty that looks like a copy paste job... can you point me to examples
# barnabywalters http://waterpigs.co.uk/articles/web-action-toolbelt-guide/ covers setting up the extension but also markup
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: any of my note permalink pages e.g. http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1000
# barnabywalters if I’ve POSSEd the note in question to twitter I offer twitter URL API links as fallback
# barnabywalters also, the even more experimental <action inline do="" •••>, which loads the web action UI into an iframe for in-context replying
# barnabywalters which I think is in action on indienews
# barnabywalters but that takes a little more setup to work properly, easiest to stick with the plain <action> element for now
# barnabywalters and finally http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions#Brainstorming for more up-to-date verb usage
# sandeepshetty cool.. will look into and see if I can get it done by tomorrow...
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: in case you missed it, what does the php-mf-cleaner array look like?
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: actually cleaner is a terrible name. it was going to be a cleaner but ended up as a bunch of really useful little functions for extracting meaningful data out of mf2 JSON arrays. e.g. flatten microformats, find by property, find by callable, get published, etc
# barnabywalters in the future will do things like fill in missing event properties e.g. if dt-start and dt-duration are given it’ll calculate the dt-end for you
# barnabywalters getAuthor is the most useful one right now
# barnabywalters basically the idea is foolproof, hardy data extraction
# sandeepshetty that is awesome
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: thanks :) plus pure functions AND installable + autoloadable via composer, so best of both worlds :)
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: this is nice! http://pfefferle.github.io/openwebicons/
# barnabywalters pfefferle: oh nice, I hadn’t seen the updates
# barnabywalters we need a webmention logo :)
# barnabywalters pfefferle: how about adding the microformats logo?
# barnabywalters oh, already there
# barnabywalters my bad
# barnabywalters how are you generating the icon font?
# pfefferle inkscape ans http://www.fontsquirrel.com
# pfefferle here is a nice tutorial http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/2012/01/how-to-make-your-own-icon-webfont/
# barnabywalters I’m in the early stages of building a python+fontforge tool for automating complex ligature-overload icon fonts
# barnabywalters pfefferle: yeah, mainly for the one use case of creating an icon font for simple musical notation
# barnabywalters the idea is I give it a folder full of svg files, named according to a convention, and it spits out an icon font
# barnabywalters without having to add all the ligatures by hand
# barnabywalters pfefferle: currently I’m using abcjs for http://waterpigs.co.uk/music but it’s really heavy, and I wanted something simpler so I could include notation in my notes easily
# pfefferle do you know that one https://github.com/FontCustom/fontcustom ???
# barnabywalters pfefferle: ooh no I hadn’t — that looks ideal
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: you don't seem to be using use BarnabyWalters\Helpers\Helpers in php-mf-cleaner and I can't seem to find where Carbon\Carbon is coming from?
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: Carbon is required by Helpers, I was sure I was using it somewhere
# barnabywalters maybe just in the tests
# barnabywalters in which case helpers should be a dev dependency, and carbon a normal dependency
# sandeepshetty yeah helpers pull in a lot of stuff...
# sandeepshetty s/pull/pulls
# barnabywalters yes, more than I’d like
# sandeepshetty that would keep me from using it
# barnabywalters but most of it is dev dependencies
# barnabywalters it only actually requires cassis and carbon
# barnabywalters both of which are super useful
# pfefferle sandeepshetty: is coverspace the system that runs http://sandeep.io ???
# barnabywalters but I’ll look over mf-cleaner and see if I can make Helpers a dev dependency
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: yes... it's a lot of hacked up code at the moment :)
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: I’m using helpers once in mf2-cleaner, in getAuthor https://github.com/barnabywalters/php-mf-cleaner/blob/master/src/BarnabyWalters/Mf2/Functions.php#L156
# sandeepshetty Ah I didn't search for a static func
# barnabywalters at some point I’ll de-class helpers too, but not in the near future
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters++
# barnabywalters really it’s a dumping ground which needs to be organised into individual modules
# barnabywalters like, there’s a lot of tag-related stuff in there which is probably worthy of it’s own package by now
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: if you have any (code, security) suggestions for converspace, I'm all ears :)
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: yeah moving tag stuff into it's own package makes sense...
# sandeepshetty I want to move out all the from converspace as well.. especially the machines tags bit cause there isn't a good lig fr parsing them out there
# sandeepshetty *that *lib for
# barnabywalters +1 for extracting extremely small, intensively useful, contagiously reusable packages from codebases
# barnabywalters s/intensively/intensly
# barnabywalters goodnight all
# sandeepshetty yeah. I hope it's useful :) I've just hacked up stuff to get it up (only happy case code and not handling errors anywhere)
# sandeepshetty II'm going to call it a day as well. Later.
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# tantek.com edited /2013/Schedule (+16) "/* Saturday, June 22, 2013 (Idea Sessions) */ selfdogfood demos in particular" (view diff)
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# |-{0}-| bnvk: Þegar ég var eins árs fór ég til Bretlands
# |-{0}-| true story
# |-{0}-| Er einhver hér sem talar ensku?
# |-{0}-| Hvar er klósettið?
# |-{0}-| aaronpk: except im not using google translate
# |-{0}-| im copy and pasting phrases from a phrasebook.
# |-{0}-| google translate is bollocks to native speakers
# |-{0}-| im at the office
# |-{0}-| and http://wikitravel.org/en/Icelandic_phrasebook
# |-{0}-| i'll stop by indiewebcamp prolly
# |-{0}-| but im busy this week
# tantek.com edited /2013/demos (+99) "selfdogfood, add stub section for day 2 hack day demos" (view diff)
# |-{0}-| im in the middle of a code deploy right now heh
# 
tantek this looks like evanpro's pumpio instance: https://e14n.com/evan
# |-{0}-| what is audience in that context?
# Loqi 1 files modified, 1 new files in aaronpk/IndieAuth/master by aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/compare/bce57947f78d...4b9ae70a348b
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