#indiewebcamp 2013-06-19

2013-06-19 UTC
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pdurbin aaronpk: I googled but couldn't find a link to that quote
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aaronpk it was from his presentation
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Loqi 3 files modified, 1 new files in aaronpk/IndieAuth/master by aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/compare/4b9ae70a348b...d5f2df7e3c6b
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Loqi aaronpk: Should fix #7 by following 301 redirects on URLs to fix the t.co problem!
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aaronpk so close
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Loqi 3 files modified in aaronpk/IndieAuth/master by aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/compare/d5f2df7e3c6b...a3fc5b1bee0c
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Loqi aaronpk: add debugging statements
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Loqi aaronpk: require new unshorten gem
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aaronpk BOOM
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aaronpk twitter works again!
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/Indie_Auth/status/347150812507693056
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@Indie_Auth Finally fixed the t.co problem by following all redirects on profile links! https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/issues/7
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@plancast RT @benwerd: Sad that I won't make the #indiewebcamp pre-party, but if you're in Portland you should go learn about the #indieweb: http://t…
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pdurbin aaronpk: good job
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pdurbin aaronpk: what presentation?
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aaronpk at open source bridge
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pdurbin ah
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aaronparecki.com edited /site-deaths (+156) "/* 2013 */ add iGoogle" (view diff)
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@t Hey @Yahoo, you're not done killing stuff.
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@njudah RT @t: Hey @Yahoo, you're not done killing stuff.
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@widiantonvgroho RT @t: Hey @Yahoo, you're not done killing stuff.
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@tilgovi RT @t: Hey @Yahoo, you're not done killing stuff.
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@haxor @tilgovi Good times. You gonna be at http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page next weekend?
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@jakeludington RT @t: Hey @Yahoo, you're not done killing stuff.
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erikmaarten good afternoon! Suddenly it seems IndieAuth with Twitter is working -- with no change done on my side. Changes made to IndieAuth to fix the t.co problems?
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acegiak is anyone using this: https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention ?
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@clochix « We should all own the content we’re creating, rather than just posting to third-party content silos » http://indiewebcamp.com/2013
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@clochix http://indiewebcamp.com/p3k Gestion décentralisée de notes et commentaires, pour puvlier en sortant des silos
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auth.sanchitkarve.com edited /2013/Guest_List (+320) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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erikmaarten.com edited /webmention (+503) "added a section about available libraries related to webmention" (view diff)
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erikmaarten.com edited /webmention (-164) "/* Webmention-related libraries and tools */ removed the link to a library that requires other seemingly unknown libraries :)" (view diff)
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@nimwendil RT @clochix: « We should all own the content we’re creating, rather than just posting to third-party content silos » http://indiewebcamp.com/2013
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erikmaarten.com edited /webmention (-2) "/* Webmention-related libraries and tools */ added more general link to information about mf parsers" (view diff)
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@c_chep RT @clochix: « We should all own the content we’re creating, rather than just posting to third-party content silos » http://indiewebcamp.com/2013
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tommorris works on reply presentation: http://cl.ly/image/0E1Z0k0y0K0A
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tommorris is proudly and unashamedly stealing/being inspired by others. ;)
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auggernaut.com edited /2013/Guest_List (-79) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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auggernaut.com edited /2013/Guest_List (+32) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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karlcow tantek: Is there a feed for http://tagboard.com/indiewebcamp
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cweiske seems I've got to get my own implementation finished for the selfdogfooding session
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cweiske should posts that get a comment pingback also pingback its ancestor post (to whom it is comment to), or is that task of the commenter itself?
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pfefferle barnabywalters: have you thought about integrating a way generate absolute urls directly into the mf2 parser to lower dependencies?
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barnabywalters pfefferle: I’m working on it. Planning on extracting all URL-related helpers in my helpers package into a little URL package, including some for joining URLs
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barnabywalters webignition/url is okay but requires the i18n extension which is award
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pfefferle the mf2 parser and the helper are loading a lot of stuff!
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barnabywalters pfefferle: that’s because composer installs dev dependencies by default
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barnabywalters php-mf2 only actually requires two libraries IIRC, and mf-cleaner should only require one or two
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tommorris barnabywalters: http://cl.ly/image/0E1Z0k0y0K0A - design is coming along. ;)
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barnabywalters tommorris: lookin’ good
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pfefferle i also had a problem with the cassis.js what do you think about some kind of a cassis-loader.php which adds all the required "ob_" stuff?
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barnabywalters pfefferle: been on my todo list for a while
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barnabywalters actually I’ll add it now and send tantek a pull request
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barnabywalters just writing some installation + usage instructions for mf-cleaner
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pfefferle i am not very into it, but shouldn't this be enough? https://github.com/pfefferle/cassis
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barnabywalters pfefferle: looks good to me
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pfefferle then i will send a pull request
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barnabywalters great!
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pfefferle btw. webmention sending/receiving for wordpress is finished… next step: microformats parsing
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cweiske re absolute urls: Net_URL2 of pear does that nicely
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cweiske and it's only one file
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barnabywalters woah, wordpress still target 5.2? crazy stuff
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pfefferle :)
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pfefferle yep
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pfefferle barnabywalters: sorry for downgrading your code ;)
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barnabywalters pfefferle: no problem, it’s not a huge deal :) if it gets to the point where I actually *need* 5.4 features I’ll just bump up the required PHP version, so people < 5.4 will still get working code
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pfefferle thanks
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barnabywalters but wait — does 5.2 have closures? I’m using them in a few places and they would be a little harder to get rid of
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barnabywalters 5.2 doesn’t have namespaces either
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pfefferle yep… but i think 5.3 is still ok...
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barnabywalters yep, 5.3 is still a good platform to target
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tommorris PHP 5.4 is the only PHP for me. built-in web server ftw.
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pfefferle :)
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barnabywalters tommorris: absolutely.
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barnabywalters and halved memory usage
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tommorris for me, it's more that if I want to do mediawiki development, I can download MW and fire up the maintenance/server script rather than having to faff around with Apache
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notizblog.org edited /IRC_People (+51) (view diff)
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notizblog.org created /User:Notizblog.org (+137) "Created page with "== Matthias Pfefferle == Webworker from Germany * http://notizblog.org/ * http://microform.at/ * http://pfefferle.github.io/openwebicons/"" (view diff)
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acegiak hey pfefferle!
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acegiak pfefferle: know any way we can inject the h-entry microformat into wordpress as a plugin so that we can get it working independant of themes?
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acegiak I was trying to work it out today but I'm not great at the wordpress way of doing things
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pfefferle acegiak: I never thought about that… have to have a deeper look at the code… have you started anything yet?
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acegiak pfefferle: not yet, I'm checking to see what I need to do with my whisperfollow plugin to make sure pingbacks are working properly
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acegiak is your webmentions plugin safe to use?
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barnabywalters erikmaarten: I saw you noted mf-cleaner as having nonexistent dependencies — what exactly was the problem you were having?
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pfefferle acegiak: the actual version does only send webmentions and forward the received to the admin as email :)
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acegiak pfefferle: ah ok
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pfefferle acegiak: i use a lot of hooks for my theme to add some more semantics and mf2 to some core html-code https://github.com/pfefferle/SemPress/blob/master/SemPress/functions.php#L457
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pfefferle so perhaps it would be possible
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erikmaarten barnabywalters: I haven't actually tried using it, but it looked like it was importing some helper functions from a directory that wasn't available ... Hang on a second, I'll check again
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barnabywalters bear in mind it uses composer to manage it’s dependencies
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barnabywalters I added some installation and usage instructions just now
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acegiak pfefferle, one of the challenges is working out the best way of storing "in reply to"
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acegiak the problem I'm pondering at the moment is that whisperfollow uses a system similar to tumblr's reblogging
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acegiak and I'm trying to work out how that is best integrated with or replaced by some kind of response setup
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erikmaarten oh, I guess that explains it, I was a bit confused by the file using BarnabyWalters\Helpers\... when there wasn't any such directory.
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pfefferle erikmaarten: i ran into the same problems earlier today ;)
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acegiak at the moment you post an article and I then create a post with the whole html content or at least as much is provided in the rss feed PLUS my commentary/response where the section that is yours is linked to the original post
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erikmaarten (I'm not exactly a PHP whiz, and haven't used composer.)
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barnabywalters erikmaarten: no problem, thanks for bringing it up, hopefully the usage/installation instructions I added are helpful :)
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erikmaarten pfefferle: haha -- good to know I'm not alone :)
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erikmaarten.com edited /webmention (+224) "undid my previous removal of link" (view diff)
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acegiak pfefferle: do you know if pingbacks are triggered when you use wp_insert_post()?
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pfefferle acegiak: i think so… why?
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acegiak pfefferle: just checking. That's obviously what I call for my following plugin when you create a post reblogging someone
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pfefferle i see
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acegiak will I need to call the webmentions method manually?
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acegiak or does it pick up the same trigger?
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pfefferle it uses the same trigger as the pingbacks/trackbacks
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acegiak ok cool
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acegiak that's handy
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erikmaarten aaronpk, are you around?
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erikmaarten !tell aaronpk, found something interesting. When trying to implement webmention, I copied the <link rel...webmention... href...> from your article pages to make sure it'd be right, but it seems your Webmention Client only recognizes that link if the order is <link href... rel...>. Have I gotten it wrong? I guess maybe you send the webmention response in the headers, so that the <link> doesn't matter.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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cweiske pingback hard-codes it to <link rel href>, http://archive.cweiske.de/pingback/pingback-1.0.html#TOC2.2
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pfefferle can someone send me a test pingback/webmention for an article on notizblog.org?
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barnabywalters pfefferle: sure, any one in particular?
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pfefferle nope, should work on any article
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pfefferle hopefully ;)
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@BarnabyWalters The rise of the IndieWeb /by @pfefferle #bookmark #indieweb (http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4QaEgT/)
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barnabywalters pfefferle: okay, that should have sent a webmention
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barnabywalters ah, no there was some error, on my side I think
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pfefferle a webmention? are you sure? looks like a pingback
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pfefferle and i have still an error by overwriting the default pingback functions of wordpress...
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barnabywalters oh yep, there was one successful pingback
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barnabywalters it should have detected your webmention endpoint though, not sure why it didn’t
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@shawndrape It occurs to me that with the domain "dra.pe" I couldn't be more ideally set up for #indieweb interactions. But I don't like domain as ID.
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pfefferle barnabywalters: have you checked if the my meta links are valid?
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barnabywalters pfefferle: clearly the pingback one is as it’s working, just having a look at webmention
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barnabywalters al
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barnabywalters also checking how the HTTP lib I’m using parses that link header
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pfefferle kk
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pfefferle it seems that the damn wordpress doesn't send pingbacks on a local dev system…
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pfefferle testing should be more difficult that i thought...
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barnabywalters testing pingback+webmention is tricky. I’ve specced out a little tool to make it much easier, I just haven’t got round to making it yet
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barnabywalters okay, I think my HTTP client is parsing links slightly wrong. the endpoint is clearly <http://notizblog.org/?webmention=endpoint> but I’m getting http://notizblog.org/?webmention
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pfefferle hmmm
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pfefferle that url should work now too
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pfefferle ;)
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aaronpk erikmaarten: yep I made some updates to indieauth yesterday!
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Loqi aaronpk: erikmaarten left you a message 3 hours, 3 minutes ago: found something interesting. When trying to implement webmention, I copied the <link rel...webmention... href...> from your article pages to make sure it'd be right, but it seems your Webmention Client only recognizes that link if the order is <link href... rel...>. Have I gotten it wrong? I guess maybe you send the webmention response in the headers, so that the <link> doesn't matter.
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aaronpk erikmaarten: lol yea that's what I get for using regex instead of a real parser
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aaronpk tommorris: nice design showing comments!
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tommorris aaronpk: quite a lot of it is nicked from you, btw. I hope you don't mind. ;)
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aaronpk of course not!
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tommorris Now I've done the design, I need to actually wire it in and deploy. that's a job for the train home. ;)
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tommorris http://inessential.com/2013/03/18/brians_stupid_feed_tricks is worth reading.
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tantek tommorriss most of that sounds about right
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tantek skimmed
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tantek similar problems at Technorati
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tantek so many of those problems are not problems with HTML / visible pages
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aaronpk that would be a good thing to add to the microformats wiki
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aaronpk unoless its already there of course
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tantek no it's the first I've seen it
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tantek where to put it ...
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tantek ?
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aaronpk "why microformats?"
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aaronpk barnabywalters: i'm incorporating your composer changes to mention-client. thinking an "IndieWeb" namespace would make more sense than "AaronParecki" or "PK"
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aaronpk what do you think?
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aaronpk I could go with PK though
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tantek.com edited /feed (+605) "How to consume - don't bother - it's problematic and fragile - see citation of over 40 problems." (view diff)
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tantek that'll do for now
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barnabywalters aaronpk: probably best to base the decision on which name developers are most likely to remember
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aaronpk i'll go with IndieWeb
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barnabywalters also a good idea to make it match the package vendor name
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aaronpk barnabywalters: "The package name found for your repository is: indieweb/mention-client, press Submit to confirm."
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barnabywalters sounds good
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aaronpk oh nice there's a hook that will re-publish to packagist when you push to github
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barnabywalters indeedy
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aaronpk barnabywalters: is there a delay in publishing to packagist before it's available to use?
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barnabywalters aaronpk: maybe 5 secs
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aaronpk hmm
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aaronpk oh how do you specify the version?
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barnabywalters I’m not seeing it at https://packagist.org/search/?q=webmention-client
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barnabywalters oh, mention client, okay
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aaronpk yea it also does pingback
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barnabywalters looks ready to go to me
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aaronpk https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2 what says this is version 0.1?
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barnabywalters git tags
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aaronpk ahhh
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barnabywalters so git tag v0.1.0 then git push --tags to release the first version
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barnabywalters otherwise users need to explicitly require the dev version, or set min-stability to dev
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aaronpk thats awesome
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barnabywalters composer is the best designed dependency manager I’ve ever used
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barnabywalters aaronpk: another composer trick: you can type the shortest unambiguous command. so ./composer.phar u updates, ins installs, sel self-updates
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aaronpk hah nice
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c2.com edited /2013/Guest_List (+414) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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tantek Yay Ward!
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Loqi :D
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aaronpk oh great "PHP Startup: Invalid library (maybe not a PHP library) 'openssl.so' in Unknown"
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tommorris mention of indieweb here: http://perfectpath.co.uk/2013/06/17/barcamp-berkshire-day-2-thought-link-dump-bcb13/
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aaronpk barnabywalters: did you install php via homebrew?
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barnabywalters yep
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barnabywalters there’s a good keg with up-to-date versions of php and associated other libraries
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aaronpk huh.. i might have to do that. don't know why openssl decided to die all of a sudden
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aaronpk well now i'll have php 5.4, although my server won't
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aaronpk woo my site works in php 5.4
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pdurbin has anyone used this? RFC 5023 - The Atom Publishing Protocol - http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5023
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exts.ch edited /2013/Guest_List (-488) "/* Creators */ sorry guys, it's been a rough month and won't be able to make it this year" (view diff)
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bret have people seen this? http://tosdr.org/
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@natevw Wanted to sleep on it, but decided last night I gotta skip getting over to #IndieWebCamp this year :-/
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michielbdejong hi! looking at what to support, opinions about webmention vs pingback/trackback/refback https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linkback vs salmon? are any of those really deprecated?
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aaronpk nobody here has implemented salmon afaik. we're all supporting webmention and/or pingback. webmention is the easier one, and if you want to support backwards compatibility with pingback you can use pingback.me to send pingbacks to your webmention endpoint https://github.com/aaronpk/pingback#pingback-to-webmention-service
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michielbdejong aaronpk: thanks! i'll start with webmention then
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aaronpk there's also some good info here http://indiewebcamp.com/comment#Accept_a_comment
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@fabbricasiti #webdevelopment: The Independent Web &amp
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Loqi IndieWebCamp:
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Loqi IndieWebCamp
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aaronpk oh nice, the video is up!
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aaronpk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE0AA6gVRSI
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@michielbdejong The Independent Web &amp
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Loqi IndieWebCamp http://www.youtube.com/
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@haxor Tantek Çelik and I discuss the #indieweb and http://t.co/1pOUpHXfHx: reasons, goals, progress. http://www.youtube.com/ /thx @t @googledevs
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@louisgray RT @haxor: Tantek Çelik and I discuss the #indieweb and http://t.co/1pOUpHXfHx: reasons, goals, progress. http://www.youtube.com/ /thx @t @g…
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@turoczy RT @haxor: Tantek Çelik and I discuss the #indieweb and http://t.co/1pOUpHXfHx: reasons, goals, progress. http://www.youtube.com/ /thx @t @g…
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/06/19/1/indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (pingback)
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sandeepshetty Does anyone have an h-feed example on their site that translates well to Atom/RSS 2? (planning on focusing on mf2 first and then just creating feeds from that - just like I'm doing activity streams json from the mf2)
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aaronpk mine should in theory http://aaronparecki.com/articles.json
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@julien51 RT @haxor: Tantek Çelik and I discuss the #indieweb and http://t.co/1pOUpHXfHx: reasons, goals, progress. http://www.youtube.com/ /thx @t @g…
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aaronpk although I didn't actually wrap it with h-feed
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sandeepshetty the h-feed is the interesting bit cause atom/rss requires stuff like channel name etc.
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aaronpk ah
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sandeepshetty I'm planning on doing a separate feed for each tag so people can choose what they want...
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sandeepshetty or combing tags eventually...
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aaronpk yea me too http://aaronparecki.com/tag/indieweb.json
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aaronpk i don't have combined tag feed though
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@dbounds RT @haxor: Tantek Çelik and I discuss the #indieweb and http://t.co/1pOUpHXfHx: reasons, goals, progress. http://www.youtube.com/ /thx @t @g…
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sandeepshetty I need primarily for friends on family so that get all tags minus #technology :)
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aaronpk haha
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sandeepshetty wow so many typos there... time to shut up and get some work done :D
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sandeepshetty aaronpk: BTW, re webmention link tag regex: I'm using this: https://github.com/converspace/converspace/blob/master/helpers.php#L24
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sandeepshetty it's dirty but works for now :)
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aaronpk cool yea I just did something simliar
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sandeepshetty it's missing stuff like checking for single quotes, etc... will be abstracting this stuff later into something better...
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sandeepshetty gtg... later.
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@DeveloperWebTV The Independent Web &amp
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Loqi IndieWebCamp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE0AA6gVRSI&feature=youtube_gdata
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michielbdejong does "Possible loss or restriction of ownership" on http://indiewebcamp.com/PESOS apply in the case of PESOSsing Twitter?
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michielbdejong it seems to me that it does, from the sentence "Exporting Twitter Content to a datastore as a service or other cloud based service, however, is not permitted." on https://dev.twitter.com/terms/api-terms
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michielbdejong maybe i should ask them :)
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@michielbdejong @twitterapi https://dev.twitter.com/terms/api-terms says "Exporting Twitter Content [...] is not permitted." - Does that also forbid http://indiewebcamp.com/PESOS
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bret.io created /User:Bret.io (+498) "Moving info from my old domains page" (view diff)
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@sandeepshetty RT @haxor: Tantek Çelik and I discuss the #indieweb and http://t.co/1pOUpHXfHx: reasons, goals, progress. http://www.youtube.com/ /thx @t @g…
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bret.io edited /User:Bre.tc (-260) "Moved info off of this page onto my new page" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /short-domains (+32) "/* tc */ Removed myself from users using the .tc short name TLD" (view diff)
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cweiske is there a set of dummy/example pages I can download + host myself that link to each other and provide comments/normal links to each other, so I can test my implementation?
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aaronpk that's a good idea
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cweiske I take this as a "no" :)
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aaronpk not that i'm aware of anyway
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aaronpk would be a good set of files for a test suite for some clients
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cweiske ok, starting..
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@zandro84 I liked a @YouTube video http://www.youtube.com/ The Independent Web &amp
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Loqi IndieWebCamp
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Loqi [mention] http://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2013/06/19/launching-maker-party/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013 (pingback)
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@benwerd Yahoo!'s not quite done killing stuff: http://tantek.com/2013/169/t6/yahoo-not-done-killing-osb2013-ownyourdata #osb2013
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@pchapuis RT @haxor: Tantek Çelik and I discuss the #indieweb and http://t.co/1pOUpHXfHx: reasons, goals, progress. http://www.youtube.com/ /thx @t @g…
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@shawndrape RT @haxor: Tantek Çelik and I discuss the #indieweb and http://t.co/1pOUpHXfHx: reasons, goals, progress. http://www.youtube.com/ /thx @t @g…
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auggernaut.com edited /2013/Guest_List (-88) "/* Apprentices */" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - since you suggested it here: http://microformats.org/wiki/rss
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aaronpk nice!
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cweiske those "40+" problems do not only relate to rss itself
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cweiske the first 20 are bugs/misconfigurations in http servers
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cweiske all of the problems are problems that can/will also arise on indieweb comments
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cweiske and if you say "but we parse only valid MF2", then I say: ok, just parse valid rss/atom only
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cweiske there is no difference
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cweiske the only problem that I have with rss is that it's 4 different formats
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cweiske not really standardizes
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cweiske "upgradable" by modules, e.g. full text content module for rss2
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cweiske so I use atom exclusively, because that's been defined in a proper RFC
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cweiske btw aaronpk - https://github.com/cweiske/indieweb-testfiles
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cweiske not much, but a start
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cweiske already found some bugs in my impl
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aaronpk nice!
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aaronpk that's awesome, I'm happy to keep adding stuff to that too
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cweiske do I have to know all microformats to be able to parse one of them correctly?
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cweiske have a look at https://github.com/cweiske/indieweb-testfiles/blob/master/raw/4-titletest.html
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cweiske the correct title for the h-entry would be "Re: About a cat / h2"
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tantek cweiske - microformats2 has a generic syntax and defined parsing spec: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing
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tantek btw
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tantek for microformats qs, #microformats :)
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cweiske but the first p-name is the one of the p-author
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cweiske oh my
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cweiske bye bye, xpath-based solution
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tantek :)
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cweiske that makes me sad now
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tommorris http://tommorris.org/posts/8204 - published first alpha of a comment. ;)
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@tommorris Google Developers talks to @t about #indiewebcamp. Video. http://tommorris.org/posts/8374
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sandeepshetty aaronpk: I've drafted up v0.2 of webmention in it's own branch that simplifies it further and closes some open ends. Let me know what you think.
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aaronpk oh cool
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aaronpk will take a look later
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aaronpk is it on the indieweb repo or converspace?
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sandeepshetty converspace
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aaronpk k
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sandeepshetty https://github.com/converspace/webmention/blob/v0.2/README.md
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