#indiewebcamp 2013-06-23
2013-06-23 UTC
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# 
@apeacox RT @bradfitz: Camlistore 0.2 is now out: https://camlistore.org/docs/release/0.2 ... #golang #indiewebcamp
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# 
@sandeepshetty #converspace now fully implements #rssb: automatically shows remote comments, likes, reposts and mentions http://www.sandeep.io/76 #indieweb
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# 
caseorganic Gmail backup: http://gmvault.org/download.html
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# 
@ozten Talking about IUSEA http://ozten.com/psto/2012/03/29/iusea-and-u-should-tooa/ with the unhosted group at #IndieWebCamp
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# 
tantek.com edited /2013/Schedule (+40) "/* Sunday, June 23, 2013 (Work Sessions) */ propose some earlier times for the afternoon end sessions" (view diff)
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# 
@michaeldexter Missing the #IndieWebCamp :(
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# @ozten RT @t: What is the #indieweb and @indiewebcamp?
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# @ozten RT @krynsky: Info on Mozilla Persona Identity system RT @ozten: New Post - Posted from IndieWebCamp http://ozten.com/psto/2013/06/22/posted-from-indiewebcamp/ #indiewebcamp
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# @ozten RT @krynsky: Did I just hear @caseorganic discuss logging into brains at #indiewebcamp? Awesome.
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# @ozten If you attended sessions and took private notes, please update shared notes http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/Schedule #IndieWebCamp
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@AAinslie RT @kevinmarks: #indiewebcamp @caseorganic: I have a wordpress install on http://caseorganic.com called Brain, that I email things I want t…
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# tantek.com edited /2013/Schedule (+19) "/* Sunday, June 23, 2013 (Work Sessions) */ link directly to this year's introductions page" (view diff)
# 
@kevinmarks RT @t: Wonderful #indiewebcamp day 1.
# tantek.com edited /2013 (+72) "/* sponsor */ update sponsored item info and order by time order" (view diff)
# 
@t @djabatt see http://indiewebcamp.com/2013#Participating for info on remote participation via IRC, Etherpad, and Google+ Hangout. (ttk.me t4Qe2)
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@benwerd Announcing #POSSE sync to Flickr: http://werd.io/view/51c6a5acbed7de1b5ef7af1f http://www.flickr.com/photos/benwerd/9114923136/ #indiewebcamp
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# acegiak__ anyway, as I was saying: I'm working on updating http://wordpress.org/plugins/whisperfollow/ to read mf2
# @kevinmarks RT @benwerd: Announcing #POSSE sync to Flickr: http://werd.io/view/51c6a5acbed7de1b5ef7af1f http://www.flickr.com/photos/benwerd/9114923136/ #indiewebcamp
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# @kevinmarks @tom_watson here at #indiewebcamp the encryption by default solutions are making a lot more sense
# tantek.com edited /2013/Schedule (+23) "/* Sunday, June 23, 2013 (Work Sessions) */ update time slots for ~19:30 PDX flights, possible after party for those still around TBD" (view diff)
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# tantek.com edited /2013/Guest_List (+54) "moved to regrets: Jessica IM'd that she couldn't make it, Andy tweeted as such." (view diff)
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# @sandeepshetty Argh! IRC/Freenode fail whale. Having a hard time joining #indiewebcamp. Had the same issue yesterday.
# 
barnabywalters good morning indiewebcamp
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# sandeepshetty acegiak: sent you an email.
# barnabywalters morning sandeepshetty
# sandeepshetty morning barnabywalters
# barnabywalters oh yeah, actually it’s the afternoon here too :)
# sandeepshetty is excited to see acegiak it's attempting a uf2 reader
# sandeepshetty it's past 18:00 hrs here
# barnabywalters 12:44
# barnabywalters pfefferle: yeah, Iceland is closest to the US, and I get to control when night is ;)
# sandeepshetty :)
# sandeepshetty the indiewebcamp-marketing notes look interesting
# barnabywalters all the others linked from https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp
# barnabywalters I think they’re all on the wiki now too
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# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: is there no hfeed equivalent in uf2?
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: yeah, h-feed. I use it, I think tantek does too, maybe aaronpk
# sandeepshetty I've seen that but nothing on the uf2 page? Also people using it don't have things like channel names for providing tag specific feeds.
# barnabywalters nope, I don’t think we added it yet. need to document use cases, why etc.
# barnabywalters my notes h-feed has a p-name
# sandeepshetty I want to generate rss/atom from uf2 but it's missing some fields
# barnabywalters which used to change depending on the tag it was being filtered by but I broke it and haven’t fixed it yet
# sandeepshetty just like I'm generating the mf2 json representation
# barnabywalters ooh, actually just spotted a bug in php-mf2
# barnabywalters on my notes page it’s adding each of the notes’ content property to the h-feed content property
# barnabywalters thanks sandeepshetty — wouldn’t have caught that otherwise :)
# sandeepshetty :)
# sandeepshetty I also plan on looking into the <3 bug and see if it's something that can be fixed with proper encoding.
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: just to recap, what is the <3 bug and does it get fixed by upgrading to 0.1.15 and setting $parser->htmlSafe = true?
# barnabywalters pfefferle: oh cool
# sandeepshetty Any < or > that is not an html tag should be encoded I think
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: that already happens in e-* properties, and will happen in non e-* properties if htmlSafe is set
# barnabywalters in v0.1.15
# barnabywalters provided there are no problems it will be default behaviour in v0.2
# sandeepshetty I think it something I need to do add well in converspace before it gets to php-mf2
# sandeepshetty damn auto correct on my phone
# barnabywalters yeah, any < in your source which isn’t part of a tag should certainly be <
# barnabywalters > is safer to leave, but still probably a good plan to encode
# sandeepshetty the problem is that markdown allow for html so I can't blindly encode
# barnabywalters I thought markdown was fairly good at handling errant < chars?
# barnabywalters latest dev checkout of php-mf2 has e-* child relative URL resolving
# barnabywalters just pushed
# sandeepshetty what does this do?
# sandeepshetty (on my phone so can't check source)
# barnabywalters resolves any relative URLs in @src @data @href in children of an e-* parsed element
# sandeepshetty and turns them into absolute urls?
# barnabywalters yes
# sandeepshetty Nice.
# barnabywalters now working on parsing only in a given ID
# barnabywalters $parser->parseId() okay method name?
# sandeepshetty I should add support into my http lib to just return dom from #id if fragment is specified
# sandeepshetty Sounds good.
# sandeepshetty If you plan on giving xpath based support in the future you could add a "from" to the name
# barnabywalters parseFromId — yep, that’s probably better
# sandeepshetty (Y)
# barnabywalters actually parseFromId is just a handy shortcut, adding context DOMElement as second param of ->parse
# sandeepshetty (Y)
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# barnabywalters pfefferle: my tests are passing, can you please a) check your version, b) check you’re setting $htmlSafe to true (e.g. $parser->parse(true) and c) if neither of those solve the problem raise an issue with code samples?
# barnabywalters I’m just adding documentation covering htmlSafe — it’s not the default behaviour yet
# barnabywalters hm, that all looks okay
# barnabywalters let me finish writing these docs and pushing ID parsing then I’ll have a closer look
# barnabywalters pushed php-mf2 v0.1.16 with updated documentation
# barnabywalters and changelog
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# barnabywalters pfefferle: looking at https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/blob/master/webmention.php#L319 — does that actually work? http://webmention.org/ is not the header name, it’s the link rel. WP docs don’t seem to mention link rel header retrieval but you’re the expert
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# barnabywalters good morning tantek
# barnabywalters just been pushing lots of new stuff to php-mf2
# barnabywalters a week or so ago now
# barnabywalters tries to find first one
# barnabywalters pfefferle: np :)
# 
@BarnabyWalters Checked into VÃsar for the second day of #indiewebcamp Reykjavik Remote party (http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4QeEUr/)
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# barnabywalters tantek: earliest I can find is http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4QXLc8/
# barnabywalters there have been a few over the past couple of days
# barnabywalters so I’ve been working on styling and making author finding and h-entry finding more robust
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# sandeepshetty tantek: did you see sandeep.io/39 ?
# barnabywalters afternoon gjones — I’d be interested in your thoughts on http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats-2-parsing#issues
# barnabywalters tantek: there’s a comment there too
# sandeepshetty I got h-card working for likes, repost & mentions along with automated comments
# barnabywalters tantek: pretty sure I was after aaronpk
# sandeepshetty Git it working yesterday... plus I also allow remote update by resending the webmention
# sandeepshetty Yes
# sandeepshetty webmention 0.2 has some text about it now
# sandeepshetty Still working on styling though
# barnabywalters tantek: yeah, I changed it a little. previous design was not optimised for comments
# barnabywalters I just need to make it a big nicer on small screens, then I’m happy with it for the moment
# gjones barnabywalters yes thats a bit of an issue we would have to consider \u char stuff as well. which also could return <tag>
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters, pfefferle: thinking out loud about some stuff we discussed yesterday sandeep.io/79. Will add to the wiki when I get to my machine
# barnabywalters gjones: ooh, nasty, hadn’t considered that. The current version of php-mf2 escapes angle brackets on non e-* properties if you tell it to
# barnabywalters tantek: yeah, it’s not optimal. struggling to come up with something I’m happy with which maintains the conversational flow but doesn’t overly de-emphasise the metadata
# barnabywalters tantek: I want to, probably will end up doing so. working on about 12 other things right now though ;)
# barnabywalters I often have tags which are not in the post body
# barnabywalters but could show the difference
# barnabywalters mm, I didn’t like having my photo next to the main content as it looks silly in the stream and if there’s no reply context
# 
tantek e.g. compare top of http://tantek.com/ to http://tantek.com/2013/174/t3/fitness-heartrate-faster-b2b-half-marathon-future
# barnabywalters tantek: [tangent] you don’t publicly expose the URL a reply note is in-reply-to?
# tantek barnabywalters - it's the second item here: http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#Working_On
# barnabywalters ah, cool
# barnabywalters heh, I’m fairly behind what sandeepshetty and benwerd are doing
# barnabywalters we must be careful not to let these disparities lead to monoculture
# tantek sandeepshetty - my only constructive improvement feedback on http://www.sandeep.io/39 is that we should develop a rel value for it
# barnabywalters he got POSSE to flickr working earlier too, right?
# barnabywalters hm, that might actually be worth implementing now I’m posting photos more often
# barnabywalters I worry a little that the progress we’re making will be intimidating to people wanting to roll their own indieweb sites
# sandeepshetty tantek I agree but how does that work on list pages?
# barnabywalters if we don’t continue extracting all this goodness into small reusable components and documenting the hell out of it all
# barnabywalters tantek: sure, so we just have to make sure we keep going :)
# barnabywalters tantek: agreed, it’s great!
# sandeepshetty Cool... where do I start with the rel stuff?
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# sandeepshetty Why not just "likes"?
# sandeepshetty Will take a look in a bit... wrapping up some comment presentation stuff... Will come up with something tonight.
# 
@glennjones There are some good ideas been hack on at @indiewebcamp - new open comment/mention/like system - irc://irc.freenode.net/indiewebcamp
# barnabywalters tantek: is there a template sentence to use for rel design checking? e.g. “destination is the x of the source”
# sandeepshetty Maybe activity streams wording "like-object"?
# tantek so you could use rel="like" on the links in http://www.sandeep.io/39 that link BACK to the likes, e.g. http://www.sandeep.io/39#likes
# barnabywalters pfefferle: rel values? should already be in there in v0.1.16
# sandeepshetty This phone screen is to small to keep up with the conversation :(
# barnabywalters *conversation(s)
# barnabywalters pfefferle: :)
# tantek sandeep, in your links here: http://www.sandeep.io/39#likes, you could use rel="like", because those are links TO likes of your post
# sandeepshetty More like likers?
# barnabywalters tantek: does that actually check out? “destination is a like-of the source”
# barnabywalters like-of of the source
# sandeepshetty liked/liker?
# sandeepshetty Like-of of sound weird
# sandeepshetty agreed
# sandeepshetty (Y)
# sandeepshetty So the current candidate is like-of
# sandeepshetty Could someone add it to the wiki.. so we can brainstorm further
# barnabywalters has to go for some lunch
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# gjones how about i-like - as we already have terms such as friend referencing relation to author
# barnabywalters tantek: I find those easier to understand than in-reply-to and like-of
# barnabywalters “destination is a like-of of source” vs “destination is an object-of-liking of source”
# barnabywalters or, alternatively, “destination is source’s object-of-liking”
# barnabywalters destination is source’s stylesheet, object-of-reply, etc
# barnabywalters thoughts on “destination is source’s X” as a rel design template phrase?
# barnabywalters “friending” — what even is that
# barnabywalters RSVPing is a useful one
# barnabywalters destination is source’s object-of-rsvp
# barnabywalters destination is source’s object-of-follow (?)
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# sandeepshetty tantek: see sandeep.io/55
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# sandeepshetty Pushed better styling... Check out sandeep.io/39
# sandeepshetty Will do.
# sandeepshetty Any suggestions for representing pushes that might not have a h-card? See sandeep.io/39
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# sandeepshetty s/pushes/users
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# www.sandeep.io edited /Facebook (+585) "Added activities examples from http://www.sandeep.io/55" (view diff)
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# www.sandeep.io edited /RSSB (+805) "/* Really Simple Social Blogging */ Added brainstorming section for rels." (view diff)
# sandeepshetty What do you think about representing it with "Unknown Person"?
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: use domain + favicon?
# barnabywalters pfefferle: unfortunately it is still required
# sandeepshetty Domain is a good suggestion but misleading sometimes when it's a community site. "Facebook.com likes this" is weird no?
# barnabywalters if you’re not using the composer autoloader you’ll have to include both webignition Url and Resolver
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: question is, weirder than “unknown person”
# barnabywalters pfefferle: what ghosts? error message?
# sandeepshetty Yeah. It's not as misleading
# barnabywalters pfefferle: hm, weird
# barnabywalters I haven’t changed the dependencies at all in the last few versions
# barnabywalters in fact, I should probably update them
# barnabywalters yeah, I really need to get rid of that
# barnabywalters there’s an issue for it
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# @benwerd The tyranny of content types #indiewebcamp http://werd.io/entry/51c72566bed7dee673ee2052/the-tyranny-of-content-types-indiewebcamp
# 
Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/entry/51c72566bed7dee673ee2052/the-tyranny-of-content-types-indiewebcamp linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/posts (pingback)
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# www.sandeep.io created /responses (+1232) "Created page with "
{{stub}} A response is a posts that is a reaction to another URL. Some examples of response types are comment/reply, like, repost/share, mention. —[[User:Sandeep.io]] Thi..."" (view diff)benwerd joined the channel
# jessykate blargh, just missed one bus, next bus eta 9:52. guess the 4 is less frequent sunday mornings! see y'all just after 10
# barnabywalters woah new php.new
# barnabywalters s/.new/.net
# barnabywalters *sigh*
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: saw it yesterday. It sucks. No visual hierarchy.
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: haven’t looked around it enough to formulate opinions yet
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: what's the post type wiki page work out opinions about them?
# sandeepshetty s/work out/about our
# sandeepshetty Can't find it. :(
# barnabywalters what, the note vs article distinction one?
# barnabywalters I can’t remember a page just containing opinions about content types
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# sandeepshetty Yes note vs article
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# sandeepshetty Thanks
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# @benwerd How chickens work #indiewebcamp http://werd.io/entry/51c7299fbed7dee9639c9af6/how-chickens-work-indiewebcamp
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# barnabywalters benwerd: you mean you have indieweb checkins *and* indieweb checkins? this is going to get confusing, fast ;)
# barnabywalters *chickens
# barnabywalters aaronpk: okay, I’ll post the URL here in a sec
# barnabywalters benwerd: of course — that makes everything much simpler ;)
# barnabywalters hah, you should be
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# barnabywalters aaronpk: yep, audio is excellent now, thanks!
# barnabywalters is my video feed as slow as it looks from my end?
# barnabywalters yours is fine, mine looks frozen
# barnabywalters :(
# barnabywalters sound is the most important thing anyway
# 
@wavis #rssb #indieweb likes, comments, reposts, and mentions, minus the #facegootwi http://www.sandeep.io/39
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# barnabywalters benwerd: I’ve received indiecomments from matthias here: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4QbH5C/
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# barnabywalters and sent them here: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4QaEgT/
# barnabywalters problem is they don’t have permalinks
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: will login in a bit
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# jessykate can someone let me in downstairs?
# jessykate w00t, thanks
# barnabywalters is this “indieweb anonymous” going on right now?
# sandeepshetty benwerd: you have a new comment :)
# barnabywalters waves
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# sandeepshetty benwerd: oh you also allow updates. Nice!
# barnabywalters benwerd: which comment?
# 
benwerd sandeepshetty commented here: http://werd.io/entry/51c72566bed7dee673ee2052/the-tyranny-of-content-types-indiewebcamp#comments whereas you commented here and have the wrong name displayed: http://werd.io/view/51c4e161bed7de073150079b#comments
# barnabywalters benwerd: yep, for some reason your interpreter found the last h-card on my site instead of the p-author h-card of the note
# barnabywalters benwerd: check out https://github.com/barnabywalters/php-mf-cleaner, specifically getAuthor
# barnabywalters I already solved a lot of these problems
# barnabywalters pass getAuthor the h-entry you want the author for, the context (output from php-mf2) and the page URL and it’ll get you the right author (hopefully)
# barnabywalters check out test suite for what scenarios it handles
# sandeepshetty benwerd: liked a post. How chickens work
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# tantek.com edited /2013/Schedule (+0) "/* Sunday, June 23, 2013 (Work Sessions) */ update morning hack sessions" (view diff)
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# barnabywalters is switching to hangouts for iOS so I can still actually use my computer
# barnabywalters argh — no google it is not okay that “a video error occurred”
# barnabywalters success!
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# pfenwick I think I need a bazillion more cups of coffee before code... 1pm - 1am seems to be my peak productivity according to github.
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# pfenwick bnvk: That's perfect! You can give people turn-key managed hosting so they don't have to manage their own machines. And I'm sure you could team up with content writers and SEO engineers to provide them with content synergistic with readers' core interests.
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# barnabywalters “I’m a self-facilitating <del>media</del><ins>indieweb</ins> node”
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# Loqi 11 files modified, 4 new files in aaronpk/IndieAuth/master by aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/compare/a3fc5b1bee0c...1e5581b2a91b
# barnabywalters aaronpk: woah, really?
# barnabywalters 2F auth on indieauth.com?
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# barnabywalters yep, that’s a huge plus
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# sandeepshetty_ phew finally got in on my machine. might be a problem with freenode webchat
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# sandeepshetty is catching up on logs
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# eschnou willnorris, seems like it worked :-)
# sandeepshetty tantek: added the rel stuff here: http://indiewebcamp.com/responses
# eschnou willnorris, although I don't know what I grabbed more than the content, probably due to mf markdown issues
# 
willnorris pfefferle: yeah, using your plugin
# willnorris the extra data is my wordpress theme, I think
# @ozten Cool, it worked! And I've logged in via FirefoxOS phone SMS. https://secure.flickr.com/photos/ozten/9117250313/ https://secure.flickr.com/photos/ozten/9117242319/ #IndieWebCamp #IndieAuth
# willnorris eschnou, if I send a second ping for the same URL, will your site update the existing comment, or create a new one?
# sandeepshetty is fixing datetime issues with webmention on sandeep.io/39
# willnorris pfefferle: count on it :)
# eschnou willnorris, it will ignore, I need to implement updates. But I can delete this one if you want to try again.
# smus ^^ thoughts?
# barnabywalters I’ve never used medium, what are the good things about it’s uability?
# eschnou woaw.. did not realized we pass the 60 users in the channel ! awesome.
# eschnou I wish it would stay like that all year long!
# barnabywalters the obvious response is “build one” but would be worth analysing what medium has which other platforms lack
# willnorris eschnou: yeah, go ahead and delete that one
# barnabywalters eschnou: it’s growing steadily — we’ve consistently had around 40 for the last few weeks IIRC
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# smus barnabywalters: any self-hosting incurs a usability penalty
# eschnou willnorris, done.
# smus for one. also, medium's editor is really nice, posts have beautiful typography, etc.
# barnabywalters smus: I’ve heard good stuff about their editor — according to tommorris the upcoming wikipedia WYSIWYG editor will solve all our editing problems ;)
# eschnou willnorris, It seems you have only mf1 markup and not mf2, I guess this may be the cause. I use the php-mf2 lib from barnabywalters for extracting the relevant content.
# sandeepshetty smus: the editor is very limited... (Which might be a good thing)
# barnabywalters eschnou willnorris: php-mf2 has limited BC support, certainly a good plan to add mf2
# benwerd sandeepshetty: fixed my "like" template, fwiw: http://werd.io/entry/51c7299fbed7dee9639c9af6/how-chickens-work-indiewebcamp
# sandeepshetty and typography is not a feature.. just something they did right
# smus barnabywalters: haha, we'll have to wait and see, i guess. but i'm not holding my breath for wp to solve that problem... writing wp articles is much more involved than blog posts
# sandeepshetty yay!
# sandeepshetty benwerd: how do you plan on handling situation where you don't find a h-card?
# smus sandeepshetty: 1) yes 2) don't understand. how is it not a feature?
# sandeepshetty benwerd: I don't have a good solution yet http://sandeep.io/39
# willnorris eschnou: it should be an ugly mix of mf1 and mf2 (http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwillnorris.com%2F2013%2F06%2Ftesting-indieweb-comments)
# sandeepshetty smus: It just something everyone should do, like write bug free code, etc.
# willnorris it's pulling out the mf2, but the entry name has that extra content in it
# barnabywalters woah, why is the author URL “Will Norris”?
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# barnabywalters looks at source
# willnorris heh, didn't notice that :)
# willnorris probably my bad. I hacked in the mf2
# barnabywalters yep, p-url should be u-url :)
# smus sandeepshetty: if all of your competitors had tons of bugs, being bug-free is definitely a feature (s/feature/selling point)
# sandeepshetty jsut saying you don't have a feature list item that says bug-free code.. it's a given
# willnorris ah
# willnorris fixed
# sandeepshetty typography is a given.. sadly these days default bootstrap is a given :D
# barnabywalters didn’t get the memo
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# smus sandeepshetty: fair enough
# sandeepshetty is a recovered bootstrapaholic
# erinjo eschnou: I'm trying to install Storytlr, but getting a 500 error. It looks like it's "Invalid command 'php_flag'" and if I remove these lines from the htaccess the installer will come up. I'm on a shared host, is there something I can add to a php.ini file to get this working?
# eschnou erinjo, hmm, I don't know where this command come from, don't have any php_flag in the default htaccess. If the installer comes up, it means it could not find the config file.
# 
bret.io edited /2013/Auth_Jam_Session (+167) "/* IndieAuth + SMS */ Added example of SMS authentication" (view diff)
# eschnou erinjo, if you are upgrading an existing setup, instead of the installer you should get an upgrade screen.
# erinjo eschnou: I trying a fresh install right now
# barnabywalters benwerd: “I’ve got a pretty sweet hammer and I’m looking for nails” ;)
# eschnou erinjo, ha ok. So, if you get the installer, that's a good news no? Where does it break?
# eschnou erinjo, my bad, there is indeed a php flag in the htaccess to force the short_open_tag which is required by storytlr.
# barnabywalters benwerd: might I suggest an extra twitter account which gets POSSEd to instead of your main one if content is tagged with #test?
# barnabywalters has been meaning to implement that forever
# eschnou erinjo, you can remove it from there but then need to put it in your php.ini.
# erinjo eschnou: can you point me to the right text to include in the php.ini?
# eschnou erinjo, this is what I have: short_open_tag = On
# brianjesse wondering - do any other #indieweb fans play tennis?
# erinjo eschnou: Thanks, let me give that a try.
# willnorris yeah :)
# willnorris I was just thinking… for the longest time, pingbacks were second-class citizens in terms of blog comments. Now we're moving to a model where they're they *only* option. Our UI patterns certainly have to be updated to reflect that
# willnorris yeah, maybe store as a standard comment, with some additional data in comment_meta tracking the original URL and such
# pfenwick !meme ERMERGERD
# willnorris pfefferle: there we go, just manually switched it to standard comment :) (https://willnorris.com/2013/06/testing-indieweb-comments#comment-65631) doesn't look like you're storing the image URL of the author, are you?
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: since you've done comments in pingback, salmon & webmention... it'll be interesting to her your perspective on pros and cons of each
# sandeepshetty s/her/hear
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: but it does do sending comments upstream... something we don't have yet
# sandeepshetty could you elaborate?
# 
@pjf #indiewebcamp #meme: http://pauls-friends-as-memes.tumblr.com/post/53693044704 ( @caseorganic )
# willnorris we were actually just discussing this [very briefly] this morning… how do you do replies to replies. Should the new comment follow the chain up and send webmentions to each, or should it just call it's "parent", and the parent then passes along the webmention, or something else?
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# willnorris pfefferle: I don't think so
# sandeepshetty willnorris: I prefer the latter... and each parent pick up the comment post along with it's p-comments...
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# sandeepshetty willnorris: so only the root as all the comments.
# sandeepshetty *has
# willnorris you don't think a non-root node should still display it's child comments?
# sandeepshetty willnorris: it will... but it will have only its children... only the root has it all (threads)
# eschnou pfefferle, willnorris would be great to have a distributed comment graph and then do crazy things like this: http://shkspr.mobi/hyper/?thread=802136
# willnorris sandeepshetty: agreed
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: the latter distributes the load... so each instance has to a make only one wenmention
# barnabywalters eschnou: yeah, but maybe more useful than that one ;) one actually focused around *reading*
# eschnou barnabywalters, well, it is quite similar to the google plus ripples, I don't think the primary focus here is reading, more like grasping the spread of a conversation accross nodes.
# willnorris or a ripples style UI would be great as well: (e.g. https://plus.google.com/ripples/details?activityid=z125dt4qywbjzxct322hcvzimtebslkul&context=z125dt4qywbjzxct322hcvzimtebslkul)
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: I meant one webmention per thread
# sandeepshetty if it's replying to mutiple posts then there will be multiple posts
# barnabywalters bret: pretty good thanks :) just working on some mundane stuff — editing UIs, comment deletion UIs
# sandeepshetty this remote dude is at 12:49 AM and having a tandoori chicken :)
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: nice :)
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: sorry did not understand
# sandeepshetty lists work well for me
# sandeepshetty haven't thought about it but for now Im thinking yes
# sandeepshetty is typing with one hand with the chicken in the other... so excuse the delays and typos
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# sandeepshetty which in turn will ping it's parent and so on...
# willnorris pfefferle: right, I think you need a third identifier now, in addition to target and source
# willnorris yeah, i know :(
# sandeepshetty each parent uses itself as source...
# sandeepshetty as the target pick up the source and all p-comments
# sandeepshetty below you yes.
# willnorris sandeepshetty: ah, right. so this is no different than sending a follow-up ping if I've updated my entry. I'm just requesting that my page be re-processed, including all child comments on the page
# sandeepshetty willnorris: exactly'
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: you will be parsing the whole page in any case... it just that you pick up more info
# sandeepshetty my current thinking is based on our discussion from yesterday and the new knowledge of p-comments
# sandeepshetty if you want to reply to a comment you do... but you also render comments with the parent post
# sandeepshetty will document this in the wiki
# sandeepshetty in a bit
# sandeepshetty php-mf2 you mean?
# sandeepshetty yeah I need to figure that out as well... right now comments in converspace are only in thwe webmentions table... so my assumption that comment = webmention will break
# sandeepshetty though I can just get away with storing the comment along with children as a blob
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: how does wordpress do threaded comments?
# sandeepshetty others?
# sandeepshetty yes and they can't because?
# sandeepshetty for that comments and it's children... not for the other comments..
# sandeepshetty (blog)
# sandeepshetty *blob
# sandeepshetty I'm sure I'm missing something obvious... could you give me scenario
# sandeepshetty you don't... from your child comments you get the entire tree
# sandeepshetty below it
# sandeepshetty hold that thought... bbiab
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# sandeepshetty pfefferle: back.. now that I have both my hands I'll create a wiki page.. I think I sorta understand what you are talking about.. (comments of comments)... you can add your scenarios to that page
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# sandeepshetty aaronpk, tantek: is there a page that lists what eveyone is hacking on?
# barnabywalters thinks he just got repeat-mention-updates-comment working.
# Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/06/23/1/indiewebcamp linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/Schedule (pingback)
# www.sandeep.io created /comment-propagation (+790) "Created page with "
{{stub}} How we send comments to posts that are themselves comments upstream to the root post? == Brainstorming == * Alice publishes a post. * Bob comments on Alice's post an..."" (view diff)# sandeepshetty pfefferle: I've added the scenario. You can add your scenario as well that doesn't work using this model...
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: re avatar size: I just use what looks good :)
# www.sandeep.io edited /comment-propagation (+152) "/* Brainstorming */ making it clear who doesn't get updates." (view diff)
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# sandeepshetty that last one a good point... could you add it to the page...
# sandeepshetty Issues
# sandeepshetty since Alice's site is the only one that is supposed to have the entire thread.. that last case might not be a problem.
# sandeepshetty and it still works if that happened somewhere downstream.
# barnabywalters food time here too — mmmm rice crackers
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: it shouldn't be difficult to "save the complete conversation" Since your saving allthe children with the comment that is sending the webmention..
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: sorry don't understand "sending the whole stack several times"
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# barnabywalters pfefferle sandeepshetty: I would almost be tempted to say don’t bother to do nested/threaded comments and leave it up to a comment crawling client
# barnabywalters does storing a copy of potentially vast amounts of comments branching off from your content actually enrich your content?
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: that's where I was till yesterday.. like on twitter.. you can always have a client that follows the in-reply-to's and lets you read).. but based on new info yesterday I think it might be doable.. (but maybe not easy)
# barnabywalters Branch has done a very good job of handling this, IMO
# barnabywalters because it mimics the structure of the web
# barnabywalters we don’t need to mimic the structure of the web because we *are* the web
# barnabywalters consider also the fact that we’re not only threading in one direction, we’re also POSSEing and having threaded conversations off those as well
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: +! to "because it mimics the structure of the web - we don’t need to mimic the structure of the web"
# barnabywalters it would be crazy to try to make every implementation aggregate all of that
# barnabywalters as opposed to aggregating the content *directly related* to it, which *enriches* it and provides context
# Loqi 9 files modified, 2 new files in aaronpk/IndieAuth/master by aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/compare/1e5581b2a91b...2dd7d58e26b6
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: the hope is only the root aggregates but I agree with what your saying to some extent
# sandeepshetty aaronpk++
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: though I'm having trouble loging in from persona on mobile chrome
# barnabywalters how about this: each reply collects a reply context, and any comments in-reply-to it. then, we have a browser extension or some other service which crawls all of the in-reply-to, comment and syndication links and builds up a huge graph of each conversation, it’s branches, including POSSEd branches
# sandeepshetty I had a thread reader in mind.. like a service..
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: absolutely
# sandeepshetty you give it a post and it shows you the thread
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# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: yep, and that could be put in a browser extension.
# barnabywalters 1) user is on a reply post page
# barnabywalters 2) user clicks “see whole conversation”
# barnabywalters 3) service crawls in-reply-to, comments, syndication, mentions etc and displays whole conversation
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# Loqi 1 files modified in aaronpk/IndieAuth/master by aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/compare/2dd7d58e26b6...ac3536369331
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: it does if we don't send webmentions to comments we receive
# sandeepshetty s/to/for
# sandeepshetty it doesn't break it.. the links are there to follow..
# sandeepshetty just not in any one place
# barnabywalters pfefferle: you think? I’d say trying to come up with complex ways of aggregating comments and sending mentions upstream is fairly geeky ;)
# @ozten Yo #IndieWebCamp Add rel="me" href="mailto:you@site.me" to log into to http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page with your email address http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10060532/Screenshots/ZrWx.png
# sandeepshetty sending to each node doesn't work cause when the target tries to verify the children don't point to all parent node till root!
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# sandeepshetty I think we've made some good progress if we want to go in that direction... lets park it for now...
# barnabywalters yeah, best sleep on it. I’ll document my ideas on the wiki page
# Loqi 2 files modified in aaronpk/IndieAuth/master by aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/compare/ac3536369331...df7b79e935c4
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: So I went with 'Someone" http://www.sandeep.io/39#likes
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: that doesn’t actually look anywhere near as bad as it sounds
# barnabywalters because “here” is a hyperlink
# barnabywalters might be worth checking for a favicon and using that as the photo?
# sandeepshetty yeah... open to any other suggestions...
# sandeepshetty found this "Gallery of default anonymity" http://www.murketing.com/journal/?p=3098
# barnabywalters 37signals have a blog post about how they designed their default profile photo
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: avoiding the extra call for favicon at the moment
# Loqi 1 files modified in aaronpk/IndieAuth/master by aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/compare/df7b79e935c4...829297bf2b44
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: that feels sexist
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: how so? glancing over I’m not seeing it, but it’s a while since I read that post
# sandeepshetty it's a he
# barnabywalters they do refer to “he” a lot in the first few paragraphs
# ozten fixes his DNS for my self-hosted instance of Smallest Federated Social Wiki http://wiki.aok.io/view/welcome-visitors
# sandeepshetty he by default and the only option
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: the old one is/was, yes. They probably should have noted that the improved ones are better as they’re without gender
# 
KevinMarks though they all seem to have spectacles on
# sandeepshetty oh I though the first one was the one..
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: might be an idea to read a little further in ;)
# sandeepshetty yeah :)
# sandeepshetty I was just alt-tabbing :)
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# barnabywalters is wrapping up the day by starting implementing auto-adding of contacts when I mention all you good people, so I can spam filter later on
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# KevinMarks so what's indieweb speak for "tweet"
# KevinMarks as a noun or verb?
# hadleybeeman I'm just catching up on IRC and posts here... but it looks like you all have had a busy time over there!
# barnabywalters KevinMarks: noun = note, post = verb
# 
@nchenga "POSSE is an acronym/abbreviation for Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere." http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE?utm_source=buffer&utm_campaign=Buffer&utm_content=buffer7d38d&utm_medium=twitter
# caseorganic OH: So, do you feel like you're wearing a Segway on your face?
# hadleybeeman s/posts/notes
# hadleybeeman :)
# hadleybeeman Wow. How thorough of you, Loqi!
# barnabywalters feels like a stalker looking over benwerd’s shoulder at his browser
# @BarnabyWalters @benwerd I can *seeee yooooo*(r browser) ;) #indiewebcamp (http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4QeMJ3/)
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# @benwerd Remote participants at #indiewebcamp. Just ignore the guy in the bottom left ... http://werd.io/view/51c766acbed7decc2f27a221
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# KevinMarks hi Hadley
# mathpunk current IWC project is setting up a vps for the first time. Would anyone like to evangelize/anti-evangelize a service?
# KevinMarks so, anyone in the room can add things to my camlistore. Neat.
# barnabywalters is signing off for the day
# barnabywalters thanks for a great event everyone!
# barnabywalters remote participation just keeps getting better :)
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# sandeepshetty melvster_: you here?
# barnabywalters goodnight all
# sandeepshetty benwerd: your css is broken on chrome (ubuntu)
# sandeepshetty benwerd: think it's a problem with line-height.. sentences are overlapping... trying a hard refresh
# sandeepshetty benwerd: hard refresh fixed it
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# sandeepshetty benwerd: BTW, it's looking good
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# KevinMarks got noterlive.com
# KevinMarks :D
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# brianjesse kevinmarks: nice!
# sandeepshetty !tell pfefferle: you don't have a dt-published for the h-entry http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http://notizblog.org/2013/06/22/like/
# sandeepshetty think it was when barnaby got in touch with me when I published all the activity* stuff I was doing.. including activitydialog which was a similar to webactions
# 
aaronpk huh... just set up webfinger for my email address. http://webfingerclient-dclinton.appspot.com/lookup?identifier=aaron%40parecki.com&format=web
# sandeepshetty why do you ask?
# sandeepshetty tantek: do you need the date as well?
# willnorris aaronpk: you can also just go to client.webfinger.net… same code, but much easier to remember
# aaronpk http://webfingerclient-dclinton.appspot.com was the first result in google
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# sandeepshetty tantek: barnaby's tweet: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2012-10-04#t1349385508, you welcoming me http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2012-10-04#t1349396847, and you telling me that I'm all talk and no code http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2012-10-05#t1349474707
# @benwerd Oh, also, #idno plugins can add arbitrary content to any user's #webfinger profile. eg: http://werd.io/.well-known/webfinger?resource=acct:benwerd@werd.io #indiewebcamp
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: it's the preferred thing now...
# sandeepshetty IIRC they simplifies it and jsut went with the JRD
# sandeepshetty JRD = json version of XRD
# sandeepshetty I can't get myself to use after seeing the activity on the list..
# sandeepshetty sorry don't know enuf.. I just skip read the list
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# Loqi pfefferle: sandeepshetty left you a message 22 minutes ago: you don't have a dt-published for the h-entry http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http://notizblog.org/2013/06/22/like/
# sandeepshetty I'm using it to show the date you published your comment on...
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: For a good summary of the state of webfinger see http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/webfinger/current/msg00694.html and especially this http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/webfinger/current/msg00696.html
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: does the wiki say it's optional?
# KevinMarks I do like tantek's phrase Kanye-UI
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: I'm using uf2: http://www.microformats.org/wiki/microformats-2#h-entry
# sandeepshetty " Properties are all optional" !
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: you'll find links to the latest version on the list for sure..
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: how do you figure out if it's the latest version? (other than being on the list?)
# 
pfefferle aaronpk if it helps: https://github.com/pfefferle/webfinger
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#How_to_display that algo talks about displaying dt-published.. which is what I'm doing
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: IIRC, Blain was the only guy fighting for the small guys and allowing for static files
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: haha
# sandeepshetty pfefferle: yeah I'm following that algo :)
# sandeepshetty as much as possible..
# 
@fdevillamil Starting to rethink my online presence in terms of #POSSE (http://tantek.com/2012/173/t1/posse-core-indieweb-approach). Will need some code (Twitter and Flickr will come first)
# pfefferle if you need a demo http://notizblog.org/.well-known/host-meta or http://notizblog.org/.well-known/host-meta.json
# brianjesse damn I've got web mentions between instances of my own app, but now I see eschnou's post doesn't support it yet!
# brianjesse kevinmarks: tried to sign up and got "The Twitter REST API v1 is no longer active. Please migrate to API v1.1"
# sandeepshetty brianjesse: you could try commenting here: http://www.sandeep.io/39
# brianjesse sandeepshetty: will do!
# sandeepshetty I think eschnou only does pingback
# sandeepshetty and I only do webmention :)
# brianjesse sandeepshetty: i'm going to try to add ping back before 4pm deadline in 34 minutes
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: I should :)
# sandeepshetty brianjesse: (Y)
# aaronpk sandeepshetty: <link rel="pingback" href="http://pingback.me/webmention?forward=http://www.sandeep.io/webmention" />
# sandeepshetty adding it on my next push! (Y)
# brianjesse aaronpk: cool stuff
# 
@_le_fil_ Tantek: just got "View (Conversation) on Twitter" rel=syndication links working from my notes to #POSSE'd twee... http://tantek.com/2013/174/t4/view-conversation-rel-syndication-posse-indiewebcamp?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
# tantek.com edited /syndication-link-use-cases (+1990) "incorporate use case description from Falcon working on to this page to keep the reasoning" (view diff)
# tantek.com edited /posts-elsewhere (+86) "link to syndication link use cases to make it more discoverable" (view diff)
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: just realized as i was adding the link that it wouldn't have worked for benwerd if he had done per post webmention endpoint :)
# sandeepshetty ah yes..
# sandeepshetty I should just go to bed.. my brain isn't working at 4AM :)
# 
waterpigs.co.uk edited /syndication-link-use-cases (+186) "/* Shortcut for web actions */ added note about syndication links being fallback for webactions as well as intermediary stage" (view diff)
# sandeepshetty ok I'll hang around :D
# tantek.com edited /Falcon () "(-1720) got rel syndication links working! moved reasoning/use cases to other generic pages" (view diff)
# brianjesse there is a pingback module for node!
# 
@momoika_z Wonderful #indiewebcamp day 1.
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: hangout url?
# waterpigs.co.uk edited /comment-propagation (+1185) "/* Issues */ added complicatedness issue, brain dumped ideas for über conversation graph viewer" (view diff)
# @benwerd http://www.sandeep.io/76 Sandeep's doing awesome #indieweb work.
# donpdonp tilgovi: i think you are looking for this http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention
# benwerd sandeepshetty: any thoughts on why http://werd.io/view/51c77b6bbed7de3e74ca6bd7 isn't triggering a like for you?
# sandeepshetty what was the response?
# sandeepshetty (to the webmention)
# sandeepshetty pfefferle, aaronpk: let me know when the demos start.. and I'll going the hangout
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# aaronpk barnabywalters: do you know if this bug is fixed in your latest changes to php-mf2? http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2F2013%2F174%2Ft4%2Fview-conversation-rel-syndication-posse-indiewebcamp
# barnabywalters hears talk of mentions. Can someone reinvite me to the hangout please?
# pfefferle benwerd: curl -i -d "source=http://notizblog.org/2013/06/20/5231/&target=http://www.sandeep.io/73" http://www.sandeep.io/webmention
# barnabywalters aaronpk: Looking
# barnabywalters aaronpk: you did install that package right?
# barnabywalters S/mention
# barnabywalters Crap
# barnabywalters Cheers
# @kevinmarks #indiewebcamp @bradfitz: we built http://websfist.org today to do a webfinger like thing without having to change sites
# tantek.com edited /2013/demos (+419) "/* Hack Day Demos */ Brad & Brett WebFist demos" (view diff)
# sandeepshetty benwerd: I can't seem to get to my appfog logs to figure out what happened.
# sandeepshetty try 39
# sandeepshetty waht was the response body?
# sandeepshetty was it empty?
# sandeepshetty benwerd: ok nothing in the logs.. let me add some debug...
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# sandeepshetty benwerd: I'm pushing some code.. I'll test by sending the webmention myself.. what was the other post?
# @kevinmarks #indiewebcamp @bradfitz: send an email to http://webfist.org to set a key, read back as a webfinger query http://webfist.org/.well-known/webfinger?resource=acct:kevinmarks@gmail.com
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# sandeepshetty benwerd: I see the like on /39
# sandeepshetty could you send the other one as well..
# sandeepshetty nope.. did nothing..
# 
bret can anyone tell why my micro formats are not getting parsed when posting replies? http://bret.io/2013/06/23/t2/ http://eschnou.com/entry/testing-indieweb-federation-with-waterpigscouk-aaronpareckicom-and--62-24908.html
# barnabywalters bret: Add p-author to that h-card to declare authorship
# barnabywalters Not all implementations search any further than the author property for h-cards
# barnabywalters bret: looked pretty good to me :)
# sandeepshetty benwerd: I sent a manual webmention for the other one and it showed up: http://www.sandeep.io/76
# barnabywalters benwerd: I replied to your request for a reply but nothing showing up — any idea what the problem is?
# barnabywalters Earlier, then manually about 10 mins ago
# sandeepshetty benwerd: like 2 min ago... I meant I send the webmention for the like on your behalf
# barnabywalters Did you add checking for u-in-reply-to on the URL? Because my reply contexts are a bit weird about that
# barnabywalters The entire h-card is the in-reply-to value
# @kevinmarks #indiewebcamp : now seeing camlistore running on a raspberry pi
# sandeepshetty benwerd: so sandeep.io seems to be working fine.. not sure why your webmentions didn't go through...
# barnabywalters I need to document it
# sandeepshetty I just added some error_log statements (that's all) :)
# @ozten RT @kevinmarks: #indiewebcamp @bradfitz: send an email to http://webfist.org to set a key, read back as a webfinger query http://t.co/…
# sandeepshetty benwerd: where did you send the new one?
# sandeepshetty has to go back and resend all webmentions to fix date issues he had earlier
# barnabywalters bret: Looking at source again — where are you mentioning?
# sandeepshetty benwerd: what do you need.. comment or like?
# barnabywalters Bret: still not quite in the right place — p-author h-card on the same element
# barnabywalters bret: use pin13.net or http://WaterPigs.co.uk/php-mf2 to verify stuff is working properly
# barnabywalters Bret: check out markup of any note on http://WaterPigs.co.uk/notes, and how it parses
# sandeepshetty benwerd: sent but nothing happened
# barnabywalters Image is a property of the h-card which is a property of the h-entry
# sandeepshetty sure...
# sandeepshetty as many as you need :)
# sandeepshetty sent but nothing still.. are you receiving the mentions?
# barnabywalters benwerd: should I try resending mine from earlier?
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# ozten webfist WFM http://webfist.org/.well-known/webfinger?resource=acct:shout@ozten.com well played, sirs
# sandeepshetty benwerd: tried again but nothing..
# sandeepshetty you can also use curl to replay my mention:
# barnabywalters benwerd: Me too, no response :( although actually I’m getting 200 responses
# barnabywalters Which seems a bit weird ;)
# 
@bradfitz RT @kevinmarks: #indiewebcamp @bradfitz: send an email to http://webfist.org to set a key, read back as a webfinger query http://t.co/…
# brianjesse nice like!
# barnabywalters claps
# barnabywalters I’m receiving likes as normal comments
# barnabywalters They should always fall back to sensible content if shown as a comment
# sandeepshetty has a stupid connection that keeps kicking him out of the hangout
# sandeepshetty benwerd: how about just rolling back to when it was working :)
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# @kevinmarks #indiewebcamp @benwerd demos federated likes: http://werd.io/view/51c7870abed7de3205566039 liked http://www.sandeep.io/83 and it noted that
# barnabywalters How long until webmention becomes the Internet?
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# sandeepshetty oops I have duplicate posts from pressing ctrl+R :(
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# barnabywalters Actually goodnight this time :)
# sandeepshetty GN all and thanks. This was fun :)
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