#indiewebcamp 2013-07-31

2013-07-31 UTC
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bret Loqi what is your gender?
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@devseo #socialmedia The IndieWeb as a minimum viable social web ecosystem - http://benwerd.com/2013/07/09/the-indieweb-as-a-minimum-viable-social-web-ecosystem/
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Jihaisse Hello
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bret Hey Jihaisse
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neuro` Hi
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Jihaisse hi neuro` & bret
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bret hey
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bret working on anything neat?
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christopheducamp.com edited /WordPress-fr (-38) "[fr:''Cette page a démarré sur [[WordPress]]'']" (view diff)
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Loqi barnabywalters: tantek left you a message on 7/30 at 10:00am: - yeah, that (cassis+php autolinking unicode) might take some work. mind filing a gh issue on it to at least capture it? thanks!
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tommorris morning barnabywalters
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barnabywalters morning tommorris
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Jihaisse bret: I'm working on wordpress + POSSE
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Jihaisse but not right now
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Jihaisse I'm working for my boss ;)
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Jihaisse hi tommorris & barnabywalters
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barnabywalters morning Jihaisse
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Jihaisse I've just found this plugin for wordpress : http://www.nextscripts.com/snap-features/auto-import-comments-from-facebook-and-twitter/
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Jihaisse maybe interesting to have a look at the code
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Jihaisse this one too : http://wordpress.org/plugins/seo-facebook-comments/
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neuro` Jihaisse: this is PESOS more than POSSE
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barnabywalters neuro`: or http://indiewebcamp.com/backfeed
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neuro` true. forgot about that. need some sleep.
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Jihaisse neuro`: no pb ;)
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Jihaisse I need some sleep too
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Jihaisse pfefferle: the archive of semPress on wordpress is wrong
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Jihaisse the archive is empty
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pfefferle can you give me a link?
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Jihaisse pfefferle: strange, I've just try it now, it's working...
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pfefferle perhaps some caching problems on your server?
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Jihaisse I will try it later directly from the update manager in wordpress
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Jihaisse pfefferle: I've found the bug
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Jihaisse wordpress try to download http://wordpress.org/themes/download/SemPress.1.4.3.zip
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Jihaisse but the right url is http://wordpress.org/themes/download/sempress.1.4.3.zip
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pfefferle hmmm… i updated it via the update mechanism and it worked perfectly
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pfefferle i will have a look
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pfefferle oh, have you installed a github version and tried to update via update-mechanism?
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pfefferle that might be a problem
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Jihaisse yes, that's it
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Jihaisse shure :)
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pfefferle rename the folder to lowercase
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Jihaisse ok
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pfefferle then the update should work
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pfefferle should fix that in the git repo
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pfefferle strange update process anyways
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pfefferle wordpress should search the new theme by the folder name of the installed one...
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pfefferle i mean "shouldn't"
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Jihaisse pfefferle: thank you
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Jihaisse that works
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pfefferle your welcome
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Jihaisse so, I realy need curl installed
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pfefferle ;)
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Jihaisse I'm gonna slap my sys admin
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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neuro` Good morning tantek
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tantek we have an informal #indiewebcamp hack day coming up next week in SF on 2013-08-06, just before the W3C socialweb summit
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tantek who here is in the SF bay area and/or is interested in remote participating?
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gjones tantek I should be able to remote in, also do you need any help with the UK event or is it all sorted
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tantek gjones - can definitely use help with the UK event
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tantek need a co-organizer on the ground who can be here on IRC as well to coordinate
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tantek Aral is taking care of some things, but AFAIK he's never on IRC.
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tantek gjones, do you see Aral regularly?
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gjones More than happy to help, but dyslexia makes me a little slow on IRC front
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tantek gjones - slow on IRC is no problem at all. as long as there is at least some contact. :)
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gjones Yes I do see Aral around we are often only working streets apart
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tantek great
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tantek.com edited /Events (+506) "add 2013-08-06 IndieWebCampSF Hack Day" (view diff)
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tantek gjones, could you add yourself to: http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK#Organizers
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gjones will do, I drop Aral a line off the list and see if there are things I can pick up
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tantek also if you could get Aral to login to the wiki and add his user page that would be great too!
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tantek (co-organizers of indiewebcamp ought to all have a user page on indiewebcamp.com :) )
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tantek.com edited /2013/UK (+176) "Questions for Organizers" (view diff)
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glennjones.net created /User:Glennjones.net (+77) "Add stub page for Glenn Jones" (view diff)
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glennjones.net edited /2013/UK (+38) "Added Glenn Jones as organizers" (view diff)
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adactio.com edited /Main_Page (+1) "/* IndieWebCampUK 2013 */" (view diff)
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tantek :)
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barnabywalters anyone know anything else about the design workshop/clinic Aral mentioned?
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tantek mentioned where?
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barnabywalters on IRC a week or two ago
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tantek oh wow you saw him on IRC!
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barnabywalters indeed :)
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barnabywalters http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-07-19
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barnabywalters specifically http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-07-19/line/1374241668
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (-270) "move indiewebcampuk 2013 closer to the top, two days" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2013/UK (+72) "/* Organizers */ sort, link volunteers" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - new IG spam virus/worm - e.g. see http://instagram.com/dburka
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aaronpk not found?
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barnabywalters this is another one?
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tantek oh weird, people have to web enable their profiles?
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aaronpk ah
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tantek oh crap
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aaronpk that's nice actually
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tantek his account just got deleted!!!
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Loqi lolz
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aaronpk what
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tantek I just reloaded it on my ipod and got user not found
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tantek damn that's nasty
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aaronpk how does that help the worm propagate?
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tantek don't know. maybe overzealous admin action.
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barnabywalters sheesh
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tantek anyway I have the link - screenshotted his profile before it disappeared
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tantek aaronpk - sending to you via Messages / iPod txt
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aaronpk thx
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tantek screenshots of dburka's profile both before deletion, and after
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tantek so weird
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aaronpk wtf weird
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aaronpk jeez that sucks
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aaronpk well in case anyone is interested, check out http://flickstagram.org to export all your instagram photos to flickr as a backup
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tantek and in going through some of my old hand-written "in-reply-to: " links in notes, I'm finding 404s
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tantek yet more real world examples of why it's good to copy reply-context content into your local content store
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tantek the person's twitter account still exists, but they deleted 3 tweets that I'd responded to
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aaronpk well if they deleted them, that also begs the question of whether you should continue displaying them on your site
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tantek it's a good question.
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tantek for something like a tweet - I think of it as fair-use (IANAL) - similar to a blockquote from part of an article
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tantek yet from a social convention perspective, if someone has deleted something you replied to, does that mean they no longer believe what they said?
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tantek even if we do choose to store/display such reply-contexts, would be useful to indicate that the original has been deleted?
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tantek also - this is why h-cite has a dt-accessed property
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tantek perhaps reply-contexts should be marked up with h-cite
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tantek since they are a citation of content from elsewhere
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barnabywalters tantek: ooh good idea
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aaronpk interesting. I like the idea of showing "deleted"
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tantek and you could even display *when* you / your cms retrieved the reply-context info
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tantek and thus mark it up visibly with class="dt-accessed"
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aaronpk I kind of feel like the implication is if you share it publicly then anybody may copy/cite/etc the content, and you can only indicate you deleted it, but you can have no guarantee that it will actually be deleted
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tantek aaronpk - I think that's reasonable
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tantek I'm thinking also from a social etiquette perspective
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barnabywalters aaronpk: agreed. notes are a historical record
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tantek I believe part of the Twitter API TOS requires respecting delete requests
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barnabywalters they solidify opinion at a moment in time
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tantek so yet another reason to not use the Twitter API to retrieve tweet content
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aaronpk yea, it's at least as much a social convention as it is a technical issue
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tantek might be interesting to consider annotating reply-contexts with something like "Apparently deleted" (maybe even with a date) in such cases
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tantek aaronpk - yeah
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tantek I'm more interested in the social convention questions
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aaronpk agreed
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tantek anyway, we can start with marking up the dt-accessed
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tantek note that the entirety of the reply-context content can be marked up as a p-content
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tantek of the h-cite
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aaronpk oh, reply contexts should be marked up with h-cite?
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barnabywalters requiring people to remove any record of a piece of content is the equivalent of requesting people’s minds be wiped after a conversation if you changed your mind afterwards
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tantek heh
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aaronpk lol
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barnabywalters if you changed your mind — great! publish something new, mention known replies to the original
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tantek barnabywalters - though I do think suggesting deletion can be helpful, e.g. comment CRUD
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tantek the Pilgrim Protocol ;)
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barnabywalters then the clarification will pop up as a mention/comment on the note commenting on the original, outdated content
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tantek I'm editing the reply-context markup suggestion accordingly
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tantek I think h-cite is more appropriate than h-entry in this case
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aaronpk I do like the idea of h-cite for the reply context
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barnabywalters we could always use both
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tantek barnabywalters - why?
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aaronpk I avoided marking up the reply ocntext on my site because I didn't want parsers to think the reply was my content
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aaronpk I didn't think of using cite as an explicit way to mark that up
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tantek aaronpk - I just thought it myself
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barnabywalters tantek: if you’re publishing entry data, using h-entry properties, then may as well say it’s a h-entry
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tantek as I was going through more of my in-reply-to code
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aaronpk h-entry inside an h-cite?
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tantek barnabywalters - but it's not your entry
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tantek aaronpk - no, h-cite inside the h-entry of your note
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barnabywalters tantek: so? that much is communicated by the author property
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tantek h-entry for your reply, and embedded inside, h-cite for the reply-context
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aaronpk right, would the h-cite have an h-entry inside with the reply context?
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tantek barnabywalters - it's more accurate to claim you're citing content from that author, than propagating content from that author
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tantek especially given that you don't want to follow delete semantics
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tantek for deleted originals
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tantek aaronpk - no need for an h-entry inside the h-cite
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tantek the h-cite directly handles everything
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aaronpk ah
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aaronpk so it has similar properties as h-entry then?
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barnabywalters to clarify, I was thinking <div class="h-entry h-cite"> not nesting
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tantek barnabywalters - I know, still, no need for that
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tantek and h-entry implies syndication semantics, which are incorrect in that case
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barnabywalters makes sense
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tantek good questions nonetheless
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tantek capturing...
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tantek (see this is why it takes me so long to implement things :) )
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tantek is thinking too hard, and spilling his brain onto the wiki. Pardon the mess.
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barnabywalters okay, pushed
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+518) "/* Markup */ use h-cite not h-entry for reply-contexts, and why" (view diff)
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tantek and now to update my Falcon markup
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tantek ooh - all I have to do is add h-cite to my existing u-in-reply-to! and the u-url and p-name is implied :)
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aaronpk barnabywalters: pushed?
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barnabywalters MAGIC
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barnabywalters aaronpk: .p-in-reply-to .h-cite on note feed and permalink pages
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aaronpk good lord you're fast
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barnabywalters to be fair it involved a change of about 10 characters across two files
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aaronpk er barnabywalters your notes list lost the permalink to your own note. the whole thing links to the reply
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barnabywalters ?
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barnabywalters too fast, apparently
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aaronpk oh, no, my bad. the whole thing underlines on hover, but it links correctly
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barnabywalters yeah, now I have in-feed reply contexts, I’m going to clean that up
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aaronpk yea that's awesome
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barnabywalters so it’s only ever the date and *maybe* location
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aaronpk but the permalink on your own note "In reply to
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aaronpk werd.io 28th of July 2013 at 16:34"
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aaronpk the whole thing underlines on hover
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tantek in-feed reply contexts now make a lot more sense as citations
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barnabywalters yeah. it’s messed up
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tantek rather than nested entries
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aaronpk totally
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tantek not sure why it took me so long to connect those two things
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk so in the case of my tag list, I should keep these all as h-entrys since they're all syndicated from others' sites right? http://aaronparecki.com/tag/indieweb
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@veganstraightedge @mekajfire @lalavalse If you want to help build the future, I encourage you to join the #indieweb set.
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tantek aaronpk - I think the h-entry semantic implies you can syndicate *from* it as well
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tantek not just that it was syndicated from others' sites
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tantek off to lunch. bbiab!
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barnabywalters so, I just realised something…
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barnabywalters posting in this IRC channel is probably the easiest, quickest way on the web to publish h-entry data
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tantek :)
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barnabywalters are webmentions sent for the permalink pages?
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aaronpk barnabywalters: we talked about sending webmentions before, and decided it would need to be restricted to a whitelist of people whose IRC lines got sent out
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aaronpk using the irc-people page
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barnabywalters ah very good plan
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aaronpk that would also mean the h-entries published could link to the person's website and image URL
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aaronpk http://kennethreitz.org/why-i-left-medium/
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f-a nice article, aaronpk
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aaronpk hah awesome, I pasted in his tweet in my site and it auto-corrected the reply-to URL to his own domain
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/kennethreitz/status/362640550098255872
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@kennethreitz New blog post! “Why I Left Medium” http://kennethreitz.org/why-i-left-medium/
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aaronpk like this: http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/04/25/1/original-post-discovery
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bret.io created /events/2013-08-06-hack-day (+91) "Added a stub gust list" (view diff)
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tantek catches up on the IRC references that barnabywalters made
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tantek goodness a third day of indiewebcamp on design!
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tantek great - looking forward to seeing the workshop/design clinic posted on indiewebcamp.com/events
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aaronpk fun fun!
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bret where is that going to be?
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tantek bret - Brighton, see http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK for details
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bret oh its apart of the UK camp :) Not going to be able to make that one :(
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tantek hello indiewebcamp-vis - pick a name using /nick yournamehere
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tantek fascinating thread: https://twitter.com/marcoarment/statuses/362613401861636098
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@marcoarment Writers: You don’t need Medium. You can host your own blog on your own domain with lots of other tools and hosts.
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aaronpk lol
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/ironicsans/status/362635220199026688
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@ironicsans @marcoarment I’ve been confused over why anyone self-assigns a piece, writes something good, then posts it on someone else’s site for free.
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aaronpk sounds like the benefit most people are getting out of it is the distribution network
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/joshuaziering/status/362673821335040000
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@joshuaziering @marcoarment @Stammy Medium has the one feature built in that I want -- an audience.
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tantek also a great article: http://adrianshort.org/2011/09/25/its-the-end-of-the-web-as-we-know-it/
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aaronpk oh nice, he's also using the landowner/tenant analogy
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tantek we have a name for people just looking for a blanket "audience" of randoms rather than connecting with people through relevance (read: search and word-of-mouth discovery of your content). Spammers.
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tantek.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+157) "add 2011 It's the end of the web as we know it article" (view diff)
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aaronpk that's not entirely fair
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tantek.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+91) "add 2013 Why I Left Medium" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - what else do you call people indiscriminately looking for an audience? what else is sending messages without consideration to the relevance of those messages to the sender besides spamming?
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neuro` Shouting in a forest hoping someone's gonna hear you?
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f-a especially that tree which is falling
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aaronpk I think you just said it. Using a platform like medium, forbes, wired, etc, is not "without consideration" since they have an established audience that has certain expectations, and the people writing are trying to follow those expectations
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tantek really? I'm not sure what specific expectation is being set/met by medium. Forbes means somewhat of a business filter. Wired means somewhat of a tech filter. But medium? It's just … misc.
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tantek Aaronpk - what sources are your tag pages aggregating from? e.g. as you said: http://aaronparecki.com/tag/indieweb
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aaronpk currently that is things I've replied to or replies to my posts
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tantek I don't think Medium has a specific audience except "readers" - which means pure numbers. Just like spam doesn't have a specific audience except email readers.
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aaronpk considering adding things I've "starred" on Twitter as well
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tantek aaronpk - whoa - really - you're aggregating comments / others posts into that too
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tantek interesting
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aaronpk yea, it was kind of a side effect of something else and I kind of liked it so I left it
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aaronpk two interesting points re: medium: https://twitter.com/bronwynjones/status/362680649817137152
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@bronwynjones @joshuaziering @marcoarment @Medium And making Editor’s Picks as a nobody is a little ego boost, untrivial to any self-disrespecting writer.
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/joshuaziering/status/362681231785209857
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@joshuaziering @bronwynjones @marcoarment @Medium More imprortantly, it might give you the exposure you need for the next project.
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aaronpk "Editor's Picks" <-- validation from an outside party. everybody always likes that
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tantek why not do Editor's Picks from across the web?
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aaronpk totally
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aaronpk i'm bringing it to attention because these are things we'll need to be able to address
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tantek "give you exposure" - more spammer like language
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tantek.com edited /tags (+444) "add IndieWeb Examples section with example of aaronparecki.com/tag/indieweb" (view diff)
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neuro` aaronpk: your site theme is a little bit confusing if I may: you're using the same underlined color for links, hashtags with links, Twitter accounts without links and hashtags without links. Hard to know where to click
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aaronpk neuro`: can you give me an example of twitter accounts without links and hashtags without links?
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aaronpk afaik anything that looks like a link should be a link. it's basically just default bootstrap
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neuro` http://aaronparecki.com/tag/indieweb @pjf, @eschnou #rss
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neuro` and many more
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neuro` Are blue, but not clickable
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aaronpk oh interesting
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aaronpk they are links. something else is blocking the click
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aaronpk huh, it has something to do with the profile picture covering up the link
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neuro` Oh yes. Didn't even check the source I must say
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aaronpk and there's sometimes like 1 pixel that's clickable
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aaronpk I have no idea why that is. my CSS is not very good anymore.
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neuro` Nothing visible
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tantek.com edited /events/2013-08-06-hack-day (+316) "expand a bit" (view diff)
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