#indiewebcamp 2013-08-12

2013-08-12 UTC
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aaronpk shaners: it was awesome! 33 miles!
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shaners great job!
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tantek nicely done aaronpk!
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shaners aaronpk: do you have any plans to implement photo albums/sets on your site?
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tantek and rel=webmention has been added to the HTML5 link extensions table
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-rel-values#HTML5_link_type_extensions
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@mel_nobbs Has anyone explorered this option - http://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/366717782081011712)
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@CaitlynDawney RT @gaelynnwoods: Is bigger always better? With regards to #books, of course... Chime in on THE BIG HEAT: http://gaelynnwoods.blogspot.com/2013/08/does-size-matter-sorry-all-you-sex.html #indieauth… (twitter.com/_/status/366725451021955073)
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@benwerd Considering crowdfunding idno development. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/366734548266004480)
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tantek ok the indieauth… tweets are getting pretty hilarious
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tantek aaronpk, what do you think of supporting rel=webmention as well as the URL version
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tantek !tell sandeepshetty I've officially added rel=webmention to the HTML5 rel registry and linked to webmention.org as the specification. Would you consider allowing rel=webmention in the spec? I think webmention deserves a keyword rel value like that.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek aaronpk I'm looking at the instructions on webmention.io and it says something about a username
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tantek aaronpk, I'm going to assume by "username" we mean something like what you'd type into a web-sign-in prompt
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tantek :)
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tantek ok I'm going with the simplest possible webmention link header that could work with one link element, rel=webmention
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tantek going to blow off pingback support for now
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tantek to help encourage sending of webmentions rather than pingbacks (I'm ok using my site for that)
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tantek aaronpk - added <link rel="webmention" href="http://webmention.io/... etc. to all my permalinks.
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tantek let me know when you receive something / anything :)
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@benwerd Idno and the #indieweb at the W3C Workshop on Social Standards #osfw3c http://werd.io/entry/52084ebabed7defe68c9efb0/idno-and-the-indieweb-at-the-w3c-workshop-on-social-standards-osfw3c (twitter.com/_/status/366754893177962498)
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cjopcjop evening
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tantek !tell benwerd very nice post: http://werd.io/entry/52084ebabed7defe68c9efb0/idno-and-the-indieweb-at-the-w3c-workshop-on-social-standards-osfw3c
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /osfw3c (+72) "headings" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2013/osfw3c (+232) "Blog Posts About" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2013/osfw3c (+628) "event" (view diff)
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Jihaisse Hello
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SRCR hi
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christopheducamp.com edited /POSSE-fr (+5134) "[fr: sync'd translation - added CRUDE concept to be reviewed]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /repost-fr (+3601) "[fr:first draft translation]" (view diff)
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Jihaisse is someone make POSSE to g+ ?
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tommorris Jihaisse: people have tried but it doesn't really work.
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tommorris Christophe doing FR translations on IWC wiki == WIN!
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neuro` Yes, xtof has been doing a great translation job since the early days of Microformats.
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pdurbin Jihaisse: g+ doesn't have a write API
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cweiske you can't display ads in 3rd party clients :)
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neuro` pdurbin: there are workarounds though but they're unreliable and crappy.
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pdurbin neuro`: huh. ok
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neuro` pdurbin: but you're right, no real API (just like Instagram)
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pdurbin neuro`: ok. I like to declare things that were true at one time so people can correct me if there's been a change :)
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pdurbin the world population is 5 billion people ;)
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Jihaisse thanks tommorris, neuro` adn pdurbin
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Jihaisse * and
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Jihaisse finger dislexic
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Jihaisse so we just have to wait for google...
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barnabywalters apparently wordpress.com is not only a silo but a cowardly silo: http://oliverhotham.wordpress.com/2013/08/11/the-sordid-tale-of-how-i-was-censored-by-straight-pride-uk/
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tommorris oh my, Straight Pride UK. super-duper-mega-trolls.
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barnabywalters I had never heard of them until today. that knowledge has not improved my life hugely.
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tommorris I thought it was just one dude with a Twitter account, but if they are now sending out DMCA takedown requests, perhaps it's slightly less rinky-dink than I thought
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tommorris the whole thing is utterly facepalm
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@NievesGlez .RT @dhinchcliffe: "About 85% of business activity is non-transactional, and this is why we need social tools #osfw3c Y la #Biblioteca ? (twitter.com/_/status/366927314598105088)
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@bienve RT @NievesGlez: .RT @dhinchcliffe: "About 85% of business activity is non-transactional, and this is why we need social tools #osfw3c Y la … (twitter.com/_/status/366936910356156417)
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@dellasm RT @wordsprof: Backstage at the trailer shoot - 1 way authors can use #Pinterest: http://pinterest.com/stevepiacente/400-pages-in-2-minutes-the-bootlicker-trailer/ #selfpubl #booktrailers #indieauth… (twitter.com/_/status/366939159694286848)
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@gfxman Great time in SFO last week at the #osfw3c #socbiz event. Feeling tired this week as s result of lots of work and walking between locations. (twitter.com/_/status/366940881867120643)
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@CreatusSeries RT @wordsprof: Backstage at the trailer shoot - 1 way authors can use #Pinterest: http://pinterest.com/stevepiacente/400-pages-in-2-minutes-the-bootlicker-trailer/ #selfpubl #booktrailers #indieauth… (twitter.com/_/status/366942670909743106)
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@mueller_seba RT @dhinchcliffe: "Social analytics are a key part of a #socbiz solution." - @MCrawfordUSNvet #osfw3c Yep. Here's why: http://t.co/I0djFW1z… (twitter.com/_/status/366943718357483522)
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp
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tommorris hey tantek
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tantek reads up on re: censorship mention above
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neuro` Good morning tantek
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tantek well how about that - another citation for the "why" page
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tantek tommorris, care to write this one up?
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tommorris can do
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tantek (instance of wordpress.com caving to dubious DMCA request and thus censoring)
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cweiske so what prevents the people filing a DMCA request at your hoster?
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tantek cweiske - know of any examples?
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tommorris BoingBoing ;)
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cweiske no. just asking
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tommorris they get lots of DMCA takedown requests. probably because people want to troll Cory Doctorow.
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tantek IANAL - no idea why it doesn't (seemingly) work to send requests to hosters.
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tantek but don't know of any examples
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barnabywalters it’s also slightly more tricky to figure out who’s hosting your site than to just see wordpress.com in the URL
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tommorris The legal reasoning behind DMCA works just as fine for web hosting companies as it does for social media sites.
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cweiske use the IP address on maxmind.com, and you have the hoster
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barnabywalters well yeah, it’s still trivial. but still more difficult
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tommorris (I've never actually had a DMCA request.)
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barnabywalters a slightly higher barrier to entry could help prevent requests like this one, which is pretty much a joke
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tommorris It's something that would require a geek rather than a lawyer (or someone who can write like a lawyer, which is not the same thing).
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neuro` What about YMCA?
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neuro` (sorry, going back to sleep)
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tommorris left his leather daddy gear at home, alas.
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tommorris if you find takedown requests entertaining, here's a funny one: http://tommorris.org/posts/2599
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tantek indeed, "more difficult" may be sufficient for folks that can't even proofread a press release for glaring spelling/grammar errors.
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barnabywalters tantek: exactly
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tantek basically, don't provide technical assistance to trolls
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aaronpk tantek: +1 for rel="webmention"!
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aaronpk i'll update my mention-client library accordingly
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tommorris.org edited /why (+949) "adding bit on DMCA takedowns" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /why (+115) "/* Why Indie Web */ expanding bit about adult content removal" (view diff)
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tantek thanks tommorris
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aaronpk interesting post about social networks and the future of twitter+facebook https://medium.com/i-m-h-o/e09e789d297
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tommorris aaronpk: I think one of the things that is missing is the distinction between social media and social software.
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tommorris look at early last.fm. it was a "social network", it was an app that's useful for users because other people use it
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tommorris AudioScrobbler as it then was.
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@dellasm RT @WriteJoMichaels: No, they aren't geriatric marathons! http://jomichaels.blogspot.com/2013/08/gerunds.html Find out what a gerund is. #amwriting #writetip #indieauth… (twitter.com/_/status/366962371907956738)
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barnabywalters these #indieauth(or) tweets just get better and better
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tommorris heh
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tantek.com edited /why (+155) "move takedown why to just after blog removal, note suspension threat" (view diff)
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@veganstraightedge I'm all in on HTML. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/366967014599827456)
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tantek.com edited /2013/osfw3c (+240) "/* 11:30 - 13:00 Use cases and Requirements */ add clarifying bullet point from Ann Bassetti sent via email (presumably stated in presentation), re: Boeing developed their own tool, in use by half the company" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2013/osfw3c (+409) "added more subhead wiki markup for easier presentation referencing, and a bit more text from recall" (view diff)
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@appfusions RT @webtechman: @appfusions YW! It's great to see WOA (Web-Oriented Architecture) gaining adoption in the Enterprise! #SocBiz #osfw3c @w3c (twitter.com/_/status/366991137547878401)
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@appfusions RT @gfxman: Great time in SFO last week at the #osfw3c #socbiz event. Feeling tired this week as s result of lots of work and walking betwe… (twitter.com/_/status/366991174373875714)
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@appfusions RT @dhinchcliffe: "Social analytics are a key part of a #socbiz solution." - @MCrawfordUSNvet #osfw3c Yep. Here's why: http://t.co/I0djFW1z… (twitter.com/_/status/366991186960986113)
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aaronpk shaners: re: posting photo collections, I think I'm going to take an SOA approach to that
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tantek aaronpk - I'm curious how benwerd is doing photo hosting
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aaronpk I don't really want to build a photo management system and interface into p3k, but I do already have the front-end done at http://photos.aaron.pk/ (it's a clone of my flickr stream)
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bret reading the note about the photos. we should try to take pictures at all the events, even the minor meetups
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tantek bret - strongly agreed
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bret bummed we missed that at the last 3ish meetups
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tantek we've been pretty good about it at microformats meetups and that helps build / continue a sense of community
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tantek notes that no group photo was taken at the osfw3c workshop
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bret nope :(
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aaronpk bummer, would have been a good location for the photo too
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tantek bret, aaronpk, e.g.: http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2013-05-14-microformats-google-io#Photographs
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aaronpk but yea I don't think I want to host photosets in p3k, but I would definitely share a link to a photoset and even have an inline preview of the content
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tantek bret - take photos and post them! :)
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bret I will from now on!
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tantek also - a good reason every such indieweb meetup should have its own wiki page
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bret right
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tantek where we can drop in notes, photos etc.
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tantek we have a reasonable pattern of that on the microformats wiki
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bret plus I don't have any visual proof I got to kick it at mozilla for the day
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tantek feel free to borrow and re-use what you see as useful
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bret ^_^
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tantek bret - indeed!
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tantek that would've been a good photo of all of us hacking away
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bret what was the name of the guy who joined us briefly?
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bret i think it started with a p
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bret he did the funny tweet about how power point presentations *definitely* couldn't be reproduced in html
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tantek I did create a wiki page for it: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2013-08-06-hack-day
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tantek bret - @_pius
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tantek I think he was here in IRC for a bit too
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tantek different topic: since IFTTT has been discussed here as a possible POSSE solution (I think tommorris is still using it), this may be of some interest: http://open.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/12/nytimes-channel-on-ifttt
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tantek bret - sorry - I updated the wiki page for it. YOU created the wiki page :)
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tantek so let's do more of that
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bret oh yeah huh
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bret :) sure thing
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tantek I mean, well done :)
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tantek what does it mean to have your own IFTTT channel?
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tantek https://ifttt.com/nytimes
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bret you tied your API into their API and then...
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tantek is there an indieweb equivalent?
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tantek what would it mean to create an IFTTT channel for a specific indie web site?
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bret They use polling in a lot of cases
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aaronpk you can do that using RSS already
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aaronpk I have an alert set up any time specific authors write posts on readwriteweb.com by following that author's rss feed
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tantek aaronpk - so the question is, can we do "it" (whatever it is) with just our HTML+microformats and avoid duplicating data in RSS?
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aaronpk also I get xkcd comics emailed to me that way
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bret tantek: i think ifttt is primarily a UX thing
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@markuslanthaler RT @ciberch: Thanks, but I still don't want to write RDF #osfw3c JSON-LD now is starting to intrigue me... (twitter.com/_/status/366997281075380224)
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aaronpk so we would need ifttt to implement an h-entry channel
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tantek a-ha
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tantek perhaps even have them deploy sandeep's h-entry to Atom converter?
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tantek or write an h-entry to RSS converter?
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aaronpk actually they don't specify RSS or Atom, I suspect they take both
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aaronpk they say "New feed item" with the orange RSS logo
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bret that thing basically is interchanged with atom at this point
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aaronpk shortest path for them would be to deploy the h-entry to Atom converter internally and make it recognize h-entry pages as a "feed" under the same orange RSS button
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bret they would be the first major service to consume h-atom right?
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bret as a feed
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neuro` Evning
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bret hey neuro`
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tantek bbiab
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@alphenic Why not post on Medium? https://medium.com/indieweb-thoughts/9d0e36524dbf https://medium.com/surveillance-state/19a5db211e47 https://medium.com/writers-on-writing/336300490cbb #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/367023119363350528)
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SRCR_ Does indieauth break on an https site ?
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bret SRCR: like, if your personal website is https?
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SRCR euhm, yes it is
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aaronpk it works with some, but not if your ssl cert is from an unknown cert authority
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aaronpk have had some trouble with that from a few people
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aaronpk also you have to make sure your github/twitter/whatever profile links directly to your https site, not to http
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SRCR aaronpk: I have a certificate from StartSSL.com not selfsigned, indieauth isn't scanning the site so I asume this might be the issue.
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aaronpk i'll have to check if the startssl CA is in the server's list
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SRCR aaronpk: nothing urgent, but would be nice if you could do this.
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aaronpk what is your site?
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Loqi your site is in front of a lod balancer or a proxy
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SRCR for testing purposes my site is now on http :)
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tantek SRCR - pretty cool you have SSL setup on your personal domain
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SRCR srcr.nl
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SRCR Startssl has free certs.
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aaronpk actually can you open an issue on indieauth with the link and info? https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth
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tantek aaronpk, loqi, LOL
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SRCR I'll added it on github, thanks aaronpk
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aaronpk thx
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SRCR And than my site fails on the auth?token= stuff :) back to the drawing boards.
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message on 8/11 at 10:28pm: very nice post: http://werd.io/entry/52084ebabed7defe68c9efb0/idno-and-the-indieweb-at-the-w3c-workshop-on-social-standards-osfw3c
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benwerd tantek - thanks!
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aaronpk benwerd: awesome! can you post that to indienews?
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benwerd aaronpk: I can indeed do that, and apologize for not doing that already
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aaronpk yay!
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Loqi giggles
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bret shaners: You should talk with Pius next time he is around. He has re-prototyped the medium posting interface we were talking about in portland… its coming along quite nicely
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shaners sweet
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bret http://pius.me this guy
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shaners is that pronounced like Prius?
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tantek I think in-person he pronounced it like pie-us
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tantek next time he's here let's ask him to add himself to irc-people
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tantek ...
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tantek danbri, try signing into http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:UserLogin with danbri.org
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danbri just did
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danbri it worked, pretty smooth
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danbri i generally get that openid sinking feeling w/ such tools, like you really hope it'll work but never know for sure
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tantek hopefully you got less of a sinking feeling than with openid :)
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tantek danbri - excellent!
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tantek danbri - try adding yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people
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tantek see if edits work for you basically
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danbri odd, i saw [edit] buttons on other pages but not there
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tantek [edit] buttons are to the right of heading
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tantek headings
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danbri ah, headings yeah
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tantek the Edit button for the page is in the footer
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tantek or the standard mediawiki keyboard shortcut (ACCESSKEY E) works
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danbri.org edited /IRC_People (+47) "danbri" (view diff)
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danbri tada
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tantek sweet!
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tantek now click on your name there and create a minimal user page
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danbri.org created /User:Danbri.org (+19) "you said minimal" (view diff)
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tantek lol - that's pretty darn minimal
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tantek.com edited /User:Danbri.org (+41) "h-card for Dan" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieAuth (+94) "link to IndieAuth spec to make it more discoverable" (view diff)
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tantek does anyone here understand what the phrase "social business" means in this context? http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/