#aaronpkWRT the problem of inserting past posts when my URLs are numbered sequentially, I'm thinking about moving to an entirely timestamp-based URL scheme
#aaronpkthen as long as I don't have two posts on the same second I won't collide
#tanteklooks like are at capacity for IndieWebCampUK
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#gjonestantek your right its a shame the venue will not allow more people, there is space but they have a limit for the whole building and there are other events on - Aral should ask to see if we could up it a little
#gjonesIt depends on how they are setup, the max capacity for the main room is 60 people - we do skillswap meet ups there and you can get that many in if you have the seats in rows. The other room max is 30 people
#gjonesThat's because the rooms are going to be setup around tables and those are the rough number of seats for that type setup. We can move things around if we need to fit in more people in
#tantekI wonder if we may use the lobby for small discussions
#gjonesAral is going to ask today, its still only 7:30am here! Sounds like we may get some flexibility on numbers - will get back to the list when I find out more
#tantekcan you simply use the IndieWebCamp logo as is?
#tantek(gjones can you simply use the IndieWebCamp logo as is?)
#@aralFree is one of the most confusing words in the English language. Free as in liberty = good Free as in cost = not always good #indiedata (twitter.com/_/status/374785664472350720)
#cweiskeusers only click the twitter login button, they don't have to read the dev specs
#barnabywalterscweiske: that original argument was faulty anyway, I explicitly said the three point list was an accurate description of the things which have to be in place for indieauth to work
#barnabywaltersin fact, the twitter sign-up process can be quite a pain — verifying email addresses, going through the tour where they try to get you to follow a bunch of celebrities
#barnabywaltersthere’s potential for indieweb set up processes to be much quicker and easier
#barnabywaltersbut we’re not at the stage where that is a high priority for many of us
#cweiskethe initial point I made was that you're comparing apples with oranges when comparing indieauth end user setup specs with twitter dev specs
#barnabywaltersat the moment indieauth dev specs are also the end user specs IN SOME CASES e.g. if you’re building from scratch. if using a tool like storytlr the end user specs are “click this twitter connect button”
#barnabywaltersalso worth noting that at least three people on the list identify as non-programmers (xtof, Leonardo) or “writer more than tinkerer” (Corey Pein)
#waterpigs.co.ukedited /2013/UK (+181) "/* Waiting List */ added note about cancellations and possible extra space to waiting list description" (view diff)
#adactioI disagree. I think it's a real shame that people like Laura and Natalie were putting off coming to the event. We run the risk of being seen as elitist and unwelcoming to newcomers.
#tantekadactio - hence we have the apprenticeship option
#tantekneuro` I think the question is why were they putting off
#adactioI think the apprenticeship demarkation is a bit condescending.
#neuro`translating putting off as it doesn't seem to mean what I thought
#tantekadactio - here in the US it has really helped filter out the blowhards (who have typically dominated social web discussions)
#tantekand in that regard, yes, forcing blowhards to confront themselves with apprenticeship (which yes, is hierarchically below being a creator) self-selected them out
#barnabywaltersLaura and Natalie seem to be talented designers+developers who are very capable of adding rel=me to their sites, from their tweets it sounded like they don’t see enough value in the event to want to participate
#tantekall previous social/identity web gathering like things have been very unproductive because of blowhards
#LauraJit depends on the support structures offered to the apprentice - i'd be happy to be an apprentice if it meant people would help me, but not if i was just allocated to an apparently lower grade bucket. agree that buckets are useful though
#adactioI agree that people should be encouraged to sign up using their own site (and maybe get a nice badge for doing so) but I don't think people should be made feel like an apprentice/padawan/whatever if they sign up a different way.
#neuro`+1 tantek, French barcamps were f%$#@ up because of this.
#tantekeven the Federated Social Web Summit in 2010 was dominated by privacy-wonks who talked loudly about privacy but NEVER did anything
#tantekand distracted all the productive conversations
#tantekadactio - I don't think it's too much to ask that for *indie* *web* camp to do <5min setup on your own site.
#LauraJI think it's ok if you are really upfront and overt: 'this is a techie build event, everyone is going to build stuff, if that's not for you no worries as you can do XYZ at a later date to get involved'
#tantekif <5min setup is too much work, then why is the person wanting to spend 2 days there?
#tantekin Portland and SF we've had meetups/drinkups which are open to all
#tantekfor more informal conversations where there is no expectation of getting anything done
#barnabywalterslikewise, the reykjavik remote party for IWC 2013 was open to all
#tantekadactio - *every* *single* *time* that anyone could show up to a federated/social/identity web event - it's been very unproductive.
#tantekso separating people into self-selected buckets has so far been *the only* solution to that that's worked. if you have an alternative suggestion, I'm sure everyone here would be happy to listen to it.
#barnabywaltersLauraJ: true, it might be worth clarifying that on the event page
#barnabywaltersand also pointing to other event pages without the sign-up barrier
#tantekthe reality is that getting on the indieweb and making it work is *hard*, and we shouldn't pretend that it's not
#tantekputting a small (even deliberate) barrier to a sign-up process which involves some of those very steps to get on the indieweb is a good litmus test for folks
#LauraJtantek: well, from where i stand, mainstream is facebook :) HTML I think these days is probably techie :) (my interest is in seeing indieweb succeed which means tools in use by really *lots* of people, so my scale of mainstream vs techie may not match other people's :) and i agree it's a good thing to create a focussed event
#tanteklike, are you willing to at least try this hard, if so, you have a chance of making an indiewebsite, if not, you likely have no chance.
#LauraJ@tantek: i think it's a nice idea. I would probably have been a bit intimidated to join as one - having to contact some stranger and ask if they wanted an apprentice would probably have been scary :) but maybe as events get bigger etc it will be a little less scary (eg column for creators to say "would like to work with an apprentice" :) so it's more obvious where apprentices fit in
#tantekLauraJ - you're in IRC now, contacting strangers :)
#LauraJbut if all goes well there will be lots more events etc and opportunities later
#neuro`We (at Publify) fell into this trap before removing half of the features and focusing on our use of the software (minus the visual editor none of us use)
#tanteka-ha this is an excellent suggestion: column for creators to say "would like to work with an apprentice"
#barnabywaltersoh cool — it was OKF I was thinking of, I may well be wrong though
#LauraJbarnabywalters: we are kinda large now ;) OKF central hasn't, I think, acquired a Mccarthy, but one of our local groups may have
#tantekLauarJ - was looking at the OKF event site - noticed the schedule and venue pages could use some microformats ;)
#LauraJfwiw although i can't make it to brighton, and my coding skills are rusty in the extreme (i'm an embedded systems person anyway not web!) I'd happily have sent money/pizza/whatever, which isn't exactly possible on the site
#barnabywaltershm, I thought we had a “sponsor us” link somewhere
#LauraJbarnabywalters: i'm not a sponsor, though, just a person with some cash, here ;)
#LauraJtantek: :) maybe a little late now - but agree. I'll try to make sure we do better next time. always a tricky balance between paid-shoestrings and volunteers, as our events have always lost money
#gluegadgetHi! I found out about this project from the wired article. A couple of days ago I joined this channel, and read some of the posts. I also logged into indiewebcamp.com, and searched the wiki for a list of the projects/ideas IndieWebCamp would like to see improved/implemented, but couldn't find anything. Is there such a list? Or am I blind? Or I totally mistook what this camp is for?
#tantekbarnabywalters, what do you think of trying to "launch" IndieMark at the end of IndieWebCampUK 2013?
#tantekI think Level 0 and Level 1 are pretty solid, and with your (and aaron and other advance indie site folks') help, I think we can make Levels 2-3 solid as well.
#barnabywalterstantek: by launching you mean, making it official? encouraging people to figure out what their mark is and note what they can do next?
#barnabywalters“If you're in town the evening before the conference, come along to our pre-party at The Terraces bar from 7:30pm on Thursday, September 5th. We'll also be doing pre-registration there so you can pick up your badge.”
#barnabywalterscool. Exeter and plymouth seem to be quickly building active web communities
#ShaneHudsonYeah I have heard a lot about it. Though doesn't seem anywhere near as big as Brighton or even Chichester/Portsmouth areas (which are btw amazing for web communities)
#barnabywaltersyeah, the problem is there are loads of people doing cool stuff, they’re just so spread out it’s tricky to get them all in a room together at the same time
#tantekhey aaronpk - could you suggest to caseorganic that she use smaller (pref 128x128) photo in the RSVP list so the table doesn't get so blown out so as to truncate the fourth column (e.g. what ShaneHudson just added)
#tanteklooks for additional ways to narrow the columns in the table to see more text.
#tantekjust realized we need to redirect the Sidebar "IndieWebCamp Events" quick links to specific pages for IndieWebCampUK 2013
#tantekright, hoping you're able to selfdogfood it while working on it :)
#ShaneHudsonWordpress at the moment, not done as much selfdogfooding as I would like to be honest. I've always planned to, so this weekend should be a good way to get going with ti
#barnabywaltersjust talking to briansuda about dinner meetup, remembered that dconstruct lanyards often bring discounts, also we might be able to get group discount at somewhere like GBK
#barnabywaltersso easiest to leave venue decisions to the last minute
#ShaneHudsonWill there be a dinner on the Sunday night?
#aaronpkit's funny cause telecoms have been doing that with phone numbers for years
#aaronpkit's just a very different thing when a phone number is redirected. there's the first part of the conversation that people use to negotiate whether they're talking to the right person
#aaronpkthat doesn't exist in email, you just get the whole message. it would be like answering the phone and the other person just starts blabbing.
#jernsta lot of large ISPs recycle too if I remember this correctly from discussions in OpenID days
#jernstso a sequential identifier (or something like that) was introduced to be able to distinguish between the accounts, and the new account holder did not inherit access rights to the old account holder's accounts on relying parties
#tanteksame problem obv is true with DNS in general. forget to renew your domain, and have it squatted by a spammer or pr0n site
#jernstPersonally I think there should be a public key behind it that can be retrieved, and possession of private key be challenged, and if not matched, site ownership may have changed
#jernstlots of stuff gets published, the question is how does it ever get used?
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#tantekjernst - publishing something on your blog is one of the best ways to help it get discovered (e.g. by search), which increases the chances of it being used.
#tantekpublishing on an email list, even with an archive, is a good way to make sure it's lost forever
#tantekpretty sad/funny/ironic that Googlers are so email-list centric in their discussions, standards etc., and yet, Google *sucks* at indexing/surfacing results from mailing list archives
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#tantekonce in a while I poke my Google friends about this and they just sigh
#tantekhere's the WebID wiki page. if you ignore the RDF/FOAF parts (substitute HTML/hCard), the protocol parts are interesting.
#tantekunfortunately the group is dominated by Uppercase SemWeb types and so the whole WebID effort is boatanchored by the baggage of RDF/FOAF.
#tantekwe should capture our own internal differences in opinion on such matters
#tantekdo we need a meme for the indieweb without web suggestion that Aral made?
#tantek"If you're trying to be a part of the indieweb without a web site, you're gonna have a bad time."
#waterpigs.co.ukedited /short-domains (+296) "/* add more short URL domains here */ documented my criticism of short domains, lack of personal interest in one" (view diff)
#barnabywaltersif you’re trying to be part of the web with no hyperlinks, you’re gonna have a bad time
#bretI don't actually know. Anyway shaners, re our conversation a movement ago, count me as a maybe. I want to make it to LA, but I am not sure if I will be able to do so yet.
#shanersbret: ok. but if it ain't on the wiki, it's not real. ;)