#indiewebcamp 2013-09-03

2013-09-03 UTC
tantek and matthewlmcclure joined the channel
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aaronpk
WRT the problem of inserting past posts when my URLs are numbered sequentially, I'm thinking about moving to an entirely timestamp-based URL scheme
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aaronpk
then as long as I don't have two posts on the same second I won't collide
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aaronpk
this URL http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/09/01/1/mint would become http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/09/01/9W/mint (9W = 9:30 in newbase60. I could assume a 2-char time portion implies ":00" seconds)
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aaronpk
the time portion would be based in the local timezone of the post just like the date portion is
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aaronpk
this would let me go back and insert a post at 8:30am (/8W) if I needed to later
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aaronpk
for example, when syncing posts created while offline!
hupili joined the channel
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aaronpk
curious about your thoughts in particular, tantek
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tantek
oh hello
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aaronpk
hi. been IRL most of today.
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tantek
me too
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tantek
but watching logs
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tantek
btw NewBase60 makes for particularly good H:M:S compression
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aaronpk
exactly
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tantek
I mean, you can keep the 3 digits
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aaronpk
ah yea, guess I don't really need to save the 1 char
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tantek
each of H,M,S uses exactly 1 NewBase60 digit
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tantek
precisely
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aaronpk
yea that was why I wanted to new it in particular to compress the time component
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aaronpk
s/new/use/
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Loqi
aaronpk meant to say: yea that was why I wanted to use it in particular to compress the time component
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tantek
I did consider this in the design of NewBase60 - of how it would be applicable to minutes/seconds particularly well
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aaronpk
if the year weren't 36*5* days it would be awesome for compressing the day too :P
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tantek
and the nice thing is, the first digit (hours) is particularly readable since it's just 0-9A-N
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tantek
or rather, guessable
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tantek
easily decodable - not necessarily readable, until you get good at decoding ;)
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tantek
aaronpk - the 36*5* problem is precisely why I decided to go with "days since epoch start"
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tantek
which fits nicely in 3 digits
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aaronpk
ah yea that's good
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tantek
thus 3 digits for the date, and 3 for the h:m:s
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tantek
that's why I chose epoch start days
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aaronpk
so my short URLs would be 6 chars exactly
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tantek
I almost decided to do that
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tantek
and then realized I didn't post often enough
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aaronpk
er, 7 cause of the post type
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tantek
your short paths at least ;)
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aaronpk
yeah I prefer the more readable and longer format for the full URL
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tantek
definitely
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tantek
!tell barnabywalters since you were conversing back/forth with Aral, want to reply to https://twitter.com/aral/status/373919098805440512 with a link to http://indiewebcamp.com/On_Evolving_IndieAuth_Followup ?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek
oh neat - Loqi is smart enough not to expand tweet URLs in !tell messages
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aaronpk
fsvo "smart"
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@aral
@aaronpk Thanks, Aaron, will read tomorrow :)
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tantek
it's probably because your post completely debunked his ;)
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neuro`
Morning
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tantek
evening :)
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tantek
neuro` we decided to move xtof to "creators"
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neuro`
tantek: and you were right. I backlogged last night.
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neuro`
I think he confused Indiewebcamp in general and indiewebcamp UK for that apprentice thing.
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neuro`
And translation is still creation.
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tantek
indeed it is
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tantek
so is customizing wordpress or plugins etc.
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neuro`
I think we all agreed that xtof's not an apprentice anyway.
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tantek
indeed
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tantek
hello gjones!
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tantek
looks like are at capacity for IndieWebCampUK
LauraJ joined the channel
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gjones
tantek your right its a shame the venue will not allow more people, there is space but they have a limit for the whole building and there are other events on - Aral should ask to see if we could up it a little
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tantek
do you know the capacity of each room?
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tantek
hello LauraJ
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LauraJ
morning folks
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gjones
It depends on how they are setup, the max capacity for the main room is 60 people - we do skillswap meet ups there and you can get that many in if you have the seats in rows. The other room max is 30 people
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gjones
I will DM Aral now and ask the question
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tantek
cool - we should note the room capacities on the wiki
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tantek
LauraJ - want to add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people ?
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tantek
gjones - current wiki says 30 people and 15 people: http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK#Space
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tantek
(capacity in the rooms)
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gjones
That's because the rooms are going to be setup around tables and those are the rough number of seats for that type setup. We can move things around if we need to fit in more people in
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tantek
oh ok - that sounds good
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tantek
I wonder if we may use the lobby for small discussions
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gjones
Aral is going to ask today, its still only 7:30am here! Sounds like we may get some flexibility on numbers - will get back to the list when I find out more
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tantek
great
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gjones
I think the main lobby will have an exhib on part of brightondigitalfestival.co.uk and one of the reason for the overall number limits
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tantek
speaking of brightondigital - were we able to get added?
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LauraJ
tantek: can do - sadly not going to make it in person
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tantek
oh sorry to hear that!
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tantek
maybe remote participation?
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@aral
Facebook and Google will offer you the Freeternet. Ask: why is it free? What’s is their business model? #indiedata
(twitter.com/_/status/374784417602232320)
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LauraJ
tantek: we'll see - kinda busy organising okcon.org ;)
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tantek
gjones any chance of getting IndieWebCampUk listed in http://www.brightondigitalfestival.co.uk/events/?filter_dates=7,8 ?
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@aral
The Freeternet is not the Internet. #indiedata
(twitter.com/_/status/374784523768463360)
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@aral
There is no such thing as a free service. #indiedata
(twitter.com/_/status/374784644396642304)
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@renedx
RT @aral: There is no such thing as a free service. #indiedata
(twitter.com/_/status/374784719676014592)
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@nternetinspired
RT @aral: Facebook and Google will offer you the Freeternet. Ask: why is it free? What’s is their business model? #indiedata
(twitter.com/_/status/374784771727310848)
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@braempje
RT @aral: There is no such thing as a free service. #indiedata
(twitter.com/_/status/374784872378015745)
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gjones
I am a stack out with a lot of other stuff and the process involves creating artwork etc - but I will see if I can look at it late tonight
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tantek
LauraJ - cool - open knowledge sounds good
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tantek
can you simply use the IndieWebCamp logo as is?
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tantek
(gjones can you simply use the IndieWebCamp logo as is?)
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@aral
Free is one of the most confusing words in the English language. Free as in liberty = good Free as in cost = not always good #indiedata
(twitter.com/_/status/374785664472350720)
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tantek.com
created /logo (+23) "for now"
(view diff)
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gjones
I will have a look at tonight, I need to get on with work as I have a full day ahead and not much time to get everything done :)
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@prashantsani
RT @aral: Facebook and Google will offer you the Freeternet. Ask: why is it free? What’s is their business model? #indiedata
(twitter.com/_/status/374798501726527488)
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nightlight.ws
edited /2013/UK (+372) "/* Creators */"
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@jantjeman
RT @aral: There is no such thing as a free service. #indiedata
(twitter.com/_/status/374802279049994240)
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@8DH
RT @aral: Facebook and Google will offer you the Freeternet. Ask: why is it free? What’s is their business model? #indiedata
(twitter.com/_/status/374803910319288320)
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@sockethub
@snarfed_org thanks for the kind words. your project is a great piece for an indieweb server and could compliment future sockethub apps
(twitter.com/_/status/374808410509701120)
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@julien51
RT @aral: There is no such thing as a free service. #indiedata
(twitter.com/_/status/374808426142248960)
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melvster
so google play will now take over your phone ... great
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melvster
"If you ever question the power of Google Play Services, try disabling it. Nearly every Google App on your device will break."
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lbj.org.uk
edited /IRC_People (+47) "added lauraj"
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andreypopp, KevinMarks and musigny joined the channel
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Loqi
barnabywalters: tantek left you a message 6 hours, 41 minutes ago: since you were conversing back/forth with Aral, want to reply to https://twitter.com/aral/status/373919098805440512 with a link to http://indiewebcamp.com/On_Evolving_IndieAuth_Followup ?
matthewlmcclure and adactio joined the channel
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neuro`
barnabywalters: your reply context UI is great
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barnabywalters
neuro`: thanks!
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barnabywalters
hopefully it’s helpful for others to build on
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barnabywalters
I basically copied twitter and then evolved it to handle some issues I was finding
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barnabywalters
like adding a max-height after replying to an article :)
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@fruitingbodies
Genuine question: why is there only 1 women out of 28 creators on #indiewebcamp guest list? http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK#Guest_List
(twitter.com/_/status/374844167823708160)
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /2013/UK (+157) "/* Guest List */ Added big red “full” warning, moved Mime Cuvalo to waiting list"
(view diff)
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@aral
@BarnabyWalters Thanks, interesting points. Although I believe we’re missing the forest for the trees (problem with point”by”point replies).
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@BarnabyWalters
@cuv82 really sorry but I had to move you to the waiting list for IndieWebCampUK — we’re at capacity, currently… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4RrAqh/
(twitter.com/_/status/374847132312027136)
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cweiske
barnabywalters, about the followup: "Compare with: https://dev.twitter.com/docs/auth/sign-twitter (how Twitter sign-in works and how to set it up)." - most users ever read that
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cweiske
so that's a moot comparison
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cweiske
how to setup indieauth vs. twitter auth
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cweiske
users only click the twitter login button, they don't have to read the dev specs
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barnabywalters
cweiske: that original argument was faulty anyway, I explicitly said the three point list was an accurate description of the things which have to be in place for indieauth to work
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barnabywalters
NOT a process
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barnabywalters
the process could be clicking on a twitter connect button
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barnabywalters
and in some cases (storytlr) it is
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barnabywalters
conflating an accurate technical description with an end-user process is a faulty argument
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cweiske
but the difference is that as *end user*, you have to follow the technical description for indieauth
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cweiske
you don't have for twitter
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barnabywalters
cweiske: not true — if you use storytlr, you can click a button
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cweiske
barnabywalters, but not for your setup
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barnabywalters
cweiske: this is true. however, my setup is for me to use
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cweiske
I didn't mean your own specific setup
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barnabywalters
and because I understand indieauth, I didn’t need to build a system to make it easy
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barnabywalters
then which setup?
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cweiske
I mean everyone's setup
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cweiske
before he can use indieauth
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barnabywalters
everyone’s setup is different and therefore the process of setting up indieauth will vary in difficulty+complexity
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cweiske
but you still have to read the tech specs for indieauth
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barnabywalters
cweiske: no, whoever developed the tools you’re using has to
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barnabywalters
just like people developing tools for twitter have to read the tech specs
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cweiske
but the end users that want to sign in don't have to read the twitter dev specs
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cweiske
for indie auth, users that simply want to sign in have to do a setup on their seite
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cweiske
s/seite/site/
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Loqi
cweiske meant to say: for indie auth, users that simply want to sign in have to do a setup on their site
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barnabywalters
yes, just like people who want to be able to log in with twitter need to set up a twitter account
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barnabywalters
at the moment, it’s a lot easier to set up a twitter account
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barnabywalters
hopefully, that will not always be the case
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barnabywalters
in fact, the twitter sign-up process can be quite a pain — verifying email addresses, going through the tour where they try to get you to follow a bunch of celebrities
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barnabywalters
there’s potential for indieweb set up processes to be much quicker and easier
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barnabywalters
but we’re not at the stage where that is a high priority for many of us
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cweiske
the initial point I made was that you're comparing apples with oranges when comparing indieauth end user setup specs with twitter dev specs
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barnabywalters
at the moment indieauth dev specs are also the end user specs IN SOME CASES e.g. if you’re building from scratch. if using a tool like storytlr the end user specs are “click this twitter connect button”
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@gavinwye
Brighton friends I'm hanging this weekend after @dconstruct was planning on going to @indiewebcampuk but it's full anyone fancy meeting up?
(twitter.com/_/status/374857325624193024)
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@xtof_fr
30 participants #indiewebcamp : http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK#Guest_List @t @fdevillamil : @nicolas2fr will help us to support #indieweb in hreflang="fr"
(twitter.com/_/status/374863018649079810)
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@aral
Upcoming events: Sept/Oct 2013 http://aralbalkan.com/scribbles/upcoming-events-september-and-october-2013/ BDF, my residency at Lighthouse, Prometheus, #indiedata, talks at 7 conferences, …
(twitter.com/_/status/374874529811939328)
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@i_am_prometheus
RT @aral: Upcoming events: Sept/Oct 2013 http://aralbalkan.com/scribbles/upcoming-events-september-and-october-2013/ BDF, my residency at Lighthouse, Prometheus, #indiedata, talks at 7 confe…
(twitter.com/_/status/374874608400609280)
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@onishiweb
RT @aral: Upcoming events: Sept/Oct 2013 http://aralbalkan.com/scribbles/upcoming-events-september-and-october-2013/ BDF, my residency at Lighthouse, Prometheus, #indiedata, talks at 7 confe…
(twitter.com/_/status/374876435892436992)
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@indiewebcamp
@fruitingbodies good q. Portland #indiewebcamp is ~25% women. Last year #IndieWebCampUK also had only 1 woman. Join us @IndieWebCampUK!
(twitter.com/_/status/374886526523412480)
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barnabywalters
Regarding gender balance at indiewebcamp UK, I have been wondering about it too
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barnabywalters
I know of two women who expressed interest but for reasons cited didn’t sign up:
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@laurakalbag
I need to sign up for @IndieWebCampUK, but I keep giving up because hoops.
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@nd_kane
@laurakalbag I need to sign up but aside from numerous hoops, lack of apparent self-usefullness. @IndieWebCampUK
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barnabywalters
also worth noting that at least three people on the list identify as non-programmers (xtof, Leonardo) or “writer more than tinkerer” (Corey Pein)
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@helloanselm
Oh I particularly don't like @lanyrd being part of @eventbrite. Strongly think we need some independence here. #indieweb +ping @tobiastom
(twitter.com/_/status/374894093312483328)
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@BarnabyWalters
@helloanselm some of us @indiewebcamp-ers have been working on independent event hosting and cross-site RSVPs, check… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4RrE1j/
(twitter.com/_/status/374894990914506752)
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tantek
whoa eventbrite bought lanyrd?!?
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tantek
wow congrats to the Lanyrd crew - I hope they're able to maintain their permalinks :/
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barnabywalters
yep, sounds like they’re keeping lanyrd.com up
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@FrankDelporte
The #indiedata movement aims to create, support, and popularize products to own your digital self (data, tools,...) - http://aralbalkan.com/notes/indie-data/
(twitter.com/_/status/374899438361145344)
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jordan.io
edited /2013/UK (+249) "/* Remote Participants */ added myself"
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tantek
barnabywalters - we've had many noshows for IndieWebCamp in Portland
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tantek
we should add a note like wait list folks are almost certain to get in
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tantek
or at least about first 10 on the waitlist
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tantek
based on experience
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barnabywalters
tantek: okay, you know more about it than me
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barnabywalters
it’d be a pity to disappoint people if it turns out they can’t get in
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tantek
it's been more a pity to have unused capacity when people were eager to use it
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tantek
besides there's plenty to do at the Brighton Digital Festival that weekend even if we're full up
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tantek
so that makes it better
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barnabywalters
provided there’s sufficient warning
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tantek
ok so for IndieWebCamp 2013, out of 50 (full) slots, we had:
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tantek
4 people drop out "last minute" (anywhere from a day to morning of) - and gave notice
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tantek
and 10 people just "no show" and not give any notice
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tantek
(yes we're keeping track who signed up and didn't even bother to send regrets therefore blocking others from signing up when we were full)
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tantek
as people gave notice we added people from the wait list
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tantek
but just FYI - we 20% pure no-show at IWC 2013
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tantek
so if we have a similar % at IWCUK 2013, then that ~6 people
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barnabywalters
yep, that works out
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tantek
ok I'll leave it up to you to decide on the wording for the wiki (both the red text and top of the Wait List section)
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tantek
just asked adactio to add himself to the Creators list
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /2013/UK (+231) "/* Creators */ added optimism"
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /2013/UK (+63) "/* Creators */ clarification"
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /2013/UK (+181) "/* Waiting List */ added note about cancellations and possible extra space to waiting list description"
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barnabywalters
tantek: ^^ for your review
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /2013/UK (-1) "/* Waiting List */ removed excess column"
(view diff)
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barnabywalters
we’ll have to find a bigger venue for next year :)
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tantek
yes! this is a good problem to have.
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tantek
speaking of which - we should be posting (bragging :) ) about IndieWebCampUK filling up!
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tantek
(and encouraging more waitlist sign-ups)
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barnabywalters
despite aforementioned sign-up barrier
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tantek
it means the sign-up barrier worked actually
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tantek
as a good filtering mechanism
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tantek
congrats to all those that completed the sign-up quest! :)
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adactio.com
edited /2013/UK (+280) "/* Creators */"
(view diff)
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neuro`
Yeah, was really a bitchy UX nightmare (sorry, was easy)
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tantek
neuro` you should post about how easy it was.
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tantek
too many whingers out there ;)
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neuro`
tantek: I had an issue signing up because of http(s), that would be a lie then :)
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tantek
neuro` maybe point that out ;)
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adactio
I disagree. I think it's a real shame that people like Laura and Natalie were putting off coming to the event. We run the risk of being seen as elitist and unwelcoming to newcomers.
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tantek
adactio - hence we have the apprenticeship option
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neuro`
adactio: why were they refused?
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tantek
neuro` I think the question is why were they putting off
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adactio
I think the apprenticeship demarkation is a bit condescending.
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neuro`
translating putting off as it doesn't seem to mean what I thought
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tantek
adactio - here in the US it has really helped filter out the blowhards (who have typically dominated social web discussions)
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tantek
and in that regard, yes, forcing blowhards to confront themselves with apprenticeship (which yes, is hierarchically below being a creator) self-selected them out
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barnabywalters
Laura and Natalie seem to be talented designers+developers who are very capable of adding rel=me to their sites, from their tweets it sounded like they don’t see enough value in the event to want to participate
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barnabywalters
but I could easily be misinterpreting that
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neuro`
I'll +1 adactio on that one, but which word should we use then? padawan?
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tantek
neuro` indeed. and padawan is an apprentic
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tantek
s/apprentic/apprentice
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: neuro` indeed. and padawan is an apprentice
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neuro`
tantek: I know, but it sounds less condescending (imo)
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adactio
I think you're missing the point: separating people into buckets (whatever those buckets are called) isn't great, in my opinion.
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tantek
neuro` maybe this is cultural? in the US, being someone's apprentice is not a bad thing.
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tantek
adactio - we've had to (separating people into buckets) in order to be productive
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neuro`
tantek: probably.
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tantek
all previous social/identity web gathering like things have been very unproductive because of blowhards
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LauraJ
it depends on the support structures offered to the apprentice - i'd be happy to be an apprentice if it meant people would help me, but not if i was just allocated to an apparently lower grade bucket. agree that buckets are useful though
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tantek
InternetIdentityWorkshop
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adactio
I agree that people should be encouraged to sign up using their own site (and maybe get a nice badge for doing so) but I don't think people should be made feel like an apprentice/padawan/whatever if they sign up a different way.
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neuro`
+1 tantek, French barcamps were f%$#@ up because of this.
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tantek
even the Federated Social Web Summit in 2010 was dominated by privacy-wonks who talked loudly about privacy but NEVER did anything
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tantek
and distracted all the productive conversations
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tantek
adactio - I don't think it's too much to ask that for *indie* *web* camp to do <5min setup on your own site.
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LauraJ
I think it's ok if you are really upfront and overt: 'this is a techie build event, everyone is going to build stuff, if that's not for you no worries as you can do XYZ at a later date to get involved'
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tantek
if <5min setup is too much work, then why is the person wanting to spend 2 days there?
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tantek
in Portland and SF we've had meetups/drinkups which are open to all
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tantek
for more informal conversations where there is no expectation of getting anything done
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barnabywalters
likewise, the reykjavik remote party for IWC 2013 was open to all
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tantek
adactio - *every* *single* *time* that anyone could show up to a federated/social/identity web event - it's been very unproductive.
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tantek
like 100%
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tantek
so separating people into self-selected buckets has so far been *the only* solution to that that's worked. if you have an alternative suggestion, I'm sure everyone here would be happy to listen to it.
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barnabywalters
LauraJ: true, it might be worth clarifying that on the event page
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barnabywalters
and also pointing to other event pages without the sign-up barrier
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adactio
tantek: I don't.
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tantek
LauraJ - is editing HTML actually "techie" any more?
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tantek
adactio - so that's the thing then - we're going with this "good enough" solution until we come up with something better
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tantek
especially difficult when venue capacities are limited
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tantek
last year we were not even close to capacity problems - so we relaxed it for indiewebcampuk
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tantek
this year we filled up about a week before the event WITH the deliberate sign-up barrier!
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@BarnabyWalters
So @indiewebcampuk is over-capacity! Really looking forward to meeting you all in Brighton. If you’re interested i… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4RrF5Z/
(twitter.com/_/status/374911045535805440)
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tantek
the reality is that getting on the indieweb and making it work is *hard*, and we shouldn't pretend that it's not
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tantek
putting a small (even deliberate) barrier to a sign-up process which involves some of those very steps to get on the indieweb is a good litmus test for folks
#
LauraJ
tantek: well, from where i stand, mainstream is facebook :) HTML I think these days is probably techie :) (my interest is in seeing indieweb succeed which means tools in use by really *lots* of people, so my scale of mainstream vs techie may not match other people's :) and i agree it's a good thing to create a focussed event
#
tantek
like, are you willing to at least try this hard, if so, you have a chance of making an indiewebsite, if not, you likely have no chance.
#
tantek
(with current tools, software etc.)
#
adactio.com
edited /2013/UK (-48) "/* Guest List */"
(view diff)
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tantek
LauraJ - my longer term goal is also seeing IndieWeb succeed and grow
#
tantek
but not just raw #s
#
tantek
if you want raw #s, there's already WordPress
#
tantek
as a movement, software, community
#
LauraJ
i think you have the right balance this time :)
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tantek
MUCH bigger than the IndieWeb
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barnabywalters
I think we all have mainstream success for the indieweb in the back of our minds
#
tantek
LauraJ - what do you think of the apprenticeship option?
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barnabywalters
but we recognise that aiming for+designing for that from the beginning is not likely to produce effective results
#
tantek
barnabywalters and the opposite is true
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neuro`
barnabywalters: design for the masses at the beggining never solved anyone problems
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tantek
designing for enthusiasts is how every successful tool today got started
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neuro`
and we know it too much to fall into this trap
bnvk joined the channel
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tantek
neuro` it is curious how people keep falling into the "design for the masses at the beginning" trap
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tantek
I wonder if that trap is recommended somewhere in a book or something
#
tantek
where does it come from?
#
tantek
because the data (on how mass successes actually started out) shows the opposite.
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neuro`
tantek: pride.
#
tantek
neuro` perhaps. but you would think pride, like ego, would make the person focus *first* on themselves.
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tantek
rather than seeking validation by mass adoption.
#
tantek
so perhaps it is pride + insecurity?
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neuro`
When you start building a tool you plan to release, it's human to try to solve every problem on earth
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neuro`
instead of just self dogfooding
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LauraJ
@tantek: i think it's a nice idea. I would probably have been a bit intimidated to join as one - having to contact some stranger and ask if they wanted an apprentice would probably have been scary :) but maybe as events get bigger etc it will be a little less scary (eg column for creators to say "would like to work with an apprentice" :) so it's more obvious where apprentices fit in
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tantek
LauraJ - you're in IRC now, contacting strangers :)
#
LauraJ
but if all goes well there will be lots more events etc and opportunities later
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neuro`
We (at Publify) fell into this trap before removing half of the features and focusing on our use of the software (minus the visual editor none of us use)
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tantek
a-ha this is an excellent suggestion: column for creators to say "would like to work with an apprentice"
#
tantek
see now I always thought "apprentice" sounded so much better than "minion"
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barnabywalters
LauraJ: oh that’s a brilliant idea!
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barnabywalters
yep we certainly need to add that section for future indiewebcamps
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tantek.com
edited /2013/UK (+6) "/* Creators */ emphasize hopefulness"
(view diff)
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@Brighton_RT
RT @BarnabyWalters: So @indiewebcampuk is over-capacity! Really looking forward to meeting you all in Brighton. If you’re interested i… htt…
(twitter.com/_/status/374913461614280704)
#
barnabywalters
LauraJ: (tangent) am I getting things mixed up or do you help run the organisation who recently hired Smari Mccarthy?
#
LauraJ
barnabywalters: not that i am aware of :) I'm Open Knowledge Foundation & Makespace Cambridge
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@indiewebcamp
RT @BarnabyWalters: So @indiewebcampuk is over-capacity! Really looking forward to meeting you all in Brighton. If you’re interested i… htt…
(twitter.com/_/status/374913743408218112)
#
barnabywalters
oh cool — it was OKF I was thinking of, I may well be wrong though
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LauraJ
barnabywalters: we are kinda large now ;) OKF central hasn't, I think, acquired a Mccarthy, but one of our local groups may have
#
tantek
LauarJ - was looking at the OKF event site - noticed the schedule and venue pages could use some microformats ;)
#
LauraJ
fwiw although i can't make it to brighton, and my coding skills are rusty in the extreme (i'm an embedded systems person anyway not web!) I'd happily have sent money/pizza/whatever, which isn't exactly possible on the site
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barnabywalters
hm, I thought we had a “sponsor us” link somewhere
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LauraJ
barnabywalters: i'm not a sponsor, though, just a person with some cash, here ;)
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tantek
LauraJ - oops, that's our fault
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barnabywalters
LauraJ: same thing :)
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tantek
the tradition with BarCamp is a *very* low barrier to entry for sponsoring
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tantek
like even just coffee
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barnabywalters
I’m bringing badges, am I a “sponsor”? ;)
#
tantek
barnabywalters - sounds good
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LauraJ
tantek: :) maybe a little late now - but agree. I'll try to make sure we do better next time. always a tricky balance between paid-shoestrings and volunteers, as our events have always lost money
#
LauraJ
good feedback though, thanks!
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LauraJ
goes clicks paypal button
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tantek
I think I can volunteer Mozilla to buy coffees for folks
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tantek
or tea is that's your cup of
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tantek
s/is/if
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: or tea if that's your cup of
ozten joined the channel
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tantek
welcome ozten
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ozten
tantek: howdy
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@brightonews
RT @BarnabyWalters: So @indiewebcampuk is over-capacity! Really looking forward to meeting you all in Brighton. If you’re interested i… htt…
(twitter.com/_/status/374915048793440256)
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tantek
ozten - a bunch of us found your notes from FSWS2010 and were (re)reading it the other day: http://ozten.com/psto/2010/07/19/federated-social-web-summit-notes/
#
ozten
Oh cool, glad that was useful
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tantek
you accurately predicted the difficulties that Salmon would have
#
ozten
re-reads
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tantek
ozten btw - I made a page for the FSWS (since the original stuff has become quite lost at W3C :( ) - http://indiewebcamp.com/Federated_Social_Web_Summit
#
Loqi
it'll be ok
#
tantek
yes Loqi, yes it will
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@LaurieJ
Sadly not going to be at @indiewebcampuk - but donated to support #openweb & individual control over our own data http://indiewebcamp.com/how-to-sponsor
(twitter.com/_/status/374915789943758848)
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Loqi
yeah!
#
tantek
gjones - do we still need sponsors for food/coffee/snacks etc.?
#
gjones
I was going to cover £200 from my company. Why has someone offered
#
tantek
I am offering to cover coffees on behalf of Mozilla
#
tantek
if there's some way I can put it on my card when I get to Brighton I can do that
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neuro`
I've sent 50$, if it can pay a few pizzas
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tantek
hopes aaronpk is keeping track of "recent" donations to put toward IWC UK :)
#
tantek
aaronpk - perhaps you can coordinate sponsorship/donations with gjones?
#
tantek
gjones - in other words, please ping aaronpk about recent paypal donations to help cover IndieWebCampUK costs. Thanks!
#
tantek.com
edited /challenges (+418) "added Citations to process"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /challenges (+12) "see also other things to do"
(view diff)
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@aral
@_Jordan Yep. And people who understand the implications for privacy, civil liberties, and human rights now & in the future. #indiedata
(twitter.com/_/status/374922499152429056)
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tantek.com
edited /To-do (+428) "help out with indiewebcampuk, Process Criticism"
(view diff)
benprew joined the channel
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@sdether
RT @aral: There is no such thing as a free service. #indiedata
(twitter.com/_/status/374925700706222080)
#
gluegadget
Hi! I found out about this project from the wired article. A couple of days ago I joined this channel, and read some of the posts. I also logged into indiewebcamp.com, and searched the wiki for a list of the projects/ideas IndieWebCamp would like to see improved/implemented, but couldn't find anything. Is there such a list? Or am I blind? Or I totally mistook what this camp is for?
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barnabywalters
welcome gluegadget!
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gluegadget
thanks barnabywalters
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barnabywalters
indiewebcamp is primarily about scratching your own itches and building tools you use yourself
#
barnabywalters
so we don’t maintain a list of things we’d like to see built
#
barnabywalters
but you can see what we’re building on the indiewebcamp.com/projects page
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barnabywalters
gluegadget: what’s your personal site?
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gluegadget
barnabywalters: gluegadget.com
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barnabywalters
there’s also http://indiewebcamp.com/indiemark if you want some ideas for things to work on to improve your own site
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gluegadget
barnabywalters: I see, thanks for the explanation.
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tantek.com
edited /IndieMark (+109) "/* Level 0 */ add summary"
(view diff)
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barnabywalters
tantek: is it worth clarifying what acceptable subdomains are (e.g. not siloed foo.squarespace.com etc) or is that too nitpicky?
#
tantek
barnabywalters subdomain of your own domain yes
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /IndieMark (+23) "/* Level 0 */ clarified domain"
(view diff)
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gluegadget
reading /indiemark, and I think I'm getting it :)
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tantek.com
created /FSW (+34) "r"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
created /fsw (+34) "r"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
created /fsws (+41) "r"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
created /fsws2010 (+55) "r"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
created /fsws2012 (+60) "r"
(view diff)
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tantek
wow - there were ZERO posts hashtagged #fsws2011
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tantek.com
edited /IndieMark (+305) "improve Level 1 summary and some other minor edits"
(view diff)
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tantek
gluegadge - hopefully that makes Level 0 and Level 1 easier to skim/read
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tantek
s/gluegadge/gluegadget
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: gluegadget - hopefully that makes Level 0 and Level 1 easier to skim/read
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@nicolas2fr
RT @xtof_fr: 30 participants #indiewebcamp : http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK#Guest_List @t @fdevillamil : @nicolas2fr will help us to support #indieweb in href…
(twitter.com/_/status/374932651360010240)
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tantek
barnabywalters, what do you think of trying to "launch" IndieMark at the end of IndieWebCampUK 2013?
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tantek
I think Level 0 and Level 1 are pretty solid, and with your (and aaron and other advance indie site folks') help, I think we can make Levels 2-3 solid as well.
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barnabywalters
tantek: by launching you mean, making it official? encouraging people to figure out what their mark is and note what they can do next?
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barnabywalters
hah, “official”
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tantek
well, at least remove "draft" from the Levels (which I stuck on there to indicate their level of flux)
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tantek
at least start removing draft from the lower levels
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tantek
let's plan on *at least* launching Levels 0-1
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aaronpk
tantek: unfortunately we haven't gotten any donations other than what I've specifically asked for for IWC 2013 PDX
#
tantek
and hopefully Level 2 and possibly Level 3
#
tantek
aaronpk - odd, as a couple of people above say they clicked the paypal button
#
tantek
maybe paypal is holding back the moneys?
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barnabywalters
we need to start accepting bitcoin donations ;)
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tantek
I remember Aral had trouble with them with the Update conference
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aaronpk
oh? let me double check then. could be the paypal notification went to spam
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aaronpk
oh! sure enough. just this morning, and hadn't gotten to my inbox yet!
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tantek
woot!
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Loqi
does a happy dance!
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aaronpk
great. well I'm happy to either bring cash, or buy stuff from my card while there. I'm arriving on Thursday
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tantek
I too am arriving Thursday
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barnabywalters
ditto — are you guys planning on making the pre-party?
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barnabywalters
I might be there in time
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tantek
I'll be in Brighton by noon local time.
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aaronpk
is dConstruct only one day?
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aaronpk
I'll be in Brighton by 11:30am Thursday, and am going to try to stay awake as long as possible
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tantek
me too
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aaronpk
barnabywalters: where's the info on the pre-party?
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barnabywalters
I’m getting in later on, probably around 19:00 or 20:00 local time
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tantek
when do you arrive at LHR?
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: it was in the email Jeremy sent around
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barnabywalters
if you don’t have a copy I can dig it out
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aaronpk
barnabywalters: I don't have that email
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aaronpk
email--
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Loqi
email has -1 karma
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aaronpk
tantek: I land at LGW at 10:30am
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barnabywalters
“If you're in town the evening before the conference, come along to our pre-party at The Terraces bar from 7:30pm on Thursday, September 5th. We'll also be doing pre-registration there so you can pick up your badge.”
#
aaronpk
oh! dconstruct preparty?
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neuro`
Evening aaronpk
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aaronpk
I don't think I'm officially registered, so Amber probably has that email
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barnabywalters
there’s also an after-party, which is straight after the conference and in the Dome’s bar
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aaronpk
neuro`: good morning
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barnabywalters
which should be a big improvement over last year
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tantek
aaronpk I arrive LHR 07:10
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tantek
I expect immigration+customs to take 90+ minutes
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aaronpk
oh right, forgot abotu that
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aaronpk
I haven't traveled to a foreign english-speaking country before
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tantek
just be polite, and don't say you're there "for work" - (they'll misinterpret it as "employment" and ask LOTS more questions)
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tantek
you're going for a web conference :)
#
tantek
(no joke, I know of stories of people getting sent back)
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barnabywalters
the whole moving-between-countries thing is broken
#
tantek
we all live in country-silos
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aaronpk
I wonder how this other airport is going to be. I'm glad we're not landing in Heathrow
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: it’s my first time coming in via Gatwick too
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adactio
aaronpk: your Thursday evening involves coming to the speaker's dinner with Amber—though we can head on to the pre-party afterwards.
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aaronpk
adactio: awesome thanks!
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adactio
aaronpk: no problem. Looking forward to seeing you both.
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tantek
barnabywalters, want to plan an IndieWeb drinkup/eatup either Thu nt or Fri nt adjacent to the dConstruct parties?
#
tantek
is thinking especially Thu nt since we'll both be around, and maybe some other indieweb folks will be too.
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barnabywalters
I’d be up for friday certainly, I get in quite late on thurs and will need to check into hostel etc
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tantek
getting to know each other informally beforehand has always helped with how well the camps go
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barnabywalters
let me double-check my timings
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tantek
I figured that's why I'd leave it up to you :)
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barnabywalters
I don’t know brighton eating/drinking places very well…
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tantek
we can figure those out easily
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tantek
timing is more challenging
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tantek
Foursquare is quite handy in Brighton ;)
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barnabywalters
okay, I’m getting in to LGW at 19:40, so it’ll be around 21:00 at best before I get into Brighton
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barnabywalters
no, make that 22:00
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barnabywalters
so Fri is probably better for me :)
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barnabywalters
last dconstruct talk finishes at 17:45, with after-party straight afterwards
#
barnabywalters
so meeting up for dinner or something around 18:30-19:00 seems like a workable plan
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@BarnabyWalters
#indiewebcampuk people: up for having an informal dinner meetup Friday (6th) evening around 19:30? Location… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4RrHCX/
(twitter.com/_/status/374942998146351104)
#
ShaneHudson
I will be heading to Brighton Saturday morning from Plymouth, so may be quite late. Hope that isn't too much of a problem!
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barnabywalters
ShaneHudson: you’re from devon too? I’m headed down there for the week after IWC
#
@IndieWebCampUK
RT @BarnabyWalters: #indiewebcampuk people: up for having an informal dinner meetup Friday (6th) evening around 19:30? Location… http://t.c…
(twitter.com/_/status/374943217323876352)
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barnabywalters
ShaneHudson: good to know, we should probably make a note of that so we don’t count you as a last minute cancellation
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ShaneHudson
barnabywalters: Working in Plymouth for the year, from West Sussex :)
#
ShaneHudson
Yeah, don't lock me out!!
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barnabywalters
cool. Exeter and plymouth seem to be quickly building active web communities
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ShaneHudson
Yeah I have heard a lot about it. Though doesn't seem anywhere near as big as Brighton or even Chichester/Portsmouth areas (which are btw amazing for web communities)
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barnabywalters
yeah, the problem is there are loads of people doing cool stuff, they’re just so spread out it’s tricky to get them all in a room together at the same time
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ShaneHudson
very true
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ShaneHudson
Like the stuff we are working on at work (http://portal.marineopec.eu/v3/static/).. I didn't know it even existed until I saw the job vacancy
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /2013/UK (+275) "/* Event Details */ Added friday meetup"
(view diff)
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ShaneHudson
Basically an open source portal for scientific data
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ShaneHudson
Hmm yeah looks like I will not be able to make it until mid afternoon on the Saturday sadly. Even if I leave at 7am I get there at 2pm
nicknovitski joined the channel
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tantek
ShaneHudson - perhaps note that in your "other info" column (last column)
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ShaneHudson
tantek: Ok, will do
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tantek.com
edited /2014/Schedule (+0) "/* Friday, June 27, 2013 - IndieWebCamp Hosted Pre-Party */ typo should be 2014"
(view diff)
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shanehudson.net
edited /2013/UK (+79) "/* Creators */"
(view diff)
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tantek
hey aaronpk - could you suggest to caseorganic that she use smaller (pref 128x128) photo in the RSVP list so the table doesn't get so blown out so as to truncate the fourth column (e.g. what ShaneHudson just added)
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tantek
looks for additional ways to narrow the columns in the table to see more text.
#
tantek
just realized we need to redirect the Sidebar "IndieWebCamp Events" quick links to specific pages for IndieWebCampUK 2013
#
tantek.com
edited /Sponsors (+124) "stub 2013 UK Sponsors section"
(view diff)
#
tantek
e.g. Guest List, Planning, Schedule, Sessions, Sponsors
#
tantek
hmm, need a logo for our venue sponsor Lighthouse
texburgher joined the channel
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ShaneHudson
Btw. how does the format work? Do we work on individual/team projects or one all together?
#
tantek
two day event
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tantek.com
edited /2013/UK (+273) "add To-do section"
(view diff)
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tantek
hmm, looks like the two day description didn't make it over from the other event pages
#
barnabywalters
I think brainstorming in groups on the first day, then building in small groups/individually the second day is how it usually works
vanderwal joined the channel
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tantek
day one is brainstorming, day two is hacking
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ShaneHudson
Ah okay, should be fairly ok getting in late then :)
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tantek
oh I know what happened
#
tantek
IWCUK 2013 went from being 1-day (all mixed brainstorming/hacking) to 2-day
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barnabywalters
ShaneHudson: all the talking will be documented in IRC and etherpad, so you’ll be able to catch up in the evening :)
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ShaneHudson
I have been meaning to integrate the POSSE concept into Ghost, might be something a few of us can do this weekend perhaps
#
ShaneHudson
barnabywalters: excellent :)
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ShaneHudson
I was meaning to come last year but couldn't make it, so glad the ricg meeting in Paris is next week, means I can head down that way!
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tantek.com
edited /2013/UK (+63) "/* IndieWebCampUK */ add day split info"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /2013/UK (+36) "/* Friday */ RSVP for dinner"
(view diff)
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barnabywalters
ShaneHudson: which Ghost? not the recent kickstarter project right?
#
tantek
ShaneHudson do you run Ghost on Shanehudson.net>
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ShaneHudson
I don't yet... due to servers
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ShaneHudson
but as soon as my host gives me a VPS, I will be
#
ShaneHudson
Sicne it needs node, and I prefer to keep control and I like my host
#
tantek
right, hoping you're able to selfdogfood it while working on it :)
#
ShaneHudson
Wordpress at the moment, not done as much selfdogfooding as I would like to be honest. I've always planned to, so this weekend should be a good way to get going with ti
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barnabywalters
just talking to briansuda about dinner meetup, remembered that dconstruct lanyards often bring discounts, also we might be able to get group discount at somewhere like GBK
#
barnabywalters
so easiest to leave venue decisions to the last minute
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ShaneHudson
Will there be a dinner on the Sunday night?
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barnabywalters
last time we headed to a bar afterwards
#
ShaneHudson
Always good :)
#
barnabywalters
they had pretty good food, too. and people were accepting of my freeganish behaviour :)
#
bret
aaronpk, idea for indieauth: Automatically try to authenticate using the last sucessful auth provider when signing in after the first time
#
bret
ill open a ticket and we can discuss it there
#
tantek
barnabywalters - GBK is that burger place right? that's a good place with big tables
#
tantek
let's pick that as a tentative venue
#
barnabywalters
I think so, Brian suggested it
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tantek
make it so
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /2013/UK (+58) "/* Friday */ venue"
(view diff)
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barnabywalters
finally, a restaurant with a sensible website
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barnabywalters
only thing missing is an obvious menu
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ShaneHudson
Hmm Aral was on about a burger place last time I saw him, but it was closed. He tried to get them to open it, so sounds like a good place
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tantek.com
edited /2013/UK (+263) "added Sunday evening"
(view diff)
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tantek
adactio was also on about a separate burger place last year also
#
tantek
and apparently they ran out of burgers
#
tantek
GBK is solid, can handle a group of 10+ etc.
#
tantek
is going to go out for a snack.
#
tantek
monitor web logs as usual :)
#
barnabywalters
cool, I don’t know what time I’m headed off but will certainly be up for meeting
#
shanehudson.net
edited /2013/UK (+40) "/* Sunday evening */"
(view diff)
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ShaneHudson
Yeah, I won't be able to stay too late. Probably 10ish
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@mindcrash
RT @aral: There is no such thing as a free service. #indiedata
(twitter.com/_/status/374956730591236096)
#
@mindcrash
RT @aral: Facebook and Google will offer you the Freeternet. Ask: why is it free? What’s is their business model? #indiedata
(twitter.com/_/status/374956757107630080)
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@mindcrash
RT @aral: The Freeternet is not the Internet. #indiedata
(twitter.com/_/status/374956772823678976)
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@aral
Yahoo recycles email accounts—some users getting personal emails meant for others: https://medium.com/weird-future/46b47d95b957 Own your domain. #indiedata
(twitter.com/_/status/374961753316392960)
spinnerin, shaners, eschnou and tantek joined the channel
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tantek
yahoo recycling emails. ouch.
#
tantek
got to add that to the /Why and /Yahoo pages
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aaronpk
it's funny cause telecoms have been doing that with phone numbers for years
#
aaronpk
it's just a very different thing when a phone number is redirected. there's the first part of the conversation that people use to negotiate whether they're talking to the right person
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aaronpk
that doesn't exist in email, you just get the whole message. it would be like answering the phone and the other person just starts blabbing.
#
jernst
a lot of large ISPs recycle too if I remember this correctly from discussions in OpenID days
#
jernst
so a sequential identifier (or something like that) was introduced to be able to distinguish between the accounts, and the new account holder did not inherit access rights to the old account holder's accounts on relying parties
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tantek
interesting
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tantek
same problem obv is true with DNS in general. forget to renew your domain, and have it squatted by a spammer or pr0n site
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jernst
Personally I think there should be a public key behind it that can be retrieved, and possession of private key be challenged, and if not matched, site ownership may have changed
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aaronpk
like ssh known hosts?
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@jkarneges
RT @aral: There is no such thing as a free service. #indiedata
(twitter.com/_/status/374980780235042816)
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jernst
Basically, just for http
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aaronpk
seems like something that could easily be done as an HTTP header
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jernst
Or simply pre-define a well-known URL
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jernst
that's easier to add to existing software
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tantek
this feels like the kind of thing some of the more security paranoid types would have explored already
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tantek
e.g. WebID efforts
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tantek
(involving personal certificates etc.)
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aaronpk
of course if you're already publishing your public key in your h-card you could just use that
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jernst
it's got to be tied to the hostname
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jernst
if a given domain is owned/used by a single user, that's simpler
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aaronpk
tantek: yeah I think WebID talks about it now that you mention it. can't quite remember
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jernst
and then there's the related use case of "what if the site was hacked and the private key compromised"
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jernst
a couple of years back I designed a protocol for how to recover, but never published
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jernst
didn't quite know what to do with it
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aaronpk
publish it on your blog?
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aaronpk
just a crazy suggestion
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jernst
:-P
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jernst
lots of stuff gets published, the question is how does it ever get used?
eschnou joined the channel
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tantek
jernst - publishing something on your blog is one of the best ways to help it get discovered (e.g. by search), which increases the chances of it being used.
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tantek
publishing on an email list, even with an archive, is a good way to make sure it's lost forever
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jernst
I know. Write-only mailing lists.
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tantek
pretty sad/funny/ironic that Googlers are so email-list centric in their discussions, standards etc., and yet, Google *sucks* at indexing/surfacing results from mailing list archives
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tantek
once in a while I poke my Google friends about this and they just sigh
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tantek
here's the WebID wiki page. if you ignore the RDF/FOAF parts (substitute HTML/hCard), the protocol parts are interesting.
#
tantek
unfortunately the group is dominated by Uppercase SemWeb types and so the whole WebID effort is boatanchored by the baggage of RDF/FOAF.
eschnou joined the channel
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tantek
if you take the whole "FOAF+SSL" protocol and swap it out with hCard+SSL or maybe IndieAuth+SSL then we might have something.
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hober
is a post on g+ a blog post?
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hober
e.g., i wouldn't describe a fb status update as a blog post
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tantek
well it's a G+ post, not a fb status update
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tantek
AFAIK
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hober
i think of fb and g+ as being basically the same sorts of services, so i wouldn't describe a post on either as a blog post
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bret
Man, I just love when GUIs to command line tools provide no screenshot of the actual GUI on the website
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tantek
yeah, more like notes since there's no structure. no name/title. no headings.
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bret
I'm not going to be around to remote participate in IWCUK :(
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hober
when is it?
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shaners
good morning/day/evening/night, folks!
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shaners
i was off the radar at burning man for the past 10 days or so.
#
shaners
what'd i miss?
indiewebcamp-vis joined the channel
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barnabywalters
evening shaners
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barnabywalters
you missed some mildly interesting back and forth about indieauth between the channel and aral
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barnabywalters
and indiewebcamp over-filling and everyone getting very excited
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barnabywalters
how was burning man?
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shaners
loud. hot. but totally awesome.
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@PoppenReport
RT @aral: Vietnam decrees blogs & social media should only be used to share personal info not news. #indiedata http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23920541 Via…
(twitter.com/_/status/374995431245111296)
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barnabywalters
sounds good!
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shaners
really, "#indiedata"?
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aaronpk
oh yea, and that
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barnabywalters
(and the two articles linked in the header)
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shaners
words have meanings. and he completely misuses so many. sheesh.
#
shaners
you don't get to just say something is a "movement"
bnvk joined the channel
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tantek
shaners - I like having a "movement" at least once a day in the morning.
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tantek
I mean, don't you consider every one of your blog posts a "movement"? ;)
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bret
shaners: Is the IWC farmhouse still going to happen?
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barnabywalters
I just started a delicious, oddly-shaped movement: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4RrLn7/
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barnabywalters
via email nonetheless — prepping for IWCUK demos
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tantek
barnabywalters - what, no #indiepizza hashtag? ;)
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bret
barnabywalters: don't post pictures of tho… oh that looks delicious!
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shaners
tantek: i plan on writing a movement today
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barnabywalters
#indiepizza is the future
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shaners
bret: yep! 2013-11-03 right after FHC5.
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bret
oh sweet!
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tantek
is it on the wiki?
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bret
i didn't see it but maybe i missed it
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bret
on the events page i mean
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shaners
ugh. MediaWiki's case sensitive URLs are annoying
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tantek
shaners which?
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shaners
i'll add it to the events page
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tantek
woot!
#
Loqi
woot
#
Loqi
giggles
#
tantek
I wonder if Loqi's "wootism" is part of the "minion" collection of subroutines.
#
Loqi
giggles
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shaners
I guess Loqi hit its woot limit
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /On_Evolving_IndieAuth_Followup (+132) "/* See Also */ noted Aral’s responses before the tweet permalinks disappear into the void"
(view diff)
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tantek
he had responses?
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tantek
oh that
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barnabywalters
tantek: so to speak
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tantek
yeah - I figure he doesn't put it on his own site so...
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /2013/Hollywood (+622) "/* Remote Participants */ added myself"
(view diff)
#
shaners
barnabywalters: do you have a short url? / are you gonna get one?
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tantek
shaners, I've been tweaking IndieMark a bunch
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barnabywalters
shaners: I’m a bit meh about short URLs. it’s rare that I’ve felt I really need one
#
tantek
appreciate your continued feedback.
#
tantek
is getting close to Level 1 himself.
#
barnabywalters
and two+ more things to maintain, pay for etc.
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shaners
barnabywalters: two?
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tantek
barnabywalters - want to add a "Criticism" section here? http://indiewebcamp.com/short-domains
#
barnabywalters
domain, hosting, code
#
tantek
(perhaps after the "why …" section)
#
tantek
we should capture our own internal differences in opinion on such matters
#
tantek
do we need a meme for the indieweb without web suggestion that Aral made?
#
tantek
"If you're trying to be a part of the indieweb without a web site, you're gonna have a bad time."
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /short-domains (+296) "/* add more short URL domains here */ documented my criticism of short domains, lack of personal interest in one"
(view diff)
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barnabywalters
if you’re trying to be part of the web with no hyperlinks, you’re gonna have a bad time
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tantek.com
edited /short-domains (+0) "move criticisms to just after "why..." section, before domains themselves"
(view diff)
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tantek
if you're trying to be web-like without hypertext, you're gonna have a bad time.
#
shaners
if you're trying to be web-like without hypermedia, you're gonna have a bad time.
#
tantek
if you're trying to make a *web* standard using an *email* list, you're gonna have a bad time.
#
tantek
and welcome back shaners :)
#
shaners
thanks!
#
shaners
it's good to be back
eschnou joined the channel
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bret
I guess it took me a while to fully realize what exactly indieauth was trying to solve
#
iamshane.com
edited /Events (+366) "/* moved Indieweb meeting Paris to 2013 past */"
(view diff)
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tantek
bret indieauth or indiedata?
#
bret
indieauth
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bret
i still don't know what indiedata is
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iamshane.com
edited /Events (-361) "/* removed Indieweb meeting Paris from upcoming */"
(view diff)
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tantek
you mean authentication?
#
tantek
bret indiedata is a blog post and hashtag used by Aral
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bret
tantek: yes, I came from the belief that persona was the future, but I see the difference now
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tantek
Persona is backward compat with the past.
#
tantek
which isn't a bad thing
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bret
Persona: web authentication using email
#
bret
IndieAuth: Web authentication using the web
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tantek
right
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bret
Boucing around the different authentication providers at first, one of my first reactions was (naively) why not just use persona
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barnabywalters
aaaand my server’s being migrated. no waterpigs.co.uk for a few hours
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bret
what if its a disaster and you don't have it for IWCUK?
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barnabywalters
bret: it should be trivial to set up on another server
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tantek
barnabywalters - what happens to webmentions that sites try to send you now?
#
bret
;) Im just kiddin
#
tantek
just saying
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barnabywalters
seeing as I can copy+paste the files, run a couple of commands and (in theory) be up and running again
#
bret
place holder to webmention.io?
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tantek
do webmentions need some form of store&forward?
#
tantek
proxy?
#
tantek
I think this is why PuSH works the way it does
#
tantek
so the content publisher just pings the PuSH hub when it has new posts
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bret
Sounds like a sweet feature for webmention.io but then are we just re-inventing email?
#
tantek
and then the PuSH hub can ping the subscribers with timeouts and retries
#
tantek
bret - not reinventing email no. but might be reinventing part of PuSH.
#
tantek
mind you, it might be a useful way to extract something from PuSH for broader use with webmentions etc.
#
bret
hrrm
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tantek
bret, the concept of store-and-forward predates email
#
bret
USPS
#
bret
and beyond
#
tantek
networking protocols, back when networks were not real time!
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tantek
wants DTN for webmentions, and web browsing in general (including form submissions)
#
tantek
wonders if anyone has thought about adding DTN to HTTP.
#
tantek
discovers googling for anything "HTTP" is useless.
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bret.io
edited /On_Evolving_IndieAuth_Followup (+3241) "Added my responses to the article's and to the existing comments."
(view diff)
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bret.io
edited /On_Evolving_IndieAuth_Followup (+3) "fixed a type in my response"
(view diff)
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bret.io
edited /Why_web_sign-in (+77) "/* But what if multiple people are behind the same domain */"
(view diff)
#
bret.io
edited /Why_web_sign-in (+190) "/* Why Not Phone Numbers */ Added in privacy concerns"
(view diff)
wardn, andreypopp and abrereton joined the channel
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bret
barnabywalters: your site is down to check…. are you doing indieRSVPs and events?
#
bret
parsing for responses
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barnabywalters
bret: I’ve manually posted indieRSVPs, not currently explicitly supporting hosting events or incoming RSVPs
#
bret
TIL a new word: blowhard XD
#
@Patrick_Sansom
@gavinwye @IndieWebCampUK see you Sat evening :) You'll probably need the day to sleep off the effects of the @dconstruct after party… ;)
(twitter.com/_/status/375020706645291008)
ruiramos joined the channel
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shaners
US west coast pals: is west coast timezone -0700 or -0800 in November?
#
bret
buhhh
barnabywalters joined the channel
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bret
I don't actually know. Anyway shaners, re our conversation a movement ago, count me as a maybe. I want to make it to LA, but I am not sure if I will be able to do so yet.
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shaners
bret: ok. but if it ain't on the wiki, it's not real. ;)
tpinto and cyberjar09 joined the channel
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iamshane.com
edited /Events (+723) "/* added "IWC : Hollywood 2013" to Upcoming */"
(view diff)
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iamshane.com
edited /Events (+0) "/* capitalized "recent", because Titlecase in Headings */"
(view diff)
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iamshane.com
edited /Events (-136) "/* cleaned up IWCH2013 listing */"
(view diff)
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iamshane.com
edited /Events (+12) "/* a little more clean up to Upcoming */"
(view diff)
bnvk joined the channel
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bret.io
edited /2013/Hollywood (+372) "/* Sunday AND Monday RSVP */ Added myself for now."
(view diff)
#
tommorris
deploys a new design for tommorris.org
fmarier and scor joined the channel