#indiewebcamp 2013-09-04

2013-09-04 UTC
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bret tommorris: Looks great!
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tommorris thanks bret
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tommorris tantek: ping. redesign of tommorris.org ;)
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tommorris nothing important indieweb-wise. just pretty.
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tantek looks
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tantek ooh purple!
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tantek nice layout
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tantek really digging the bold header and footer colors
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tantek was just tweaking his CSS earlier today
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tantek tightened up the layout of footer info / datetime posted etc.
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tantek "View on Twitter" link
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tantek (on notes permalinks)
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tantek e.g. http://tantek.com/2013/227/t1/xkcd-use-iso-8601-dates
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tantek web actions coming soon
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tantek well done tommorris. off for now.
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shaners tommorris: looks nice. want some nit picky feedback? just little things.
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tommorris shaners: sure
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tommorris (I am not a designer. I noodle with data for a living.)
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shaners no disrespect at all. it looks real good. sincerely.
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shaners just a few little things.
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shaners some more vertical space between header/content and content/footer. breathing room.
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tommorris yep. was going to add a bit
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shaners some padding inside your nav links.
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hadleybeeman tommorris, the time-zone thing confused me. Till I saw your last geocode was NYC. :)
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shaners i'd flip the black and white of your pagination links
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shaners so that the current page number is white on black. and the rest are black on white.
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tommorris hadleybeeman: I'm doing everything in GMT. even when I'm not in GMT. ;)
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tommorris shaners: will do
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shaners tommorris: nav and search on the same baseline
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tommorris shaners: there's going to be a few more links in nav soon so I've deliberately not done that
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shaners ah
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hadleybeeman Tommorris: the standards geek in me is proud of you. :)
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tommorris I should probably enrich it with some more RDFa and microformats. but CSS is easier when you've had a drink or two.
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shaners truncated blockquotes' border-left are doing weird things
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Loqi yea!
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tommorris shaners: yep. fix just about to go into production
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shaners :D
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shaners and the rainbow stars are cute. ;)
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shaners tommorris: are you seeing really slow response times?
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tommorris shaners: a bit, but that's because I'm on shit hotel wifi
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shaners i'm on 50mb down speedy internet at home and it's taking several seconds to load your site
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tommorris will have a look.
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shaners but all told, the site looks good. gold star
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tommorris might just be that because I've been editing CSS, may be cached
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tommorris or not cached
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tantek.com edited /2013/UK (+200) "/* IndieWebCampUK */ add brighton digital festival URL" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2013/UK (+4) "/* Creators */ more than may - good chance" (view diff)
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tantek we're in the Brighton Digital Festival: http://www.brightondigitalfestival.co.uk/events/indiewebcamp-uk-2013
JasonO, spinnerin, tantek, bnvk, gjones, shaners, hadleybeeman, LauraJ, eschnou, fresco, lukecyca_ and cweiske joined the channel
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neuro` Good morning.
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@JayGreasley watching @adactio http://www.besquare.me/session/beyond-tellerrand/ ahead of IndieWebCamp. Feels like coming home. (twitter.com/_/status/375172774467088384)
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tiagopinto.pt edited /2013/UK (+379) "/* Waiting List */" (view diff)
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knitatoms.net edited /2013/UK (+2) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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knitatoms.net edited /2013/UK (+245) "/* Waiting List */" (view diff)
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@dellasm RT @mikeseid1: Athlete Arrest of the Day #MLB #ReeferMadness http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/indians-closer-chris-perez-pleads-no-contest-marijuana-165820590--mlb.html http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1438911009/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?qid=1378291469&sr=8-2&pi=SL75 #DontMailPotToYourDog #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/375214344868728832)
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@pmackay The @webwewant campaign looks to overlap with the IndieWeb campaign http://indiewebcamp.com/principles cc @aral (twitter.com/_/status/375224630824292352)
jschweinsberg, andreypopp, h1ro, abrereton, scor, LauraJ, rvaldes__ and friedcell joined the channel
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@aral Viewing a CC0”licensed video on YouTube and I cannot download it. Gotta love closed silos. #indiedata (twitter.com/_/status/375254592415870976)
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@elland RT @aral: Viewing a CC0”licensed video on YouTube and I cannot download it. Gotta love closed silos. #indiedata (twitter.com/_/status/375255438960623616)
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@maryagne1 RT @t: @aral glad you're #ownyourdata blogging :) Counter-examples for you: Consumer OSS: #Firefox #Chrome ... http://tantek.com/2013/243/t2/ownyourdata-examples-oss-firefox-chrome (twitter.com/_/status/375257338191425537)
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@BarnabyWalters http://myOpenID.com is dead. OpenID is dead. Long live Web Sign-In. #indieweb #indieauth (http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4RsEr7/) (twitter.com/_/status/375269804221145088)
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Loqi [mention] http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4RsEr7/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Web_sign-in (pingback)
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barnabywalters I added some more details to that note after I couldn’t find a “goodbye” blog post
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cweiske myopenid shuts down jan 1 2014
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barnabywalters cweiske: I see 2014-02-01
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barnabywalters but it already seems to be down, as well as janrain.com
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cweiske right, february
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donpdonp cweiske: zomgbbq
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donpdonp cweiske: got a link for that news?
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cweiske mail from janrain
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donpdonp ah
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barnabywalters donpdonp: I couldn’t find one as both their sites are down
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barnabywalters see http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4RsEr7/ for full email quote
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donpdonp barnabywalters: heh. janrain.com is loading slowy for me
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cweiske donpdonp, http://p.cweiske.de/54
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barnabywalters I wonder if they’ll post about it on janrain.com
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donpdonp thanks barnabywalters, cweiske
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barnabywalters or just send emails
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neuro` How how how
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donpdonp luckily, openid delegates
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donpdonp any ideas on a new provider to use in place of myopenid?
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /site-deaths (+217) "/* Upcoming */ added myOpenID" (view diff)
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barnabywalters wonders if it’s possible to use indieauth as a provider
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barnabywalters but I don’t know much about OpenID
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donpdonp that would be an interesting way to try and get convertions from openid to indieauth if indieauth.com were also an openid provider
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barnabywalters aaronpk: thoughts on indieauth as an openID *provider* instead of consumer?
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barnabywalters to be delegated to a la the late myOpenID
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aaronpk myopenid is shutting down?!
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barnabywalters indeed
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barnabywalters 2014-02-01
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Loqi !calc 2014-02-01
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barnabywalters but site down at the moment
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aaronpk barnabywalters: yeah that idea has come up several times
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aaronpk I've never gotten around to it because there hasn't been much need yet
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barnabywalters I’m actually surprised this is such big news, but I haven’t been playing in the online identity space for long
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aaronpk but this is a good excuse
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aaronpk but man openid is a pain
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donpdonp myopenid.com is responding again
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barnabywalters there must have been a rush of people looking at it all of a sudden :)
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aaronpk would be a good chance to streamline the setup guide by writing a "how to use indieauth as a replacement for myopenid"
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aaronpk barnabywalters: oh yea there's a note on the indieauth wiki page about that
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aaronpk barnabywalters: https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/issues/30
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aaronpk just made that
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barnabywalters aaronpk: nice, I hadn’t seen the stackoverflow post
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barnabywalters sigh. and this is why domain names are a pretty great way of owning your identity
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@jalbertbowdenii RIP myOpenID Long Live IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/375277003152171009)
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@xtof_fr RT @BarnabyWalters: http://myOpenID.com is dead. OpenID is dead. Long live Web Sign-In. #indieweb #indieauth (http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4RsEr7/) (twitter.com/_/status/375277216688394240)
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bret Poor my open id
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bret I got that email this morning too
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aaronpk I thought I had an account there, but maybe not
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bret Did you not get the email? Maybe it was sent to An old account?
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bret When I added it to my site recently it was still linked to my hotmail, so it must have been like 2005ish that I started my account on myopenid
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk well i've been using *@aaronparecki.com email addresses since 1999
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ShaneHudson I've never heard of it to be honest! I use openID though
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bret Talk about a confusing interface. It had all sorts of profile info, just for an openid auth provider
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ShaneHudson heh sounds like gravatar. Used to be so simple
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barnabywalters bret: probably for open auth exchange or whatever it was called
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barnabywalters attribute exchange
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ShaneHudson Hmm might have found a way to get there on time this weekend :)
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tantek catches up on logs
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tantek re: https://twitter.com/pmackay/status/375224630824292352 - do people even bother to fact-check anything at all? @webwewant has http://webwewant.org/ in its profile which...
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@pmackay The @webwewant campaign looks to overlap with the IndieWeb campaign http://indiewebcamp.com/principles cc @aral
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tantek "Error establishing a database connection"
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tantek No, the webwewant is not a database, nor an error establishing a database connection. http://indiewebcamp.com/antipatterns#databases_for_storage
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aaronpk lol
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tantek feel free to reply - I'm finishing packing for my trip
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tantek just had to point that out here in the channel
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tantek and apparently time to remove myopenid from my site
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aaronpk I think it's time to make IndieAuth an openid provider
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tantek barnabywalters - OpenID AX (attribute exchange) was yet-another-reinvention-of-contact-info that diverged from vCard
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tantek points out http://indiewebcamp.com/openid in case anyone wants to add some of today's news and details and problems there
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aaronpk is scheming with peat and donpdonp on an OpenID hack day next week
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ShaneHudson Anyone know a good place in Brighton to stay? Everywhere looks stupidly expensive
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tantek myopenid shutting down shows the importance of low maintenance technology design.
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tantek if it were trivial/cheap to maintain, they'd leave myopenid running just for the good will. but clearly it's not.
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aaronpk another downside to databases
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tantek or if it were trivial/cheap to maintain, they could find a *buyer* who would maintain it
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tantek this is why when people propose duplicate content, RDF, complicated protocols, etc. you should just summarily reject it outright
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ShaneHudson So true. We need to be making things that we can just leave to their own devises
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tantek because in the long run, if it's complicated, it's unsustainable, and thus a waste of time.
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barnabywalters ShaneHudson: I found a hostel which wasn’t offensively expensive
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ShaneHudson barnabywalters: yeah? Should you shoot me a link please?
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ShaneHudson *could
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barnabywalters I think the one I’m at is booked up for this weekend, but you could check out http://www.hostelbookers.com/hostels/england/brighton/
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aaronpk now it's a thing http://calagator.org/events/1250464804
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Loqi IndieAuth OpenID Hackathon on Sunday, Sep 15, 10:00am at Sisters Coffee
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tantek re: unnecessary complexity - wrote this up a while ago, but perhaps it should be extracted and generalized beyond its current location: http://microformats.org/wiki/triples#Problem_of_unnecessary_complexity
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@donpdonp Is the IndieWeb community responding to the loss of http://myopenid.com http://img.pandawhale.com/76776-Loki-OH-YES-gif-Imgur-zLqj.gif http://calagator.org/events/1250464804 (twitter.com/_/status/375296513871597568)
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barnabywalters I made the mistake of looking at a RDFa lite ”tutorial” a week or so ago
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tantek and what did you learn?
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barnabywalters I learnt that the ID attribute isn’t good enough for RDF
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barnabywalters it requires a “resource∏
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barnabywalters ”
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barnabywalters attribute
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barnabywalters which does almost exactly the same thing but differently and worse
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scor does uf use @id?
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barnabywalters scor: µf uses URLs
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barnabywalters so yes, it makes use of @id sometimes
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aaronpk and class names
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scor barnabywalters: URLs from where? how are these defined?
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scor @href?
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barnabywalters scor: IIRC the @resource attribute allows you to name an element as a resource
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barnabywalters which can then be referenced within RDFa lite land by #name
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barnabywalters which is exactly what @id does in HTML+URL land
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scor yes, for elements of the same page. what if you want to talk about resources which are not local to the page?
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barnabywalters thus creating a confusing, parallel namespace
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barnabywalters scor: local = "#item", remote = "example.com#item"
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barnabywalters just like normal URLs!
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scor how would the HTML look like for remote?
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barnabywalters scor: what specifically are you asking?
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scor id="example.com#item"
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scor ?
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barnabywalters scor: what is your use case? that makes no sense
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Loqi your use case is similar to what most federated social networks have where someone hosts your presence for you
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barnabywalters lol Loqi
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barnabywalters that’s not the use case
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barnabywalters …I think
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barnabywalters http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-lite/#resource
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barnabywalters “Just like we create identifiers for parts of a page using the id attribute in HTML, you can create identifiers for things described on a page using the resource attribute”
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barnabywalters which then works just like the id attribute would have, but only in RDFa land
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barnabywalters not, y’know, in actual browsers which people use
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tantek right. invent something that doesn't work in browsers, nor has any chance of, and is actually confusing/clashing with something that *does* work in browsers. = fail.
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barnabywalters worse, id="thing" and resource="#thing" = slightly different syntaxes for the same thing = harder to learn and remember
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neuro` Good evening.
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scor I agree the parallel (or lack of thereof) between id="thing" and resource="#thing" is confusing
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tommorris @resource can be used for any URI though, not just IDs
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tommorris whether you trust the page author when he says @resource is something off-page is up to you.
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tommorris being able to specify things about other pages is something that HTML predicted with @rev.
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scor yeah, that's the use case I was getting at with barnaby
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scor @id is only for local resources
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scor RDFa does not limit you to local resources.
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tommorris <a href="http://tantek.com/" resource="http://tantek.com/" property="schema:name">Tantek Çelik</a>
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tommorris would express the statement: <http://tantek.com> schema:name "Tantek Celik" .
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tantek tommorris - with the antipatterns of: 1) DRY violation
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tantek 2) namespaces
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scor <a href="http://tantek.com/"><span property="http://schema.org/name">Tantek Çelik</span></a>
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tommorris weighs up DRY vs. Python's explicit over implicit
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tommorris and scor: that doesn't say the same thing. the subject of that triple would be the page hosting the link, not the target of the link.
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scor RDFa 1.0 was trying to be smart and do implicit things too, but that's not been well received, so we've toned them down in 1.1
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scor tommorris: the @href becomes the subject of your statement
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scor http://rdfa.info/play/
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tommorris oh, okay.
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scor fixes the DRY issue
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tommorris yeah, you either get DRY-fail or you get the problem of inferring things that the author didn't intend.
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tommorris like, if, oh, they were a reasonably well-informed semantic web person who hadn't consulted an RDFa syntax guide recently and drew an incorrect conclusion...
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scor yes!
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aaronpk just got my email from myopenid.com
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aaronpk Feb 1 2014 is the shutdown date according to my email
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tommorris myopenid hasn't worked for me for a while.
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aaronpk i haven't used it in years. I replaced it with phpmyopenid a long time ago
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tommorris yeah, I'm going to have to set up my own at some point.
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tantek I'm going to just wait for IndieAuth to support being an OpenID provider
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tantek ;)
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aaronpk tantek: http://calagator.org/events/1250464804 :)
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Loqi IndieAuth OpenID Hackathon on Sunday, Sep 15, 10:00am at Sisters Coffee
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neuro` aaronpk: did you finally onboard?
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@fmarier http://myopenid.com shutting down highlights the importance of owning your own domain name when delegating to other services #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/375320256031367168)
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tommorris deploys a few more CSS changes to tommorris.org
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tommorris Testing on iOS is hampered by the fact that I don't have a newer iPhone/iPod touch
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tommorris Thinking about putting out an appcache file for offline reading of my site.
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tommorris which means setting a Last-Modified header. ;)
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@Johannes_Ernst Got quoted on the Bitcoin channel "Personal Clouds: Disrupting the disruptors" http://www.thebitcoinchannel.com/archives/22383 #pcloud #indieweb #fb thx @lightcoin (twitter.com/_/status/375354977897553921)
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@TeresaDAmario RT @gaelehi: Disappearing in Plain Sight by Francis L. Guenette http://gaele.sweaterveststudio.com/?p=5243 @FrancisGuenette #goodread #contemporary #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/375359384567545856)
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tantek going offline for a while - see some of you in Brighton!
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tommorris looks like Topsy now let you search all tweets ever.
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@chrismessina I like how PDX is basically having a wake for MyOpenID On 9/15. Time to mourn. http://calagator.org/events/1250464804 /via @turoczy #openid #indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/375367289387753472)
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tommorris check it out - the earliest tweets about barcamp - http://topsy.com/s?q=barcamp&window=a&sort=-date
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tommorris and early indiewebcamp tweets - http://topsy.com/s?q=indiewebcamp&window=a&sort=-date
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shvelo 69 users :D