#indiewebcamp 2013-10-18

2013-10-18 UTC
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tantek my posting UI right now provides the permalink of the POSSEd tweet
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tantek so I'm thinking of providing some sort of feedback for webmentions sent too, even just a simple list
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aaronpk my posting UI redirects to the post URL after it's created.
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aaronpk that was my hack^H^H^H^Hsolution after an embarrasing live demo of showing a giant PHP array on screen after posting
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tantek I do like the idea of demo-driven design
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tantek it's like public realtime selfdogfooding :)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+1044) "/* Working On */ webmention sending brainstorming, update why details, add to demo real-time comments showing up, why show webmention feedback in posting UI" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /webmention (+68) "/* IndieWeb implementations */ p3k async sends, no results reported" (view diff)
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tantek !tell barnabywalters do you discover&send webmentions synchronously or asynchronously in your posting UI? either way, do you report webmention results back to your posting UI?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek !tell benwerd do you discover&send webmentions synchronously or asynchronously in your posting UI? either way, do you report webmention results back to your posting UI?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk I just showed some of our guys the sample code on webmention.io and blew their minds :) they were like "it's this easy to add comments to the site??"
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tantek aaronpk - note typo at bottom of webmention.io - >/script>
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aaronpk heh thanks
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/10/17/1/test linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/comment (webmention)
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tantek aaronpk - oh that's interesting - are you thinking about adding h-entry markup to the indiewebcamp mediawiki template?
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tantek so that more shows up in reply contexts?
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aaronpk that would be fun
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aaronpk but no, that was sample data for testing comments on the new esripdx blog
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tantek ah ok - was just thinking about it - e.g. what if the indiewebcamp wiki itself sent webmentions
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aaronpk could be interesting
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tantek so that, e.g. when a wiki page cited one of your posts or articles, you would find out about it
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aaronpk I think we haven't explored much on the use case/UI side for non-time-based URLs
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tantek on the receiving side, do you want to know when a wiki page links to your site?
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aaronpk in general I like to know about inbound links
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aaronpk but I'm not sure if or how I would want to display a link from the wiki
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tantek well you're replying to a wik page and sending it a webmention, shouldn't you thus be ok receiving one from it too?
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tantek s/wik/wiki
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Loqi tantek meant to say: well you're replying to a wiki page and sending it a webmention, shouldn't you thus be ok receiving one from it too?
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acegiak perhaps the webmention comes from the page displaying the change that added the link?
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tantek that would be another way to do it - to have revision / deltas send webmentions, similar to how they are posted here in IRC
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tantek those would even have a specific author could be marked up with p-author h-card
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bret aaronpk, that was a lot of fun at pints! :) thanks for doing that
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petar.petrovic.io created /User:Petar.petrovic.io (+172) "Created page with "I am a student from Paraćin, Serbia, currently majoring in software engineering. Recently I got interested in independent web and I occasionally blog at petar.petrovic.io."" (view diff)
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petar.petrovic.io edited /IRC_People (+63) "Added myself to the list (wyomingplease)" (view diff)
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tantek tommorris - are you automatically sending webmentions?
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tantek.com edited /webmention (+356) "/* rel webmention */ supersedes .org URL rel value" (view diff)
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tantek !tell tommorris do you discover&send webmentions synchronously or asynchronously in your posting UI? either way, do you report webmention results back to your posting UI?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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acegiak possible indieauth issue:
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acegiak "You just authenticated as 'https://plus.google.com/104282830210276196757' but your website linked to 'https://plus.google.com/104282830210276196757?rel=author'"
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acegiak.machinespirit.net edited /IRC_People (+68) "Adding Myself" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /geo-wiki (+91) "add similar work with geopad" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /cloud (+108) "clouds in error message" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /cloud (+1) "/* in error messages */ sp" (view diff)
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tommorris tantek: Should be
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Loqi tommorris: tantek left you a message 58 minutes ago: do you discover&send webmentions synchronously or asynchronously in your posting UI? either way, do you report webmention results back to your posting UI?
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tommorris And it should be async
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tantek.com created /feedly (+280) "draft with a stub with down messsage" (view diff)
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tantek tommorris - so does it just happen automatically in the background after you post/publish?
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tantek does your server has some long running process that looks for new posts?
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tantek and do you remember when you added support for (semi-)automatically sending webmentions?
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tantek.com edited /webmention (+220) "/* IndieWeb implementations */ add tommorris.org / Ferocity as example of indieweb implementation that sends webmentions - unknown dates leave as 2013-??-??" (view diff)
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tantek Did sandeep break his site? I'm seeing no content text on his home page or permalinks: http://www.sandeep.io/ http://www.sandeep.io/55
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acegiak looks broken to me
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@_jden @shanley http://indiewebcamp.com/why (twitter.com/_/status/391086480468111360)
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Jihaisse Hello
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Loqi eschnou: tantek left you a message 10 hours, 37 minutes ago: did you POSSE https://eschnou.com/entry/testing-indieweb-federation-with-waterpigscouk-aaronpareckicom-and--62-24908.html to Twitter? if so what was the tweet permalink? and are you displaying/linking-to rel=syndication POSSE copies now on your posts?
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eschnou !tell tantek hmm, I don't recall syndicating it on twitter, and google leads me nowhere, so I probably didn't since I considered it a test that could fail :-) Also, I don't keep track of where content is syndicated.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2013/08/23/web-design-conferences-and-events/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (pingback)
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tommorris useful to know, Loqi. :)
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Loqi who, me?
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Loqi barnabywalters: tantek left you a message 10 hours, 16 minutes ago: do you discover&send webmentions synchronously or asynchronously in your posting UI? either way, do you report webmention results back to your posting UI?
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tommorris hey barnabywalters
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barnabywalters morning tommorris
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tommorris Guess what I'm having to do today?
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barnabywalters FB development?
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tommorris It's a four letter acronym.
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tommorris Oh no. Far worse than that.
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tommorris SOAP.
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barnabywalters NOOOOO
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tommorris Yeah. It's truly atrocious. I want to find all the people responsible for WS-* and beat them with a sackful of doorknobs.
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cweiske so what's the alternative web service technology that gives you machine-readable introspection and validation?
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Jihaisse nothing
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Jihaisse and doing nothing is good
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Jihaisse barnabywalters: Hi, do you saw that facebook change the url directly in the link markup ?
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Jihaisse <a class="pam shareText" onclick="" onmouseover="" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2F17OTpsM&h=EAQFSOPMi&enc=AZMMdnV2LrZOcLxD4NpawRIuMFeejUuxIPZCIF6s-GG9vSS-IqSU7Pbg1FADX6cNJ69WyKqpmaeqefq3GlRvdZw_QFPkPuGPZxlB0BLG_MaEDKnbX3US74QM3o5X3Nz_5EdDMnsV3fRIDv-lMNVSRKcs&s=1">
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Loqi tantek: eschnou left you a message 5 hours, 31 minutes ago: hmm, I don't recall syndicating it on twitter, and google leads me nowhere, so I probably didn't since I considered it a test that could fail :-) Also, I don't keep track of where content is syndicated.
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tantek eschnou - ok, cool.
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@bethelightwrite #FREE on #Kindle today! Riverbend: The Collection #ebook #series #romanticsuspense #NA http://www.amazon.com/Riverbend-The-Collection-Andrea-Goodson-ebook/dp/B00FE5BTLK #BYNR #indieauth #RT (twitter.com/_/status/391198570524585984)
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tantek eschnou - it also looks like https://eschnou.com/entry/testing-indieweb-federation-with-waterpigscouk-aaronpareckicom-and--62-24908.html only accepts pingbacks, not webmentions, right?
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eschnou tantek, yup, never took the time to implement webmentions :-(
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tantek right, so if my site only sends webmentions, my comments won't show up there.
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tantek next question for all you webmention senders (aaronpk, barnabywalters, benwerd, tommorris), do you also always send pingbacks? or does your code first do webmention discovery and only if no endpoint found, then look for pingback endpoints and send them?
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cweiske my lib first tries webmention, and then falls back to pingback
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barnabywalters tantek: taproot looks for webmention, falls back to pingback
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tantek cweiske - cool. Is that deployed live on your site?
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tantek barnabywalters - good to know
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cweiske no, i'm still working on the unit tests
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tantek barnabywalters - presumably that's per link in your posts?
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barnabywalters tantek: per link in the content of posts plus in-reply-to URL
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tantek i.e. iterate through links, for each link, do webmention discovery (and send), if no endpoint found, do pingback discovery (and send)
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barnabywalters yep
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barnabywalters slooow
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cweiske my lib does both at once, so that I don't have to do all http requests twice
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tantek cweiske - how do you do both at once?
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barnabywalters yeah, I only make the request once for each URL
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tantek only one request for discovery then?
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cweiske e.g. xpath that returns both webmention and pingback urls
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cweiske tantek, yes
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tantek cweiske - do you then just use the first you find? or if your xpath finds multiple endpoints do you send both?
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barnabywalters and we can’t even cache the endpoint URLs per-domain because they could in theory be different for each post
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tantek right
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cweiske no. after I get the list with links, I first use the webmention one if there is one
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tantek ok, that's basically what I was describing. I was assuming only one HTTP get for the discovery steps
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barnabywalters 1. HTTP GET of URL
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cweiske https://github.com/pear2/Services_Pingback/blob/master/src/PEAR2/Services/Pingback/Client.php#L236
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barnabywalters 1. if header or body contains webmention link, send and return
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barnabywalters 3. if header or body contain pingback link, send and return
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cweiske btw, I do a HEAD request first
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tantek barnabywalters - does Taproot's posting UI send webmentions/pingbacks synch or async? and does it report results back to you?
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barnabywalters cweiske: if the HEAD request doesn’t return anything do you make another GET as well?
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cweiske yes
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cweiske because they might be sending no header links, only in the html
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barnabywalters cweiske: I wonder whether overall it’s quicker to just do a GET request instead of potentially making two requests
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cweiske depends on the size of the page :)
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tantek indeed
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cweiske and for non-html urls, it's the sane solution
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cweiske you wouldn't even have to do the GET request when you don't receive a HTML content type
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tantek barnabywalters does your posting UI send webmentions synchronously or asynchronously?
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barnabywalters tantek: sort of hybrid. technically they’re sent synchronously, but I send them after the response content’s been sent to the browser
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barnabywalters so posting feels really quick without the need for a task queue
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tantek cweiske, by "HTML urls", do you mean type text/html, or do you have a longer list e.g. including application/xhtml+xml etc.?
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tantek barnabywalters - makes sense. but then you don't display any results of the webmentions in your posting UI?
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barnabywalters nope
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cweiske I accept 'application/xhtml+xml', 'text/html',
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cweiske and use load() resp. loadhtml() depending on their content type
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barnabywalters doing it all synchronously would allow that but be really slow, doing it async involves setting up a load of realtime infrastructure
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tantek right
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tantek but could be useful for demos
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barnabywalters or I could save the results of each webmention request on the note and then just wait a few seconds before sending an AJAX request and reloading note content
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tantek yes that could be interesting too
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cweiske my tool does wait fetches my atom feed, checks if there are updates and sends linkbacks out for new links
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tantek barnabywalters - when did you first start sending webmentions?
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cweiske s/wait fetches/fetch/
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Loqi cweiske meant to say: my tool does fetch my atom feed, checks if there are updates and sends linkbacks out for new links
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barnabywalters 11th June 2013 according to git log
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barnabywalters (site is down so can’t search :(
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tantek when did you start accepting webmentions? same day?
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barnabywalters 20th June 2013, apparently
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barnabywalters implemented comment updating on the 23rd
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tantek right before indiewebcamp2013 :)
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tantek does updating include delete? full comment CRUD?
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barnabywalters no, no deletion
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barnabywalters although updating to an empty comment does exactly the same thing
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barnabywalters or, almost exactly the same
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tantek how about you tommorris - when did you start sending webmentions (and do you accept them too?)
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tantek barnabywalters - what does your code do if it gets a 410 from the target?
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barnabywalters nothing special
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tantek (with an empty body - does it then update to an empty body?)
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tantek er, empty comment
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barnabywalters if it gets a 401 and the e-content is “this post has been deleted”, then it’ll update to an empty comment
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tantek 401?
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barnabywalters 410
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tantek you look for that string literal?
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tantek.com edited /webmention (+1045) "/* IndieWeb implementations */ note Taproot sync detail, cweiske's approach" (view diff)
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barnabywalters no
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barnabywalters is anyone who’s sending indieweb comments deleting and sending 410s?
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tantek benwerd is
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tantek returning 410s, but yes
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tantek and his code responds to 410s by deleting received comments also
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tantek I think I like cweiske's HEAD request first approach because it seems like the simplest way to both minimize bytes requested by the server and avoid GETting non-HTML links (which I do link to plenty often)
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aaronpk tantek: I also look for webmention first, and fall back to pingback if not found
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tantek aaronpk - somewhere on the wiki I wrote up a feature request for pingback.me or webmention.io to synthesize pingbacks but I can't find it
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+863) "/* Working On */ more webmention implementation details. HEAD request before GET, fallback to pingback discovery/sending, and reasons why for each" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+53) "/* Working On */ id for show-webmentions" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, barnabywalters - I've captured my brainstorming on showing webmention results and reasons why I want to do this here: http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#show-webmentions
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barnabywalters tantek: howyouknowme protocol?
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barnabywalters thinking a little about the stream pagination problems we were talking about with Alf at IWCUK
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barnabywalters the problem is that pagination is done on the page level
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tantek barnabywalters - indeed, a potential 3rd parameter for webmention that we may end up needing as part of an evolving dynamic whitelist / second-degree approach to fighting spam.
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barnabywalters they go away if we don’t trust rel=next/previous on stream pages, and only trust prev/next rels on individual post pages
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tantek they also go away if pagination always reflects a specific date-time period
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tantek from/to. or sequential post numbers.
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barnabywalters tantek: but that can’t be done easily with static sites
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cweiske or if page numbers are used the other way round than currently
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tantek no it should be easier for static sites
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cweiske currently, the lastest posts are on page 0/1
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cweiske this is wrong
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tantek since the pagination shouldn't change over time
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cweiske tantek, exactly
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tantek cweiske - yes
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cweiske isn't it nice to agree to each other ?:)
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tantek my approach on this is to use time periods for pagination, e.g. day-by-day, week-by-week etc.
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barnabywalters tantek: you have page-level pagination? where?
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tantek cweiske - I meant yes to "currently, the lastest posts are on page 0/1. this is wrong" :)
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tantek I'm looking at it from the permalink perspective
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tantek barnabywalters - well, I have per-post page-level pagination :)
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tantek and if you hack my permalinks you can see all posts for that day ;)
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tantek (but there's no explicit nav for that yet)
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tantek e.g. http://tantek.com/2013/286/
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barnabywalters where is there an example of a static site with working, time-based feed page pagination?
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tantek what does "feed" have anything to do with it?
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barnabywalters I can’t think how that can work without producing thousands of files, or breaking permalinks
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tantek the time-base is on when the content was produced, not when the pagination was requested
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tantek hence, universal
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tantek barnabywalters see above URL for an example of day-by-day pagination
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barnabywalters I am communicating ineffectively again and will stop
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tantek lol
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barnabywalters at some point I’ll write up a post about what the problem is and how I think post-level pagination crawling fixes it
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tantek wait, you're not actually asking for *page numbers* are you? Those are just silly. This is the web, we don't have page numbers :P
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barnabywalters tantek: no, indeed I am now
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barnabywalters not
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barnabywalters quite the opposite
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tantek we don't actually need pagination - just crawlable archives by date-time period
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tantek barnabywalters - when you write your post about it, please start from the end user use case. e.g. user comes to your site, and then wants to ...
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barnabywalters of course
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tantek absence of that was the biggest problem with most of what Alf was saying / asking for
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tantek he kept asking for abstract APIs and stuff to build products/apps that are now obsolete (standalone readers)
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tantek use-cases good, API requests bad
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tantek is off for a run
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aaronpk just discovered major limitation of hosting on github pages... can't create a 301 redirect when pages are moved!
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barnabywalters aaronpk: you can do a manual HTML redirect though, right?
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aaronpk yeah but that sucks
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aaronpk i have to make a file at the old URL that has a meta refresh tag and link rel canoncal and such
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tantek aaronpk: http://indiewebcamp.com/github#No_HTTP_Status_Code_Control
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Loqi shaners: aaronpk left you a message on 10/17 at 11:13am: just got my flight for Farmhouse conf weekend!
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shaners aaronpk: weeeee!
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shaners did y'all hear about dopplr dying? http://www.dopplr.com
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shaners on 2013-11-01
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Loqi !calc on 2013-11-01
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barnabywalters wow — they win the award for ugliest shutdown page
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shaners well. they ARE nokia.
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hadleybeeman shaners: do we know why? Their wikipedia page doesn't even mention it. (ping: tommorris. Sorry :) )
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@devseo How #xoxofest and #indiewebcamp saved me, in a way. - http://werd.io/entry/5243114abed7de2970c0b2b7/how-xoxofest-and-indiewebcamp-saved-me-in-a-way (twitter.com/_/status/391241139636158465)
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barnabywalters tantek: RE webmention GET/HEAD discovery, ideally you’d be able to send the request, then check the headers before reading the body — if the headers contain a Link or content type isn’t HTML, close the connection, otherwise parse body
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barnabywalters not sure how tricky it’d be to do in PHP though
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shaners hadleybeeman: no idea. i just saw it mentioned on twitter by @tomcoates.
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shaners https://twitter.com/tomcoates/status/391237883924733953
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@tomcoates Looks like http://www.dopplr.com/ is finally going away. Like @fireeagle before it, placed in a longboat and pushed out into the misty sea.
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friedcell reading headers before body? not much, but server is still going to make all the effort of making the body
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hadleybeeman Fair enough, shaners. I guess it's not a huge surprise.
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barnabywalters friedcell: good point, I wonder how long that typically takes
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barnabywalters often in order to generate the headers it’ll require the same DB/file access it would to make the body
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barnabywalters which is probably a significantly larger time sink than template rendering
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shaners 1. startup gets awesome on its own
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shaners 2. startup gets bought megalocrop
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shaners 3. startup people leave or get assimilated
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shaners 4. startup gets "sunsetted" / "end of lifed" by megalocrop
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tantek shaners pretty much
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shaners tantek: rinse and repeat
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tantek shaners - note the investors, which probably had something to do with the decision to sell to Nokia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopplr#Investors_in_Dopplr
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friedcell tantek: that's why you have to plan & execute data portability & licensing issues before getting bought by megalocorp :)
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shaners yep
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shaners export on day 1
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tantek this is why POSSE is the right approach, not PESOS
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friedcell barnabywalters: often true, but not always...
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tantek when you POSSE, and a downstream silo gets shutdown, it's like oh well, who cares, I owned the permalinks anyway
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friedcell tantek: true
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tantek with PESOS, you then have to do a bunch of work to switch to posting from your own site
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tantek treat all silos as purgeable caches, nothing more
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barnabywalters tantek: in other words, treat silos like databases ;)
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friedcell barnabywalters: :D
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tantek barnabywalters indeed. I see an architecture diagram forming. ;)
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barnabywalters actually, great point — the relationship between your site and silos is exactly the same as between human readabale flat files and DBs
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barnabywalters s/readabale/readable
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: actually, great point — the relationship between your site and silos is exactly the same as between human readable flat files and DBs
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josephboyle does it depend on the silo supplying convenient APIs for posting and reading?
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tantek josephboyle why would it? PESOS = a dependence on the silo = you're vulnerable when it inevitably shuts down.
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tantek POSSE = maybe your code gets an error code when it attempts to explicitly syndicate out. Which if you code defensively you just ignore and go on your merry way.
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josephboyle if you haven't scraped it yet
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tantek scrape/export status has nothing to do with POSSE vs. PESOS
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tantek hadleybeeman - why don't you update the wikipedia page instead of asking tommorris to do so? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopplr
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josephboyle can you do either without APIs? if not you're dependent on scraping
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hadleybeeman tantek: believe it or not, I don't have a wikipedia account. And I understand it takes a bit of work before they let you do live stuff.
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tantek every even semi-popular service I know of has some sort of API to post/syndicate to it - except Instagram
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tantek hadleybeeman - not true. you can edit anonymously, and it takes <1min to create an account.
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tantek and just another minute to add a sentence at the top about the shutdown
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josephboyle how are facebook's? the most interactive stuff is commenting on people's facebook posts
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josephboyle yes, just make sure you add the source documenting the shutdown
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tantek josephboyle - dopplr.com has it right there on the home page
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tantek so you can just say "on the home page"
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tantek no need for an explicit ref
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tantek josephboyle - is FB interop/POSSE your #1 priority for your personal site?
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josephboyle i'll add it. any other notes?
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josephboyle probably not for mine, but is biggest case for social for people in general
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josephboyle added to wikipedia page
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barnabywalters a quick bit of thoroughly unscientific testing indicates that the time-to-headers-received for HEAD vs GET requests is not significantly different either way
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tantek josephboyle - don't worry about "biggest case for social for people in general" - that's too hard to predict/understand (unless you've got some solid data/studies behind your hypothesis there)
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tantek worry about / build what's the priority for your own personal site instead
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hadleybeeman Absolutely, tantek. And when I have a free extra minute, I'll look forward to starting that. :)
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barnabywalters the only place I can find a consistent difference (HEAD being faster than GET) is on google.com, and there it’s < 0.1 of a second
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tantek hadleybeeman - it doesn't take much longer to edit a wiki page than it does to say something in IRC - so clearly you have free extra minutes :P
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tantek barnabywalters - do you ever link to large JPEGs or other media files? what does your system do then when doing a GET to send a webmention/pingback?
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barnabywalters tantek: yes, quite often. I don’t do any particularly intelligent checking
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tantek yeah - I don't want to accidentally cause massive GET requests
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tantek on my server. so a HEAD first seems like a reasonable defense against that.
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barnabywalters all of this is premature optimisation anyway ;)
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tantek barnabywalters - I disagree - I've already linked to many MB/GB resources in the past - so that's not premature/hypothetical
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tantek it's not optimization, it's defensive programming
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barnabywalters GB? wow, like what?
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tantek from an HTTP requests count point of view, it's *suboptimal* for the common case of HTML files
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tantek GB - highdef video recording of talks
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tantek so it's not optimization at all (at least I don't think so, perhaps cweiske has different opinion/experience)
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tantek I'm doing HEAD first more for defensive reasons (and as an "easy" way to do the Link: header checking first)
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barnabywalters makes sense
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barnabywalters I wonder if opening a GET request to a huge resource and then closing the connection after parsing the headers causes much load for the server
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barnabywalters that’s a little more tricky to test
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tantek tricky = harder to debug too
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tantek is in favor of simpler, more predictable code/interactions
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tantek = easier to maintain code
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peat barnabywalters: probably depends on the server as well.
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peat HEAD +1
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aaronpk tantek: Aral just gave his talk on Indie Data here in Portland
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barnabywalters aaronpk: does realtimeconf have a real time stream?
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk looks like there are cameras, not sure if it's being streamed
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barnabywalters what was the indiedata talk like?
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aaronpk similar to the one in brighton
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barnabywalters didn’t see the one in Brighton
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barnabywalters is caseorganic’s talk on later today or tomorrow?
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aaronpk tomorrow at 4:45 pdt or so
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barnabywalters chrome’s extension permissions are so weird
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barnabywalters you can’t install extensions by downloading them, or by opening the files, and there’s no button in the extensions UI or file menu to install one
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barnabywalters but you can install untrusted extensions with almost no warnings by dragging them in
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tantek aaronpk - what does Aral's indiedata talk have to do with realtime?
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caseorganic tantek: not sure at all, but he was given a standing ovation by about 30% of the audience
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caseorganic tantek: and it was more about focusing on design in open source. started off a little strange and then inspired people, so it was useful
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caseorganic he said that he created the term indiedata - which reminds me. it's time for an official timeline of indieweb
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caseorganic tantek: especially after i give the ending talk
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caseorganic http://indiewebcamp.com/timeline
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aaronpk interestingly the theme of this year's realtimeconf is all anti-silo. http://instagram.com/p/fnbJlnDcuM/
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caseorganic oh right
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caseorganic there is a protest
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caseorganic http://indiewebcamp.com/history might be better
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tantek caseorganic - I had the same thought about /timeline
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caseorganic on silos
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caseorganic tantek: history or timeline - timeline might be more applicable
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tantek each has a purpose
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caseorganic tantek: my talk will be a history, so i can fill in that section after giving the talk
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caseorganic tantek: this happened in the wearable computing community.
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tantek the timeline would be good for key achievements with citations
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caseorganic searches for weblink over frustratingly slow wifi
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aaronpk why is my LTE so bad here!!
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tantek a /history page would be good for a more *thorough* history of indieweb and silos along with deadends of various open source projects
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aaronpk too many nerds with LTE all in the same place
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caseorganic tantek: http://www.media.mit.edu/wearables/lizzy/timeline.html
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caseorganic tantek: good
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tantek case organic - exactly. except we have ISODate to the day granularity
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caseorganic tantek: re: /history vs. /timeline page - i'll stub both out so we have context when filling them in later
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caseorganic tantek: great
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tantek caseorganic - go for it
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caseorganic tantek: ugh, slow internet is slow. this is psychologically demoralizing
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tantek the key is, /timeline for *key* *indieweb* ideas/achievements, and /history for *thorough* *contextual* history
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tantek caseorganic - no problem - don't worry about stubbing the pages then
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tantek focus on the present and collecting data from realtime conf - you can wiki it later
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aaronpk slow internet is the worst!!!
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aaronpk it's like having an arm cut off
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caseorganic.com created /timeline (+229) "Added stub for Timeline page" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - do you know when you (or anyone) first sent a *webmention* that resulted in a cross-site syndicated comment?
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tantek since eschnou's post with federated comments was done via *pingback* not webmention
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caseorganic.com created /History (+176) "Added stub for IndieWeb History page" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh right!
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caseorganic done
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tantek caseorganic - great! I'll add to both
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caseorganic tantek: i'm starting on timeline. will work on it for next 5 min to dump info into it.
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barnabywalters hopefully this’ll make it easier for chrome users to install weave: http://waterpigs.co.uk/extensions/weave/#chrome-instructions
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tantek.com moved /History to /history "lowercase"
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caseorganic.com edited /timeline (+2356) "Added a data dump" (view diff)
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tantek caseorganic - I'm going to move the social network silo stuff to /history - as they're not "key IndieWeb ideas and achievements"
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tantek also danahboyd has a much more thorough history of social network silo history if you're looking for that
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caseorganic tantek: k
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caseorganic tantek: i think that's all my microscopic internet connection can handle
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tantek.com edited /history (+359) "start moving contextual stuff from timeline to this page" (view diff)
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aaronpk here's my feeble attempt at a redirect on gh-pages http://pdx.esri.com/2013/10/11/esri-portland-at-realtime-conf/
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tantek damn. Simon Willison has silo'd up his personal domain/blog on Tumblr, breaking all his permalinks.
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aaronpk ouch
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tantek dammit people, quit breaking your personal blog permalinks. especially if you happen to conceive, invent, implement key technologies. harumph.
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aaronpk we should crowd-source a 301 redirect database
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_6a68 there's always the wayback machine :-\
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aaronpk basically add 301 redirects to indiearchive
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tantek and wikipedia is useless for history here
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tantek ok, glass tell the me the earliest reference on the web to "Pingback"
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tantek even Hixie: "This site is no longer actively maintained. / I mainly post on Google+ now." - http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1032794857&count=1 :(
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tantek THIS is why we have the selfdogfood requirement in #indiewebcamp - look at the greats before us who were seduced by the silos.
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_6a68 tantek: i have noticed a lot of google folks seem to have moved to G+. I suspect there was some kind of internal arm-twisting.
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tantek perhaps in general (e.g. dogfooding), however, Hixie is not someone who bends to any kind of arm twisting
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tantek in his case I believe he made the choice of his own free volition
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_6a68 interesting
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tantek also - note that Will Norris, at Google, still actively maintains and prefers willnorris.com
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tantek (formerly of the G+ team even)
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tantek he's written about it too
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tantek he's very pro indieweb
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tantek.com edited /history (+43) "see also site-deaths" (view diff)
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tantek at least Hixie's permalinks still work
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+1700) "move some non-key indieweb ideas/achievements to history (needs more pruning/focus), research and document Pingback origination dates with citations, linky linky" (view diff)
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tantek ok that's a good enough iteration for now - at least I dug up the Pingback history and we know who to ask for more details if need be
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@t Sad: @Dopplr ends 2013-11-01 (via @tomcoates). Treat all silos as caches, nothing more. #ownyourdata & POSSE to silos. (ttk.me t4Sb1) (twitter.com/_/status/391294554131165184)
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@kragen RT @t: Sad: @Dopplr ends 2013-11-01 (via @tomcoates). Treat all silos as caches, nothing more. #ownyourdata & POSSE to silos. (ttk.me t4Sb1) (twitter.com/_/status/391294943299657728)
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@mhmli RT @t: Sad: @Dopplr ends 2013-11-01 (via @tomcoates). Treat all silos as caches, nothing more. #ownyourdata & POSSE to silos. (ttk.me t4Sb1) (twitter.com/_/status/391295868990930944)
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tantek.com created /Timeline (+22) "r" (view diff)
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@giyom "Treat all silos as caches, nothing more. #ownyourdata" - @t re: @dopplr closing (twitter.com/_/status/391298547997364224)
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+70) "/* needs cleanup */ continue source, ISODates" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /timeline (-3) "ISOdates darnit! ahem, caseorganic ;)" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+154) "note similar resource of wearables timeline" (view diff)
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@smack416 RT @t: Sad: @Dopplr ends 2013-11-01 (via @tomcoates). Treat all silos as caches, nothing more. #ownyourdata & POSSE to silos. (ttk.me t4Sb1) (twitter.com/_/status/391301894053703681)
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@Johannes_Ernst RT @t: Sad: @Dopplr ends 2013-11-01 (via @tomcoates). Treat all silos as caches, nothing more. #ownyourdata & POSSE to silos. (ttk.me t4Sb1) (twitter.com/_/status/391302079941058560)
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+603) "add shortcut key (C)onceived, (T)erm introduced/defined, (E)vent, (I)mplemented, (S)pecified and annotate timeline so far accordingly" (view diff)
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tantek welcome indiewebcamp-vis! use /nick yournamehere to set it to your alias
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tantek aaronpk - perhaps we could teach Loqi to welcome indiewebcamp-vis folks that way
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Loqi is done
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aaronpk tantek: didn't you explicitly not want that kind of thing from loqi? in favor of a human welcome?
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tantek aaronpk - human welcome for new aliases, automatic welcome to a default alias makes sense
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tantek welcome franfran!
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aaronpk that seems reasonable
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tantek (like that :) )
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franfran hi!
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tantek hello! what brings you to our merry channel?
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franfran I was looking at tantek's twitter and then his website and then indieweb looked interesting and so . . .
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tantek cool! do you have your own site?
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franfran I just want to see what it's about and what's going on
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franfran I have my own website but it is very basic I would like to make it do more
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tantek awesome. this is a decent intro into what it's about: http://indiewebcamp.com/
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franfran thank you very much
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@indieboxproject In case you want to try out #IndieBox via Amazon EC2, here are getting started instructions: http://indieboxproject.org/wiki/Getting_started_with_Amazon_EC2 #pcloud #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/391311530748153856)
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aaronpk oh looks like there is a live stream http://2013.realtimeconf.com/
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tantek Aral actually said "We are cyborgs"?!? - caseorganic, he's stealing your old talk! ;)
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tantek https://twitter.com/higley/status/391249782657671168
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@higley “We are cyborgs.” - @aral #RealtimeConf
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aaronpk he did! had a whole "we are cyborgs" sequence of slides straight from amber's talk!
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tantek did he attribute?
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aaronpk no
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tantek did you guys go confront him on it in person? that's majorly not cool.
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aaronpk probably should. not sure how best to do that though
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tantek privately. message him on some channel, and say hey, really liked your talk, have something I wanted to discuss with you in private.
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tantek this kind of thing (which tends to be emotionally impactful) is better discussed/resolved in person
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tantek he might not understand what he did wrong
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tantek so communicating that in person will help convey it. from my understanding he is a caring person and wants to know about things like this.
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@devseo #socialmedia How #xoxofest and #indiewebcamp saved me, in a way. - http://werd.io/entry/5243114abed7de2970c0b2b7/how-xoxofest-and-indiewebcamp-saved-me-in-a-way (twitter.com/_/status/391321787453423616)
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tantek wtf devseo - you've posted that like 3 times already
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tantek !spammer devseo
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Loqi Got it! There are now 4 spammers blacklisted
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peat gives Loqi a botsnack.
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Loqi laughs at the botsnack.
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peat gives Loqi a cupcake.
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Loqi eats the cupcake.
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peat Noted.
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tantek now that was hilarious. well played, peat.
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peat bows.
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peat I'll be here all night.
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peat Probably tomorrow, as well.
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tommorris sees that hadleybeeman asked him to update the Dopplr article
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tommorris checks and sees it has an excellent section on Dopplr's sad demise already
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tantek two week notice
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_6a68 coincidentally the top entry on http://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/
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tantek signs into Dopplr with OpenID delegated to IndieAuth - and it works!!!
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tantek note: http://www.dopplr.com/account/data_export
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tantek and that was fast
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peat That OpenID delegation has saved my bacon a few times.
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tantek hah - the Dopplr Atom export uses georss for lat long, and gdata for start/end times and named location. sad.
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tantek however, the entry <content> has escaped HTML with, wait for it - hCalendar!
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tantek hmm - can't seem to figure out how to export my list of contacts
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@jeena @graue and it is obviously why Tent is listed here too http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture (twitter.com/_/status/391330217685696512)
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tantek whoa: http://brooksreview.net/2013/10/twitters-theoretically-temporary-url-messaging-ban-due-to-massive-wave-of-dm-spam/
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peat Yeah, bit us pretty hard. Had to switch our infrastructure over to public messaging. :/
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peat ... there are some whitelisted sites (eg: cnn.com), but most links get killed.
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aaronpk "But here’s how I read this: Twitter wasn’t overly concerned about DM spam in the higher ups, until one of the higher ups received the spam. Then they squashed it by banning URLs in DMs."
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aaronpk #selfdogfood
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@graue @jeena great link! I've got a lot of reading to do on this IndieWebCamp site, any highlights in your opinion? (twitter.com/_/status/391331247672139777)
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tantek ok I've successsfully exported my contacts from Dopplr :D
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tantek (without any official way to do so)
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tantek love that totally unbeknownst to folks here people are citing /monoculture
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tantek.com edited /site-deaths (+652) "Dopplr shutdown announced today for 2013-11-01 - just two week notice. note data export URL and how to export contacts" (view diff)
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@graue @jeena Hm they're guilty of a similar sin: promoting new thing instead of pingback, without discussing compatibility. http://indiewebcamp.com/Pingback (twitter.com/_/status/391333157695270912)
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tommorris r/window 15
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tantek alright then, I'll add explicit wording on backward compat. sheesh
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/graue/status/391333442928910336
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@graue @jeena Oops. Missed the part about the compatibility proxy, never mind.
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_6a68 lol
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tantek.com edited /pingback (+563) "explicitly mention backward compatibility for reason to receive pingbacks, add new section on How do I implement sending with suggested implementation approach" (view diff)
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tantek this sounds about right: https://twitter.com/jeena/status/391334248319561728
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@jeena @graue I'm sure they don't do everything perfect but they have some great ideas which are much more promising then many of the others.
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tantek that's pretty much a testimonial :)
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tantek aaronpk - care to review my pingback edit for accuracy (since you've implemented sending pingbacks and I haven't) ?
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=pingback&action=historysubmit&diff=5437&oldid=5318
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aaronpk I like this "Just concatenate the strings you need (as documented in that gist) to generate an XML-RPC response by hand"
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aaronpk works for me
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tantek.com edited /pingback (+1497) "add history section, excerpting from timeline" (view diff)
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aaronpk tantek: we have indieweb comments on the new esripdx blog now :) http://pdx.esri.com/blog/2013/10/17/introducting-mapattack/#comments
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barnabywalters aaronpk: nice work! on comments and map attack alike
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barnabywalters bnvk and I are setting up some Reykjavík maps
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barnabywalters have you used the pacman costumes yet?
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aaronpk oh nice!
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aaronpk you figured out how to log in? ;)
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barnabywalters er… twitter log in, right?
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk we hid the login link
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tantek aaronpk - well done!
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barnabywalters oh huh — apparently I have X-Ray HTML abilities then
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aaronpk tantek: thanks! it's fun having real designers to work on this :)
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tantek aaronpk - it's not obvious how to leave a comment - considered the webmention form input approach for the blog?
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aaronpk yeah, they're working on that now :)
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tantek ooh!
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tantek is this the first corporate blog that supports receiving webmentions and displaying comments?
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aaronpk most likely yes :)
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barnabywalters sounds like an item for /timeline :)
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tantek aaronpk - no h-entry markup though, so no reply-context ...
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tantek and your "comment" is a note, rather than a "reply" : http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/10/18/2/realtimeconf-mapattack
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aaronpk ah crap! I had that in the first design, but it was removed with the new design
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tantek can you build in a test for them to run, e.g. using pin13.net to process it and then check the JSON output?
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aaronpk I believe this is the argument most companies use when they say they don't want to add microformats
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tantek (on a permalink of a past blog post that's not expected to change)
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tantek well if you add it to the pre-deploy unit-tests...
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aaronpk heh, a test suite for a static html site :)
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tantek apparently not-so-static if it can "lose" markup
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aaronpk haha
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aaronpk well we just launched the new design, it was something I did really quick before
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tantek which means really quick again right? ;)
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aaronpk probably yeah
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aaronpk but not sure how best to add a test framework here
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tantek presumably they have *some* process before they deploy to make sure they don't break things
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barnabywalters aaronpk: you could either put it in the deploy workflow, or try to make it part of the front end dev’s lives
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aaronpk not on this site, we did it pretty quickly
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tantek so add to that a JSON comparison test for http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpdx.esri.com%2Fblog%2F2013%2F10%2F11%2Fesri-portland-at-realtime-conf%2F that checks for the "right" results
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barnabywalters e.g. if you have an office dashboard, add a “latest blog posts” section which is from parser mf
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aaronpk I think I could reasonably add a rake task that does the test
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tantek barnabywalters - such a dashboard is an *excellent* idea
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aaronpk our front-end guys are pretty familiar with that kind of command line stuff since we're using middleman (ruby) for all our sites
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barnabywalters for a lot of people mf2 data is still too intangible
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tantek building something on top of the API that is the microformats on the page
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tantek indeed
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aaronpk barnabywalters: you mean this dashboard? http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/9804616524/in/set-72157636667627754 :D
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barnabywalters or, even better: make a deploy task which POSSEs the latest blog post to twitter, using mf2 data
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barnabywalters I guarantee any issues will get fixed quickly then ;)
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barnabywalters aaronpk: nice — using the Panic iOS app or something else?
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aaronpk yeah!
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aaronpk got early acces to that app since they're just down the street
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