#indiewebcamp 2013-10-25

2013-10-25 UTC
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tantek acegiak - moderation will get quickly overwhelmed and depressing
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tantek that's one of the reasons Akismet is giving up on Pingback
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tantek moderation is not a reasonable/scalable/sustainable part of the answer to defense against spam
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bret spam block plus easy list filter ;)
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bret jk
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /rel-in-reply-to (+173) "Linked to consumption algorithm" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /in-reply-to (+144) "Noted use of p-in-reply-to h-cite for reply contexts" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /consuming (+164) "Added links to various building-block consumption guides" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /feed (+22) "/* How to consume */ clarified which feed formats are a bother" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /h-entry (+948) "/* Using h-entry */ mentioned usage of h-entry in different contexts, stubbed how to consume section" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /consuming (+45) "Linked h-entry" (view diff)
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snarfed.org edited /backfeed (+282) "/* Debate */" (view diff)
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@xtof_fr #WordPress menacé de #spam sur protocoles de communication #indieweb #todo étude migration #jekyll http://christopheducamp.com/w/2013-298 #monoculture (twitter.com/_/status/393611732033101824)
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cweiske when receiving webmentions from and to fragmented URLs, shall the existance of elements with that name be checked, too?
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cweiske example.org/foo#bar would need to contain a id="bar" html tag
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JonathanNeal Loving the free SSL https://konklone.com/post/switch-to-https-now-for-free
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jsmansart Hello
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@ErikMartinWilln RT @jaimee_brooker: #FF @bookplugs @BookYrNextRead @IndieAuthorLand @AuthorNetwork. Great advocates & resources for authors, esp #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/393679802257121280)
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acegiak pfefferle: morning
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Jihaisse hi acegiak
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pfefferle good morning acegiak and Jihaisse
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acegiak hey jihaisse
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acegiak has anyone tested semantic linkbacks with pfefferle's fix?
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acegiak I'm about to have a go with it
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pfefferle not yet… had a lot to do the last days… perhaps on weekend
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acegiak hmm. now im not getting anything, which is interesting
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Jihaisse acegiak: no. Is it ready for testing ?
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acegiak Jihaisse: hmm apparently not
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Jihaisse ok, I will wait
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pfefferle perhaps we could extract the "parser" code into an external lib to use unit testing...
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acegiak http://a.tgcdn.net/images/products/zoom/f141_mostinterestingcoder.jpg
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pfefferle :)
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pfefferle that's true, but I think it's easier to test the parser separately from the pingback/webmention stuff to check where the error occurs
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acegiak I'm just replying to myself en-masse and then I'll delete them all later
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pfefferle not the easiest way to test code ;)
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Jihaisse clearly
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Jihaisse http://www.commitstrip.com/en/page/8/
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acegiak 404?
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Jihaisse no
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Jihaisse proxy ?
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acegiak hmm it was just being weird
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pfefferle barnabywalters is it against the spec to extend the h-* entries with a "value" attribute that holds the complete html-code of the element?
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pfefferle or let's call it html to be more compatible to "content"
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barnabywalters pfefferle: what is this solving?
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acegiak ok so it's definitiely the hentry walker that's giving me trouble
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pfefferle that would make it way easier to check if the link is inside the entry… the rest should be only to check the type of the mention
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pfefferle there are a lot of ways to markup "replies", "likes" or "rsvps" and it is a lot to check to get the right h-entry
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pfefferle it would be easier to get the h-entry with pregmatching the link and THEN checking for the type (like, reply, rsvp)
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barnabywalters you should never have to do that — there should only be one top-level h-entry on post permalink pages
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Loqi yea
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acegiak ok I need to head to bed, I'll do some more tomorrow
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acegiak night all
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pfefferle nevertheless do i have to check a lot of attributes to be sure the link is part of the h-entry
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tantek pfefferle: The link doesn't have to be part of the entry. It just typically is.
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tantek Where are you getting the impression/requirement that you have "to be sure the link is part of the h-entry"?
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pfefferle tantek but that is a good way to spam… if someone has a link to an article of my page in a global area (for example in a blogroll), then potentially every webmention from every site is a valid reply!?!
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tantek pfefferle: Spam has to do with *who* it is coming from, not what page.
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pfefferle not really, because everyone could send webmentions from the command line… if it is his page or not
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tantek And in such and example, those would only be mentions not replies.
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tantek *an example
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tantek I would also file that "problem" aa theoretical until we see a real world example.
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Jihaisse challenge accepted
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Jihaisse is kidding
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pfefferle ok, let me summarize that… validating a request could be: check if site has mentioned the target-url anywhere on the site… get the first h-entry and use it as a for example reply?
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pfefferle ah ok… Now I think I got it… Check if site has mentioned target-url… Check first h-entry if it has any kind of reply merkup -> it is a reply… if not it is a mention… ?!?
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barnabywalters sounds like we need a new consumption algoritm
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barnabywalters how to determine whether or not a page links to another, and if it does, of what type is the link
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tantek Ok ok I'll get my laptop. Still dark outside here in SF.
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pfefferle yes… for example a site has a rel-in-reply-to link outside the h-entry… is the h-entry a reply or not?
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Jihaisse why a site have an rel-in-reply-to outside the h-entry ?
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barnabywalters I would say yes, but we’d need to find and document an actual example
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barnabywalters let’s start with what people are actually publishing at the moment
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tantek es
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tantek yes
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tantek barnabywalters - it's also about keeping the specs simple
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pfefferle but that is a problem… there are a lot of different markups that people use...
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tantek pfefferle, I think you are making it sound harder than it is. So we need to be more explicit.
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tantek barnabywalters - there are three levels to this:
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tantek 1. is it a valid webmention?
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tantek 2. does the link back have any rel semantics? if so, use them
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tantek 3. is there an h-entry on the page? if so, use it for comment/RSVP content
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tantek that's it
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tantek (1) is a required part of webmention - does the source actually have a link to the target
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pfefferle that's true
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barnabywalters why prioritising rel values over potentially more detailed h-entry properties?
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tantek and is required for *anything* that implements webmention, e.g. a webmention proxy
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pfefferle ok
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Jihaisse is it possible to have many h-entry on a page ?
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tantek barnabywalters - because a simple rel value is MUCH easier to publish
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pfefferle Jihaisse yes
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barnabywalters Jihaisse: you shouldn’t have more than one top-level h-entry on post permalink pages
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tantek prioritizing ease of authoring
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barnabywalters tantek: understood, but if people *have* published more detailed info, why not try to consume that first
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pfefferle tantek yes, but you can't be sure if it has a relation to the first h-entry on the page
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tantek Jihaisse: of course it is, e.g. an archive page, but typically it doesn't make sense for those to send webmentions
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tantek barnabywalters - that's reasonable. we can treat rel-only markup as a fallback from h-entry markup
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tantek pfefferle - it doesn't matter - if the first h-entry on the page *doesn't* relate to that link, then people will debug that quickly
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barnabywalters tantek: that’s what I specified in http://indiewebcamp.com/in-reply-to#How_to_consume_in-reply-to
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tantek just as barnabywalters quickly debugged the bad double-marked up hentry/h-entry problem recently
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tantek pfefferle - now if you're trying to write a webmention *validator* for people to check their posts with - that's a different story - then you can do all kinds of "lint" like warnings etc.
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pfefferle ok… building instead of speculation ;)
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tantek checking for common problems etc.
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tantek barnabywalters - reading...
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pfefferle it's not for a validator it is for production
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tantek in production it's better to just implement the algorithm we figure out
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tantek rather than add bunches of edge cases and stuff
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pfefferle ok, true
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tantek ooh nice use of <var> barnabywalters :)
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barnabywalters has been reading the HTML5 spec again
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pfefferle ???
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barnabywalters pfefferle: <var> is an element for identifying text as being a variable name
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barnabywalters perfect for use in prose algorithms like the ones on the wiki
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pfefferle ah ok thanks :)
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Jihaisse so the link ton have to be in the h-entry
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tantek edits the algorithm a little bit
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tantek.com edited /in-reply-to (+493) "/* How to consume in-reply-to */ provide more understandable summary, tweak algorithm details to make it simpler / more robust to code, note may use different algorithm if produces same results" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /in-reply-to (+6) "/* How to consume in-reply-to */ use a subhead for algorithm" (view diff)
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tantek barnabywalters, please review ^^^
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barnabywalters tantek: looks good to me
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barnabywalters I’m compiling a list of consuming algorithms and guides at the top of http://indiewebcamp.com/consuming
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tantek great. I think in general we should provide brief prose summaries that help answer questions like in the discussion we just had here in IRC
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barnabywalters feel free to add any I’ve forgotton
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tantek nice
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barnabywalters tantek — good plan
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tantek also - there's a bunch of potential FAQs up there
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@INEXAdvisorsLLC RT @indieboxproject: @INEXAdvisorsLLC: "Why Makers Matter In the Internet of Things" http://inexadvisors.com/2013/10/18/five-reasons-why-makers-are-more-than-hobbyists/ #pcloud #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/393746067147083776)
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tantek huh
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tantek.com edited /in-reply-to (+1112) "add an FAQ with two questions asked today (that feel like they'll come up again)" (view diff)
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tantek pfefferle, Jihaisse, please review: http://indiewebcamp.com/in-reply-to#FAQ
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tantek.com edited /in-reply-to (+1) "/* Why would an in-reply-to be outside an h-entry */ '" (view diff)
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pfefferle tantek answers both questions!
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tantek great!
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pfefferle tantek we had a discussion about using mf2 to markup the wordpress plugins-list, to consume it on other places… do you have an ideas what to use or should i define a posh-format?
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tantek pfefferle - not sure - what's the use case?
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tantek is this for downloads in general?
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tantek or just plugin downloads?
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tantek also, might want to take a new microformats/poshformat discussion over to #microformats
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@StuTrevithick @aral "Google is the greatest threat to Privacy and human rights" #OwnYourData #TEDxBrighton (twitter.com/_/status/393750646555688960)
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pfefferle I want to build a wordpress plugin that lists all indieweb plugins around to make it as easy as possible to install them… and barnabywalters had the idea to use the wiki as "source"
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tantek fascinating
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tantek pfefferle - do you really want to make it that easy? I mean, won't that just help spammers spam the indieweb?
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tantek (since spammers love to install wordpress spam blogs)
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pfefferle not yet, the plugins are providing some helpfull stuff but you can't use them without indieweb and mf knowledge yet… and i am not sure if this will ever change...
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barnabywalters pfefferle: start with what information do you need in order to generate the plugin installation UI and actually install the plugins?
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barnabywalters then make a draft mf2 vocabulary out of that, reusing as appropriate from existing ones
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barnabywalters then implement it and fix whatever problems become obvious
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tantek also - the plugins list right now is quite a hodgepodge
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tantek plenty of things there you don't need for the indieweb - that list needs some better curation
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tantek pfefferle - more importan than a format, is a higher quality list itself
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pfefferle tantek what's the problem with the list?
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notizblog.org edited /WordPress (+4) "/* Web Actions */" (view diff)
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notizblog.org edited /WordPress (+54) "added indieauth plugin" (view diff)
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tantek pfefferle - it's giant pile right now
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tantek and as far as "don't need for the indieweb"
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tantek for example, Salmon, all the Syndication plugins
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pfefferle the syndication plugins are for POSSE
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tantek and for Login, all you need is IndieAuth, you don't need separate OpenID or BrowserID/Persona
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tantek oh - so that's not clear
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tantek when I've shown this to other folks who have Wordpress - their response is - wow I have to install all of that?!?
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tantek it looks intimidating
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pfefferle will change the name
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tantek and often it's not clear which plugin does what and why would you want to install it (what indieweb capabilities do you get when you install it)
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barnabywalters there’s a salmon comment plugin for wordpress? people actually use salmon?
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pfefferle yes, but is that a problem? you said you want to scare spammers ;)
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tantek maybe move some to a "Related Social Web" section below?
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tantek pfefferle - the point about scaring spammers was a bit of a joke ;)
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tantek the irony is that designing for ease of use for a "typical" wordpress user and a spammer is likely to be very similar
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tantek we can't really avoid that
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tantek a typical wordpress user will likely just want an "indieweb" plugin that "does all the right indieweb things"
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tantek we're not there yet
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pfefferle No, seriously… I like to build plugins to fit only a specific problem and not to solve all IndieWeb "problems"
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tantek but at least we can minimize the set of plugins that are *essential* indiweb plugins
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tantek and then maybe list optional indieweb ones below that
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tantek and then list past/old technology ones (like Salmon, OpenID etc.) below that
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tantek pfefferle - that's totally fine - modularity is good
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tantek however, we should provide them in at least those priority clusterings for ease of discovery by new wordpress folks
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tantek 1. essential for indieweb
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tantek 2. optional for indieweb
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pfefferle ok
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tantek 3. past/old technologies
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pfefferle barnabywalters noone is using salmon… i built it for my ostatus plugin… long time ago...
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tantek and that way people can focus if they want
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pfefferle tantek ok
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tantek.com edited /WordPress (-42) "/* WordPress software */ no longer Aaron Parecki blog - he's now using p3k for that" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /WordPress (+7) "/* Themes */ change to more unique heading since Themes is used above" (view diff)
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tantek thanks pfefferle - looking forward to seeing which plugins go in which set
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pfefferle you can have a look in 5 min ;)
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tantek :)
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notizblog.org edited /WordPress (+268) "rearranged the plugins" (view diff)
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pfefferle what about changing "Attendees" to "community members"? http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress#WordPress_software
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barnabywalters pfefferle: I like “creators”
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pfefferle I can also live with "creators" ;)
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barnabywalters that decouples it from people who are active here/in person
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tantek sweet
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tantek I've changing it to participants
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tantek pfefferle - there is a difference
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tantek we've been drawing a (minor) distinction between those who have actually made it to an event
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tantek e.g. see projects#WordPress
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tantek er http://indiewebcamp.com/projects#WordPress
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pfefferle yes, but do you want to only mention the attendies?
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tantek ^^^ mentions both
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barnabywalters e.g. barry frost isn’t a “community member” per se, but has been doing some awesome work and deserves to be mentioned in implementation listings
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tantek barnabywalters - hence "Other independents"
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tantek again, see http://indiewebcamp.com/projects#WordPress
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pfefferle am i part of the "attendies" if i attended two camps remotely?
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pfefferle ;)
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barnabywalters pfefferle: you’re certainly active here
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tantek pfefferle - yes that should count :)
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pfefferle nice :)
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tantek the realtime aspect of the participation is key - also it demonstrates a greater commitment to the community
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tantek (the time spent participating)
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tantek (in an actual event, even remotely)
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barnabywalters I suppose listing them separately helps give people a sense of how easy they are to engage, how likely they are to respond to questions etc
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tantek barnabywalters - people like to get a sense of how involved are people
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pfefferle true
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tantek and indiewebcamp participant vs. community member vs. other independents is a good sorting for that
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pfefferle what are you thinking about the clustering? http://indiewebcamp.com/wordpress#WordPress_software
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pfefferle I will add a simple description to every plugin any time soon
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tantek one second - editing
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pfefferle so it's easier to understand what they are doing
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pfefferle oh, the hashtags plugin isn't really essantial
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pfefferle and i was not sure about the url-shortener
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tantek.com edited /WordPress (+485) "add explicit people section, break it down, group Plugins in a common heading, add subsections, trim subheads" (view diff)
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pfefferle nice!
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tantek.com edited /WordPress (-18) "/* Essential IndieWeb plugins */ grammar" (view diff)
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pfefferle like it!
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tantek pfefferle - I took a guess at clustering the essential plugins - please feel free to reorganize and fix - as you know more about them than I do obviously: http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress#Essential_IndieWeb_plugins
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tantek also I don't know which of those are actually essential - you would know better
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pfefferle no it's perfect! i only will add some summaries
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tantek if any there should be moved to "optional" please do so!
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tantek thanks - that will help a lot - even just a few words summary (to fit on the same line)
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tantek and then we can start seeing what other wordpress users think when they see the page
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notizblog.org edited /WordPress (+0) "moved some plugins to "optional"" (view diff)
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tantek I know there are WordPress users that want to be "more indieweb" but they're not sure how - if this page can help them - that would be great!
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pfefferle tantek you are really hard to openid :)
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tantek pfefferle - openid had its chance as is now a bit of a disaster (from a standards/community perspective)
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tantek indieauth is a much better replacement
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tantek plus as a *user* of openid, I can now use indieauth as my openid provider
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tantek so I *really* don't need to worry about it
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tantek pfefferle - and it's not just me - aaronpk struggled with lots of problems trying to consume OpenIDs for the wiki when we set that up at first
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tantek this page is looking much better
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tantek thanks so much pfefferle - this will help a lot
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tantek I know a bunch of wordpress users (e.g. at work, Mozilla) and they've been asking what they can/should install - and I honestly didn't know!
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pfefferle your welcome ;)
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tantek now I will send them to http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress#Essential_IndieWeb_plugins :)
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tantek who else here is using WordPress on their primary domain?
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pfefferle acegiak and Jihaisse for example
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barnabywalters briansuda does, I’m sending him the link
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pfefferle will norris
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pfefferle but he is already on the list
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pfefferle how can i link to someones profile page on the wiki, but using the name instead of the domain?
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barnabywalters pfefferle: [[User::username|Real Name]]
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barnabywalters oops, only one colon
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pfefferle thanks
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barnabywalters s/::/:
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pfefferle does someone know the profile page of Crystal Beasley
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pfefferle found!
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notizblog.org edited /WordPress (+97) "linked users" (view diff)
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tantek pfefferle - there's a bunch more people listed here that you could copy to the WordPress page: http://indiewebcamp.com/projects#WordPress
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pfefferle sure
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tantek once you've copied them all over, we can perhaps shorten the list on the "projects" page to just IndieWebCamp participants, since the WordPress page will have the full list
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notizblog.org edited /WordPress (+183) "Added the people from the projects page" (view diff)
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tantek speaking of WordPress: http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/10/healthcaregov-why-didnt-the-white-house-use-wordpress-175764.html (LOL)
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notizblog.org edited /WordPress (+84) "added Erin Jo Richey" (view diff)
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@cznweb #FF @OpenITP @OTI @IndieWebCamp @Redecentralize (twitter.com/_/status/393767252547620864)
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@OTI RT @cznweb: #FF @OpenITP @OTI @IndieWebCamp @Redecentralize (twitter.com/_/status/393767311863476225)
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@OTI @cznweb @OpenITP @indiewebcamp @redecentralize Thanks! (twitter.com/_/status/393767338140372993)
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tantek.com edited /WordPress (-1) "TOC tweak" (view diff)
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pfefferle ok, think i moved them all
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tantek hmm - looks like we lost some URLs
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tantek.com edited /WordPress (+163) "/* People using WordPress */ add explicit URL links for participants with primary site" (view diff)
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tantek makes it easier for people to one-click go see what their wordpress usage looks like
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tantek (and verify that yes that person is using wordpress)
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pfefferle ok
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tantek !tell skinny Looks like you haven't signed into IndieWebCamp.com since we switched over to IndieAuth - could you sign-in and create your user page (even with just your name and link to your site) so we can link you up on other pages?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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notizblog.org edited /WordPress (+51) "/* People using WordPress */" (view diff)
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pfefferle i think we can remove the whole part from "IndieWebCamp participants using Wordpress:" to "Jekyll" and reference the http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress#People_using_WordPress list… what do you think?
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tantek.com created /User:Crystalbeasley (+318) "stub with Crystal's info from 2011 and projects page" (view diff)
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tantek pfefferle - it helps to see a list of people in the broader context of projects
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tantek to compare which projects have how much uptake/usage
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tantek we can do some trimming now though
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tantek though I do like xtof's explicit listing of the plugins he uses
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tantek so I'm going to leave that
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pfefferle ok
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tantek.com edited /WordPress (+104) "/* Themes */ move P2 theme here from the projects page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /WordPress (+43) "/* People using WordPress */ move aaronpk screenshot here from projects page" (view diff)
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pfefferle tantek I think we should copy the research part of christophe ducamp to a "research" section on the wordpress section
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tantek yeah I was trying to figure out what to do with that
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tantek here is one attempt
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tantek one sec
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tantek.com edited /projects (-463) "/* WordPress */ trim this section down to a summary and listing of IndieWebCamp participants using Wordpress since the main WordPress page is much better now!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /projects (+1) "/* WordPress */ with" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /projects (+35) "/* Jekyll */ add some details" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /projects (+21) "/* WordPress */ Will Norris is selfdogfooding WP-Hum (he's the author" (view diff)
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tantek ok pfefferle -I'm done touching those pages for a bit - have at it
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tantek.com edited /WordPress (-101) "/* People using WordPress */ (remove stub notice now that pfefferle took care of that :) )" (view diff)
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tantek (except for that one edit)
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tantek :)
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pfefferle :)
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notizblog.org edited /projects (+195) "added the plugins I am using/working on" (view diff)
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pfefferle tantek thanks for your help!
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tantek thank yoU!
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tantek also - we should add acegiak as a community member in that list
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tantek on the WordPress page
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tantek.com edited /projects (+21) "note selfdogfooding of webmentions plugin" (view diff)
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pfefferle community member?
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tantek.com created /User:Acegiak.machinespirit.net (+88) "stub with an h-card" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /WordPress (+172) "/* People using WordPress */ add acegiak" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /WordPress (+1) "/* People using WordPress */ ]" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /WordPress (+130) "/* WordPress software */ add summary about plugins and significant IndieWeb functionality" (view diff)
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tantek ok - *now* I'm stepping away from the keyboard ;)
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pfefferle :)
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pfefferle have a nice day
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tantek Thanks again pfefferle - I think we've made the /WordPress page *a lot* friendlier and more usable. Now to try it out with more WordPress folks and see if the indieweb plugins get more installation and feedback.
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pfefferle and perhaps some help :)
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tantek yes! :)
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@DerZyklop Suche vernünftigen RSS-Reader für meinen Vater. Hat Firefox aber kein Facebook/Google/Twitter…das kann doch nicht so schwer sein! #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/393798329110659072)
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mikeal brianloveswords: i really want a pirate radio station now
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sparverius mikeal: there's a few in SF
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tantek.com edited /webmention (+154) "/* IndieWeb implementations */ link to sites that accept webmentions to make it easier to check how they're publishing discovery information" (view diff)
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brianloveswords mikeal: it's gonna happen! Or, at the very least, I will *try* to make it happen :D
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tantek hmm - either tommorris turned off his webmention discovery, or never had support for webmention in the first place?
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tantek !tell cweiske I'm seeing a 504 at http://cweiske.de/ - hope you get that sorted out soon!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /webmention (-89) "/* IndieWeb implementations */ update a few discovery implementations, can't find any sign of webmention on tommorris.org (home or permalinks) so commenting out" (view diff)
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tantek is there anyway on github to search a particular person's repos?
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aaronpk I believe the search bar scope can be changed
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tantek advanced search apparently
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tantek and you have to specifically click Code to search code and not just repo names
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aaronpk oh, no, just use the search bar on the repositories tab https://github.com/aaronpk?tab=repositories
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aaronpk ohh you're trying to look for code? cool
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tantek e.g. searching someone's repos for "curl" to see how they use it :)
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aaronpk nice
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tantek you do a lot of curl aaronpk ;)
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aaronpk haha
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tantek I'm thinking of writing a small function to do a head curl and turn any Link: headers into same JSON return format as the canonical microformats2 parsing output
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tantek with the rel collection
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aaronpk oh interesting
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tantek wondering if that would be useful to anyone else - it's how I'm going about building a building block for my webmention discovery code
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tantek basically just treating the HEAD like another document with microformats
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aaronpk that's an interesting pattern
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tantek I don't know if it is useful or not, so I'm going to try building it to find out
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tantek feels like a good way to isolate away HEAD-specific logic
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aaronpk yeah, makes sense
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tantek tends to overthink things before coding.
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aaronpk usually a good plan
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aaronpk I feel like my coding tends to be either way more overthought or way less thought through than yours :)
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tantek I also like small contained bits of code I feel like I can write quickly, test, and then park.
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aaronpk totally. i've been trying to modularize more stuff that way too, like the webmention client and such.
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tantek it's also the only way I've found so far to incrementally open source my code in a way that won't cause me huge maintenance/support headaches
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aaronpk totally
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tantek and google is useless for searching for anything "LINK:" :P
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pdurbin I feel like I try "link:" once every 3 years and it never works
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tantek pdurbin I'm actually searching for the literal "Link:" as in what most webmention implementations are returning in the HTTP HEAD
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tantek rather than the link: search operator
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pdurbin oh oh. carry on :)
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pdurbin we could use a search engine that supports regex
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shaners another site death: do.com
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shaners http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=7fac71dd0dfba815e14fe7cef&id=341c11a519&e=74b178af37
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peat ... the front page image is pretty dark considering the discontinuation message. "It's time to say goodbye."
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tantek what was do.com?
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