#indiewebcamp 2013-10-30

2013-10-30 UTC
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benwerd I remember the whole GIF licensing controversy, too. If everyone would just pick up something license-unencumbered, we'd be golden. But yes, JS dynamic codecs could well be the answer.
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KevinMarks I remember m'colleague at Apple modified a hardqware y2K countdown clock for the Unisys patent expiration so he could check gif into QuickTime
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_6a68 lol
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KevinMarks how QT lost it: http://epeus.blogspot.com/2006/01/how-apple-lost-its-web-video-mojo-and.html
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tantek KevinMarks - what do you mean by start an "OpenTwitter"?
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tantek (also I'm having trouble following your possibly nested double-quotes)
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KevinMarks that was someone else's post, let me find the source
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tantek ah this: https://twitter.com/morbital/status/395333511940304896
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@morbital @edbott somebody needs to start an "OpenTwitter"
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tantek KevinMarks - your "MT" style breaks Twitter threading
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KevinMarks that's 'cos I used the offical twitter app, sorry
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peat heh.
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tantek now that you have your domain back, time to start setting up tweeting from your own domain
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KevinMarks if you use quote tweet on android, it doesn't post an in-reply-to
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peat tantek: Tell me more about this "tweeting from your own domain" thing.
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@morbital/status/395333511940304896 was the one I quoted
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@morbital @edbott somebody needs to start an "OpenTwitter"
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KevinMarks see the in-reply-to
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KevinMarks I do indeed, @t. I am debating what to install (or whether I want to write my own)
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KevinMarks pump, idno, make you cases
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aaronpk pump doesn't yet have microformats2, although several of us have been threatening to send a PR with a bunch of markup added
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KevinMarks I don't really want to use something in PHP
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aaronpk hehe
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aaronpk why not?
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KevinMarks I just find writing PHP really irritating. Probably old prejudice
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KevinMarks I was looking at Ghost, but it seems to be gigantic already, and markdown and microformats don't mix well
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aaronpk I write my posts in markdown
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aaronpk didn't ghost reject barnaby's PR with microformats added?
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KevinMarks yep, he said that
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KevinMarks so do you decorate them with inline HTML for microformats? Or have you extended markdown?
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aaronpk well so far I haven't had a reason for the body of the article to contain microformats
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aaronpk so my rendering engine just wraps the generated HTML with the appropriate microformats
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KevinMarks makes sense.
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KevinMarks I want to make my live-tweet collations better, which are mainly big <cite> blocks
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aaronpk ah yeah
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aaronpk that's true, I do have a post like that too
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aaronpk I ended up adding some extensions to markdown to give myself some shortcuts
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KevinMarks eg http://www.kevinmarks.com/demo13notes.html
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2012/09/01/1/some-enhancements-to-markdown
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KevinMarks currently wiht crappy markup
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KevinMarks you should send those to Ghost :D
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Loqi I agree
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aaronpk hah yeah
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aaronpk a friend of mine was asking about ghost the other day
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tantek Ghost is in danger of walking the monoculture path.
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KevinMarks the @ thing is what I do crudely in noterlive. I should really generate a better hCard with URL and twitter links
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aaronpk maybe we can help them avoid that?
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tantek aaronpk - barnabywalters already tried
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tantek similarly, tent.io is a lost cause
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tantek they're bleeding people from their community
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aaronpk tent.io I understand
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aaronpk but with ghost, it's ultimately a blogging tool, so there's no reason it should turn into a monoculture
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tantek because they've gone too far down the dark monoculture one-codebase-to-rule-them-all path
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aaronpk really? i haven't been watching closely enough to see that
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tantek yeah
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tantek do a search on "tent indiewebcamp" in twitter
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KevinMarks ghost has or tent has?
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tantek tent is already lost
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tantek ghost may be salvageable
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aaronpk also, that is a great summary of monoculture
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aaronpk "one codebase to rule them all"
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tantek aaronpk - feel free to add it to /monoculture if you think so :)
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KevinMarks http://epeus.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-antifragility-of-web.html
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aaronpk this appears to be a hosted version of tent https://cupcake.io/
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KevinMarks now I'm wondering if I should install several tools on my site and be a polyculture
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aaronpk KevinMarks: lol
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tantek hmm - that search didn't work. searching again...
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tantek KevinMarks - installing several tools on your own site = a big vulnerable mess IMO
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KevinMarks I can put them on subdomains
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KevinMarks ghost.kevinmarks.com
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KevinMarks pump.kevinmarks.com
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KevinMarks maybe
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aaronpk not very sustainable, but fun if you want to play around
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KevinMarks then I can self-posse
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tantek sounds like a big fragile mess KevinMarks
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tantek what happened to simple and minimal?
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KevinMarks I've had simple and minimal since '07: https://web.archive.org/web/20070423135954/http://kevinmarks.com/
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KevinMarks in the meantime, everything I wrote went elsewhere
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tantek re: tent, here you go: https://twitter.com/jeena/status/391334248319561728
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@jeena @graue I'm sure they don't do everything perfect but they have some great ideas which are much more promising then many of the others.
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tantek read that thread from the beginning
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tantek KevinMarks - why did everything you write go elsewhere? Is it not on github?
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KevinMarks I meant blogposts and tweets
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aaronpk oh yeah I remember that thread
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tantek ah - elsewhere in the silos
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tantek aaronpk - yeah, right after that thread I updated the webmention page to be more explicit about pingback compat ;)
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tantek the wiki was evolving in response faster than they could share links to it
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tantek and this one: https://twitter.com/jeena/status/391330217685696512
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@jeena @graue and it is obviously why Tent is listed here too http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture
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tantek.com edited /projects (+17) "/* Tent.io */ start a main page since we've got more content and quotes to add" (view diff)
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www.kevin-marks.com edited /monoculture (+285) "/* Disadvantages */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks I am wondering about the silo metaphor a bit. It's actually really easy to move grain in and out of silos, that's kind of the point.
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KevinMarks control of the silos did lead to hegemonyin the ancient word, yes, but grain is more fungible
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tantek.com edited /monoculture (+54) "link to main tent, diaspora" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Tent.io (+812) "stub with text from projects and monoculture and quote citations" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Tent.io (+326) "articles" (view diff)
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KevinMarks maybe the silo metaphor does work - http://www.silo.org/benefits.htm 'The switch from horizontal to vertical storage can increase milk production totaling well over $100/cow/year*(7)'
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tantek.com edited /Tent.io (+673) "add blockquotes, criticism section" (view diff)
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tantek ok aaronpk, KevinMarks, I've now collected the criticism about tent in one place so it's easier to find, reference
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/Tent.io
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tantek how long til that page is on page 1 of google results for tent.io?
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tantek.com edited /Tent.io (+166) "Why tent.io will flop and what we should learn from it" (view diff)
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KevinMarks I like this graphic: http://www.silo.org/page_top.gif
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tantek 1400x69px?
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KevinMarks well, quite
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KevinMarks Silage is what you end up with when you store your fresh posts in someone else's silo? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silage
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tantek KevinMarks, I think I need to bring back the Matrix quote paraphrasing
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tantek What are the silos? Control. The silos are computer-generated dream worlds built to keep us under control in order to change a human being into this. [holds up chart showing clicks on ad units]
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tantek I have a better silo graphic for you KevinMarks: http://www.energyenhancement.org/matrix02.jpg
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KevinMarks but that makes them looks really cool
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tantek of course. The silos are seductive.
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tantek.com edited /silo (+47) "matrix silo image" (view diff)
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pdurbin tantek: 'Anything pitched as a single project by name, e.g. "Tent server can connect to any other Tent server" [emphasis added] is likely to inevitably descend into a monoculture' -- http://indiewebcamp.com/Tent.io ... but isn't Tent supposed to be a protocol? i.e. "SMTP server" or "DNS server"
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tantek.com edited /silo (+390) "add perspectives section - feel free to add your own" (view diff)
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pdurbin seems a little harsh
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tantek to silos, you are the product
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tantek pdurbin - are you involved with the Tent "community"?
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pdurbin nope. I heard about tent when it came out, I guess. that's about it
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@kevinmarks @rohit_x_ @mathewi @morbital @edbott @davewiner well https://join.app.net/ is a silo, albeit a paid one: http://indiewebcamp.com/silo (twitter.com/_/status/395358223554711552)
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pdurbin John Siracusa talked about it on Hypercritical
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tantek.com edited /silo (+13) "/* Popular Silos */ medium" (view diff)
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tantek is John using Tent himself on his own personal site?
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pdurbin no idea
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KevinMarks wondering about helloworld now
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pdurbin KevinMarks: hmm? is that a thing?
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KevinMarks https://github.com/mimecuvalo/helloworld
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pdurbin python, at least :)
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tantek.com edited /Medium (+470) "add Criticism section" (view diff)
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KevinMarks yep
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KevinMarks OK, tonight I install all the projects, and see which one I like
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pdurbin +1
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KevinMarks or throw my hands up and write my own (which is more indie?)
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pdurbin KevinMarks: I'm especially curious what you think of pump
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aaronpk when evaluating, I'd be curious to hear things like ease of installation, and ease of customization
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KevinMarks If only I had some software to take notes...
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KevinMarks but first, Pho
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@t @morbital there is no "OpenTwitter" There is only openly tweeting from your own site. Join us. #indieweb #indiewebcamp (ttk.me t4Sn5) (twitter.com/_/status/395360884778090496)
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KevinMarks tantek - this looks very like your photo: https://twitter.com/tatiana/status/395361423464726528
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@tatiana Just a reflektor... https://twitter.com/tatiana/status/395361423464726528/photo/1
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tantek !tell benwerd an indieweb tagged post aggregator would be cool - but as pointed out in that thread - unless you have a new approach to the spam problem - don't bother.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@kevinmarks @tatiana eerie how much that looks like the human silos in the matrix: http://indiewebcamp.com/silo https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/395395633680355328/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/395395633680355328)
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@leimer RT @giyom: Imagine the #indieweb equivalent to banking: #indiebank i.e. ppl pooling deposits w/ open source software to drive resilient pym… (twitter.com/_/status/395403074316935168)
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@5SeenGeno RT @giyom: Imagine the #indieweb equivalent to banking: #indiebank i.e. ppl pooling deposits w/ open source software to drive resilient pym… (twitter.com/_/status/395416687002279936)
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@lmjr RT @t: @morbital there is no "OpenTwitter" There is only openly tweeting from your own site. Join us. #indieweb #indiewebcamp (ttk.me t4Sn5) (twitter.com/_/status/395431755701702656)
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp
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hadleybeeman Good morning, tantek
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tantek continuing with the Matrix paraphrasings...
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tantek Do not try and bend the silos. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. ... There is no need for silos.
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tantek anyone here implement re-syndication discovery as part of their reply interface?
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tantek (for POSSE threading replies)
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tantek.com edited /rel-syndication (+1306) "add subheads, expand use-cases, POSSE threading, describe discovery algorithm" (view diff)
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tantek !tell barnabywalters just wrote up a rel-syndication discovery algorithm, take a look and please review. http://indiewebcamp.com/rel-syndication#Discovery
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+118) "/* post reply to any URL and auto POSSE */ link to POSSE use-case and discovery algorithms" (view diff)
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@pbarbe RT @giyom: Imagine the #indieweb equivalent to banking: #indiebank i.e. ppl pooling deposits w/ open source software to drive resilient pym… (twitter.com/_/status/395451489441021953)
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Jihaisse Hello
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KevinMarks hello there
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tantek evening Jihaisse and KevinMarks
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tantek KevinMarks, continuing with the matrix/silo analogy: https://twitter.com/t/status/395457511534632960
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@t Do not try and bend the silos. That's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... there is no need for silos. (ttk.me t4So1)
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tantek !tell aaronpk do you know when you started supporting rel=syndication links? FYI I added them 2013-06-23, day 2 of IndieWebCamp 2013.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@howardshipp_in RT @t: Sad: @Dopplr ends 2013-11-01 (via @tomcoates). Treat all silos as caches, nothing more. #ownyourdata & POSSE to silos. (ttk.me t4Sb1) (twitter.com/_/status/395458879309746176)
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tantek !tell benwerd do you know when you started supporting rel=syndication links? FYI I added them 2013-06-23, day 2 of IndieWebCamp 2013.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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cweiske sourceforge is phasing out openid support :/
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cweiske https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/site-support/5733/
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tantek.com edited /rel-syndication (+1053) "add IndieWeb Examples section" (view diff)
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tantek cweiske: could you add it here? http://indiewebcamp.com/OpenID#Abandonment
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tantek welcome back KevinMarks_ :)
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KevinMarks_ I clicked on facebook and my chromebook rebooted
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cweiske oh how I hate mediawikis link syntax
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cweiske.de edited /OpenID (+122) "/* Abandonment */ sourceforge" (view diff)
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Jihaisse is someone has tried Ghost ?
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KevinMarks_ I built it this morning, haven't really tried it yet
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KevinMarks_ barnaby made a microformats template
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Jihaisse ok, not too hard to built ?
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KevinMarks_ it deosn't always say when you need to sudo in the instructions, but otherwsie went OK
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KevinMarks_ mind you, I built it locally, haven't tried deploying it somewhere else yet
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Jihaisse ok
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tantek KevinMarks - what language is it written in?
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Jihaisse tantek: seems 100% javascript
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pfefferle good morning
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Jihaisse hello pfefferle
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Jihaisse timezone friend
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pfefferle :)
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Loqi barnabywalters: tantek left you a message on 10/29 at 11:36am: - here's an original-post-discovery challenge - how do we find benwerd's original posts from his FB POSSE copies e.g.: https://www.facebook.com/ben.werdmuller/posts/10100631599571559
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Loqi barnabywalters: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 42 minutes ago: just wrote up a rel-syndication discovery algorithm, take a look and please review. http://indiewebcamp.com/rel-syndication#Discovery
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pdurbin KevinMarks_: how did the various installations go?
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rtaibah Hello all. Interested in the idea of the "indie web" thought I should stop by say hi, make some friends.
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barnabywalters greetings rtaibah!
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Jihaisse hi rtaibah
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barnabywalters do you have a personal site?
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rtaibah ramitaibah.com haven't been updated for eons
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rtaibah But I am also on Twitter @rtaibah
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rtaibah Or twitter shall remain unspoken of here :P
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barnabywalters no, twitter is good for notifications and social back-compatibility :)
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neuro` But not for spreading resources to search engine
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barnabywalters you should add come contact info to ramitaibah.com and link it to your twitter account
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barnabywalters see also: http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started
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rtaibah barnabywalters, what is your website?
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barnabywalters waterpigs.co.uk
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barnabywalters our general take on silos like twitter is that you should publish things to your own site first, then syndicate copies out to silos
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barnabywalters so you control your data and posting UI, but all your friends can still keep in contact with you
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barnabywalters called POSSE, for post on your own site, syndicate elsewhere: http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE
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rtaibah I have worked on something trying to tackle this issue from a 'valuable memories' point of view. http://memorykloud.com/ischool
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tommorris and if POSSE is impossible, then PESOS (publish elsewhare, syndicate to own site.
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barnabywalters rtaibah: hm, that link doesn’t work for me
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rtaibah barnabywalters, wait lemme see
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barnabywalters http://memorykloud.com/ischool gives me a 404, http://memorykloud.com/ischool and your personal site seem to be empty
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rtaibah barnabywalters, well seems like I am in a pickle. This is hosted on mediatemple, I wanted to move away from them (after the GoDaddy acquisition.) Now they suspended my account and asking me to pay for the next year...grrr
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rtaibah Migration is a hassle
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barnabywalters wow that’s nasty
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barnabywalters sorry to hear that :(
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rtaibah Anyways I will figure it out.
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rtaibah MemoryKloud: The assumption is that you don't really need to own or preserve everything, but only the memories that you cherish (wedding, newborn, graduation...etc)
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pdurbin rtaibah: doesn't the preservation of pictures aid our memories?
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pdurbin rtaibah: and hello! welcome! :)
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rtaibah pdurbin, yes of course it does! Images, videos, microblogs, blogs, sound bites....etc all take a part. The problem is that these are fragmented between platforms/users
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pdurbin rtaibah: so you could use something like https://github.com/ginatrapani/ThinkUp to capture tweets, etc. ... but you're anti-preservation?
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jihais.se edited /IRC_People (+47) (view diff)
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jihais.se created /User:Jihais.se (+52) "Added myself." (view diff)
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rtaibah pdurbin, no not anti at all, where did you get that from? I haven't looked at Thinkup for a while. But MemoryKloud's (my grad school final project I was talking about) idea was that it depended on user-defined events. i.e capture anything that has to do with my newborn from all these networks. Then create a scrap book out of it or something.
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pdurbin sounds nice. sorry, keep talking and I'll understand better
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rtaibah pdurbin, lol yeah, I wasn't clear because I assumed I will have the website to do the talking. My host locked me out without me noticing.
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rtaibah This is a video http://vimeo.com/41753226
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pdurbin it is to cry T-T
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pdurbin bookmarks it
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barnabywalters woah we hit 80 members — I think that’s the peak so far
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Jihaisse world guiness record
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barnabywalters waves to everyone
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Jihaisse have a beer
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pdurbin dances
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barnabywalters !tell tantek,benwerd RE facebook OPD, I added a basic shim for facebook permalink post pages. Brrr disgusting markup. https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2-shim
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi tantek: barnabywalters left you a message 33 minutes ago: RE facebook OPD, I added a basic shim for facebook permalink post pages. Brrr disgusting markup. https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2-shim
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tantek barnabywalters - what are you doing to clean/tidy the markup before attempting to parse it?
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barnabywalters nothing, but I made a pretty-printed copy of the page so I could make sense of it
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barnabywalters and in post content I’m replacing their nasty shortened links with the real links
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tantek oh - are you using LoadHTML or something and letting PHP deal with the mess?
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tantek ooh - nice unshortening!
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tantek you did something harder (I think) than what I was asking for
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barnabywalters yeah, the shims just inherit from the main parser, so I get all the unicode HTML loading and <base> URL resolution for free
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tantek I wanted a way to semi-automatically find benwerd's *original* werd.io post from his FB POSSE copy
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tantek I couldn't figure that out
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barnabywalters well, there’s no way to do that until he starts adding that data
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barnabywalters but you can do it with the posts I manually POSSE to fb
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tantek maybe need to just lean on him to start adding permashortcitations?
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barnabywalters that would fix it
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tantek he could even use werd.io - short enough that no need to use a different shortener domain
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tantek !tell benwerd what would it take to convince you to put (werd.io 2013-10-30-t1) style (or shorter) permashortcitations in the POSSE copies of your notes posts on FB, Twitter etc.? cc: barnabywalters [original-post-discovery] <- old school tag.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Jihaisse when you POSSE to FB or Twitter, you can backfeed replies
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tantek Jihaisse - you've got that working on your site?
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Jihaisse but is it possible to POSSE thoses backfeed too ?
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Jihaisse tantek: yes, I'm using "Social" plugin for wordpress
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Jihaisse tantek: for example : http://jihais.se/t/10g https://twitter.com/jihaisse/status/395522299882770433
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@jihaisse Si vous aimez manger les mignons petits animaux. http://bonsetmignons.tumblr.com #miam http://jihais.se/2013/10/30/bons-et-mignons/
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tantek Jihaisse - nice! Is that the "Social" plugin listed here under POSSE? http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress#Plugins
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Jihaisse tantek: that's it. I've added it to the wiki
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Jihaisse for now it don't manage the permashortcitation
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Jihaisse I have to hack it
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tantek that's ok - you have a permashortlink on your tweet which works!
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Jihaisse yep, that's a start
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tantek Jihaisse - one improvement would be if your permalink on jihais.se also linked to the Twitter POSSE copy with rel=syndication per http://indiewebcamp.com/rel-syndication
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Jihaisse ok, I see
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Jihaisse I will figure out how to do this
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Jihaisse I add it to my TODO
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tantek looks for a TODO section on http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Jihais.se :)
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Jihaisse :) it's on my evernote
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tantek I encourage you to add a "Working on" section to your user page with at least short summaries, like: http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Tantek.com#working_on
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tantek it helps encourage others to work on things too - and it's interesting seeing everybody's different focus and priorities
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Jihaisse ok
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tantek I also put a lot more detail on what I'm working on for Falcon (my personal site publishing software) http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#Working_On
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Jihaisse I've created my page just a few hours ago
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tantek it helps me to think out loud by writing it up publicly like that
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tantek yes! I saw! :)
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tantek I also like http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Aaronparecki.com as a good example
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Jihaisse so, TODO: add a TODO list on indiewebcamp
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tantek :D
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Jihaisse I will take examples on aaron an your pages
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Jihaisse I'm writing for myself in english now… WTF
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tantek awesome!
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tantek barnabywalters - I'm working on my rel-syndication parsing/discovery code and I'm wondering what's the best current PHP approach to extracting that stuff from potentially messy markup. Would like to avoid regex/scraping if possible.
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tantek is digging through php-mf2-shim code to try to find its approach
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barnabywalters tantek: why not just use php-mf2?
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barnabywalters that gets you u-syndication and rel=syndication parsing
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barnabywalters PHP DOMDocument is pretty good at handling messy markup
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tantek barnabywalters - where do I start to understand the "just use this one file" approach - e.g. what adactio asked for?
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tantek (since I'm not hip to composer yet)
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barnabywalters https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2#installation
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barnabywalters see second paragraph
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tantek ooh!
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tantek I'm totally going to do that
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+29) "/* post reply to any URL and auto POSSE */ use php-mf2 for this" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /php-mf2 (+756) "stub with basic use instructions" (view diff)
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tantek there you go barnabywalters - made a stub page for php-mf2 for easier referencing on the wiki :)
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barnabywalters oh cool thanks
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tantek I have to curl the page myself right?
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barnabywalters is there a #microformats wiki page about consuming mf data? I’ve been learning a ton of stuff about it recently, and solidified much of it into useful functions in mf-cleaner
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tantek is there an option to tell php-mf2 to only parse rel values?
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barnabywalters tantek: yeah, php-mf2 doesn’t fetch URLs
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tantek cool np
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barnabywalters RE only rels, see https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2#parsing-rel-and-relalternate-values
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tantek re: about consuming mf data - not sure what you mean, there's the parsing spec - beyond that what questions are you looking to answer?
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cweiske tantek or others - do you remember the blog post that someone removed social login because it wasn't worth it? which was that?
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barnabywalters hm, I guess most of the specific questions I’d answer are vobab-specific and would be better placed on iwc/consuming
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barnabywalters cweiske: http://indiewebcamp.com/NASCAR might be a good place to start looking
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cweiske looking there already
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cweiske didn't find it yet
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cweiske http://blog.mailchimp.com/social-login-buttons-arent-worth-it/
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barnabywalters hmmm
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cweiske there
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tantek cweiske - on the webactions page
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tantek cited there afaik
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cweiske btw, how short is the session lifetime in the wiki?
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cweiske I have to login every couple of hours
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tantek barnabywalters - hmm - vocab specific or property specific?
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tantek cweiske - that is odd - mine stays logged in for longer than that
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barnabywalters usually property specific, I suppose
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barnabywalters seeing as they’re usually consistent
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tantek interesting
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tantek maybe start stubbing pages about them at /property-name pages?
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tantek on microformats.org/wiki/
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tantek at least braindump your notes / thoughts / learnings
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tantek and we can take it from there
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+132) "/* post reply to any URL and auto POSSE */ more implementation details" (view diff)
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tantek is excited to incorporate php-mf2 into Falcon (finally!)
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Jihaisse "I was, um, not super happy to get that email."
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Jihaisse lol :D
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barnabywalters is excited that one of the founders of microformats is using his microformats parser ;)
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tantek cweiske: see articles linked from http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions#Drop_Social_Buttons
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cweiske yep
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tantek mailchimp one is down there in the next section too
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Jihaisse hum
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Jihaisse so, is delegating login to a third parts like fb or twitter for indieauth is a good way ?
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tantek jihaisse - because it's ephemeral/transactional delegation, it's ok
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tantek not great, but ok, and certainly better than (Facebook Connect) or the equivalents for other silos
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Jihaisse and I think there is too much steps for login
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tantek also - provides better UI flow and fallbacks than OpenID
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tantek so it's an incremental improvement
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tantek perhaps that should be an FAQ
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Jihaisse 1. you write your url
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Jihaisse 2. You choose one provider
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Jihaisse 3. you login
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Jihaisse 4. you have to accept
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Loqi !calc 4. you have to accept
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Jihaisse 5. you are redirected
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barnabywalters 3 and 4 disappear after the first time, 5 isn’t really a step, as such
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barnabywalters it’s not something the user is actively involved with
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Jihaisse I have 4 evertimes I want to login with twitter
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barnabywalters oh, weird — I haven’t used twitter for a while as github is faster
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Jihaisse good to know :)
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Jihaisse I'm going
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Jihaisse see ya
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notizblog.org edited /User:Notizblog.org (+1255) "added some informations" (view diff)
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notizblog.org edited /User:Notizblog.org (-2) "/* working on */" (view diff)
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tantek awesome pfefferle!
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pfefferle I read your discussion ;)
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tantek :)
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tantek thank you for helping set a good example
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pfefferle oh, forgot an image
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pfefferle do i have to upload one or can i also link to an image?
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tantek either is fine
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notizblog.org edited /User:Notizblog.org (+32) "added photo" (view diff)
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notizblog.org edited /User:Notizblog.org (+38) "added some floats" (view diff)
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snarfed re automatically finding original posts in POSSEd copies, FB and G+ let you attach explicit links to posts, so i've been using that
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tantek.com edited /IndieAuth (+784) "add explicit FAQ section to group existing questions, add new question from IRC" (view diff)
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snarfed it's what http://www.brid.gy/ and https://salmon-unofficial.appspot.com/ use
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snarfed it's not ideal, since that attached link is valuable real estate, and often you want to put something else in it, but it works
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snarfed permashortcitations are new to me
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snarfed they'd probably be better. adding to my todo list
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tantek snarfed - awesome
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snarfed hey barnabywalters, i've been using php-mf2 from the command line to get a fast testing loop - which is great, thanks for writing it! - and i'm seeing odd results
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snarfed e.g. http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http://snarfed.org/2013-10-23_oauth-dropins finds the post h-entry and its content fine
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snarfed but this command line only finds the comment:
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snarfed curl http://snarfed.org/2013-10-23_oauth-dropins | php -f Mf2/Parser.php -E 'echo json_encode(parse(file_get_contents("php://stdin")), JSON_PRETTY_PRINT);'
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snarfed am i doing anything obviously wrong? does php-mf2 head have in-progress changes, or maybe pin13 doesn't use php-mf2?
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tantek pin13 lags php-mf2 head a bit
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snarfed sure, makes sense. still, it's a noticeable regression, which is a bad sign for my markup, if not more
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tantek !tell barnabywalters apparent change between pin13 and php-mf2 head a possible regression - see: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-10-30/line/1383155851
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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snarfed thanks. i'll start leaving tells in the future.
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Loqi barnabywalters: tantek left you a message 2 minutes ago: apparent change between pin13 and php-mf2 head a possible regression - see: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-10-30/line/1383155851
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tantek :)
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barnabywalters ooh thanks, attempting to replicate…
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snarfed i'm a php novice, and it's cluttered markup, so it's very likely something on my end
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rtaibah Ok, so I've been through the website, read the getting started, any other readings you guys recommend. I heard Jeremy Keith on The Web Ahead talk about this, I want more of where that came from.
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Loqi gives rtaibah more of where that came from
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tantek lol
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barnabywalters snarfed: what specifically is going wrong? using latest version is working okay for me
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tantek rtaibah - more to watch here: http://indiewebcamp.com/videos_about_the_indieweb
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rtaibah Thanks tantek
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barnabywalters ah, okay, only the comment — checking
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snarfed yeah
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tantek feedback welcome!
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barnabywalters hm something strange is going on here
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barnabywalters snarfed: I made a new test case from the source of your site, and it parsed fine using exactly the same version as your command line script was
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barnabywalters trying to figure out what’s going on now
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@ralphm RT @t: Updated: How To Export Your Data From Dopplr http://tantek.com/2013/294/b1/export-your-data-from-dopplr @dopplr shutdown in 4 days. #ownyourdata #indieweb (ttk.me t4Sm1) (twitter.com/_/status/395616487433445376)
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snarfed parsed fine meaning it found the article h-entry?
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barnabywalters yep
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snarfed feel free to ignore me while debugging. thanks for looking
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snarfed huh. that's odd then.
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barnabywalters my hunch is that file_get_contents() is returning some extra stuff
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barnabywalters or not enough
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snarfed yeah, very possible
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barnabywalters yep — try running this:
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barnabywalters curl -S http://snarfed.org/2013-10-23_oauth-dropins | php -f Mf2/Parser.php -E 'echo file_get_contents("php://stdin");'
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snarfed i'm obviously open to a different command line
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barnabywalters looks like php://stdin is being read from the wrong place, or is just being truncated
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barnabywalters there might be some settings somewhere which can fix it
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snarfed huh
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snarfed ok, thanks. glad it's not a php-mf2 bug
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snarfed i can take it from here
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barnabywalters I should just make a script which does exactly this (fetches data from a page and spits it out as JSON) and include it with the download
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barnabywalters snarfed: no problem, thanks for bringing it up!
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Loqi fo sho
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snarfed totally! combined with a local server, it's a killer edit/compile/test loop
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barnabywalters okay, building that now
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barnabywalters this is a good excuse to play with composers’ bin installation settings
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message on 10/29 at 6:33pm: an indieweb tagged post aggregator would be cool - but as pointed out in that thread - unless you have a new approach to the spam problem - don't bother.
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 10 hours, 38 minutes ago: do you know when you started supporting rel=syndication links? FYI I added them 2013-06-23, day 2 of IndieWebCamp 2013.
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Loqi benwerd: barnabywalters left you a message 4 hours, 20 minutes ago: RE facebook OPD, I added a basic shim for facebook permalink post pages. Brrr disgusting markup. https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2-shim
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 14 minutes ago: what would it take to convince you to put (werd.io 2013-10-30-t1) style (or shorter) permashortcitations in the POSSE copies of your notes posts on FB, Twitter etc.? cc: barnabywalters [original-post-discovery] <- old school tag.
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benwerd blinks
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benwerd !tell tantek I don't need convincing re: POSSE links
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benwerd it's on my list. Just need to carve out the time to do it, and figure out what the most sensible / shortest syntax is, given I don't use your style of permalink.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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snarfed.org created /User:Snarfed.org (+3471) "first pass" (view diff)
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snarfed.org edited /User:Snarfed.org (+114) "ostatus-unofficial tweak" (view diff)
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Loqi tantek: benwerd left you a message 28 minutes ago: I don't need convincing re: POSSE links
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benwerd oh, weird. Loqi snipped off the rest of my message.
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benwerd Guess s/he doesn't like semicolons, like all the best editors.
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benwerd Re: links - It's on my list. Just need to carve out the time to do it, and figure out what the most sensible / shortest syntax is, given I don't use your style of permalink.
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barnabywalters snarfed: I added fetch-mf2 and parse-mf2 commands to the dev version of php-mf2, they turn up in vendor/bin if you install using composer. One fetches from a URL, the other parses from stdin, both output pretty JSON
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snarfed great! i use the github repo, so i'll just pull. thanks!
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snarfed barnabywalters: hmm. did you mean the shebang lines to be /usr/bin/env php ?
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barnabywalters I copied that from phpunit — is /usr/local/php better?
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snarfed got me, i've just never seen env used as a directory like that before. i think it's pretty much always a binary or symlink to one
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snarfed /usr/bin/env php is what i'd expect, and works for me, but i don't know php conventions, so i'll defer to you
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barnabywalters oh it might just have been a typo on my part. fixing now
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snarfed thanks!
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barnabywalters okay, pushed — try now
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snarfed thanks. i edited and started already. just finished installing composer via homebrew, but it's not seeing that it's installed. debugging that now.
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barnabywalters installing composer via homebrew? interesting
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barnabywalters what commands are you running and what error are you getting?
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snarfed fetch-mtp doesn't find the composer install location
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snarfed php-mf2 assumes it's installed by composer? or in a standard php lib path?
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barnabywalters those binaries used to assume they were installed by composer, I added another check which should let them run from a bare cloned repo
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snarfed lol, thanks, sorry for all the hand-holding
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snarfed works! very cool. thanks again.
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barnabywalters are you sure you have the latest version? I just cloned the repo without ever involving composer and it worked
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barnabywalters oh yay!
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Loqi woot
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snarfed now to convince bnvk and eschnou to accept webmentions on their sites again :P
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aaronpk benwerd: I'm not a fan of the "missing slash" links either :)
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 11 hours, 46 minutes ago: do you know when you started supporting rel=syndication links? FYI I added them 2013-06-23, day 2 of IndieWebCamp 2013.
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aaronpk !tell tantek what do you mean "supporting rel=syndication links"? When I started publishing them or when I started following them on other peoples' posts?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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benwerd aaronpk: would be so much easier if we could hang per-post "from" data on these sites
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aaronpk totally. app.net supports that actually!
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barnabywalters app.net have delivered on many of their promises — surprising, in a completely pleasant way
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aaronpk yeah, dalton is a nice guy, and really wants to do the right thing
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barnabywalters do they mark it up with rel-canonical?
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snarfed aaronpk, benwerd: agreed re permashortcitation (missing slash) links. i don't have a good alternative suggestion though, especially for places like silos where you can only control content, not markup.
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barnabywalters looking for the last link in the POSSE copy is fairly robust
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snarfed yeah, i use the explicit link attachments for FB and G+, which is similar. it's valuable real estate for rendering inside silos though, so i may switch to last text link
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barnabywalters snarfed: in the FB UI I can’t see a place to explicitly add a link (automatically determined from content) — can you only do that via the API?
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barnabywalters heading off, good night
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Loqi sweet dreams
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snarfed !tell barnabywalters re FB links, yeah, it's "magic" UI. it automatically appears when you paste a link into the text box.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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Loqi tantek: aaronpk left you a message 2 hours, 17 minutes ago: what do you mean "supporting rel=syndication links"? When I started publishing them or when I started following them on other peoples' posts?
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tantek aaronpk, when you started publishing rel=syndication markup on your links to "also on Twitter"
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tantek but yeah, would be good to know when you started consuming rel-syndication links for actual use within p3k
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aaronpk tantek: I added the rel=syndication attribute on April 10, 2013
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tantek nice
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tantek interesting, before the first tederated indieweb comment thread
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tantek.com edited /rel-syndication (+0) "aaronpk publishing since 2013-04-10" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk did you blog/note about supporting rel-syndication?
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aaronpk no, didn't seem significant I guess
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tantek.com edited /rel-syndication (+268) "/* Discovery */ clarify similar algorithm same result ok, e.g. simultaneous parsing" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk and when did p3k start looking for rel-syndication links?
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tantek !tell benwerd - and the other questions? when did you start publishing rel="syndication" markup? and does idno look for (consume) rel-syndication links when you're posting a reply?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+476) "/* 2010 */ add RelMeAuth milestones" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /RelMeAuth (+1106) "add summary, testimonials, implementations list" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+93) "/* 2012 */ IndieAuth implementation milestone" (view diff)
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