#indiewebcamp 2013-11-03

2013-11-03 UTC
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dougmckown Any thought on the use of Squarespace as host? Qualify as #indieweb if I have my own domain name?
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bret dougmckown: not familiar with squarespace, but you can alwaysr compare against http://indiewebcamp.com/principles
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dougmckown bret, sorry...walked away from laptop and battery died
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dougmckown I know how to write HTML and CSS to create my own site, but I don't know how to add a blog to it...
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dougmckown I crated a self-hosted WP blog, but then I lose control of HTML (and I don't know any PHP.
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dougmckown back later...
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tantek bret, dougmckown, FYI: http://indiewebcamp.com/squarespace - feel free to add (even questions) to that page
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tantek bret, general formula for "not familiar with xyz" [service or project] - check for a page with that name on the wiki ;)
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tantek and if it doesn't exist, create a minimal stub with a one sentence description to the best of your knowledge
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tantek good evening indiewebcamp
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tantek.com edited /pump.io (+60) "see also" (view diff)
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Jeena evening? It is 7am over here in Sweden ;)
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Jeena bret, which database did you use for your pump.io instance?
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bret i'm just using mongo db
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Jeena ok
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Jeena I'll try to install it now too
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bret im having issue getting it to work
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bret super frustrating
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bret the DB part worked fine though
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Jeena I read over there that you're trying it locally on your computer
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Jeena are you behind a router?
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Jeena if so then you'd need to forward the port on it so it knows to which computer it has to go
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bret Jeena yeah this is not trivia at all
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bret trivial
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bret aparently if you misconfigure you need to flush your pump DB
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Jeena yeah it is like with Magento (the eshop thingy) they save the domain/url in the database somewhere
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Jeena and as long as you don't have any data in it it is easy to just flush the db instead of trying to fix it there
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bret gah
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bret DB tax
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Jeena that is a shame, pump.io doesn't work in a subdirecotry, only on root of your domain, so you need to use a subdomain and buy another ssl certificate for it
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aaronpk good evening! looking forward to the festivities tomorrow!
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tantek good evening!
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tantek Jeena - interestingly enough, that same root dir only assumption is built into Falcon (what I'm building)
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tantek bret DB tax indeed
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aaronpk I think a lot of software assumes it's installed at the root dir of a domain
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Jeena perhaps you could work around that in some way? People like me almost always already have some kind of blog or something else running on root
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aaronpk I think that's the SOA and delegation approach
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Jeena aaronpk, I understand that this makes the development a bit easier but it is not that complicated to add some string before all urls you produce
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aaronpk webmention and indieauth have that built in, because you add a tag on your home page to point to the appropriate enndpoints to use, they don't make any assumptions about your webmention or indieauth server
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aaronpk Jeena: i'm not sure what you're asking me to do... i've got nothing to do with the development of pump.io or anything similar
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tantek right, none of the protocols we use assume root dir
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Jeena that is actually the best approach, Tent does that now too, so every Tent server can have different endpoints
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tantek but individual CMSs obv have their own assumptions
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Jeena not you, I asked tantek with his Falcon ;)
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tantek Jeena - as with many projects, directory independence is not a priority ;)
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tantek certainly compared to other things
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Jeena yeah ...
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tantek and I'm not even sure it makes sense for the way Falcon is architected - which is that it asserts a policy about specifically designed URLs, short URLs etc.
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Jeena It is just so much easier to implement if you do it right from the beginning
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tantek the "already have some kind of blog" doesn't make sense - because it's supposed to be your blog too
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aaronpk you'll find this community is very selective about the things we choose to agree on, many of us have strongly differing opinions on various things but are still able to make things work between all our domains/software
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Jeena yeah, but people also have landing pages, etc.
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tantek so if you already have some kind of blog, the expectation is that you export it and then import into Falcon (or whatever)
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tantek landing pages are pretty dead Jeena
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tantek even one of the longtime holdouts, adactio, gave up in the past year
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tantek and switched his home page directly having recent posts
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Jeena or me and my brother want to use the same domain (our last name) and use two directories for our first names, there are tons of reasons I can think of ;)
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Jeena but yeah the most important is that I already have something else in my root, on http://jeenaparadies.net for example I have links and short summaries to different parts of the website
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Jeena I use ownCloud, firefox sync, tent and my blog on the same domain
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Jeena ah and TinyTinyRSS too
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Jeena mostly because I want to run all of them via the one ssl cert I got
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aaronpk ah yeah the SSL problem
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aaronpk I finally broke down and got a wildcard cert for *.pin13.net so I can use it for all my random stuff. It was only like $80/year so it wasn't too bad.
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Jeena yeah that is kind of the only reasonable thing to do if you want to test differnt stuff like pump.io and now obviously Falcon ;)
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aaronpk just stumbled across this, interesting read: https://al3x.net/2008/09/08/al3xs-rules-for-computing-happiness.html
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Jeena "Do not use web applications that should be desktop applications." wah! I actually wrote a SoundCloud client just for me because of this :D
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Jeena every time I got a call while listening on the website I couldn't find the right virtual desktop, the right window, the right tab and the pause button on the website
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aaronpk lol yeah
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Jeena (and it didn't scrobble to lastfm)
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aaronpk I still dream of having a complete digital archive of everything I've ever done and produced online in an easily searchable and browsable form
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aaronpk (speaking of lastfm)
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aaronpk including chat logs, text messages and phone call logs
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Jeena hm I wonder if you can get the data out of lastfm
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Jeena hehe yeah
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aaronpk oh you totally can
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aaronpk i've been PESOS'ing from last.fm to my own DB for years
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Jeena ah nice
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aaronpk actually technically it's not PESOS because I don't publish it, just archive it
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Jeena jesus, that is actually quite a lot you can do with their API http://www.last.fm/api
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tantek aaronpk - your last.fm account is a "publishing" of sorts - even if it is only private to your friends
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tantek yes - their API is quite amazing
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aaronpk tantek: oh I meant that I'm pulling from last.fm but only archiving it in my own DB, not re-publishing on my own site, so it doesn't fulfill the "SOS" part of PESOS
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aaronpk yes, really good API. I'll be sad when it goes away.
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tantek ah ok - that piece
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Jeena I subscribed to their Event RSS feed for my city which is really cool because I haven't found any other RSS feed with the information of who is playing in the (not so distant) future here so I can buy tickets, etc.
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Jeena the cool thing is that they even have a good way to generate money with their "Buy this Album/Song" links.
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tantek Jeena - yeah, affiliate links are one of the less annoying online ad-like models.
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aaronpk good night! see you in the morning!
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Loqi sleep tight!
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Jeena night aaronpk
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@kjmobb @kazarnowicz @TWkLGBTQ i think it's less about regulating FB, more about making it irrelevant via something like the #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/396940215396216832)
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@philip_roberts @janl I'm mostly just looking for somewhere safe and portable to store stuff for indieweb/data type projects. (twitter.com/_/status/397040536269627392)
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Loqi [@benwerd] Full-on sick. Best wishes to everyone at #indiewebcamp LA today
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Loqi driving down would not be smart. (http://twtr.io/ePu4P93jML)
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aaronparecki.com edited /User:Aaronparecki.com (-213) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /User:Aaronparecki.com (+43) (view diff)
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pdurbin Jeena and bret: "happy to help [set up pump]" -- https://twitter.com/evanpro/status/397054233897623552
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@evanpro @philipdurbin I'm happy to help!
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Jeena hehe damn sometimes one forgets that you guys log and publish the logs to the web ;)
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aaronpk Jeena: heh. it's in the channel topic!
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Jeena yeah, I never read the topics!
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rknLA i'm running a bit late, but heading over to farmhouse around nowish. see some of you in a little while!
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aaronpk cool
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tantek Also running late. Driving over. ETA 10:45ish.
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tantek Parked in the driveway - is that cool shaners?
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@AmirAmazig Checking an old tweet, with a link to an interview of TBL, the urlshorter recycled the link :( #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/397078159444561920)
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bret Would love to remote in today
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bret anyone willing to set up a google hangout?
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Loqi barnabywalters: bret left you a message on 11/2 at 2:09pm: awesome indie pipes!
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barnabywalters Thanks bret
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bret barnabywalters: you going to be around today remoting in?
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barnabywalters I’m pretty tired but if there’s a hangout I’ll sit in for a bit
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bret brb for a bit
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bret ok here
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@kevinmarks @dangillmor yes indeed. One reason I think #indieweb is so important. (twitter.com/_/status/397091922759520256)
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@aaronpk @AmirAmazig that's annoying! Got a link to the tweet that happened with? #ownyourdata (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/11/03/1/ownyourdata) (twitter.com/_/status/397096171820154880)
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bret grrr, gmail no longer allows new iphones to use exchange
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bret even if the accounts was using it already
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bret aaronpk, is there a google hangout?
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aaronpk OH: Who is this guy and what has he shipped?
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barnabywalters aaronpk: that’s what we want to hear!
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barnabywalters how’s it going so far?
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aaronpk getting a super late start
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aaronpk still cleaning up from last night, and a bunch of us went out to breakfast
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bret heh
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bret whats happening? any eitherpads?
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tantek.com created /Hollywood (+28) "redir" (view diff)
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bret Jeena, any luck with pump?
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bret i had to go to bed last night
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Jeena hehe yeah I had too, I gave up because I didn't have a second ssl certificate, I need to get one first
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bret Jeena you dont NEED one to get up and running
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bret but yeah eventually
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Jeena and it is a bit uncool that I need to run it on a subdomain
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aaronpk you can always self-sign to test
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Jeena yeah but that is always very problematic
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bret Jeena have you seen this? https://konklone.com/post/switch-to-https-now-for-free
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Jeena yeah the cert I already have is a gratis one from StartSSL
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Jeena I'm not sure when I get to it and if it is important enough for me to get it working yet.
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tantek.com edited /2013/Hollywood (+359) "draft stub schedule" (view diff)
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barnabywalters indie pipes now has graph refreshing and in-context debugging: http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/
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barnabywalters try dropping some modules in, filling in some values, running the graph and clicking each module to see what it’s output is
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tantek.com created /schedule (+37) "current schedule" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Schedule (+7) "current schedule" (view diff)
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aaronpk I'm writing up some stuff here https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp-la
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tantek.com edited /Guest_List (+1) "update for Hollywood" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+12) "update for Hollywood" (view diff)
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snarfed barnabywalters: so fun!
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snarfed glad someone's picking up the yahoo pipes torch
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snarfed looks like no way to delete blocks yet?
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barnabywalters snarfed: nope, not yet
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barnabywalters snarfed: were you a Y! pipes user?
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snarfed lightly
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tantek greetings from IndieWebCamp Hollywood
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snarfed i also liked the other Y!OS stuff they did a while back. similar building blocks for code, as opposed to visual UI
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barnabywalters greetings tantek
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barnabywalters snarfed: ooh, hadn’t heard of that — looking up
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snarfed http://snarfed.org/yql_yahoo_query_language_thoughts
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snarfed http://snarfed.org/2008-12-16_yos_yahoo_open_strategy
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snarfed afaik it was largely sam pullara's baby, and languished now that he's gone (i think)
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barnabywalters snarfed: did you make your site’s header image?
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snarfed nah, it's an earthsat picture of iraq
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snarfed no politics intended, just pretty
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snarfed the whole earthsat collection is great
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barnabywalters yeah, lovely colours — very metallic
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@aaronpk @AmirAmazig Was curious which URL shortening service did this, to add a citation to http://indiewebcamp.com/why (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/11/03/2/) (twitter.com/_/status/397129301453070336)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/11/03/2/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/why (webmention)
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barnabywalters I’m pretty sure pipes only still exists because it uses the same infrastructure as YQL and that happens to still exist
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aaronpk probably they forgot which server it's on and it's just sitting there running
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barnabywalters aaronpk — lol
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aaronparecki.com edited /2013/Hollywood (+48) "add etherpad url" (view diff)
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barnabywalters I made a bunch of screenshots/casts and downloaded the docs, just in case
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aaronpk they don't know how to turn it off and it's easier to not deal with it
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aaronpk barnabywalters: that's awesome! very glad to hear
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barnabywalters also downloaded the YQL blog, for history
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barnabywalters aaronpk: any ideas on what’s the best place/way to publish it?
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barnabywalters “it” being a folder of images, HTML, video
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aaronpk assuming there's no copyright issues, why not on your site?
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barnabywalters …
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barnabywalters oh yeah, that ;)
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@AmirAmazig @aaronpk Anyway, I'm joining http://indiewebcamp.com/ asap, I'll forward to @indiewebcamp when I've explained why, happy @IndieWebCampUK! (twitter.com/_/status/397131066336477184)
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@aaronpk @AmirAmazig Cool, and welcome! Your tweet popped up in our IRC channel from the ownyourdata hashtag! (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/11/03/3/) (twitter.com/_/status/397131310176538624)
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tantek aaronpk, barnabywalters - I believe we previously solved this problem: http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieArchive
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aaronpk no I think barnabywalters is talking about screen recordings he made?
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barnabywalters tantek: that certainly covers the things with URLs — I’ll just dump the screenshots/casts on an index page with links to the other things
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tantek oh I thought you said you "downloaded the YQL blog, for history"
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tantek that seems exactly what IndieArchive is for
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bret Jeena, i started a pump.io section in the eitherpad for today and tomorrow
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barnabywalters as far as URLs go, how does waterpigs.co.uk/archive/DDD/SSS/domain.com/path/file.hmtl look?
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barnabywalters *html
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Jeena bret, will be happy to read it
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tantek aaronpk, amiramazig - it's the news site's fault - they broke their permalinks (maybe in a CMS update) old (broken) link (from jmp) http://www.thedrum.com/news/2011/05/24/21804-sir-tim-berners-lee-claims-twitter-is-for-extreme-opinions and new link (found by googling the slug) http://www.thedrum.com/news/2011/05/24/sir-tim-berners-lee-claims-twitter-ldquoextremerdquo-opinions
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tantek note the new link has (errantly?) included the HTML entity names for the ldquo and rduqo in the slug. I say errantly because I think it hurts the slug readability and indexability.
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barnabywalters what’s the indiearchive take on rewriting links to still be navigable in-archive?
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barnabywalters is archive accuracy or navigation higher priority?
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tantek aaronpk: https://developers.google.com/google-apps/calendar/caldav/v2/guide#connecting_to_googles_caldav_server
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aaronpk barnabywalters: good question
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barnabywalters e.g. http://waterpigs.co.uk/archive/4Sh/F01/pipes.yqlblog.net/ is fairly easy to navigate in-archive
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barnabywalters but http://waterpigs.co.uk/archive/4Sh/F01/pipes.yahoo.com/ is much worse
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barnabywalters also, there’s the issue of ?s in URLs
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barnabywalters e.g. /pipes/docs?date
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barnabywalters apache only loads the correct file if the ? is URL encoded
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bret barnabywalters: I'm having issues with this: http://indiewebify.me/validate-rel-me/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbret.io
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barnabywalters bret: looking
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barnabywalters ah, yes — indiewebify.me is not running the latest version, try http://indiewebify.waterpigs.co.uk/validate-rel-me/?url=bret.io
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barnabywalters need to get bnvk to update
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barnabywalters !tell bnvk can you update indiewebify.me to the latest revision? I made a bunch of fixes, should all work in PHP 5.3, might need a composer update
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bret barnabywalters: ty
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barnabywalters np
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tantek.com edited /2013/Hollywood (+64) "add sessions section" (view diff)
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bret barnabywalters: so if an h-entry lacks an author, your search algorithm will follow rel=author?
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barnabywalters bret: not the implementation in mf-cleaner, that’s purely functional and doesn’t make any HTTP requests
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barnabywalters it’s actually pretty broken, it needs splitting up into functions and putting in a separate authorship package
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bret hrmm ok
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barnabywalters did you need to use it for something?
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bret I'm working on PR for pump.io
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bret to add microformats
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barnabywalters pump.io is node, no?
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bret but his HTML structure mixes profile with h-entry a little to much to fit a full h-card in without re-arranging things a bit
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bret barnabywalters: ye
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bret s
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barnabywalters bret: oh that’s a pity — all the info is there, it’s a shame to have to make another request :/
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barnabywalters but just use rel-author, the implementations with catch up with the spec/what is actually implemented
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bret still have not decided yet what to do
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XgF bret: Have you lent any thought to webmention interop or similar? For a while I've thought about implementing a webmention endpoint, but I barely have enough time to keep my client up to date...
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bret yeah I would love to work on that eventually
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bret for now I am just working on getting the templates marked up correctly
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bret XgF Re your question ^^
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aaronpk !tell tantek https://github.com/owncloud/calendar/issues/192
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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bret barnabywalters: served from pump: http://indiewebify.waterpigs.co.uk/validate-h-card/?url=http%3A%2F%2F98.246.152.102%3A8080%2Fbret what do you think?
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bret im going shopping now brb later
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Loqi tantek: aaronpk left you a message 4 minutes ago: https://github.com/owncloud/calendar/issues/192
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barnabywalters bret: looks good to me!
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bret im going to try and finish this up tonight, but barnabywalters aaronpk and benwerd better help tempt evan into doing more indieweb stuff by using some pump.io posts as reply contexts :)
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aaronpk good idea
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aaronpk uh, does pump.io have JS that overrides command-click on links to open in a new window?
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aaronpk super anoying
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tantek.com created /Instapaper (+297) "stub with an export issue" (view diff)
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XgF aaronpk: Where are you experiencing that?
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aaronpk https://e14n.com/evan
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aaronpk I don't know why it changes my cursor to a ? when I hover over the date
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Loqi bnvk: barnabywalters left you a message 33 minutes ago: can you update indiewebify.me to the latest revision? I made a bunch of fixes, should all work in PHP 5.3, might need a composer update
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aaronpk and then command-click should open it in a new tab but doesn't
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barnabywalters aaronpk: yeah, looks like it
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XgF aaronpk: Thats weird
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XgF works for me (Latest Firefox
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XgF Windows)
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aaronpk i'm on chrome
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barnabywalters cmd+clicks not opening new tabs in FF nightly, os x
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XgF aaronpk: Weird, middle click works
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XgF ctrl+click doesn't
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tantek.com edited /Instapaper (+216) "note export feature request" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Instapaper (+264) "add second feature request" (view diff)