#indiewebcamp 2013-12-02

2013-12-02 UTC
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tantek even the bit on "follow" shows not a person, but Whole Foods as an example http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2010/03/16/the-social-agent-part-3-follow/
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barnabywalters hm, interesting, I remember there being a bunch of faces in there somewhere
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Loqi [@maquinacriadora] indiewebcamp principles http://indiewebcamp.com/principles PS: good stuff
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Loqi POSSE is interesting
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Loqi "humans first/machine second" doesnt seem pratical (http://twtr.io/fQxYExEymQ)
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barnabywalters oh yeah, what’s up with wired republishing the principles wiki page in plaintext? seems a bit weird
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KartikPrabhu updated icon with "face"! on to fixing all the rel="me" things
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tantek barnabywalters wait what? when did that happen?
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tantek URL?
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barnabywalters http://www.wired.com/beyond_the_beyond/2013/12/indieweb-principles/
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barnabywalters was tweeted earlier, showed up in logs
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tantek whoa - by Bruce Sterling no less!
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bear.im edited /webmention (+204) "/* Sending */" (view diff)
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barnabywalters as in this guy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Sterling
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tantek yes
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barnabywalters cool
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tantek that's actually reads pretty well as plain text
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tantek a little messy at the end with the "Discussion" between sandeep and me but maybe that just gives it that "indie" edginess ;)
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barnabywalters indeed — the discussion at the bottom is a bit out of place but otherwise it holds up well
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tantek also shows that the principles aren't static and have been evolving
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barnabywalters and puts some names in, which is nice
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tantek this just made my day barnabywalters
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barnabywalters tantek: :) you’re a fan of his writing? is it worth checking out?
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tantek yes
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tantek he's a very well known futurist and science fiction writer
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tantek he typically gives a closing keynote at SXSW Interactive every year
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barnabywalters goodnight all
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Loqi don't let the bed bugs bite
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@t at parents', watching Spike #ThankstoStarWars marathon, noticed @bruces posted #indieweb principles on @wired: http://tantek.com/2013/335/t1/thankstostarwars-noticed-indieweb-principles-wired (twitter.com/_/status/407308095724220417)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: updated the rel-me/author problem. Thanks for the advice
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bret !tell tantek its b for bret! You are totally right, been putting that off for ages
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Loqi bret: tantek left you a message on 11/30 at 11:22pm: hey you should fix your home page icon so it has your personal avatar (like on your Twitter) not just a generic "B" icon, per: http://indiewebcamp.com/icon
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@kevinmarks RT @t: at parents', watching Spike #ThankstoStarWars marathon, noticed @bruces posted #indieweb principles on @wired: http://tantek.com/2013/335/t1/thankstostarwars-noticed-indieweb-principles-wired (twitter.com/_/status/407310271359627266)
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bear.im edited /webmention (+141) "/* IndieWeb implementations */" (view diff)
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Loqi tantek: bret left you a message 14 minutes ago: its b for bret! You are totally right, been putting that off for ages
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bret bear, totally interested in seeing how you end up doing webmentions on a static sites, way cool
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bear bret - yea, i'm chewing on those ideas/decisions now
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tantek bret, bear - agreed. figuring out webmentions on static sites helps everyone out who is working on that path.
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tantek well this is one way to break the social media dopamine addiction: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/guy-hired-someone-slap-him-015800416.html
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KartikPrabhu is there an app for that?
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KartikPrabhu ;)
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tantek haha
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tantek the blog post is even better: http://hackthesystem.com/blog/why-i-hired-a-girl-on-craigslist-to-slap-me-in-the-face-and-why-it-quadrupled-my-productivity/
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bret tantek: do you publish your raw post files somewhere?
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bret or some examples of them
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tantek bret - do you mean Falcon storage files?
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bret yeah
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bret The ones you edit when making posts
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tantek yeah that's them
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tantek thought I put hints in the documentation...
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tantek :) http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#Storage_format
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rknLA has anyone messed with ssl/tls certs on their own servers? i ran into some unfortunate hmac issues with aaronpk's geologger and wound up generating certs and setting up nginx to serve https, turned out to be not that difficult.
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rknLA (it was eerily easy, actually, so i'm hoping i didn't screw it up...)
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bret tantek: isnt falcon processing the different bim files based on the url? is there a way to peek at just the raw bim storage file?
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tantek yes - the URL format to find the raw bim storage files is described exactly at that link ^^^
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bret ah i see
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tantek bret, so if you peek in my current storage file, you'll see an unpublished event post that I'm working on
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tantek my code / storage format affords the flexibility of experimenting with future posts and not have anything present effected.
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 5 days, 6 hours ago: ironic that that opendagenda article is on wired rather than on the author's own blog.
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Loqi benwerd: KevinMarks left you a message 4 days, 4 hours ago: great article
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 3 days, 3 hours ago: barnabywalters noticed you're using Leaflet for displaying a map rectangle (e.g. on checkins http://werd.io/2013/checked-into-ucsf-medical-center-4 or geo posts http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/903/ ) any reason for Leaflet over say Modestmaps? http://maps.stamen.com/#terrain/12/37.7706/-122.3782
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tantek (LOL holy delayed messages!)
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message on 11/30 at 11:20pm: hey you should fix your home page icon so it has your personal avatar not just a generic idno icon, per: http://indiewebcamp.com/icon
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tantek there we go
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benwerd might have had a project deadline on November 30th
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benwerd have been absent all week ;) just pickin' up messages
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benwerd ahh
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benwerd yes, known issue
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benwerd I will do exactly that.
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tantek cool. we can talk location map stuff later.
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benwerd (It's because Leaflet handles multiple layers and a number of other features that I thought might be fun to play with later.)
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benwerd OK. I'm going to take myself out for a Sunday evening run - I hope everyone had a beautiful Thanksgiving. I'll be back on the channel this week.
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KartikPrabhu webmention question: if a post is edited to remove a link to another, should a webmention be sent to the link to inform them of the removal of the mention?
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tantek KartikPrabhu - hey that makes sense
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tantek seems like the polite thing to do
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tantek could you add that to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#FAQ ?
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KartikPrabhu yes. I already have that in my code for receiving mentions. I was wondering how to do it for sending
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KartikPrabhu will add
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tantek It's an interesting edge case for sure
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kartikprabhu.com edited /webmention (+152) "/* Which links should receive webmentions */" (view diff)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /webmention (-151) "/* Which links should receive webmentions */" (view diff)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /webmention (+292) "/* FAQ */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: added new subsection
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tantek nice
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tantek interesting, looks like Tumblr "does the right thing" for shortcut icons
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KartikPrabhu example url?
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tantek so if you have a Tumblr (e.g. with domain mapping) and set your avatar to be your face on Tumblr, then it works to add that as an icon to iOS homescreen
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tantek e.g. http://hannahdonovan.com
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tantek bear - could you check to see if you're able to easily add a shortcut icon from hannahdonovan.com to your Android home screen?
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tantek It doesn't seem to have the meta web-app thingie - so I'm curious if it still works
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tantek (or not)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: works on adroid
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tantek really
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tantek fascinating
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KartikPrabhu yup!
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tantek so it doesn't just add it as a bookmark?
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tantek it adds it to the homescreen?
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KartikPrabhu wait! maybe i have this wrong... the only way i could do it was as a bookmark in chrome and add the bookmark to homescreen
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tantek ah - that's the difference then
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KartikPrabhu don't tell me all my testing was wrong! oh no!!
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tantek KartikPrabhu - if you try it with my site, tantek.com, it should be added directly to the homescreen, being able to bypass the "bookmark" step.
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KartikPrabhu so I should try to bookmark ('star') it in Chrome and it will go straight to homescreen?
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tantek I think? I don't know the exact steps that bear took to make it work: http://indiewebcamp.com/icon#Android_home_screen
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KartikPrabhu yeah. i can't figure out a way on my android phone, wothout bookmarking it in Chrome first. Would be good to have steps to check on more devices (?)
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tantek bear - what exact steps did you take to make this happen? http://indiewebcamp.com/icon#Android_home_screen
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tantek [10:17pm]
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neuro` Good morning indie Web campers.
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tantek good morning neuro`
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tantek.com edited /icon (+462) "add silo support section with Tumblr subsection, noting their good default icon support" (view diff)
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tantek have you seen this? http://indiewebcamp.com/icon
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KartikPrabhu tantek: it seems that the 'add to homescreen' is in Chrome beta still. https://developers.google.com/chrome/mobile/docs/installtohomescreen
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tantek !tell skinny consider adding a short icon per http://indiewebcamp.com/icon to http://skinnywhitegirl.com for others to easily add a shortcut of your home page to their homescreen and have it be represented by an icon of you!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu has anyone checked other browsers for 'add to homescreen' support?
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tantek KartikPrabhu - do you have Firefox for Android?
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KartikPrabhu hmm not really. maybe i should use it for testing
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tantek at least!
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KartikPrabhu come on you are just pushing Mozilla stuff now ;)
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tantek hey, 4.5 stars can't be all wrong! ;)
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tantek and if it doesn't measure up we'll publicly document it and file some bugs
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KartikPrabhu haha yes. i think is should have browsers on phone just like my laptop
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bear tantek - you have to save the bookmark first
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bear !tell tantek you have to first save the bookmark, then press-and-hold on the bookmark and select save to homescreen
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek bear - then in that case what good is that silly meta tag?
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Loqi tantek: bear left you a message 25 seconds ago: you have to first save the bookmark, then press-and-hold on the bookmark and select save to homescreen
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KartikPrabhu tantek: Firefox for mobile does not show your icon on the homescreen :(
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bear I have no idea - I thought the same thing
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Loqi skinny: tantek left you a message 11 minutes ago: consider adding a short icon per http://indiewebcamp.com/icon to http://skinnywhitegirl.com for others to easily add a shortcut of your home page to their homescreen and have it be represented by an icon of you!
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tantek bear - maybe it's only in the Chrome 31 beta?
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bear yes it is
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tantek do you have it?
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bear it did not work with FF
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bear yes
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tantek is that what you tested with?
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bear yes, chrome beta for android on my nexus 7
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KartikPrabhu I tried FF and it did not show icon either only a generic icon with star
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tantek KartikPrabhu - what did you try doing? bookmarking? or saving to homescreen? what steps did you take in FF/Android?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: attempt to bookmark on FF // FF gives an option to add usual bookmark or add to homescreen // then choose add to homescreen
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bear on my nexus 7 with firefox, bookmark + options + add to home screen shows my icon
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KartikPrabhu strange!
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tantek bear - FF/Android release? or beta?
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bear FF 25.0.1
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tantek KartikPrabhu which Android device / OS v are you using
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tantek 25 is release. huh
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KartikPrabhu tantek: worked the second time. magic (?)
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tantek KartikPrabhu with which site?
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KartikPrabhu yours
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tantek hmm
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KartikPrabhu Android 4.3 //HTC ONE
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bear ah, that may have been a cache issue
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KartikPrabhu new FF install, cache would be empty. unless it pulls icon only if it exists in cache
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tantek KartikPrabhu - if you had gone to my site before yesterday on my device you have have had a cached non-custom-icon
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I just installed FF and added to homescreen twice in a span of 10 min
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tantek that is odd then
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bear just did the same with FF 26 on my HTC One with 4.3
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bear it shows a better icon with FF26 than with 25
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tantek.com edited /icon (+517) "/* Android home screen */ more Chrome details, add Firefox for Android subsection" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu no add to homescreen functionality in Opera Mini
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bear.im edited /icon (+58) "/* Firefox for Android */" (view diff)
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bear ^^^ gave actual text and prompts for the process
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skinny tantek: redesigning, moving hosts and registrars right now. will be building as a jekyll site, so everythign is in flux right now.
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tantek oh wow ok, go forth! :)
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skinny tantek: yah! it's a mess right now. :D Good news is personandplace.com is mostly together
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I'm using the same markup as you for the icon thingy. Should I add my site to the wiki under yours?
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tantek skinny, ping bret, aaronpk, and dietrich about the next Homebrew Website Club meeting in PDX
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tantek KartkiPrabhu - do it!
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tantek (assuming you've got an icon of a face and not just a site logo :P )
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tantek humans > brands
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skinny tantek: when is next homebrew mtg?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: it is the face photo we discussed earlier. does that qualify?
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tantek skinny wednesday
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tantek KartikPrabhu - yes that's certainly face like ;)
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KartikPrabhu boom! on it then
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tantek.com edited /icon (+32) "/* Tumblr */ add Diana also" (view diff)
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snarfed rknLA: +1 to server certs not being too hard, especially if you have your own full server/VM
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snarfed i did the same thing for my personal site and a handful of other sites just this weekend
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snarfed worked fine for everything on app engine. my personal site is harder since it's apache on shared host, and they don't allow mod_ssl directives in .htaccess
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snarfed but we're getting there
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kartikprabhu.com edited /icon (+475) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu - why the extra space inside the quote here: rel=" shortcut icon"
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KartikPrabhu interesting, somthing in my template system is doing that. Will it cause trouble?
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tantek good question - not if their parsers parse rel properly
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KartikPrabhu that's what i thought. but yes maybe it is better to err on the side of parsers being not proper.
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rknLA snarfed: yep, i've got a vm on digital ocean. tbh, the hardest part was navigating the interaction between nginx and node, since ssl termination happens at the nginx layer.
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bear rknLA - are you terminating ssl at nginx and just using http for your node proxy?
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snarfed huh. odd that that matters. i don't know much about node though, so i believe you
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rknLA bear: yeah,
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bear let me know if you have any questions, that config is what I do at my day job
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rknLA well, so, if i proxy_pass to http://, then it terminates at node, but if i proxy_pass https://, it works fine, but seems like overkill,
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bear what framework are you using?
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rknLA i guess it'd make sense if nginx proxied to other physical boxes, but for what i'm doing now, it doesn't seem worth it
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rknLA bear: hapi
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rknLA the exciting thing is, now that i've got self-signed certs and ssl pinning working with this geo logger, i feel way more comfortable hosting my own server for my personal transaction logger :)
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rknLA (and moving it off dropbox :\ )
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bear hmm, hapi should be ok if you set the server info.protocol to http
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rknLA bear: yeah, it was. it was just a matter of making things consistent. my first attempt was entirely in hapi, and then i realized that nginx is only listening on port 80,
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bear ah
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rknLA then when i went to configure nginx (and also learn how to configure nginx), i set it up to do ssl termination there.
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bear the fun comes when some of the frameworks assume https because of their own middleware
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bear but I think hapi avoids that
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rknLA ahhh yeah, that sounds annoying. hapi seems to handle that pretty well so far.
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bear nods
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rknLA my main issue now is skepticism. i kinda wanna try mitm-ing myself to make sure it's actually secure.
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rknLA it "just worked" so easily that i have a hard time believing that it's really there.
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bear :)
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bear if you do try that, head over to #nodesecurity where our SecTeam can help on either side
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rknLA bear: where do you work?
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bear &yet
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bear I'm the Ops person for &yet and ^Lift Security
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rknLA oh cool. what exactly does &yet do? i only know about it from the realtimeconf videos i saw earlier on eran hammer's blog
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rknLA nice
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bear consulting, training, security, ops
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bear brains for hire
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rknLA cool. you're in pdx?
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tantek bear - very cool that you're at &yet, and very cool that they have you :)
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bear most of the team is in Richland, WA - i'm near Philadelphia, PA :)
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bear yea, i'm very happy to be working with them - it's a very open source place
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rknLA oh nice. yeah, that sounds fun
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rknLA i wish i could do more open source stuff at work,
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bear that is what evenings and weekends are for ;)
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rknLA but i have the joy (deathwish?) of working with music, so... tradeoffs
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rknLA yar
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rknLA ok, i'm off to bed. goodnight
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Loqi sweet dreams
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@_jden @TechWraith my view is summarized at http://indiewebcamp.com/why (twitter.com/_/status/407417315257372672)
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tantek.com edited /icon (+1346) "reorganize a bit, markup / how-to first, then examples, FAQ, and separate instructions for using mobile browsers, and silo support" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /icon (-12) "/* Firefox OS home screen */" (view diff)
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Jihaisse Hello
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tantek.com edited /icon (+20) "/* Should you use a photo of your face */ OTOH" (view diff)
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tantek hello
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kevinmarks.com uploaded /File:homepageiconskm.jpg "What it looks like when you as website icons to the home page on android from chrome and Firefox"
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kevinmarks.com edited /icon (+186) "/* Firefox for Android */" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com edited /icon (+57) "/* Firefox OS */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /icon (+9) "/* Firefox for Android */ put descriptive caption below image" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com edited /icon (+129) "/* Firefox OS */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /icon (+92) "/* See Also */ see also indiewebcamp log home screen short cut" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com edited /icon (+528) "/* Tantek */ - add Kevin" (view diff)
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tantek welcome adactio
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tantek do you remember when you added an apple touch icon to your home page?
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tantek adactio, you're now the earliest known example here: http://indiewebcamp.com/icon#Jeremy_Keith
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adactio Hmm... I don't recall.
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kevinmarks.com edited /icon (+0) "/* Kevin Marks */ fix date" (view diff)
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adactio It might have been around the same time I was making Huffduffer (and screwing around with "apple touch icon" stuff there) which would have been 2008.
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tantek.com edited /icon (-5) "/* Jeremy Keith */ 2008" (view diff)
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adactio It was pre-iPad, I believe, because whenever it was, there was only size of icon.
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tantek once again, we can use one size of icon and let the client resize it (if you're using a JPG, which you should be if you're using a face photo, which an indieweb site should be)
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tantek.com edited /icon (+25) "/* Tumblr */ Thor" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com uploaded /File:kmfirefoxosdesktop.png "What it looks like when you add a website icon to the home page on FirefoxOS"
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kevinmarks.com edited /icon (+53) "/* Firefox OS */ add screenshot" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ difference in res between Nexus 7 and firefox orange phone is very noticable
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tantek.com edited /icon (+28) "/* Tumblr */ Simon Willison is now on Tumblr" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ getting domains out of godaddy is really fiddly
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KevinMarks_ talk about deliberately suer-hostile design
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tantek.com edited /icon (+0) "sort" (view diff)
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@t Got a personal site? Make sure it has an icon people can add to their home screen. How to & why http://indiewebcamp.com/icon (ttk.me t4TM1) (twitter.com/_/status/407480720412930048)
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KevinMarks_ can someone add one to the indiewebcamp site too?
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tantek.com edited /icon (-10) "no longer a stub" (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks - http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/#Suggestions
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@kevinmarks RT @t: Got a personal site? Make sure it has an icon people can add to their home screen. How to & why http://indiewebcamp.com/icon (ttk.me t4TM1) (twitter.com/_/status/407481138785951746)
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tantek might be too early for west coasters but hopefully some EU/UK/EST folks will pick it up
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KevinMarks and my mac crashed while trying to do that
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tantek github?
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KevinMarks browser tab overload maybe
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I've been live tweeting with my indieweb tool www.noterlive,com (twitter.com/_/status/407482807792201728)
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@KaraGould85 RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: I've been live tweeting with my indieweb tool www.noterlive,com (twitter.com/_/status/407483141591695360)
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tantek Kevinmarks - tab reload auto-tweet? (with same typo from before!)
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KevinMarks yep
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KevinMarks mac reboot -> tab reload -> noterlive sends tweet again
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KevinMarks twitters idempotency for that has a time limit
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KevinMarks thinking that KaraGould is a spambot
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KevinMarks it's the sketchy way I use an iframe to talk to the server that does it.
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@gericci RT @t: Got a personal site? Make sure it has an icon people can add to their home screen. How to & why http://indiewebcamp.com/icon (ttk.me t4TM1) (twitter.com/_/status/407488745525755904)
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@domenicoperri #USERMEDIA domenicoperri starred converspace/webmention https://github.com/converspace/webmention?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter #S42AT #invispide (twitter.com/_/status/407490705259388928)
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@_superYoonhak_ RT @t: Got a personal site? Make sure it has an icon people can add to their home screen. How to & why http://indiewebcamp.com/icon (ttk.me t4TM1) (twitter.com/_/status/407496314797051905)
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tantek.com edited /icon (+663) "use apple-touch-icon-precomposed instead of apple-touch-icon" (view diff)
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tantek !tell aaronpk, caseorganic you may want to update your icons to use apple-touch-icon-precomposed to avoid the ugly white drop shadow over your faces in iOS6 and below.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /icon (+56) "note apple-touch-icon-precomposed" (view diff)
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tantek adactio, you as well, may wish to consider apple-touch-icon-precomposed instead of apple-touch-icon-
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tantek on adactio.com
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adactio tantek: yeah, I ended up doing that on huffduffer. Although, now, with iOS7 I guess that's less of an issue.
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tantek plenty of non iOS7 devices out there
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tantek seems like with apple-touch-icon-precomposed you get the "no hassle" support across all of them
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tantek glennjones, as a designer, you may want to consider adding an icon of yourself (like you already have on your home page!) to glennjones.net per http://indiewebcamp.com/icon
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glennjones Yes icon not a bad idea, will add it to next update
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KartikPrabhu morning! quite lot of progress on the icons issue!
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@spartanized RT @t: Got a personal site? Make sure it has an icon people can add to their home screen. How to & why http://indiewebcamp.com/icon (ttk.me t4TM1) (twitter.com/_/status/407514926010212354)
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@joshuajuran RT @t: Got a personal site? Make sure it has an icon people can add to their home screen. How to & why http://indiewebcamp.com/icon (ttk.me t4TM1) (twitter.com/_/status/407522834161102848)
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@bertom RT @t: Got a personal site? Make sure it has an icon people can add to their home screen. How to & why http://indiewebcamp.com/icon (ttk.me t4TM1) (twitter.com/_/status/407543637640507394)
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@bertom RT @t: Got a personal site? Make sure it has an icon people can add to their home screen. How to & why http://indiewebcamp.com/icon (ttk.me t4TM1) (twitter.com/_/status/407543907258753024)
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dietrich tantek: aaronpk bret where's the info for the pdx meetup?
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aaronpk dietrich: we don't have any yet :) let's figure it out!
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 5 minutes ago: caseorganic you may want to update your icons to use apple-touch-icon-precomposed to avoid the ugly white drop shadow over your faces in iOS6 and below.
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aaronpk tantek: good idea
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aaronpk I'm gonna switch to the JPG method too since it's a photo and not line art
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aaronpk dietrich: looks like the next SF meeting is on Wednesday http://tantek.com/2013/332/b1/homebrew-website-club-newsletter
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@dietrich RT @t: Got a personal site? Make sure it has an icon people can add to their home screen. How to & why http://indiewebcamp.com/icon (ttk.me t4TM1) (twitter.com/_/status/407548307158736896)
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aaronpk wednesday works great for me, I'm actually going to be out of town the next wednesday, so it'd be great to do one this week
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dietrich weds works for me too. moz office has an event though, so the space isn't available :/
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dietrich any other spots?
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aaronpk ooh darn. well we could use esripdx if it's around 14 people or so
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aaronpk we'd all fit in the conference room up front which is nice for that sort of thing
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aaronpk also there was talk of a syncronous SF<->PDX meetup, tantek do you think it'd be worth linking the two sites with talky.io and having a joint meetup?
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bear.im edited /nginx (+195) "tweaks to SSL configuration and link to excellent how-to guide" (view diff)
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aaronpk bear: if I remove sslv3 from my apache config do you think that will stop the vhost cert error tantek saw?
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bear probably not
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aaronpk oh
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bear most likely that is from the secondary certs that you may have or have not included in your ssl cert file
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aaronpk secondary certs?
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bear a cert is signed by the certs of the CA that issued it
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bear so you need to include in some software that does https all of them as well as your domain's cert
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aaronpk oh but you were here for that discussion right?
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bear but i'm also answering without knowing the details of the error :/
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bear what date/time? i'll go read the log
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-11-30#t1385869849
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aaronpk for whatever reason, the browser wasn't able to negotiate the SSL connection that allows SNI
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bear oh right
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bear what version of nginx were you using?
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bear and this bug says yes, it is because of a lack of SSLv3 - http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-11-30#t1385869849
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aaronpk apache on this one actually, 2.2.15
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rtaibah Been lurking for a while. I want to contribute. What are some of the Python projects you guys been working on?
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tommorris rtaibah: I'm not sure there are many pythonistas working on stuff. I've been hacking on a microformats2 parser for Python, but my personal site is done in Rails
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tommorris we're sort of language agnostic, so if you wanna hack on python, that's awesome
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rtaibah tommorris, I have nothing in mind to build from scratch. Thought there are some ongoing projects I can jump on
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bear I am using python for my site - generation is done with python and I'm also working on a indieweb tool set in python
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rtaibah bear what is that toolset?
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bear https://github.com/bear/ronkyuu
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bear it does webmentions right now
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bear adding an event handler so I can trigger static site updates
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bear rtaibah - it's a very new project, thoughts/ideas/suggestions more than welcome
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tantek aaronpk - yes, simultaneous meetings would be great
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tantek and I think we can setup a second laptop with talky.io
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tantek.com created /ronkyuu (+295) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /webmention (-35) "/* Sending */ link to wiki page" (view diff)
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bear blushes
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aaronpk tantek: cool, let's do it. Do you have a canonical event URL for the meetup or series yet?
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tantek aaronpk - no, sorry about that, that was supposed to get built this weekend and then I got distracted with personal site icons
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tantek which would be an excellent *subject* for the next meeting
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tantek I can create a page on the indiewebcamp wiki as a stop gap
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tantek the only announcement right now is in the Newsletter from the first one
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tantek (btw canonical event URL might still get built today/tomorrow)
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aaronpk on your site?
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bear.im edited /ronkyuu (+296) (view diff)
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tantek yes
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tantek it's one of the reasons I've been asking all the geo/location/map questions
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aaronpk aha
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aaronpk well I'll post an event on calagator (a tech event in portland isn't real unless it's posted there)
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tantek aaronpk - there was a request from KevinMarks in IRC yesterday to add an icon for the indiewebcamp.com home page
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tantek ok
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aaronpk oh yes!
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aaronpk i added an icon to the irc log page, I'll use that
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tantek aaronpk - makes sense
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tantek btw are you able to edit a post on calagator?
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tantek if not, gimme a sec to create the indiewebcamp event URL
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aaronpk yeah it's all editable
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aaronpk anybody can edit
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aaronpk it's basically a wiki that doesn't require logins
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tantek.com edited /Events (+1597) "add Homebrew Website Club meetings" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club (+1427) "draft" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club
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tantek minimal but it will do
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tantek ooh - we've never had event pages for simultaneous multi-site events!
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aaronpk hah! two locations I guess?
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tantek I trust you to figure out listing multiple locations on the wiki and splitting up RSVPs into subsections by location!
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bret dietrich: been to busy to put it together
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tantek (should still be one page I think)
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aaronpk bret: we'll host at esripdx
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tantek aaronpk - yeah that should be fine
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tantek with this short notice I doubt you'll overflow
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bret aaronpk: way cool. Do you need any help with anything?
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tantek and heck, just put a capacity note at the top of the RVSPs section for PDX ;)
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aaronpk bret: will need help with the door when people arrive, but that's about it
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aaronpk there's no food expected right? just need space?
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bret ok, I can show up early
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bret did you put it on Calegator yet?
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aaronpk not yet, feel free to do that and update the indiewebcamp wiki if you'd like! I have to run for a bit
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bret Calagator*
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bret ok I will
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bret aaronpk, tantek I'll just mirror the SF time for PDX, and Note its location at Esri PDX
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bret tantek: should I make a 2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club-pdx page? Or just fit the info in on 2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club?
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tantek bret ^^^ use one page
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bret ok
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tantek no food, just sapce
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tantek space
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tantek idea is to break for food after into smaller groups
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tantek I have the Moz space from 18:00 so will also be encouraging early arrivals
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tantek to chat & hack
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bret ack, still confused. One page for PDX, or One page for both PDX and SF?
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bret sorry :(
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aaronpk same page, two locations
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bret okj
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bret aaronpk: what time do you want it to run to?
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aaronpk tantek: how long was the last one? should we set an end time?
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tantek bret np: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-12-02#t1386008970 ;)
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tantek aaronpk - oh yeah - good call
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tantek 19:30
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tantek it might overflow til 20:00 if people are excited
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tantek but that's when I kicked people out
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tantek most left before then to go get food
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tantek during the "peer-to-peer" section
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tantek (per the newsletter0
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tantek )
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bret tantek, aaronpk: look good? http://calagator.org/events/1250465273
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club PDX on Wednesday, Dec 4, 6:30pm at Esri R&D Center (aka Geoloqi HQ)
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tantek.com edited /events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club (+106) "end time, locations" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club (-1) "/* Where */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club (-2) "/* Where */ dt markup" (view diff)
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werd.io edited /events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club (+82) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club (+32) "split rsvps by city" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club (+82) "add calagator URL" (view diff)
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tantek bret - cool. could you expand the Portland location here: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club#Where ?
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bret working on it
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bret.io edited /events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club (+294) "Expanded Portland Address" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club (+79) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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tantek bret - awesome
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tantek hopes aaronpk also RSVPs for the meeting in PDX ;)
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bret The wiki needs to start accepting indie rsvps :)
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tantek bret - or we all need to support indieweb event posts and rsvps :P
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bret that too
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tantek and just have events.indiewebcamp.com be an event aggregator
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aaronpk oh yeah we've talked about that before
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tantek yes we have
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tantek not sure we captured it anywhere thought
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tantek *though
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aaronpk I could repurpose news.indiewebcamp.com, still not sure whether it makes sense to launch it as a separate thing or have them both at the same place
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bret wants Calagator to start accepting rsvps
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aaronpk that could be arranged :)
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tantek I've also added it to the Moz all hands meeting for this morning: https://wiki.mozilla.org/WeeklyUpdates/2013-12-02#Upcoming_Events
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tantek if you want you can watch the meeting live at air.mozilla.org
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bret events.portland.or
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tantek it starts at 11:00 PST!
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tantek (in a minute or so)
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club (+90) "add myself, sort" (view diff)
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tantek anyone else checking out https://air.mozilla.org/ ? the video is up now (you have to click through to Monday meeting)
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bret I would if I was at home
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tantek you can also lurk on IRC on irc://irc.mozilla.org:6697/airmozilla
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bret mozilla has the coolest video equipment
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bret ok brb for a bit
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snarfed tantek, aaronpk: HWC might be a good inspiration for us all to figure out recurring events (and recurring rsvps?) in mf2
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aaronpk I think recurring events are only marginally useful
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aaronpk a great example is how calagator handles it
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aaronpk by explicitly not supporting recurring events :)
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snarfed.org edited /events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club (+84) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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aaronpk because it's too easy for recurring events to stop happening and people forget to mark them as ended on various sites
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aaronpk so instead, calagator allows you to "clone" an event to a different date
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aaronpk that way there's less stale data
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snarfed i can understand that perspective
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snarfed i definitely appreciate true recurring events and rsvps personally, but i get that it's not an unqualified win
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snarfed.org edited /User:Snarfed.org (-229) "finished converting silo data to MF2" (view diff)
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Loqi now adding webmentions to brid.gy
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snarfed.org edited /User:Snarfed.org (-3) "fix typo" (view diff)
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aaronpk snarfed: why not use indieauth for brid.gy?
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snarfed i'm actually dropping login altogether
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aaronpk oh! even better :)
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snarfed you'll have to auth via oauth to connect a silo account, so i don't want anything beyond that :P
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aaronpk makes sense
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tantek aaronpk - nailed it. (re: why no recurring events)
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tantek "too easy for recurring events to stop happening and people forget to mark them as ended on various sites" - perhaps a case of the future being less visible the further away it is
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tantek thus repeating events are a case of unintentional inclusion of invisible (or certainly less visible) data
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etymancer also of things being less visible the more you see them (as it were)
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tantek "Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future." (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080684/quotes?item=qt0358468)
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@khaos_farbauti @MademoiselleThi moralité : le cloud c'est le mal. #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/407592334474641408)
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@MademoiselleThi RT @khaos_farbauti: @MademoiselleThi moralité : le cloud c'est le mal. #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/407593205027569665)
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bret interesting presentation of timeline data http://cheeaun.github.io/life/
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@t next Homebrew Website Club mtg Wed 18:30 @MozSF & @EsriPDX! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club Previously: http://tantek.com/2013/332/b1/homebrew-website-club-newsletter (ttk.me t4TM3) (twitter.com/_/status/407596712937918464)
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tantek.com edited /events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club (+8) "mtg" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club (+60) "/* Where */ link venues" (view diff)
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@dietrich RT @t: next Homebrew Website Club mtg Wed 18:30 @MozSF & @EsriPDX! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club Previously: http://tantek.com/2013/332/b1/homebrew-website-club-newsletter (ttk.me t4TM3) (twitter.com/_/status/407597503320580096)
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+54) "/* Similar Resource */ note personal timeline resource" (view diff)
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tantek bret, aaronpk - thanks for making the PDX HWC meeting happen!
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tantek this should be a fun week
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tantek dietrich - hope you can make the PDX meeting!
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@Johannes_Ernst RT @t: next Homebrew Website Club mtg Wed 18:30 @MozSF & @EsriPDX! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club Previously: http://tantek.com/2013/332/b1/homebrew-website-club-newsletter (ttk.me t4TM3) (twitter.com/_/status/407599769201033216)
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@kevinmarks RT @t: next Homebrew Website Club mtg Wed 18:30 @MozSF & @EsriPDX! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club Previously: http://tantek.com/2013/332/b1/homebrew-website-club-newsletter (ttk.me t4TM3) (twitter.com/_/status/407599858954952705)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+169) "/* Upcoming */ note PDX location for HWC meeting, bit of fmt" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - jlsuttles has pointed out that the indiewebcamp site itself doesn't have an icon: https://twitter.com/jlsuttles/status/407549275111817217 ;)
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@jlsuttles @t lol that page doesn't have one
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upon2020.com edited /events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club (+87) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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dietrich tantek: definitely!
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tantek dietrich - add yourself! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club#RSVP :)
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dietrich hm, i closed my server and haven't set up the new one
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dietrich so can't log in to edit the wiki
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benwerd !tell tantek My smiling face now adorns werd.io's favicon. Was interesting implementing that for multi-user software - idno now has the concept of who "owns" a page to make that work.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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Loqi tantek: benwerd left you a message 17 minutes ago: My smiling face now adorns werd.io's favicon. Was interesting implementing that for multi-user software - idno now has the concept of who "owns" a page to make that work.
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tantek Benwerd nice! Now see the update about -precomposed on the /icon page.
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tantek Dietrich ah, sorry ti hear that. Perhaps another pdxer can add you ;)
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benwerd tantek: indeed, have switched over to use -procomposed
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tantek benwerd: 1 more nit. When I do add to home screen it prompts with label txt of werd.io and should prompt with perhaps Ben Werdmuller.
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tantek From title tag I think.
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benwerd tantek: try again
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aaronpk tantek: it should have an icon as of about an hour ago
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aaronpk (minus caching)
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tantek Works! Add yourself to the indieweb examples section :)
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werd.io edited /icon (+753) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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tantek benwerd: What do the meta name apple tags do? Perhaps link to docs explaining the benefit of those proprietary meta tags?
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tantek Interesting - when I launch from the shortcut I get a separate icon for you outside of Safari. However your site "app" only uses up the old iPhone gen4 screen height.
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tantek I like the idea of this, just wondering how to use the full screen real estate and not get the black bars at the top/bottom on my iPodtouch 5.
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aaronpk I rememeber that happening on one of my sites...
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tantek Maybe a meta viewport problem (or lack thereof?)
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aaronpk aha
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aaronpk https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/7759137
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tantek aaronpk: User-scale no is evil
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aaronpk can probably remove that with the same effect
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aaronpk user-scale=no is fine for things that are actually mobile apps
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tantek Consider if you post photos, you should be able to zoom.
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tantek It's bad for anything with images
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tantek Even "actual" mobile apps
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tantek Really annoying
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tantek Eg even the MFW guy removed (see comment thread on follow up)
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aaronpk user-scale is a separate issue from the black bar thing which is what i was trying to point out
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benwerd aaronpk, tantek: thanks for that - have implemented, but I also don't like the user-scale stuff, so I removed it
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benwerd shouldn't letterbox on your 5 now though
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benwerd hopefully
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tantek Ahem: "$image_copy = imagerotate($image_copy, 90, 0);"
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aaronpk er, your PHP is showing
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benwerd and that's why you don
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benwerd er
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benwerd and that's why you don't copy and paste without checking what you've pasted
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benwerd I'll stop live-coding now
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benwerd (thanks)
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tantek Looks good now. And please don't stop the live coding. :D
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aaronpk also known as cowboy coding
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bret yippie kay yay
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tantek_ benwerd, we have a URL for that: http://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood#testing_your_code_in_production
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tantek_ btw which <meta name="viewport"> does what ?
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benwerd this is generic, sets up device-width etc: <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0">
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benwerd this one overrides for the iPhone 5 specifically (with the screen resolution): <meta name="viewport" content="initial-scale=1.0" media="(device-height: 568px)" />
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tantek_ so I'm now convinced it's unnecessary
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tantek_ all I need to do was add *one* meta tag to get the "launch as separate full screen app" effect: <meta name="apple-mobile-web-app-capable" content="yes" />
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aaronpk cool!
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tantek_ look ma, no meta viewport: tantek.com
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aaronpk that said, do you really want to be launching your site as a full-screen app? cause it means I can't copy-paste URLs from the browser
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tantek_ and no <meta name="apple-mobile-web-app-status-bar-style" content="black"> either
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bret reading about dom templating in node http://blog.nodejitsu.com/micro-templates-are-dead
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tantek aaronpk - iOS Safari URL copy-paste is such an awkward UI
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tantek it's a good reason to include nicer URL copy-paste UI in your permalinks!
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tantek :)
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aaronpk hah!
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tantek I like the idea of a personal site having a self-contained UI that doesn't depend on browser chrome (but is perhaps progressively enhanced by it)
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aaronpk except I always know where to find the address bar in my mobile browser, but everyone's permalink will be in a different spot on their site
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tantek benwerd - I can't see any effect from <meta name="apple-mobile-web-app-status-bar-style" content="black"> on your site compared to mine now on my iPodtouch 5
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bret.io edited /template (+95) "/* HTML based template formats */" (view diff)
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tantek also I don't see any benefit of including the meta viewport tag
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tantek what am I missing?
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tantek prefers minimal markup. If a tag doesn't have a noticeable effect, leave it out.
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benwerd it's possible that black is already the default bar color on your device - not sure it is in iOS 7
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tantek odd - tapping links on either my or benwerd's site opens them up in Mobile Safari instead of staying "in app"
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tantek e.g. even permalinks to our posts
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tantek.com edited /icon (+679) "/* iOS home screen */ add iOS site as app subsection" (view diff)
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tantek aw hell: https://gist.github.com/kylebarrow/1042026 (JS needed to make iOS standalone web app links open in place instead of launching Safari)
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aaronpk wat!
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aaronpk there goes that plan
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tantek this feels yucky
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tantek even though I do like seeing people's names & faces in the task bar :)
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aaronpk lol!
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tantek it makes the UI feel friendlier, more human
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bret Doesn't opening sites in stand alone mode slow them down?
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tantek bret - nothing felt slower
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tantek aside: Dalton shared this post with me - re: distinguishing "broadcast" as a different kind of post type: http://blog.app.net/2013/11/21/announcing-app-net-broadcast/
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tantek bret - do you have any citations re: "slow them down?" or is it hearsay/rumors?
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tantek so … rough guess - local links should stay in the "app" but links to external sites should open up in the browser?
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aaronpk this sounds like the <a target="_new"> debates from 10 years ago
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aaronpk 15?
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aaronpk personally if I'm on a site, I want to be able to choose which links open in a new tab and which stay in the same window, regardless of the domain
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aaronpk I may want to queue up a few blog posts in other tabs for example
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tantek aaronpk - even on mobile?
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tantek (I mean I agree on desktop/laptop)
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aaronpk yes
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tantek (I totally get annoyed when sites stop me from command-clicking a link to open it in a new tab)
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tantek and I have to ctrl-click to context-menu choose "Open link in new tab"
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aaronpk especially because the cost of going back and forth in mobile browsers is often greater (longer page load times, or not possible if you lose network connectivity)
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tantek interesting, on mobile I'm usually single-threading any particular site viewing / reading experience
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tantek though maybe that's an adaptation to iOS Safari's horrible web caching? (or nearly complete lack thereof)?
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tantek aaronpk - what if you could touch-hold and get the pop-up buttons that gave you options like "Open in Safari" … "Copy" etc.?
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tantek I agree with adhering to user preferences BTW
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tantek which is why I'm treading lightly here
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aaronpk if touch-hold opened up the same context menu as normal that'd be fine
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aaronpk the options I have are "Open, Open in New Page, Add to Reading List, Copy"
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aaronpk and while I don't use reading list, I imagine some people do. and I do use "copy" frequently
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tantek it looks like Apple's perception of what's a "web app" assume lots of JS heavy lifting
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tantek as opposed to normal things in HTML "just working" as expected
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aaronpk that seems like an accurate description
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bret tantek: i remember reading about it. let me look into it quickly
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tantek aaronpk - based on that I don't think it's good advice to ask people to walk that path. too much complexity involved.
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tantek (the path of making your website a standalone web app on iOS)
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bret tantek: here is the issue: http://daringfireball.net/2011/03/nitro_ios_43 But I think maybe they fixed it by now
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aaronpk tantek: yeah I agree. I think home screen bookmark is probably good enough
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bret fixed in http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/06/ios-5-brings-nitro-speed-to-home-screen-web-apps/ iOS 5... derp im behind the times man
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tantek ok I'm going to move " iOS site as app " to "advanced" or something to give fair warning
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aaronpk I think the "site as app" thing is probably not a good idea, since apps are usually not very webby by definition
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bnvk Do any of the "Tent" people hangout here?
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bret I personally hate webapps that open their own instance of chromeless safari. Running on a slowed down iPhone 4 makes switching apps slow and anoying
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bret I like all the websites to open in safari
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bnvk I just watched this interview with one of the devs http://redecentralize.org/interviews/2013/11/26/09-daniel-tent.html
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bret bnvk: I liked the mailpile interview :)
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bnvk bret: thanks ;)
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tantek bnvk - we've gotten a few tent escapees
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bnvk tantek: ppl who left that community?
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tantek right
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bnvk interesting- what was their biggest complaint?
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bnvk how big is their community?
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bret speakig of large projects, Evan never pulled my MF2 PR
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tantek bnvk - documenting a bit here: http://indiewebcamp.com/Tent.io#Criticism
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tantek bret - please add a section about your MF2 PR (linking to it) to this: http://indiewebcamp.com/pump.io
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bnvk right, that seemed like the earlier criticisms- monoculture, etc
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bnvk dah, bbl
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tantek bnvk - but these criticisms are coming from those who were in the community
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tantek that's the difference
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tantek !tell bnvk but these criticisms are coming from those who were in the community, that's the difference, that's what's new.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bret.io edited /pump.io (+252) "Added note about indieweb compatibility efforts" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh tantek did you come to any decision on how you're going to handle maps?
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tantek aaronpk - one sec, wrapping up the iOS web app discussion...
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tantek.com edited /icon (+1196) "move iOS site as app to Advanced, list problem(s), and links for further reading/coding" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /icon (+0) "/* iOS site as app */ uc" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /icon (+7) "/* iOS site as app */ /cite" (view diff)
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tantek iOS site as app moved to a new "Advanced" section in case anyone is interested or curious: http://indiewebcamp.com/icon#Advanced along with the problems found and URLs for further reading.
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@snarfed_org RT @t: next Homebrew Website Club mtg Wed 18:30 @MozSF & @EsriPDX! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2013-12-04-homebrew-website-club Previously: http://tantek.com/2013/332/b1/homebrew-website-club-newsletter (ttk.me t4TM3) (twitter.com/_/status/407648242281623552)
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tantek aaronpk - re: maps in events, that URL I saved in my Falcon "working on" section is my current thinking (as a piece of the event post)
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#event_posts
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aaronpk ah cool
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tantek obviously I still need to build the other building blocks into a complete event post, make sure it "looks good" (is quickly understandable) on mobile
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tantek and then figure out how to present it when it's in a composite stream with other post types
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aaronpk what are you thinking wrt a mobile view?
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tantek improving upon mobile FB event permalink view
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tantek as I think they've got the best (mobile event presentation) of anyone right now (G+, Plancast, ??)
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aaronpk ah cool, I haven't seen much of FB events on mobile
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tantek I got the idea for the wide but short event map from FB
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tantek er location map - like this: http://static-maps.pdx.esri.com/img.php?marker=location:2+Harrison+st,+San+Francisco,+CA;icon:small-orange-cutout&basemap=gray&width=640&height=160&zoom=15
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tantek though I've tweaked it to be more usable / useful than FB event's map embeds
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bret that static map is way slick!
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tantek thanks bret! and thank aaronpk (I only tweaked the parameters until I got what looked good)
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tantek we'll see how it looks & feels when embedded in the middle of a bunch of other event information
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bret you could enhance it with JS too, conceivably, turning it into a live map upon interaction
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aaronpk bret: source code is here if you want to run it on your own site :) https://github.com/esripdx/Static-Maps-API-PHP
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bret i need to learn php :(
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tantek bret - you could, but easier to simply link to an external gmap to do that
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tantek especially for mobile
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tantek which I think may launch the gmaps app
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tantek on some platforms
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tantek (insert lots of hand waving)
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aaronpk agreed
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tantek I really don't want to maintain a bunch of JS on my site
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tantek that always seems like signing up for more maintenance headaches
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dietrich aaronpk: does indieauth follow redirects and support https?
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aaronpk sort of yes
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aaronpk I believe right now it rejects links that go from https->http
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dietrich i set it up using your example code, but none of my services are verifying
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aaronpk i can look real quick, what'syour site?
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dietrich http://metafluff.com/
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dietrich and the verification: https://www.dropbox.com/s/30t84ddw879k1ve/Screenshot%202013-12-02%2015.34.38.png
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aaronpk well your github profile doesn't link to http://metafluff.com/
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dietrich ah, i have to have the link back
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dietrich gotcha
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dietrich the error said there was no rel=me, so i stopped there :)
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aaronpk aha
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aaronpk "supported" is the key operator there :)
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aaronpk the twitter one looks right...
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dietrich ah and twitter was a www which i don't have set up
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aaronpk oh funny... i'm getting an SSL error on twitter.com now
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dietrich yeah that's the only one i don't have working now
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aaronpk ok cool
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aaronpk yeah that's a weird one... I might have to update the server certs or something again
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aaronpk SSL is kind of a pain sometimes
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dietrich understatement
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aaronpk heh
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tantek.com edited /icon (+238) "/* iOS site as app */ link to apple dev docs" (view diff)
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dietrich so, logging into indiewebcamp.com via indieauth created a user account with a name of "Metafluff.com"
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aaronpk correct
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dietrich how can i make it so it uses a proper name?
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aaronpk you can't
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aaronpk :)
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tantek dietrich - it uses the (domain) name you already chose
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aaronpk it's a little bit different way of thinking about accounts. rather than making an account on the wiki, think of it as identifying to the wiki as your domain
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tantek You're welcome to create a user page for the account and add an h-card with given-name family-name etc. ;)
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dietrich sure, i understand how the system works, but that's different than user experience
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tantek exactly. no need to create yet another name.
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tantek dietrich - yes, we've removed a step.
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tantek making progress bit by bit
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dietrich heh, funny guy
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dietrich turns out i *do* have a name though, and it's not my domain name
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dietrich i was already confused, trying to find my user page on indiewebcamp.com
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dietrich and then found a link to my domain name on the bottom
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aaronpk dietrich: my intent was actually to point out the user experience, not the system architecture
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aaronpk the fact that there is a mediawiki user account behind the scenes is irrelevant to you being able to identify as your domain and make wiki edits
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tantek dietrich - yes, there's some improvements that can be made with auto-detecting someone's "human" name from their h-card at their domain
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dietrich yeah i got that
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tantek and then using that to address them in the UI
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bret I belive it was to help demonstrate and promote domain as a primary identity http://indiewebcamp.com/Why_web_sign-in
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dietrich tantek: righty, that's exactly i was talking about
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tantek bret we could do both e.g.: given-name family-name (domain-name)
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tantek aaronpk - what do you think of reading someone's h-card from their domain upon first login and creating their user page with that h-card?
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dietrich that would reduce confusion in my case :)
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tantek that could be a start towards greeting people by their human name
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tantek just thinking out loud here
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aaronpk tantek: you mean like auto-populating their user page with some content?
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tantek yes - auto-*creating* their user page
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aaronpk (user page still being their domain name)
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bret the found h-card? way cool
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tantek right
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tantek all identity is still done by their domain name
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aaronpk yeah that would be awesome
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tantek however we can put some presentational sugar on top
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tantek to humanize it
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tantek and frankly, show how using web identity can be superior to email identity
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tantek in UX
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aaronpk looks like I'd do that here https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth-MediaWiki/blob/master/IndieAuth.php#L336