#indiewebcamp 2013-12-12
2013-12-12 UTC
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@t on "independently writing and publishing on the web" by @zeldman: "This is a Website" http://www.zeldman.com/2013/12/11/this-is-a-website/ #indieweb (ttk.me t4TW2) (twitter.com/_/status/410922360074952704)
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@gridinoc RT @t: on "independently writing and publishing on the web" by @zeldman: "This is a Website" http://www.zeldman.com/2013/12/11/this-is-a-website/ #indieweb (ttk.me t4TW2) (twitter.com/_/status/410924920982745088)
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ShaneHudson Loved that post from zeldman, a proper call to arms for publishing to our own blogs :)
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@microformats @placenamehere try the in-progress h-entry validator too http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry#Validating feedback welcome! ^@t #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/410932565155917824)
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@haxor RT @t: on "independently writing and publishing on the web" by @zeldman: "This is a Website" http://www.zeldman.com/2013/12/11/this-is-a-website/ #indieweb (ttk.me t4TW2) (twitter.com/_/status/410950127281401856)
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2013-345-tantek-home-posts.jpg]]""
# tantek.com edited /Falcon (+0) "/* Working On */ update to new mobile home screenshots" (view diff)
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@cstanhope RT @t: on "independently writing and publishing on the web" by @zeldman: "This is a Website" http://www.zeldman.com/2013/12/11/this-is-a-website/ #indieweb (ttk.me t4TW2) (twitter.com/_/status/411005790971895808)
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# 
KevinMarks now I just need to write slides for my Le Web talk...
# KevinMarks which is in 5 hours time
# KevinMarks this was my pitch: "The Web We Found" A decade ago, in the wake of the dotcom crash, we reinvented the web as a personal space, building on existing standards to create the blogging and social network revolutions that have overturned publishing and communications. We've seen companies come and go, devices rise and fall, but the core values of the web remained to underpin it all. The challenge is to ensure we don't lose sight of these as we build
# KevinMarks The challenge is to ensure we don't lose sight of these as we build for the next decade. The Indieweb principles hold up over time, and like the open standard and open source models we all now accept, give a framework where everyone's contribution can survive.
# KevinMarks that's more of the middle - the FUD that people like Rabois say now
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@xtof_fr #indieweb - Mise á Jour Jetpack 2.7 : POSSEz vos contenus WordPress vers Google+ http://christopheducamp.com/b/2013-12-12/mise-a-jour-jetpack-2-7-possez-vos-contenus-wordpress-sur-google-indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/411030225032470528)
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# KevinMarks_ so if I'm talking about 10 years ago, I should mention mobile and social, right?
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# KevinMarks hi
# KevinMarks hello there
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# KevinMarks trying to slideify the principles now
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jonnybarnes hey guys
# jonnybarnes (and gals)
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barnabywalters morning jonnybarnes
# jonnybarnes anyone here use a mac?
# barnabywalters yes
# KevinMarks my slides - thoughts? http://slides.kevinmarks.com/leweb.html
# KevinMarks yes I use a mac too
# jonnybarnes I'm having an annoyance with nginx installed through homebrew. See http://superuser.com/questions/687334/how-to-start-a-plist-agent-running-as-root-at-boot
# jonnybarnes you guys now how to use launchctl
# barnabywalters KevinMarks: interesting use of “refound” :)
# jonnybarnes it seems a bit of a black-box at the moment
# barnabywalters jonnybarnes: sorry, I’ve never messed with launchctl
# KevinMarks not used it myself either
# jonnybarnes ah well, hopefully someone will answer on superuser eventually
# barnabywalters KevinMarks: nitpick: on http://slides.kevinmarks.com/leweb.html#/12, should et al have a . at the end?
# KevinMarks I don't think so - it's not an abbreviation afaik
# KevinMarks ah, it is. hmm
# barnabywalters not sure I agree with “using silos to connect” on http://slides.kevinmarks.com/leweb.html#/20 — we use silos for social backwards compatibility and as easy notification infrastructure
# barnabywalters otherwise, looking like a great talk! will it be livestreamed?
# KevinMarks yes, it'll be on the leweb stream
# KevinMarks allgedly in 7 minutes, so we're clearly running behind
# barnabywalters oh wow okay
# KevinMarks BTW transcript fo the australian interview si up: http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/futuretense/a-healthy-digital-ecology/5131856#transcript
# KevinMarks I need to PESOS that back to my site
# KevinMarks looks like we're 30 mins behind
# KevinMarks The french minister over-ran
# KevinMarks DRY fail
# KevinMarks fixed that, and put up an index.html http://slides.kevinmarks.com
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igalic KevinMarks: http://slides.kevinmarks.com/hict.html#/14 still has the countdown from 30..
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@manufarez @kevinmarks says IndieWeb is the future. "Make your own stuff so it belongs only to you". Couldn't agree more. #privacymarket #leweb13 (twitter.com/_/status/411102558166712320)
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@matwg Open source is the software that lasts. Indie Web is the one to watch right now @kevinmarks #leweb2013 http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/411102733412745216)
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@CatchLondon Open source is the software that lasts. Indie Web is the one to watch right now @kevinmarks #leweb2013 http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/411102733999960066)
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@lenngrenm @kevinmarks think IndieWeb is the future. Your stuff should belong only to you. But use open source, outlasts companies, saves effort #leweb (twitter.com/_/status/411103938255941632)
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@sakalli RT @lenngrenm: @kevinmarks think IndieWeb is the future. Your stuff should belong only to you. But use open source, outlasts companies, sav… (twitter.com/_/status/411104293551611904)
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# KevinMarks hiya, did anyone watch?
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@_omr #LeWeb intéressante intervention de @kevinmarks sur l' #IndieWeb @indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/_omr/status/411105086580879361/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/411105086580879361)
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@kevinmarks RT @_omr: #LeWeb intéressante intervention de @kevinmarks sur l' #IndieWeb @indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/_omr/status/411105086580879361/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/411106508303503360)
# @_omr #LeWeb @kevinmarks : #POSSE : Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere. http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE https://twitter.com/_omr/status/411106569313468417/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/411106569313468417)
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@ashalynd RT @_omr: #LeWeb intéressante intervention de @kevinmarks sur l' #IndieWeb @indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/_omr/status/411105086580879361/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/411106771043110912)
# @kevinmarks My #leweb "The Web We Found" sildes are on my own site: http://slides.kevinmarks.com/leweb.html - share them elsewhere? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/411106892895641600)
# @kevinmarks RT @_omr: #LeWeb @kevinmarks : #POSSE : Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere. http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE https://twitter.com/_omr/status/411106569313468417/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/411107202670546944)
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@firasd RT @kevinmarks: My #leweb "The Web We Found" sildes are on my own site: http://slides.kevinmarks.com/leweb.html - share them elsewhere? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/411107984521981952)
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@fcaldeira RT @kevinmarks: My #leweb "The Web We Found" sildes are on my own site: http://slides.kevinmarks.com/leweb.html - share them elsewhere? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/411108129007763456)
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@KamaXe RT @_omr: #LeWeb @kevinmarks : #POSSE : Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere. http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE https://twitter.com/_omr/status/411106569313468417/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/411113079351431168)
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# jonnybarnes does anyone know of any issues with mb_strlen() and a string in Unicode NFC? Or should it just work?
# jonnybarnes I don’t understand this sentence: “Be sure to leave room for the ellipsis too: instead of just 1 character for a space before your permashortlink, save 4 characters for "... ", or 3 characters for "… " (ellipsis entity character).”
# barnabywalters jonnybarnes: which part is confusing you?
# jonnybarnes surely the single ellipsis entity character counts as 1 character
# jonnybarnes so 2 characters for ELLIPSES + SPACE
# barnabywalters that “3 chars for "… "” might be wrong, unless twitter’s still counting bytes instead of characters
# jonnybarnes twitter uses unicde nfc these days
# barnabywalters jonnybarnes: feel free to correct the wiki — bonus points if you add a link to a twitter article/docs about counting unicode characters
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# jonnybarnes.net edited /Twitter (+146) "/* POSSE abbr note to twitter */ change character length of ellipsis plus space" (view diff)
# jonnybarnes edited
# barnabywalters nice work
# jonnybarnes am I being stupid, or is this logic correct with contructing tweets to send to Twitter from notes: http://paste.laravel.com/1dIb
# barnabywalters looks fine to me — the tricky thing is to make sure you’re counting *all* URLs in the text as if they were 22 chars, not just the link you’re adding on to the end
# jonnybarnes ah, so one could send a tweet to the API that starts with > 140 chat URL and then a few words, and that would be accepted because the URL would get shrunk by t.co?
# barnabywalters yes, *unless* it has a country-code TLD (e.g. .co.cc) and no scheme (I think)
# barnabywalters also, twitter is extremely inconsistent about which URLs they auto-link, i.e. the native app autolinks URLs differently to twitter.com
# barnabywalters so don’t necessarily trust any of their UIs to tell you what does and doesn’t get t.coed
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# @kevinmarks @aurelienblaha @stshank @garyvee theres some #indieweb work on propagating comment responses in silos: http://indiewebcamp.com/comments (twitter.com/_/status/411139424076828672)
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# jonnybarnes its not magically going to turn into mediterranean weather in Manchester tonight is it? I'm out collecting for charity and I dont want to get cold :(
# jonnybarnes in the cassis function `ellipsize_to_word` what are the arguments $e and $s?
# jonnybarnes based on the start of the function $s is the note itself, so what's $e?
# barnabywalters jonnybarnes: IIRC it’s the string to use as an ellipsis
# barnabywalters so you can choose between … and ... or whatever other typographical wotsit your taste/locale demands
# jonnybarnes ah, that makes sense
# barnabywalters tantek tends to like extremely concise variable names
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@atyiat RT @kevinmarks: My #leweb "The Web We Found" sildes are on my own site: http://slides.kevinmarks.com/leweb.html - share them elsewhere? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/411152182445363201)
# jonnybarnes cool, I may have missed a comment somehwere, but I think the first time you use a concise variable, you should explain what it is. Though I may have missed the explanatory comment
# barnabywalters cassis.js can be quite tricky to get the hang of. tantek’s aware of the usability issues
# barnabywalters I’m all for concise variables, just not in function signatures
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# @kevinmarks http://socialsafe.net/ is PESOS as a service #leweb #indieweb http://indiewebcamp.com/PESOS (twitter.com/_/status/411158504687153152)
# KevinMarks or possibly SPOF as a service
# barnabywalters KevinMarks: does socialsafe pull data back onto your “own site”?
# KevinMarks onto your own computer. It's written in Flex though. http://socialsafe.net/faq
# barnabywalters so without the republishing component, it’s not exactly PESOS, rather a (great looking) silo backup tool
# KevinMarks they have an API so you can publish data to other services
# barnabywalters KevinMarks: ooh cool, where is that documented? can’t see it mentioned anywhere
# KevinMarks He was saying it onstage as a coming soon thing, though is sounded more like a personal cloud pitch like midata
# KevinMarks thanks neuro`
# KevinMarks well, you probably knew what I was going to say anyway...
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# jonnybarnes what does cassis::ellipsize_to_word() do when it comes across a note with a huge URL in the middle. i.e. 78 chars + long URL (which will actually be 22 chars once tcoed) 45chars of text.
# jonnybarnes In total that needs trimming, but I think the function will actually put the ellipsis after the first 72chars
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# KevinMarks went over pretty well (given the pre-lunch slot)
# KevinMarks slides.kevinmarks.com/leweb.html
# KevinMarks basically about 10 minutes of web history and 8 minutes of IndieWeb principles
# KevinMarks video should be up tomorrow
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# KevinMarks afaik Anil wasn't here
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# jonnybarnes I can't do twitter syndication of long notes
# jonnybarnes I'm just getting myself confused
# jonnybarnes yeah, so I'm struggling with the usecase of something like 70char sentence + really long URL + another sentence of whatever length
# tantek.com edited /Twitter (+1) "/* POSSE abbr note to twitter */ update max tweet syndication lengths per new tco URL lengths" (view diff)
# jonnybarnes twitter will shorten the url so I'd really want an ellipsis to occur in the second sentence
# jonnybarnes so simply cutting the string at 140chars won't do that
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aaronpk https://api.twitter.com/1/help/configuration.json "The Twitter REST API v1 is no longer active. Please migrate to API v1.1."
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tantek well to be fair - benward did point to the 1.1 docs at the time: https://dev.twitter.com/docs/api/1.1/get/help/configuration
# aaronpk except now I can't make an unauthenticated request to https://api.twitter.com/1.1/help/configuration.json
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@mmzeroexp we've been down this road before. build an #indieweb http://www.onemanandhisblog.com/archives/2013/12/leweb_-_kevin_marks_on_the_web_that_will.html (twitter.com/_/status/411179881578643456)
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@ImageSnippets we've been down this road before. build an #indieweb http://www.onemanandhisblog.com/archives/2013/12/leweb_-_kevin_marks_on_the_web_that_will.html (twitter.com/_/status/411179881725427712)
# tantek aaronpk - you could scrape the example return JSON from https://dev.twitter.com/docs/api/1.1/get/help/configuration
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aaronparecki.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+159) "add post about kevinmarks leweb talk" (view diff)
# aaronparecki.com edited /business-models (-1) "/* Mentions Proxies */ oops wrong link" (view diff)
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# indiewebcamp-vis I just learned about indiewebcamp today.
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# david111780 thx for the tip tantek
# tantek !tell jonnybarnes to create the proxy text for Twitter to then figure out where to ellipsize, I use the tw_text_proxy($s) cassis function: https://github.com/tantek/cassis/blob/master/cassis.js#L1252 (it takes just a text string as a single parameter)
# david111780 gosh, i haven't used irc in so long.
# david111780 never been a huge user but thought I would dabble today.
# david111780 I was so excited yesterday when I got a LinkedIn connection invite from Jeffrey Zeldman.
# david111780 I just learned about IndieWebCamp today and about you Tantek from Jeffrey's article in my Feedspot "http://www.zeldman.com/2013/12/11/this-is-a-website/"
# david111780 yea... nice history lesson. :)
# david111780 just authenticated my domain with app.net.
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# david111780 Tantek or anyone else, do you know anyone that would be willing to help me with getting our new domain setup correctly to send mail? We are using Coldfusion and CFMail tags to send email via our custom built ecommerce solution.
# david111780 We have just moved over to a new hosting provider and I don't think they have configured our domain SPF and MX records correctly.
# david111780 I know this isn't the proper channel for this type of stuff but maybe you guys could point me in the right direction.
# snarfed i clicked Log In on http://indiewebcamp.com/Google+ , and it redirected me to http://indiewebcamp.com/Google (no +)
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# 
@SocialSafe For more about our 'Big Data Is Wrong' message from our #LeWeb finalist pitch, check out our blog: http://blog.socialsafe.net/2013/12/12/big-data-is-wrong-lots-of-little-data-is-right/ #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/411198084774105088)
# snarfed btw, i'm late to the socialsafe conversation, but i did a somewhat deep dive while working on http://freedom.io a bit ago, and i got a pretty positive impression
# tantek aaronpk, and especially this, which benward wrote BEFORE he joined Twitter: http://blog.benward.me/post/968515729
# aaronpk although Github is up next http://developer.github.com/changes/2013-10-04-oauth-changes-coming/
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# tantek (snarfed you did see this right? http://tantek.com/2013/335/t1/thankstostarwars-noticed-indieweb-principles-wired )
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# aaronpk (started brainstorming here: http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub)
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# tantek snarfed - re: thinkup goals, I think it's not easy to find them because they're confused about them, e.g. https://twitter.com/t/status/339851130429390849
# tantek and what we do know is a bit misplaced: https://twitter.com/t/status/339852264766308353
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# aaronpk http://news.indiewebcamp.com/newest is chronological
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# aaronpk tantek: so my main blocker on micropub is how to deal with nested objects: http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Nested_Microformat_Objects
# aaronpk tantek: this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geo_URI
# CheckDavid How does one serve banner ads depending on the geographical area of the visitor?
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# aaronpk tantek: that probably solves it actually, because there's no nested properties for the base post types http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#h-entry
# CheckDavid tantek, I think I prefer to be creepy, no?
# CheckDavid It's between being creepy and annoying
# CheckDavid So that's the best thing? W3C GeoLocation API ?
# CheckDavid I am sure there is a lot of coding to do around that little thing
# CheckDavid that's just a standard by the sound of t
# CheckDavid *it
# CheckDavid But people get a popup that way asking if they want to gie us their location right?
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# CheckDavid Why good?
# CheckDavid But why
# CheckDavid it's geo location through IP
# CheckDavid And it works ok
# CheckDavid because the place the ads point to, also require people to be from a non american ip
# CheckDavid So there be some asynchronism if I did it that way
# barnabywalters geolocation via IP is fine for country-level location. pretty useless for saying “I checked into this noodle restaurant”
# barnabywalters ahoy bnvk!
# CheckDavid Why unless for mobile first?
# barnabywalters bnvk: I have been working on owning my phone calls+UI with SIP and WebRTC recently — making some interesting progress
# CheckDavid I just want to weed out americans
# CheckDavid And direct them to a website, that doesn't ask for user location through the W3C GeoLocation API
# CheckDavid them = non-americans
# CheckDavid OH, it's not personal, so maybe this is not a good way to ask about this?
# CheckDavid It's for a friend's website, he wants to serve some ads
# CheckDavid But those are not appropriate for the US
# CheckDavid OH I see
# CheckDavid sorry
# barnabywalters bnvk: basically: make a tropo app which has local numbers in whatever countries I can get them in as well as a SIP address. that app forwards calls going to it to my personal SIP address
# barnabywalters then, I use phono.com for two things:
# CheckDavid =)
# barnabywalters * as a webRTC -> SIP bridge so people can go to my homepage, click a “Call Me” button which calls the tropo SIP address, which forwards to my actual SIP address
# barnabywalters and then make it so that I can accept calls through the browser whenever I’m logged in
# barnabywalters each phono session has an ID which gives it a SIP address
# barnabywalters when I log in, I store my current session on my server
# barnabywalters and the tropo app forwards incoming calls to both my static SIP address and the one for my current browser session
# barnabywalters tantek: a little like that yes
# barnabywalters except forwarding to a softphone instead of a GSM number
# barnabywalters bnvk: maybe, still working on that part
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# pdxleif Hey, is anyone involved in / using the Portable Contacts spec?
# barnabywalters but in the meantime, I can detect webRTC support and fall back to the closest local number to the user’s location
# barnabywalters automatically applying all those horribly confusing international dialing codes so we don’t have to think about them
# barnabywalters so people can call, say, a US or UK number and it’ll ring in my browser
# barnabywalters tantek: hm, I should have just enough time to do that before making dinner
# barnabywalters URL suggestions? /page? /call? /phone?
# barnabywalters or just dump on /homepage at the moment
# barnabywalters seeing as the UI is homepage-specific
# snarfed fb and twitter from https://facebook-poco.appspot.com/ and https://twitter-poco.appspot.com/
# barnabywalters tantek: sounds good, except that it apparently forbidden: http://indiewebcamp.com/phone/
# barnabywalters INDIEPHONE CONSPIRACY THEORY TIME
# barnabywalters aaronpk: any ideas?
# barnabywalters bnvk: I’m planning on finding out — should just be a matter of installing a SIP client which can run in the background
# barnabywalters until mob. safari has good support for background processes and webRTC
# aaronpk barnabywalters: http://indiewebcamp.com/phone works now
# barnabywalters aaronpk: awesome, thanks
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# barnabywalters wonders how tricky it would be to make a fork of/addon for FFOS which does the indieweb people icon homescreen contact UI thing
# barnabywalters bnvk: heck, why not just buy a FFOS phone
# barnabywalters bnvk: great, grab one for me too while you’re in the US, they’re a nightmare to get hold of over here :)
# caseorganic tantek: hear hear
# caseorganic tantek: that was my largest confusion. why build something from scratch on both the hardware and software side when there are plenty of good solutions out there already?
# caseorganic bnvk: yes
# caseorganic i'm also wondering how much of the indie namespace he will be trademarking
# caseorganic tantek++
# caseorganic tantek: precisely. it was very confusing to see that. felt like a slap in the face
# caseorganic tantek: he might just be from a different background. but with the indie conference coming up and other efforts labelled indie, it seems more and more unsettling
# caseorganic tantek: i'm sick to my stomach about it, so i'm just ignoring it and focusing on what's being built here.
# caseorganic tantek: ?
# tantek there are only indiewebcamps: http://indiewebcamp.com/Events
# caseorganic tantek: so he's not organizing one as messaged in the email?
# aaronparecki.com moved /phone/ to /phone
# barnabywalters aaronpk: looks like there’s still some htaccess redirect in place there
# tantek aaronpk I wrote this a while ago: http://indiewebcamp.com/design
# barnabywalters I get the / in the URL whatever happens
# barnabywalters hm maybe
# barnabywalters (RE design-focused wiki pages)
# barnabywalters although there is still a lot of server algorithm and markup on that page
# barnabywalters yeah actually looking at it closer it’s not so visually/interaction focused
# tantek.com created /UX (+20) "UX is just the fancy new higher-paying word for "design"" (view diff)
# tantek aaronpk, http://indiewebcamp.com/icon is also fairly ux/design focused
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# tantek.com edited /phone (+1396) "add dfn, indieweb examples with Sam Machin, Sessions section" (view diff)
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# aaronpk crap, p-adr is a nested h-adr object: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-card
# barnabywalters goodnight all
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# aaronpk ok this is getting better http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Nested_Microformat_Objects
# aaronparecki.com edited /micropub (+300) "/* Brainstorming */ add h=* properties to examples" (view diff)
# tantek.com edited /checkin (+623) "add questions section with is checkin just a note with location" (view diff)
# tantek aaronpk - feel free to add your opinions here: http://indiewebcamp.com/checkin#just_a_note_with_a_location
# tantek or just cite yourself if your opinion is the same as http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2012/10/22/1/creating-content-on-the-indie-web#indieweb-posts :)
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# tantek.com edited /phone (+116) "werd.io is up, note use of tel (and related) icons to initiate phone calls (or AV Facetime)" (view diff)
# tantek the closest work on this that I know about is the "downloads" research and brainstorming on the microformats wiki: http://microformats.org/wiki/downloads-brainstorming
# tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2013-346-tantek-home-posts.jpg]]""
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@ShaneHudson @designernaut I just prefer to publish to my own site, especially good articles. Read: http://www.zeldman.com/2013/12/11/this-is-a-website/ and http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/411253485997289472)
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# ShaneHudson Well if Facebook tried to buy snapchat for $4bn, it makes sense for both companies to try to make their own
# ShaneHudson Ah yeah 3, I don't pay too much attention.. so ridiculiously overpriced
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# KevinMarks !tell tantek the talk is up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve48PjgDAn0
# @kevinmarks my #leweb talk "The Web We Found" is up as video: http://www.youtube.com/ #indieweb slides: http://slides.kevinmarks.com/leweb.html (twitter.com/_/status/411283918860451840)
# @ShaneHudson RT @kevinmarks: my #leweb talk "The Web We Found" is up as video: http://www.youtube.com/ #indieweb slides: http://slides.kevinmarks.com/leweb.html (twitter.com/_/status/411283996589318144)