#indiewebcamp 2014-01-07

2014-01-07 UTC
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Loqi happy birthday barnabywalters!
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Loqi Countdown set by aaronpk on 1/6/14 at 11:37am
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barnabywalters ha ha awesome, thanks aaronpk!
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/why-i-love-silicon-valley-despite-hating-silicon-valley linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (pingback)
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bret Happy Bday
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bret !
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barnabywalters now all you need is the last four digits of my credit card number and you can social-engineer impersonating me (yay)
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benwerd Happy birthday Barnaby :)
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Loqi yay!
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barnabywalters thanks bret and benwerd
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barnabywalters benwerd: when are you coming to iceland?
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benwerd when I can ;)
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barnabywalters cool :)
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bret or should I say, h-appy-birthday
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benwerd I'm determined to get back to europe this year, for an extended trip, and Iceland seems like a good place to be part of it
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barnabywalters bret: LOL
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barnabywalters class="h-event h-appy-birthday"
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barnabywalters that would make an awesome über-geeky birthday card
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@ShaneHudson @djp1974 @t There are projects that people are working on that should be accessible to a beginner, such as http://idno.co/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/420345514878435328)
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tantek happy birthday barnabywalters!!
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tantek or happy dt-bday as it were ;)
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benwerd barnabywalters: wait, is this your birthday gmt?
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barnabywalters icelandic time is the same as GMT in the winter, but I don’t know what time I was born, so midnight will do
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benwerd barnabywalters: Gotcha. Well, all the best people were born on January 7. Fact.
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barnabywalters thanks everyone — have a reverse birthday present: http://waterpigs.co.uk/services/test-alt/
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tantek hey that's neat
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barnabywalters tempted to try adding support for @title and object/video/audio nested fallback content too
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barnabywalters but image alts are the most common case
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tantek wondering where would be a good page to put that
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tantek link to that
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benwerd really useful, and handy that it's just fed from a GET parameter. nice work :)
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tantek going to put it in posts#Testing for now
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tantek.com edited /posts (+162) "new Testing section with indiewebifyme and Barnaby's alt tester" (view diff)
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barnabywalters benwerd:the idea is that all these little GET ?url= services could be composed together, e.g. feed a URL first through http://waterpigs.co.uk/services/test-article/ and then the alt-tester
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tantek this seems like a reasonably place for now: http://indiewebcamp.com/posts#Testing
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benwerd barnabywalters: groovy
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tantek hey barnabywalters - until you get access to update indiewebify.me, I'm going to post/share links to the version on your domain
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tantek hey bnvk_ - please give barnabywalters perms to update indiewebify.me - seems like the deployment there is often quite out of date with the repo
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barnabywalters tantek: we’re in the process of getting me deploy access (turns out unix is difficult), but feel free to link to my one
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barnabywalters the main domain is actually up to date now
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tantek commandlines--
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Loqi commandlines has -1 karma
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bnvk_ tantek: I just deployed his updates today
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tantek thank bnvk_!!!
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tantek now if only there was some way to tell how up to date it was...
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bnvk hehe
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bnvk but I should / will get him access at some point
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barnabywalters hm, maybe I could make my instance detect whether or not the main domain is up to date and redirect to it if it is…
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tantek.com edited /posts (-13) "/* Testing */ use main indiewebify domain" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks “Some smart coder or two will launch a rival service from their basement, with no financing at all.” http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/16-11/st_thompson #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/420361271284748288)
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@kevinmarks "the Internet belongs to us…the companies who track us, shout at us, buy and sell us”Š—”Šthey are our guests” http://jakelevine.me/blog/2014/01/remember-the-frontier/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/420362599830544384)
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benwerd Well, if I only did one thing today, it was help fix a bug with Twitter.
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benwerd (I did lots of things. But gratifying that they picked it up.)
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snarfed benwerd: whoa, they already fixed it?
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snarfed or at least confirmed they would?
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benwerd Well, they've confirmed that it's now an active bug in their system
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benwerd Which is good enough for me for now
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benwerd I think everyone agrees it's not doing the right thing
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snarfed nice to get confirmation
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tantek benwerd - nicely done!
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benwerd It'd be nice to get it properly fixed! I find myself hard-refreshing Twitter pages to reply to them with my Firefox reply button, which is a horrible kludge
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benwerd So that was a very loud bang in downtown San Francisco just now
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tantek is in Mountain View still.
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tantek meetings down here today.
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tantek benwerd - where in SF?
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tantek kevinmarks - that wired article is from 2008!
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tantek http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/16-11/st_thompson
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benwerd FiDi
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benwerd sounded like it was coming from Market. All the cars stopped for a few seconds.
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tantek checks Twitter.
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tantek hmm - nothing. just some babbling about Michael Bay. pop culture irrelevance?
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benwerd Michael Bay apparently got stagefright at CES and zzzzzz
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tantek fell asleep?!?
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tantek or you fell asleep with the story? ;)
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tantek has trouble with natural language parsing sometimes.
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benwerd I have trouble writing natural language sometimes ;) No, I find the story uninteresting.
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tantek can't help watch the video.
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tantek ok, now we know how the pros do it.
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@t @ericnakagawa more validators welcome! Check out: http://microformats.org/wiki/validators Especially: http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-entry #indieweb (ttk.me t4Tw1) (twitter.com/_/status/420401893333274625)
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matthewlevine.com created /User:Matthewlevine.com (+55) "Created page with "= Matthew Levine = Find me at http://matthewlevine.com/"" (view diff)
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matthewlevine.com edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+92) "Matthew Levine RSVP" (view diff)
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snarfed !tell benwerd your indieweb talk at rockit colabs looks great! just fyi, the werd.io post says it's 1/22, but their page and the meetup page both say 1/21. i'm guessing it's the latter?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek snarfed - heads-up reminder - if you can take the lead on organizing the 2014-029 Homebrew Website Club meetup (venue etc.) it would be appreciated!
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tantek feel free to duplicate the 2014-01-15 wiki page and go from there
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snarfed !tell tantek sure! happy to
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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Loqi tantek: snarfed left you a message 1 hour, 30 minutes ago: sure! happy to
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tantek :)
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neuro` Good mornin
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neuro` g
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@djp1974 Hey Twitter - anyone know if an #indieweb group already exists in #Canberra? If not, who wants to start an old-school homebrew website club? (twitter.com/_/status/420518526915325952)
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jonnybarnes hey everyone :)
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aaronpk good morning
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jonnybarnes ooh, its aaron, you posted anote with a sceenshot of your phone recently, whats the GPS app in the dock? it has an orangy icon.
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aaronpk that's an app i'm writing https://github.com/aaronpk/Offline-Logger-iOS
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aaronpk I use it to track gps all day long
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jonnybarnes looks cool, might Offline Logger make its way into the App Store?
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aaronpk it's possible
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aaronpk although I'd have to figure out how to make apple happy with it
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aaronpk I don't really want to write a cloud service for it, but it's kind of weird to have an app in the store that requires you build your own server :)
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jonnybarnes you could always out it on Cydia :P
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aaronpk meh, I don't care enough to do that :P
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thompsgr Greetings...found IndieWebCamp while reading up on publify as a possible cms engine..."Own your data" is music to my ears. :)
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thompsgr Looking for some pointers on getting started (other than the Getting Started page). Anyone have a minute and want to help out a newbie?
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jonnybarnes hello fellow newbie
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jonnybarnes what do you want to know?
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thompsgr howdy jonny
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thompsgr been at the hacking thing a long time but never took control of my online identity
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thompsgr want to start doing that now, rather than giving all my content over to the social sites
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jonnybarnes well, the thing you need most is your own domain? do you have one?
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thompsgr I have a domain (just parked right now)...I host my 'work' stuff on Dreamhost, so I'm very familiar with them (been doing a lot of php stuff for the past ten years0
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thompsgr but I'm also just cutting my teeth on rails and heroku
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jonnybarnes cool. so the major idea I've picked up is POSSE.
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thompsgr wondering about killing two birds with one stone, and setting up my own publify server on heroku vs. taking the easy way out and spinning up wordpress on dreamhost
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thompsgr same for me. POSSE is something I've been talking with friends and colleagues about for two years, although I didn't know there was a name for it. :)
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jonnybarnes you want to post things to your site first, then have your sites CMS automatically post that content to the whichever social media sites you use
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thompsgr that's why finding this site was like water in the desert. :)
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thompsgr correct
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thompsgr I got publify working locally, but it looks like there are some issues getting it running on heroku...wondering if it will be worth the effort...
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jonnybarnes have a read around the wiki, then have a look at sites like http://indiewebify.waterpigs.co.uk
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Loqi benwerd: snarfed left you a message on 1/6 at 9:05pm: your indieweb talk at rockit colabs looks great! just fyi, the werd.io post says it's 1/22, but their page and the meetup page both say 1/21. i'm guessing it's the latter?
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benwerd !tell snarfed good catch
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benwerd changed the event. I'm trying to engage with the RockIT community - interested to see who comes along. Will steer them all to HWC.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi snarfed: benwerd left you a message 22 seconds ago: good catch
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benwerd hey, nice parsing, loqi
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benwerd what I also said: "changed the event. I'm trying to engage with the RockIT community - interested to see who comes along. Will steer them all to HWC." :)
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snarfed benwerd: np!
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bnvk anyone seen barnabywalters all day?
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Jeena I've been programming with my 13 years old daughter today and this is what we got implemented: http://veinsx.tumblr.com/lana
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Jeena She knew a bit about HTML and CSS already so I showed her basic JavaScript stuff like variables, getElementById, functions, onclick-events and so on
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snarfed Jeena: awesome!
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snarfed i actually started listening to lana del rey recently. unexpected, but not bad
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snarfed benwerd: apologies that my replies end up duplicated on werd.io. not sure why, but i'm sure it's bad markup on my side. :/
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benwerd I'll check it out - I need to look at my parsing again because of the issue you raised the other day anyway, and there may be something else I can do
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bnvk !tell barnabywalters HAPPY BIRTHDAY, my friend :D
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@Brironic @disqushelp That's too bad, though workable. I'm pretty happy with IndieAuth, since MyOpenID is going away. (twitter.com/_/status/420629516621332480)
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snarfed benwerd: got curious. looks like mf2 parses out two duplicate content entries - not sure why - and i'm guessing you render every element in the content list. http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http://snarfed.org/replies/okrs
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benwerd Yes, and ooh.
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benwerd That'll be it :)
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benwerd Taking a look at your source
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benwerd (also, interesting reply. Thanks for that)
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benwerd guessing it's probably the separate entry-content and e-content divs for some reason?
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Zegnat A practical question(s): when sending webmentions, should fragment identifiers be included in the target data? I.e. http://example.com/post/10#title? Will current WebMention endpoints understand this?
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aaronpk I believe current endpoints will accept that, however I am not aware of anybody doing anything with the fragment
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benwerd yep, I'll happily take the fragment and do precisely nothing with it :)
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aaronpk as long as the URL you have in the source parameter actually exists in the HTML, endpoints should accept it
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Zegnat I guess the question is more if endpoints understand that http://example.com/post/10#title == http://example.com/post/10. But good too know, I was wondering if the sending client would have to strip it
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aaronpk but those URLs are not equal
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aaronpk i.e. if your HTML contains http://example.com/post/10#title then you'd better send that in the source parameter
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Zegnat true the URLs are not equal but they (often) refer to the same post/note. That’s what I was mostly worrying about. Whether http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/12/23/1/automatically-generate-your-ssh-config-from-aws-hosts-with-tab-complete#setup would register as the permalink for that specific article or not
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Zegnat (URL as an example, not sending webmentions to it at the moment.)
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aaronpk if it doesn't, then that's a problem with the webmention receiver. you should send the exact URL that you linked to in the HTML.
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Zegnat that clears it up then!
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aaronpk ...note that I am not actually sure I properly handle that for my notes :)
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aaronpk so feel free to test it out on me and will fix :)
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Zegnat Might whip up a test case then, would be interesting to see how the different systems hold up
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aaronpk my site will definitely register it as a mention and it'll show up on aaronparecki.com/mentions, but i'm not sure I'll properly link it up with the correct note
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aaronpk if you do end up testing it, feel free to open an issue here :) https://github.com/aaronpk/p3k/issues
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Zegnat will do!
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aaronpk thanks!
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@kevinmarks “It’s tempting to predict that 2014 will be the year the megaplatforms begin to falter.” http://www.buzzfeed.com/jwherrman/the-year-the-platforms-ruled-the-internet #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/420655890505560064)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: “It’s tempting to predict that 2014 will be the year the megaplatforms begin to falter.” http://www.buzzfeed.com/jwherrman/the-year-the-platforms-ruled-the-internet #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/420656727097610240)
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tantek.com edited /OpenID (+485) "/* Abandonment */ Shutdowns, Disqus" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /OpenID (+20) "/* Why does IndieAuth not consume OpenID? */ IndieAuth is a provider" (view diff)
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Zegnat isn't webfinger.net the authoritative source on the protocol, not *.org as currently listed on http://indiewebcamp.com/WebFinger? Someone might want to change that, or I might do it tomorrow, whichever comes first.
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tantek !tell Zegnat are you using WebFinger on your own website? If not, why do you care about it at all? I suggest looking at IndieAuth instead: http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /Template:indieauth-status (+0) "Twitter appears to be working again, so bumping up from down to mostly. If it keeps working for a few weeks, we can bump it back to up" (view diff)
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tantek as we're considering designs for Indie Readers, filters, (and pruning/batching, h/t snarfed) this Atlantic article seems applicable: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/12/2013-the-year-the-stream-crested/282202/
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snarfed enqueued!
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tantek.com edited /feed_reader (+446) "challenges" (view diff)
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benwerd tantek: on the subject of reading, I noticed dave winer added forwards / back buttons that are almost as functional as yours to his site today, with great fanfare.
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tantek hah! that's funny.
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tantek did he cite any inspiration?
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tantek (I cited Flickr FWIW)
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benwerd no
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tantek benwerd - you notice anything strange about the direction of his arrows?
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benwerd reversed.
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benwerd also no cursor keys.
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tantek refers to http://tantek.com/2011/102/t2/navigation-arrows-back-past-forward-future-ui-pattern ;)
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tantek still - on the positive side, he is building his own CMS to publish the things the way he wants to - and for that he's to be commended!
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benwerd yes
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benwerd he's doing awesome things
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Loqi barnabywalters: bnvk left you a message 3 hours, 57 minutes ago: HAPPY BIRTHDAY, my friend :D
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tantek hey barnabywalters it's still your birthday! Happy birthday!
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barnabywalters YAY — thanks again tantek
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jonnybarnes happy bday barnabywalters
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barnabywalters thanks jonnybarnes!
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jonnybarnes how come aaronpk differentiates between comments (i.e. twitter replies) and webmentions in his sites UI?
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aaronpk i do?
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jonnybarnes http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/01/07/1/email-lifehack
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jonnybarnes it says 2 comments, 1 mention
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jonnybarnes next to the timestamp
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aaronpk ah, that's not a distinction between twitter replies and webmentions
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aaronpk it's whether the post is marked up as "in-reply-to" vs just having a link
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aaronpk notice that shanehudson's post doesn't have in-reply-to markup
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aaronpk I plan to distinguish them further in the UI, but haven't quite figured out how I want to present the mentions yet.
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jonnybarnes ahh, so if his article had in-reply-to then it would be counted as a comment?
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aaronpk yeah
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barnabywalters indeed — there aren’t many UIs for “mentions”, or at least ones which distinguish between the two
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barnabywalters so not as much prior art to draw inspiration from, but also a chance to create something new
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aaronpk pingback is certainly a past example, so learning from that is good
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aaronpk (learning what not do do, that is) :)
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tantek except the bit about actually labeling them "Pingbacks:" in the UI. Ugh. (or "Trackbacks:" before that)
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tantek note to developers: never label stuff in your UI after the name of a piece of backend plumbing or protocol.
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jonnybarnes so if joe bloggs had in-reply-to to a barnabywalters post but also mentioned an aaronpk post and sent a webmention to both then that would be counted as a mention in aaronpk's current ui?
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aaronpk yes. and that's making me re-think putting that "send webmention" button on my posts
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aaronpk jonnybarnes: yes
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tantek whoa - just saw Aaronpk's follow-up show up on that post in real time while having the page open. forgot just how surreal and cool that is.
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: indeed. think of twitter’s UI — people can reply to your tweets, but also mention people in them
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aaronpk tantek: :)
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barnabywalters this is just an extension so you can mention *posts* as well as *people*
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tantek I think having a "Mentions" section is reasonable, as is intermingling "mentions" inline as "mentions" (similar to intermingling "likes" or "reposts")
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jonnybarnes and its actually a twitter reply as well
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tantek that's likely to be up to the preference of the publisher
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tantek now that I see a stream of bridgy mentions coming into my webmention.io it's making me rethink how I want to display all that stuff on my posts!
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tantek aaronpk - have you considered the "yellow fade-in" effect for when new comments show up?
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tantek (in realtime)
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barnabywalters just signed up for bridgy again
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aaronpk oh yeah! good idea
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barnabywalters it is so, so very cool +snarfed
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tantek yeah seriously. bridgy++
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barnabywalters and seamless to sign up!
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aaronpk i'll have to go brush up on my css
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snarfed woot! hope it treats you well, barnabywalters. happy bday btw!
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snarfed thanks for the kind words
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Loqi giggles
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tantek let me try that again
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tantek bridgy++
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Loqi bridgy has 1 karma
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tantek Loqi?
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aaronpk bridgy++
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Loqi bridgy has 2 karma
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snarfed lol
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jonnybarnes Is Loqi some kind of AI experiment?
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Loqi is done
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tantek lol
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aaronpk what is loqi?
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Loqi loqi is mocking me
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jonnybarnes what's bridgy's URL btw?
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aaronpk http://brid.gy
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jonnybarnes thanks
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aaronpk snarfed: I can't wait until I get my instagram hooked up
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tantek.com created /bridgy (+20) "r" (view diff)
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aaronpk that's gonna be fun to see
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snarfed aaronpk: totally!
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tantek jonnybarnes - for nearly every term you see mentioned here, you can just put http://indiewebcamp.com/ in front of it and you'll find out more.
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tantek e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com/bridgy
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Loqi [mention] http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4TxP8L/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4TxP8L/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/backfeed (webmention)
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aaronpk omg has it really been 2 years barnabywalters?
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barnabywalters aaronpk: almost :) June 2012
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barnabywalters so a few months to go
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aaronpk wow
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters why isnt the bridgy hashtag clickable?
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barnabywalters oops, wrong @snarfed twitter handle!
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barnabywalters meh, should link to real homepage anyway
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snarfed heh. i've been watching waterpigs.co.uk accept lots of bridgy webmentions, was just about to go look at the results
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tantek aaronpk - and almost four years since #8 here: http://tantek.com/2010/034/t2/diso-2-personal-domains-shortener-hatom-push-relmeauth
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: hm, that is very off — apparently a bug in my hashtag auto-linking code
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barnabywalters thanks, hadn’t noticed that
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snarfed barnabywalters: looks great! props for using u-url instead of the source url
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aaronpk !!
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aaronpk tantek: and now you can do #10 relatively easily
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aaronpk I still owe you all a blog post, but there's a bunch of docs here https://github.com/indieweb/indieauth-client-php
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tantek aaronpk - right - you've basically implemented #10 with all your indieauth client work!
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jonnybarnes is that what runs https://indieauth.com/ ?
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aaronpk no, indieauth.com is the authorization server
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barnabywalters off to watch smudgy green clouds, goodnight all
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Loqi night
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aaronpk ?
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jonnybarnes isnt he in iceland, does he mean the northern lights?
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aaronpk jealous!
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jonnybarnes they look green to me: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4d/Aurora_Borealis_Poster.jpg
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@peacechicken My @ownCloud server just automatically updated itself to v6. I didn’t even know there was a v6, woohoo! http://blog.karlitschek.de/2013/12/owncloud-6-is-here.html #ownYourData (twitter.com/_/status/420700623387262976)
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