#indiewebcamp 2014-01-22

2014-01-22 UTC
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werd.io edited /2014/SF (+400) "More scaffolding" (view diff)
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tantek thanks benwerd!
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tantek snarfed - does bridgy recognize Event posts that are POSSEd to FB and then proxy FB RSVPs as RSVP replies via webmention?
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snarfed definitely not
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snarfed sadly
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snarfed sounds like a great feature request though, feel free to file it!
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tantek well I'll first implement event posts on my own site
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tantek and then manually POSSE one
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tantek and THEN I'll have some URLs for a feature request issue ;)
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snarfed :P
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aaronpk hmm I should try that!
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tantek.com edited /event (+75) "/* Ben Werdmuller */ note index page of upcoming/recent" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /event (+67) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ aaronpk recent events" (view diff)
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tantek creating an event on your site, then a (even manual) POSSE copy on FB, then seeing people's RSVPs on FB show up on the event *on your site* would be surreal.
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snarfed totally
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snarfed very doable though! wouldn't take too much to add to bridgy
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aaronpk snarfed: how quick do you think you can do that?
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aaronpk i want to do that for the next homebrew event
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snarfed probably a few evenings' work
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tantek :D
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snarfed i need to prioritize a few other things ahead of it, but otherwise it's probably not too hard
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snarfed it'd also be a good starter project for anyone else interested in hacking on bridgy
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tantek.com edited /event (+865) "POSSE to FB would be very interesting if Bridgy backfed RSVPs, brainstorms on an Events index page" (view diff)
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werd.io edited /event (+209) "/* Events index */" (view diff)
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aaronpk did anyone make a facebook event for homebrew website club next week yet?
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snarfed not yet. go for it if you want!
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aaronpk that's an interesting question actually... what happens/should happen if more than one person POSSEs the event to the same silo?
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wagle any advice on what media/format to dump scans of very old photos to? want to share them on my website, but also to archive them for a generation or three
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KartikPrabhu wagle: I would keep I resolution scans for the archive, maybe a high quality jpeg. For the web I would use jpeg again but at a lower resolution and higher compression. You do not want to share huge image files over the Web
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snarfed aaronpk: pointing to the same single event in the silo? or two separate instances of it?
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aaronpk i'm just thinkign what happens if someone else adds a FB event for the same event? cause itl'l probably happen at some point
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snarfed yeah. so, for multiple FB events, it's the standard de-duping problem, which we'd need to address as much non-technically as technically
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aaronpk also-- what's the best way for me to indicate the canonical event URL on this facebook event?
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Loqi also has -1 karma
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snarfed aaronpk: a link or PSC, like usual? ie anything that the original post discovery alg would find
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snarfed and to be extra sure, maybe use rel-syndication
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snarfed but yeah, how to indicate *on the FB event* that the link is canonical…meh, got me
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snarfed PSC at the very end, i guess
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tantek I think for events a PSL makes sense because there's always more UI at the permalink right?
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snarfed sure
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snarfed feels a need to restore balance to the universe…
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snarfed also++
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Loqi also has 0 karma
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snarfed *phew*
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@benwerd I'm hosting an informal introduction to, & open discussion about, the #indieweb tonight in SF: http://werd.io/2014/introduction-to-the-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/425792220717805568)
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snarfed finally! off to reshare that...
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wagle KartikPrabhu: I'm more worried about dying and having my media collect dust for 20 years before someone has a looksee.. the (family) photos are 75-100years old, and have lasted that long, but I don't have an alternate media that I trust to have that amount of longevity
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@snarfed_org RT @benwerd: I'm hosting an informal introduction to, & open discussion about, the #indieweb tonight in SF: http://werd.io/2014/introduction-to-the-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/425792438775447552)
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@indiewebcamp RT @benwerd: I'm hosting an informal introduction to, & open discussion about, the #indieweb tonight in SF: http://werd.io/2014/introduction-to-the-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/425793055233290241)
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tantek benwerd I love that your event post itself is an awesome IndieWeb demo: http://werd.io/2014/introduction-to-the-indieweb - especially: counts of comments, likes, rsvps (though I'd expect that number to mean # attending), and then "activity" on the event.
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KartikPrabhu wagle: that is a legitimate concern. I don't think I know how to solve that problem. Unfortunately keeping things for a long time seems to be going out of fashion
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wagle KartikPrabhu: seem to need a curator to wakeup and copy to new media every few years
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wagle sigh
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wagle i'm dubious
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snarfed wagle: lots of people have thought about digital archival. look for literature from the historian/librarian/archivist community
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snarfed examples off the top of my head: https://archive.org/ , http://aws.amazon.com/glacier/
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snarfed (not that i'm claiming there's an ideal answer to your question, just that smart people definitely have thought about it lots)
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snarfed tantek: agreed on the demo!
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wagle i trust google to keep it alive for about 2-3 years... amazon maybe 5.. just wild assed guesses from my gut/experience
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wagle snarfed: sure.. this channel was my first forey into finding such people
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KartikPrabhu from what I have seen/heard adaction i.e. Jeremy Keith is very much interested in this same question. Would be cool to have his thoughts
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snarfed fair enough, apologies for pushing hard. :P i should rephrase as: it's definitely doable! there's lots of prior art. and you don't need to depend on any individual big company that you may not like
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wagle just got acid free storage boxes a day ago, now starting scanning to a big disk
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caseorganic benwerd++
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Loqi benwerd has 11 karma
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caseorganic !tell benwerd hope your presentation went really well!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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wagle will push out to various places, i think
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KartikPrabhu wagle: I think magnetic media are not that reliable. I have heard tape-drives are better for archiving. Slow but much more robust. But I am no expert
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snarfed agreed on tape
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wagle already had the notion that I didnt trust anyone to stick around for too terribly long
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wagle hmm.. does magtape still exist?
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wagle i was wondering about dvd or blueray
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tantek benwerd - any thoughts of displaying retweets/reposts with a retweets icon and count? similar to likes/faves on your posts, e.g. after the "15 days ago" here: http://werd.io/2014/introduction-to-the-indieweb
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snarfed looks like he's not on
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snarfed but aaronpk has done it, http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/12/03/1/homebrew-website-club#reposts , and pfefferle is working on it for the wordpress plugin
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wagle KartikPrabhu, snarfed: thanks for info/leads
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snarfed good luck
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snarfed !
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tantek wagle, good to see folks working on that problem - it's an important one
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tantek.com edited /repost (+712) "Displaying reposts of" (view diff)
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tantek !tell benwerd any thoughts of displaying retweets/reposts with a retweets icon and count? similar to likes/faves on your posts, e.g. after the "15 days ago" here: http://werd.io/2014/introduction-to-the-indieweb . See also: http://indiewebcamp.com/repost#Displaying_reposts_of
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk snarfed: gave you an example event! http://aaronparecki.com/events/2014/01/29/1/homebrew-website-club
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tantek thanks snarfed - added info to the wiki
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snarfed great!
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tantek nicely done aaronpk
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aaronpk i think I linked it up all right
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tantek aaronpk - manual POSSE?
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aaronpk you could call it that, yes
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tantek wondering if the existing original post discovery algorithm is sufficient - since you did put the permalink to the original as the last URL in the description of the event
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aaronpk I put the link to mine at the end because I thought that'd be how the algorithm would pick it up
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tantek.com edited /event (+153) "/* Aaron Parecki */ add example with POSSE copy on FB" (view diff)
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tantek hmm Barnaby's tool doesn't find anything
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tantek http://waterpigs.co.uk/services/original-post/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fevents%2F1453049941575679%2F
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aaronpk might not be very good in the HTML
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aaronpk but snarfed uses the graph API IIRC
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snarfed bridgy's original post discovery impl is *very* forgiving, and collects all links that qualify, not just the single best one, so it'll handle that fb event fine
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Jeena 3 errors! http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Faaronparecki.com%2Fevents%2F2014%2F01%2F29%2F1%2Fhomebrew-website-club&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0
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aaronpk oh my i haven't run through a validator in a long time
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Jeena hm it is only the fb-like thingy, a div with href is a bit odd ^^
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aaronpk hah nice
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aaronpk not bad for not trying
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Jeena nope
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@t_silos Continuing with the #indieweb jams: "Silo people listen up. […] So, don’t let them steal your content. […] Don… ♫ http://www.thisismyjam.com/t/_7m9npsd?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=sharing&utm_campaign=user (twitter.com/_/status/425807781808324608)
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Jeena what are "jams"?
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bear it looks like the list is trying to be song titles or even lyrics
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bear so "jams" in this usage is regarding a "jam session" that musicians do
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Jeena ah hm ok
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Jeena damn bridgy is working really fine now. Since they added the tweet content into the title it works even with my published code https://jeena.net/notes/8 but I'm still working on parsing the microformats which isn't quite that easy.
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Alkhemist Is bridgy usable by non-developers? I have a WP site, and use Social to feed tweets to Twitter. Will it interact with WP or is some other piece required?
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KartikPrabhu Alkhemist bridgy works by sending webmentions. If you have those enabled, then it will work
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Alkhemist Thank you. I'll go do some research.
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KartikPrabhu There exists a plugin for wordpress for webmentions. look in here http://indiewebcamp.com/Wordpress#Mentions
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Alkhemist Just found the repo for that. I'll try the plugin. Thanks again
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KartikPrabhu bear: should parts of ronkyuu that use a URL be checking that the URL is well-formed
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bear KartikPrabhu - yes, I had meant to go back and add some defensive checks for that
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KartikPrabhu yeah I just ran in to that while testing http://kartikprabhu.com/connection/webmentionsender
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bear ouch - sorry
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KartikPrabhu no worries... I might add it myself if you don't before me
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bear k - thanks
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KartikPrabhu also, I modified the sendMentions function to return the entire request object instead of just the status_code. I found it useful for debugging. Would you want that in the main ronkyuu branch?
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bear if you found it useful - yes please
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KartikPrabhu ok. will upload and send a PR
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bret aaronpk, do you keep webmentions and parsed reply contexts inside your front-matter?
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acegiak what do we think is the best domain registrar? im tossing up between acegiak.me and acegiak.net
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KevinMarks I like hover for service, but they don't do top-level aliases
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KartikPrabhu bear: what is a good procedure to validate URLs? regex?
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bear rarely is "use a regex" ever the answer :)
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bear KartikPrabhu - but yes, a regex is the simplest - I would borrow the one from django: https://github.com/django/django/blob/master/django/core/validators.py#L48
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bret I like https://iwantmyname.com but its expensive. They are a good company though
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bret also, regexs are hard :( So much to consider and so much to remember while writing them
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@rembry Learning about the #IndieWeb What an amazing night of learning. (@ RockIT Colabs) [pic]: http:///login?continue=%2Frembry%2Fcheckin%2F52df37bb11d235f50de7c591 (twitter.com/_/status/425828959981674496)
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bear yea, that's why I always try to borrow one from a known/stable project :0
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@t going to @benwerd's Introduction to the IndieWeb talk late http://werd.io/2014/introduction-to-the-indieweb had another event before. (ttk.me t4UB2) (twitter.com/_/status/425829673403043842)
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snarfed Jeena: thanks! glad it's working well!
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tantek !tell benwerd it looks like I RSVPd to one of your notes ;) http://werd.io/2014/im-hosting-an-informal-introduction-to-open-discussion-about-the
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek hey snarfed! has anyone been taking meeting notes here in the channel?
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tantek s/monotonize/monetize
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snarfed not yet. not sure there's a need, but feel free if you want!
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tantek "people keep saying you should post to Facebook, but that doesn't give me any SEO to my own website"
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tantek nitot: I want to experiment with these tools, how do I install them on my server?
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tantek benwerd: the website to remember is indiewebcamp.com - bunch of projects there
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tantek benwerd: some of those projects are there ready to install from github
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tantek nitot: your system?
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tantek benwerd: my system is written in PHP and mongodb
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tantek benwerd: indiebox project was trying to get idno working, and getting mongodb to compile/run on a small box was difficult
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@kevinmarks My notes on the #readwritemix #futureofmoney talk between @owenthomas and @davidmarcus are up at http://www.kevinmarks.com/rwwpaypal.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/425835257821024256)
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tantek benwerd: so I'm looking into offering a service
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tantek nitot: so you'll the new wordpress.com?
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tantek benwerd: I don't want to create a service that is then a monoculture
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture
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tantek snarfed: another answer - where do I start - http://indiewebify.me/
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tantek benwerd: the other useful resource is an event that happens every two weeks
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tantek benwerd: homebrew website club
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tantek ..: next one is 29th
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club
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tantek benwerd: there's a video link between SF and Portland
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tantek ..: definitely recommend it
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tantek nitot: would you be interested in having something similar in the Mozilla office in Paris
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tantek benwerd: twist my arm
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tantek snarfed: answer is yes!
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tantek benwerd: seems like the smart thing to do
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tantek benwerd: there have been UK meetups for years now
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tantek.com created /UK (+133) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/UK
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tantek.com edited /UK (+10) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek benwerd: e.g. pubsubhubbub company in France http://indiewebcamp.com/PubSubHubbub
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tantek snarfed: let's give ben a hand
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tantek benwerd: IndieWebCamp events coming up in SF in March, NYC in April, Portland in June
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/Events
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tantek ??: when do I post what where? perhaps everything on my personal page and the syndicate in particular places?
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tantek snarfed: yes most of us do something like that
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tantek …: we choose what to copy where. E.g. by type.
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tantek benwerd: it's very contextual. e.g. for photos it's Flickr and Facebook. for checkins just Foursquare.
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/xtof_fr/425765255151501314/415643 linked to http://Indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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@nitot @xtof_fr va falloir qu'on se voie á mon retour á Paris :-) #indieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/425882141679833088)
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Jihaisse Hello
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@xtof_fr @nitot tous mes voeux. Avec plaisir, nous avons besoin de toi pour monter un #indiewebcamp Paris (agenda #silo sur http://doodle.com/xtof) (twitter.com/_/status/425900540602482688)
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notizblog.org edited /WordPress (+43) "changed page structure" (view diff)
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notizblog.org edited /WordPress (+2) "fixed headline" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks "@wef: This is your #data. You need to own it. - @Benioff @salesforce #wef14 #digitalcontext http://t.co/6JnNGbrGqq" #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/425913208537231360)
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notizblog.org edited /WordPress (+228) "more details about the webmention plugin" (view diff)
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notizblog.org edited /WordPress (+291) "more details about the Semantic Linkbacks plugin" (view diff)
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notizblog.org uploaded /File:semantic-linkbacks.png "An example output of the Semantic Linkbacks WordPress plugin"
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Jeena hm, Twitter doesn't allow hotlinking of the avatar images? https://jeena.net/t/twitter-img-test.html
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acegiak pfefferle: you've been doing awesome work with the semantic linkbacks plugin!
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pfefferle acegiak thanks :)
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pfefferle Jeena I see your image...
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Jeena ok found something http://usedmonkey.com/2013/10/fix-twitter-broken-avatars-in-firefox/
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pfefferle Jeena ah ok, using safari...
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Jeena it seems to be a firefox bug
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pfefferle are you using the latest version?
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pfefferle seems to work in my firefox...
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Jeena version 26.0
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Jeena and it says Firefox is up to date
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pfefferle me too...
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pfefferle hmmm
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pfefferle are there differences between OSes?
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Jeena your firefox doesn't show it either?
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Jeena I'm on OS X, will check it on linux
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pfefferle it shows it without problems
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pfefferle im on osx too
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Jeena in safari and firefox?
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pfefferle both
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Jeena Hm on my linux it doesn't show up either in firefox, but I am synchronizing everything so it could be something I did to firefox
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Jeena ah it works in safemode
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Jeena ok it is one of the addons
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Jeena aah I think I know, I have some addons which prevent twitter/facebook etc. to load content
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Jeena it was the Disconnect addon
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pfefferle :)
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Jeena I added <img onerror="setDefaultAvatar(this)" src="..."> for people like me so the page isn't just broken
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Jeena Now with webmentions from microformats! https://jeena.net/notes/12 there is still a bug which I need to fix but it is starting to look good :)
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jonnybarnes looks good Jeena
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jonnybarnes though 'd have a preference myself for the mentions to be in descending chronological order
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@BarnabyWalters @jeena great work getting #indieweb comments working! (http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4UCF8Y/) (twitter.com/_/status/426008498523348992)
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Jeena oh you're right!
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Jeena I will fix it
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barnabywalters great work! my mention doesn’t seem to have shown up though
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jonnybarnes the homepage says there's 3 mentions
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jonnybarnes but the note only shows two
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barnabywalters I would recommend not having a hidden name for notes, but instead just using the note content as the name
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barnabywalters that way it’s easy to tell whether or not the name should be shown
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barnabywalters ah yep, I force-reloaded and the comment is there
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jonnybarnes why is barnabywalters reply shown twice?
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jonnybarnes on bold and blue?
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Jeena that is the bug I was talking about
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jonnybarnes ah, do you know where the bug is in your code?
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Jeena yes
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barnabywalters Jeena: what microformats parser are you using? the G5 one?
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Jeena yes
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barnabywalters oh cool
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jonnybarnes G5 one?
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Jeena the problem is that I am using entry.name for the title and then entry.summary or if it is empty then the first 256 chars from entry.content
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: G5 is the name of a ruby microformats2 parser
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Jeena for notes and tweets those are the same
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Jeena so I need just to not save it twice
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Jeena but I need to check if they are the same, the problem is that it looks the same but content has had a link-tag in it
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Jeena and after strip_tags there is one additional space so I can't just do == :-p
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barnabywalters Jeena: I’m not sure if G5 has been updated to use the new e-* parsing rules
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Jeena I have no idea either
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barnabywalters with the new rules you can get both the plaintext (p-* equivalent) and HTML contents of e-* properties
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barnabywalters and then you can compare p-name with e-content['value']
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Jeena I see
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Jeena sadly there is no documentation for it
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Jeena so I even had to ask how to get the author
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Jeena and it was author.format.name which is uhm weird ^^
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barnabywalters hm — you should be able to get the canonical microformats2 JSON-like structure out of the parser
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Jeena but the Barnaby comment is a real webmention, not a twitter thing as far as I can see?
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barnabywalters but it’s not clear how to do that either
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barnabywalters Jeena: yep, that’s a native taproot HTML+microformats+webmention comment :)
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Jeena nice, but I assume bridgy will push the one you send to twitter too? ^^
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barnabywalters yep
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barnabywalters we need to figure out how to deal with that
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Jeena yeah
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jonnybarnes i was thinking about that? if too indieweb+webmention enabled sites are "talking" to each other, does that content need to be syndicated to twitter?
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barnabywalters comparing the u-url just as you would for updating a native webmention should prevent duplicate comments, but might replace the higher resolution native content with truncated/lower resolution content from twitter
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Jeena for now I will just remove the second one manually
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: ideally not, but POSSE is about social back-compatibility, i.e. letting friends still on silos communicate with you
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Jeena but the twitter one has a different u-url then the webmentions?
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: absolutely, but your not communicating with someone still on the twitter silo
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barnabywalters Jeena: I *think* bridgy discovers original posts and uses that as the u-url
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barnabywalters but that might not be the case — snarfed?
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snarfed reads logs
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pfefferle barnabywalters... not the original post url but the twitter-post url
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: no, but it allows people who still *are* using twitter to see the conversation and join in
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snarfed correct, bridgy does original post discovery and uses that as the u-url
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barnabywalters instead of having “indieweb” conversations and “twitter” conversations, the two become the same thing
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snarfed sorry, it uses the original post links as targets of u-in-reply-to, u-like, etc
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barnabywalters with the higher-quality copy on the indieweb :)
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Jeena oh that is cool, then what barnabywalters said should work
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aaronpk bret: I used to keep the list of webmention URLs in the front matter, but that got to be too much trouble. more info here: https://github.com/aaronpk/p3k/issues/13
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Jeena or it should already word on my page because I don't allow overwrites yet ^^
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pfefferle snarfed but these are not the original post url aren't they?
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snarfed nice work jeena! esp the pictures, i was surprised by how much impact comment author pictures had on me
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snarfed pfefferle: correct, they're not. it would be nice if they were. i'd need to fetch links, parse mf2, and look for rel="syndication", but it's definitely doable
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snarfed i think it's filed as a bridgy issue
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Jeena yeah one really recognizes faces/avatars way faster then text
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snarfed yup, https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/6
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barnabywalters avatars also make convenient punctuation, making it immediately obvious where one comment ends and another starts
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Jeena true
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barnabywalters reducing the need for other visual noise doing the same thing, e.g. lines
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barnabywalters Jeena: your comment styling is an excellent example of that!
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barnabywalters lovely and clean
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snarfed agreed
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Jeena but I still need to figure out the whole topic/excerpt vs. just content thing.
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Jeena I was thinking title/excerpt
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Jeena because normally if you write a blogpost then you have a title and then your teaser/content
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Jeena and I would like to show both in some way
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Jeena but with notes there is not title hm
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pfefferle i think most of us here are writing replys without titles
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pfefferle i also started to show the content only for "real" replies
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Jeena yeah for short replies that is the right thing to do
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barnabywalters yep, not sure I’ve ever seen an example in the wild of an article with name, summary and content with an explicit in-reply-to
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pfefferle all other feedback formats are displayed like that http://notizblog.org/2014/01/16/bridgy-webmentions-fuer-twitter-und-facebook/#comments
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snarfed damn. embarrassing. my h-card photo didn't make it through in my reply to jeena. probably my fault.
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Jeena but take a look at https://jeena.net/people-first I mention tanteks article with a big article on my page
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barnabywalters snarfed: the URL for that comment just leads to snarfed.org
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barnabywalters Jeena: without an explicit in-reply-to, that’s a mention rather than a reply
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barnabywalters I display mentions differently to replies, to show that they exist without breaking real reply conversations up
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snarfed barnabywalters: yup. original reply is http://snarfed.org/2014-01-22_note-from-2014-01-21-203337-utc-jeena-net . no time to debug now but i may look later.
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snarfed gotta run. keep up the good work all!
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barnabywalters trying to find an example…
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Jeena I see
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barnabywalters Jeena: e.g. the last two responses to this note: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4QbH5C/
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barnabywalters they’re both longer articles which just mention that note, instead of being actual replies to it
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Jeena ah hehe snarfreds webmention went through because I forgot to uncomment validate :link_to_target_present, on: :save
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barnabywalters so I show the name/content, truncated and de-emphasised
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aaronpk Jeena: my site didn't find your webmention endpoint just now
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Jeena I assume you don't look into the HTTP Header?
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aaronpk oh no it's probably the SSL thing
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aaronpk yeah I do look at the header.
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Jeena hm, but didn't we fix it?
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Jeena the SSL thing
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aaronpk we fixed something
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Jeena I added stuff to the nginx conf so the error would go away
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Jeena but yeah, barnabywalters, I understand what you mean with the two different types.
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aaronpk fyi I use this webmention client https://github.com/indieweb/mention-client-php which has a solid test suite, so if ever an endpoint isn't picked up, we can add tests there
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aaronpk barnabywalters: that is awesome that you display mentions differently! I like your take on it
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pfefferle perhaps this bug https://github.com/indieweb/mention-client-php/issues/4
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barnabywalters aaronpk: thanks!
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barnabywalters I had some other ideas for domain-specific types of mentions which I’d like to implement
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aaronpk yeah so my server for some reason hate's jeena's ssl cert. my site doesn't fetch the reply context and can't find the webmention endpoint (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/01/22/1/) and the mf2 parser also wants nothing to do with it (http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjeena.net%2Fnotes%2F12)
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Jeena Hm I am using Link: <https://jeena.net/webmentions>
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Jeena rel="webmention" not rel="http://webmention.org/"
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pfefferle aaronpk i added a lot of extra stuff to parse them exactly
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barnabywalters e.g. an audio post recording of, e.g. http://waterpigs.co.uk/music/lights-in-the-sky/ could be parsed and shown as an audio element
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aaronpk Jeena: that should be fine, I have tests for both I believe
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Jeena which one is the right one?
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aaronpk rel=webmention
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Jeena ok
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pfefferle aaronpk can you try the webmention discovery with http://notizblog.org/ ???
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Jeena barnabywalters how do you distinguish between a blogpost and a note?
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barnabywalters Jeena: in practise the question is usually “should I display the name”, which I’ve found to be answered by:
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barnabywalters 1: is the name longer than the content? if so don’t display the name
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barnabywalters 2: does the content begin with the name? if so don’t display the name
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pfefferle barnabywalters name == title?
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barnabywalters pfefferle: I’m talking about microformats2 name
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aaronpk barnabywalters: that seems reasonable, maybe add your notes here? http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation
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aaronpk "title" isn't really a thing
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barnabywalters but basically yes, “titles” are names
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pfefferle ok
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barnabywalters IIRC tantek and I reached the rough consensus in #microformats a while back that “name” is the best semantic to use for the inherent, abstract name of a thing, whereas “title” refers a physical rendering of a name
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barnabywalters e.g. a book has a name, but the thing printed on the front of the book is it’s title
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barnabywalters but title is also confusing in some contexts, e.g. a person might have a name and an honorary title
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barnabywalters so name is the most portable semantic for “short-ish text string naming this thing”
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cweiske aaronpk, https://github.com/pear/HTTP2/blob/master/tests/parseLinks_real.phpt
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cweiske but that is not multiple-per-line
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aaronpk hah I didn't realize we're in a PEAR module
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barnabywalters aaronpk: new claim to fame ;)
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cweiske I use the HTTP2 package in my linkback library
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barnabywalters cweiske: that’s an interesting looking testing format — is that documented somewhere?
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cweiske it's called PHPT
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cweiske php itself uses it for its unit tests
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cweiske some pear package use it
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cweiske http://qa.php.net/write-test.php
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cweiske http://qa.php.net/phpt_details.php
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cweiske each tests gets run in a separate php process
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cweiske which makes it kinda slow
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cweiske but it's ideal for e.g. testing file uploads
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barnabywalters and phpunit runs them?
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barnabywalters cool, never come across that before
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cweiske no, phpunit does not
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cweiske although
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cweiske I once built an adapter
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cweiske and it's included in phpunit core
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cweiske it relies on your pear installation for running them
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cweiske php itself has its own implementation
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cweiske http://git.php.net/?p=php-src.git;a=blob;f=run-tests.php;h=cd6038e9b14b72e20e3f20b841620e997f0b2d55;hb=HEAD
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cweiske php core test: http://git.php.net/?p=php-src.git;a=blob;f=tests/basic/rfc1867_malicious_input.phpt;h=40b43d277f9c49154baa318792f1719f4e119b4f;hb=HEAD
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cweiske if you want to run them from php, use PHPUnit_Extensions_PhptTestCase
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pfefferle barnabywalters aaronpk do you use the reply context only (as the name says) for replies or also for likes, favs, ...???
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aaronpk reply context refers to displaying the thing your post is in reply to
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aaronpk e.g. usually rendered above your post
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pfefferle ok, but only replys
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pfefferle not likes or other stuff we discussed here...
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aaronpk oh you mean if your post is a "like", then what do you show?
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aaronpk I haven't gotten that far, so I can't really speak to that :)
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pfefferle p-like h-cite of the page you like ;)
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barnabywalters I think when I implement likes they’re going to extremely compact in display — just a single line with a star, an inline author h-card and the name/truncated content of the thing I liked
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barnabywalters most silos don’t even show likes in streams (except Facebook, occasionally) or give them their own URLs
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aaronpk i think i'm gonna wait til barnabywalters implements it so i can copy from him :)
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barnabywalters which opens up a bunch of weird possibilities, e.g. likes of likes or replies to likes…
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barnabywalters reposts of likes?
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aaronpk oh dear
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cweiske "do you really like that someone died?"
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barnabywalters aaronpk: exactly
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pfefferle ok
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pfefferle then I start with comments
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pfefferle replies
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pfefferle my "consumer" on the other hand supports different comment types now http://indiewebcamp.com/File:semantic-linkbacks.png
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aaronpk very cool!
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pfefferle and also the reply context
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pfefferle a lot of array iteration stuff :)
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barnabywalters pfefferle: great!
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pfefferle aaronpk barnabywalter thanks :)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/425137234367369216/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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@benwerd Thanks to everyone who came to RockIT last night! Great questions & ideas about #indieweb. I had fun. (twitter.com/_/status/426032703238975488)
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bret http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/11.0a2/auroranotes/ XMLHttpRequest now supports HTML parsing in Aurora. Way cool!
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Jeena github shoule implement webmentions!
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barnabywalters Jeena: that would be pretty cool :)
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barnabywalters aaronpk and I have both POSSEd github issue comments
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Jeena oh hehe really? cool
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Jeena hm there is the problem with https websites like mine which just hotlink images from other pages which are not https, the users will always see a warning
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aaronpk indeed
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aaronpk you could make an image proxy URL on your site
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Jeena hm, true
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jonnybarnes I want to try and do that for OSM's nominatim service
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aaronpk I am planing to do that as well, so that I can continue to serve URLs that don't exist anymore
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jonnybarnes just need to work out how
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aaronpk since people change their twitter profile picture then twitter deletes the old image
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Jeena yeah that is a problem too
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aaronpk most of my notes on how I plan to do that are here http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieArchive
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snarfed re changing twitter profile pictures, i have to admit, i kinda blame twitter for that
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snarfed fb handled it really well with a long-lived url that always redirects to the current profile pic
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snarfed e.g. http://graph.facebook.com/snarfed.org/picture
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aaronpk i agree, but the problem is still that in practice, URLs do change
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snarfed iirc g+ too
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snarfed oh in generally, definitely
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snarfed indie archive is still a worthy goal
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snarfed sorry, i was ratholing :P
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KevinMarks A while back Joe stump built a cache for twitter images: http://techcrunch.com/2009/09/28/tweetimag-es-an-end-to-broken-twitter-avatars/ - it's dead now
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aaronpk ironic
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tantek ironic? it's ok for caches to die ;)
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KevinMarks ironic given the title
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tantek ah yes
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brianloveswords tantek: re: IndieWebCamp NYC, Mozilla events sponsorship people got back to me, they said they will be reviewing my sponsorship request on Friday and will let me know what they're thinking!
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tantek brianloveswords - great!
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brianloveswords tantek: depending on what they say/how much they're willing to contribute, I'll also reach out to GitHub (https://community.github.com/) and some other orgs that've sponsored BrooklynJS in the past.
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tantek that would be great
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@GreenPirate_org @yokalli Haven't tried this yet. https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2-shim (twitter.com/_/status/426065526909988864)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+0) "move event to recent" (view diff)
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@yokalli RT @GreenPirate_org: @yokalli Haven't tried this yet. https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2-shim (twitter.com/_/status/426066193347543040)
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tantek.com edited /Events (-30) "unbold the non-camp events so it's easier to find the camps (upcoming and past), which typically have a lot more content/attendees than the other events" (view diff)
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tantek hey WordPress users - we have the list of plugins: http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress#Plugins but we don't really say what you need to do to actually achieve the functionality that say you indiewebify.me tests for
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tantek Seems like this is an area that we could use some help with the WordPress page
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Jeena does someone here use WordPress?
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tantek e.g. here's a concrete question: What do I need to add/configure in a default WordPress install to achieve IndieMark level 1? http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieMark#Level_1 (repeat for level n)
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snarfed yup! plenty of us
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tantek Jeena - http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress#People_using_WordPress :)
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snarfed tantek: agreed, we should improve that page
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Jeena hehe you have a link to the wiki for everything ^^
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snarfed easier than re-typing the answer every time :P
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Jeena hehe yeah
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tantek I don't remember if I shared this article here or not, specifically in the context of "social media break" really meaning "social silo break" http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/jun/14/neil-gaiman-social-media-sabbatical
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tantek note that Neil has said he'll continue to post on his own indie site
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wagle comparison of disk drive reliability going around: http://blog.backblaze.com/2014/01/21/what-hard-drive-should-i-buy/
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tantek which means he's not really taking a social media break
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tantek more like a social silo break - but no one really seemed to want to point that out - like it would awkwardly critique the silos or something
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tantek wondering where to capture such "breaks" like this - as it does seem relevant to the IndieWeb. Thoughts?
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tantek hey tommorris - I don't think anyone else understands what the scope / intent of this page is - it could use some clarification from you if you think it is still (potentially) useful: http://indiewebcamp.com/reading-list
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snarfed tantek: sounds like a good new wiki page
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tantek snarfed - except the maintenance cognitive load is too high for it to be sustainable
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tantek IMO.
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Jeena I'm still hoping we will have some kind of a reader for notes without the need to visit every page ever couple of hours
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snarfed a list of people who have taken social media/silo breaks wouldn't be sustainable?
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etymancer silobattical
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Loqi etymancer: caseorganic left you a message 3 days, 1 hour ago: thank you for letting me know! fixed.
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tantek Jeena - yes, you can start working on one (or add your thoughts here) http://indiewebcamp.com/reader#Indieweb_perspective
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tantek snarfed - no we have that sort of here: http://indiewebcamp.com/silo-quits
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Jeena I think I will
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Jeena tantek you need to teach Loqi do post those links :D
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Loqi grins profusely
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snarfed right. it sounded like you were just suggesting a similar list of silo "breaks," as opposed to "quits"
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tantek snarfed, I meant /reading-list - maintenance cognitive load is too high for it to be sustainable IMO.
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snarfed which sounds like a worthy addition
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tantek yeah I think I may add a subsection or maybe just expand the page scope
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snarfed silo-binges is another possible section, e.g. http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/15/starting-the-digital-retox/
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tantek.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+17) "see also silo quits" (view diff)
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snarfed funny idea, if silly. sadly he never wrote up his conclusions. i pestered him a couple times and he claimed he would, but no. ah well.
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tantek snarfed, isn't that the problem with social media, that it keeps you (the in general you) too distracted to actually get to the things you claimed you would do?
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snarfed :P that can definitely be a problem with social media, yes
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tantek.com created /Posts_about_the_indie_web (+38) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /silo-quits (+1826) "Neil Gaiman social media break, expand silo quits scope to include stated temporary quits (breaks), better dfn" (view diff)
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KevinMarks o/ for being too distracted by social media
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tantek whoever is working on the indie reader problem, please consider the problem of social media distraction (which seems to come more from the reading side than the writing side)
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KevinMarks social silos as diseases: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1401.4208v1.pdf
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tantek http://tantek.com/2013/305/t2/pdf-dr-avoid-clicking-link-pdf
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KevinMarks OK then http://business.time.com/2014/01/21/facebook-is-about-to-lose-80-of-its-users-study-says/
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aaronpk that is one of the reasons I have not prioritized the reader for myself, because I have better luck reading social media by searching for hashtags (results piped to IRC) and having other people send me things :)
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tommorris tantek: it is meant to contain a community curated list of posts on the subject of the indie web itself so interested people can read community perspectives on what we are doing
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tommorris gets back to Disneyland queuing. ;)
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tantek tommorris - none of that is clear from the name nor content of the page
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snarfed heh. losing the % in that time.com URL makes for a funny misinterpretation
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tantek lol
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tommorris Be bold and [edit], tantek. :)
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tantek tommorris - I do, but rather than curate, just add to the "posts about the indie web" page.
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tommorris Feel free to merge and redirect
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tantek can't see/feel the value in the reading-list page I guess and just wanted to see if you tommorris wanted to attempt to get more interest in it or not
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KevinMarks http://www.hubspot.com/blog-topic-generator?__hstc=20629287.d6e1c5b819a431e323db09a7a92fddd3.1387492286516.1389291433498.1390419816220.3&__hssc=20629287.1.1390419816220&__hsfp=314696658#/indieweb/silos/webmention
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tantek.com edited /feed_reader (+546) "/* Challenges */ subheads: overload, distraction, outdo search" (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks that is HILARIOUS
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tantek I got:
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tantek 1 Why We Love IndieWeb (And You Should, Too!)
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tantek 2 What Will silos Be Like in 100 Years?
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tantek 3 10 Things Your Competitors Can Teach You About microformats
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tantek 4 Miley Cyrus and IndieWeb: 10 Surprising Things They Have in Common
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tantek 5 20 Myths About silos
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aaronpk LOL
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aaronpk and "14 Common Misconceptions About Silos"
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tantek let's see. For 1 we have /why
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tantek For 2, that's easy. dead.
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tantek for 3, add microformats, do better in search results (hint: your competitors already are)
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tantek 4 may take some research
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KevinMarks that will be interesting research
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tantek well Miley does have her own Geocities-esque designed indie website: http://www.mileycyrus.com/ - but that's not "surprising" I suppose.
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Jeena is that really true that search engines derrive semantics from microformats?
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tantek Jeena - they did before any other explicit method
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tantek before rdfa/microdata etc.
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tantek rel values have been parsed by search engines since at least 2004
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Jeena interesting
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andysylvester.com edited /events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (+84) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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Jeena ok yeah but that is just HTML, not microformats isn't it?
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Jeena like meta description, etc.
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tantek microformats is "just HTML"
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tantek specific rel and class names
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Jeena ok I see
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tantek not sure there is any "etc." there btw. "description" might be the only meta name that search engines in general (across implementations) pay attention to. maybe meta robots-*
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tantek keywords was abandoned long ago
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andysylvester.com edited /User:Andysylvester.com (+151) "/* Projects */" (view diff)
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andysylvester.com edited /User:Andysylvester.com (+8) "/* Bio */" (view diff)
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Jeena I've always had a teaser field in my blogs and always added this teaser to the description-meta and it really looks cool when you search for something and you get the title and the teaser as a result
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tantek right. I think that's why that one meta stuck around.
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KevinMarks right, the same dynamic of it providing value somewhere that we originally did wth rel-tag
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tantek.com edited /Facebook (+554) "/* Articles */ add 80% drop prediction, and Barnaby's call to self-action" (view diff)
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@Johannes_Ernst Hello #IndieWeb @t made me do this - http://upon2020.com/banter/2014/01/22/hello-indieweb-t-made-me-do-this/ (twitter.com/_/status/426120872840421376)
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tantek lol
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tantek nicely done j12t :)
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j12t tantek: Installation fully automated through cldstr.com: https://cldstr.com/cldstr.com/wordpress to install Wordpress, then add the respective Wordpress plugin right from there. No shell required :-) Automatic updates.
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Jeena I'm on the train to Gothenburg and tomorrow morning first thing I'll by flying to germany for a little vaccation, wohoo!
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snarfed enjoy!
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tantek j12t - that sounds like a really clever way to use wordpress - could you add a brief subsection about it to http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress ?
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tantek Jeena - have a wonderful vacation and once again well done with what you got working over the weekend!
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j12t I'm having more IndieAuth difficulties on indiewebcamp.com. I clicked on "Re-Scan", which correctly lists the three rel="me" items I have on the page. It says Facebook and LinkedIn aren't supported, which is fine, but it produces an incomprehensible error about Twitter. http vs https and /@name vs /name makes no difference.
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aaronpk the error is probably that your site links to http://twitter.com instead of https
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j12t I tried both ways
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tantek j12t: http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth#Why_is_Twitter_not_working
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j12t tantek I know, but that's not it
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aaronpk what is this? https://twitter.com/@Johannes_Ernst I've never seen that before
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Loqi this is awesome
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j12t I was just playing with different variations
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aaronpk I didn't realize twitter served profile pages with the "@"
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j12t removed @ again
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aaronpk it's having SSL issues
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aaronpk i still don't understand why
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aaronpk "SSL_connect returned=1 errno=0 state=SSLv3 read finished A: unexpected message" trying to get to https://twitter.com
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j12t what are you running as a client?
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aaronpk this is the ruby twitter client gem
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aaronpk but it also happens from my php code on the same server
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j12t old curl library?
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aaronpk well it worked until recently
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j12t maybe it recently reached retirement age :-)
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aaronpk heh
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j12t can you run a curl from the command-line and see whether it does the same thing?
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aaronpk it works from the command line
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j12t my bet would be that the curl executable is more recent than lib curl or whatever it is called
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aaronpk weird, it works fine with httpclient from ruby
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j12t I'm not a Ruby guy, so I don't know ... is there some way of printing out library version info like phpinfo()?
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aaronpk j12t: I can sign in to indieauth with twitter right now, can you try again?
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aaronpk bret: http://osrc.dfm.io/aaronpk "It seems like Aaron is—or should be—friends with Bret Comnes."