#indiewebcamp 2014-01-30

2014-01-30 UTC
npdoty and pfenwick joined the channel
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@t much #IndieWeb Bridgy & #IndieAuth progress! Come to 6:30pm Homebrew Website Club in SF & Portland TONIGHT: http://tantek.com/2014/029/t1/indieweb-progress-bridgy-indieauth-homebrew-tonight (twitter.com/_/status/428686180717445120)
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@aral RT @t: much #IndieWeb Bridgy & #IndieAuth progress! Come to 6:30pm Homebrew Website Club in SF & Portland TONIGHT: http://tantek.com/2014/029/t1/indieweb-progress-bridgy-indieauth-homebrew-tonight (twitter.com/_/status/428686351459176448)
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@snarfed_org RT @t: much #IndieWeb Bridgy & #IndieAuth progress! Come to 6:30pm Homebrew Website Club in SF & Portland TONIGHT: http://tantek.com/2014/029/t1/indieweb-progress-bridgy-indieauth-homebrew-tonight (twitter.com/_/status/428686889642496000)
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aaronpk dietrich: you at mozsf already? I'm next door at whole foods
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@benwerd Want to own your own site & data? There's still time to go to Homebrew Website Club in SF or PDX: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/428707237754699776)
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@evanpro RT @benwerd: Want to own your own site & data? There's still time to go to Homebrew Website Club in SF or PDX: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/428707386258632705)
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snarfed1 aaronpk, dietrich: joining the vidyo soon
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snarfed1 er, right after i fix my nick
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bret See everyone at mozpdx in a few :)
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dietrich snarfed: we're live
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snarfed great! us too. switching irc to phone
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aaronpk snarfed: can you hear us?
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aaronpk we see your giant face
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snarfed not yet
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snarfed ok. working on it
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aaronpk do you have a bad wifi connection or something? the video keeps stopping
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snarfed hrm sorry
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snarfed video is ok for us, but no audio yet
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aaronpk our audio?
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snarfed yeah. and you can't hear us?
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aaronpk I can hear you just fine
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dietrich snarfed: can you hear us in pdx?
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dietrich snarfed: we hear you a-ok
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snarfed any vidyo experts have any suggestions?
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aaronpk i don't know what the problem is?
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KevinMarks evening
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dietrich we're testing our audio - let us know when you can hear us
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aaronpk Kevinmarks: can you hear us?
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KevinMarks no, we can't hear you
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dietrich we can hear SF just fine
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dietrich snarfed: we confirmed our audio working, might be audio out on your end
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snarfed ok, end to end seems happy
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KevinMarks working now
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bret snarfed: can you hear us?
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bret snarfed1: can you hear us?
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snarfed yup.you can't hear us?
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bret snarfed is doing introductions
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @snarfed_org: the way we interact with people falls into silos, walled gardens and we want to bring interactivity back to the web (twitter.com/_/status/428718637802078208)
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dietrich maybe next time we do audio conference call, and just use vidyo with no audio.
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bret we should try something, yeah, audio is painful here
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @snarfed_org: the first part of Homebrew Website Club is Random Access - everyone talks to the group, then peer to peer (twitter.com/_/status/428718792118902784)
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aaronpk snarfed: don't forget to mention IRC!
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Loqi yea
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snarfed yup!
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benwerd Audio is coming in and out from PDX
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bret we are getting an echo
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dietrich snarfed: turn on echo cancellation in your vidyo client
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j12t get close to the mic
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dietrich ?
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j12t yes
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sparverius so
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sparverius we turned off our mic
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KevinMarks we also muted this end
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sparverius and that seemed to fix
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bret aaronpk is working on indiauth and micropub
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bret so that he can use apps that others have written to post onto his site
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j12t hey aaronpk thanks for fixing the #IndieAuth SSL issue
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bret extending oath in order to enable micropub
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aaronpk dietrich: metafluff.com
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aaronpk has been playing with the nike+ API to pull data out
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aaronpk has been playing with cloud9 for running nodejs apps
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upon2020.com edited /events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (+87) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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aaronpk benjaminchait.net:
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aaronpk recently moved to portland, saw the futuretalk by caseorganic a couple weeks ago and wanted to check out the group
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aaronpk andysylvester.com
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aaronpk barely getting started, coming at it from the user perspective, learning how to set up the indieweb components on wordpress. made a video on setting up webmention
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aaronpk bret.io
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sparverius we cant see you bret
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aaronpk student at PSU, running a jekyll website. working on re-implementing a lot of it in node
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dietrich sparverius: he's showing up fine in the selfview here, hmmm
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aaronpk Poet - takes a jekyll website, loads into memory and serves it, so may switch to running that
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aaronpk perrywagle (IRC: wagle) interested in long-term storage of old photos
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sparverius dietrich: we're only seeing half of the speakers lol. i guess we're cropping
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aaronpk has a bunch of photos and wants to scan them in and have them last a hundred years. copying to new media, etc
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KevinMarks how do I spell weigel
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benwerd Wagle
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aaronpk wagle
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bret sparverius: should I pan up?
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benwerd Ben O'Steen at the University of Oxford was doing some great work on digital resource preservation
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bret thats everyone!
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sparverius you should join #archiveteam if you're into long term storage
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KevinMarks [realising noterlive needs hCard import from website as well as twitter]
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sparverius err
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sparverius #archiveteam-bs
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KevinMarks wagle isn't in http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC_People
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sparverius the main channel is for AT discussion only
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Loqi definitely
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aaronpk can someone in SF take notes in IRC?
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aaronpk i'll try too, but usually works better from the main location
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benwerd snarfed loves doing stuff on his own website
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benwerd most of his friends are non-technical, so he meets them where they are
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aaronpk: if you're not in the IRC channel for indiewebcamp, http://irc.freenode.net #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/428719342864576513)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aaronpk: I've been working on micropub and indieauth to post on my site using other people's UI (twitter.com/_/status/428719453153816576)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @dietrich: I've at http://metafluff.com Cloud9 makes editing and running node easy without your own server (twitter.com/_/status/428719744532111361)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benjaminchait: I just moved to portland, I'm at http://benjaminchait.net and fascinated by the indieweb idea (twitter.com/_/status/428719968814120960)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @bretolius: I'm getting distracted by a project called Poet that takes a Jekyll website, loads it into RAM and serves it (twitter.com/_/status/428720383819513856)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @snarfed_org: I love doing stuff on my own website, but I need ot meet friends where they are (twitter.com/_/status/428720921801916416)
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sparverius snarfed did bridgy
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benwerd snarfed has been working on brid.gy which sends webmention replies to your site from third-party silos like facebook
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aaronpk recently got event RSVPs working in bridgy
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @snarfed_org: I work on brid.gy, which sends likes, favorites and retweets back to your indieweb site from fb/twitter (twitter.com/_/status/428721079440658432)
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aaronpk thinking about how to do semi-public posts, and connect with silos
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benwerd he's been thinking about how to do private or semi-public posts with respect to POSSEs and webmentions
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aaronpk how we make that works seamlessly
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benwerd (ceding to aaronpk because he's much faster)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @snarfed_org: also thinking about private or semi-public posts, to do messaging. That's still hard (twitter.com/_/status/428721190396788736)
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aaronpk leahculver:
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aaronpk benwerd: she's harder to hear, you might need to type
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @leahculver: I'm interested in mobile stuff, so maybe I came to the wrong meetup (twitter.com/_/status/428721282646282241)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @leahculver: everything is walled gardens, and the overhead to make an app is too high (twitter.com/_/status/428721335502921728)
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KevinMarks (if anyone can get me urls/twitter handles
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @IdentityWoman: I'm excited that more people are interested in how people manage their identity online (twitter.com/_/status/428721560464400384)
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snarfed I'll talk people to speak up
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@aaronpk @leahculver we should talk! I've been making #indieweb apps using #indieauth and #micropub (http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/01/29/1/indieweb-indieauth-micropub) (twitter.com/_/status/428721618345402368)
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aaronpk thanks!
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @IdentityWoman: openid connect is launching in a couple of weeks and we now aren't sure thta si what we were building (twitter.com/_/status/428721633990565889)
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bret maybe stand where snarfed was :) heard him great!
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@markmadsen RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @leahculver: everything is walled gardens, and the overhead to make an app is too high <apps are throwback to aol (twitter.com/_/status/428721673588994048)
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aaronpk benwerd: werd.io
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wagle-prime i'm here now
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bret :)
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aaronpk been building open source community platforms for a while now
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snarfed I'm right next to the mic :P
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@Halley RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @snarfed_org: I love doing stuff on my own website, but I need ot meet friends where they are (twitter.com/_/status/428721781537771521)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: I've been interested in open source community platforms for along time. I'm building a new one at idno.co (twitter.com/_/status/428721788739387392)
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aaronpk snarfed: if you think you might host more, I might ship you a mic for the conference table that plugs in to USB
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benwerd kevinmarks: I've been interested in social stuff for ages
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aaronpk snarfed: can't hear a thing from the far end of the room
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sparverius can i connect the video chat?
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benwerd kevinmarks: my own website is a bit of an apology at the moment
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benwerd kevinmarks: building noterlive, which he's using to livetweet, which dumps html that he can manually upload
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snarfed :( sorry guys. working on the Mic
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benwerd kevinmarks: also building an android twitter client that "behaves how twitter used to behave"
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aaronpk if someone connects from the other end of the room with a mic it might work
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sparverius aaronpk: uri?
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aaronpk dietrich: is looking for the link again
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benwerd kevinmarks: wants to add more non-twitter functionality
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benwerd let's you interact with the messages in an open way like you used to be able to when it came in as SMS messages
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dietrich https://v.mozilla.com/flex.html?roomdirect.html&key=4XVEWYmdRUqB
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KevinMarks noterlive.com
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aaronpk whoa that worked!
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bret :D
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KevinMarks and I need to post my android app to play
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bret oh noes
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bret it worked then stopped
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KevinMarks https://github.com/kevinmarks/nanotweeter
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snarfed damn ok.trying again
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sparverius oh i have a chromebook, im not getting into vidyo
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snarfed audio better again?
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benjaminchait Yup
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dietrich snarfed: yesss
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dietrich much
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snarfed damn, sorry sparverius
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snarfed good, sorry for the delay guys
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wagle-prime I will enter myself on the wiki/website when I have my album website going (just bought the disks before coming here)
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benwerd jernst: "what's the indieweb software that's ready to go, and what should be on it?" something like owncloud
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benwerd something like idno
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benwerd something like mediagoblin
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benwerd re: indiebox
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aaronpk andykmccoy
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aaronpk working on building home system for listening to arduinos
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benwerd evening tantek
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bret sounds way cool! is there a site associated with the adruino/raspi project?
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KevinMarks hm
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aaronpk (also what is his domain?)
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KevinMarks I think I may be in twitter jai;
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tantek reads the logs
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metafluff.com edited /events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (+88) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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tantek is stuck in SEA for 2+ more hours (than planned) :(
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KevinMarks andykmccoy.com
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KevinMarks sparverius: what was yout URL?
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sparverius KevinMarks: 4c4d.com
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sparverius it's hard to say out loud, lol
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sparverius people always get it wrong :/
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@IdentityWoman RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @IdentityWoman: openid connect is launching in a couple of weeks and we now aren't sure thta si what we were buil… (twitter.com/_/status/428723322306564096)
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@IdentityWoman RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @IdentityWoman: I'm excited that more people are interested in how people manage their identity online (twitter.com/_/status/428723337271836672)
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aaronpk wow great turnout tongiht!
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aaronpk snarfed: is that everyone from SF?
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benwerd that is all of us. now discussing @N
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aaronpk it might be a good idae to break up into SF/PDX because of the low link quality
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benwerd +1, will bring up in a moment
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snarfed all of us, yup. Will say so
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aaronpk snarfed: can you mute your mic? we'll leave the video on
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bret iwantmyname has 2 factor authentication for increased security against domain fraud
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wagle-prime cool
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aaronpk snarfed: can you mute?
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snarfed I muted, right? Will check again
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benjaminchait snarfed yup, thanks!
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@hol_wily RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @IdentityWoman: I'm excited that more people are interested in how people manage their identity online (twitter.com/_/status/428725630713466880)
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KevinMarks that thing where your website crashes while you're using it to livetweet
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KevinMarks :D
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tantek KevinMarks - awesome. Selfdogfooding FTW!
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tantek openid connect? people were/are still working on that?
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@aaronpk @veganstraightedge http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub It's basically an HTTP POST representation of a microformats document. (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/01/29/1/micropub) (twitter.com/_/status/428726542777081857)
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dietrich portland is doing an IRC client and perma-client overview
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tantek good to get more people on IRC!
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tantek (and off of email)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb Homebrew Website Club notes for tonight up at http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2014-01-29.html (twitter.com/_/status/428727755933360128)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb Homebrew Website Club notes for tonight up at http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2014-01-29.html (twitter.com/_/status/428727850985095168)
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tantek LOL at "Random Access - everyone talks to the group" - actually it's "Broadcast - people take turns speaking with the mic to the group" ;)
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wagle-prime yeah, except my irc-scrollback server aint letting me connect
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KevinMarks heh, I thought that sounded wrong
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@HilllGrace RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @snarfed_org: I work on brid.gy, which sends likes, favorites and retweets back to your indieweb site from fb/tw… (twitter.com/_/status/428728294121672704)
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bret aaronpk: talking about micropub
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tantek my indieweb achievement for the week was load testing Bridgy event invitations/RSVPs + Loqi webmention notifications :D
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Loqi woot!
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KevinMarks haha
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sparverius http://www.fcc.gov/guides/installing-consumer-owned-antennas-and-satellite-dishes
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tantek KevinMarks - how many folks made it to the SF meeting?
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tantek can you take a photo and upload it to https://indiewebcamp.com/Special:Upload ?
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tantek snarfed, dietrich ^^^
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KevinMarks ok
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tantek Historical note: "Random Access" is what HCC called the 2nd half of their meetings where people would go break off into small groups
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tantek "[Memory] Mapping" is what they called their first part where people stood up and said what they'd gotten working recently, or were interested in, or had a question about (mapping out the participants as it were by subject area)
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KevinMarks lets see how that works from my phone
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tantek KevinMarks - web uploads work from my iPod no problem
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kevinmarks.com uploaded /File:Hwcsf20140129.jpg "Homebrew Website Club SF 2014-01-29"
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KevinMarks so how do i embed that?
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kevinmarks.com edited /events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (+48) "/* Photos */ add group photo" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com edited /events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (+66) "/* Notes */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks the photo posting UI for the wiki needs help
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aaronpk haha
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aaronpk you can always hot-link photos from flickr or your own site
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KevinMarks defaulting to full size is rather funny, given how big photos are now
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tantek awesome!
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tantek need more SF RSVPs!
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club#RSVP
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:Hwcpdx20140129.jpg]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (+39) "pdx photo" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (+62) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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snarfed !tell tantek thanks for the terms clarification. should have done my homework! fortunately it's still going ok
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (+264) "add some SF RSVPs" (view diff)
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Loqi tantek: snarfed left you a message 4 minutes ago: thanks for the terms clarification. should have done my homework! fortunately it's still going ok
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tantek snarfed: Hence the smiley :) looks like it's going great!
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snarfed true!
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tantek In other news, boarded! Will "only" be 1hr later than expected.
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benwerd_ safe flight!
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tantek Thanks!
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tantek Great photo KevinMarks !
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tantek Oh the other indieweb thing I did in the past week - major update to the home page
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tantek indiewebcamp.com
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tantek If anyone is still at either meeting - would appreciate all feedback!
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aaronpk ah forgot about that, andysylvester just left but would have loved to get his feedback!
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@dietrich Homebrew Website Club at Mozilla Portland (and in SF too!). #indieweb https://twitter.com/dietrich/status/428738091755380737/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/428738091755380737)
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tantek-ipod Well if people felt it was seamless then I guess that's good :)
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snarfed we will tantek! Still actively talking here in sf
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tantek Great! Saw some new faces - would appreciate fresh look feedback.
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@hol_wily RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @leahculver: I'm interested in mobile stuff, so maybe I came to the wrong meetup (twitter.com/_/status/428741078934892544)
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tantek Huh? I hope benwerd showed leahculver all the awesome stuff he has working on mobile web idno
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bret were going over dropbox hax :D
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bret set your mac screenshots folder to dropbox
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KevinMarks they were chatting
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bret put your applications folder in bittorrent sync/dropbox
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@Wesley_Jensen_ RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @bretolius: I'm getting distracted by a project called Poet that takes a Jekyll website, loads it into RAM and se… (twitter.com/_/status/428741595887063040)
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KevinMarks I put my code in a google drive folder so its backed up before I git push it
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tantek Liftoff
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wagle-prime people really taking off now
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@aaronpk @kevinmarks @leahculver definitely not the wrong meetup! Check out this demo app I made that... #indieauth #micropub http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/01/29/2/micropub-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/428746043782483968)
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snarfed1 KevinMarks, benwerd, nick doty: https://github.com/snarfed/open-in-app
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snarfed1 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.snarfed.android.openinapp
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@Foxx_Shannon RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @leahculver: everything is walled gardens, and the overhead to make an app is too high (twitter.com/_/status/428749637408018432)
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@_LauraEvans_ RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb Homebrew Website Club notes for tonight up at http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2014-01-29.html (twitter.com/_/status/428750196135436288)
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@_DerekSnyder RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @leahculver: everything is walled gardens, and the overhead to make an app is too high (twitter.com/_/status/428753366089744384)
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@_KarlFisher RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @leahculver: everything is walled gardens, and the overhead to make an app is too high (twitter.com/_/status/428756143343927296)
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@HilllGrace RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @IdentityWoman: openid connect is launching in a couple of weeks and we now aren't sure thta si what we were buil… (twitter.com/_/status/428757840220938240)
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@RaymondLee85 RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @IdentityWoman: openid connect is launching in a couple of weeks and we now aren't sure thta si what we were buil… (twitter.com/_/status/428767086056574976)
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@dietrich @EnglishMossop no, but i like the idea of a homebrew brewing club... (it's actually http://indiewebcamp.com/ ) (twitter.com/_/status/428765814729105408)
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@Mattt_Richards RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @snarfed_org: the first part of Homebrew Website Club is Random Access - everyone talks to the group, then peer t… (twitter.com/_/status/428768339021037568)
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tantek Docked.
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@ozten RT @dietrich: Homebrew Website Club at Mozilla Portland (and in SF too!). #indieweb https://twitter.com/dietrich/status/428738091755380737/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/428770457806835712)
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@_KarlFisher RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @snarfed_org: the first part of Homebrew Website Club is Random Access - everyone talks to the group, then peer t… (twitter.com/_/status/428774880709206016)
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@JuliaSHanson RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @IdentityWoman: I'm excited that more people are interested in how people manage their identity online (twitter.com/_/status/428777344317546496)
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@Foxx_Shannon RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @IdentityWoman: I'm excited that more people are interested in how people manage their identity online (twitter.com/_/status/428777361799401472)
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snarfed !tell tantek welcome back!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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snarfed and great meeting tonight, all. thanks to everyone who came out!
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snarfed i'm throwing some quick notes onto http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club#Notes . feel free to add your own!
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@Marion_Jensen RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @leahculver: everything is walled gardens, and the overhead to make an app is too high (twitter.com/_/status/428780069751123968)
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@RaymondLee85 RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb Homebrew Website Club notes for tonight up at http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2014-01-29.html (twitter.com/_/status/428780778328432640)
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@RubyCampbelll RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @snarfed_org: I work on brid.gy, which sends likes, favorites and retweets back to your indieweb site from fb/tw… (twitter.com/_/status/428784460075896833)
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snarfed.org edited /events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (+2297) "SF Notes" (view diff)
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snarfed lots of really inspiring ideas. can't wait to start hacking on some of these! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club#SF_P2P_Section
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snarfed.org edited /events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (+47) "/* SF P2P Section */" (view diff)
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Loqi tantek: snarfed left you a message 36 minutes ago: welcome back!
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tantek thanks snarfed!
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@benwerd Another great evening at Homebrew Website Club. I'm once again feeling privileged to get to hang out with the #indieweb community. (twitter.com/_/status/428789950553657344)
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Jihaisse Hello
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@benwerd Friends asking me about a London chapter of Homebrew Website Club. Is there something close? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/428812705344925696)
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@Almudenai7pf7 RT @t: much #IndieWeb Bridgy & #IndieAuth progress! Come to 6:30pm Homebrew Website Club in SF & Portland TONIGHT: http://tantek.com/2014/029/t1/indieweb-progress-bridgy-indieauth-homebrew-tonight (twitter.com/_/status/428816088886157312)
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@Albina3xk7l RT @t: much #IndieWeb Bridgy & #IndieAuth progress! Come to 6:30pm Homebrew Website Club in SF & Portland TONIGHT: http://tantek.com/2014/029/t1/indieweb-progress-bridgy-indieauth-homebrew-tonight (twitter.com/_/status/428832875073769472)
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jonnybarnes !tell KevinMarks thanks for the homebrew website club notes
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jonnybarnes brain-storming, if I generate an OAuth token for my site to give to waterpigs.co.uk for example. What are some ways of storing the token on my end?
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cweiske database, be it mysql, postgres or sqlite
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cweiske session-like files
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cweiske with the token as filename
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: what both aaronpk and myself are doing is to not actually store the token
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cweiske one file with all in them, but that gives locking problems - so better a db
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barnabywalters but to make the token an encrypted JSON structure which gets passed around
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barnabywalters when a request comes in with the token, you try to decrypt it
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barnabywalters if it decrypts, it’s valid, otherwise it isn’t
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cweiske doesn't that make the tokens really long?
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barnabywalters cweiske: depends on how much data you encode. the ones we’re using are typically quite small
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barnabywalters certainly small enough to be passed around in POST request bodies with little latency
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barnabywalters it does make it more difficult to revoke tokens
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cweiske indeed
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barnabywalters e.g. you can’t easily run a “delete all tokens for this user before this date” query
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jonnybarnes yeah, when I asked aaronpk to test my login script that means somewhere on my VPS is a valid token that *I* could then theoretically use to post stuff to his site
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jonnybarnes if I could be arsed finding where laravel stores its session info
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jonnybarnes maybe its already encrypted though
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: I think laravel encrypts it’s cookies, but you have the key, so you can decrypt it
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barnabywalters that is one downside to this whole micropub thing — if one site is compromised, it potentially gives the attacker access to many sites
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jonnybarnes I might take this as an excuse to try out redis
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: redis is very cool. never used it as a cache or with PHP, but it’s pubsub stuff is really useful
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cweiske it's a key-value store
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cweiske but for your simple use case, a plain sqlite db should be enough, and needs much less setup
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barnabywalters in my experience redis requires almost no setup at all
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cweiske if you have redis running
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cweiske the typical lamp stack doesn't have that
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barnabywalters sure, but if you can install packages, the single command it takes to install and run redis is far less overhead than setting up tables in sqlite
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cweiske i.e. a single create statement?
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barnabywalters I still haven’t managed to memorise the syntax for create statements
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barnabywalters especially as it differs for each database
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barnabywalters whereas starting a redis process happens automatically when you install it
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@nxD4n let's dig into #webmentions and link backs http://nxd4n.nixekinder.be/webmention-and-semantic-link-back/ (twitter.com/_/status/428878270512123904)
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Loqi KevinMarks: jonnybarnes left you a message 2 hours, 56 minutes ago: thanks for the homebrew website club notes
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aaronpk It's worth pointing out that the issue barnabywalters points out is not new, it already exists with any oauth service like Facebook, twitter, etc
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barnabywalters aaronpk: oh absolutely
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aaronpk That's why a lot of these services make it really easy to see what apps you've authorized and revoke if needed
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barnabywalters but spreading keys around more just means that secure connections, trust and ability to revoke keys are more important
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aaronpk Yep
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aaronpk I think this really just makes existing issues more obvious
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aaronpk And it should encourage app developers to be stricter about handling security because of that
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aaronpk For example maybe a note posting interface doesn't actually need the token stored server side! Maybe it can store it in a client side cookie
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aaronpk Then there's no token to protect on the server, and you don't need to worry about even storing it anywhere
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aaronpk In fact we should probably encourage that as a pattern
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barnabywalters yep, that sounds like a good behaviour to encourage
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aaronpk Things that do need to store the tokens are apps that should be able to post when the user is not at their computer
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aaronpk For example an app that PESOS photos from Instagram or music from last.fm
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@amaury Moi j'aime les test http://nxd4n.nixekinder.be/webmention-and-semantic-link-back/ ( poke @nxD4n ) (twitter.com/_/status/428896969873195009)
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aaronpk When my server grants access tokens I might even choose to generate an access token that lasts only an hour when logging in to jonnybarnes app
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barnabywalters aaronpk: so you’d make offline-access a permission which would only need to be granted to certain apps?
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aaronpk Yeah!
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aaronpk Which brings up some interesting possibilities with the auth server
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barnabywalters that’d be a simpler UI than making the user specify timescales
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aaronpk Because some auth servers may not have the concept of offline access
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barnabywalters either the token gets stored in a cookie on the user’s machine, or you explicitly specify that an app needs offline access
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aaronpk You know how benwerd made that twitter oauth mockup a long time ago?
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aaronpk "Checkboxes bitches"
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barnabywalters I think I saw that, yes
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barnabywalters offline access could be an optional thing
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aaronpk Where the user could check or uncheck scopes they are granting to apps when logging in
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barnabywalters of course, you still have to trust the app that they really are storing the token in an encrypted cookie
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aaronpk That way all apps don't have to be immediately aware of all scopes from all auth servers
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aaronpk And eventually some scopes might grow more popular and so more auth servers would support them
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cweiske but imagine that you're using 5 services via tokens, but have 3 devices (home, work, mobile) to access the app that uses these services
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aaronpk Yep, you have to trust the app, which is reasonable because why else would you be using it. As long as you have a way to easily revoke apps then it's pretty safe
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cweiske you need to have login on every service on every device
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cweiske s/to have/to/
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Loqi cweiske meant to say: you need to login on every service on every device
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aaronpk cweiske there's no imagining necessary. You already do this with Facebook and twitter etc
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cweiske but cookie-stored tokens are a nuisance then
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aaronpk How is it different from storing a cookie with your login session to the device?
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cweiske I thought we talk about me->my app->[many services]
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aaronpk You have to store *something* on each device for each service
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cweiske no
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cweiske only a cookie for my app, but not for each service that my app uses
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tantek wow good morning #indiewebcamp!
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aaronpk This is not a new thing, this is really just OAuth. The new thing is applying OAuth to personal websites
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barnabywalters good morning tantek
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aaronpk So all the patterns you would have used for OAuth apply here
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aaronpk Good morning Tantek!
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aaronpk I am going to submit an OSCON proposal on this btw!
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aaronpk Still need a good name, I'm thinking "The Future of OAuth"
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cweiske I think we're talking past each other
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cweiske you said that tokens to services should be stored in the user's cookie
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cweiske but when web-based application needs to access 3rdparty services with the token stored in my cookie, I have to re-login to all services on every device
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cweiske even if I don't use them directly but through my webbased app
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aaronpk Yes. Because you need to log in to the third party service on each device anyway
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cweiske but if I do a normal oauth process, and my webapp stores the token, then I don't have to do it
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tantek Future of OAuth is good
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aaronpk And how would you log in? Hopefully with your IndieAuth server, not a unique user/pass for that service
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tantek or perhaps even The Present & Future of OAuth
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tantek since you are doing things *that work today*
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aaronpk tantek: good point!
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cweiske so why would I have to login to e.g. twitter on my phone, when my webapp already has the token that I once registered via my desktop?
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aaronpk How are you logging in to the web app on your phone?
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cweiske why does this matter?
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tantek aaronpk - perhaps a step by step user flow may help explain it better
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tantek along with a parallel attacker flow - to show where / why you need the login steps
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aaronpk brb
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tantek heh
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barnabywalters just fixed a bunch of bugs in my article posting flow, turns out nothing has been syndicating to twitter for a couple of days — hrm
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tantek funny that it took you days to notice, must not be caring as much about that silo ;)
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barnabywalters tantek: I wonder why no-one was replying, as some of them were actually phrased as explicit questions ;)
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barnabywalters s/wonder/did wonder
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: tantek: I did wonder why no-one was replying, as some of them were actually phrased as explicit questions ;)
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tantek good morning brianloveswords!
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brianloveswords Good morning tantek !
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@nxD4n @amaury merci, mais ton tweet devrait aparaître sur mon site :-( digging deeper http://nxd4n.nixekinder.be/webmention-and-semantic-link-back/ (twitter.com/_/status/428903749113761793)
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aaronpk I have to run!
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aaronpk Gotta go do things IRL
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@nxD4n @pfefferle any idea why this tweet is not #webmention https://twitter.com/amaury/status/428896969873195009 @amaury (twitter.com/_/status/428904441949863936)
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snarfed pfefferle: hi! saw your comment on the semantic-linkbacks bug
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snarfed oh, i understand now. closed comments, meaning, if the post is closed to comments
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pfefferle yes :)
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pfefferle have to improve my english skills a bit ;)
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snarfed no! closed is the right word. i was confused myself.
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snarfed your english is much much better than my german :P
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pfefferle that's possible :)
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@nxD4n @snarfed_org @pfefferle @amaury https://www.brid.gy/#twitter-nxD4n has some sent to http://nxd4n.nixekinder.be/webmention-and-semantic-link-back/ I'm lost (twitter.com/_/status/428917050052837376)
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Jihaisse pfefferle: what I can say in german : 2 mal bier bitte
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Jihaisse that can save a life
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pfefferle Jihaisse indeed :)
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Jihaisse ;)
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pfefferle Jihaisse deux bière s'il vous plaît
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Jihaisse oh yes !
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Jihaisse good game pfefferle
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pfefferle had french in school
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pfefferle loooong time ago!
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Jihaisse ;)
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Jihaisse I didn't learn german
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Jihaisse but I have a friend who lived near coburg
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Jihaisse he live now near stuttgart
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Jihaisse (yes, he works at porsche)
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pfefferle oh, thats not that far away from where i live
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Jihaisse I go there in february
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Jihaisse for he's birthday
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pfefferle party at porsche?
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Jihaisse :) no
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Jihaisse surprise party
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Jihaisse he didn't know we are comming
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Jihaisse coming
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Jihaisse erf...
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pfefferle :)
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KevinMarks that'll be the last godaddy domain I have
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benjaminchait1 kevinmarks - beyond that, any other consensus or ideas from sf last night on the topic of @n?
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KevinMarks someone said "set your DNS TTL high so you have time to argue with your registrar if hijacked"
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KevinMarks that's the scary part - that hosted domains can be easier to attack than silos
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benjaminchait I understand the premise of a high TTL to 'protect' a registrar hijacking—but isn't social engineering a challenge anywhere (i.e. silo'd email provider)?
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benjaminchait I'm all for tips and tricks, but at the end of the day, what methods should my family and friends use to protect themselves online? Or do we rely entirely upon those companies with whom we choose to do business?
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npdoty I think it's just worth thinking about because the domain is such a high and multi-valued thing
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peat ... for what it's worth, Hover and the Tucows family of domain registrars have been very good to me. They've helped me through several incidents where I needed to reclaim "peat.org" ... I can't recommend them highly enough.
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snarfed aaronpk, dietrich, thanks again for hosting the pdx side last night!
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snarfed and apologies again for the rough parts in sf
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snarfed seems like it went well despite
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dietrich snarfed: yeah we'll get a system down
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aaronpk i'm curious to try the camera+mic setup I got next time at esripdx
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aaronpk although I suspect a jawbone speaker might work quite well too
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dietrich snarfed: next time, someone on your end should audio-conference in with a mic in the middle of the table, and video-only from where you had it last night
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dietrich and i have the secret code and instructions to have moz's overhead mics work now
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dietrich aaronpk: yeah a jambox in the middle of the table would be fine
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dietrich hm, i need to do surgery on my jambox...
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aaronpk snarfed: this is the usb mic I got. it's cheaper than a jambox http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001TGTDFM (unless you already have a jambox)
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KevinMarks the stick mic being passed around thing we did at Mozilla seemed to work well
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snarfed aaronpk: sounds good, thanks
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aaronpk i'll be using that next time at our office
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snarfed i have to admit, the dedicated hardware at the moz sites is definitely nice
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aaronpk yeah
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snarfed (and elsewhere i've done VCs)
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KevinMarks microphony is hard
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aaronpk it's not that hard if you have $$ and time
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aaronpk :)
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KevinMarks and care about it, yep.
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Jeena finally got around it and implemented the media stuff in my notes https://jeena.net/notes/37 https://jeena.net/notes/36
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snarfed awesome!
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Jeena and if you use flickrs oembed url with https you get the urls for the images also as https urls
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snarfed '
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snarfed polish like that is great
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snarfed jealous!
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tantek jeena, that looks quite slick! *also jealous*!
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Jeena ;)
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Jeena tantek is http://tantek.com/ your notes index page?
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tantek it's a composite index page
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tantek I just mostly post notes
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Jeena I see, do you have a dedicated notes index page?
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Jeena I'm asking because I need to think about how to get updates from indieweb notes if I want to build some kind of a reader without rss and atom
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EHLOVader so were you all talking about tld because of the icann changes for other tlds?
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EHLOVader it reminds me of http://namespace.us/
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tantek I don't have a dedicated notes index page (yet)
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Jeena ok
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tantek the closest thing to a dedicated type-specific "page" is my "most recent 3 articles" widget in the right column
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jonnybarnes am I missing some trick here? is there an easy way to parse a micropub API post in PHP? I want the content from https://gist.github.com/jonnybarnes/8714599
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Loqi gives jonnybarnes the content from https
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jonnybarnes what Loqi?
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snarfed could be worse, at least it's not a webmention flood :P
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jonnybarnes lol
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tantek :D
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tantek jonnybarnes - doesn't PHP parse out the POST parameters for you?
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jonnybarnes tantek: you'd think so
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jonnybarnes im starting to think im using guzzle wrong to make the post request in the first place
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tantek snarfed - sounds like the meetings went great yesterday! thanks so much for organizing the SF meeting - everyone looks so happy in the photo! :)
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snarfed welcome! it did go well, lots of good discussion and serendipity
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snarfed captured some of it in the wiki
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tantek.com created /2014-01-29 (+53) "r" (view diff)
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snarfed.org edited /events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (+182) "/* SF P2P Section */ link to existing android app" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes I think I've got micropub tentatively working on my site.
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jonnybarnes tantek: I wasnt creating the POST requests properly, so PHP couldnt parse them
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aaronpk jonnybarnes: http://php.net/parse_str
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: I think I have it working now. I can post notes to jonnybarnes.net from jb.dev
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aaronpk oh wait you are talking about the other way around
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aaronpk ah cool!!
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jonnybarnes jb.dev being locally hosted on my macbook
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aaronpk this is awesome. now there are two note posting interfaces using micropub before i've even made one
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jonnybarnes the next thing to do is think about the storage of the OAuth token
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aaronpk yes, did you give any thought to my suggestion of not storing it? :)
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jonnybarnes didnt you guys discuss earlier the best thins is probably to keep it client side in a cookie
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aaronpk put it in a client-side cookie so my browser has it
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jonnybarnes the other thing, what should I do on a successful post? at the moment I redirect to the value of the Location header sent by micropub endpoint
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aaronpk that seems reasonable
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@amezoxaq RT @t: much #IndieWeb Bridgy & #IndieAuth progress! Come to 6:30pm Homebrew Website Club in SF & Portland TONIGHT: http://tantek.com/2014/029/t1/indieweb-progress-bridgy-indieauth-homebrew-tonight (twitter.com/_/status/428987051464458240)
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aaronpk barnaby's interface actually writes my own micropub endpoint into the <form action=""> attribute so that my browser makes a post directly to the micropub endpoint, and then since the endpoint returns a location header, redirects to the new entry!
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aaronpk that's sort of the minimum viable implementation
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tantek that's really good guidance - is that on the /micropub page?
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aaronpk i think so
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aaronparecki.com edited /micropub (+362) "/* Authentication */ add description of how to send access token" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes if waterpigs.co.uk makes you post directly to your own site why does he ever need an access token?
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aaronpk he doesn't, that's my point :)
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aaronpk but he has to do the authorization to at least the the access token written into the form
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jonnybarnes but if your browser is making a request to aaronparecki.com wont it send all the cookies for aa..com as well?
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aaronpk but this has nothing to do with cookies
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jonnybarnes what I mean is you can already be "logged in" to your site when his form sends you to it
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aaronpk but that requires a concept of being "logged in" which is not part of oauth and not really standardized anywhere
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aaronpk also it will not always be a user's browser creating posts with the micropub endpoint. sometimes it will be other server-side apps (I previously mentioned an instagram PESOS or last.fm PESOS app as an example)
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jonnybarnes yeah, makes sense
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jonnybarnes how long can a bearer token be?
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aaronpk oauth 2.0 refers to http basic auth for that, which doesn't seem to mention a length limit (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6750#section-2 and http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2617#section-2)
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bret aaronpk: did you find a decent late night place downtown last night?
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aaronpk nah I ended up going home
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aaronpk I realized I have a pretty cool place to live now, and it's nice to spend time there :)
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bret right on :)
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tantek aaronpk, once you've setup your personal site to hand out IndieAuth/OAuth tokens to client apps, do you have a UI on your personal site that lists all the client apps you've authorized (ideally with a revoke button next to each one)?
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tantek I tried checking both the /IndieAuth and /micropub pages but didn't see anything about that - and not sure where it would be appropriate to add such a question / suggestion
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aaronpk I don't have that yet, but at the rate other people are writing apps I'm gonna have to do that pretty quick!
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aaronpk ideally it would be possible for that to exist on the authorization server so that each person doesn't have to re-build that interface
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aaronpk (authorization server == indieauth.com in this case)
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aaronpk which may mean adding a "revoke" command to the token endpoint
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aaronpk will have to investigate the current work being done on OAuth revokation, been seeing a lot of emails about that on the lists
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aaronpk also holy crap i have a lot of work to do to clean up the wiki pages on indieauth
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Jeena aaronpk, I see that you're adding those long flickr urls into your notes, ever thought about their oembed resource so you could put the normal (or short) url to your note and still show the image? Like here: https://www.flickr.com/services/oembed?url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/11991674374/&format=json
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Jeena I was testing this resource today and it was really fast
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aaronpk Jeena: cool, i'll probably do that
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aaronpk I do that with soundcloud URLs right now
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/05/09/1/experimenting-with-auto-embedding-content
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Jeena for soundcloud I use a iframe with src=https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https://soundcloud.com/anamanaguchi/prom-night-ft-bianca-raquel
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Jeena but cool article, will need to read it
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@OnTheWebz RT @t: much #IndieWeb Bridgy & #IndieAuth progress! Come to 6:30pm Homebrew Website Club in SF & Portland TONIGHT: http://tantek.com/2014/029/t1/indieweb-progress-bridgy-indieauth-homebrew-tonight (twitter.com/_/status/429021302356070400)
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tantek Jeena - is there a way to use embed Flickr with an iframe like that too?
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Jeena not that I know of, I only did the oembed thing for flickr because there is no other way to get the image without a extra request
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aaronpk oh Jeena, one reason I link directly to the jpg on flickr is some of those photos are private, and I'm really just using it as a jpg hosting site
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Jeena ah I see
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Jeena but how are they private if you still can use this static url to show it to me?
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aaronpk that's how flickr works
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Jeena ...
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aaronpk flickr has two tokens for every photo, the photo ID and a "secret" token
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Jeena ah yeah true
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aaronpk the JPGs have both, but the URLs for the HTML pages only have the ID
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Jeena yeah I remember now
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aaronpk it's pretty clever actually
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aaronpk it lets them distribute the jpgs to a CDN that doesn't have to worry about access control
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Jeena yeah, I wonder why there is no such thing for the html page
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aaronpk there kind of is, with the "guest pass"
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Jeena true I remember something colled that but I can't find it now
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tantek I think the guest pass is done with a cookie though, not a different URL
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aaronpk IIRC the URL has a token that it uses to set the cookie
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tantek well, a special URL that sets a cookie and then you're "browsing with the guest pass"
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tantek which may grant access to various resources - not just one photo
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aaronpk right
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aaronpk usually a set or collection
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@t @benwerd has offered handmade art with a twist: write an #indieweb reply (like this) & send a webmention. I want one! (ttk.me t4UL1) (twitter.com/_/status/429033535551193088)
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tantek !tell benwerd - hmm - tried sending you a webmention for your handmade post and it didn't seem to show up: http://tantek.com/2014/030/t1/handmade-art-indieweb-reply-webmention-want
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk tantek: I see it there
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aaronpk it's not at the bottom
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tantek oh
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tantek weird
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aaronpk maybe UTC datestamps messing things up?
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aaronpk no, looks like all the "likes" are at the bottom
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tantek yeah
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tantek oh and even better - he's got deduping working!
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aaronpk oh nice wow
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tantek aaronpk - note that he has two replies from you, your original and your POSSE tweet @-reply via bridgy
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tantek similarly from erinjo (original reply + tweet POSSE @-reply)
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tantek and barnaby
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tantek but presumably he received the reply from bridgy for mine but was able to determine it was a POSSE copy of an existing reply
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aaronpk are you sure he just hasn't received the bridgy mention yet?
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snarfed aaronpk: that's my guess
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tantek I thought @-replies were realtime
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snarfed bridgy does twitter favs and RTs in realtime, but can't do replies since it doesn't get enough info to walk the reply chain
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snarfed and twitter poll freq is ~15m to stay under their throttling
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tantek oh ok cool
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snarfed https://www.brid.gy/about#realtime
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snarfed btw, i think comparing bridgy's u-url against the source post's rel-syndication is enough for de-duping, at least in this specific case
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snarfed you'd have to store u-urls and rel-syndications from previous webmention sources
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tantek no need to store anything else if you simply do original-post-discovery on bridgy's u-url, and then see a) there is an original post for it, b) and if so, if you already have that original post in your list of replies
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snarfed ah, sure, that works too
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snarfed you also want to do the reverse, to handle the case when bridgy's arrives first
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snarfed starting to add a de-duping section to the wiki, but not sure where it goes. webmentions? comments? backfeed?
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snarfed.org edited /webmention (+594) "/* Issues */ de-duping" (view diff)
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snarfed feel free to move that elsewhere