#indiewebcamp 2014-02-19

2014-02-19 UTC
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snarfed looks like nginx, but still
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bear google.freeppt.me shows google but in russian
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aaronpk so this is weird
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aaronpk there's another weird proxy site showing up in google http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5473/12623802564_676011ea0a_o.png
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aaronpk but look at the nice info it pulled out of the page into a table
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aaronpk for some reason google doesn't find the date or location when it's on my own domain.
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aaronpk It's nice that it's picking it up sometimes I guess. It's just microformats2, not 1
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aaronpk tantek: thoughts?
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tantek aaronpk, I haven't quite followed. the weird proxy sites? goold picking up microformats2?
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tantek s/goold/google
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Loqi tantek meant to say: aaronpk, I haven't quite followed. the weird proxy sites? google picking up microformats2?
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aaronpk google picking up microformats2 for my events
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tantek is it possible it's picking them up from a <table? in your markup?
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aaronpk I don't have a table. it's a <ul> with <li class="h-entry"> inside
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aaronpk inside that it's <div>s and <span>s
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tantek interesting, so they had to figure out the divs and spans inside
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aaronpk you think they just looked for the consistent structure of the divs and spans in the list and interpret it as a table?
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tantek possibly. are the dates formatted as you did in your source?
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aaronpk the dates are: <time class="date dt-published" datetime="2014-02-15T11:30:00-08:00">February 15, 2014</time>
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aaronpk so they may not have actually interpreted that as a date since the preview shows my text verbatim
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tantek right
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tantek aaronpk, I'm looking my home page re: your comment about "home page h-card seems to be missing a photo"
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aaronpk yeah my reader isn't finding it
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tantek I think I may need to restructure my home page as part of prototyping http://tantek.com/2013/338/b1/people-focused-mobile-communication-experience#what-next
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aaronpk sorry, s/"missing a photo"/"missing u-photo markup"
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tantek right I gotcha
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aaronpk clearly I see your photo :)
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aaronpk ah cause it's not in the h-card?
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tantek right
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Jeena argh it is frustrating! haha damn! again, how do I distinguish between a normal mention and a reply? And then what is a "foo favourited this."?
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Loqi a is held til the end of our block
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aaronpk I believe that is described on indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation
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Jeena thanks, will check that
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+151) "/* Working On */ redo homepage markup to consolidate photo and h-card" (view diff)
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Jeena so according to this article https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/jeena/431965617059790849/778725464 is a mention because it lacks in-reply-to?
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aaronpk it's actually a "like" because it has the "like" property
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Jeena ah hm
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aaronpk actually that page doesn't say as much as I thought about this
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aaronpk maybe I'm thinking of a different page
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tantek Jeena, see http://indiewebcamp.com/in-reply-to to start with
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tantek and http://indiewebcamp.com/like
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Jeena are there more of those?
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/repost
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Jeena ah
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tantek and http://indiewebcamp.com/rsvp is a special kind of reply
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Jeena I see
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tantek.com edited /webmention (+355) "/* Implementation Notes */ types of mentions" (view diff)
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tantek Jeena, since it wasn't clear, I added a subsection in the webmention implementation notes: http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#types_of_mentions
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Jeena very, nice, thank you!
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tantek hopefully that's more discoverable for anyone implementing webmentions
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tantek aaronpk: re: "when displaying a list of h-entrys in a feed, how do I know if I should display the name, name+content, or just content?" see http://indiewebcamp.com/notes#Note_Display
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tantek I'll add something to the FAQ for better discoverability
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aaronpk aha!
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aaronpk maybe link from comments-presentation?
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tantek add one where you think it's appropriate
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tantek.com edited /note (+358) "/* FAQ */" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, added an FAQ for the notes page that links to comments-presentation: http://indiewebcamp.com/note#how_to_display_in_a_list
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aaronpk cool
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tantek but in having reviewed it, I think the Note Type Algorithm is pretty solid
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/note#Note_Type_Algorithm
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aaronpk agreed! I had a feeling you had written something like that
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tantek continues reading through the weekend logs.
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tantek ok I think I've caught up on a weekend's worth of tells ;) a couple got collected here: http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Tantek.com#inbox
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Jeena I think this looks much nicer now. I split the mentions into likes, reposts, replies and mentions and show them differently now too. https://jeena.net/indieweb#comments
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Jeena I'm just not sure if I should have likes + reposts on top or replies instead
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gRegor` Looks good, Jeena.
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aaronpk Jeena: nice!
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gRegor` My preference would be replies first. That's just me, though
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Jeena hm yeah, replies are kind of much more important then the other two
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Jeena I will move them down
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aaronpk on my site I show favorites first but the pictures are way smaller, inspired by twitter's UI
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Jeena the fact that calling super() in ruby in a method of the object (for example foo()) is weird. I kind of would expect to need to do super.foo() or something
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Jeena hm that is also a good option aaronpk
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Jeena but on the other side, I like the big pictures, they make the page colorful :D
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tantek great to see all the design experimentation with how to show different kinds of interactions
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aaronpk haha true
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aaronpk http://aaron.pk/n4U_2
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Loqi nice
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aaronpk (example with a bunch of posts)
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Jeena ah you have a icon for likes
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aaronpk i might change it to a star soon, so it doesn't look like facebook
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Jeena yeah
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KevinMarks_ or a heart for likes, so it doesn't look like twitter
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KartikPrabhu tommorris: the pull request I sent to mf2py has too many bugs! Ignore/close it without merging.
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KartikPrabhu apologises for coding while sleep deprieved
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@designfeast Added @FEOpsConf, @HybridConf, @IndieWebCamp, @2nightstand to list of conferences/summits/camps/meet-ups » http://designfeaster.blogspot.com/2014/01/convening-power-energized-gatherings.html?utm_content=buffer992a4&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (twitter.com/_/status/435978162196193280)
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KartikPrabhu bear: updated my fork of mf2py to use Beautiful Soup. But it does not seem to be reading a file input, and I am not able to debug it! Could you take a look if you have time? https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py
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KevinMarks_ why beautiful soup and not html5lib?
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KartikPrabhu BS has in-built functions for parsing multiple classnames and all that. It can be told to use html5lib if need be
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks_ : if interested http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/bs4/doc/#specifying-the-parser-to-use BS also has fallbacks in case chosen parsers and not installed
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KartikPrabhu it also has a preference order lxml > html5lib > pyhton built in parser
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KevinMarks_ I'd say html5lib is the "correct" way, given how much work went into specifying behaviour on invalid markup
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks_: of course! I have no problem using html5lib as a parser for BS. I'll switch to that if my bug gets resolved :P
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KevinMarks_ looks like beautiful soup has come on a fair bit since I last used it
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@jalbertbowdenii microformats 2 date formatter https://github.com/indieweb/date-formatter-php (twitter.com/_/status/436005331836342272)
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@jalbertbowdenii libre projects - get your open source on http:/// #opensource #libreproject #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/436005654927769600)
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@jalbertbowdenii brid.gy use web mentions to scrape your social data to your site https://www.brid.gy #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/436023780058865664)
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@kyle_wm Little #indieweb milestone: http://kylewm.com is syndicating to Facebook now (in addition to Twitter). Kinda... http://kylewm.com/note/2014/5572 (twitter.com/_/status/436042957972459521)
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acegiak so I've managed to hack the plugin I'm using to posse to tumblr so that if I reblog something from tumblr on my wordpress it will reblog it on my tumblr as a tumblr reblog rather than just cloning the content
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acegiak which is important because tumblr folks take them notes and attribution seriously
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aaronpk acegiak: awesome! add a note to the wiki here? http://indiewebcamp.com/tumblr#POSSE_to_Tumblr
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aaronpk there's a similar note on the twitter page: http://indiewebcamp.com/twitter#POSSE_Reposts_of_Tweets
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@glennjones Sending a webmention reply Ben Werdmüller blog post http://werd.io/2014/im-making-50-pieces-of-art-do-you-want-one nice idea (twitter.com/_/status/436164586149281794)
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glennjones Finally got webmentions working on my own blog and out to bens. Can someone ping my blog to make sure its working the other way - http://glennjones.net/notes/2014-02-19-1
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aaronpk yep!
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pfefferle done
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caseorganic glennjones: yay!
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Loqi woot
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caseorganic acegiak: well done with the tumblr POSSE as a reblog vs. a clone
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glennjones And there it is http://glennjones.net/notes/2014-02-19-1 - need to add you to the auto approval list
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pfefferle glennjones nice!
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glennjones Here's the node.js helper module I am building https://github.com/glennjones/webmentions still needs a more work, but maybe helpful to others
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barnabywalters great work glennjones!
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aaronpk wow fascinating, this app appears to be a native ios note posting app that can POSSE to multiple networks
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aaronpk http://postcardsocial.net/docs/
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aaronpk "It lets one network serve as a 'host' and the remaining networks share a link back to that 'host' network's content"
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aaronpk "If you are a website owner or content creator, the app also offers a 'Custom Network' functionality that allows any web server to receive content by adhering to the Postcard API Protocol."
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aaronpk looks really well done
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aaronpk I bet it wouldn't take much to make the app support IndieAuth and Micropub!
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barnabywalters oh wow, fasinating
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barnabywalters s/fasinating/fascinating
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: oh wow, fascinating
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barnabywalters yuk, hardcoded URL API paths though
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aaronpk easily changed I think
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barnabywalters and nasty payload vocabulary
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barnabywalters indeed, certainly worth seeing if the devs are receptive to suggestions
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aaronpk invited him to join IRC
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barnabywalters yeah, the authoring UI looks great!
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aaronpk heh I should be POSSEing comments to hackernews
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barnabywalters do you know if Kyle’s using postcard to post to his own blog?
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aaronpk his blog is a wordpress blog, so it's likely he installed the plugin
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barnabywalters yep, he is! http://www.bitwit.ca/blog/my-new-website-and-how-its-integrated-with-postcard/
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aaronpk cool!
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barnabywalters not only that, but his header image is derived from a hashtag search of his images
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aaronpk wow
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barnabywalters that is awesome
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barnabywalters also nice to hear that the focus of the project is on content ownership: “While posting to one’s own website may not be the first feature that I’m advertising, it is the one I am personally most excited about because it represents most strongly why I first started building this app in the first place”
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aaronpk yes!
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/02/19/2/indiewebcamp linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC (webmention)
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barnabywalters understands selfdogfoodoing too “I want other people to use it, but I still win if no one else does”
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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aaronpk good morning tantek!
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tantek catches up on logs
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barnabywalters morning tantek
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tantek acegiak - that is VERY cool! POSSEing of reposts to Tumblr as native retumbls is very clever.
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@aaronpk @kylnew This looks great! Really inline with everything we're doing with IndieWebCamp. The app looks really... http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/02/19/2/indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/436173672340938753)
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aaronpk there now I POSSE'd my post to hackernews as well as twitter. (that was a very manual process, but an interesting use case)
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tantek That might be the first such instance of that. I wrote a bit about how one could do that with POSSEing of reposts to Twitter as native retweets here: http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#POSSE_Reposts_of_Tweets
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tantek but AFAIK no one has yet implemented that
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tantek !tell glennjones congrats on getting webmentions working on your blog!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegor` tantek: I was recently thinking of implementing native "like"ing of tumblr posts via POSSE. Wasn't sure if anyone had done that yet.
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tantek gregor not afaik
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jonnybarnes trying to get my head around webmentions, so I found some seed material in the wild to test my current code on. one thing you need to do is check that a webmention actually links to your site. So this gist is written as if I was snarfed and barnabywalters had written a reply to me: https://gist.github.com/jonnybarnes/9096326#file-gistfile1-php-L223
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jonnybarnes is my function barking up the wrong tree
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jonnybarnes I'm checking for the mf property 'in-reply-to', then finding the url value and checking that is equal to the target value that would be sent with the webmention
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jonnybarnes it works for this partiucular example so I'm thinking it should work in general
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: yep, the target value send with the webmention should be an exact match for the link href on the source page
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: that makes perfect sense, Im just checking that parsing the microformats for in-reply-to is a correct way of getting the link href from the source page
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: yep. usually the algorithm for this sort of thing is: look for a microformats2 structure with it in, if you don’t find it fall back to looking for a del value
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barnabywalters s/del/rel
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: jonnybarnes: yep. usually the algorithm for this sort of thing is: look for a microformats2 structure with it in, if you don’t find it fall back to looking for a rel value
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barnabywalters it’s detailed here: http://indiewebcamp.com/in-reply-to
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barnabywalters more specifically http://indiewebcamp.com/in-reply-to#How_to_consume_in-reply-to
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tantek jonnybarnes, ah I see barnabywalters is on it
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tantek exactly, follow the algorithms on the wiki instead of guessing
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tantek and then ask precise questions and we can clarify and add answers to FAQs accordingly
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Loqi glennjones: tantek left you a message 40 minutes ago: congrats on getting webmentions working on your blog!
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pfefferle jonnybarnes perhaps this could help https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-semantic-linkbacks/blob/master/semantic-linkbacks-microformats-handler.php
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tantek barnabywalters - I wonder if we need to add some sort of webmention testing to indiewebify.me? (for what jonnybarnes mentioned - "some seed material in the wild to test my current code on")
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barnabywalters tantek: yeah something like that is on the roadmap
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barnabywalters we just need to defined exactly what’s required and what sort of UI needs building
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barnabywalters e.g. in this case jonnybarnes wants something to *send* a webmention to a particular page on his site
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barnabywalters so maybe a form where you put in your target post URL, and indiewebify.me creates a URL acting as a fake reply to that URL, then sends a webmention
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barnabywalters along with detailed reporting of what webmention endpoints were discovered and any errors along the way
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: would that be useful to you as someone building webmention support?
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barnabywalters and what would you want the fake reply to look like?
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jonnybarnes probably, looking around it seems lots of people have made a note going something like "I think I have webmention support working now, someone else care to test"
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jonnybarnes so having a "fake reply" would automate that
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barnabywalters yeah, I feel that the social aspect of reaching out to others in the community to do webmention testing is a very positive thing
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barnabywalters but rather slow :)
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aaronpk also note that you can test webmentions yourself using this IRC channel :)
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barnabywalters the other advantage of an automated system would be that it could create various sorts of mentions (mentions, reply, repost, like, rsvp) for testing
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aaronpk every line in the IRC channel is an h-entry in the logs
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aaronpk and you can send a webmention yourself from the logs to your site
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jonnybarnes it could just say somethin like "hello <name>, welcome to the club", where name is grabbed from the homepage h-card
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barnabywalters aaronpk: that is very true — is that already mentioned on /webmention?
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aaronpk probably not!
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jonnybarnes cos I doubt people will implement webmention *before* they've added an h-card to their homepage
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pfefferle jonnybarnes voxpellis testpinger is really cool to test your local implementations https://github.com/voxpelli/node-webmention-testpinger
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: that’s a good idea, and would serve as a tangible test of the user’s h-card implementation
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aaronpk can you guys add these to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#How_to_Test_Webmentions ?
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barnabywalters doing
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aaronpk thx!
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aaronpk barnabywalters++
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Loqi barnabywalters has 25 karma
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Loqi [mention] http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-18/line/1392748409 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-18/line/1392748306 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-18/line/1392748409 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-18/line/1392748313 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-18/line/1392748409 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-18/line/1392748352 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-18/line/1392748409 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-18/line/1392748409 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-18/line/1392748409 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-18/line/1392748437 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-18/line/1392748409 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-18/line/1392748449 (webmention)
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tantek uh oh WTF
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Loqi [mention] http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-18/line/1392748409 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-18/line/1392748452 (webmention)
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aaronpk oh dear
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tantek LOQI!!!
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aaronpk well it's true
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /webmention (+687) "/* How to Test Webmentions */ added description and example of how to use the IRC channel with indiewebify.me to test accepting webmentions" (view diff)
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barnabywalters my bad
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barnabywalters I did an example for the expanded how-to-accept description
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barnabywalters looks like it was overly successful ;)
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aaronpk ooh but if other people use that it's going to do it again
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tantek barnabywalters yes we need a page with a form to create a temp reply permalink and send a webmention to your post. and then an UPDATE. and then a DELETE. to test all three.
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barnabywalters indeed :)
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barnabywalters tantek: ooh, testing update+delete is more challenging
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tantek to test that your webmention receiving code can handle each
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barnabywalters that introduces state
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tantek barnabywalters it shouldn't be
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tantek you just put three buttons on the form
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tantek SEND UPDATE DELETE
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tantek SEND just sends the webmention to the target
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tantek UPDATE changes the temp reply permalink content and then sends the webmention
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barnabywalters tantek: yeah but you have to do them in order, and indiewebify.me has to store what state each fake reply is supposed to be in
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tantek DELETE sets the temp reply permalink content to "Reply deleted" and then returns a 404 when its retrieved
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barnabywalters not impossible but more complicated
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tantek no state storage needed
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tantek or rather, the state is purely in the permalink
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barnabywalters tantek: but different permalinks = different comments
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barnabywalters so the “deleted” permalink would just never show up rather than deleting the other one
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tantek barnabywalters, no, same permalink, just different contents returned
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aaronpk it has to all be the same permalink, so indiewebify would need to store the current state of each permalink somewhere. wouldn't be too hard with redis caching for 30 minutes, so at least it's not permanent.
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barnabywalters tantek: yeah, so state is required
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tantek is pinging adactio about IndieWebCampUK 2014 :D
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barnabywalters tantek: woo!
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jonnybarnes btw barnabywalters your page http://waterpigs.co.uk/php-mf2/ is proving invaluable whilst working out what people are doing with their webmentions implementations, so thank you
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: thanks, glad it’s helpful!
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barnabywalters switching locations, bbiab
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jonnybarnes looking around I'm pretty sure my code will work if someone sends me a webmention to one of my notes, and their page is marked up with microformats
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jonnybarnes the next step will be to look in the rel tags
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aaronpk jonnybarnes: also take a look at the bookmarklet I added to http://pin13.net Once you drag it to your toolbar you can click it to see the current page parsed
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jonnybarnes will that be an entry in the "rels" array that php-mf2 creates?
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jonnybarnes thanks aaronpk
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jonnybarnes will look at pin13
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@kevinmarks "@sarahintampa: Postcard For iPhone Lets You Post To Any Social Network At Once, Even Your Own Website: http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/19/postcard-for-iphone-lets-you-post-to-any-social-network-at-once-even-your-own-website/ " #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/436194893300387840)
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tantek we gotta get Postcard to support IndieAuth + micropub - are you on this aaronpk?
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aaronpk yep
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tantek nice
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snarfed (and android :P)
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aaronpk no, don't make ios developers write android apps! that's pretty much a death wish.
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aaronpk tantek: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7264825 "Thanks very much Aaron. I took a look at those principles and it was a reassuring list that I might be doing something right :) I'll try and reach out in the next few days once I've had more time to read about indiewebcamp."
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snarfed oh i don't care who writes it, i just want it to exist
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aaronpk snarfed: amber's latest FB post isn't being polled it looks like. She added the permalink to the end after she posted on FB as an edit.
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tantek snarfed - perhaps you could add a section to /micropub with your wish :)
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snarfed looking at both
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tantek aaronpk - I like this context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7263711
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aaronpk yeah!
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snarfed aaronpk, caseorganic: yeah, apologies, bridgy doesn't handle edits (or deletes) well yet, and it will take some work to add because of the current architecture. feel free to harass me on https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/9
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aaronpk hm no I don't think that's it...
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aaronpk she edited her facebook post to add the citation at the end, it's just not finding the post
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aaronpk i've edited posts before to add the link on facebook manually
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glennjones.net edited /webmention (+515) "Added webmention implementation" (view diff)
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snarfed it depends on the timing of adding the link vs bridgy polling
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aaronpk ah
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snarfed but you're right if any of those likes happened *after* the link was added. i'll keep looking
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aaronpk so if it found the post once without the link, it'll just ignore it?
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snarfed it should use the latest post contents for each new response (like, comment, etc)
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aaronpk hm ok then yeah it's definitely not finding her latest post
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snarfed ok
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snarfed hmm, it's a 'link' post. i only added support for those either very recently…or not at all :P
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snarfed ohhhh yeah
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snarfed caseorganic, if you sign up for bridgy with FB again, it will find this missing post
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aaronpk oh? weird!
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snarfed FB needed a new oauth scope for link posts specifically
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aaronpk it looks like a regular post to me that contains an embedded link
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snarfed i should probably send an FB notif to everyone without it
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aaronpk man fb is complicated
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Loqi yea!
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snarfed so complicated loqi still hasn't accepted my friend request :(
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Loqi :)
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snarfed the "shared a link" language at the top of the post is the key part
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aaronpk loqi has a facebook account?
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aaronpk he's not old enough to sign up without parental supervision
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snarfed damn COPPA
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Loqi lolz
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snarfed ah, right, that's why i didn't send an FB notif after fixing that. FB *also* now expires all access tokens, even ones with offline_access scope, after 2 mos. sigh.
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snarfed bridgy already notifies you when that happens, so i was just lazy and figured the renewals would be enough
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aaronpk ah
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glennjones.net edited /webmention (+189) "Added lib details" (view diff)
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@xtof_fr @fdevillamil alors ? w/ @nitot #indieweb https://twitter.com/xtof_fr/status/436209314018385920/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/436209314018385920)
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scvnc I just found you guys today-- indie web is GREAT! Gotta make more cowbell so that projects like postcard don't fall into monoculture
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aaronpk scvnc: welcome!
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tantek welcome scvnc!
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scvnc thanks guys :)
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bret ANyone else notice Google voice activity affecting the contents of targeted ads?
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tantek doesn't use Google voice.
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@caseorganic @mikeyfwalsh A project on me for school? Epic. Could write about work I'm doing on the #indieweb... http://caseorganic.com/replies/2014/02/19/2/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/436214251263238144)
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sparverius bret: adblock bro
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bret I use adblock, this was on an ad supported app
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sparverius bret: hosts file based adblock then
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xtof bonjour. connected from mozilla paris. currently trying to connect nitot via indieauth...
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nitot Damn, where's tantek when you need him! ;-)
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nitot Hi there. I'm trying to take my first few step with IndieWeb and I'm trying to use rel="me" on my personal Website in order to use IndieAuth. Anyone here to help me?
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nitot I'm with Xtof but we're both stuck with this issue here at Mozilla Paris office
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snarfed hi! i'm around but know very little about indieauth
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KartikPrabhu I could help with the little I know
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snarfed i assume you've looked at http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth#FAQ ?
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nitot snarfed: KartikPrabhu : thank you very much, really appreciated!
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nitot snarfed: yes.
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KartikPrabhu alrighty! So what is the problem? nitot
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snarfed ok. what's the problem you're seeing?
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Loqi the problem is of assumptions of silos
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nitot snarfed: xtof is trying to log with Twitter and it fails too
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nitot so I guess that's Twitter who's failing
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snarfed likely, yes
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KartikPrabhu Twitter has been having some issue iirc
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snarfed twitter is really fragile with indieauth. i'd try another provider first just to see
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KartikPrabhu github works great
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KartikPrabhu so does Google+ but I haven't tried that in a while myself
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nitot I rarely use github, but I'm going to do it now :-)
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nitot thanks for the help
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KartikPrabhu nitot: sure thing
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nitot goes to try w/github
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@xtof_fr #indieweb session. Kudos Benj.me authentif. Via #indieauth.. . @nitot still stucked. (at @MozillaParis) [pic]: http:///login?continue=%2Fxtof_fr%2Fcheckin%2F53050d0f498efdb8eca5406c (twitter.com/_/status/436228513499467777)
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nitot IT WORKED!!!! (using Github)
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snarfed woot! congrats!
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Loqi :D
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nitot thank you guys for your help :-)
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nitot thank you xtof too :-)
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nitot now let's schedule a Paris meetup in the Mozilla Paris office :-)
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KartikPrabhu nice!!
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nitot thank you again folks for your help. You should see the smile on my face :-)
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tantek Welcome back nitot!
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nitot hey tantek!
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tantek Now add yourself to indiewebcamp.com/irc-people :)
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nitot managed to log-in on IndieWebCamp.com with my own domain! So proud!
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tantek Great!!!
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tantek See ^^^ ;)
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KartikPrabhu w00t!
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Loqi :D
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standblog.org blog edited /IRC_People (+48) "Added myself (standblog.org aka nitot)" (view diff)
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nitot tantek: done!
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KartikPrabhu a question about reply-contexts. I like the idea, but how do we implement it if the post being replied to is very long i.e. anything that is not a small note?
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu there's a whole section on how to handle it. I've been implementing it as a php library
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: can't find relevant section for large posts to which one are you referring?
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KartikPrabhu all examples here http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context are for short note type posts
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tantek aaronpk: Perhaps add it as an FAQ to the reply-context page and link to the answer (which I presume is on /comments-presentation ?)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.pearltrees.com/adrienne2/strategy/id10788007/pearl105049412 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (pingback)
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KartikPrabhu looks at comments-presentation
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: yeah it's here http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#How_to_display
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aaronpk under "get the text of the comment to display"
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KartikPrabhu but that is about displaying recieved comments. What about replying to a post and having some context of the original post. Same principles?
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aaronpk ah yeah
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KartikPrabhu cool!
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aaronpk that algorithm should probably be moved to a different page cause yeah you're right that's not clear
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KartikPrabhu that seems to be a general algorithm to display context for linked/mentions/related posts
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aaronpk it's more like how to display external content
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aaronpk posts
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aaronpk not sure how to call it
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KartikPrabhu yeah... I was running into that issue in my old webmention parsing. Will keep this in mind while writing new one
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KartikPrabhu thanks!
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tantek aaronpk: Sounds like premature modularization.
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aaronpk premature? but I need to use the same algorithm for two things right now
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tantek I'd expect slightly different approaches for reply contexts vs comments though a bunch of common aspects.
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aaronpk I think the part about finding the text of the post to display is the same for both
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tantek No that's a UX assumption.
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aaronpk but I'm *doing* it right now
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aaronpk there's no hypotheticals
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tantek You just happen to use the same code for ease of coding.
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tantek Which is a good start
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tantek However from a design perspective I definitely see making different display choices
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tantek Based on even just one very big interaction difference:
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KartikPrabhu tantek: so there is no "recommended" way to display reply-contexts?
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KartikPrabhu like there is for comments?
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tantek There is, on the wiki page already.
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tantek With several examples
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KartikPrabhu that definitely does not work for long posts
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tantek See /reply-context
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tantek Sounds like you have design to do then ;)
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tantek Back to the big diff
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KartikPrabhu I see. so that situation is open to implementation
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tantek 1. Reply-contexts are from an external post that the site owner *explicitly* chooses (links to)
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tantek 2. Comments are from external posts that the site owner *did not* choose.
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aaronpk sure, but does that actually have any resulting difference in how people present them yet?
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tantek For example in 1, you could have features in your posting UI to edit the default reply-context presentation. E.g. a resizable text box to choose how much of it to show vs ellipse.
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KartikPrabhu Is just having a link to the original post considered a reply-context then?
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tantek Aaronpk just comparing *existing* presentations of both there are differences already.
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aaronpk where do those exist?
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tantek Screenshots on both pages
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tantek Your choice to make them the same for you is your choice, but clearly not what everyone else is doing (if you compare all screenshots of both)
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tantek Remember what we discussed at UK 2013 re UI suggestions vs guidelines etc
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aaronpk I don't see the difference. all the examples on /reply-context-examples either show just the link, or show the text as it would be output by the comments-presentation algorithm
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@xtof_fr @nitot merci pour ce 1er meetup #indieweb. Calons une date á ton retour pour une session #webmention + #rsvp http://indiewebcamp.com/rsvp (twitter.com/_/status/436249324679610369)
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tantek I think suggesting similar handling is good guidance, but requiring (by moving it to a separate abstract page) is against our UI flexibility principles.
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tantek Anyway the difference in interaction I documented above implies a high likelihood of difference in presentation as we refine our UIs.
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tantek Starting with common code reuse makes sense. But as a start, not as an architecture.
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aaronpk ah I see
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aaronpk well there is very little anybody can do to *require* anybody do anything
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/xtof_fr/436249324679610369/12941802 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/rsvp (webmention)
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aaronpk I was thinking about it more from the perspective of someone asking "how should I show reply contexts?" and having a good answer
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aaronpk obviously if they don't want to show them that way they won't, no matter what anybody says
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tantek That's why I said it was good to copy but not modularize into some abstract page.
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tantek Also there was some backwards assertion about APIs implying wiki pages yesterday. Forgot who said that
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tantek Totally wrong. It goes User -> UI feature -> wiki page -> code (maybe API or library)
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aaronpk i can't find that reference
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tantek I think it was library vs page
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tantek In irc yesterday
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tantek (On mobile which is poor for irc search)
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tantek (And wiki editing)
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aaronpk this? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-17/line/1392656859
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tantek (Not sure why those aren't solved problems)
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tantek Yes that, but more what barnabywalters said after that
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tantek That was incorrect
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aaronpk ah
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tantek About wiki page naming
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tantek It's the other way around
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aaronpk My thought was the last two pieces of your chain you just described (wiki page -> code)
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tantek Yes. However this: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-17/line/1392657000 is wrong
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aaronpk yeah that's the other way up the chain
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tantek Lunchtime.
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KartikPrabhu interested by this discussion. goes for coffee
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aaronpk well I'm still finishing my library for finding the text to display for comments (e-content, p-summary, p-name), and then I'm going to use it for both comments and reply context on my site
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aaronpk after that I'll see how it works and decide if I need to change it for reply context
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@nitot RT @xtof_fr: @nitot merci pour ce 1er meetup #indieweb. Calons une date á ton retour pour une session #webmention + #rsvp http://t.co/LhYZ… (twitter.com/_/status/436256235734990848)
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snarfed ]
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snarfed …so there :P
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aaronpk good password
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snarfed heh
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/xtof_fr/436249324679610369/436256235734990848 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/rsvp (webmention)
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Jeena In the spirit of the #IndieWeb today me and my stepdaughter, or it was mostly her, I just helped, programmed a fanpage from scratch with HTML/CSS and some JavaScript: http://grimes.neocities.org/ it is a one page site where you can watch some music videos by Grimes and see lyrics to that video at the same time. I wonder why bands don't have pages like that.
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Jeena ah and the background image changes with the video too
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aaronpk nice
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aaronpk I wish it was easier to buy a domain and hosting for things like that
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Jeena yeah kind of
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Jeena even if a domain today is only €10 or something, you still need a credit card and stuff
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aaronpk that's part of the "easier" I was talking about :)
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Jeena there should be a iOS/Android app with in app purchases where you could buy stuff like that ^^
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Jeena btw. "float" in CSS is one of the hardest things to explain
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ttepasse Jeena, if you're quick, you can sell your page to facebook for some billions.
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Jeena uhm how, what do you mean?
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snarfed domai.nr has nice mobile apps
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ttepasse The missing context: facebook just bought WhatsApp for $ 16.000.000.000. ;)
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caseorganic "With only 32 engineers, one WhatsApp developer supports 14 million active users"
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Jeena oh, but that kind of was expected
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caseorganic http://sequoiacapital.tumblr.com/post/77211282835/four-numbers-that-explain-why-facebook-acquired
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KartikPrabhu so FB now has my phone number too!?
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Jeena The thing is, before WhatsApp there was PingChat which now is called Touch, it did everything what WhatsApp did but was more polished. Still doesn't matter, didn't got bought by Facebook.
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ttepasse The price per user paid for is still high. ~38 $. I remember some years when users were valuated under 1 $.
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caseorganic picture of 1 billion dollars for scale: http://demonocracy.info/images/usd-1_billion_dollars-1,000,000,000_USD-v2.jpg
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@sandeepshetty Looks like dark social isn't going to be so dark anymore http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/19/facebook-buying-whatsapp-for-16b-in-cash-and-stock-plus-3b-in-rsus/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/436271965909708800)
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ttepasse As a user I ask: Why doesn't Facebook pay me directy for usage?
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Jeena It is like FlappyBird, there were and are 1000nds of games like it which didn't succeed. It is just pure dumb luck.
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aaronpk I think WhatsApp has way more users than PingChat tho
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Jeena yes absolutely, I'm just saying that it is pure luck that they have more users, they weren't the first, they weren't the most polished and so on.
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aaronpk ah yeah
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Jeena didn't they use XMPP internally?
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aaronpk yeah
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Jeena wonder if they started with ejabberd
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aaronpk sorry for the PDF link, but: http://www.erlang-factory.com/upload/presentations/558/efsf2012-whatsapp-scaling.pdf
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Jeena hehe "low-latency service that processes 50 billion messages every day across seven platforms using Erlang"
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Jeena ah thanks
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aaronpk yeah I think they do, I keep seeing references to them on the ejabberd lists
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Jeena My Bachelor Thesis was also on something like this https://jeena.net/t/GGS.pdf a generic game server written in Erlang and OTP for reliability
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aaronpk interesting: "In the WhatsApp framework, the client is the canonical message store, and the server is a router with temporary storage."
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Jeena ok reading through the PDF you linked I must say I am a bit impressed.
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aaronpk (from http://www.quora.com/How-does-WhatsApp-work-1)
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Jeena wtf quora wants me to sign in with facebook or google because I must be at least 13 years old to read this text ...
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aaronpk oh yeah lame
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Jeena "Inspect Element" -> "display: none", Enter
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aaronpk i bet there's a browser plugin for that
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ttepasse Quora hot tip: append ?share=1
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aaronpk oh jeez
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Jeena nice, thanks
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Jeena hm there is one thing which WhatsApp does better then PingChat, and that could be the most important, no Ads, you pay for a year of usage upfront, and only $1, crazy.
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@njbenji RT @xtof_fr: #indieweb session. Kudos Benj.me authentif. Via #indieauth.. . @nitot still stucked. (at @MozillaParis) [pic]: http://t.co/TLN… (twitter.com/_/status/436280310310117376)
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bret I'm not a huge fan of DBs, but redis is pretty neato
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aaronpk i think of redis more as a caching layer, but yes
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bret whatever it is :)
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bret right, its all memory but can snapshot
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bret btw aaronpk, the openID provider in indieauth, so awesome, first time I have ever really used openID
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aaronpk yay!
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Loqi :D
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bret like, on a weekly basis ;)