#indiewebcamp 2014-02-26

2014-02-26 UTC
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caseorganic
KevinMarks2: could totally do a larger event there, but would be best to do sat and sunday
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caseorganic
KevinMarks2: there's a conf in the way that i need to fly out to on sunday
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caseorganic
KevinMarks2: i'd really like to get a lot of stuff done in a small group for the first in sf
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caseorganic
KevinMarks2: for a larger one to occur we need more onboarding pages
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KevinMarks2
I get that. I think this would work as a future expansion. They are very supportive, and relatively inexpensive
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willnorris.com
edited /IRC_People (+61) "add willnorris"
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KevinMarks2
I put some pics on g+
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KevinMarks2
As I don't have camlistore working on my phone yet
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KevinMarks
so I should tell Neo we're good for 7-8th march
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KevinMarks
and that we'd liek to use them in future?
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KevinMarks
whats a good way to post pix here?
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tantek
KevinMarks what's Neo?
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tantek
checks logs
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KevinMarks
Neo is Digitat Garage's co in SF - 717 Market at 3rd
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tantek
agrees with all of caseorganic's points.
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tantek
Kevinmarks, your statement "we're good for 7-8th march" out of context sounded like you were trying to move the venue to Neo!
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tantek
caseorganic, I *strongly* agree that the first of something needs to be smaller, more intimate.
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tantek
too much space/emptiness and it feels empty/sad.
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KevinMarks
I was looking into Neo, 'cos I din't know Embassy was settled.
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KevinMarks
fair - they have several spaces
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tantek
KevinMarks - gotta keep up with http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:RecentChanges ;)
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tantek
that's our sync-point / semaphore
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KevinMarks
I checked yesterday when I set up the neo meeting
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tantek
caseorganic - we should work to "sell out" IndieWebCampSF and start a waitlist ASAP
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tantek
KevinMarks - did you add Neo to the list of candidates and note you were asking them? We've been asynchronously working on several venues in parallel for a while (including MozSF, github, etc.) using the wiki as a place to keep that incremental state.
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tantek
oh hey caseorganic is back
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tantek
repeats himself, apologies
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tantek
caseorganic, I *strongly* agree that the first of something needs to be smaller, more intimate.
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KevinMarks
I didn't add to wiki, sorry
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tantek
caseorganic - we should work to "sell out" IndieWebCampSF and start a waitlist ASAP.
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KevinMarks
agree about intimacy
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KevinMarks
not trying to reset decision
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tantek
np, just making sure there wasn't some other coordination point you were trying to use
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KevinMarks
I know that event size tends to grow too fast here, so a bigger space could be good for next time.
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tantek
I hope so
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tantek
That would be a good problem to have
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sparverius
guess ill help out at iwcsf
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sparverius
if you need it
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tantek
sparverius - we do!
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tantek
It takes a village and all that :)
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KevinMarks
pix of neo space
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tantek.com
moved /2014/SF_Guest_List to /2014/SF/Guest_List "consistent path with others"
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tantek.com
edited /Guest_List (-1) "update sidebar link"
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tantek.com
edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (-30) "use wiki local link and just link the text"
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tantek.com
edited /Planning (-7) "update sidebar link"
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tantek.com
edited /Schedule (-7) "update sidebar link"
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tantek.com
edited /Sponsors (+159) "2014 SF"
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tantek
sparverius - could you add yourself here? http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF#Volunteers
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tantek
willnorris - there are plenty of nice places to get dinner nearby on Haight Street
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tantek
just a few blocks walk
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tantek
we can do a mass walk over just like we did at IndieWebCamp2013 dinner in PDX.
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willnorris
yeah. we should go ahead and reserve space for this size group though
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tantek
we can do that closer to the date as we get a better handle on actual numberse
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tantek
Indian Oven on Fillmore & Haight st is a good place that can likely handle us
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tantek
there's also Green Burger
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4c4d.com
edited /2014/SF (+12) "/* Volunteers */"
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sparverius
hmm i might only be able to attend though
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sparverius
but i'd like to volunteer lol
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tantek
KevinMarks - that URL requires a login (pix of neo space) - can you share somewhere without a login wall?
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tantek
"Sign in to continue to Google+ " - no good
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tantek.com
created /2015/SF (+481) "stub something to at least keep track for next year"
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tantek
KevinMarks, then add links / embeds of said photos to: http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF
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caseorganic
KevinMarks: tantek: aaronpk: talking with someone about using microformats vs. schema - can you help with arguments?
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sparverius
oh shit it's the 8th. sorry guys, no go for me D:
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4c4d.com
edited /2014/SF (-14) "/* Volunteers */ Sorry, bad at planning :("
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tantek
caseorganic, open with a community behind it. vs. owned by Google with patents and ZERO community.
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tantek
oh, and the best reason, microformats are less work
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caseorganic
tantek: will google block microformats in the future in favor of schema only?
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caseorganic
tantek: at a local data conf and talking with someone about which format for lots and lots of his data
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tantek
caseorganic - WTF? Why would anyone ask such a negatively framed question? Sounds like you're talking with a troll.
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caseorganic
tantek: i have not provided enough context
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tantek
When has google "block[ed]" anything?!?
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caseorganic
tantek: looking for a positive response
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tantek
no seriously - anyone who thinks in terms of Google "blocking" something has a problem
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tantek
or is a spammer
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tantek
SEO type person
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tantek
Google blocks spam sites, not technologies
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sparverius
the only way to get google to block you is to get DMCA'd or be such a tremendous douchebag that nothing of value was lost
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caseorganic
tantek: he hasn't heard of microformats before
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tantek
sparverius, right
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caseorganic
tantek: so i was explaining that there were options
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tantek
caseorganic, he must be new to web development then
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tantek
is he an SEO Marketer person?
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sparverius
and what exactly does blocked mean because occasionally people get googlesmacked for having sites that load realllly slowly
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sparverius
and shit like that
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tantek
sparverius, right, it's specific to *content* and *sites*, not technology
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tantek
I'll put it bluntly: schemaorg is bad for the open web. period.
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tantek
caseorganic, more on my archive page for that day: http://tantek.com/2013/219
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tantek
(not linked from anywhere, but you know, URLs should be hackable by default ;) )
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caseorganic
tantek: can you describe more about people in seo and schema?
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tantek
caseorganic - what's there to describe? you're familiar with SEO Marketers (AKA spammers) right?
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caseorganic
tantek: yes
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tantek
they're the ones always worried about being "blocked"
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tantek
so when someone asks a question like that, they give away their background mindset/perspective
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caseorganic
tantek: so just ignore them if they ask questions? what is the protocol?
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tantek
what do you tell a snake oil salesperson?
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tantek
or someone who works for a polluting industry?
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tantek
SEO Marketers / spammers are web polluters
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tantek
so you could try a couple of approaches:
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tantek
1. Socratic method - ask them what they're trying to do, why, and keep digging until you get to a profit/selfish motivation and see if they understand or care that their behavior is bad for the web.
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Loqi
that doesn't make sense
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Loqi
is done
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caseorganic
gives Loqi a cookie
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Loqi
eats the cookie
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sparverius
darn i thought it was loqibot freaking out
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tantek
2. or troll them with rabbitholes and friction. E.g. suggest that they look into RDFa.
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tantek
I prefer to use (1) because I like to think most people want to do the right thing and are just unaware that they're being bad citizens.
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tantek
but if they're clearly an unsavable SMD, then (2) can be done in a tongue in cheek way
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tantek
preferably AFTER they admit that they don't care about polluting the web
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caseorganic
tantek: unfortunately the question about google blocking microformats was my question, so i am the snake oil salesperson :(
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KevinMarks
lost the thread there as my mac rebooted for the OS X update
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tantek
caseorganic, what made you come up with the use of that word "blocking" ?
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tantek
KevinMarks logs! :)
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KevinMarks
reading 'em
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KevinMarks
there is endless debate about what is parsed by whom. Google does parse microformats, and their own tools show it
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KevinMarks
and they are very easy to add to web templates, unlike schema stuff which is very structured
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KevinMarks
reads scrollback - if we go out near indieweb, don't wear Glasss in case of Haight crimes
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tantek
caseorganic, can you trace the provenance of your thought process that resulted in typing "block[ing]"?
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tantek
caseorganic, stack dump?
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caseorganic
tantek: yep, but you won't like the answer
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caseorganic
tantek: i'll be more careful asking questions in the future
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tantek
introspection is useful either way
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tantek
if we can trace an idea to its genesis we can alter its propagation in the future
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KevinMarks
we did have to explain why rel-tag was not pollution to google at one point
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tantek
KevinMarks - no we had to explain why technorati.com/tag/ pages were not pollution to google at some point
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tantek
there was never a problem with rel-tag
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tantek
and it was not pollution, but rather, Google not wanting to index "search results"
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tantek
originally technorati.com/tag/ pages *only* showed posts/photos/links etc. that were all EXPLICITLY tagged by the people posting them. So it was a *set* that made sense to index.
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tantek
but then out of a misplaced sense of "usability" someone in product (pretty sure guy who's name started with D) decided to make /tag/ pages show *search* results and not just explicitly tagged things. And that was the huge mistake that made Google want to punish those pages for.
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tantek
s/who's/whose
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: but then out of a misplaced sense of "usability" someone in product (pretty sure guy whose name started with D) decided to make /tag/ pages show *search* results and not just explicitly tagged things. And that was the huge mistake that made Google want to punish those pages for.
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tantek
caseorganic, be careful not with the asking of questions, but how you choose to think about them - that's the key
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tantek
if you've already thought the misframed thought - it's too late
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tantek
matters less if you speak it out loud or not - your view has been (mis)shaped already which may affect your future statements
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KevinMarks2
Right Tantek. That we were indexing other tagspaces than just our own helped with the explanation
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tantek
more than indexing - we were *collecting*
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tantek
you could paginate through the entire collection
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tantek
there was an aspect of comprehensiveness and precision
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tantek
which "search results" lack
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aaronpk
ok so i'm working on getting my instagram photos on my site (https://github.com/aaronpk/p3k/issues/29) and I need a name for this thing
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aaronpk
it's actually going to be set up like bridgy where anybody can use it if they support photo posts from their micropub API
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aaronpk
I'm thinking... "ownyourgram"
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aaronpk
[y/n]?
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aaronpk
basically it's pesos as a service
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aaronpk
for instagram
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: selfgram?
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aaronpk
something tells me the .com is not available
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acegiak
so here's a question. If I reblog, comment on and like a post/note/whatever. should htat appear as one h-entry or multiple on my site?
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aaronpk
heh, I don't think I've seen that before
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aaronpk
well you've seen Twitter's UI for that right?
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acegiak
checking to refresh myself?
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aaronpk
trying to find an example
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aaronpk
i know i've done it a couple times
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aaronpk
apparently it's been a long time since i've rewteeted anything
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KevinMarks2
I have pestagram.com if you want it
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aaronpk
gah they changed it
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acegiak
the question is really, do we consider an h-entry to be an action or a piece of content?
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aaronpk
that is a great way to put it
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KevinMarks2
I think of hentry as a noun.
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acegiak
so then it can have multiple verbs attached?
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aaronpk
that is looking at my timeline
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KevinMarks2
Post or repost as a verb
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aaronpk
yes. although if the content is not your own, you should use h-cite instead of h-entry I think.
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KevinMarks2
Aaron posted, acegiak reposted? Or shared?
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aaronpk
the h-cite gives you the place to put your annotations (like, repost, or even additional text) and the h-entry inside would be the original post with the author's own h-card.
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acegiak
I'm just trying to work out how to handle multiple verbs
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aaronpk
does that sound reasonable tantek? ^^
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KevinMarks2
Hmm. Well then the entry is your past and the cite is the repost?
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acegiak
that sounds about right
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acegiak
one thing I'm noticing is I've got a lot of posts on my site when I just reblog something without comment so the content section of my h-entry is empty because the importance is the verb and the h-cite
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aaronpk
huh, "repost" isn't listed on the h-cite page http://indiewebcamp.com/h-cite
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acegiak
so my h-cites also have p-in-reply-to even when I'm not posting additional comment
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tantek.com
edited /h-feed (+105) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ credit Sandeep Shetty with encouragement"
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tantek
owngram?
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tantek
scrolls up
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tantek
aaronpk, re: ownyourgram - was owngram taken?
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aaronpk
no, that didn't occur to me
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aaronpk
I like the rhythm of ownyourgram
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aaronpk
parallels instagram better
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tantek
ownagram
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tantek
yeah, and ownyourdata
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tantek
aaonpk, not sure I understand the question about "sound reasonable"?
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aaronpk
oh I dont have much experience with h-cite (i'm only using it for reply context, and may even be using it wrong still)
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aaronpk
i haven't thought about publishing reposts yet at all
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tantek
I think I use it in rely-contexts
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tommorris
overnight, I seem to have registered a domain purely for the purpose of comedy (completelyheterosexual.com) and built out most of the implementation of webmentions on my site
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tommorris
also redirected blog.tommorris.org to tommorris.org
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tommorris
thus cutting the Tumblr ties.
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aaronpk
productive!
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tantek
tommorris - awesome!!!
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tantek
aaronpk - wow that's pretty messed up. also - I have no idea who any of these people are.
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tantek
or what companies they represent
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tantek
where is this OAuth/OpenID meeting happening anyway?
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aaronpk
no idea. i can't keep track of all of this anymore.
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aaronpk
oauth has splintered off into like 6 different groups, and they all seem to have various meetings or conference calls at different times to discuss things.
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aaronpk
s/things/Things
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Loqi
aaronpk meant to say: oauth has splintered off into like 6 different groups, and they all seem to have various meetings or conference calls at different times to discuss Things.
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aaronpk
meanwhile, *actual* oauth continues to solidify itself and demonstrate what people actually care about (see recent advancements in the UI from companies like Github where they let you generate multiple access tokens for your own account by clicking a button)
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tommorris
holds breath and attempts to deploy webmention code to tommorris.org
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Jeena
is it possible to markup my h-card with a photo but without using <img src="/avatar.jpg"> for it? Because even if if I do display: none
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Jeena
on it, the browsers load it anyway
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Jeena
oh hell yeah, thanks to tanteks explanation yesterday about the prefixes of microformats I did: <span class="p-photo">https://jeena.net/avatar.jpg</a>
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Jeena
and it works!
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Jihaisse
<span</a> ?
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Jihaisse
<a></a> non ?
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barnabywalters
or you can do <data class="p-photo" value="http://..."></data>
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tantek
Jeena or an empty <a href> too if you want take advantage of u- parsing rules
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tantek
e.g. <a class="u-photo" href="avatar.jpg"></a>
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Jeena
ah, but <data> looks cooler and I never used it, so data it is :-D
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tantek
yes, <data> is technically the better choice for such invisible things
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Jeena
I could do the whole h-card in <data>, oh the possibilities!
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tantek
true! but since you already have the information visible on the page, might as well mark that part up at least
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Jeena
I don't have it visible, and I kind of don't want it either for now
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tantek
indeed that's your design choice! will be interesting to see how you feel a year from now, how your design evolves etc.
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adactio
Indie Web friends, this event in Düsseldorf in May (right after the Beyond Tellerrand conference) will be very Indie Webish and they're looking for workshop and speaking proposals: http://decentralizecamp.com/
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Jeena
Yeah, I feel like change about once every one or two years
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barnabywalters
decentralizecamp doesn’t seem very focused on building things — “This camp is about defining the status quo, about exchanging ideas, making plans and moving forward” is very vague
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tobiastom
barnabywalters: that idea is to raise awareness for the indie web. telling people why it is important and that we still could live in a social world, even when we don't use all the services out there. It's about getting more people into the indie bubble, not scaring them away with technical details. :)
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tobiastom
looking into the log to check if the message came through… strange feeling.
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barnabywalters
yep, I got it :) freenode has been really flaky recently
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tobiastom
looks more like my connection is really messy today :)
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barnabywalters
tobiastom: charging an entrance fee seems like it would be contrary to that goal — why would someone who doesn’t understand the problems care enough to pay to get in? maybe you can find a sponsor who’ll cover those costs
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barnabywalters
I’m assuming by your stance that you’re involved with organising decentcamp?
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tobiastom
barnabywalters: hm. that's a very valid point. I've not even seen that it costs something, I just "know" they guys that organize it.
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tobiastom
nope. not really. but I'll forward your point :)
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barnabywalters
tobiastom: thanks!
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snarfed
Jeena, just fyi, i'm seeing webmention failures on jeena.net: https://www.brid.gy/#facebook-728407677
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marcthiele
Hi heard from Tobias, that a question was raised, why we charge about 20 to 25 Euro for the Decentralize Camp?
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tantek
good morning #indiewebcamp!
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barnabywalters
morning tantek
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barnabywalters
greetings marcthiele!
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tantek
marcthiele is there an FAQ you can point to?
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marcthiele
hey tantek
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marcthiele
The money is only taken to give out free drinks (Coffee, Tea, Soft Drinks and Beer) plus food (lunch, bffet stile)
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barnabywalters
marcthiele: for more context here’s the discussion: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-26#t1393427181
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marcthiele
Yep. Seen it. Cheers.
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marcthiele
Tantek, I sent you an email a few days ago with the link to the concept
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barnabywalters
so the question is not “why the cost” (that much is explained by the website) — the question is, if this event is aimed at non-technical people as tobiastom posited, what will make them care enough to pay the entrance fee?
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caseorga_
morning!
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marcthiele
As said: The entrance fee is for the full day covering just the cost for their lunch and drinks.
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barnabywalters
morning caseorga_
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tantek
marcthiele - hmm email - might have gotten lost. sorry!
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marcthiele
The reason for not having the registration yet is, that I am still waiting for the estimated cost of the lunch.
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tantek
marcthiele - it's cool - organizing these things is always a challenge. totally sympathize.
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tantek
the more you can document it (the whole process) openly, the better.
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tantek
heck, we do all our indiewebcamp organizing live publicly on the wiki.
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marcthiele
So ppl you mention, @barnabywalters, should be ok with paying for this, even if they are non-tech
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tantek
marcthiele - definitely recommend putting all that in an FAQ
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marcthiele
Good point, tantek. We just launched the basic site yesterday, Bastian and me.
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barnabywalters
marcthiele: if you say so :) just wondering
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marcthiele
Yep organizing stuff like this is always a nice task.
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marcthiele
Am running beyond tellerrand in May and Bastian and I are setting up this camp as we think it is a good chance to get some awareness for this topic, as 500 ppl are already there for beyond tellerrand anyways.
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barnabywalters
marcthiele: ah great, so you have a big pool of people in the right place at the right time
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barnabywalters
that’s a strategy which has always worked out well for indiewebcamp
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marcthiele
barnabywalters: I can't guarantee, but it is a try. And I am thinking positive that thi is understandable
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marcthiele
barnabywalters: Yep. That is the plan. Hope it works out.
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tobiastom
hey marc
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tantek
marcthiele tobiastom great having you here in the channel too!
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marcthiele
hey tobiastom
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marcthiele
tantek, the thing I was initing you is a draft and we'd love a few people who know more than us to check it before we throw it out. We are quite new to this topic and guess we'll fail at many things first;)
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marcthiele
is taking care of the kids now. Dinner time. Back later.
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MattBeran
Level of effort estimate: 2 hours to learn and setup IRC. First timer.
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barnabywalters
welcome MattBeran!
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MattBeran
ty @barnabywalters!
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barnabywalters
how did you find out about indiewebcamp?
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MattBeran
Noob question on IRC - does your name color indicate something?
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MattBeran
Blue vs. orange?
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barnabywalters
MattBeran: what client are you using?
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MattBeran
Byrd (Chrome extension)
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barnabywalters
e.g I’m using colloquy, and my name is red whereas everyone else is orange
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MattBeran
Ah - context! Love. Thank you.
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MattBeran
I had lunch with @CaseOrganic two days ago and she mentioned indieweb - I saw it as an opportunity to learn and grow.
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barnabywalters
nice, working on your own site is a great way to expand your skill set, as well as push the boundaries of what’s possible on the web
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barnabywalters
do you have a personal domain already?
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barnabywalters
MattBeran: “read somewhere” — do you have a link to where you read that?
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barnabywalters
if there are specific issues you might be able to address them in the client
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barnabywalters
otherwise it’s a bit too vague to make any particular suggestions based on :)
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MattBeran
Yes - had one for a while mattberan.com - but it's tumblr redirect. I use wordpress on productivecast.com. I know HTML/CSS/Design tools very well, and Javascript only slightly well.
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MattBeran
RE: Security: Perfect, I'll research the client and configure - thanks
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barnabywalters
MattBeran: tumblr is a good platform to start on/grow from, and you've got your own domain which is the important thing.
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barnabywalters
there are some guides to adding basic indieweb support like microformats markup to tumblr on the wiki: http://indiewebcamp.com/Tumblr
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MattBeran
I have to explore the wiki - is there a "getting started" guide for indiecamp newbs?
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barnabywalters
e.g. tommorris used to have a blog hosted on tumblr but has moved to his own software without breaking any links
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barnabywalters
also check out http://indiewebify.me for some guidance and tools
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MattBeran
Perfection. Thank you so much for setting me on the right path - you have saved me countless hours!
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barnabywalters
and please don’t hesitate to ask questions here if anything is confusing — we’re always looking to improve our documentation :)
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tommorris
barnabywalters: done by pointing blog.tommorris.org to tommorris-redir.herokuapp.com which then sends the user on to tommorris.org/post/redirect?url={original URL}
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tommorris
and tommorris.org looks up the URL in the DB.
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tommorris
with some fuzzy matching rules
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barnabywalters
tommorris: nice, is that approach (esp. the fuzzy matching rules) documented anywhere?
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tommorris
no, I need to write a “what I’ve been doing with my site” post in the next day or so
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tommorris
the fuzzy matching rule is stripping the post slug off and matching against post ID. ;)
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barnabywalters
tommorris: yeah that would be great, maybe a how-to or link on iwc/Tumblr like “how to keep tumblr links working when you move to a self-hosted system”
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tommorris
“The web is a platform” logic is silly, because “iOS is a platform” log is also silly.
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tommorris
If you write an iOS app, you may have functionality which is only available on certain device or OS version combinations
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tommorris
Which is fine. But the web having the same thing for browsers is considered a bug. ;)
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KartikPrabhu
true. but in some sense it is more pronounced in browsers... which is fine
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aaronpk
so github is releasing an editor named "atom" https://github.com/atom
bret, snarfed, squeakytoy, friedcell, CheckDavid and tobiastom joined the channel
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aaronpk
at least they'll be taking up some of the airspace for the term "atom"
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snarfed
a friend of mine's kid is named atom
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aaronpk
that's not gonna be confusing at all
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snarfed
yeah, the adam kinda-collision is tough, but maybe also a bit easier than a truly weird name
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aaronpk
"adam? no, atom"
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aaronpk
sounds pretty much exactly the same in american english
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snarfed
i kind of like it (we've been thinking about baby names ourselves.)
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ttepasse
There must be something witty with future marriage and molecules in there.
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snarfed
ttepasse++
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Loqi
ttepasse has 2 karma
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tommorris.org
edited /Events (+47) "/* See Also */"
(view diff)
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tommorris.org
created /possible_events (+466) "adding Paris 2014 suggestion"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
tommorris: are you on that email list where paris is being mentioned?
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aaronpk
oh, yes
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tommorris
yep, the point of it was to try and sneak people off mailing lists and onto wikis. ;)
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aaronpk
excellent
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aaronpk
are you going to reply with a link t othe wiki page to continue discussing there? :)
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aaronpk
oh you beat me to it
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aaronpk
tommorris++
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Loqi
tommorris has 16 karma
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aaronpk
you are fast
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bret
whoa, irc scrollback full of disconnects
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aaronpk
freenode has been having a tough time
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snarfed
turned off join/part messages ages ago and never looked back
squeakytoy, grantmacken, squeakytoy2, pasevin_, friedcell1, arcasin, eschnou, KevinMarks, paulcp, KartikPrabhu, KevinMarks_, CheckDavid, snarfed, bret, iangreenleaf, benprew, josephboyle, marcthiele, bnvk, scor, melvster, Garbee, sparverius, ttepasse, icco, gavinc, rknLA, aaronpk, Raymondo, JasonO, netweb, rektide, otterdam, jtzl_, JonathanNeal, hober, tommorris, etymancer, michel_v, Jeena, reidab, walkah, ryana, bear, hugoroyd, hadleybeeman, Phae, wagle, the_merl1n, dietrich_, anselm, amblin, onewheelskyward, lmjabreu, saurik, bigbluehat, edsu, jacus, nagaway, igalic, edrex, inimino`, pavelz, pdurbin, realzies, Alkhemist, XgF, nloadholtes, hidgw, sdboyer, heath, mko, brianloveswords, jjuran, catsup, acegiak, brixen, marjolein, pasevin, KevinMarks2, bpayton, yaf, LauraJ and indiewebcamp-vis joined the channel
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AndySylvester
aaronpk, I have installed your fork of the Selfoss RSS reader, and I have two questions
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AndySylvester
(1) have you tried the username/password feature?
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AndySylvester
(2) what microformats parser support did you add?
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AndySylvester
I have been unable to successfully use the username/password setup, and I noticed that the reader does not seem to recognize the microformat content I have
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aaronpk
AndySylvester: it's still super experimental, I wouldn't necessarily recommend using it just yet.
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aaronpk
but right now I log in with a username/password
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aaronpk
(it was kind of weird to set up)
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AndySylvester
I am looking at some search results, it looks like I am supposed to go to the password URL, get a hash of my password, then add that to my config file, then use the password when I log in
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AndySylvester
I didn't see that last night when I worked on it
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aaronpk
I added the php-mf2 parser, but it's kind of finicky right now with the feeds it accepts. I currently have been able to subscribe to these feeds: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2809/12800072283_c6dde479c8_z.jpg
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aaronpk
although I'm not entirely convinced it's actually finding stuff from all of those
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@JimIvers
Sound’s like “own your data” to me @Covata #ownyourdata #RSAC
(twitter.com/_/status/438775635431792641)
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aaronpk
yeah once you add the hash to the config it should prompt you for the password
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AndySylvester
I added the subscription file from Amber's post on the Selfoss reader, it seems like there are several feeds that the reader is not recognizing
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aaronpk
that is quite likely. like I said I did a bare minimum feed parsing just to see some stuff
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aaronpk
it needs a lot more work to handle all the edge cases of everyone's feeds
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AndySylvester
I appreciate your work on this, I am planning to spend some time playing with this reader.
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AndySylvester
I will not be at the meeting tonight, but I will be posting a HOWTO on setting up the Selfoss reader by Thursday or Friday.
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aaronpk
cool. i think it's a good starting point, I have plans to make it more indiewebby https://github.com/aaronpk/selfoss/issues
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aaronpk
like, sign in with indieauth, make an inline reply feature so you can quickly reply to things, make the star button post a like on your site, etc
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AndySylvester
sounds good, I just looked at your list
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@6a68
@reid you could publish tweets on your own site and syndicate out to twitter, #indieweb style: http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE
(twitter.com/_/status/438778624334782464)
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aaronpk
keybase.io is interesting
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aaronpk
fascinating that it's made by two of the okcupid founders
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snarfed
it's indieauth pki
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KartikPrabhu
interesting find. Though I must admit to being a bit confused as to how/why/what is useful
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aaronpk
this is nice: "When the keybase client requests maria's key from the keybase server, it does not simply trust the public key because it trusts the server.... Rather, the server replies with links to tweets, gists, etc. -- maria's public identity proofs. The keybase client does not trust that these are honest, so it scrapes them directly and makes sure they were signed by the same public key that the
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aaronpk
server provided."
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tantek
good afternoon #indiewebcamp!
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aaronpk
good afternoon!
anselm, paulcp, tilgovi, josephboyle1, bret, jkphl, brian_b, eschnou, etymancer, pfenwick and gRegor` joined the channel
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gRegor`
Hello, hello
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Jeena
aaronpk is that screenshot a h-feed reader list of subscriptions?
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aaronpk
yes those are the feeds I've added
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Jeena
I have another one at https://jeena.net/notes
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Jeena
I did some speed up of my website today and got the response time down from 400ms to 200ms, but I don't think I will be able to get much faster because of the rails overhead.
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aaronpk
wow really? what's the delay from? i'm pretty sure i've seen rails sites go faster
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Jeena
this is without cache#
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Jeena
I don't know really, I only have one call to the database
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Jeena
I cache the webmentions counter in a seperate row in the same table
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Jeena
or hm yeah if I call it locally on my computer it is 50ms
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Jeena
so the rest is network because my server is in Germany and I sit in Sweden
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Jeena
and I use nginx as a proxy server and puma as my http server
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Jeena
perhaps I just need more knowledge about this stuff
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Jeena
Hehe I even removed all JavaScript because I only need it for my admin stuff, so it is unnecessary to load it for everyone else too
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aaronpk
yeah if it's just network lag then there's not a ton you can do about it i suppose
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Jeena
On my front page there are only 2 GET requests, one for the HTML and one for the css file, this is quite amazing :)
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Jeena
on notes there is another one for the avatar
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Jeena
but I am thinking if I shouldn't make it into a data-uri and put it into the css too
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tantek
Jeena - well done with reducing down to two get requests!
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tantek
is nowhere near that yet.
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tantek
aaronpk - mind if I embed your screenshot on the reader page?
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aaronpk
tantek: sure! i have another better one in a recent note of mine
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tantek
oh ok
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tantek
are you looking at the u-photo of the h-feed
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tantek
or just the -u-photo of the p-author h-card of the h-feed
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Jeena
I wonder why my avatar isn't showing up in there
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tantek
same here (I'm guessing due to my h-card not having it)
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aaronpk
oh wait that's for an individual entry
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aaronpk
hm maybe it's looking for the favicon then
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tantek
not the h-feed u-photo?
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aaronpk
well I don't see any place in the class where it asks for the feed photo
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tantek
so where is it getting the icons from?
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aaronpk
no idea, somewhere up the stack of selfoss
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Jeena
ab but the first if ->items !== false prevents it
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aaronpk
Jeena: that should find it for the individual entry
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aaronpk
seriously I did this in like 30 minutes, cut me some slack :)
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Jeena
yeah, I don't have it on the intex page in the individual entry
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tantek
aaronpk - no it's awesome - mostly just asking from the perspective of figuring out what's wrong with my site markup ;)
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aaronpk
the main thing I learned doing this so quickly is that there are already a ton of edge cases with everyone's feeds
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Jeena
because I didn't want to repeat that info 80 times on the index page
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aaronpk
e.g. whether entries on the home page contain a p-author, or even whether a home page h-card contains a photo
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tantek
aaronpk - those aren't edge cases - those are the broad spectrum of personal design decisions
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aaronpk
er, right
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tantek
"edge case" implies there is a "common cluster", an 80% behavior. whereas from my manual analysis of h-feeds, they're all pretty different
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Jeena
yeah I'm one of those who doesn't really want a h-card on the homepage, even though I added it as <data> now so it is there for h-feed
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tantek
diverse cases, rather than edge cases
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aaronpk
the fact that Mf2\getAuthor exists saves me a ton of custom code here, so that was nice
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tantek
Jeena - I suppose I should write-up more "why" for why an h-card on your home page is a good thing
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Jeena
I think it falls in like with your people centric design, which I haven't fallen in love with yet.
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tantek
well that's certainly *one* reason, but I think there are others
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tantek
e.g. replacement for OpenID attribute exchange
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Jeena
I could agree with that but I would rather have stuff like this on a /about page
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tantek
Jeena - that's allowed!
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tantek
with rel=me
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tantek
from your home page to your about page
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tantek
or your /contact page
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tantek
it's an explicit case that RelMeAuth was designed to handle
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Jeena
hm ok, so a feed reader would need to handle that case?
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tantek
Jeena - that's a good point, I should document that.
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tantek
the RelMeAuth use cases were designed for existing site designs
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tantek
and the two dominate uses we saw were home page h-card, and contact page h-card
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tantek
so it makes sense to build all the site feed/author discovery algorithms on the same use cases
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tantek
thinks about post authorship vs site authorship algorithms
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@nodenpm
lookup-webmention-server (0.2.0): https://www.npmjs.org/package/lookup-webmention-server Discover the webmention server for a given URL
(twitter.com/_/status/438805613293105152)
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Jeena
hm but I have a rel="me" which points to Twitter/Facebook/Github/Flickr already, how would the reader know which one of them is my /about or /contact page?
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tantek
it looks for same domain
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Jeena
ah, that is good
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@npm_tweets
lookup-webmention-server 0.2.0 https://www.npmjs.org/package/lookup-webmention-server Discover the webmention server for a given URL
(twitter.com/_/status/438805791852609536)
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Jeena
I should read the links you post not just skim over them ^^
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tantek
it's ok. I should write the text assuming skimming behavior :)
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@nodenpm
webmention-client (0.1.0): https://www.npmjs.org/package/webmention-client A client to ping webmention servers
(twitter.com/_/status/438808131079266304)
scor joined the channel
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Jeena
so, am I understand it correctly that I can remove the h-card from the homepage and instead add <a href="/about" rel="me">about</a> to it?
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Jeena
s/understand/understanding
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Loqi
Jeena meant to say: so, am I understanding it correctly that I can remove the h-card from the homepage and instead add <a href="/about" rel="me">about</a> to it?
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Jeena
hm, that doesn't seem to work.
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tantek
what do you mean by "work" ?
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tantek
do you mean with IndieAuth?
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Jeena
and it said it couldn't find an h-card when I removed the one from the homepage and only linked to the /about page with rel=me
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tantek
right it probably doesn't do the full RelMeAuth algorithm
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tantek
perhaps I should expand the authorship algorithm accordingly explicitly
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tantek
because I think IndieWebifyme just follows that
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Jeena
I will try it with the wiki too
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tantek
so the problem may be the tool rather than your markup
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Jeena
the wiki says:
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Jeena
/about This is not a supported authentication provider.
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Jeena
or it is the indieauth.com website which the wiki uses
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tantek.com
edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (+821) "/* Official Guest List */ add headings for Creators, Apprentices, and add my apprentice Dan Gillmor who will be attending both days"
(view diff)
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tantek
Jeena - I'm pretty sure the current IndieAuth implementation did not yet implement that part of the RelMeAuth algorithm
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tantek
but fortunately it only depends on rel-me links - not your full hCard
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tantek
so you can keep rel-me links on your home page root for now for IndieAuth
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Jeena
ok, yeah it is understandable
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tantek
while moving your full h-card to your /about page
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Jeena
I am the edge case!
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tantek
yes Jeena, you're special :)
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Jeena
that is what my mom always said :-p
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tantek.com
edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (-138) "fix some table stuffs"
(view diff)
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tantek
snarfed FYI ^^^ re: my apprentice Dan Gillmor
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snarfed
oh man, really?
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snarfed
that's awesome!
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tantek
just confirmed for both days
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tantek
next week is going to be amazing
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snarfed
for my part, i'm leaning on mark hendrickson, he's back in the area and free those days
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tantek
and let that be a challenge to you to go out and find another apprentice
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tantek
definitely get him signed up - he should be able to use his own domain these days ;)
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tantek
if not, make him your apprentice :D
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Loqi
benwerd: tantek left you a message 2 days, 6 hours ago: when did you implement site search on werd.io, and what backend does it use?
#
Loqi
benwerd: tantek left you a message 2 days, 6 hours ago: when did you implement site search on werd.io, and what backend does it use?
#
Loqi
benwerd: tantek left you a message 2 days, 6 hours ago: when did you implement site search on werd.io, and what backend does it use?
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tantek
oh sorry about the dups
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Loqi
benwerd: tantek left you a message 2 days, 6 hours ago: could you create an indie event for http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-02-26-homebrew-website-club and POSSE FB event too? It's in 2 days!
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Loqi
benwerd: tantek left you a message 2 days, 6 hours ago: could you create an indie event for http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-02-26-homebrew-website-club and POSSE FB event too? It's in 2 days!
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tantek
make that, it's today
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benwerd
indeed. will do that. sorry, I've been in day-job-nightmare-land
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KartikPrabhu
Jeena, tantek: I also want to keep my h-card on the /above page, but yeah does not work with indieauth yet
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KartikPrabhu
about not above
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benwerd
tantek: in answer to your first question: from day one, and it's using the mongodb back-end.
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benwerd
although looking at elasticsearch.
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tantek
KartikPrabhu - you can keep a handful of rel-me links on your home page for IndieAuth and then keep your full h-card on your /about page
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tantek
see above re: what Jeena is doing
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KartikPrabhu
yeah. that is the current plan
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tantek
benwerd, do you have an ISO Date form of "day one" ?
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benwerd
two secs, I'll go back and look
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benwerd
ok, not quite day one.
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benwerd
tantek: June 20, 2013