#indiewebcamp 2014-02-26

2014-02-26 UTC
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caseorganic KevinMarks2: could totally do a larger event there, but would be best to do sat and sunday
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caseorganic KevinMarks2: there's a conf in the way that i need to fly out to on sunday
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caseorganic KevinMarks2: i'd really like to get a lot of stuff done in a small group for the first in sf
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caseorganic KevinMarks2: for a larger one to occur we need more onboarding pages
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KevinMarks2 I get that. I think this would work as a future expansion. They are very supportive, and relatively inexpensive
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willnorris.com edited /IRC_People (+61) "add willnorris" (view diff)
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KevinMarks2 I put some pics on g+
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KevinMarks2 As I don't have camlistore working on my phone yet
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KevinMarks so I should tell Neo we're good for 7-8th march
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KevinMarks and that we'd liek to use them in future?
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KevinMarks whats a good way to post pix here?
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tantek KevinMarks what's Neo?
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tantek checks logs
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KevinMarks Neo is Digitat Garage's co in SF - 717 Market at 3rd
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tantek agrees with all of caseorganic's points.
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tantek Kevinmarks, your statement "we're good for 7-8th march" out of context sounded like you were trying to move the venue to Neo!
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KevinMarks sorry
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tantek caseorganic, I *strongly* agree that the first of something needs to be smaller, more intimate.
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tantek too much space/emptiness and it feels empty/sad.
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KevinMarks I was looking into Neo, 'cos I din't know Embassy was settled.
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KevinMarks fair - they have several spaces
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tantek KevinMarks - gotta keep up with http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:RecentChanges ;)
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KevinMarks heh
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tantek that's our sync-point / semaphore
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KevinMarks I checked yesterday when I set up the neo meeting
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tantek caseorganic - we should work to "sell out" IndieWebCampSF and start a waitlist ASAP
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tantek KevinMarks - did you add Neo to the list of candidates and note you were asking them? We've been asynchronously working on several venues in parallel for a while (including MozSF, github, etc.) using the wiki as a place to keep that incremental state.
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tantek oh hey caseorganic is back
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tantek repeats himself, apologies
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tantek caseorganic, I *strongly* agree that the first of something needs to be smaller, more intimate.
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KevinMarks I didn't add to wiki, sorry
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tantek caseorganic - we should work to "sell out" IndieWebCampSF and start a waitlist ASAP.
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KevinMarks agree about intimacy
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KevinMarks not trying to reset decision
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tantek np, just making sure there wasn't some other coordination point you were trying to use
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KevinMarks I know that event size tends to grow too fast here, so a bigger space could be good for next time.
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tantek I hope so
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tantek That would be a good problem to have
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sparverius guess ill help out at iwcsf
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sparverius if you need it
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tantek sparverius - we do!
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tantek It takes a village and all that :)
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KevinMarks https://plus.google.com/u/0/+KevinMarks/posts/JENvZUFDnMZ
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KevinMarks pix of neo space
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tantek.com moved /2014/SF_Guest_List to /2014/SF/Guest_List "consistent path with others"
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tantek.com edited /Guest_List (-1) "update sidebar link" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (-30) "use wiki local link and just link the text" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Planning (-7) "update sidebar link" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Schedule (-7) "update sidebar link" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Sponsors (+159) "2014 SF" (view diff)
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tantek sparverius - could you add yourself here? http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF#Volunteers
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tantek willnorris - there are plenty of nice places to get dinner nearby on Haight Street
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tantek just a few blocks walk
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tantek we can do a mass walk over just like we did at IndieWebCamp2013 dinner in PDX.
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willnorris yeah. we should go ahead and reserve space for this size group though
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tantek we can do that closer to the date as we get a better handle on actual numberse
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willnorris sgtm
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tantek Indian Oven on Fillmore & Haight st is a good place that can likely handle us
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tantek there's also Green Burger
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4c4d.com edited /2014/SF (+12) "/* Volunteers */" (view diff)
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sparverius hmm i might only be able to attend though
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sparverius but i'd like to volunteer lol
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tantek KevinMarks - that URL requires a login (pix of neo space) - can you share somewhere without a login wall?
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tantek "Sign in to continue to Google+ " - no good
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tantek.com created /2015/SF (+481) "stub something to at least keep track for next year" (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks, then add links / embeds of said photos to: http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF
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caseorganic KevinMarks: tantek: aaronpk: talking with someone about using microformats vs. schema - can you help with arguments?
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sparverius oh shit it's the 8th. sorry guys, no go for me D:
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sparverius fffff
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4c4d.com edited /2014/SF (-14) "/* Volunteers */ Sorry, bad at planning :(" (view diff)
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tantek caseorganic, open with a community behind it. vs. owned by Google with patents and ZERO community.
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tantek oh, and the best reason, microformats are less work
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caseorganic tantek: will google block microformats in the future in favor of schema only?
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caseorganic tantek: at a local data conf and talking with someone about which format for lots and lots of his data
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tantek caseorganic - WTF? Why would anyone ask such a negatively framed question? Sounds like you're talking with a troll.
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caseorganic tantek: i have not provided enough context
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tantek When has google "block[ed]" anything?!?
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caseorganic tantek: looking for a positive response
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tantek no seriously - anyone who thinks in terms of Google "blocking" something has a problem
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tantek or is a spammer
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tantek SEO type person
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tantek Google blocks spam sites, not technologies
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sparverius the only way to get google to block you is to get DMCA'd or be such a tremendous douchebag that nothing of value was lost
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caseorganic tantek: he hasn't heard of microformats before
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tantek sparverius, right
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caseorganic tantek: so i was explaining that there were options
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tantek caseorganic, he must be new to web development then
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tantek is he an SEO Marketer person?
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sparverius and what exactly does blocked mean because occasionally people get googlesmacked for having sites that load realllly slowly
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sparverius and shit like that
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tantek sparverius, right, it's specific to *content* and *sites*, not technology
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tantek caseorganic: http://tantek.com/2013/219/t20/osfw3c-schema-org-bad-for-open-web
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tantek I'll put it bluntly: schemaorg is bad for the open web. period.
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tantek caseorganic, more on my archive page for that day: http://tantek.com/2013/219
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tantek (not linked from anywhere, but you know, URLs should be hackable by default ;) )
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caseorganic tantek: can you describe more about people in seo and schema?
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tantek caseorganic - what's there to describe? you're familiar with SEO Marketers (AKA spammers) right?
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caseorganic tantek: yes
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tantek they're the ones always worried about being "blocked"
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tantek so when someone asks a question like that, they give away their background mindset/perspective
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caseorganic tantek: so just ignore them if they ask questions? what is the protocol?
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tantek what do you tell a snake oil salesperson?
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tantek or someone who works for a polluting industry?
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tantek SEO Marketers / spammers are web polluters
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tantek so you could try a couple of approaches:
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tantek 1. Socratic method - ask them what they're trying to do, why, and keep digging until you get to a profit/selfish motivation and see if they understand or care that their behavior is bad for the web.
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Loqi that doesn't make sense
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KartikPrabhu Loqi lol
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Loqi is done
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caseorganic lol
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caseorganic gives Loqi a cookie
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Loqi eats the cookie
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sparverius 1.
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sparverius darn i thought it was loqibot freaking out
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tantek 2. or troll them with rabbitholes and friction. E.g. suggest that they look into RDFa.
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tantek I prefer to use (1) because I like to think most people want to do the right thing and are just unaware that they're being bad citizens.
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tantek but if they're clearly an unsavable SMD, then (2) can be done in a tongue in cheek way
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tantek preferably AFTER they admit that they don't care about polluting the web
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caseorganic tantek: unfortunately the question about google blocking microformats was my question, so i am the snake oil salesperson :(
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KevinMarks lost the thread there as my mac rebooted for the OS X update
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tantek caseorganic, what made you come up with the use of that word "blocking" ?
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tantek KevinMarks logs! :)
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KevinMarks reading 'em
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KevinMarks heh
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KevinMarks there is endless debate about what is parsed by whom. Google does parse microformats, and their own tools show it
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KevinMarks and they are very easy to add to web templates, unlike schema stuff which is very structured
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KevinMarks reads scrollback - if we go out near indieweb, don't wear Glasss in case of Haight crimes
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tantek caseorganic, can you trace the provenance of your thought process that resulted in typing "block[ing]"?
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tantek caseorganic, stack dump?
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caseorganic tantek: yep, but you won't like the answer
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caseorganic tantek: i'll be more careful asking questions in the future
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tantek introspection is useful either way
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tantek if we can trace an idea to its genesis we can alter its propagation in the future
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KevinMarks we did have to explain why rel-tag was not pollution to google at one point
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tantek KevinMarks - no we had to explain why technorati.com/tag/ pages were not pollution to google at some point
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tantek there was never a problem with rel-tag
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tantek and it was not pollution, but rather, Google not wanting to index "search results"
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tantek originally technorati.com/tag/ pages *only* showed posts/photos/links etc. that were all EXPLICITLY tagged by the people posting them. So it was a *set* that made sense to index.
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tantek but then out of a misplaced sense of "usability" someone in product (pretty sure guy who's name started with D) decided to make /tag/ pages show *search* results and not just explicitly tagged things. And that was the huge mistake that made Google want to punish those pages for.
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tantek s/who's/whose
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Loqi tantek meant to say: but then out of a misplaced sense of "usability" someone in product (pretty sure guy whose name started with D) decided to make /tag/ pages show *search* results and not just explicitly tagged things. And that was the huge mistake that made Google want to punish those pages for.
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tantek caseorganic, be careful not with the asking of questions, but how you choose to think about them - that's the key
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tantek if you've already thought the misframed thought - it's too late
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tantek matters less if you speak it out loud or not - your view has been (mis)shaped already which may affect your future statements
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KevinMarks2 Right Tantek. That we were indexing other tagspaces than just our own helped with the explanation
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tantek more than indexing - we were *collecting*
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tantek you could paginate through the entire collection
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tantek there was an aspect of comprehensiveness and precision
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tantek which "search results" lack
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aaronpk ok so i'm working on getting my instagram photos on my site (https://github.com/aaronpk/p3k/issues/29) and I need a name for this thing
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aaronpk it's actually going to be set up like bridgy where anybody can use it if they support photo posts from their micropub API
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aaronpk I'm thinking... "ownyourgram"
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aaronpk [y/n]?
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aaronpk basically it's pesos as a service
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aaronpk for instagram
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: selfgram?
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aaronpk something tells me the .com is not available
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acegiak so here's a question. If I reblog, comment on and like a post/note/whatever. should htat appear as one h-entry or multiple on my site?
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aaronpk heh, I don't think I've seen that before
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aaronpk well you've seen Twitter's UI for that right?
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acegiak checking to refresh myself?
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aaronpk trying to find an example
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aaronpk i know i've done it a couple times
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aaronpk apparently it's been a long time since i've rewteeted anything
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KevinMarks2 I have pestagram.com if you want it
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aaronpk gah they changed it
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acegiak lol
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acegiak the question is really, do we consider an h-entry to be an action or a piece of content?
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aaronpk that is a great way to put it
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KevinMarks2 I think of hentry as a noun.
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aaronpk ok here is twitter's current UI for that: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7396/12784686535_79859ec592_z.jpg
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acegiak so then it can have multiple verbs attached?
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aaronpk that is looking at my timeline
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KevinMarks2 Post or repost as a verb
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aaronpk yes. although if the content is not your own, you should use h-cite instead of h-entry I think.
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KevinMarks2 Aaron posted, acegiak reposted? Or shared?
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aaronpk the h-cite gives you the place to put your annotations (like, repost, or even additional text) and the h-entry inside would be the original post with the author's own h-card.
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acegiak I'm just trying to work out how to handle multiple verbs
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aaronpk does that sound reasonable tantek? ^^
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KevinMarks2 Hmm. Well then the entry is your past and the cite is the repost?
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acegiak that sounds about right
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acegiak one thing I'm noticing is I've got a lot of posts on my site when I just reblog something without comment so the content section of my h-entry is empty because the importance is the verb and the h-cite
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aaronpk huh, "repost" isn't listed on the h-cite page http://indiewebcamp.com/h-cite
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acegiak so my h-cites also have p-in-reply-to even when I'm not posting additional comment
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tantek.com edited /h-feed (+105) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ credit Sandeep Shetty with encouragement" (view diff)
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tantek owngram?
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tantek scrolls up
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tantek aaronpk, re: ownyourgram - was owngram taken?
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aaronpk no, that didn't occur to me
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aaronpk I like the rhythm of ownyourgram
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aaronpk parallels instagram better
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tantek ownagram
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tantek yeah, and ownyourdata
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aaronpk right
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tantek aaonpk, not sure I understand the question about "sound reasonable"?
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aaronpk oh I dont have much experience with h-cite (i'm only using it for reply context, and may even be using it wrong still)
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aaronpk i haven't thought about publishing reposts yet at all
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tantek I think I use it in rely-contexts
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aaronpk wow. just wow. http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/oauth/current/msg12466.html
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tommorris overnight, I seem to have registered a domain purely for the purpose of comedy (completelyheterosexual.com) and built out most of the implementation of webmentions on my site
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tommorris also redirected blog.tommorris.org to tommorris.org
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tommorris thus cutting the Tumblr ties.
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aaronpk productive!
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Loqi [mention] http://nxd4n.nixekinder.be/was-mir-noch-zu-reclaim-einfallt/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (pingback)
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tantek tommorris - awesome!!!
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tantek aaronpk - wow that's pretty messed up. also - I have no idea who any of these people are.
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tantek or what companies they represent
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tantek where is this OAuth/OpenID meeting happening anyway?
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aaronpk no idea. i can't keep track of all of this anymore.
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aaronpk oauth has splintered off into like 6 different groups, and they all seem to have various meetings or conference calls at different times to discuss things.
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aaronpk s/things/Things
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Loqi aaronpk meant to say: oauth has splintered off into like 6 different groups, and they all seem to have various meetings or conference calls at different times to discuss Things.
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aaronpk meanwhile, *actual* oauth continues to solidify itself and demonstrate what people actually care about (see recent advancements in the UI from companies like Github where they let you generate multiple access tokens for your own account by clicking a button)
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Loqi [mention] http://nxd4n.nixekinder.be/was-mir-noch-zu-reclaim-einfallt/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://nxd4n.nixekinder.be/was-mir-noch-zu-reclaim-einfallt/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (pingback)
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tommorris holds breath and attempts to deploy webmention code to tommorris.org
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Jeena is it possible to markup my h-card with a photo but without using <img src="/avatar.jpg"> for it? Because even if if I do display: none
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Jeena on it, the browsers load it anyway
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Jeena oh hell yeah, thanks to tanteks explanation yesterday about the prefixes of microformats I did: <span class="p-photo">https://jeena.net/avatar.jpg</a>
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Jeena and it works!
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Jihaisse <span</a> ?
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Jihaisse <a></a> non ?
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Jihaisse no
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barnabywalters or you can do <data class="p-photo" value="http://..."></data>
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tantek Jeena or an empty <a href> too if you want take advantage of u- parsing rules
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tantek e.g. <a class="u-photo" href="avatar.jpg"></a>
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Jeena ah, but <data> looks cooler and I never used it, so data it is :-D
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tantek yes, <data> is technically the better choice for such invisible things
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Jeena I could do the whole h-card in <data>, oh the possibilities!
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tantek true! but since you already have the information visible on the page, might as well mark that part up at least
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Jeena I don't have it visible, and I kind of don't want it either for now
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tantek indeed that's your design choice! will be interesting to see how you feel a year from now, how your design evolves etc.
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adactio Indie Web friends, this event in Düsseldorf in May (right after the Beyond Tellerrand conference) will be very Indie Webish and they're looking for workshop and speaking proposals: http://decentralizecamp.com/
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Jeena Yeah, I feel like change about once every one or two years
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barnabywalters decentralizecamp doesn’t seem very focused on building things — “This camp is about defining the status quo, about exchanging ideas, making plans and moving forward” is very vague
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tobiastom barnabywalters: that idea is to raise awareness for the indie web. telling people why it is important and that we still could live in a social world, even when we don't use all the services out there. It's about getting more people into the indie bubble, not scaring them away with technical details. :)
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tobiastom looking into the log to check if the message came through… strange feeling.
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barnabywalters yep, I got it :) freenode has been really flaky recently
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tobiastom looks more like my connection is really messy today :)
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barnabywalters tobiastom: charging an entrance fee seems like it would be contrary to that goal — why would someone who doesn’t understand the problems care enough to pay to get in? maybe you can find a sponsor who’ll cover those costs
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barnabywalters I’m assuming by your stance that you’re involved with organising decentcamp?
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tobiastom barnabywalters: hm. that's a very valid point. I've not even seen that it costs something, I just "know" they guys that organize it.
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tobiastom nope. not really. but I'll forward your point :)
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barnabywalters tobiastom: thanks!
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snarfed Jeena, just fyi, i'm seeing webmention failures on jeena.net: https://www.brid.gy/#facebook-728407677
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@PodcastFrance J'écoute #onvar épisode 21 de @IndieWebRecords => http://indiewebrecordings.com/podcasts/onvar/Onvar-Episode-21.mp3 via @Podcast_Addict (twitter.com/_/status/438710553675304960)
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@IndieWebRecords RT @PodcastFrance: J'écoute #onvar épisode 21 de @IndieWebRecords => http://indiewebrecordings.com/podcasts/onvar/Onvar-Episode-21.mp3 via @Podcast_Addict (twitter.com/_/status/438711442033111040)
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marcthiele Hi
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marcthiele Hi heard from Tobias, that a question was raised, why we charge about 20 to 25 Euro for the Decentralize Camp?
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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barnabywalters morning tantek
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barnabywalters greetings marcthiele!
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tantek marcthiele is there an FAQ you can point to?
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marcthiele hey tantek
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marcthiele The money is only taken to give out free drinks (Coffee, Tea, Soft Drinks and Beer) plus food (lunch, bffet stile)
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barnabywalters marcthiele: for more context here’s the discussion: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-26#t1393427181
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marcthiele Yep. Seen it. Cheers.
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marcthiele Tantek, I sent you an email a few days ago with the link to the concept
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barnabywalters so the question is not “why the cost” (that much is explained by the website) — the question is, if this event is aimed at non-technical people as tobiastom posited, what will make them care enough to pay the entrance fee?
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caseorga_ morning!
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marcthiele As said: The entrance fee is for the full day covering just the cost for their lunch and drinks.
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barnabywalters morning caseorga_
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tantek marcthiele - hmm email - might have gotten lost. sorry!
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marcthiele The reason for not having the registration yet is, that I am still waiting for the estimated cost of the lunch.
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tantek marcthiele - it's cool - organizing these things is always a challenge. totally sympathize.
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tantek the more you can document it (the whole process) openly, the better.
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tantek heck, we do all our indiewebcamp organizing live publicly on the wiki.
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marcthiele So ppl you mention, @barnabywalters, should be ok with paying for this, even if they are non-tech
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tantek marcthiele - definitely recommend putting all that in an FAQ
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marcthiele Good point, tantek. We just launched the basic site yesterday, Bastian and me.
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barnabywalters marcthiele: if you say so :) just wondering
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marcthiele Yep organizing stuff like this is always a nice task.
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marcthiele Am running beyond tellerrand in May and Bastian and I are setting up this camp as we think it is a good chance to get some awareness for this topic, as 500 ppl are already there for beyond tellerrand anyways.
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barnabywalters marcthiele: ah great, so you have a big pool of people in the right place at the right time
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barnabywalters that’s a strategy which has always worked out well for indiewebcamp
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marcthiele barnabywalters: I can't guarantee, but it is a try. And I am thinking positive that thi is understandable
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marcthiele barnabywalters: Yep. That is the plan. Hope it works out.
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tobiastom hey marc
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tantek marcthiele tobiastom great having you here in the channel too!
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marcthiele hey tobiastom
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marcthiele tantek, the thing I was initing you is a draft and we'd love a few people who know more than us to check it before we throw it out. We are quite new to this topic and guess we'll fail at many things first;)
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marcthiele is taking care of the kids now. Dinner time. Back later.
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MattBeran Level of effort estimate: 2 hours to learn and setup IRC. First timer.
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barnabywalters welcome MattBeran!
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MattBeran ty @barnabywalters!
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barnabywalters how did you find out about indiewebcamp?
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MattBeran Noob question on IRC - does your name color indicate something?
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MattBeran Blue vs. orange?
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barnabywalters MattBeran: what client are you using?
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MattBeran Byrd (Chrome extension)
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barnabywalters e.g I’m using colloquy, and my name is red whereas everyone else is orange
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MattBeran Ah - context! Love. Thank you.
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MattBeran I had lunch with @CaseOrganic two days ago and she mentioned indieweb - I saw it as an opportunity to learn and grow.
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barnabywalters nice, working on your own site is a great way to expand your skill set, as well as push the boundaries of what’s possible on the web
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barnabywalters do you have a personal domain already?
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barnabywalters MattBeran: “read somewhere” — do you have a link to where you read that?
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barnabywalters if there are specific issues you might be able to address them in the client
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barnabywalters otherwise it’s a bit too vague to make any particular suggestions based on :)
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MattBeran Yes - had one for a while mattberan.com - but it's tumblr redirect. I use wordpress on productivecast.com. I know HTML/CSS/Design tools very well, and Javascript only slightly well.
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MattBeran RE: Security: Perfect, I'll research the client and configure - thanks
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barnabywalters MattBeran: tumblr is a good platform to start on/grow from, and you've got your own domain which is the important thing.
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barnabywalters there are some guides to adding basic indieweb support like microformats markup to tumblr on the wiki: http://indiewebcamp.com/Tumblr
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MattBeran I have to explore the wiki - is there a "getting started" guide for indiecamp newbs?
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barnabywalters e.g. tommorris used to have a blog hosted on tumblr but has moved to his own software without breaking any links
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barnabywalters MattBeran: there is indeed: http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started
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barnabywalters also check out http://indiewebify.me for some guidance and tools
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MattBeran Perfection. Thank you so much for setting me on the right path - you have saved me countless hours!
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barnabywalters and please don’t hesitate to ask questions here if anything is confusing — we’re always looking to improve our documentation :)
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tommorris barnabywalters: done by pointing blog.tommorris.org to tommorris-redir.herokuapp.com which then sends the user on to tommorris.org/post/redirect?url={original URL}
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tommorris and tommorris.org looks up the URL in the DB.
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tommorris with some fuzzy matching rules
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barnabywalters tommorris: nice, is that approach (esp. the fuzzy matching rules) documented anywhere?
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tommorris no, I need to write a “what I’ve been doing with my site” post in the next day or so
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tommorris the fuzzy matching rule is stripping the post slug off and matching against post ID. ;)
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barnabywalters tommorris: yeah that would be great, maybe a how-to or link on iwc/Tumblr like “how to keep tumblr links working when you move to a self-hosted system”
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KartikPrabhu nice article by adactio: http://adactio.com/journal/6692/
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tommorris “The web is a platform” logic is silly, because “iOS is a platform” log is also silly.
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tommorris If you write an iOS app, you may have functionality which is only available on certain device or OS version combinations
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tommorris Which is fine. But the web having the same thing for browsers is considered a bug. ;)
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KartikPrabhu true. but in some sense it is more pronounced in browsers... which is fine
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aaronpk so github is releasing an editor named "atom" https://github.com/atom
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snarfed aaronpk: heh. https://twitter.com/schnarfed/status/438501720792899584
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@schnarfed @tef looks like a cloud ide (twitter.com/_/status/438501720792899584)
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aaronpk at least they'll be taking up some of the airspace for the term "atom"
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snarfed true
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snarfed a friend of mine's kid is named atom
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aaronpk that's not gonna be confusing at all
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snarfed lol
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snarfed yeah, the adam kinda-collision is tough, but maybe also a bit easier than a truly weird name
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aaronpk "adam? no, atom"
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aaronpk sounds pretty much exactly the same in american english
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snarfed i kind of like it (we've been thinking about baby names ourselves.)
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snarfed yup
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ttepasse There must be something witty with future marriage and molecules in there.
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snarfed ttepasse++
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Loqi ttepasse has 2 karma
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tommorris.org edited /Events (+47) "/* See Also */" (view diff)
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tommorris.org created /possible_events (+466) "adding Paris 2014 suggestion" (view diff)
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aaronpk tommorris: are you on that email list where paris is being mentioned?
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aaronpk oh, yes
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tommorris yep, the point of it was to try and sneak people off mailing lists and onto wikis. ;)
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aaronpk excellent
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aaronpk are you going to reply with a link t othe wiki page to continue discussing there? :)
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aaronpk oh you beat me to it
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aaronpk wow
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aaronpk tommorris++
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Loqi tommorris has 16 karma
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aaronpk you are fast
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bret whoa, irc scrollback full of disconnects
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aaronpk freenode has been having a tough time
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snarfed turned off join/part messages ages ago and never looked back
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AndySylvester aaronpk, I have installed your fork of the Selfoss RSS reader, and I have two questions
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AndySylvester (1) have you tried the username/password feature?
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AndySylvester (2) what microformats parser support did you add?
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AndySylvester I have been unable to successfully use the username/password setup, and I noticed that the reader does not seem to recognize the microformat content I have
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aaronpk AndySylvester: it's still super experimental, I wouldn't necessarily recommend using it just yet.
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aaronpk but right now I log in with a username/password
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aaronpk (it was kind of weird to set up)
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AndySylvester I am looking at some search results, it looks like I am supposed to go to the password URL, get a hash of my password, then add that to my config file, then use the password when I log in
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AndySylvester I didn't see that last night when I worked on it
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aaronpk I added the php-mf2 parser, but it's kind of finicky right now with the feeds it accepts. I currently have been able to subscribe to these feeds: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2809/12800072283_c6dde479c8_z.jpg
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aaronpk although I'm not entirely convinced it's actually finding stuff from all of those
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@JimIvers Sound’s like “own your data” to me @Covata #ownyourdata #RSAC (twitter.com/_/status/438775635431792641)
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aaronpk yeah once you add the hash to the config it should prompt you for the password
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AndySylvester I added the subscription file from Amber's post on the Selfoss reader, it seems like there are several feeds that the reader is not recognizing
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aaronpk that is quite likely. like I said I did a bare minimum feed parsing just to see some stuff
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aaronpk it needs a lot more work to handle all the edge cases of everyone's feeds
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AndySylvester I appreciate your work on this, I am planning to spend some time playing with this reader.
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AndySylvester I will not be at the meeting tonight, but I will be posting a HOWTO on setting up the Selfoss reader by Thursday or Friday.
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aaronpk cool. i think it's a good starting point, I have plans to make it more indiewebby https://github.com/aaronpk/selfoss/issues
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aaronpk like, sign in with indieauth, make an inline reply feature so you can quickly reply to things, make the star button post a like on your site, etc
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AndySylvester sounds good, I just looked at your list
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@6a68 @reid you could publish tweets on your own site and syndicate out to twitter, #indieweb style: http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/438778624334782464)
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aaronpk keybase.io is interesting
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aaronpk fascinating that it's made by two of the okcupid founders
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snarfed PKI!
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snarfed it's indieauth pki
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aaronpk hackernews discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7235634
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KartikPrabhu interesting find. Though I must admit to being a bit confused as to how/why/what is useful
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aaronpk this is nice: "When the keybase client requests maria's key from the keybase server, it does not simply trust the public key because it trusts the server.... Rather, the server replies with links to tweets, gists, etc. -- maria's public identity proofs. The keybase client does not trust that these are honest, so it scrapes them directly and makes sure they were signed by the same public key that the
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aaronpk server provided."
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tantek good afternoon #indiewebcamp!
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aaronpk good afternoon!
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gRegor` Hello, hello
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Jeena aaronpk is that screenshot a h-feed reader list of subscriptions?
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aaronpk yes those are the feeds I've added
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Jeena I have another one at https://jeena.net/notes
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Jeena I did some speed up of my website today and got the response time down from 400ms to 200ms, but I don't think I will be able to get much faster because of the rails overhead.
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aaronpk wow really? what's the delay from? i'm pretty sure i've seen rails sites go faster
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Jeena this is without cache#
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Jeena I don't know really, I only have one call to the database
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Jeena I cache the webmentions counter in a seperate row in the same table
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Jeena or hm yeah if I call it locally on my computer it is 50ms
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Jeena so the rest is network because my server is in Germany and I sit in Sweden
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Jeena and I use nginx as a proxy server and puma as my http server
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Jeena perhaps I just need more knowledge about this stuff
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Jeena Hehe I even removed all JavaScript because I only need it for my admin stuff, so it is unnecessary to load it for everyone else too
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aaronpk nice!
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aaronpk yeah if it's just network lag then there's not a ton you can do about it i suppose
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Jeena On my front page there are only 2 GET requests, one for the HTML and one for the css file, this is quite amazing :)
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Jeena on notes there is another one for the avatar
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Jeena but I am thinking if I shouldn't make it into a data-uri and put it into the css too
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tantek Jeena - well done with reducing down to two get requests!
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tantek is nowhere near that yet.
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tantek aaronpk - mind if I embed your screenshot on the reader page?
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aaronpk tantek: sure! i have another better one in a recent note of mine
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tantek (or you can if you want - under https://indiewebcamp.com/reader#Aaron_Parecki)
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tantek oh ok
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tantek are you looking at the u-photo of the h-feed
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tantek or just the -u-photo of the p-author h-card of the h-feed
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Jeena I wonder why my avatar isn't showing up in there
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tantek same here (I'm guessing due to my h-card not having it)
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aaronpk right now it's this: https://github.com/aaronpk/selfoss/blob/master/spouts/microformats/feed.php#L241
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aaronpk oh wait that's for an individual entry
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Jeena yeah
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aaronpk hm maybe it's looking for the favicon then
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tantek not the h-feed u-photo?
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aaronpk well I don't see any place in the class where it asks for the feed photo
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tantek so where is it getting the icons from?
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Jeena but this should find it shouldn't it? https://github.com/aaronpk/selfoss/blob/master/spouts/microformats/feed.php#L249
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aaronpk no idea, somewhere up the stack of selfoss
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Jeena ab but the first if ->items !== false prevents it
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aaronpk Jeena: that should find it for the individual entry
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aaronpk seriously I did this in like 30 minutes, cut me some slack :)
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Jeena yeah, I don't have it on the intex page in the individual entry
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tantek aaronpk - no it's awesome - mostly just asking from the perspective of figuring out what's wrong with my site markup ;)
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aaronpk the main thing I learned doing this so quickly is that there are already a ton of edge cases with everyone's feeds
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Jeena because I didn't want to repeat that info 80 times on the index page
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aaronpk e.g. whether entries on the home page contain a p-author, or even whether a home page h-card contains a photo
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Jeena hehe
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tantek aaronpk - those aren't edge cases - those are the broad spectrum of personal design decisions
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aaronpk er, right
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aaronpk that
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Jeena haha
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tantek "edge case" implies there is a "common cluster", an 80% behavior. whereas from my manual analysis of h-feeds, they're all pretty different
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Jeena yeah I'm one of those who doesn't really want a h-card on the homepage, even though I added it as <data> now so it is there for h-feed
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tantek diverse cases, rather than edge cases
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aaronpk the fact that Mf2\getAuthor exists saves me a ton of custom code here, so that was nice
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tantek Jeena - I suppose I should write-up more "why" for why an h-card on your home page is a good thing
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Jeena I think it falls in like with your people centric design, which I haven't fallen in love with yet.
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tantek well that's certainly *one* reason, but I think there are others
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tantek e.g. replacement for OpenID attribute exchange
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Jeena I could agree with that but I would rather have stuff like this on a /about page
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tantek Jeena - that's allowed!
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tantek with rel=me
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tantek from your home page to your about page
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tantek or your /contact page
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tantek it's an explicit case that RelMeAuth was designed to handle
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tantek Jeena: http://microformats.org/wiki/relmeauth#users_with_separate_contact_pages
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Jeena hm ok, so a feed reader would need to handle that case?
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tantek Jeena - that's a good point, I should document that.
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tantek the RelMeAuth use cases were designed for existing site designs
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tantek and the two dominate uses we saw were home page h-card, and contact page h-card
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tantek so it makes sense to build all the site feed/author discovery algorithms on the same use cases
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Jeena sure
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tantek thinks about post authorship vs site authorship algorithms
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@nodenpm lookup-webmention-server (0.2.0): https://www.npmjs.org/package/lookup-webmention-server Discover the webmention server for a given URL (twitter.com/_/status/438805613293105152)
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Jeena hm but I have a rel="me" which points to Twitter/Facebook/Github/Flickr already, how would the reader know which one of them is my /about or /contact page?
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tantek it looks for same domain
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Jeena ah, that is good
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@npm_tweets lookup-webmention-server 0.2.0 https://www.npmjs.org/package/lookup-webmention-server Discover the webmention server for a given URL (twitter.com/_/status/438805791852609536)
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Jeena I should read the links you post not just skim over them ^^
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tantek it's ok. I should write the text assuming skimming behavior :)
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@nodenpm webmention-client (0.1.0): https://www.npmjs.org/package/webmention-client A client to ping webmention servers (twitter.com/_/status/438808131079266304)
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@npm_tweets webmention-client 0.1.0 https://www.npmjs.org/package/webmention-client A client to ping webmention servers (twitter.com/_/status/438808309093498880)
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@DrEpperly @aaronpk hey is this homebrew website meet up happening still? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-02-26-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/438810346522816512)
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Jeena so, am I understand it correctly that I can remove the h-card from the homepage and instead add <a href="/about" rel="me">about</a> to it?
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Jeena s/understand/understanding
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Loqi Jeena meant to say: so, am I understanding it correctly that I can remove the h-card from the homepage and instead add <a href="/about" rel="me">about</a> to it?
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Jeena hm, that doesn't seem to work.
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tantek what do you mean by "work" ?
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tantek do you mean with IndieAuth?
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Jeena I used http://indiewebify.me/ to check
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Jeena and it said it couldn't find an h-card when I removed the one from the homepage and only linked to the /about page with rel=me
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tantek right it probably doesn't do the full RelMeAuth algorithm
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tantek perhaps I should expand the authorship algorithm accordingly explicitly
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tantek because I think IndieWebifyme just follows that
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Jeena I will try it with the wiki too
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tantek so the problem may be the tool rather than your markup
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Jeena ok
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Jeena the wiki says:
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Jeena /about This is not a supported authentication provider.
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Jeena or it is the indieauth.com website which the wiki uses
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tantek.com edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (+821) "/* Official Guest List */ add headings for Creators, Apprentices, and add my apprentice Dan Gillmor who will be attending both days" (view diff)
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tantek Jeena - I'm pretty sure the current IndieAuth implementation did not yet implement that part of the RelMeAuth algorithm
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tantek but fortunately it only depends on rel-me links - not your full hCard
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tantek so you can keep rel-me links on your home page root for now for IndieAuth
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Jeena ok, yeah it is understandable
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tantek while moving your full h-card to your /about page
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Jeena I am the edge case!
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Jeena haha
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tantek yes Jeena, you're special :)
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Jeena that is what my mom always said :-p
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tantek.com edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (-138) "fix some table stuffs" (view diff)
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tantek snarfed FYI ^^^ re: my apprentice Dan Gillmor
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snarfed oh man, really?
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snarfed that's awesome!
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tantek just confirmed for both days
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tantek next week is going to be amazing
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snarfed for my part, i'm leaning on mark hendrickson, he's back in the area and free those days
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tantek and let that be a challenge to you to go out and find another apprentice
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tantek yeah! Mark was my apprentice in 2011! http://indiewebcamp.com/2011/Guest_List#Apprentices
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tantek definitely get him signed up - he should be able to use his own domain these days ;)
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tantek if not, make him your apprentice :D
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 2 days, 6 hours ago: when did you implement site search on werd.io, and what backend does it use?
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 2 days, 6 hours ago: when did you implement site search on werd.io, and what backend does it use?
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benwerd mmhm
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 2 days, 6 hours ago: when did you implement site search on werd.io, and what backend does it use?
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tantek oh sorry about the dups
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 2 days, 6 hours ago: could you create an indie event for http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-02-26-homebrew-website-club and POSSE FB event too? It's in 2 days!
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 2 days, 6 hours ago: could you create an indie event for http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-02-26-homebrew-website-club and POSSE FB event too? It's in 2 days!
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tantek make that, it's today
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benwerd indeed. will do that. sorry, I've been in day-job-nightmare-land
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KartikPrabhu Jeena, tantek: I also want to keep my h-card on the /above page, but yeah does not work with indieauth yet
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KartikPrabhu about not above
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benwerd tantek: in answer to your first question: from day one, and it's using the mongodb back-end.
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benwerd although looking at elasticsearch.
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tantek KartikPrabhu - you can keep a handful of rel-me links on your home page for IndieAuth and then keep your full h-card on your /about page
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tantek see above re: what Jeena is doing
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KartikPrabhu yeah. that is the current plan
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tantek benwerd, do you have an ISO Date form of "day one" ?
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benwerd heh
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benwerd two secs, I'll go back and look
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benwerd ok, not quite day one.
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benwerd tantek: June 20, 2013
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tantek nice