#indiewebcamp 2014-03-01

2014-03-01 UTC
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snarfed KevinMarks: seems ok to me. or does it not have its own domain?
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snarfed (i don't know its url)
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Loqi tantek: snarfed left you a message 1 hour, 2 minutes ago: remembered it a bit late, but i used to pay way too much attention to gift/prepaid cards. :P https://snarfed.org/privacy_through_prepaid_credit_cards
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tantek KevinMarks - how else do we anonymously post indieweb memes?
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tantek.com edited /homepage (+200) "contact links currently, brainstorm: payment links" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /payment (+1231) "stub a payment page with payment button link/button generators, why, article" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /payment (+287) "rel=payment on payment links" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /payment (-1) (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /reader (+320) "/* Aaron Parecki */ reading screenshot showing microformats based information coming through" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /reader (+77) "/* Amber Case */ add blog post for Amber's implementation" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /reader (+149) "unlink headings - first reference inside linked is enough, and heading links usually imply permalinks which these links are not, date since" (view diff)
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tantek snarfed, yes I think I've read your post on that before
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tantek and before I'm even done implementing the people focused comms UI on my homepage, the payment stuff popped in my head
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snarfed tantek: sorry to hear that. :P (re reading the post.) it's a good howto for a very specific use case, but not very interseting otherwise
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tantek there's a payment equivalent of the "Can We Talk?" problem http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/11/canwetalk/
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snarfed true!
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tantek "Can I pay you?"
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tantek seems to me an indieweb solution would help with this too
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tantek I already have encountered this problem with *non-tech* friends. Can I Square Cash you? You're only on Venmo?
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tantek etc.
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tantek do you know anyone in the community that has a "pay me" "donate" or "tip me" button on their indie web home page?
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gavinc tantek: not that I know of, friend tried rolling his own thing for a very short time and then just linked to bigcartel.com
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poppy from a friend: hackathon to improve the usability of anti-surveillance and anti-circumvention tools tomorrow and Sunday https://uxsprint.eventbrite.com - details are in here someplace https://surveillance.hackpad.com/San-Francisco-UX-Sprint-for-Security-Privacy-Tools-knGnPs8arv4
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aaronpk tantek: I've put pay/tip buttons on home pages of projects before
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aaronpk But not my personal site
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aaronpk I've seen some on other people's home pages tho
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KevinMarks Didn't we gather payment links on microformats?
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tantek KevinMarks - indeed, rel=payment was researched and drafted as a microformat ages ago. It's referenced in the new IndieWeb wiki page I created: http://indiewebcamp.com/payment
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KevinMarks http://microformats.org/wiki/payment-examples
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KevinMarks Recent examples there
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tantek I wonder how much people get randomly paid just for having links like that on their website
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KevinMarks Also seen bare Bitcoin and dogecoin addresses in plaintext
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aaronpk Wow lots of interesting stuff on those payments pages
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aaronpk Kind of funny we're back to the nascar problem with payments
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aaronpk There's a dozen ways to accept payments and all require the sender and receiver to have an account with the network
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tantek aaronpk - not that different from the dozen ways to do comms
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tantek hence the analogy to my blog post on that
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aaronpk Yea
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tantek maybe it's ok to have a pop-up of an icon of ways to pay (talk/message) someone
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tantek 5-7 choices ;)
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tantek I mean, at least it's a start
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aaronpk Certainly has to be ok for it to be useful right now
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tantek because the current situation is that people are now using different payment silos
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aaronpk The benefit you could provide by publishing that list on your site is the prioritized list
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tantek and just like comm protocols, it's not clear what everyone's preferred payment method is
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tantek bingo
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tantek just like comms
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tantek that's my point
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aaronpk Yep
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tantek it's what I ran into while implementing the comms icons as I said in my blog post
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tantek I was mostly through it and then the idea of payments popped in my head
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tantek this is a serious (personal) problem. being more than halfway done with something and then having a new idea for how to improve it.
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tantek or at least a new idea of how to think about it (perspective shift / growth)
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tantek so for now I just braindumped onto /payment and hope that's ok or others can contribute opinions (or poke holes in mine)
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aaronpk I should probably write a post on my personal experiences over the last 8 years of handling small-group payments
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tantek yeah
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tantek (oh wait, that's a pre-programmed Loqi response to "I should" ;) )
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Loqi yeah!
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tantek :D
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tantek pats Loqi on the head.
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aaronpk Every day I keep being more and more convinced that small closed-group payment systems are more "indie" than even things like bit coin
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tantek aaronpk, certainly more decentralized
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tantek by their very "small group" nature
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tantek bitcoin is still centralized in that the apps, services, etc. to use it are all centralized. it's not economically feasible to build your own bitcoin stack for using bitcoins.
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aaronpk And I still can't get behind needing to download the entire history of the currency in order to make a transaction. Even the dogecoin one is like 9gb and it's only ever growing
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tantek right. that. doesn't. scale.
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tantek also why I don't buy namecoin.
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tantek but I'm glad to see them happen as experiments to explore the space, especially the need for UI in the space.
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aaronpk Yep, a lot will be learned for sure
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tantek happy to sit back and watch for these
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aaronpk Same
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tantek now what I'm wondering is if there's a way to make the Paypal, Square Cash, or Venmo *apps* open on an iOS device with a special URL
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tantek like is "venmo:" a thing?
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aaronpk Tho I am running a doge coin miner because it's amusing
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tantek hah
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aaronpk The square cash app is funny cause all it does is open an email compose window!
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tantek which fails horribly if you don't have email setup on your device
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aaronpk Ha true
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tantek ahem. ;)
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tantek yeah I'm going to have to set it up on my laptop because people are now wanting to pay me back for stuff using square cash
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aaronpk Yea I don't have my personal email acct set up on the mail app so I can't use the square app either
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aaronpk It's pretty well done though!
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tantek it's more important to be setup to *receive* payment rather than send
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tantek incentives and all that ;)
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aaronpk I should put a cc form on my site using a stripe acct, then people could pay me using any credit card
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Loqi yea
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tantek unless you don't want to be hit by the fees
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tantek does it need to be a form? (post request?) or can you make it into a link?
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aaronpk They have a little JS dialog thingy
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aaronpk Could put it on a separate page and link to it
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aaronpk Like /payme
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tantek yeah. as I mentioned previously, I may or may not have bought squaremo (dotcom) to experiment with something like that.
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tantek (with the intent of telling friends, oh, just squaremo it to see if that "works")
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aaronpk Oh my
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aaronpk We should register the .pay TLD and set it up as a template for linking to all your various payment methods
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tantek if they ask me what it is, I'll say, oh it just gives you the choice of using either square cash or venmo!
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Loqi fo sho
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aaronpk stops trolling
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tantek then if that "works" (like friends use it to pay me back for stuff), then I might have to expand it to squaremo(dotcom)/name-or-domain
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tantek I think you see where I'm going with this
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KevinMarks I think dogecoin is interesting because of its velocity
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tantek going mobile.
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KevinMarks The daily volume is about the same as the total market value
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aaronpk Not quite sure I do see actually. What is going to be on this domain?
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KevinMarks Well, people accept things they want, others pay what they want
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KevinMarks Bitpay is a "convert Bitcoin to arbitrary currency" api
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pfenwick Such market. Many coin. Wow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3oiThw2RxE
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KevinMarks I do enjoy it at the Bitcoin events when the audience and
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KevinMarks S/and/asks about dogecoin and they have to pretend their toy money isn't silly /
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KevinMarks Ah, capital S. Thanks android
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aaronpk Ha
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pfenwick I'm fond of the idea of Mintcoin, which aims to reduce the environmental impact of cryptocurrencies by switching from a proof-of-work to proof-of-stake model. (The currency is verified not by aggregate CPU, but by the aggregate holders of the currency itself.)
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KevinMarks I like Ben's idea of mintettes
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KevinMarks https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=8lsRU73IAvOr0gWtmIHgBQ&url=http://www.links.org/files/distributed-currency.pdf&cd=1&ved=0CCcQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNFGn6IBb4ouJcUZLjkOBngiAck5Vw&sig2=EhZ13SRO_1DSPlo6bbaHHQ
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KevinMarks Grrr
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KevinMarks the link is in there somewhere
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aaronpk will have to read that later
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@AndySylvester99 HOWTO - Setting up the Selfoss feed reader with microformats support #indieweb http://andysylvester.com/2014/03/01/howto-setting-up-the-selfoss-feed-reader-with-microformats-support/ (twitter.com/_/status/439631984914989057)
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KartikPrabhu dammit! hard to get rid of writing != habit from c in python
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snarfed KartikPrabhu, you're trying to use 'is not' instead?
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KartikPrabhu yeah!
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snarfed ah
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KartikPrabhu bad c habits is all
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snarfed beware, they do have subtly different semantics in python, they're not identical
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KartikPrabhu interesting!
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snarfed you can keep using !=, it's not bad
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KartikPrabhu will look that up before I get into bad python habits :)
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snarfed hey, btw, i've been trying to pass string data or file object to Parser() directly, instead of a url that it fetches, but i haven't managed to get either working yet
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snarfed any tips?
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KartikPrabhu really passing file handler does not work!?
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KartikPrabhu i.e. if you pass open("filename","r") ?
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snarfed well, i've passed a StringIO
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snarfed i'm fetching the url myself, with something like urllib2.urlopen or requests.get
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KartikPrabhu and passing data.text from the requests reply?
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snarfed (that would usually be the common case
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snarfed i was surprised that Parser() expected a file object instead of a string)
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snarfed yeah
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KartikPrabhu ok will look into it next!
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snarfed np!
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KartikPrabhu also feel free to add that to https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py/issues/9 that I just made!
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snarfed aha, thans
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KartikPrabhu working on you rsvp issue now
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KartikPrabhu really hopes you are not using this mf2py on important things! too many issues. my apologies
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snarfed1 oh man, no worries! none of this is "important
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snarfed1 and all software has bugs
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snarfed1 totally ok. i really appreciate all the work you've done on it!
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snarfed1 just so you know, i'm using it to build https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/10 . i'll have a working demo within a week or so. looking forward to showing you!
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KartikPrabhu i don't want you using this on bridgy and then cascading the bugs to everyone who uses brudy :P
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KartikPrabhu bridgy
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snarfed1 eh i put plenty of my own bugs in it
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snarfed1 and bugs from other libraries i use
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snarfed1 nothing's perfect
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KartikPrabhu sweet! webmentioning silos would be awesome!
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snarfed1 totally!
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snarfed1 it's very alpha quality, but the code in head actually works
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snarfed1 if you sign up on https://www.brid.gy/publish , and then send a webmention with target http://brid.gy/publish/facebook (or twitter), it will posse a post, or comment, or like, or rsvp
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KartikPrabhu neat
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snarfed1 (the webmention endpoint is https://www.brid.gy/publish/webmention)
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snarfed1 but i'd wait for it to actually launch in a week or so, it'll be more stable and usable
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snarfed1 anyway. done for tonight. thanks again!
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KartikPrabhu yeah! will keep on this for a bit... great work on bridgy too!
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snarfed1 thanks!
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tantek !tell aaronpk, it could act as a router for paying people at a particular domain
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@kevinmarks “ We've centralized the bejesus out of the Internet now, … one social network (plus the one no one uses),” https://static.pinboard.in/webstock_2014.htm #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/439790496810942465)
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tommorris tantek: just restored the NaCl article. adding a few sources.
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tantek tommorris - appreciated!
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tantek KevinMarks: "What made the instrument so durable was its beautiful simplicity."
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tantek s/instrument/technology
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Loqi tantek meant to say: KevinMarks: "What made the technology so durable was its beautiful simplicity."
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tantek :)
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KevinMarks Inviting Maciej to speak is a way to get him to write epic essays. More conferences should do it.
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tantek yeah that was an impressive amount of research
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tantek KevinMarks: "So it was always a mainstay of home electronics projects, and a great starting point for experiments. It was hackable in the best sense of the word."
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tantek *THIS* is the indieweb we are designing and building.
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tommorris speaking of theremin, I always liked this theremin cover of Daft Punk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvLWMqcICcM
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KevinMarks_ that is rather impressive, tom
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tantek tommorris++
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Loqi tommorris has 17 karma
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barnabywalters obligatory hurry gurdy + theremin video: http://youtu.be/G4BUkOjxuZo?t=2m59s
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barnabywalters s/hurry/hurdy
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: obligatory hurdy gurdy + theremin video: http://youtu.be/G4BUkOjxuZo?t=2m59s
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barnabywalters still haven’t sufficiently trained autocorrect on this machine
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barnabywalters indie search experimentation screenshots: http://waterpigs.co.uk/img/2014-03-01-indie-search-halsway.png http://waterpigs.co.uk/img/2014-03-01-indie-search-indieweb.png http://waterpigs.co.uk/img/2014-03-01-indie-search-sesame-ice-cream.png
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /search (+142) "/* Barnaby Walters */ added 2014-03-01 demo search screenshot" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: fixed rsvp issue!
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KartikPrabhu tommorris: mf2py with BS now looks a lot different than the original! Added and moved around a whole bunch of code. Be careful while merging the pull request
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tommorris KartikPrabhu: will have a look later
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KartikPrabhu sure. just a fair warning :)
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KevinMarks_ hm, thinking about the payment discussion
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KevinMarks_ we should create a litecoin fork called IndieCred
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Loqi yea
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barnabywalters KevinMarks_: does making more forks solve the large-blockchain-prevents-decentralisation problem?
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KevinMarks_ I think being less popular helps, going by http://bitinfocharts.com/
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snarfed has anyone here ever applied for the Instagram API's commenting access?
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snarfed i'd like to, but i'm afraid of them actually looking at my app and deciding it's against TOS or something similar
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