2014-03-10 UTC
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# 00:14 scottjenson BTW, how do I @reply you? so your name shows up in my reply text?
# 00:17 scottjenson no, IRC, you called out my name, and it showed up in a different color
# 00:18 pauloppenheim if you start a line with / and then some text, IRC will interpret it as a command
# 00:19 scottjenson I just want to have TANTEK appear in the next (like he did just above when he said welcome)
# 00:19 tantek on my display, lines that mention my name are highlighted
# 00:20 pauloppenheim scottjenson: right, there's essentially no magic to a string that matches a user's nick inherent in IRC, all of the magic is in the client, so it depends on what you are using
# 00:20 tantek in Colloquy it growls at me and puts a silver background on the line
# 00:21 tantek hahaha - sorry - laughing at the thanks stupid (which was clearly unintentional)
# 00:22 tantek scottjenson, Loqi is the friendly channelbot that aaronpk wrote and a bunch of us have taught it things.
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# 03:30 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 03:30 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 03:33 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 04:00 KartikPrabhu Autolinking question: Do people who use autolinking in notes, 1. save the linked version as copy 2. save only linked version or 3. autolink on the fly ?
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# 04:21 aaronpk KartikPrabhu: i think we're all watching Cosmos :)
# 04:27 aaronpk fwiw I auto-link on the fly. I think I cache the resulting HTML of articles and notes in memcache.
# 04:32 KartikPrabhu thanks aaronpk. I was saving the autolinked version but that might interfere with POSSE later on
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# 05:23 Loqi scottjenson: snarfed left you a message 1 hour, 53 minutes ago: new front page looks great!
# 05:23 Loqi scottjenson: snarfed left you a message 1 hour, 53 minutes ago: i'll try to hide the TOC
# 05:30 scottjenson snarfed: oh what the hell, this'll go into the archives... Thanks!
# 05:31 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 05:31 Loqi scottjenson: KartikPrabhu left you a message 12 seconds ago: like this
# 05:32 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 05:32 Loqi KartikPrabhu: scottjenson left you a message 15 seconds ago: got it!
# 05:34 scottjenson !tell snarfed: Thanks tracking that down, it looks MUCH better w/o the TOC...
# 05:34 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 05:36 Loqi snarfed: scottjenson left you a message 2 minutes ago: Thanks tracking that down, it looks MUCH better w/o the TOC...
# 05:42 KartikPrabhu snarfed: iirc you were attempting a POSSE service to go with bridgy. Would love to take it for a test-drive instead of rolling out my own code
# 05:43 snarfed as well as posts/tweets, it can posse twitter favs, RTs, replies, and FB likes, comments, and even RSVPs, using standard mf2 and in-reply-to links that point to twitter/FB URLs
# 05:43 snarfed i still need to write docs, but here are some examples
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# 05:45 snarfed KartikPrabhu: actually, just click on my "Recently published…" links on https://www.brid.gy/publish and look at the links. check out the mf2 in my posts on snarfed.org and the results on the FB/twitter links
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# 05:47 KartikPrabhu snarfed: does this work independently of the backfeed? i.e. if I signup then will the backfeed start coming. I still haven't fixed my webmention receiving ...
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# 05:49 snarfed yes, they're independent. signing up for publish won't also start backfeed
# 05:49 snarfed willnorris: hell yes i saw it! totally excited. i (think i) replied via direct webmention, not sure if you got it
# 05:50 snarfed nice comment rendering btw, glad to see that works
# 05:51 willnorris thanks. still some work to do, for example it doesn't distinguish between likes and reposts, but this was solid enough that I was happy sharing it
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# 05:54 strand Hello, I was trying to set up Indie Auth and got a "There was an error verifying this provider. Confirm you have a rel="me" link on this site pointing to your website." with both Twitter and Google.
# 05:55 strand I was hoping someone could help me troubleshoot it… I've set both sites to link to strabd.com (my site) and have links with rel="me" on my site.
# 05:57 KartikPrabhu strand: Twitter has been having issues with IndieAuth. But your Google+ page does not seem to have your ebsite
# 05:57 snarfed KartikPrabhu: i see the errors you're seeing on bridgy publish. i may have over-optimized it for replies etc instead of original posts. i'll take a look.
# 05:58 KartikPrabhu snarfed: I was about to ask! I still don't have full notes/replies on my website yet. POSSEing original articles would be sweet thouh
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# 05:59 snarfed definitely! fair warning though, i don't yet truncate nicely for twitter :/
# 06:00 KartikPrabhu np! I am just playing around for now. no need for anythign to be polished :P
# 06:03 snarfed KartikPrabhu: aha. bridgy publish thinks if a post is a reply, it should be a reply to a silo post, since you're posseing. it's wrong, of course. filing an issue now.
# 06:04 strand Fixed the Google issue, I've linked to twitter using https… So it must be their damn fault.
# 06:05 strand Yeh, I'd forgotten to hit save when I updated it to point to my site… I find their interface a little confusing tbh.
# 06:06 strand Thanks, now alls I have to do is figure out how to push to at least one of the silos. :p
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# 06:07 KartikPrabhu snarfed: as an aside,how do you do diff. post types on your site? Diff. UI for each or same UI with some way to select what a post is?
# 06:10 snarfed KartikPrabhu: it's all based on the mf2 of the post
# 06:10 snarfed ah. eh, honestly, i don't actually really do post types
# 06:11 snarfed the last two don't have titles, but they're the same otherwise
# 06:11 acegiak goddamnit google plus, cant I just have acegiak as my url?
# 06:11 acegiak snarfed: pretty much everything on mine is an aside
# 06:12 snarfed KartikPrabhu: the basic mf2 (h-entry etc) is generated automatically
# 06:13 snarfed when i post a reply or like on snarfed, i use a bookmarklet that generates that mf2 for the page i'm currently looking at
# 06:14 snarfed btw KartikPrabhu, if you try previewing one of your posts that doesn't have a u-in-reply-to, it should work
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# 06:17 KartikPrabhu snarfed: yeah no content trimming yet :P bridgy told me to tweet a probably 1000 word essay :P
# 06:18 snarfed definitely! i'll probably still need trimming logic as a fallback though, or if p-summary itself is too long
# 06:22 KartikPrabhu alright, indiewebcampers! I'm out... much science to be done tomorrow...
# 06:31 Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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# 16:50 Loqi tantek: snarfed left you a message 10 hours, 19 minutes ago: entertaining: now that i have that personal comms userstyle, i'm seeing it pop up on all sorts of unexpected web sites! e.g. https://snarfed.org/github_hcard.png
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# 16:52 tantek snarfed, neat! It's a great quick visualization of hCard/h-card presence.
# 16:52 tantek !tell snarfed neat! It's a great quick visualization of hCard/h-card presence.
# 16:52 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 16:56 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 16:56 Loqi snarfed: tantek left you a message 4 minutes ago: neat! It's a great quick visualization of hCard/h-card presence.
# 16:59 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 17:02 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 17:04 sparverius so how was iwc. i am basically really pissed and sad that i missed it
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# 17:06 sparverius i was looking at something else. i was just skmming the site on my phone
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# 17:19 snarfed tantek: hell yes! my stretch goal is to have bridgy publish fully documented by then so i can pitch it with a clean conscience
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# 17:20 tantek my goal is to have at least URLs & Markup (for mobile comms) fully documented/posted by then
# 17:20 tantek stretch goal is to have first pass at decent CSS, super stretch is to have it demo ready.
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# 17:21 iboxifoo tantek: not sure yet if i can make it
# 17:22 iboxifoo but i'd like to... :-)
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# 17:40 iboxifoo well, i just switched my jabber network from gtalk to my own jabber server (prosody)
# 17:40 iboxifoo looks like it works good too
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# 17:44 iboxifoo i'm now extricated from pretty much all 3rd party services
# 17:44 iboxifoo (which i can't run alternatively on my own server)
# 17:47 tantek really pushing the edges of federation / ownership - very cool
# 17:49 iboxifoo tantek: i'm using sovereign which uses ansible as its playbook
# 17:49 iboxifoo going by the syntax, ansible does look pretty straightforward though
# 17:49 iboxifoo soveregin: github.com/al3x/sovereign
# 17:50 tantek and add yourself/yoursite in a "IndieWeb Examples" section :)
# 17:50 iboxifoo yea, i will do. thx!
# 17:55 KevinMarks Snarfed does it behave on a page with multiple hCard? Like the guest list for indieWebcamp?
# 17:56 snarfed on the plus side, i'm about to post about it, and it's on GH and i happily accept pull requests
# 17:56 snarfed there's an IWC page or two with a "page author" algorithm too. might be the same thing, or overlap
# 17:57 tantek snarfed awesome! what you want is simpler than authorship (I think)
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# 17:59 sparverius the only annoying thing about running your own cloud is when something breaks
# 18:01 iboxifoo sparverius: true. webmail broke the other day
# 18:01 iboxifoo but i don't use it so no biggie
# 18:01 snarfed sparverius: that's the main reason indieweb is an itch for me personally, but personal cloud isn't so much
# 18:01 iboxifoo otherwise, things run real smooth. i'll tak the risk
# 18:02 sparverius i dont mind handing all of my stuff over to google but i have an escape pod if they ever announce dropping imap (for example)
# 18:03 tantek caseorganic - not AFAIK - where did you hear Amsterdam rumor?
# 18:04 snarfed sparverius: exactly. google takeout, and cron jobs for daily backups for a few other things, help
# 18:04 caseorganic tantek: strangely i have indiewebcamp amsterdam on my calendar for wed, may 28, 2014.
# 18:04 iboxifoo sovereign does daily backups via tarsnap
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# 18:06 caseorganic tantek: technically it could be done. davy and i will be heading back from scotland at that time and we could extend a layover in amsterdam, but i wondered if anyone else knew where it came from. looks like nothing official so i'll ignore.
# 18:06 tantek or at least a London HWC - perhaps some evening during UXLondon
# 18:07 caseorganic tantek: that sounds good. hmm, wondering how i can get to london. if i were speaking at uxlondon it would be a cinch
# 18:08 tantek we'll if you're already heading back from scotland...
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# 18:13 caseorganic tantek: true! wow. that actually might work out well. wonder if i can get the flight changed. i'll talk with davy because i want to get her into indieweb too
# 18:14 tantek we should ask adactio - as he's involved with organizing UX London
# 18:14 tantek and he'd be best for suggesting what night to do a HWC meetup or if there's a chance of doing a one day IWC London adjacent to UX London
# 18:17 caseorganic tantek: i'd love to be able to do the designing for privacy talk there, too. logging off to dive back into the esri conf i'm at.
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# 18:24 aaronpk oh I think I made that account to do a hangout for the portland indiewebcamp
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# 18:28 tantek snarfed++ for shipping Let's Talk and blogging about it!
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# 18:33 aaronpk snarfed: getting a lot of jquery js errors on your home page
# 18:33 aaronpk and getting "microformats is not defined" from the userscript
# 18:34 snarfed re the jquery errors on my home page, true! looks like those have been there for a while. i wrote approximately zero of my site's JS, so fixing those will kinda end up at the bottom of my todo list :/
# 18:35 snarfed re the microformats error, do you not use greasemonkey?
# 18:35 snarfed i think it requires a GM-compatible container, since it pulls in a library with a tag in the metadata block
# 18:36 aaronpk downloaded the JS and dragged it to the extensions tab
# 18:36 snarfed oh interesting, so i guess chrome has a userscript mgr built in
# 18:39 aaronpk hm i'll wait... i don't wanna screw with too much browser extension stuff
# 18:40 kylewm snarfed: thank you for the comment! my first one not from a silo :)
# 18:41 snarfed btw you may want to de-dupe on source url, but i know that can take a bit of work
# 18:43 snarfed KevinMarks: heh, that's on my to-read list, but the pun totally escaped me
# 18:44 tantek KevinMarks - that sounds like a good screen to add to IndieWebify.me!
# 18:45 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 18:47 aaronpk tantek: jf is here at the esri devsummit! twilio is one of the sponsors of the hackathon!
# 18:48 tantek give him (a little bit of) a hard time for signing up for IndieWebCampSF and not showing up :P
# 18:53 snarfed tantek: is there a semantic difference btw :P and ;) ? (only half joking, actually curious)
# 18:54 iboxifoo snarfed: would like to know this too ... :-p
# 18:57 tantek snarfed, I think the difference is subtle, but ;) indicates more humor, and :P indicates more "giving a hard time"
# 18:57 aaronpk i would have thought it was the other way around, since the :P seems more "silly"
# 18:57 snarfed i'm emoticon ignorant, so i've used exclusively :P pretty much forever. might have to switch now.
# 19:01 tantek snarfed, it may also depend on the renderings in particular clients
# 19:02 tantek would be interesting if you could setup a series of mini-icons *of yourself* which clients would render when you uttered emoticons
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# 19:03 tantek speaking of which, does anyone add/show visible "mood" metadata to their posts?
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# 19:04 dariusdunlap I'm a little behind on the conversation, but thought I would mention that I find the workflow in http://indiewebify.me/ to be confusing. Too much back-and-forth. Some kind of "% complete, here's what to do next" would be a big improvement.
# 19:06 iboxifoo tantek: you could build that into your contact mocks
# 19:06 tantek iboxifoo - going to try to ship something simpler first :)
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# 19:16 kylewm microformats question: if an h-entry has >1 u-url (i'm looking for the permalink URL), is there some way to mark which is the permalink? rel="bookmark"?
# 19:18 kylewm it looks like the body has h-entry, and his Home link is marked u-url
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# 19:20 kylewm looking like BeautifulSoup is not cutting it as a microformats parser
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# 19:24 KevinMarks_ kylewm: I think KartikPrabhu was integrating BeautifulSoup with tommorris's mf2 parser
# 19:25 KevinMarks_ kylewm: you can tell beautifulsoup to use html5lib, which may be safer as it pre-conforms the HTML
# 19:26 tantek we should add a Sessions section to that page and link to KevinMarks' notes
# 19:27 richardlitt ... Is there a way to make an account on IndieAuth without the rel="me" thing?
# 19:27 richardlitt because it is totally stalling for me. :/
# 19:28 KartikPrabhu richardlitt: what are you use to authenticate? Twitter has been having issues, github or Google+ work correctly
# 19:29 richardlitt Was using a few things
# 19:29 richardlitt just cut it down to Github and Twitter
# 19:29 richardlitt it's not giving me an option, I'm guessing I just need to remove rel="me" from links that won't authenticate
# 19:30 richardlitt I got it now.
# 19:31 richardlitt Never ran across this system before.
# 19:31 richardlitt Thanks. :)
# 19:32 snarfed kylewm: agreed, KartikPrabhu++ for mf2. i use it in bridgy publish, it's great
# 19:32 KartikPrabhu kylewm: tommorris moved the code to github for collaboration purposes, not sure if he considers them canonical
# 19:32 snarfed (particularly KartikPrabhu's fork. i think tommorris's repos lag behind.)
# 19:33 richardlitt No idea. :P
# 19:33 richardlitt I tried to connect with Github.
# 19:34 snarfed tommorris: not at all, you wrote mf2! that's the important part. repo cleanup is easy compared to that
# 19:34 tommorris I’ll tidy it all up soon. I’m just getting ready to go to the gym.
# 19:35 tommorris I was sort of under the illusion that the python community was still all-mercurial-all-the-time
# 19:35 richardlitt Tried it to or three times
# 19:35 richardlitt seems to be working now.
# 19:35 richardlitt ...buggy. :\
# 19:36 richardlitt In other news, though
# 19:36 richardlitt I can now add my name to the Volunteer section for NY 2014
# 19:36 richardlitt tantek, looks like you need some people
# 19:39 tommorris well, there’s a variety of open source github clones you can self-host
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# 19:48 richardlitt That would be me, I guess.
# 19:49 snarfed yeah, gotta love the lightning fast wiki edit messages here
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# 20:35 hadleybeeman Tantek & KevinMarks : An event in London? What about MozLDN? Send an email to UK Reception, @t, and they'll tell you if/when the space is free.
# 20:35 tantek hadleybeeman - better if someone on the ground there steps up to organize venue
# 20:37 hadleybeeman I'm afraid I can't help right now… tommorris, if you want to give it a go, I can give you the email address
# 20:40 tantek commented on that post asking for more context
# 20:40 tantek and of course comment held in moderation because … WordPress :(
# 20:41 tommorris you can’t “like” people. but you can like pages. and you can create a page for yourself, if you want to keep your public persona and your private life separate
# 20:42 tommorris speaking of ‘likes’, there actually seems to be a silo’d use case for sharing those likes - Tinder and Dandy both use Facebook likes to show you shared interests with potential dating matches
# 20:46 tommorris if Tinder ever shows me a guy that has “Microformats” as a shared interest… :)
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# 20:51 barnabywalters I need an endpoint so new posts can be made, and a client so I can make new posts ;)
# 20:52 tantek finds it hilarious when the Wikipedia admin doesn't check the wiki first ;)
# 20:55 barnabywalters tommorris: indeed, designed by aaronpk from the best parts of indieauth, oauth, microformats and HTML forms
# 20:56 KevinMarks I'm going to try to get it working from noterlive.com for Wednesday
# 20:56 barnabywalters it’s quite tricky thinking from the point of view of the client app, destination app, auth server and user all at the same time
# 20:57 KevinMarks Yes, that's why I'm starting with a client to talk to aaronpk's server
# 20:58 KevinMarks The trouble with writing both sides at once is you can have shared bugs
# 20:58 aaronpk Luckily indieauth.com takes care of being the auth server for you so you can skip that step
# 21:00 aaronpk Yeah building both a client and server at the same time is a challenge. I don't recommend it.
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# 21:07 barnabywalters KevinMarks: maybe, I don't use google docs. does it do version control? perceptual diffs?
# 21:08 tommorris barnabywalters: Wikimedia Commons hosts a lot of SVGs. and renders them up for people unable to see them.
# 21:11 tantek is really tempted to start a parody: asciinounproject (dot com)
# 21:12 barnabywalters uh oh — after three years, has #indiewebcamp hit that stage where we just start making parodies of things
# 21:12 tommorris we need indieparody, a hastily constructed parody protocol to share parodies of things.
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# 21:17 tommorris I need a visual language for “this post is deliberately frozen as is for a reason and may not reflect my views today”. ;)
# 21:18 barnabywalters tommorris: I used to add a spiders’s web to the corner of any articles more than a year old
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# 21:40 barnabywalters twitter feed UI observation: clicking a “reply” tweet action then defocusing it will collapse the reply UI only if no text has been entered
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# 21:45 scottjenson !tell snarfed I got my server to upgrade my PHP. I'm fully WebMentioned. It's pretty amazing....
# 21:45 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 21:46 snarfed scottjenson: awesome! looking now. i'm impressed they upgraded their php so quickly, too
# 21:46 Loqi snarfed: scottjenson left you a message 1 minute ago: I got my server to upgrade my PHP. I'm fully WebMentioned. It's pretty amazing....
# 21:47 scottjenson Next step: Notes (i've got a plug in to keep them separate) to I can experiment a bit on the side and not confuse things too much
# 21:56 snarfed i need to encourage people here to indie-like more, on top of indie-replying
# 21:56 scottjenson Yeah, Will's like/retweet collapsing code will go a long way to make this awesome
# 21:56 snarfed i think the code is pretty specific to his theme right now. we should lean on him to fix that
# 21:56 scottjenson snarfed: To follow up on your last comment. I assume I need to post a note in order to like it on my site?
# 21:57 snarfed well, note vs article vs whatever doesn't matter, but the markup inside does
# 21:57 snarfed i comment and like a lot on my site, but hide them from the front page
# 21:58 snarfed if you click on my archive button (upper right) and check out a few of the recent posts, then search for e-content and look at the markup inside, that's what does the liking, etc.
# 21:58 snarfed e.g. my like of your post was just this: <a class="u-like u-like-of" href="http://jenson.org/easyhard/"></a>
# 21:58 barnabywalters snarfed: agreed on the indie liking — being able to like inline from a feedreader is likely to push me over the edge to actually implement that
# 21:59 snarfed totally! even with bookmarklets, going through wp's admin interface every time kills it :/
# 21:59 snarfed happily barnabywalters is working on inline replies (likes etc) from feed readers right now
# 21:59 tantek snarfed - do you and others consume "like-of" consistently enough that we can drop the use of "u-like" in that context?
# 22:00 snarfed tantek: good question! wordpress plugins and bridgy support both
# 22:00 tantek barnabywalters - perhaps note in your subsection on IndieWeb Examples on /like ?
# 22:00 tantek there was a reason why we wanted to switch from u-like to u-like-of on the hyperlink to the thing being liked
# 22:01 barnabywalters it reads better, more consistently with in-reply-to, e.g. “this post is in-reply-to that post”, “this post is a like-of that post”
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# 22:17 tantek.com edited /like (+446) "update to u-like-of given consensus in IRC, note previously, switch from experimental to "How" since it seems pretty settled. a few more indieweb examples per claims in IRC" (
view diff )
# 22:19 aaronpk stupidly just realized he should be using the term "posts" as a catch-all instead of agonizing over what to call things
# 22:24 barnabywalters aaronpk: it would seem that Indieauth\getAccessToken returns a string if there’s a 404 fetching the token endpoint?
# 22:29 barnabywalters aaronpk: that appears to not be the case, unless I’m doing something very wrong
# 22:32 kylewm aaronpk: indieauth login to my site was waaaaay too easy to set up. incredibly cool & nice work on the documentation :)
# 22:39 barnabywalters aaronpk: yep there’s certainly something wrong with Indieauth\getAccessToken. it seems to be trying to parse a HTML response as form-urlencoded
# 22:40 barnabywalters so there’s probably something wrong on my end, but that function needs to return a more useful value when errors occur. investigating further now
# 22:46 aaronpk barnabywalters: the response it gets should be form encoded, but yeah it should proabbly do something more useful on an error
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# 22:58 tantek oh sorry if I jumped the gun! I thought you got likes working from what you were saying.
# 22:58 KartikPrabhu my opinion on u-like vs u-like-of was from reading the wiki as a newcommer
# 22:59 tantek snarfed - no that (YYYY-DDD) is me being lazy
# 22:59 tantek sometimes I forget to translate back to Gregorian
# 22:59 tantek in the future, Gregorian dates have been abandoned for ordinal dates because it makes day math easier across the year.
# 23:00 tantek also ends US vs EU arguments about MM/DD vs DD/MM
# 23:00 snarfed why stop there?! dates should be day-only ordinals (e.g. 437432789) for easy math across years! :P
# 23:00 tantek snarfed, current unenhanced human cognitive limitations
# 23:01 tantek snarfed, augmentations will solve that in the farther off future
# 23:02 tantek KartikPrabhu, altering the Earth's orbit to even number of days per year is even further off into the future
# 23:03 tantek for those of you wishing to switch to or use ordinal ISO dates, there is full support for conversion between Gregorian ISO in #cassis.js
# 23:03 barnabywalters tantek: alter the earth’s orbit? that’s terrifying. #firstworldproblems on steroids
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# 23:05 tantek with any luck we'll make the future *less* eveil
# 23:06 Loqi tantek meant to say: with any luck we'll make the future *less* evil
# 23:06 KartikPrabhu sure! eviltantek might make a year have irrational number of days, then we'll all be doomed!
# 23:07 tantek KartikPrabhu - a 100-day year would be too close to the sun for current weather modification tech
# 23:10 KartikPrabhu tantek, barnabywalters: on diff. note. Do you people have diff. UIs for posting diff. post-types or same UI with some option to select?
# 23:11 snarfed oh man, nice. once our kid arrives, maybe i can start him/her on ordinal dates first
# 23:12 tantek I thought I remember seeing screenshots or video of p3k as well somewhere
# 23:12 KartikPrabhu basically I hacked notes on saturday completely independently, but notes and articles have common things so have to clean that up
lukebrooker, heraclitus__ and heraclitus___ joined the channel
# 23:40 tantek realizes he really should ship the person focused contact UX stuff on his site before tomorrow.
# 23:41 tantek snarfed, well, tomorrow has particular significance to me in that friends may be reaching to contact me more than other days.