#indiewebcamp 2014-03-18

2014-03-18 UTC
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tantek.com
edited /photos (+1769) "brainstorm subsections, add POSSE thoughts, add Why POSSE rather than TwitterCard here for now"
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tantek
aaronpk, kylewm -- ok added based on above IRC discussions -- feel free to add to or edit
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tantek
continues to pop the stack
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tantek
ok didn't see/hear any objection to "feed file" so I'm going for it
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bear
KartikPrabhu ++
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bear
KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 10 karma
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bear
^^ for teaching me something about a Python module I didn't know about
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bear
I *love* learning new things and that was a fun one to learn
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bear
urljoin - I didn't know it existed
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snarfed
whoa me neither!
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snarfed
looking now
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snarfed
oh man, nice
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bear
yea - it solves in a single call the relative webmention issue
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kylewm
snarfed: is "Bridgy Publish" common knowledge (i.e., ok to reference on the wiki)?
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tantek
I believe it was openly demonstrated at IndieWebCampSF
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snarfed
kylewm: sure, feel free to mention on the wiki
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tantek
and summarized in KevinMarks' tweets
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snarfed
i still need to add some ui and write docs before i announce it more loudly, but i'm not hiding it
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tantek.com
created /feed_file (+880) "stub to start distinguishing separate feed files from the broader notion of "feeds""
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kylewm
great, I just wanted to say "Bridgy Publish may help with POSSEing pictures to twitter and facebook", just so there's no confusion about the direction
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kylewm.com
edited /photos (+44) "/* POSSE */ tiny clarifications of notes on POSSE vs. TwitterCards"
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kylewm
and thank you for writing up those notes, tantek
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tantek
kylewm - no problem, and thanks for the edits! :)
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tantek.com
edited /feed_file (+7) "because yes, XML is legacy so we should be explicit about that"
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tantek.com
edited /webmention (+216) "/* Why webmention instead of pingback */ Why webmention instead of Trackback so hopefully those tweeting about it have a chance of finding this by websearching for it"
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nslater
why use web mentions over http referers?
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nslater
i asked that here:
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nslater
but i'm not sure my question was answered
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tantek.com
edited /feed (+139) "note historically feed files"
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pauloppenheim
nslater: i have been wondering that as well, but i suppose a simple answer is "intention"
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tantek
I thought so too, but the SO answer is decent too
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nslater
i wonder why that matters and why it's worth the complexity tradeoff
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tantek
which is that HTTP referrers will happen A LOT
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tantek
and cause extra processing
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tantek
if used for this
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tantek
whereas a webmention has more specific semantics
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tantek
first time you get one it's like a "Create"
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tantek
and second/further times it's an Update (or possibly Delete)
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aaronpk
you could always make an http referer -> webmention bridge and see what happens :)
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aaronpk
or just start parsing your referers and displaying them as comments if you find a post
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aaronpk
like you said, the burden is on the linked-to site to parse the headers, so you can do it if you want without asking permission from anyone
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tantek.com
edited /CRUD (+154) "more linky/phrasey for discovery"
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pauloppenheim
i hacked a test system for that a while ago, my issue was coming up with a way to handle and make sense of everything
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kylewm
If someone posted a link to your site and no one ever clicked on it, would you ever get an HTTP Referer? asking out of ignorance
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pauloppenheim
kinda becomes a crawler
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aaronpk
kylewm: no
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pauloppenheim
kylewm: no
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aaronpk
it's sent by the browser
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aaronpk
of course the linking site could make an HTTP request with the referer when the reply is created (which would be very similar to webmention then)
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tantek.com
edited /CRUD (+60) "dfn abbr"
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pauloppenheim
ahh, right
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tantek
kylewm - does this help? http://indiewebcamp.com/CRUD
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pauloppenheim
nslater: privacy-minded individuals may disable sending referrers
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nslater
pauloppenheim: all you need is a single referer
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nslater
google bot is likely to provide that
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nslater
number of referers could even be used as a metric to gauge importance
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nslater
(number of occurrences of each url, i mean)
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pauloppenheim
I'm unsure if bots send referrer
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nslater
wrt spammers, trackbacks get spam. sure other protocols do too
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tantek
nslater, relative amounts matter
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tantek
not just if or not
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pauloppenheim
but yeah, the referrer spam problem means that if you use it, you need to tool it
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nslater
nods
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nslater
though this seems like a game of cat and mouse
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nslater
if you choose one protocol over another based on that, and then it gets popular, ... uh oh :)
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nslater
would make even less sense to advocate based on that justification
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pauloppenheim
nslater: one other nice thing about webmentions is that your webmention processor can be any URL
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pauloppenheim
it would be easy enough to pack up and ship out logs too I suppose, but this is built in for the case of static sites
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tantek
nslater - that's not the conclusion I come to, but rather that we have a window of opportunity to strengthen webmebmetion before it gets hit badly.
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KartikPrabhu
bear: sorry I missed your question, but you seemed to have found that it works! :D
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tantek
nslater - ok catching up to NewBase60 :)
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bear
KartikPrabhu - yes :)
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tantek
re: Flickr, yes, saw that, and cited it in my work on Whistle in particular: http://tantek.com/w/Whistle
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tantek
so, problem, Flickr does not follow ASCII ordering
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nslater
well my point is: spam is a common denominator. it makes no sense to sell a less popular system for its low level of spam, unless those low levels are attributable to the system, and not the lack of popularity. and if there were a way of protecting webmention against spam, presumably the same system could be tooled for other systems also
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tantek
or rather base58
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tantek
does not follow ASCII ordering
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nslater
tantek: ah, yep. i saw you cited them, but was wondering what the deficiencies were
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tantek
nslater, the reasons to use webmention are well documented: http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#Why
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tantek
note that spam is not mentioned
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tantek
"makes no sense to sell a less popular system for its low level of spam" is a strawman argument - no one is doing htat
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tantek
s/htat/that
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: "makes no sense to sell a less popular system for its low level of spam" is a strawman argument - no one is doing that
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tantek
nslater - re: deficiencies - short version, base58 etc. do not follow the methodologies given here: tantek.com/w/NewBase60#Methodology
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nslater
the doc cited says its simpler than pingback. but as i say in my SO question, it still seems more complex than http referer. so interested to learn what is gained by adding that complexity
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tantek
so you can figure that out by searching for why pingback instead of HTTP referers
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tantek
a > b > c. transitive. QED.
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nslater
assuming i agree with whatever i find :)
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pauloppenheim
tantek: assuming all sets of arguments adhere to logic
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tantek
both are reasonable bayesian assumptions :D
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nslater
i didnt understand why pingbacks were used either
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bear.im
edited /feed_file (+751) "a question about how mf2 feed will handle a more real-life feed file entry"
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pauloppenheim
nslater: i am with you on this one
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pauloppenheim
nslater: but for right now the tool i was making to deal with referrer chomping is way more daunting already
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pauloppenheim
nslater: to the point where i open that codebase and just close it again
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nslater
i'm less interested in "are webmentions better than trackback/pingback/etc" and more "why does anybody use these things in the first place?"
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nslater
pauloppenheim: hmm
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tantek
nslater, pauloppenheim, yes, and your approach is the right now, question something by implementing the alternative that makes (more) sense to you. and document what you discover!
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tantek
s/now/one
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: nslater, pauloppenheim, yes, and your approach is the right one, question something by implementing the alternative that makes (more) sense to you. and document what you discover!
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pauloppenheim
nslater: least of which because it assumes my webserver is logging referrer already
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nslater
agreed
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tantek
(with?)
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nslater
your previous statement
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tantek
there's nothing saying that webmention (or use thereof) can't be simplified further. someone just hasn't done it yet. ;)
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tantek
bear, your questions aren't really about feed files
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bear
yes, I'm realizing that as I go back and re-read
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bear
I was just in the process of removing it
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nslater
what's funny tantek is that i look at your NewBase60 method, and i think "damn, that's not quite right" and i want to make my own
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bear.im
edited /feed_file () "(-751) removed question because it really isn't about feed files"
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nslater
specifically, i don't like capital letters
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tantek
nslater - google for "slice a url" :)
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bear
I've just realized that I need to implement feed in order to grok why I am uncomfortable with it
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nslater
does so
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tantek
nslater, I like ASCII ordering ;)
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tantek
bear, feel free to add questions about "how to" to http://indiewebcamp.com/h-entry
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tantek
with specific examples of posts (permalinks) you want to markup with such special features
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bear
nods
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nslater
was just reading http://www.nngroup.com/articles/url-as-ui/ linked to from timbl's cooluris page, wheren neilsen argues that mixed capitalisation is bad for useability. he might be right. i just think they look ugly in urls. heh
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tantek
which lends more credibility to your questions (beyond being theoretical or possibly based on dated assumptions / use-cases)
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bear
I am going to gather some real world examples of past feeds that i've had to implement using atom and rss
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tantek
nslater - yes, I tend to agree with that - for long URLs
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nslater
right
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tantek
hopes he doesn't depress nslater too much. ;)
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tantek.com
created /Keynote (+644) "stub with the obsolescence problem"
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nslater
hehe this is funny
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nslater
though i feel like you're missing a line
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nslater
the amount of times i've heard from the semweb folks that uris are *completely opaque* ;)
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tantek
nslater - oh I have a different post for that ;)
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tantek
then just keep clicking the right arrow :)
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nslater
i read the URI spec one day, and was surprised to learn that everything after the third "/" is just binary data
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nslater
i.e there's no default character encoding for urls!
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nslater
could be anything you like. completely not specified. could be the binary for a png for all the spec cares
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nslater
(there are a few reserved octet sequences, so you might have difficulty with that, but who knows)
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@t
Yesterday I tried again to find a good use for "URI" (vs "URL") and found a new reason for just "URL". #nerdproblems (ttk.me t4V12)
(twitter.com/_/status/443890173047484416)
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nslater
i think i was looking into this because a url i was trying to use was being turned into mojibake by something
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pauloppenheim
tantek: that thread is both lulzy and depressing, as is the article
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nslater
read that thread
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nslater
uses URLs on purpose most of the time
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pauloppenheim
tantek: i actually know a scheme that is not a protocol
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tantek
pauloppenheim - so do I. Hence "Launchers" :)
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nslater
mailto:
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tantek
there's lots of them
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tantek
as Rainman would say
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nslater
data:
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@GeekGawk
#geek #nerd #gamer: Indieweb and Feeds - Dave Winer: If this article about feeds on the IndieWeb... http://www.geekgawk.com/2014/03/15/indieweb-and-feeds/ #GoogleReader
(twitter.com/_/status/445728422820462592)
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tantek
#GoogleReader?!? What does that even mean/do?
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KartikPrabhu
I don't understand why people are so nostalgic/sentimental about GoogleReader
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tantek
indeed
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KartikPrabhu
remembers posts about death of syndication because of Reader shutdown!
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tantek
has been swapping those memories out to http://indiewebcamp.com/feed#Shutdowns
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KartikPrabhu
what is a good way to reply to a note that also has a syndication version? For a use case, I have a reply http://kartikprabhu.com/notes/nice-indieweb-reader to barnabywalters post which I can webmention to him, but if I also add a link to his twitter synicated version i can use bridgy to POSSE as reply to his tweet. But then I'll have replied to 2 versions of the same thing...
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KartikPrabhu
is confused how to handle this
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tantek
KartikPrabhu - oh there's an answer, and a few of us are doing it
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tantek
it involves two in-reply-tos
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KartikPrabhu
yes but does that not indicate that both the in-reply-to are actually copies
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tantek
it doesn't need to
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tantek
finds a recent example
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KartikPrabhu
cool! I'll manually add both urls for now. will implement syndication discovery later. thanks
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brennannovak.com
created /Store (+2943) "Created page with "As the number of IndieWeb related apps grow, so will the job of choosing which apps you want to install and what is compatible with your server. The goal is to create an easy to ...""
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brennannovak.com
edited /Store (+3) "/* Examples */"
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tantek
those would be *Silo* examples :P
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tantek
great to see this page started! thanks bnvk
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bnvk
tantek: i'm super excited about exploring this aspect of IndieWeb, and making it easy to install different apps on different platforms :)
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tantek
also the question of install *where*
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tantek
app stores are typically for the *client*
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tantek
whereas it looks like you're thinking installing on the *server* (e.g. prismbreak etc.)
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bnvk
right, I need to write more, but its getting late here and wanted to push up something
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tantek
so you might want to distinguish those
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kylewm
tantek, so is the burden on the receiver to de-duplicate those replies? (remove comments where comment->permalink == comment->source->rel-syndication)
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tantek
because otherwise it's apples and oranges
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tantek
VERY different install / setup requirements
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bnvk
definitely
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tantek
kylewm - yes - see /webmention page for de-duplicating advice
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tantek
bnvk - the FirefoxOS app store uses open formats & protocols for this already too
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tantek
so there's already open prior art to "just use"
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bnvk
the first case of this "app store" is create something that can used in ArkOS as well as IndieBox, that then hands off the machine instructions to their middleware
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tantek
rather than documenting needs for a new format etc.
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tantek
bnvk - so you're talking *server* app store
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tantek
so that's very different
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tantek
but you're using "examples" of *client* app stores to try to inform your design
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tantek
you may have an impedance mismatch there
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bnvk
well, server, is a lose term, a raspberry pi at home or a laptop... not much difference
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tantek
might be more confusing than helpful
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tantek
it's not a "loose term"
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tantek
because it's in terms of user functionality
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bnvk
mac desktops also have an app store
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tantek
doing something for the user (client), vs. serving stuff across the internet to others (including the user) (server)
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tantek
bnvk - yes, that's also client
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bnvk
it's almost identical to the mobile one
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tantek
so you need to split this into client vs. server sections on Store
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bnvk
what do you mean by client then?
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tantek
otherwise it's going to be VERY confusing
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tantek
bnvk - all the existing stores you mentioned are ALL client
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tantek
iOS, android, macos
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tantek
whereas your brainstorming for Arkos indiebox etc. are all *server*
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bnvk
by client do you mean "computer where software is installed" ?
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tantek
where comparable examples would be things like Cpanel
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tantek
bnvk see above about function focus
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tantek
doing something for the user (client), vs. serving stuff across the internet (or an intranet) to others (server)
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bnvk
so, are you saying navigating this interface I am talking about on a Raspberry Pi and using it to install software (on the Pi) would be server
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tantek
bingo
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bnvk
but then using this on your laptop would be called "client" ?
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tantek
right, you *use* your laptop as a client
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tantek
and you *use* the pi as a server
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bnvk
mmm, I could also use my laptop as a server ;)
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tantek
"could also use" is theoretical line of thinking - not useful sorry
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tantek
or rather, adds noise to the discussion,
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bnvk
I like thinking all of my devices as equal citizens on the net
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tantek
that's a mistake
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tantek
from a user-centric perspective, it's also a false perspective
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tantek
from a security perspective, it's a false perspective
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tantek
from a "how reliably are they connected to the net" perspective, it's also false
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bnvk
I don't quite follow what "false perspective" means, unless it's just a nice way of saying "you're wrong"
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tantek
provably wrong ;)
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bnvk
my thinking is, most user's don't understand client and server
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tantek
bnvk - no they understand client
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tantek
they don't understand server
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bnvk
really?
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tantek
users don't typically manage servers
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tantek
nor install software on them etc.
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bnvk
a lot of users don't understand "web browser"
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bnvk
they understand this device, that device, or "somewhere on the intenet"
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tantek
not compared to server
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tantek
bnvk - I reject "a lot of users don't understand "web browser" "
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tantek
users install web browsers all the time
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tantek
and you're falling into the "everyone" trap by saying "a lot of users"
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bnvk
so because they install software, they understand what "type" of software it is?
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bnvk
and how that functions in a greater eco system?
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tantek
and security assumptions etc.
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tantek
they understand what type of device it is
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bnvk
tantek: what security assumptions are issues when considering a Pi or a laptop equal citizens?
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tantek
again usage
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tantek
leaving something on the network accessible from the internet
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tantek
client vs. server security scenarios / attack vectors are different
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tantek
overlapping, but different
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bnvk
ok, sure
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tantek
anyway have to run
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tantek
but you need to split the page and make the client / server distinctions - or else it's going to be confusing / misleading
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pauloppenheim
if we lived in Vint Cerf's store-and-forward post-IP-protocol future, laptops can be servers. Until then it's probably a bad idea.
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bnvk
cheers, I'll be refining it more tomorrow and this week
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bnvk
pauloppenheim: what do you see the main obstruction to laptops being servers? The IP4 issue?
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pauloppenheim
they are regularly disconnected from the internet
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bnvk
ok, what about home PCs?
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pauloppenheim
bnvk: i do not know your technical background, so i do not know how seriously to take your inquiry
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bnvk
i'm a software engineer and designer, I run a couple linode boxes, I used to run HTTP, FTP "servers" from my home windows PC in the 90s... I'm building Mailpile right now
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nslater
of course, home laptops could be servers in the federate web
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nslater
but we'd need some clever arch to make that happen
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pauloppenheim
bnvk: what happened when you ran servers from your home PCs?
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nslater
data would need to be redundant. lots of ways to approach that. you could bi-directionally replicate between peers, so that everybody has a lot of the data, and then you just end up requesting from whoever is nearest (and online)
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nslater
one of the things im interested in adding to couchdb is bittorrent sync protocol
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pauloppenheim
nslater: but that does not exist today for the media currently under discussion
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bnvk
pauloppenheim: what do you mean what happened?
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pauloppenheim
you can easily transmit immutable media that way today using bittorrent, yes.
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nslater
pauloppenheim: it does actually. you can do it with couchdb. though you'll hit a snag with addressing
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pauloppenheim
bnvk: can I access an URL that you were hosting on that machine in the time period you speak of?
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bnvk
no, that was a 133 MHz pentium 1 that sadly has gone to the great silicon pile in the sky
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pauloppenheim
nslater: i think that addressing snag is more than a snag
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bnvk
but you can access this on my Air pauloppenheim: right now http://django.bnvk.me
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nslater
pauloppenheim: oh?
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nslater
pauloppenheim: bittorrent uses trackers for this, of course. why not trackers for the web
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pauloppenheim
bnvk: ping: unknown host http://django.bnvk.me
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nslater
magnet links instead of URLs for your website :)
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pauloppenheim
nslater: i would love to see trackers for the web
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bnvk
pauloppenheim: rly?
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pauloppenheim
bnvk: i think you are proving my point
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bnvk
whre are you ?
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nslater
i see "Yo Dawg, I am a webserver coming from a Macbook Air using Pagekite"
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bnvk
that's what you should be seeing
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pauloppenheim
now it's working
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bnvk
yah, I just turned on the daemon
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bnvk
this is coming from Pi next to me http://moondog.bnvk.me
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bret
works
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bret
neat!
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nslater
bnvk: so pauloppenheim's point is that a typical characteristic of a website is that it is always available. which is why websites are typically hosted on dedicated hardware, in dedicated buildings
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bnvk
once IP6 rolls out more stuff like this will be much easier to do
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KevinMarks
but still intermittent
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bret
i have ipv6 at my house... sadly not a router that can support it
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bnvk
right, that is "typical" assumed characteristic of a website
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KevinMarks
this is where the "static with enhancements" idea works, IMO
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nslater
one way of getting past that problem is to distribute your site across lots of machines. but the current web isn't set up to handle the addressing issues that come with that right now
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bnvk
I don't want to assume that I always want all of my personal indie data always on, some data yes, some data, I'm fine with it being not accessible when I'm not online
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pauloppenheim
nslater: round-robin dns and load balancing work fine today
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nslater
pauloppenheim: not so well for an indie federated web where your data is on your friends laptops, though
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pauloppenheim
bnvk: i would not assume that opinion generalizes, especially to laptops
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nslater
yes, if you're balancing across a known pool of servers
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bnvk
pauloppenheim: yes, that's why a lot of people like the raspberry pi idea
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pauloppenheim
don't get me wrong guys, i agree this would be nice
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pauloppenheim
but it does not work today
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bnvk
would be nice, let's friggin build towards it
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bnvk
if we say, the way the internet has gone the last 15 years is how it has always been and always will be, then that's how it will stay
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nslater
one thing i like about couchapps is that they like the git of websites. i publish a couchapp, and you can clone it like you can clone a git repo. and someone can clone it from you. and we can merge in any direction we want
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bnvk
personally, I'd like to not have to pay hosting companies when I can leave a small machine on at home
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pauloppenheim
i'm not a spokesperson for this community, but it feels like that is another project, not the indieweb
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nslater
in the same way it doesn't make sense to talk about a git repo being "online" it doesn't make sense to talk about a couchapp website being "online". it's a different way about thinking about the locality of a site
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pauloppenheim
bnvk: you can leave a machine on at home if you want to, that does work today
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bnvk
nslater: of our early IndieWeb friends Max Ogden made a couchapp clone of diaspora alpha like that
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pauloppenheim
well, as much as your ISP works
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nslater
oh max is an indie webber is he? cool
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nslater
<3 max
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bnvk
well, sorta, yes, was, maybe still?
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nslater
nice
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nslater
have you read about unhosted before?
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bnvk
yah, I'm friends with some of those dudes
#
nslater
unhosted is like your idea but even more extreme
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bnvk
pauloppenheim: using pagekite if my ISP switches my IP or anything it adjusts to that as it pokes a hole through the LAN via reverse proxying
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bnvk
nslater: right, I like that unhosted stuff, it's far out, but neat
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pauloppenheim
bnvk: right, but your ISP connection might go down or otherwise be flaky
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bnvk
nslater: if you like that checkout http://maidsafe.net
#
pauloppenheim
bnvk: but that might be acceptable to your purposes
#
bnvk
pauloppenheim: right, of course, my home connection is usually good enough- my personal site is not mission critical data that lives depend on, it's blog posts, notes, and my portfolio ;)
#
nslater
nice!
#
pauloppenheim
well, portfolio
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bnvk
hehe
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pauloppenheim
i've literally had my site go down during a job interview, and one of my interviewers said something snide about "well, good thing we're not interviewing you for operations"
#
nslater
i quite like the idea of only having your website available when your computer is running
#
nslater
it's counter-culture in a pleasing way
#
bnvk
lol, friggin interviewers
#
nslater
probably wouldn't do it myself though. perhaps better left as an idea ;)
#
pauloppenheim
nslater: go for it
#
bnvk
nslater: yes, it's kinda punk
#
nslater
having a website that only works when a raspi is on makes total sense though
#
nslater
assuming the website is related to the functioning of the raspi
#
bnvk
and in an indieweb "having conversations with my friends via our personal sites" I think it fits decently
#
nslater
will have to look at http://maidsafe.net/ later
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bnvk
yah, they've put a lot of work into it
#
bnvk
anywho, good night gentle dudes, it's 2 AM here in Iceland, góða nótt ;)
#
Loqi
sleep tight!
#
bnvk
takk, Loqi
#
pauloppenheim
goodnight!
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@jciarletto
Starting down the path of marking a small corner of the internet as “mine”. Indie web content here I come. #ownyourdata
(twitter.com/_/status/445744429987414016)
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KartikPrabhu
some feedback for reply-context url display http://kartikprabhu.com/notes/nice-indieweb-reader :)
KevinMarks2, JasonO_ and kylewm joined the channel
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: looks like a good first pass!
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snarfed
next step might be to use twitter's embedding for tweets, or summary or title (forgot the mf2 properties) for normal posts when available
#
KartikPrabhu
yes! also auto-tagging tags :)
ricmac, basal, ricmac_, ricmac__ and caseorganic joined the channel
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Loqi
caseorganic: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 22 minutes ago: - need to post a screenshot of that "This presentation cannot be opened b/c it is too old." !
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KartikPrabhu
!tell barnabywalters: sorry for the double webmention to http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4V6Fna/ I thought it might update the mention not repeat it. Also, I was wondering why my photo didn't show up?
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
KartikPrabhu
bear: the new relative url thingy works great!
#
bear
excellent!
#
bear
I love simple solutions like that
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KevinMarks
KartikPrabhu: what would the auto-tagged tags link to?
#
snarfed
KevinMarks: maybe lists of his own tagged posts on his site
kylewm, kylewm_ and ricmac joined the channel
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KevinMarks
hm, interesting
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KevinMarks
!tell tantek have you thought of autolinking #tags in cassis too?
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
michielbdejong and addal joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu
KevinMarks: yes link to related notes through tags :)
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KartikPrabhu
but first I must tag notes
ricmac joined the channel
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wagle
what do you guys use to send outgoing email from your own domains? (ie from home?)
#
wagle
(my port 25 is blocked by my ISP)
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kylewm_
wagle, even if it weren't blocked, I believe a lot of times mail that comes from residential IPs gets marked as spam ...
#
kylewm_
I have a digital ocean VPS that is configured as a mail server... but it was a royal pain to set up
#
kylewm_
and still not sure I did it right
#
wagle
i'm trying to run a bugzilla, need to send email to people with status updates, etc
#
wagle
yeah, was thinking that DO might be a way to go
#
wagle
still checking that a FTP server really costs $5 / month to run
#
kylewm
ohh, can you use one of the services with a free tier? just a sec looking up the one I have used
#
kylewm
Postmark, but I've only used it on heroku :/
#
kylewm.com
edited /email (-1) "it's -> its"
(view diff)
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wagle
day 17, and only $2.53
#
wagle
looks up postmark
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Loqi
tantek: KevinMarks left you a message 24 minutes ago: have you thought of autolinking #tags in cassis too?
#
wagle
hmm.. heroku has a est cost field to display to you
#
wagle
but they wanna invent all new flashy terms for everythng
#
wagle
begins to wrap brain
#
wagle
i'm only expecting a few emails per month
#
tantek
good evening #indiewebcamp!
#
tantek
checks logs
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wagle
no, i take that back, maybe a few a day to my regular email
#
tantek
Loqi, why are the logs empty?
#
tantek
nevermind Loqi
#
Loqi
yeah!
#
wagle
i have full logs for a month or two
#
wagle
in quassel
#
kylewm
tantek, am i right in thinking the "today" links are still on UTC time?
#
tantek
notes that the /topic redirects to logs for tomorrow ;)
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tantek
kylewm - that appears to be what is happening yes
#
tantek
aaronpk ^^^
#
wagle
useful
#
wagle
logs for tomorrow
#
wagle
sorry
#
tantek
imagines a markoff chain that generates tomorrow's logs, today.
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kylewm
wagle, I have a heroku app that sends me like 3 emails a month and it's definitely free... but I have no idea if you could wire up bugzilla to talk to an external service for mail. might be easier to just configure it to send through an outside smtp
#
kylewm
sorry to not be more helpful
#
wagle
the bugzilla test case sent one email to a home mail sever, but the latter doesnt know how to email to the world
#
wagle
no, heroku looks interesting, it might do it
#
wagle
can i borrow your markov chain to project what I will know by tomorrow about email and heroku?
#
wagle
would ave a alot of time and effort
#
kylewm
we need a psychic robot!
#
wagle
Loqi: are you psychic?
#
wagle
awww.. dont have a full loqi instance here?
michielbdejong and pfenwick joined the channel
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tantek
KevinMarks, indeed thought about #-autolinking but to what destination?
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: could you not #-autolink to a feed of notes with that tag?
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu - nearly no one implements that
#
tantek
"feed of notes with that tag"
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KartikPrabhu
i see. is that for some specific reason? people do link tags on articles to a list of articles with the same tag
#
tantek
just one example so far: http://indiewebcamp.com/tags
#
KartikPrabhu
is the idea that such autolinking is useful only in a silo like twitter?
#
KartikPrabhu
where notes from many authors can be listed?
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: no, i don't think so
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snarfed
it's a common feature in many blogs and cmses
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snarfed
"nearly no one" isn't accurate, regardless of that wiki page :P
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kylewm1
\quit
michielbdejong and ricmac joined the channel
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KevinMarks2
I suppose you'd have to give it a tagspace to use
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KevinMarks2
WordPress generates one per blog, and a global one
ricmac joined the channel
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KevinMarks2
As does blogger
Jihaisse, LauraJ, jcbsnd, yaf, ricmac_, eschnou, KevinMarks3, dvirsky, glennjones, carlo_au, pfenwick, pfefferle, Sebastien-L and KevinMarks2 joined the channel
#
acegiak
pfefferle: hallo! did you see what I pushed for sempress?
scor, ricmac, jancborchardt, adactio, bnvk, eschnou, jcbsnd, ricmac_, Sebastien-L and dns53 joined the channel
addal, basal, scor, LauraJ, ryana, Phae, JonathanNeal, ricmac, glennjones, tantek and onewheelskyward joined the channel
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pfefferle
acegiak oh no... seems that i missed that... will have a look
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tantek
!tell KartikPrabhu,snarfed,Kevinmarks I mean, yes, linking # hashtags to *something* makes sense, it's just there's no one consistent UI/UX for this (that I know of). Add proposals to: http://indiewebcamp.com/hashtag
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
pfefferle
thanks for the tipp
ricmac and melvster joined the channel
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tantek
!tell aaronpk I noticed some of your posts here show your name (alt text?) instead of icon/avatar: http://aaronparecki.com/tag/indieweb
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
bnvk, yaf, fungoat, chloeweil, ricmac_ and glennjones joined the channel
#
@brennannovak
Scheming with @barnabywalters @cznweb #IndieWeb about how to bring a graphical App Store like experience... https://brennannovak.com/notes/404
(twitter.com/_/status/445912516208521216)
bnvk, CheckDavid, Sebastien-L, chrisroos, ttepasse, michel_v, _6a68, dvirsky and ricmac joined the channel
#
@cznweb
RT @brennannovak: Scheming with @barnabywalters @cznweb #IndieWeb about how to bring a graphical App Store like experience... https://t.co/…
(twitter.com/_/status/445925102849654784)
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#
Loqi
snarfed: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 57 minutes ago: I mean, yes, linking # hashtags to *something* makes sense, it's just there's no one consistent UI/UX for this (that I know of). Add proposals to: http://indiewebcamp.com/hashtag
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bnvk
!tell barnabywalters what do you think about these domains http://www.godaddy.com/domains/searchresults-new3.aspx?ci=54814&isc=GPPT03C700 ?
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
tommorris
Rails upgrades are so much fun.
ricmac, caseorganic, chrisroo_, kylewm and barnabywalters joined the channel
#
Loqi
barnabywalters: KartikPrabhu left you a message 11 hours, 51 minutes ago: sorry for the double webmention to http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4V6Fna/ I thought it might update the mention not repeat it. Also, I was wondering why my photo didn't show up?
#
Loqi
barnabywalters: bnvk left you a message 31 minutes ago: what do you think about these domains http://www.godaddy.com/domains/searchresults-new3.aspx?ci=54814&isc=GPPT03C700 ?
#
barnabywalters
bnvk: I think that link is broken (typical go daddy)
#
barnabywalters
it’s just showing me a spinny thing
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cweiske
barnabywalters, http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/tiny-tiny-rss-feed-detection.htm#enhancements for a screenshot how tt-rss allows you to select the feed
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barnabywalters
cweiske: nice! that sounds like a sane algorithm
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barnabywalters
all implemented client side?
#
cweiske
no, via ajax
#
cweiske
server-side
#
cweiske
in php
#
aaronpk
good morning indiewebcamp!
#
Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 33 minutes ago: I noticed some of your posts here show your name (alt text?) instead of icon/avatar: http://aaronparecki.com/tag/indieweb
#
barnabywalters
morning aaronpk
#
aaronpk
!tell tantek that is a side effect of when my site archives its own content using indiearchive. not sure why the photo is missing there. either way this is getting fixed in my next push.
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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bnvk
barnabywalters: friggin GoDaddy
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tommorris
rails app deployment needs to be much, much easier.
#
bnvk
looks like indieappstore.com is taken, but .net, .org, .info, .us are all available, or another URL could be figured out
#
barnabywalters
tommorris: s/rails app/
#
tommorris
might look into something like Docker soon to see if that might make things suck less.
#
bnvk
or I could try emailing the owner of the .com
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barnabywalters
bnvk: might be worth a try — if not I’d say .org is most suitable
#
bnvk
feel free to weigh in aaronpk :)
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bnvk
barnabywalters: yah the .org is nice, something .us feels decent as well, considering we have indiewebify.me
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barnabywalters
install.us/please would be the British English version
#
bnvk
hehe
#
barnabywalters
!tell KartikPrabhu pretty sure both are my fault as your markup looks fine — double mention might even be an index locking problem on my side. Not sure what’s going on with author markup but yours looks good — could be improved with url property though :)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
glennjones and dangillmor joined the channel
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tommorris
waves a warm welcome to dangillmor
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 24 minutes ago: I mean, yes, linking # hashtags to *something* makes sense, it's just there's no one consistent UI/UX for this (that I know of). Add proposals to: http://indiewebcamp.com/hashtag
#
Loqi
KartikPrabhu: barnabywalters left you a message 16 minutes ago: pretty sure both are my fault as your markup looks fine — double mention might even be an index locking problem on my side. Not sure what’s going on with author markup but yours looks good — could be improved with url property though :)
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dangillmor
Good to be here...
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barnabywalters
welcome dangillmor!
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KartikPrabhu
barnabywalters: yes url prop is something to add for sure
#
@GeekGawk
#geek #nerd #gamer: Indieweb and Feeds - Dave Winer: If this article about feeds on the IndieWeb... http://www.geekgawk.com/2014/03/15/indieweb-and-feeds/ #GoogleReader
(twitter.com/_/status/445951283426373632)
#
kylewm
morning KartikPrabhu, fyi I'm working on value-class-pattern parsing for datetimes
#
kylewm
my first pass at just naively joining them together was not great :)
#
KartikPrabhu
kylewm: morning! sounds great. I made some changes in the past week to mf2py just so you know
#
KartikPrabhu
always better to have something and then iterate
#
kylewm
oh great, thank you, I will pull from upstream
#
tommorris
just started publishing a new type of content - a place.
#
aaronpk
sequential numbers?
#
tommorris
Only one post so far.
#
KevinMarks2
In the hallowed instagram tradition
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aaronpk
there's a review there too?
#
tommorris
Yep, will be marking up geo and h-review
#
tommorris
Wanted to get it up on the web first.
#
tommorris
The difficult bit was building some geo-hierarchy
#
barnabywalters
tommorris: nice work!
#
tommorris
Basically I wanted a place to put all the stuff I’d chucked into Foursquare.
#
kylewm
KartikPrabhu, do you know if your changes (from the last week or so) will pull out the u-url from http://tantek.com/2014/030/t1/handmade-art-indieweb-reply-webmention-want ?
#
aaronpk
oboy hierarchy stuff gets complicated fast
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aaronpk
I was thinking about doing places entirely with tags, so there's no hierarchy just a bunch of tags
#
tommorris
aaronpk: yeah. I ended up deciding to build my own. countries (which use domain name suffixes), then ‘areas’ which are nested. it’s done solely on the basis of my own need.
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aaronpk
like your place "1" would be tagged "uk" and "london"
#
tommorris
so, I may rearrange the hierarchy whenever I feel like it. ;)
#
tommorris
but equivalences will be declared with Wikipedia, Wikidata and OSM.
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: you can test mf2py live from http://kartikprabhu.com/connection/mfparser except of course absolute normalization of urls
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KartikPrabhu
which I have tested independently
#
KartikPrabhu
tommorris: places! good stuff
#
kylewm
KartikPrabhu, oh right! so that's interesting, u-url and u-uid for the h-entry are empty
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: yeah that is weird
#
KartikPrabhu
kylewm: aah those should come from a value of an input element
#
KartikPrabhu
which isn't in the spec!
#
KartikPrabhu
!tell tantek: u-url and u-uid in http://tantek.com/2014/030/t1/handmade-art-indieweb-reply-webmention-want are as value attribute of input element but mf2 spec does not have rules to parse those.
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
KartikPrabhu
!tell tantek: scratch that my bad. there is a rule
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
KartikPrabhu
kylewm: seems the url parsing rules are incorrect. I'll fix those
#
KartikPrabhu
it is basically missing exactly that use case :|
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: pushed fix
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: also live on the site :)
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu, lol, that was quick
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Loqi
tantek: bnvk left you a message 1 hour, 44 minutes ago: what do you think about these domains http://www.godaddy.com/domains/searchresults-new3.aspx?ci=54814&isc=GPPT03C700 ?
#
Loqi
tantek: aaronpk left you a message 1 hour, 3 minutes ago: that is a side effect of when my site archives its own content using indiearchive. not sure why the photo is missing there. either way this is getting fixed in my next push.
#
Loqi
tantek: KartikPrabhu left you a message 14 minutes ago: u-url and u-uid in http://tantek.com/2014/030/t1/handmade-art-indieweb-reply-webmention-want are as value attribute of input element but mf2 spec does not have rules to parse those.
#
Loqi
tantek: KartikPrabhu left you a message 14 minutes ago: scratch that my bad. there is a rule
#
KartikPrabhu
eh! ignore those tantek :)
#
aaronpk
lol wow
#
tantek
bnvk I'm not seeing anything at that godaddy URL sorry
#
KartikPrabhu
there should be a way to scratch your last tell message
#
aaronpk
!untell?
#
tantek
just an empty form with a spinner
#
KartikPrabhu
or !scratchthat :)
#
tantek
usually JS crap app
#
tantek
!tell bnvk godaddy JS crap app fail. no results.
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
@kevinmarks
"@firefox: "Keep the Web in people's hands." -@MitchellBaker https://www.youtube.com/ #TheOpenAgenda" #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/445960132770279425)
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tantek
aaronpk, looks like Loqi is pruning youtube URLs from tweets ^^^ (original tweet has completely link)
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bnvk
tantek: yep, sorry, GD so hatable! Was saying indieappstore.com is taken, but .net, .org, .info, .us are available- thoughts? :)
#
Loqi
bnvk: tantek left you a message 6 minutes ago: godaddy JS crap app fail. no results.
#
tantek
not sure what it would be for?
#
tantek
I'd say better to spend time clarifying thoughts first (e.g. on the wiki) - there will be plenty of domains to choose from once you have a solid idea what you would use it for.
#
aaronpk
tantek: it's a problem with following the redirect. i think youtube is sending a different URL back for the loqi user agent
#
tantek
which redirect? t.co?
#
bnvk
tantek: I have what I think is a solid idea (baring explaining client / server qualm you have) as outlined in the wiki, I guess you disagree
#
tantek
if you can't explain the UX simply, then I don't think you have a solid idea. just my opinion.
#
tantek
takes another look at the wiki
#
bnvk
explain the UX?
#
waterpigs.co.uk
moved /Store to /store "store is not a proper noun"
#
tantek
haha just went there barnabywalters right before you did that move :)
#
bnvk
tantek: see"Store Development Stages"
#
bnvk
me too
#
waterpigs.co.uk
edited /store (+5) "/* App Information */ copy edit, this ‘aint github edit"
(view diff)
#
bnvk
my thinking is cloning the Prism Break repo, styling it up a lil bit differently then adding it to whatever domain is chosen which will make the http://indiewebcamp.com/Projects type thing a bit more user friendly for the IW curious user
#
bnvk
of course, a lot of the projects are not super easy to install yet, but it will lay a foundation for that sort of experience people are used to
#
tantek
bnvk - none of the projects are super easy to install yet
#
tantek
so I'm not sure there's anything to lay a foundation for
#
tantek
nor any experience to draw from about what such an experience should be like
#
bnvk
the foundation of the user flow of getting involved with indie web and installing an IW app- so in 3, 6, 9 months when one or more projects are easy to get working, the UX of choosing and quickly browsing will be handled to some degree
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bnvk
of course, this will be iterated on along the way
#
tantek
To be clear, if you think that's the next highest priority for you personally, e.g. for making it easier to (un)install on your own personal site, then go for it.
#
tantek
you might want to first look at who's actually making progress on this front, e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com/sovereign
#
tantek
and it's really at just the "installation" phase of figuring stuff out now
#
barnabywalters
actually out of all of us bnvk has more projects ready (ish) for widespread use, in Mailpile and SocialIgniter
#
tantek
store = installation + payment
#
Loqi
woot
#
bnvk
yayay, way to go IDNO
#
tantek
go Idno go!
#
barnabywalters
everyone go “applaud” that submission
#
tantek
barnabywalters - I'd challenge that assertion. I don't believe any project is "ready(ish)" for widespread use until you've got at least a few alpha/beta users that can confirm as much.
#
tantek
bnvk - is anyone else using Social Igniter on their own domain? add them! http://indiewebcamp.com/projects#Social_Igniter
#
barnabywalters
tantek: AFAIK Mailpile has a number of alpha users
#
bnvk
tantek: cool, my thinking is there are also other projects like OwnCloud that can be added as well
#
bnvk
Many of these not technically IW in that they don't have micro formats as part of their structure, but this move could be an olive branch to those communities / projects
#
tantek
bnvk - it's not about microformats - it's about whether or not the project creators / developers actually selfdogfood their own projects on their own domains
#
tantek
without that - I hate to say it - but the projects are *ignorable* - because they will eventually die
#
tantek
very poor investment of time
#
tantek
and if the project creators / developers actually selfdogfood, then document them in the wiki: http://indiewebcamp.com/projects
#
bnvk
tantek: hangin with the ownCloud devs in Berlin, close to 100% of them self dog food
#
bnvk
I use it daily
#
tantek
then add them and their personal domains which are running it to this: http://indiewebcamp.com/projects#ownCloud
#
tantek
so far there are zero devs on it there
#
tantek
(devs on the project itself)
#
tantek
basically I'm saying that unless you can take the few minutes to document with specific names and URLs, I'm not going to believe you
#
bnvk
uh... just because they haven't seen the value in adding themselves to our wiki != your assumptions are correct
#
tantek
*you* can add them to the wiki
#
bnvk
that feels like a waste of time to me
#
tantek
but if *no one* wants to bother to add them, then yes, why bother
#
tantek
bnvk - it's a good way to filter out projects that won't last
#
tantek
if no one involved with them, or who has heard of them, can't be bothered to add a few lines of text
#
tantek
it's a "proof of work" protocol :P
#
bnvk
attending their hackathon and seeing 60+self dog fooding devs, as well as the 98 daily who are in #owncloud-dev, as well large German universities using it for their students was enough verification for me
#
tantek
flash in the pan
#
bnvk
meh, whatever
#
tantek
numerous projects over the years have held big hackathons, and then died
#
tantek
or worse, they turn into monocultures
#
bnvk
sure
npdoty joined the channel
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tantek
anyway - feel free to add citations for this stuff here: http://indiewebcamp.com/ownCloud
#
bnvk
that still doesn't make them any less relevant
#
tantek
that's the whole point of "proof of work" style challenges
#
tantek
if something/someone isn't able to step up to the challenge, then yes, it DOES make them less relevant / worth spending time on
#
tantek
especially when the challenge is so small like add a few lines of text
skinny joined the channel
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /ownCloud (+133) "added bnvk dev selfdogfood citation"
(view diff)
#
tantek
bnvk - examples: whatever happened to Locker Project? or Unhosted?
#
waterpigs.co.uk
created /OwnCloud (+21) "Redirected page to [[ownCloud]]"
(view diff)
#
barnabywalters
jeez, what is up with mediawiki redirect syntax
#
barnabywalters
such inconsistency
#
bnvk
tantek: yes, Locker was a said case of not figuring out how to sustain itself, then selling out. Jeremy used to dog food ;)
chrisroos joined the channel
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tantek
bnvk - never saw any URL evidence of selfdogfooding of Locker Project.
#
tantek
and yes, I did ask Jeremy directly for it
#
tantek
barnabywalters - lowercase works too: #redirect:[[ownCloud]] - and easier to type
#
bnvk
the evidence I saw was Jeremy had his personal social data backed up to a USB key he had stored on his bracelet
#
tantek
but his own website didn't seem to use it
#
tantek
there wasn't anything "web" about it
#
barnabywalters
another example, sadly, is OpenPhoto — it’s tricky to figure out exactly what’s happened to it since it became Trovebox
#
bnvk
I believe he didn't have a personal website with a public URL as he was envisioning as a way to backup personal data in one place
#
tantek
non-web projects are fine, they're just not "indieweb"
#
barnabywalters
and my installation is still broken :(
#
tantek
barnabywalters - yeah
#
tantek
did the openphoto pages get moved accordingly?
#
barnabywalters
on the wiki? I don’t think anyone noticed/cared enough to do that bit of maintentance
chrisroo_ joined the channel
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tantek.com
edited /photos (+30) "/* Software */ update to Trovebox"
(view diff)
#
tantek
wow there never was an "openphoto" page created!
#
tantek
guess people really didn't care much about that project
chrisroos joined the channel
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bnvk
tantek: a lot of privacy minded people might not want to list URL's publicly to sites that contain their personal data, not sure how that real world concern fits into your rubric
#
tantek
bnvk, based on experience I'm skeptical of those that don't show their work, it's that simple.
#
barnabywalters
bnvk: I made some changes to indiewebify me (reply/like/repost validation, datetime error detection, improved content display) — can you deploy? changes require a composer update
#
tantek
at the Federated Social Web Summit, some of the biggest talkers were "privacy minded people"
#
tantek
and the sessions about privacy / security
#
bnvk
barnabywalters: yah, I'll do that now
#
barnabywalters
bnvk: thanks!
#
tantek
LOTS of handwaving - very little actual work / shipping
#
tantek
bnvk - do any of those privacy minded people use Twitter to post public tweets?
#
bnvk
in some cases you're definitely right
#
bnvk
yes, some of these people absolutely do
#
tantek
let me guess - they discuss things on a mailing list too?
#
bnvk
mmm, can't confirm or deny that
KevinMarks2 joined the channel
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tantek
barnabywalters do you still "use" Trovebox? or is it just in a dead state on your server and you haven't transferred stuff out yet?
#
kylewm
!tell KartikPrabhu, I set up a mf2py endpoint for my branch here http://kylewm.com/api/mf2?url= . you can see the changes from the PR I sent here in the published properties, http://kylewm.com/api/mf2?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2F2014%2F075%2Ft1%2Factions-consequences-planning-regardless
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
barnabywalters
tantek: it’s dead, pending transfer of relevant content to Taproot
#
barnabywalters
I could probably attempt to debug the JS-related problem but would rather put that time into making getting Taproot displaying photo posts better
ricmac joined the channel
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tantek
ok - I'm deleting your testimonial about it being "a good candidate for being in the Production section. It’s reliable and fairly well polished"
#
tantek
I wonder about j12t
#
tantek
!tell j12t are you still using Open Photo / Trovebox "running a private instance for … family pictures" ?
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
michel_v joined the channel
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tantek.com
created /Trovebox (+1774) "stub at least for historical purposes"
(view diff)
chrisroos joined the channel
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tantek.com
edited /projects () "(-527) rename open photo to trovebox, link to main article, demote from production section back down to experimental due to problems, drop barnaby as user of"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
edited /Trovebox (-8) "/* Formerly */ de-dup pending"
(view diff)
#
barnabywalters
bnvk: oops, I seem to have accidentally replied to your comment on the idno KNC thing! UI weirdness
#
bnvk
hehe, yah, I saw that
#
barnabywalters
the “comment” box is completely separate to the rest
snarfed joined the channel
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barnabywalters
acegiak: looks like your likes are marked up with h-like-of! that should be a h-cite, and here’s a fancy webpage demonstrating it: http://indiewebify.waterpigs.co.uk/validate-h-entry/?url=http%3A%2F%2Facegiak.net%2F2014%2F03%2F16%2Fhttpaaronparecki-com-watching-videos-of-yesterdays-flight-set-to-music-longphoto%2F
#
tantek
yeah - like "u-like-of h-cite" right?
tilgovi joined the channel
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barnabywalters
indeed. I’ll add a code sample later. got to go now
pfefferle and michel_v joined the channel
#
dangillmor
Can anyone point to a graphic that would help a novice understand indieweb principles?
#
tantek
dangillmor - coincidence - Amber (caseorganic) just started working on exactly such a diagram yesterday
#
tantek
!tell barnabywalters heads up, appears your POSSE tweets may be truncating URLs, e.g. https://twitter.com/BarnabyWalters/status/445966450017058816 links to: https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/2014/submi (which is a 404) (/me has a feeling he's going to get a CASSIS bug report as a result)
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
curiousjohn, squeakytoy and chloeweil joined the channel
#
KevinMarks
so, are we goign to do an indiewebcamp knight submission?
#
Loqi
KevinMarks: tantek left you a message 6 hours ago: I mean, yes, linking # hashtags to *something* makes sense, it's just there's no one consistent UI/UX for this (that I know of). Add proposals to: http://indiewebcamp.com/hashtag
#
snarfed
the LinkedData reference in that first proposal is new to me. anyone familiar with it? http://linkeddata.org/
#
snarfed
looks a bit like a semantic web thing
#
tantek
snarfed, yeah, step back slowly ;)
#
snarfed
heh, yup
#
tantek
lest you get trapped in circular semantic discussions
bnvk and paulcp joined the channel
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tantek
KevinMarks - is this what DanGillmor was talking about?
#
tantek
if so, want to start drafting it on the IWC wiki?
tilgovi, skinny, ricmac and grantmacken joined the channel
#
KevinMarks
tantek: yes, it's due today
#
tantek
feel free to use wiki/etherpad for drafting it then so the rest of us can give feedback. submit it when you feel it's good enough.
kylewm joined the channel
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Loqi
http is not ok
#
bret
ok Loqi
#
bnvk
fans of my project Mailpile, feel free to express your appreciation at https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/2014/submissions/mailpile-secure-e-mail-for-the-masses :)
#
bret
is anyone else doing a challenge?
#
tantek
bnvk woohoo!
#
KevinMarks
also camlistore
#
tantek
heh just saw bnvk's comment on that :)
#
tantek
discovers that Zuck's FBID is 4
#
tantek
is hacking URLs for personal comms :D
#
KevinMarks
that's like instagram's location IDs
#
KevinMarks
1 is their office
#
KevinMarks
10 is the Bloodhound Bar
dvirsky joined the channel
#
aaronpk
bret: I was experimenting with PuSH for the IRC logs, trying to get google to index the chat logs faster
#
aaronpk
(re: the atom feed for irc logs)
dangillmor joined the channel
#
tantek
anyone know a test account for gtalk? paging XMPP peeps bear et al
#
bear
you need a testing account against gtalk?
#
aaronpk
did you just say paging?
#
aaronpk
adds "PodcastFrance" to the blacklist
#
KevinMarks
what do you mean a test account?
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bear
I thought any gmail account could be used for tests - they are easy to create
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bear
will be back in 30
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@benwerd
Loving the new, super-clear #indieweb description over at http://t.co/hQkBbdidjI. Nicely done.
(twitter.com/_/status/446005154437799937)
chloeweil joined the channel
#
tantek
!tell brianloveswords are you still available to help with co-organizing IndieWebCampNYC?
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tantek
And on that note - consider this a call for co-organizers for IndieWebCampNYC - who else is in NYC and can help organize, get local sponsors etc.?
KevinMarks2, dangillmor and caseorganic joined the channel
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caseorganic
dangillmor: tantek: yes, working on the diagram this evening, likely after our call
ricmac joined the channel
#
tantek
great!
scor joined the channel
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dangillmor
caseorganic: tantek: glad to hear. I was hoping to attach to a Knight application I'm submitting separately (to create an "Open Internet MOOC") but look forward to seeing it!
#
tantek
looks up MOOC
#
caseorganic
dangillmor: great! when do you need it by?
#
tantek
Knight apps due today right?
#
dangillmor
it closes in <70 minutes. don't worry, image is not essential.
scor joined the channel
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Jeena
Haven't have time following here due to new job and everything, but the setup I created before that works pretty neat so I am still posting everything to my own website and POSSEing.
#
snarfed
glad to hear it Jeena!
#
snarfed
how's ramp up at the new job?
#
Jeena
It works quite well, the C++ they use isn't very complicated so I haven't had problems yet. The most I have to learn is how to use cmake and emacs (I had to pic some editor for Linux and vi didn't really work for me)
#
Jeena
love the fact that there is so much talk and effort put into open source and open protocols, etc.
#
snarfed
that's great! glad to hear it's going well
CheckDavid joined the channel
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Jeena
for example for inter process communication instead of inventing something propriatary we always use dbus
#
snarfed
ah nice
#
Jeena
and it looks like I will be writing software for Tizen too
#
snarfed
interesting!
#
aaronpk
has anybody published public todo lists on their site? anything like foursquare's todo lists even?
#
tantek
aaronpk - I believe our IndieWebCamp user pages have to do lists ;)
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Jeena
they want to use Tizen in IVI (in vihicle infotainment) devices too, I always thought it was "just" a mobile phone OS.
#
aaronpk
hmm that is true!
tilgovi joined the channel
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aaronpk
I want to publish a "todo list" of places to go, then check them off when I check in to places
yaf joined the channel
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tantek
aaronpk - I'd be more interested in the query/notification half of that
#
tantek
e.g. I am here (latlong), what to-dos do I have nearby?
#
tantek
geonotes style
#
aaronpk
ah yeah. in this case I have a specific use case for the list, the goal is to go to all the places so I will likely be picking a place ahead of time.
#
tantek
then it seems like the "checking off" could be completely passive - just watch your checkins stream, query your store for to-do's, and check them off automatically.
#
tantek
no need to even publish your to-dos
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bear
tantek - the one I know of is guru@googlelabs.com
#
aaronpk
I actually only want to check it off the list if I go there with a specific person, so... :)
caseorganic joined the channel
#
tommorris
Just published another ‘palce’: http://tommorris.org/places/2
#
tommorris
‘place’ rather ;)
#
tommorris
Now making a list of all the bars and restaurants I need to review on my site.
#
aaronpk
tommorris: so are you actually publishing reviews?
#
aaronpk
or are these "place" records that you may create checkin posts that reference later?
#
snarfed
huh, right. indie reviews. i should think about adding similar markup to e.g. https://snarfed.org/movies , https://snarfed.org/beer , https://snarfed.org/restaurants , etc
#
aaronpk
whoa neat
#
kylewm
you have interesting movie taste, snarfed. what does it mean if a movie has more than 1 marker?
#
snarfed
yeah, good question. it means i both liked it and didn't like it
#
snarfed
good parts and bad parts, etc
#
snarfed
or like e.g. requiem for a dream, it was clearly a great movie, but so harsh or intense i couldn't take it
#
snarfed
other lists: https://snarfed.org/lists . gotta love data nerdery.
#
tantek
just figured out that gtalk: URLs fail in iOS7
#
kylewm
I want to watch all the movies that have all three good/bad/indifferents :)
#
tantek
or rather, the Google Hangouts app fails to register itself as handling gtalk: URLs
#
snarfed
kylewm: lol. maybe two or three total?
#
snarfed
tantek: yup, that
#
tantek
skype has no such trouble with skype: URLs
#
tantek
also FB Messenger app fails to register as handling fb: URLs
#
tantek
also on iOS
#
snarfed
tantek: clearly you have no choice but to switch to android
#
tantek
whereas even the AIM iOS app registers to handle aim: URLs
#
tantek
snarfed - hehe - these are links for OTHER PEOPLE to click on
#
tantek
so I'm just going to hide what doesn't work on iOS, when iOS users visit
#
snarfed
clearly they have no choice but to switch to android :P
#
tantek
and similar for Android users I will hide SMS / Facetime icons
#
tommorris
aaronpk: they are sort of half way between reviews and checkins. really just “these places are interesting”.
#
snarfed
well, or pop up an alert, so they at least know they *can* use those methods
#
tantek
oh, because "pop up an alert" is such a nice user experience :P
#
tantek
people are happier not knowing what options don't work for them
#
tommorris
iOS really needs to steal web intents from android. it’s one thing android has gotten right that iOS is failing at.
#
tantek
tommorris - sort of?
#
snarfed
tantek: those options work fine, they just have to open the apps manually
#
aaronpk
iOS already has some of web intents
#
tantek
tommorris - you mean just "intents"
#
tantek
or "android intents"
#
Loqi
aaronpk meant to say: iOS already has some of intents
#
snarfed
btw, sms: or smsto: don't work on android? i think they should
#
tantek
hahaha you're all calling it "web intents" when "web intents" are the thing that died
#
Loqi
hahaha
#
tommorris
heh. brainfucked.
#
hober
intents is awful api
#
tantek
that's "web intents" for you. long on evangelism. short on actual UX / just-make-it-work
#
hober
way too abstract
#
tantek
awesome, web intents are apparently a good way to wake up hober
#
tantek
maybe we should call them hober intents :D
#
hober
nooooooooooooooo
#
tantek
I suppose that should have been a >:)
#
tantek
snarfed, sms: does not work on android to txt iMessage/AppleID addresses
#
tantek
now has a test page up for various links
#
snarfed
tantek: ah, sure. so you can use a phone number, just not an imessage address
#
tantek
who wants to help test?
#
tommorris
tantek: on the “sort of” front - I’m not sure what the ‘places’ thing on my site will become. It’s reviews+foursquare tips but with some genuine tommorris™ snark added.
#
snarfed
i wonder if there's a third party imessage app on android
#
aaronpk
snarfed: there is, but that's super sketchy
#
caseorganic
dangillmor: 70 min - that's a short time period. I'm doing employee reviews today so I won't be able to finish the diagram in time. Definitely in time for the Knight Grant, though!
#
tantek
tommorris, but you repeat yourself: "on my site" and "with some genuine tommorris™ snark added"
#
snarfed
aaronpk: super sketchy or nothing, i guess
#
tantek
tommorris sounds like "venue" pages, which then have a collection of h-reviews on them
#
aaronpk
it's made by some chinese company that has to run servers to "help" with the connection, so...sure..
#
tommorris
notes that he has ‘We the Media’ on his bookshelf.
#
tantek
aaronpk LOL!
#
tantek
snarfed, you have an android right?
#
tommorris
Android iMessage implementation: sends it using iMessage via Mechanical Turk.
#
snarfed
tantek: yeah
#
snarfed
want some testing?
#
tommorris
I mean, the NSA are reading it anyway. May as well have some dude in India read it for a tenth of a cent too.
#
KevinMarks
has androids
#
KevinMarks
also firefoxOS phone
ricmac joined the channel
#
@RossGoodman
@pfefferle Just started experimenting with the webmention plugin on my wordpress blog ....
(twitter.com/_/status/446022493485428736)
#
KevinMarks
2048 starts faster on the FirefoxOS phone than Threes does on iOS
#
KevinMarks
should do a video
#
kylewm
dangillmor++ that sounds amazing
#
Loqi
dangillmor has 2 karma
#
caseorganic
dangillmor: very nice
#
caseorganic
dangillmor: there are literally 13 min before submissions end?
#
caseorganic
dangillmor: do you have a draft for the indieweb one we talked about? I had no idea submissions were ending so soon! there's no time!
#
aaronpk
oh no!
#
snarfed
QUICK EVERYONE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO SOMETHING
#
KevinMarks
wht, 13 mins?
#
KevinMarks
I was just drafting one
#
KevinMarks
but I thought it was midnight
#
caseorganic
dangillmor: i wish you had let me know yesterday! i would've moved our call to 7am.
#
caseorganic
KevinMarks: i also thought it was midnight
#
caseorganic
KevinMarks: can you share yours?
#
KevinMarks
procrastinators uniye
#
KevinMarks
of course, but it isn't written
#
KevinMarks
I literally just started it
#
caseorganic
if we had an hour -- but 10 min
#
caseorganic
KevinMarks: copy paste it here, maybe i can submit one
#
caseorganic
10 min left
#
caseorganic
and that diagram - i don't have it made yet
#
kevinmarks.com
created /KinghtChallenge2014 (+463) "Knight foundation submission"
(view diff)
#
caseorganic
KevinMarks: thanks!
#
caseorganic
KevinMarks: can you fill in more aobut salary?
#
caseorganic
3 $75k fellowships to allow work on the indieweb
#
dangillmor
KevinMarks: that sounds terrific
#
kevinmarks.com
edited /KinghtChallenge2014 (+544) "/* IndieWeb Fellowships */ add other fields"
(view diff)
#
dangillmor
caseorganic: I only found out today about the weird mid-day deadline.
#
KevinMarks
do the proposals normally have cash prices attached?
#
caseorganic
KevinMarks: i don't know.
#
dangillmor
KevinMarks: I don't see any field asking for one in this form. Do you?
#
caseorganic
aaronpk: i'm looking for the OSB proposal for indieweb - do you have a copy? can't find on my wiki
#
KevinMarks
do we put ambers indieweb explanation video?
#
aaronpk
oh let me check
#
caseorganic
KevinMarks: good idea
#
caseorganic
KevinMarks: the one from New Relic
#
caseorganic
KevinMarks: add it to the wiki page
#
aaronpk
caseorganic: it was oscon
#
aaronpk
if you sign in you can see yours
#
caseorganic
aaronpk++
#
Loqi
aaronpk has 396 karma
#
kevinmarks.com
edited /KinghtChallenge2014 (+467) "/* IndieWeb Fellowships */"
(view diff)
#
caseorganic
KevinMarks: thank you - keep going - we have 2 min left and i'm submitting whatever i have in that 2 min period
#
dangillmor
KevinMarks: even a barebones submission is better than none...
#
KevinMarks
are you submitting, amber?
#
caseorganic
KevinMarks: need bio for you kevin
#
caseorganic
KevinMarks: need dangilmor bio
#
KevinMarks
Kevin Marks is building a startup based on indieweb principles. Over the last 20 years he's moved between giant companies and founding startups - BBC, The UK MultiMedia Corporation, Apple QuickTime, Technorati, Google, BT, Salesforce. The common thread has been working out how people, computers and media can complement each other, and solving the engineering and social problems where they meet. He is one of the driving force
#
dangillmor
caseorganic: feel free to mention me but not as a co-applicant, because i'm writing about indieweb
#
KevinMarks
mention dan as an example of the stage 2
#
KevinMarks
if you link to the progress pyramid
paulcp_ joined the channel
#
kevinmarks.com
edited /KinghtChallenge2014 (+308) "/* IndieWeb Fellowships */"
(view diff)
#
@GeekGawk
#geek #nerd #gamer: Indieweb and Feeds - Dave Winer: If this article about feeds on the IndieWeb... http://www.geekgawk.com/2014/03/15/indieweb-and-feeds/ #GoogleReader
(twitter.com/_/status/446029709185269760)
#
kevinmarks.com
edited /KinghtChallenge2014 (+154) "/* IndieWeb Fellowships */"
(view diff)
#
kevinmarks.com
edited /KinghtChallenge2014 (+114) "/* IndieWeb Fellowships */"
(view diff)
#
KevinMarks
I have one saved in draft there
#
tantek
ah, nostalgic CamelCaps ;)
#
tantek
so I think @GeekGawk may be an ignorant spammer
#
KevinMarks
WikiWeirdsWords
#
tantek
investigates
#
tantek
438k tweets?!?
#
tantek
uh no thanks.
#
tantek
!spammer GeekGawk
#
Loqi
Got it! There are now 9 spammers blacklisted
#
tantek
so who has an iOS device and wants to try contacting me via a web page?
#
caseorganic
KevinMarks: if you see any edits needed let me know
#
caseorganic
KevinMarks: very strange, it allowed me to submit
#
aaronpk
caseorganic: !!! you did it!
#
tantek
nicely done!!!
#
aaronpk
"Feedback starts in 1 hour"
#
caseorganic
there are 639 submissions
#
aaronpk
that's not that many
#
tantek
kevinmarks do you have your iPod working?
#
aaronpk
tantek: i can try
#
KevinMarks
what do yo need?
#
caseorganic
KevinMarks: everyone should vote it up
#
KevinMarks
is there a special page, tantek ?
#
tantek
KevinMarks - check your PM
#
caseorganic
upvotes needed, if possible
#
caseorganic
they call them "applause"
#
aaronpk
just sent 20 "views" to the submission page from that tweet
#
aaronpk
guessing they're counting pageloads, so all the twitter bots count
ricmac joined the channel
#
KevinMarks
!tell tantek the Fb messenger link threw an exception and crashed on Android
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /KinghtChallenge2014 (+3514) "copied content from application"
(view diff)
#
KevinMarks
you naught k-nig-hts
tantek joined the channel
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Loqi
tantek: KevinMarks left you a message 8 minutes ago: the Fb messenger link threw an exception and crashed on Android
#
KevinMarks
wow, looks like it's catching
tantek joined the channel
#
@benwerd
@ricmac We think the indieweb holds promise for the future of the web.
(twitter.com/_/status/446040031317078016)
#
tantek
darn it colloquy crashe
#
tantek
losing PM logs of course
#
tantek
heh KevinMarks - crashed Android. oh well ;)
#
tantek
try updating your FB Messenger app?
#
KevinMarks
the otehr link worked I think
#
tantek
did the Skype call link work then?
#
tantek
I thought I saw a missed call
#
tantek
KevinMarks reload
#
KevinMarks
yes, it made a call
#
KevinMarks
the fb-messenger link gives an error
#
KevinMarks
the otehr one worked
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KartikPrabhu
man, that is a good write-up to come up with in 10 mins!
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu: kylewm left you a message 4 hours, 27 minutes ago: set up a mf2py endpoint for my branch here http://kylewm.com/api/mf2?url= . you can see the changes from the PR I sent here in the published properties, http://kylewm.com/api/mf2?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2F2014%2F075%2Ft1%2Factions-consequences-planning-regardless
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KartikPrabhu
i know Loqi!
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tantek
ok good to know
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KevinMarks
so the exception was probably just java being java
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tantek
KevinMarks - there should only be one fb-messenger icon now
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KevinMarks
right, but thta one doesn't work
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tantek
that seemed to work for Aaronpk on Chrome / iPhone
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KevinMarks
the other one did
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KevinMarks
(on second attempt)
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aaronpk
fb messenger worked for me, facebook app did not
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tantek
let me guess - you have the FB app installed but not the FB Messenger app
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KevinMarks
no, both
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tantek
s/you/KevinMarks
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: let me guess - KevinMarks have the FB app installed but not the FB Messenger app
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tantek
aaronpk reload
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KevinMarks
I use fb messenger to talk to my sons
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tantek
KevinMarks - interesting, then maybe that link only works in Chrome / iOS?
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tantek
and not in Safari?
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KevinMarks
wonder if there is a fb-paper: linke
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tantek
also - retry the SMS link
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tantek
I took out the "body" param
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tantek
which supposedly iOS doesn't support
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: your twitter cards seem to be not working! The "view on web" link does not show anything.
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KevinMarks
now tryign to send to //tantek@tantek,com on android
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KartikPrabhu
should implement repost on notes
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tantek
KevinMarks - no disclosing addresses in IRC - especially when logged - you know the etiquette ;)
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tantek
KevinMarks - just try iOS, n.m. android
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tantek
thanks!
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tantek
iOS Safari
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KevinMarks
works but no to:
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aaronpk
whoa weird, the "view on web" thing is totally broken
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aaronpk
i wonder what changed
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tantek
KevinMarks - did you reload?
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tantek
on iOS Safari
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KevinMarks
did you get the ones via hangouts?
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tantek
KevinMarks - what link(s) activated Hangouts? on what device/browser?
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tantek
KevinMarks do you have the AIM app installed?
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tantek
on iOS?
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KevinMarks
the txt message link did on android/chrome
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tantek
did what?
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KevinMarks
it opened hangouts (which is sms too now)
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tantek
did Skype ask you to confirm before making the call or did it just do it?
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KevinMarks
it sent an mms to your email
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KevinMarks
no, did not confirm
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tantek
whoa.
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tantek
FaceTime does prompt to confirm
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tantek
interesting
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KevinMarks
not sure tel: does either
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KevinMarks
hello richard
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bret
caseorganic: nice work on the writeup! :)
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caseorganic
bret: thanks! can you "applause" and comment on what it means to you? might help a bit
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bret
i did the applause part
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caseorganic
bret: options on the page for that at the bottom
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Loqi
bret has 7 karma
ricmac__ joined the channel
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tantek-ipod
Tantek is back via iPod
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tantek-ipod
So Hangouts app takes over SMS: but fails to support gtalk: !?!
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tantek-ipod
(On android)
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KevinMarks
looks like it
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tantek
Ok I'll pass that along to some fiends who work on it. And then I'll blog it.
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tantek
s/fiends/friends
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: Ok I'll pass that along to some friends who work on it. And then I'll blog it.
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bret
google talk is in a weird state
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bret
tantek: gtalk can message aim users though!
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tantek
Bret which gtalk app?
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tantek
Certainly not Hangouts app
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tantek
It can't handle gtalk: urls
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bret
tantek: errr at least through the xmpp gateway
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bret
i guess my gmail is still using old hangouts
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bret
or just 'gtalk'
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bret
so confuse
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tantek
Web UI then
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bret
tantek: are you on aim right now?
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caseorganic
bret: thank you thank you!
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caseorganic
ben's is awesome, too. really happy two indieweb submissions are live!
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bret
i would really love to see ben and erin get some resources
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bret
for idno
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dangillmor
idno looks like a great project...
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caseorganic
bret: me too
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caseorganic
bret: if the fellowship grant goes through ben would be a candidate as one of the recipients
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Loqi
benwerd: caseorganic left you a message 1 week, 3 days ago: Thanks to you and Idno for lunch! It's delicious
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Loqi
benwerd: barnabywalters left you a message 1 week, 1 day ago: markup weirdness spotted on http://idno.co — there’s an a> after the “Patrons” link
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Loqi
benwerd: tantek left you a message on 3/17 at 4:51pm: when you did start POSSEing photo posts to Twitter? Do you have an example of an early photo post with Twitter POSSE copy?
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benwerd
Ah, the "ben hasn't been in the channel for ages" dance.
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benwerd
Huge thanks for everyone's support on the News Challenge post btw. Really very much appreciated. All an attempt to work on this stuff full-time!
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tantek
benwerd - yay!
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benwerd
tantek - I hope you had wonderful birthday celebrations last week, too. Sorry I was not able to participate.
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benwerd
(Did you get my birthday webmention?)
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tantek
benwerd - thanks! Figured you had other obligations.
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tantek
still doesn't have a good UI for checking his webmentions in general :/
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benwerd
Yeah, I *still* haven't figured out notifications
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benwerd
hoping to sort that out
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tantek
maybe add it to your to do list on your User page ;) http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Werd.io
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benwerd
groovy. and yes!
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werd.io
edited /idno (+23) "/* Itches */"
(view diff)
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benwerd
I've been working on web notifications for $dayjob, and they work *so* well on Firefox for Android
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benwerd
the combination of server-sent events and web notifications is killer
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tantek
anyone have the AIM app installed on iOS or Android?!?
#
tantek
DanGillmor ?
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bret
aim is so oldschool!
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tantek
dangillmor do you have the AIM app installed on your Android?
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bret
the aim link on your site is 'invalid' on iOS
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tantek
bret - yeah - without the app installed - that's what iOS does
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tantek
for any unknown protocols
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tantek
it's kind of crap UX on the part of Apple
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dangillmor
Not on my phone. I generally do IRC only on my laptop.
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tantek
dangillmor *AIM*
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tantek
not IRC
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bret
i can install it
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tantek
bret - cool
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dangillmor
tantek: duh. still no.
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tantek
so you don't do AIM from your phone then. interesting.
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bret
i can aim from my phone, but it goes through irc XD
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pauloppenheim
tantek: does anyone use the official AIM client?
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pauloppenheim
i haven't seen it for *years*
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tantek
pauloppenheim - only on iOS
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tantek
on mac I use Adium
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tantek
bret - but your irc client doesn't handle "aim:" URLs right?
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tantek
otherwise you wouldn't get that error
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benwerd
Interesting. I'm Hangout / Facebook only on Android. Actually hadn't considered other IM clients.
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bret
tantek: nope ;(
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bret
WhatsCrap
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tantek
not going there
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bret
loljk
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Loqi
lolz
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bret
i have to make an account
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bret
one sec
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pauloppenheim
did you hear that one joke, how many hackers does it take to make an AIM account?
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bret
how many?
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pauloppenheim
count(#indiewebcamp)
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pauloppenheim
or rather, just one, but 93 others to lurk on it, i guess
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dangillmor
tantek: i've installed TextSecure for mobile messaging.
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tantek
sweet
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bret
tantek: did you get that?
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tantek
indeed! from what device was that
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bret
iphone
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tantek
/ browser
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bret
safari
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bret
mobile
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tantek
ok so at least that works
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bret
can you link to an imessage account?
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tantek
I can
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tantek
see your PM
#
tantek
whoa when did we get to 90+ in the channel?
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KevinMarks2
When we all signed in on multiple gadgets?
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pauloppenheim
hey man, i'm only in here once now
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jonnybarnes
speak for yourself KevinMarks2
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benwerd
well, yourself and your clones
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pauloppenheim
anyone in here have experience recovering an eCryptFS volume?
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tantek
is now signed in only once also
paulcp and ricmac_ joined the channel
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pauloppenheim
as is usual, asking precedes finding the answer
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tantek
Thanks for the testing snarfed aaronpk KevinMarks bret!
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snarfed
glad to!
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tantek
Some fascinating results
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tantek
And this stuff is not well documented.
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pauloppenheim
tantek: what are you working on?
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pauloppenheim
tantek: yeah, i recall that. AIM scheme dispatch testing?
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tantek
That and more
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pauloppenheim
that is awesome, i am sorry that I have not helped more
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tantek
It's ok. If you want to try out some of that stuff you can start with an hcard on your home page
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pauloppenheim
tantek: i have one already!
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tantek
Cool!!
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pauloppenheim
tantek: what i really want to do is implement indieauth so you can see more info than is already up there when you log in
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pauloppenheim
but that is in due time, work is presently pressing
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tantek
The poor ux / handling of unknown / unregistered URL schemes is making me wonder if instead every comm service should simply support a web UI that you can directly link to
#
tantek
To a link to start a message/call with a specific person
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bear
we are exploring that to get xmpp presence out to the web so folks don't have to grok what xmpp:// is
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tantek
bear: The problem is that browsers do a horrible job with new schemes
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pauloppenheim
tantek: there's a general content-type handling problem on most OSes
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bear
yep - that's why we are going to make them active buttons
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tantek
What apps handle xmpp: on what OSes?
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bear
and have it all done via http
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tantek
pauloppenheim: Not true
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tantek
Content-type handling is done quite well
#
tantek
The fallback is you get a file download
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pauloppenheim
tantek: right, i mean the OS UX when you try to open a file of an unknown content type
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pauloppenheim
tantek: or even known content type with multiple providers and no default
#
tantek
Whereas with URL schemes you get a cryptic jargon error
#
tantek
Even on iOS
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pauloppenheim
tantek: the "open with" pattern that most OSes now use is a good workaround, but Android's no-default-intent-handler popup might be a better hack
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pauloppenheim
tantek: it's not too bad on firefox
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bear
it's not fun at all when the instructions are all about "open your browser config… make 3 entries… open your OS registry…"
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tantek
Bear I agree, all with http until browsers figure out a better ux for handling unknown schemes
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pauloppenheim
"The address wasn't understood
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pauloppenheim
Firefox doesn't know how to open this address, because the protocol (asdf) isn't associated with any program.
#
pauloppenheim
You might need to install other software to open this address."
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bear
at least with Firefox on OSX I get a dialog to open iChat for xmpp:// - on chrome it just does a google search :/
#
pauloppenheim
which of course is better than just opening gedit like gnome-shell / nautilus does...
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bear
nods and cries
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bear
wanders off to find a beer
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snarfed
cheers bear!
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bret
you know whats even more anoying? when safari opens mail.app when you accidentally click on a feed link
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