#indiewebcamp 2014-03-24

2014-03-24 UTC
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: Oh great! It does seem like it should not be possible to visit things more than once with recursive set to false
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KartikPrabhu yes. But I'd like to make sure that is the case before turning off parsed
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kylewm :)
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: also on the subject of BS4, have you seen a problem with classes on the parent html tag? e.g., <html class="a b c d">
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kylewm when I do get("class"), it returns 'a b c d' rather than [
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kylewm a
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kylewm list]
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KartikPrabhu really?
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kylewm >>> soup.find("html").get("class")
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KartikPrabhu i thought bs4 handles multi-valued things nicely! i'll test
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kylewm 'a b c d'
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kylewm >>> soup.find("body").get("class")
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kylewm ['e', 'f', 'g', 'h']
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kylewm thanks! sanity check would be lovely :)
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KartikPrabhu eh! that's strange to put it midly
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KartikPrabhu strange. works fine for me in shell
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: ^^ also checked with multiple spaces to be sure
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kylewm interesting, do you know what version?
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KartikPrabhu of BS?
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kylewm yes
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KartikPrabhu eh... how do i find out? :D
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KartikPrabhu aah 4.3.2
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kylewm weird, me too! can you try running exactly the same code i am? from bs4 import BeautifulSoup;soup = BeautifulSoup("""<html class="a b c d"></html>""");soup.find("html").get("class")
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KartikPrabhu just did got : ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd']
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KartikPrabhu i'm on python 2.7.5 btw
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KartikPrabhu could it be a py 3.3 incompatibility somehow? if you're on that?
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kylewm tried it with 2.7.6
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kylewm too weird, thank you for trying it
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kylewm ah ok, do you have html5lib installed?
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kylewm i removed it and got the right behavior
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: wait so html5lib was the problem?
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KartikPrabhu doesn't seem right
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KartikPrabhu !tell snarfed: how much does bridgy/publish truncate for tweets?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: well with html5lib installed, it gives me 'a b c d', without it, it gives me a list
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KartikPrabhu strange! you can pass BS a parser to use, does that do anything?
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: ref: http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/bs4/doc/#specifying-the-parser-to-use
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kylewm do you not use html5lib? I notice that your mf2py endpoint parses http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4VCNZL/ correctly
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: I tried with all 3 parsers here is the result: lxml - ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd']
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KartikPrabhu html5lib - u'a b c d'
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KartikPrabhu html.parser - [u'a', u'b', u'c', u'd']
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KartikPrabhu
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KartikPrabhu I have not set any default parser in mf2py, so BS picks the best one as lxml > html5lib > html.parser . I am not sure which one is on my server
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KartikPrabhu my local uses lxml apparently
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kylewm I *think* this means I get to file an issue with BeautifulSoup
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kylewm thank you for help testing!
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KartikPrabhu true!
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KartikPrabhu also point out the unicode strings are diff in each :P
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kylewm good point, I use 3.3 to try to avoid those issues :)
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KartikPrabhu yeah I sould migrate my sytem to py 3.3 but I'm not sure how the other parts of my setup will hold
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: fyi - I just checked an my server uses the inbuilt python parser
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: I think when I added BeautifulSoup4, I should have removed html5lib from requirements.txt
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KartikPrabhu maybe. BS4 just uses whichever parser it can find in preference order. It is really weird that html5lib has that strange bug
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KartikPrabhu specially since it happens only only on the html tag!
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KevinMarks I'm wary that the other parsers won't be as correct for html in the wild, if they are assuming valid xml
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KevinMarks Sounds like a bug to file against HTML5lib
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kylewm KevinMarks: other parsers won't be as correct as html5lib?
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kylewm afaict html5lib does not process attributes into multi-valued attributes at all, i think that is a bs4 thing
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KevinMarks I think lxml will not do what browsers do with unclosed elements etc.
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: that is true. Ideally we should use html5lib
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KartikPrabhu but kylewm seems to have some weird bug that bs4 has with it.
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KevinMarks https://code.google.com/p/html5lib/source/browse/testdata/validator/classattribute.test would be one to try
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KartikPrabhu yup. bs4 is supposed to return a list if more that one class value is found. But using html5lib somehow it returns just a space-separated string for the html tag
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KartikPrabhu and it does that only on the html tag, body tag seems fine!
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KevinMarks Probably the HTML tag is a special case in HTML5lib, unlike the other xml parsers
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: KevinMarks: yes definitely it is a special case, if <html> is not provided, it adds it around the other tags
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KartikPrabhu i don't it is a problem with html5lib, bs4 is doing something funny
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kylewm so <body> is not the top-level tag from bs4's point of view
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KevinMarks Do you use classes on <html>? What for?
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kylewm it's all barnaby's fault http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4VCNZL/
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kylewm ;)
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks, one could use "h-feed h-entry" on html tag
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kylewm I filed a bug here, btw https://bugs.launchpad.net/beautifulsoup/+bug/1296481
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: actually I think html5lib will also auto-add <body> if it is missing. So I am convinced that html5lib is fine and bs4 is doing somethign weird
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kylewm yes, you're right, it adds html, head, and body if they do not exist, and I agree wtih you
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kylewm I believe snarfed also uses h-entry on the html tag
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KartikPrabhu so hopefully this gets fixed, and I'd be happy to specify html5lib as the parser for mf2py
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kylewm thanks again for your help, off to make dinner
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dangillmor Posse and webmention are working so well on my blog that I need to find a way to show Twitter retweets/favorites in a way that doesn't make reading actual comments so strange. Good problem to have. Example: http://dangillmor.com/2014/03/23/why-i-dont-force-my-students-to-buy-an-expensive-textbook/
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KartikPrabhu dangillmor: you mean that "likes" should not show as actual comments?
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KartikPrabhu dangillmor: I like aaronpk's approach - http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/03/19/1/ show likes/favs as a facepile and the actual comments as comments
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dangillmor KartikPrabhu: i like that. wonder if I can get this to work in the WordPress plugin...
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KartikPrabhu it seems that right now everything on your site is being saved a comment, you might need to hack around the template/plugin
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Loqi snarfed: KartikPrabhu left you a message 1 hour, 35 minutes ago: how much does bridgy/publish truncate for tweets?
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dangillmor have to take a look, see if i can understand how it's working.
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: good question! yeah, i saw your preview that was missing the link. i might be counting chars in links before they get shortened
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snarfed filing an issue now
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KartikPrabhu oh i see... so it counts that long url twice.
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snarfed oh, no, should be just once, but it's long enough
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@dougmckown Is p3k an app that a mere mortal can install on his host (http://www.bluehost.com/)? http://indiewebcamp.com/p3k #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/447932945534160896)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: In reference to this: http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2012/09/09/3/indieweb how do you post likes/reposts/favs? or do you?
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@kartik_prabhu @dougmckown Maybe @aaronpk can help you out here. Also see idno: http://indiewebcamp.com/idno (http://kartikprabhu.com/notes/p3k-mortals) (twitter.com/_/status/447941205683212288)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/dougmckown/447932945534160896/447941205683212288 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/p3k (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/dougmckown/447932945534160896/447944741619916800 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/p3k (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/dougmckown/447932945534160896/447943923487367168 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/p3k (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/dougmckown/447932945534160896/447946634760945664 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/p3k (webmention)
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@dougmckown @benwerd Yes, we need to help the average Facebook user embrace #indieweb tools. (twitter.com/_/status/447959714886725632)
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@barleytrain Built around the idea that users should own their content and have complete control over their data. #indieweb https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/2014/submissions/idno-a-collective-storytelling-platform-that-supports-the-diversity-of-the-web (twitter.com/_/status/447960541483393026)
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@benwerd @dougmckown Definitely want to make Idno easy asap. But I don't fault #indieweb for selfdogfooding with developers for now. (twitter.com/_/status/447960547741274114)
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@kartik_prabhu @dougmckown some users have been using Wordpress with #indieweb plugins. eg: http://dangillmor.com/ (http://kartikprabhu.com/notes/indie-wordpress) (twitter.com/_/status/447962771083124738)
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@dougmckown Idno: built around the idea that users should own their content & have complete control over their data. #indieweb https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/2014/submissions/idno-a-collective-storytelling-platform-that-supports-the-diversity-of-the-web (twitter.com/_/status/447963545490059264)
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aaronpk !tell snarfed did you say there was a way to get Bridgy to generate the HTML for a silo post given a URL even if Bridgy didn't discover it itself? I'm thinking about writing a script to bulk import mentions of my Instagram photos that aren't discoverable by Bridgy
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm aaronpk: I believe that was https://instagram-activitystreams.appspot.com/ with html as the format
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KartikPrabhu for those into this sort of thing: http://www.vangoghletters.org/vg/ Letter of van Gogh all on the Web with annotations!
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moofy Morning
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cweiske does someone have a GUI example for displaying linkback statuses for a website?
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voxpelli Just out of curiosity – anyone here following what is happening at the w3cpayment conference or doing any work in that area?
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/03/23/3/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-03-23/line/1395632230 (webmention)
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aaronpk why am I awake. it's gonna be a long day.
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KevinMarks Voxpelli not seen that, no. There is some payment discussion here
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Loqi snarfed: aaronpk left you a message 9 hours, 18 minutes ago: did you say there was a way to get Bridgy to generate the HTML for a silo post given a URL even if Bridgy didn't discover it itself? I'm thinking about writing a script to bulk import mentions of my Instagram photos that aren't discoverable by Bridgy
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snarfed aaronpk: sure! dirty little secret: bridgy always uses silo apis when it serves silo posts as mf2, ie it never uses its own data (right now at least)
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snarfed so you can replace the post/comment ids in those urls with others
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snarfed ….but i dont recomment that. check out http://instagram-activitystreams.appspot.com/ instead.
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cweiske all people that send out pingbacks/webmentions: do you visualize the results somehow? show errors?
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kylewm cweiske: I send back success/failure + a text description and show it in the UI while posting is happening
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cweiske could you show a screenshot please?
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cweiske kylewm, do you re-try pinging when the server responded with e.g. a "500 Internal Server error"?
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Loqi [mention] http://kylewm.com/reply/2014/03/24/2 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-03-24/line/1395674919 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://kylewm.com/reply/2014/03/24/2 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-03-24/line/1395674919 (webmention)
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kylewm noo, it's one and done
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Loqi [mention] http://kylewm.com/reply/2014/03/24/2 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-03-24/line/1395674919 (webmention)
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kylewm that took a couple tries :) http://kylewm.com/reply/2014/03/24/2
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kylewm The first pingback I sent you did go through
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kylewm it looks like it failed for the screenshot
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cweiske kylewm, thank you
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cweiske "bad response"?
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cweiske ah
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cweiske you already sent the webmention, so stapibas probably sent a "already registered"
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kylewm Failed to send webmention for http://cweiske.de/. Response status code: 400
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kylewm full description from the log, ah yes
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cweiske http://git.cweiske.de/stapibas.git/blob/HEAD:/src/stapibas/Linkback/DbStorage.php#l40
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cweiske 'Linkback from ' . $source . ' to ' . $target . ' has already been registered.',
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kylewm oh, cool! I need to print out more detailed info
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cweiske apart from that, my linkback server tries 5 times if a pingback was unsuccessful because of technical errors
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Loqi [mention] http://perfectpath.co.uk/2014/03/24/and-another-thing-talking-to-davebriggs-again/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (pingback)
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cweiske unavailablity of remote site or status code 500 on the remote side
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Loqi [mention] http://kylewm.com/reply/2014/03/24/2 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-03-24/line/1395674919 (webmention)
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kylewm Printing out more detailed info, confirming that I get "Failure for http://cweiske.de/: Status code: 400, Response: {"error":"already_registered","error_description":"Linkback from http:\/\/kylewm.com\/reply\/2014\/03\/24\/2 to http:\/\/cweiske.de\/ has already been registered."}"
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kylewm cweiske: does it try 5 times right away, or delayed somehow?
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cweiske delayed of course :)
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kylewm so that is an area where I am still pretty lost...haven't figured out how to put things on a queue/schedule
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kylewm right now everything on my server happens in direct response to a request
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cweiske I've detached sending linkbacks from posting
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cweiske when I post, I notify my pingback server that I want him to ping
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cweiske the PB server currently checks every 5 minutes if there is something to ping IIRC
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kylewm ok cool
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kylewm I would like to do something like that with everything after making the initial post...syndicating and all that
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cweiske right now I'm building an interface to check the linkback status of all links on a page
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cweiske which is why I needed inspiration
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kylewm.com edited /projects (-34) "/* Red Wind */" (view diff)
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cweiske btw, this are the rules I use to determine if I have to re-try the linkback: http://git.cweiske.de/stapibas.git/blob/HEAD:/src/stapibas/Feed/PingUrls.php#l159
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cweiske basically "always except for those reasons:"
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cweiske and after 5 tries I give up
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kylewm.com uploaded /File:PostingInterface.png "UI (or lack thereof) for posting a note, showing live feedback from all the things that happen after the post is saved."
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kylewm.com created /Red_Wind (+729) "Stubbing in info and screenshot for Red Wind" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /User:Kylewm.com (-33) "/* My project */" (view diff)
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cweiske and we don't have that problem
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kylewm cweiske: thanks that is useful! 'code' is not a HTTP status though?
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cweiske it's the code from my linkback library
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cweiske the codes map to pingback error codes
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cweiske https://github.com/pear2/Services_Linkback/blob/master/src/PEAR2/Services/Linkback/States.php
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cweiske there is a description
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kylewm.com edited /Red_Wind (+146) "little more detail" (view diff)
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cweiske pingback error codes are defined here: http://archive.cweiske.de/pingback/pingback-1.0.html#TOC3
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kylewm gotcha
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kylewm hopefully other people will show off their interfaces too
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cweiske will do soonish
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Loqi barnabywalters: bret left you a message on 3/23 at 4:25pm: thats super rad.
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Loqi barnabywalters: bnvk left you a message on 3/23 at 4:33pm: that notification flow is awesomesauce!
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barnabywalters bret: thanks! it was surprisingly easy — the notifications API is very cool
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /IRC_People (+67) (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me created /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+110) "Created page with "Hello, I'm new to Indie Web Camp, but I have some ideas and I'd love to throw my hat over the wall as it were."" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme yay
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ben_thatmustbeme Hello all, just started in, I still have a lot to do.
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barnabywalters greetings ben_thatmustbeme!
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barnabywalters welcome to #indiewebcamp
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ben_thatmustbeme thanks
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cweiske barnabywalters, do you visualize linkback responses in taproot?
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cweiske (when you send out pingback/webmentions)
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barnabywalters cweiske: not yet
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@jalbertbowdenii only reason i don't care about jekyll - hosted on github, not on my server. #ownyourdata #opendata (twitter.com/_/status/448144537517834240)
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barnabywalters ben_thatmustbeme: http://ben.thatmustbe.me/ is using wordpress right? You should check out the Wordpress wiki page if you haven’t already: http://indiewebcamp.com/Wordpress
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barnabywalters there are a bunch of great plugins which will get your blog sending and receiving cross-site comments in no time
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snarfed just fyi all, i've soft launched the new bridgy ui: https://www.brid.gy/
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snarfed publish docs and louder announcement coming soon
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barnabywalters snarfed: looking good!
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snarfed barnabywalters: thanks!
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cweiske snarfed, everywhere "no log found"
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snarfed cweiske: thanks for the heads up
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cweiske e.g. on https://www.brid.gy/facebook/11500459
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cweiske on all the date links
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barnabywalters ooh yay, a “poll now” button!
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Loqi yay!
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snarfed barnabywalters: yup
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ben_thatmustbeme barnabywalters: thanks, I hadn't yet decided if I was going to keep wordpress or not since I want to do some hacking on things
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snarfed i also considered a "resend webmentio now" button for failed webmentions, but i don't know how many people would care. holler if you want that.
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ben_thatmustbeme I think i might keep it an just test things in a subdir
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barnabywalters trying to come up with a name for my anti-spam service
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cweiske snarfed, we discussed that earlier
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snarfed cweiske: definitely! i do remember that
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cweiske k
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snarfed wider feedback is always good
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cweiske http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-03-24#t1395675927
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kylewm snarfed, I've maybe twice gone back and resent one manually with curl
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kylewm it would be really nice to have it in the UI but not critical
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snarfed kylewm: got it
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snarfed cweiske: oh i see. yeah, bridgy already retries for 3 days, backing off to once/hr
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cweiske ah, then it's fine
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snarfed the "retry now" button would just be an additional UI feature, like "poll now," if you want to retry *right now*
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cweiske k
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kylewm I might back that off a little to "nice" instead of "really nice" :)
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, IndieAuth Links plugin for wordpress 0.2 ... The package could not be installed. No valid plugins were found.
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snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: i wouldn't worry about that plugin. just add rel-me links and you're good.
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snarfed takes a note to revise the WP wiki page
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, for me i'm not too worried, would be nice to fix it for others though I suppose
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snarfed kylewm: the bridgy wms you resent with curl, do you remember how long afterward that was?
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snarfed hours, weeks, days?
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kylewm days -- after I fixed up parsing
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snarfed ok
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ben_thatmustbeme I really should be working I suppose, rather then messing with my personal site... not much to do at work today though
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tantek.com edited /Events (+800) "this week's HWC meeting details!" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /events/2014-03-26-homebrew-website-club (+3958) "draft" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-03-26-homebrew-website-club (-427) "/* RSVP */ trim" (view diff)
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tantek wiki page for this week's Homebrew Website Club is up! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-03-26-homebrew-website-club
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tantek let's see those RSVPs yo!
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tantek dietrich - can you or skinny host @MozPDX?
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tantek I've got the space @MozSF all set
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tantek benwerd, hober, iboxifoo, KevinMarks, Phae, snarfed ^^^
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snarfed woot yay!
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-03-26-homebrew-website-club (+20) "Portland RSVPs space" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, caseorganic ^^^ - hoping you can sync-up with dietrich & skinny also
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caseorganic tantek: :)
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werd.io edited /events/2014-03-26-homebrew-website-club (+82) "/* RSVP */ No longer a hermit" (view diff)
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caseorganic aaronpk: homebrew at Esri or at Mozilla?
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aaronpk morning!
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aaronpk happy to host at esripdx!
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tantek aaronpk - the new mozpdx setup worked really well with the vidyo
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tantek so hoping we can get that
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tantek I just asked in #mozpdx on irc.mozilla.org
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aaronpk ok. but I have a feeling it'll work just as well from here with the camera I used at indiewebcampsf
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aaronpk (mozsf vidyo <-> esripdx webcam)
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tantek aaronpk - you have to see how awesome skinny had it setup
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tantek the room they had was quite big too
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aaronpk the main room with the giagantic tvs?
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tantek I guess?
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tantek anyway - RSVP for now until we can get ahold of skinny and/or dietrich to figure out details
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ben_thatmustbeme You guys don't record these at all do you?
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tantek ben, sometimes we do
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benwerd tantek (& others) - might you be up for some food / drink afterwards?
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tantek they're not that much interesting to watch per se - since they're mostly in person discussions
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aaronpk we haven't recorded video at homebrew before... but there are copious notes usually
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tantek benwerd - could do!
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tantek aaronpk - we did record one - one on airmo
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benwerd cool. it's been a while, would be nice to catch up :)
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aaronpk ha oh right
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tantek yes!
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh, its okay, I just have to wait a while for the MIT camp :)
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tantek we might share a live viewing URL to see if that's interesting
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tantek for then asking questions in IRC etc.
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tantek usually Kevinmarks does an amazing job of live-tweeting
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: follow https://twitter.com/KevinMarks and @indiewebcamp
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ben_thatmustbeme thanks tantek
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tantek MIT indiewebcamp will be fascinating
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ben_thatmustbeme I hope so. I really got interested in the project from hearing KevinMarks talk about your discussions on managing contacts on TWIG. I've actually been thinking of that problem for some time
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brennannovak.com edited /store (+36) "/* Platforms */" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: oh interesting - well I hope to have another blog post in that series published soon (like today with any luck)
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ben_thatmustbeme cool, I'll keep an eye out for it.
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metafluff.com edited /events/2014-03-26-homebrew-website-club (+88) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-03-26-homebrew-website-club (+0) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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tantek benwerd - want to post an Indie Event (and POSSE FB copy) for this week's HWC meetup?
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tantek and then add links to those to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-03-26-homebrew-website-club#URLs ?
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brennannovak.com edited /store (+2073) "/* Requirements */" (view diff)
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tantek bnvk - have you seen all the Mozilla work on open app stores?
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tantek lots there you could document and re-use, likely as-is, since it is all web-based (rather than proprietary silo based)
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bnvk tantek: nah, I haven't seen it, any links you can point me to?
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tantek bnvk - it's only shipping on every FirefoxOS phone worldwide ;)
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tantek here's a good starting point: https://marketplace.firefox.com/
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bnvk Yes. I have not seen anyone who has one IRL over here in Europe
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tantek anyway, it's deployed, it's shipping, it's based on open web, so take that however you will
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bnvk Looks pretty nice!
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tantek seems like a reasonable starting point :)
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bnvk yah, only thing is it's fundamentally quite different than what my app store idea is trying to do- mainly have support for not only HTML5 web apps
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bnvk AFAICT it is only HTML5 apps, right?
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tantek bnvk - really? what's the point of that in the scope of indiewebcamp.com/store?
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tantek or do you mean serverside?
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bnvk yes, serverside
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bnvk or rather, software, that is connected to the internet
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tantek so you've come around to the client vs. server distinction I was trying to convince you of :)
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bnvk I still like the idea of at least trying to view non cloud servers as viable hosting ;)
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tantek your point: " it's fundamentally quite different than what my app store idea is trying to do" is in contrast with the examples of apple/android app store that you listed top of the page
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tantek my point is that the open web app store is like those except based on open web tech, so is a better example from the perspective of figuring something out for the server
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bnvk right, installing Wordpress or IDNO on hardware a user controls, e.g. a Pi, or a VPS
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tantek bnvk - so that distinction is super not obvious on the /store page
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tantek which seems like it is client side focused given that you open with the apple/android examples
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bnvk feel free to edit :)
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tantek I was waiting for you to curate accordingly :)
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tantek (since you were/are making so much progress on the page, and clearly had a specific vision for it)
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bnvk hehe, yes definitely been putting in a bit of work as of late on it
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tantek I'm definitely excited by the prospect of server-side installing/setup being made "as easy" as modern clientside app stores.
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tantek That's a hugely worthy effort
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bnvk cool
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tantek it's definitely one of those "hard problems" that will make the indieweb easier for everyone (gen 1,2, etc.)
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bnvk yah, definitely!
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bnvk I'll add a block right now to try to better explain
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snarfed.org edited /events/2014-03-26-homebrew-website-club (+84) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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tantek bnvk, sweet!
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brennannovak.com edited /store (+265) "/* Examples */" (view diff)
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kylewm I think I'm finally going to have to thrown in the towel on auto-generating text for tweets ... notes with several links etc
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kylewm impossible to know what to keep in the tweet
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: why not auto-generate but keep ability to edit the auto-gen one. That way it'll work mostly and special cases can be handled separately
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: even better, but I will have to translate the shortener to JS!
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KartikPrabhu aah yeah :)
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KartikPrabhu doesn't cassis.js by tantek have one?
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tantek :)
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benwerd tantek - was at UPS store (ugh), will post event now
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dietrich hm, google calendar cannot import the events ics linked from v
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dietrich http://indiewebcamp.com/Events
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dietrich because robots.txt
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-1 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-03-26-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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snarfed dietrich++
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Loqi dietrich has 1 karma
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tantek dietrich - if you can find a unique useragent for Google Calendar I'll see what I can do about updating h2vx robots
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tantek as it was, Google's spiders were being too stupid to not just keep trying to crawl ICS feeds from every h2vx link on there (when they should just be indexing the hCalendar and h-calendar directly)
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tantek *web search* spiders
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tantek which would request the ICS and then just dump it on the floor (since Google Web search does nothing with ICS either)
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dietrich tantek: https://developers.google.com/webmasters/control-crawl-index/docs/crawlers?csw=1
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dietrich hm
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dietrich no calendar on there
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tantek right, this is a Google deficiency on multiple fronts as noted
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dietrich hrm
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tantek Google is not very traffic/CPU etc. friendly to small services
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-1 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-03-26-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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tantek unintentionally I'm sure, but neglectful at best
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kylewm looking at another microformats issue, tommorris has 2 h-card's on his site, the second has all the interesting details http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http://tommorris.org/posts/8867
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kylewm do you interpret those as 1 combined h-card?
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: good question. I've been confused about this one too.
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werd.io edited /store (+11) "/* Projects */" (view diff)
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snarfed kylewm, KartikPrabhu, i'm guessing you've both seen http://microformats.org/wiki/representative-hcard and http://indiewebcamp.com/authorship
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snarfed not that either of those will solve this problem, just related
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yeah I have seen those. but this seems to be a small h-card vs detailed h-card problem
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: right. i wonder which one the representative h-card alg would return
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kylewm snarfed: I don't think I had, and I do think that algorithm answers my question. use the first h-card with u-url == rel=me, or something along those lines
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tantek snarfed: Which has rel-me u-url properties?
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tantek tommorris could choose to combine them by giving them the same u-uid
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@benwerd I wrote this back in 2009. Fantastic to now see this kind of thing coming out of the #indieweb community: http://benwerd.com/2009/10/12/danger-in-the-cloud-a-proposal/ (twitter.com/_/status/448179612380454912)
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KartikPrabhu kylewm, snarfed, tantek: yes the representative algorithm picks the more detailed one! very nice
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tommorris Yes, I should really do that.
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@ShaneHudson RT @benwerd: I wrote this back in 2009. Fantastic to now see this kind of thing coming out of the #indieweb community: http://t.co/LicZRiQQ… (twitter.com/_/status/448179910507773952)
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kylewm ty, tantek & snarfed
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tantek Then we just have to document application-level merging of h-* objects with the same u-uid
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tantek KartikPrabhu: Sweet!
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tantek I think barnabywalters has a representative hcard function
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gRegor`_ Is Nickserv down?
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ben_thatmustbeme looks fine to me
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gRegor`_ Hm. I have a registered nick, but someone else is using it somehow.
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KartikPrabhu gRegor`_: you can just do "/nick yourname" to change it for this channel at least
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gRegor`_ I can't. Someone else is using it.
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gRegor`_ That's what is odd.
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aaronpk are you sure you're not connected from somewhere else?
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gRegor`_ I thought if you /nick to a registered nick, it booted you after a few minutes if you didn't ident
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gRegor`_ Yeah, it's definitely not me. :) /whois gRegor`
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gRegor`_ This all seems correct, too:
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gRegor`_ NickServ Information on gRegor` (account gRegorLove):
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gRegor`_ NickServ Registered : Feb 07 21:53:22 2014 (6 weeks, 2 days, 21:57:42 ago)
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gRegor`_ NickServ User reg. : Feb 03 19:13:22 2014 (7 weeks, 0 days, 00:37:42 ago)
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gRegor`_ NickServ Last addr : ~me@71.239.44.58
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gRegor`_ NickServ Last seen : Mar 24 01:22:57 2014 (18 hours, 28 minutes, 7 seconds ago)
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gRegor`_ NickServ Flags : HideMail
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gRegor`_ NickServ *** End of Info ***
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aaronpk weird, it's this guy and he's from portland! http://codu.org/
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aaronpk and you can log in to his wiki wth openid!
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gRegor`_ Guess I can use my canonical nick
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ben_thatmustbeme just a ghost?
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gRegorLove Nickserv just told me there was one failed login attempt by that other Gregor since I logged in last.
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gRegorLove This is strange.
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gRegorLove Maybe he tried to register with NickServ and it let him?
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gRegorLove But my password still worked just now.
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aaronpk change it!
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gRegorLove Good call
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: t'would seem mf2py doesn't get <a rel='me'> links, only <link rel='me'> links?
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KartikPrabhu it should get all of them
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KartikPrabhu example?
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kylewm http://kylewm.com/api/mf2?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftommorris.org%2Fposts%2F8867
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kylewm (the same page from tom's site)
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@gasull Software monoculture - IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture (twitter.com/_/status/448189783018594305)
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KartikPrabhu so is the rel=syndication missing?
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kylewm yes, rel=me too
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kylewm compare with http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http://tommorris.org/posts/8867
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tommorris kylewm: I’ll have a look at mf2py real soon now. crazy busy
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@NT_polylogue Syndication is back POSSE - IndieWebCamp: https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/448190396351676416)
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: that is interesting. I suspect it has to do with the whole "parsed" set thing. I'll open an issue
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kylewm tommorris: thanks! my intent is not to pile work on anyone else, just to catalog issues if I come across them that one of us can fix some day :)
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tommorris kylewm: do file it as an issue on github though.
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KartikPrabhu kylewm, tommorris: opened a issue on the mf2py BS version:https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py/issues/27
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tommorris cool. I’m gonna merge BS in soon too. again, need some time in my life. ;)
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gRegor` Figured it out. You can issue a "release" command to NickServ to force the nick to be released.
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KartikPrabhu tommorris: np!
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gRegor` For reference: http://www.freenode.net/faq.shtml#nickisgone
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@AndySylvester99 @dougmckown saw your Webmention post, glad the video helped! http://dougmckown.com/2014/03/22/webmentions-enabled-for-this-site/ (twitter.com/_/status/448192727847415808)
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gRegor` Nice domain, ben_thatmustbeme. And welcome aboard. :)
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ben_thatmustbeme haha, thanks
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ben_thatmustbeme originally I figured I would get something I could share hosting with friends on
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ben_thatmustbeme is twitter's URL shortener for rel=me links what is messing up auth with them?
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@kevinmarks "@snipeyhead: WordPress hosting: Don't try this at home! http://t.co/PC5DLV7Dbl" monoculture problems #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/448199578618064896)
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@Shoq RT @kevinmarks: "@snipeyhead: WordPress hosting: Don't try this at home! http://t.co/PC5DLV7Dbl" monoculture problems #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/448199687880065024)
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@fdevillamil RT @kevinmarks: "@snipeyhead: WordPress hosting: Don't try this at home! http://t.co/PC5DLV7Dbl" monoculture problems #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/448200138151174144)
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: no it's an ssl issue right now. when I moved indieauth to the new indiewebcamp server it'll be fixed
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www.ashersilberman.com edited /IRC (-8) "/* Quick Start */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh okay, thank aaronpk
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brennannovak.com edited /store (+131) "/* Ideas */" (view diff)
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brennannovak.com edited /store (+13) "/* Ideas */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /feed (+292) "/* Criticism */" (view diff)
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@t going to Homebrew Website Club, 2014-03-26 18:30 @MozSF. indieweb: http://werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-1 silo: https://www.facebook.com/events/1409507205977978 (ttk.me t4VD1) (twitter.com/_/status/448236415886053376)
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@codepo8 RT @t: going to Homebrew Website Club, 2014-03-26 18:30 @MozSF. indieweb: http://werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-1 silo: https://www.facebook.com/events/1409507205977978 (ttk.me t4VD1) (twitter.com/_/status/448236710829510656)
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@schnarfed RT @t: going to Homebrew Website Club, 2014-03-26 18:30 @MozSF. indieweb: http://werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-1 silo: https://www.facebook.com/events/1409507205977978 (ttk.me t4VD1) (twitter.com/_/status/448239652172873728)
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aaronpk what exactly does retweeting an rsvp mean?
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pauloppenheim exceitement
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pauloppenheim s/exceitement/excitement
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Loqi pauloppenheim meant to say: excitement
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pauloppenheim thanks Loqi
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Loqi you're welcome
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pauloppenheim when the AI apocalypse rains down upon us, i will at least know that I am welcomed by our new robot overlords.
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pauloppenheim Singularity Approved™
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gRegor` considers a counter-criticism section for /feed
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gRegor` On my site I've chosen a single-post view for articles. When I add notes, I will display several on a page, but I don't intend to change the article's display.
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gRegor` Seems rather intensive for an h-feed reader to need to hit, say, 10 pages to get my most recent 10 articles.
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aaronpk I don't think that's a counter-criticism of RSS and Atom, that's more of a criticism of h-feed
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aaronpk also that isn't really that intensive, cause imagine someone visiting your site, they'd have to click 10 times to see all 10 articles anyway
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gRegor` Vs fetching one RSS feed, though, is what I meant.
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snarfed one approach would be to include full article contents in the h-feed and hide parts via display: none
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aaronpk otoh you have people like tantek who had to reduce the number of posts in his atom feed because it was taking up too much bandwidth having the file downloaded in its entirety each time
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aaronpk so perhaps the 10 pageloads is actually a feature
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snarfed eh. i think we've overoptimized solving for that specific problem
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aaronpk i'm just saying i wouldn't worry too much about that either way until you actually have a problem with it one way or the other
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aaronpk tantek had a real issue, so had to address it. i doubt you will have an issue with separate pageloads or with too high bandwidth usage on a single large file for a while, so best to spend your energy elsewhere :)
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snarfed sure. gRegor` 's is actually reasonable though. if he doesn't render full article contents in his h-feed reader, and you subscribe to him in your selfoss reader, you wouldn't get full contents either
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aaronpk as a reader, that's fine with me, i'll click the thing if the headline is interesting
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snarfed right, but that's you. i'd rather have the full contents.
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aaronpk then your reader can pre-fetch :)
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snarfed true!
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gRegor` I'm not concerned about bandwidth currently. Mostly just approaching it from "RSS vs h-feed". You're right, it is more a criticism of h-feed.
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aaronpk since the preference is really on the consumer, it doesn't really seem like something the publisher should decide
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gRegor` aaronpk: Your h-feed reader only pulls in titles currently?
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aaronpk no, but some people only publish titles so I only see the titles for theirs
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snarfed (re tantek's issue, i haven't researched it thoroughly, but i have to admit i'm a bit skeptical. most feed readers are pretty good with head requests and etags these days. i wonder how easily he could have cut down that bandwidth problem with some head handling and caching headers)
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aaronpk and I don't really mind it, in fact I prefer a title+picture or title+summary over seeing the full article in my reader anyway
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tantek it's more work to do an RSS feed than an h-feed - why are you making more work for yourself?
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tantek if you don't want to put a feed on your home page - no problem, then you can make it a separate URL
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tantek there is still no excuse for a) separate format (i.e. just use HTML+h-feed), b) inefficiencies of all the XML based formats
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tantek whether home page or separate URL for your "feed" is semi-orthogonal to the format issue
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tantek except that XML based formats FORCE you to have a separate URL
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tantek whereas if you just use h-feed, it's your CHOICE whether to put your feed on your home page or on a separate URL
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tantek perhaps this needs a 2x2 table
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tantek gregor - I will put forth that there is zero advantage besides legacy consumer support for RSS/Atom/XML/RDF (which is a non-trivial advantage, but that's it)
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tantek for all other reasons, "just" using h-feed, whether on your home page or on a separate feed.html page, is much easier, more reliable etc.