#indiewebcamp 2014-04-05

2014-04-05 UTC
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KevinMarks not at the moment
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aaronpk old news :P
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KevinMarks https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7495657
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kylewm *5* days ago??
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kylewm expected that to be years
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KevinMarks I am confuse
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, by the way, i have yet to even try it out, but does anyone want an invite in to the beta of Github's Atom editor?
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kylewm snarfed: bridgy's twitter module strips '_normal' from the user's profile image URL ... would you consider a PR for activitystreams's Twitter.user_to_actor to do the same thing? Or would there be a better way to go about it?
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kbs farhad manjoo - pretty astute guy
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KevinMarks I thought this was good: https://commonspace.wordpress.com/2014/04/04/mozilla-is-human/
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kylewm it's good to read that viewpoint, KevinMarks. I was seeing a lot of outrage on Twitter about "intolerant leftists" running him out of his job, and it made me sad
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@kevinmarks "@scalzi: @amandapalmer This is why I don't use Facebook for anything important, career-wise–& why I have a Web domain I control." #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/452239633149997057)
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KevinMarks we should recruit scalzi to use webmentions
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Loqi yea!
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kylewm and amanda palmer!
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KevinMarks we should invite amanda to the cambridge camp
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Loqi definitely
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@kevinmarks "@amandapalmer: we do not have thousands of being sitting on my web domain, awaiting content. but man, can you imagine if…” #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/452246798346616832)
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ben_thatmustbeme That would be cool
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@StuartFilms RT @indieporch: Judy Davis at the premiere of web series 'Enlightens' and 'Chronicles of a Profiler' #indieweb http://indieporch.com/post/80 http:… (twitter.com/_/status/452269046407651328)
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kylewm.com edited /User:Kylewm.com () "(-709) /* Todo */" (view diff)
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@gcarothers ah ha! instagram user-id != username ... #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/452283227323904000)
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aaronparecki.com edited /IndieAuth (+3) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ phrasing" (view diff)
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snarfed hey kylewm, just replied to your PR
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snarfed thanks!
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aaronpk anybody else submitting an osbridge talk?
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@CaptainKurtis Does @GNUsocial and #indieweb stuff go together? This federated social media idea is awesome! http://indiewebcamp.com/GNU_social @mattl @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/452312798585188352)
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aaronpk we have a GNU_social page?
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@mattl @CaptainKurtis @GNUsocial @indiewebcamp I think it does. We use @creativecommons attribution license for posts. Plus federation is awesome. (twitter.com/_/status/452313266878812160)
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@CaptainKurtis @mattl @GNUsocial @indiewebcamp Oh, I didn't know abt the @creativecommons part. I'm excited for @MediaGoblin to bring us federated A/V too. (twitter.com/_/status/452314096277684224)
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@CaptainKurtis RT @teamidno: Check out our submission for the @knightfdn #newschallenge: https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/2014/submissions/idno-a-collective-storytelling-platform-that-supports-the-diversity-of-the-web #indieweb http://hello.idno.co/s/4fswb (twitter.com/_/status/452354950706651136)
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@maxbarners Own your data and your identity: really great talk by @caseorganic on IndieWeb stuff. https://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/452355006923276288)
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@TheRiver RT @maxbarners: Own your data and your identity: really great talk by @caseorganic on IndieWeb stuff. https://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/452403582462337025)
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tommorris.org edited /site-deaths (+150) "/* Upcoming */ adding Ubuntu One" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks "@jonl: "Without my indepenent platform, PressThink, no one would want my advice." ~ @jayrosen_nyu #isoj http://t.co/JjisfAisUu" #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/452452547572146176)
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GregFalken Anyone available for a dumb question?
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kylewm GregFalken, welcome! ask away
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GregFalken Trying to install wordpress-uf2 and don't know where to put or initialize it.
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kylewm are you running your own wp or on wordpress.com?
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GregFalken My own.
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snarfed GregFalken: out of curiosity, have you looked at SemPress?
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snarfed it's a more full featured and easier to use alternative to the uf2 plugin
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GregFalken Yes but I really like my current theme (Genesis based).
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snarfed notably, it's in the theme directory, so you can install it in the wp admin console
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snarfed ah, got it
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snarfed i take it you haven't installed a wp plugin by hand before?
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GregFalken No, I have (that's why it's a dumb question). Do I just drop the php files in the /plugins directory?
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snarfed you can either put uf2.php there directly, yes, or you can put the wordpress-uf2/ directory there with uf2.php inside it
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snarfed and then no config, it should Just Work
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GregFalken That's what I thought but I've tried it both ways and it doesn't work.
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snarfed hmm. so it shows up in the plugins page, and you've activated it, but it does nothing?
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GregFalken Wait, I think it's working. I see "h-entry" as a class on the body of my post.
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snarfed aha, great!
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snarfed yup, that's it. it's pretty minimal.
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snarfed (other classes too, but not much else)
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GregFalken So why is this better than HTML5 attributes?
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snarfed you can test on http://indiewebify.me/
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snarfed re html5 attrs…search me.
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GregFalken Ah well, at least it's working. Thanks for the help.
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snarfed np!
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kylewm GregFalken, so there's some cool stuff you can do right away. If you write a reply to another indieweb post, and then let them know where your reply is, they can parse it for comment author/body/etc.
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GregFalken How do I let them know where my reply is?
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snarfed kylewm: http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention
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snarfed er, oops. GregFalken: http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention
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kylewm some sites have a form at the bottom too, e.g., http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/10/12/2/indieweb
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snarfed kylewm: replied to the second PR. out of curiosity, are you thinking of using activitystreams-unofficial in a project?
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kylewm snarfed, sadly nothing that exciting. I just noticed that twitter comments on my site were showing up with smaller pictures
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GregFalken I don't have my head wrapped around this well enough to know. Thinking of using POSSE to post from a "Notes" category on my blog to other SM.
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dariusdunlap Reading brid.gy docs &source, with coffee in one hand, and a hound at my feet. Pretty good morning. ;-)
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snarfed dariusdunlap: glad to hear it!
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kylewm dariusdunlap, almost exactly the same here, except s/hound/cat
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kylewm :)
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snarfed kylewm: huh. if the _normal stripping was happening in bridgy instead of a-u, shouldn't the comments still have had the big pictures?
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snarfed or maybe handlers.py doesn't do that. looking...
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dariusdunlap ... Yeah, cats are around here somewhere... :-)
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snarfed aha, yeah, handlers.py doesn't strip _normal. got it.
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kylewm rawr, sorry I should have told you WHY I was doing stuff not just what stuff I was doing ;)
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snarfed lol. np!
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dariusdunlap Is there a way to make iPad colloquy stop disconnecting every couple minutes?
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snarfed dariusdunlap, if you're thinking about ADN in bridgy, you might start by adding it to the oauth-dropins project. necessary step, and very self-contained.
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dariusdunlap Hmmm. Cool, right now I'm trying to wrap my head around the bits and parts. Yesterday I refreshed a bit on ADN.
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dariusdunlap Oauth-dropins is one of your projects?
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kylewm oh btw, I had solicited advice from you guys (snarfed, aaronpk) a few weeks ago about a background queue. too late in the process I found out uWSGI has a built in "spooler" which is quite nice for my purposes
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aaronpk oh neat
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aaronpk that's convenient
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dariusdunlap snarfed: Got it... Checking it out now.
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kylewm aaronpk, yeah! it's not nearly as slick as beanstalk but nice to use something that was part of one of my pre-existing dependencies anyway
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aaronpk yeah makes sense!
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dariusdunlap I’m not sure how annoyed to be about Colloquy on iPad. I think maybe I’ll just turn off the “away” and “back” notifications. But it does remind me that reading up on the new(-ish) iOS background process functionality is on my list. :-)
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snarfed dariusdunlap++. hiding join/part messages is key
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Loqi dariusdunlap has 2 karma
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KartikPrabhu is at a physics conference and will try to give a presentation written in HTML! here goes nothing...
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kylewm break a leg, KartikPrabhu :)
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KartikPrabhu scream out in pain!
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KartikPrabhu curse you! klewm
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kylewm too literal!
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kylewm sanity check -- what's a reasonable amount of time in which to render the front page of a site?
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kbs would it depend on how desperately the consumer of the page wants it I guess? :) At the _client_ end anyway, assuming a browser
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kbs probably seeing something useful in a few seconds won't lose you too many people - there's been lots of studies that I personally take with a big pinch of salt. cf http://programming.oreilly.com/2009/07/velocity-making-your-site-fast.html etc.
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kbs But there are just too many unknowns if you are measuring rendering at the client end
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kbs where it's probably the most useful. Not least of which is having some useful knowledge of the latencies between server and client, the content of the page, how any given browser decides to render it, etc...
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kbs I can't quite tell - does twitter use any (semi-?)standard markup to indicate the author of a tweet (from the tweet url)?
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kylewm kbs it should always be twitter.com/author/status/id, is that what you mean?
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kbs kylewm: i was thinking more whether there any embedded microformat [or something else] within the html content returned from that url, that would point me to the author of that tweet?
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kbs or whether I'm stuck with some twitter-specific assumptions [like what you suggest, that is.]
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snarfed kylewm: for pure server side processing, shoot for under a second
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snarfed lots of great latency debugging tools. http://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insights/ is a good starting point
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snarfed kbs: the username is usually in the url itself
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snarfed (but that's twitter-specific)
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kbs snarfed: right
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snarfed sorry, need to read better :P
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kbs no worries, repeated useful info is still good :)
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kylewm kbs, for scraping i recently used .permalink-tweet > .username ... I don't think there's anything too standard
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kylewm snarfed, thank you for the tips!
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snarfed np! some tips, others nitpicky arbitrary style demands :P
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snarfed thanks for agreeing to them
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kbs kylewm: gotcha, and thanks for that selector
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Loqi [mention] https://snarfed.org/2014-03-08_8324 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF (pingback)
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kbs er, to clarify something naive :) rel=me pretty much makes sense only on a profile page, rather than on posts or feeds is that correct?
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kbs [and presumably, rel=author on posts or feeds points to the profile page]
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kbs or is that one of those things 'true in theory' but 'false in practice' :)
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aaronpk that sounds correct, yes, rel=me is supposed to point to a profile page
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aaronpk a post page should have rel=author pointing to the profile page for the author of the post
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kbs aaronpk: cool, thanks for the clarification.
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@ubax XEN 1.0: A relationship meta data profile, for all the people you hate with a passion and are your enemies. http://xen.adactio.com/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/452514203514191872)
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aaronpk lol!
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KartikPrabhu #success!
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kbs nice :) curious, astrophysicist? [imagines a modern-day Cliff Stoll]
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KartikPrabhu kbs: more like mathematical physicist...
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kbs ah, living an even more intellectual plane - very cool.
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KartikPrabhu :)
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KartikPrabhu here is the presentation in case some likes staring at math: kartikprabhu.com/static/talks/Positive-energy-and-stability-of-black-holes-APS2014/aps2014.html
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KartikPrabhu http://kartikprabhu.com/static/talks/Positive-energy-and-stability-of-black-holes-APS2014/aps2014.html
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kbs 's inadequate math knowlede means sadly, he'll need to wait for the movie
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KartikPrabhu movie! w00t!
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Loqi giggles
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kbs I realize I'm still confused about the distinction between rel=me and rel=author :) but first - is there a semantic distinction between a <link rel=me> and an <a rel=me> ?
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KartikPrabhu kbs: semantically I don't think so
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aaronpk correct
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aaronpk kbs: http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-me
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aaronpk http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-author
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aaronpk "rel-author is for linking from an article or post (e.g. marked up with hAtom) to a page or site representing its author."
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KevinMarks right
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KevinMarks so rel-me is for page/site about you
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KevinMarks rel-author from an articel to such a page
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KevinMarks it gets confusing when the page is mostly a lsit fo articles
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aaronpk a rel-me link from one page to another indicates they represent the same person
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kbs thanks - let me continue to digest this
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kbs I guess what I see in practice isn't quite matching up to the semantics of this, which is maybe why I'm confused by what I'm seeing.
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KevinMarks thing is, profiles and blogrolls were often in sidebars
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KevinMarks so they'll end up creating XFN links from article pages too
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KevinMarks my blog has fossil forms of this (I haven't touched the XFN-marked up blogroll in years)
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KartikPrabhu kbs: I think of them quite literally. rel refers to relation for this page, so rel=me would be "this page is me" and rel=author would mean "this page was written by the author"
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KevinMarks it's a bit trickier
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KevinMarks rel strictly means the relationship of the linked-to page to the current one
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KevinMarks which is why vote lineks ended up using rev, then got dropped as confusing
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kbs Let me ask a question this way. Let's say that on the entire internet, there's only one page K that represents kevinmarks. However, kevinmarks is a prolific writer and there are tons of pages that he's authored. Would there be any rel=me links to K, on the internet. [ignore any links on page K]
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aaronpk it's kind of magic when I actually get a push notification on my phone from my code
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kbs means "semantically correct" links just to be pedantic - I realize anyone can rel=me link to K :)
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KevinMarks there shouldn't be.
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KevinMarks yes, that was my point - there are lots fo those because of the naive thing I did with social graph api
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kbs cool - that clarifies it thanks :) so the only rel=me links should be from profile page->profile page
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KevinMarks yes, but you will see them in blog siebars
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KevinMarks eg http://epeus.blogspot.com/2008/01/urls-are-people-too.html has a bunch of rel=me links in
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kbs KevinMarks: great - thanks for the clarifications. Iteratively coming to grips with the nuances of it
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kbs probably will have missed something subtle again, but think I see better how it's supposed to work
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KevinMarks so if you find a lot on the same domain, especially if they have bloglike URLs, you may want to prune back to the top level
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KevinMarks not sure if brad did that
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kbs *nod* - I'm currently doing so for some set of domains, but haven't found a general way to do this
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KevinMarks https://code.google.com/p/google-sgnodemapper/source/browse/trunk/sites/blogspot.js
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KevinMarks maybe
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kbs heh
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kbs has rather similar code for flickr
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KevinMarks yes, that strips things on blogspot.com
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KevinMarks https://code.google.com/p/google-sgnodemapper/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2Fsites
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kbs awesome - thanks much
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KevinMarks the flickr one has a lot of good knowledege encoded in it
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KevinMarks seems like sgnodemapper should be adopted and updated by indieweb
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KevinMarks looks like https://github.com/webjay/sgNodeMapper has been touched slightly more recently
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KevinMarks are you workign in python kbs?
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KevinMarks I forget
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kbs my current experiment, I wrote in java
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KevinMarks ah, 'cos there's this in that tree too https://github.com/webjay/sgNodeMapper/blob/master/plaxo-rel_me_crawler.py
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kbs excellent - thanks for the pointers
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kbs I shall gleefully steal from the regexps etc, if nothenig else. [snapshot of my experiment is at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18852638/draft/lindy/lindy.html]
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KevinMarks sgnodemapper is in js, but bradfitz used spidermonkey to run from java iirc https://github.com/webjay/sgNodeMapper/tree/master/embedding/java
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KevinMarks no, wait rhino
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kbs [I'm tinkering with the idea of locally running apps/applications
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kbs maybe in conjunction with contact books and messaging on android, dunno]
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kbs so everyone is pretty much using some custom domain-specific code, that's good to know :) I thought I was doing something silly
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KevinMarks the point of that effort was to converge it...
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kbs *nod* Unfortunately don't know anything about the history, so probably have lots of un-clued notions. Hope to learn from all the experience here...
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kbs I should test this, but being a lazy guy :) does google chain rel=author links to surface authorship, or does it expect a direct rel=author link to the plus profile page? eg: /post [rel=author] -> /profile [rel=me] -> plus.google.com/+user, versus /post [rel=author] -> plus.google.com/+user ?
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Loqi I agree
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KevinMarks it certainly used to chain them
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KevinMarks not tested recently
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kbs cool. Much thanks for all the tips and pointers
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kbs I learn more in a few minutes than in any other tech crowd.
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snarfed kylewm: merged both PRs. thanks again! deploying now…
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kylewm !tell snarfed thank you for reviewing so quickly! it ended up being more work than i'd wantd to give you but i appreciated the feedback :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi snarfed: kylewm left you a message 41 minutes ago: thank you for reviewing so quickly! it ended up being more work than i'd wantd to give you but i appreciated the feedback :)
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snarfed kylewm: not at all, it's a good contribution. reviewing is always less work for me than writing the code myself :P
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tantek looks like #osbridge submission deadline has been extended - anyone know til when?
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tantek checks http://www.opensourcebridge.org/ and sees " Our call for talk proposals is open now, through April 11th!"
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tantek lots of great proposals on and touching on the indieweb - I encourage everyone to submit their own, on their own projects etc.! http://opensourcebridge.org/events/2014/proposals
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tantek !tell snarfed in particular, I think a talk on the concept of Backfeed and using Bridgy to demo it woudl be great! http://opensourcebridge.org/events/2014/proposals
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk oh! i wonder why the extended it! they got tons of submissions already