#indiewebcamp 2014-04-12

2014-04-12 UTC
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@hellekin @YourAnonNews That's pretty good to block those no? It leaves some space for the #IndieWeb :P @timberners_lee @AnonyPress (twitter.com/_/status/454781961777594369)
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rascul hi
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KevinMarks hello
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rascul i've recently discovered this indie web thing, it looks real interesting
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rascul lots of good information in the wiki also
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KevinMarks great! (I hit close on the wrong window there, sorry)
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rascul hehe those silly X buttons
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KevinMarks what's your website?
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rascul http://rascul.io
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rascul nothing there as of yet
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rascul i've been playing with different designs for weeks now i still haven't got it how i like it heh
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KevinMarks hah. I have loads of crappy installs on subdomains on my site too. I should kill some of them
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rascul http://crash.rascul.io is my latest design based on a bootstrap template i found
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rascul i kinda like that one, the final design might be something similar but without bootstrap
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rascul a goal of mine is for everything (ar at least as much as possible) on my main site to be completely made by me
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KevinMarks bootstrap 3?
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rascul yes
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rascul i've been looking at the indiemark stuff and i plan on implementing a good chunk of that
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rascul hrm actually i feel like working on it now
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tantek welcome rascul!
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rascul thanks you
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gRegor` https://twitter.com/EFF/status/454798954115244032
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@EFF BREAKING: Heartbleed vulnerability can reliably extract SSL secret keys. Attack demonstrated by @indutny. https://www.cloudflarechallenge.com/heartbleed (twitter.com/_/status/454798954115244032)
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gRegor` (The breaking is that it's now been demonstrated)
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rascul http://xkcd.com/1354/
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KartikPrabhu pretty much!
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KartikPrabhu !tell snarfed added pytz and timezone to twitter and sent PR
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi snarfed: KartikPrabhu left you a message 18 minutes ago: added pytz and timezone to twitter and sent PR
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tantek hence "SSL removed and added here"
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tantek reminder - you have til midnight to submit an #OSBridge proposal! http://opensourcebridge.org/events/2014/proposals/new
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tantek I've submitted two, one new and one re-submitted: http://opensourcebridge.org/proposals/1421 and http://opensourcebridge.org/proposals/1422
rknla, j12t, squeakytoy2, friedcell, squeakytoy, LauraJ, tobiastom, pasevin, pasevin_, Kopfstein, yaf, KartikPrabhu, kbs, markmhendrickson, tantek, ttepasse, snarfed and bupkes joined the channel
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bupkes I've got my site pretty well indiewebbified right now, thanks to WP plugins...
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kbs yay :-)
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Loqi woot
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bupkes thanks :)
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bupkes however...
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bupkes i've just started learning html/css/JS
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bupkes and I want to delete WP off my server and start fresh
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bupkes so what i'm asking is what advice would ou have i
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bupkes doh
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bupkes what advice would you have in terms of what to implement/learn first?
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bupkes i've already set up rel=m to my twitter etc
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bupkes i guess look into h-cards and stuff next?
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kbs would you still be using WP, or just creating html files etc "by hand"?
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bupkes ol..........,k
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bupkes argh cat feet sorry!
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bupkes I'm doing it all by hand. I want to know the real basics first
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bupkes so I've got an .html and a .css file ready to upload
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kbs gotcha. I think [as far as indieweb-specific stuff goes] marking up your content with the h-* formats would be one idea, as you say
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kbs It might also depend to some extent on what you like doing. If you're interested in making a nicely designed site - probably might continue exploring css.
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bupkes ok I shall look into that stuff first then.
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bupkes yes I'm coming at it
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bupkes my day job is teaching people to use computers with screenreaders...
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bupkes ...so what i really want to get a grip on is the semantic stuff and the html
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kbs aah, okay I see
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bupkes but yes i like pretty things too so css too :)
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kbs yes - think if you're interested in semantic markup - definitely h-* [and perhaps exploring other microformats, tags etc] would be the way to go
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bupkes cool. thanks for the advice :)
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kbs and I was going to say - would also suggest continuing to pinging other folks here - unfortunately [being a dumb coder] I have a skewed sense of reality :)
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bupkes haha well i think you've given me some pretty sound advice.
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Loqi awesome
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aaronpk whoa instagram is down
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/instagram/statuses/455025601553108993
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@instagram We’re working to fix a feed delivery issue. Thank you for your patience. (twitter.com/_/status/455025601553108993)
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kylewm this appears to be no longer true, "John O'Nolan .. is not yet running it on his personal (identity) domain at http://john.onolan.org/" http://indiewebcamp.com/Ghost#Lack_of_selfdogfooding
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aaronpk oh cool!
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kylewm should I update to be past tense, or remove it?
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aaronpk update to past tense and add the date you noticed, or if you can figure out when he started publishing with ghost
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kylewm ty, will do
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kylewm.com edited /Ghost (+146) "/* Lack of selfdogfooding */ changed to past tense, woo!" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /Ghost (+91) "/* Dogfooding at launch */" (view diff)
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bret aaronpk are we for sure at new esri?
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bret for the next hwc
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aaronpk oh! yeah
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aaronpk not this week right?
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bret next week
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aaronpk cool. we're moving in on monday so it'll still be pretty crazy there probably this week.
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aaronpk new address: 309 SW 6th Ave, Suite 600
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bret aaronpk should I make a new location on calegator?
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bret or update esripdx
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aaronpk there's already a new one on calagator
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bret w00t
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Loqi woot
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aaronpk also: http://calagator.org/events/1250465994
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Loqi Esri R&D Center Office Warming! on Wednesday, May 7, 5:00pm at Esri R&D Center, Portland (New Office Location!)
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bret oh shnap
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bret.io edited /Events (-23) "/* Upcoming */" (view diff)
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bret !tell gRegor just updated the next HWC wiki page, can you look to make sure chicago details look right?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk just "claimed" the esri venue on foursquare so I can manage it
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bret !tell KartikPrabhu just updated the next HWC wiki page, can you look to make sure chicago details look right?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk I'm interested in btsync but have mixed feelings about it
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bret why?
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bret btsync is so rad
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bret its a bummer it isnt open source
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aaronpk have you been using it?
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bret daily
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aaronpk yeah, it's nice that it's actually p2p, but sad that it's not also open source
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aaronpk like I don't mind paying for dropbox cause they don't even pretend to be open at all
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bret i sync an encrypted keepass library to my devices
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aaronpk but btsync feels like a weird hybrid
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bret here is how I use it. High security files i keep in btsync like keepass files
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aaronpk that's it?
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bret i also use btsync for photo backup and large files
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aaronpk ah ok. I would mostly be using it for large files and photos
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bret for small files i need high availability on, i use dropbox
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aaronpk also lots of small text files
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bret that way I dont need extra space on dropbox
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aaronpk what benefit do you get from dropbox?
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bret high availability
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aaronpk how is btsync not high availability?
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bret if only one device is on, btsync failes
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bret fails*
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bret till i set up a server backend
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aaronpk if I had it running on a server at home it seems like it would be fine
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bret i also set up sparkleshare, but i dont use it very often
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bret no reliable mobile client
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bret aaronpk what are your mixed feelings on btsync?
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aaronpk mostly that it's not a paid service but it's also not open source
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aaronpk so in order to keep using it, I have to trust that the company will stick around, but I'm not even paying them anything
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bret the worst thing bt.inc has done so far is charge for bullshit addons in utorrent and have sketchy installers where you have to "cancel" to install software without installing crapware
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bret aaronpk if it means anything to you, people still use utorrent 2.x way back from 2006ish
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aaronpk heh
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bret and since its p2p it just keeps working
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aaronpk true
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kbs the main issue i found with btsync is that both sides need to be active at the same time
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bret kbs this is true with dropbox, but they just do it for you ;)
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aaronpk I don't really see that as a problem
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bret aaronpk, if i had to guess, i would say bt.inc might get into the dropbox buisness with paid hosting
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kbs I mean to say, issue i found 'for me' :)
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kbs so I run scripts that use dropbox as an intermediate hosting bit
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bret aaronpk like they would provide encrypted backend in a non dorky way
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aaronpk bret: yeah that's a good call
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bret given that btsync was an overnight sucess, they are going to need massive scalling
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bret maybe thats why it hasnt launched yet
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kbs encrypt->dropbox -- recipient ->dropbox [and delete] works ok for me as a btsync equivalent
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@gasull RT @kevinmarks: “In every case other than your own domain a centralized service provider… can also revoke your profile” #indieweb http://t.… (twitter.com/_/status/455052983555076096)
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bret kbs, thats a nice workflow but not p2p is it?
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kbs hm - functionally, it is - no? :)
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kbs I don' really see using a third-party store-and-forward as much different from a third-party network service
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kbs [by which I mean, my internet provider]
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kbs uses this to share pictures with close friends and family - scripts runing within a openwrt router+disk drive
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bret kbs unless you are in a country that blocks dropbox and you dont have a vps
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bret i guess bittorent could be filtered
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kbs yes, doesn't work with a country that blocks dropbox. Don't need a vps
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bret but they have dont a lot of encryption work to make that harder
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bret done(
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bret *
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bret im a sucker for p2p, love that stuff from a tech standpoint
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kbs sorry, not sure exactly what you meant :) but I'm sure my goofy solution isn't for everyone - just thought I'd put it out there for entertainment
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bret dont appologies!
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bret ;)
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kbs running scripts on openwrt + dropbox + encryption + dropbox-as-store-and-forward ends up being reasonable enough for some set of people, I guess :)
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bret kbs the other thing about btsync that is rad is that the more people who want the files, the faster the connection gets
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kbs I'm pretty sure btsync makes sense in a lot of contexts, don't get me wrong
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bret just thinking out loud here
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bret.io created /events/2014-04-23-homebrew-website-club (+4278) "Updated the next event page" (view diff)
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kbs I kinda think there are a few workflows that I've felt for my little group. One is what I think of as 'disconnected sharing'. Eg: I take a pic, don't want to use my data plan, but want to share with friends
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kbs just want it to "do the right thing eventually"
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kbs second, tends to be archiving - (also disconnected) - some set of stuff - just archive when you get around to it, don't bother me.
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kbs but all of them, I'd prefer to stay encrypted when it's moving around, just because.
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kbs btsync is great
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kbs but tends not to work well in both those other workflows (for me, I hasten to add)
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kbs er, "both those workflows"
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kbs So what I've ended up doing is some crude mixture of android apps to exit stuff off my phone, and some openwrt routers sitting at my friends and family and it's kinda sorta working
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kbs undoubtedly, someone smarter than me will make all this trivial over the next decade and be a happy camper :)
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: bret left you a message 35 minutes ago: just updated the next HWC wiki page, can you look to make sure chicago details look right?
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kbs looks for folks to start implementing 'indiebox' :)
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gRegor` What's indiebox?
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kbs I dunno :) some sort of personal storage service is what I was vaguely thinking
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aaronpk http://indieboxproject.org/
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aaronpk oh wait were you joking?
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kbs aha!
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kbs more wondering, and now I no longer need wonder :)
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aaronpk yep j12t is working on that!
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kbs cool
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kbs j12t == indiebox? didn't know that - thanks for the pointer.
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aaronpk he often comes to the homebrew meetups too!
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kbs hm
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kbs it's a bit more generic than what I was imagining, but cool none-the-less
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gRegor` I've been pondering today what to do with my media library at home.
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gRegor` Currently my mp3s are just trapped on an XP (yes...) desktop.
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gRegor` Heh, the indieboxproject goals page is 404. http://indieboxproject.org/blog/goals/
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gRegor` Goal 1: Find our goals
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Loqi bear_: kbs left you a message on 4/8 at 12:20pm: just wondering - https://bear.im/pubkey.txt has both the expired and the new key, deliberate decision?
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kbs oh, gRegor` and aaronpk and anyone who has any thought to offer - currently to figure http://indiewebcamp.com/pgp#Private.2C_Transient.2C_Async_Messaging, interested in all and any ideas/brickbats/feedback
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kbs s/to figure/trying to figure out/
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Loqi kbs meant to say: oh, gRegor` and aaronpk and anyone who has any thought to offer - currently trying to figure out http://indiewebcamp.com/pgp#Private.2C_Transient.2C_Async_Messaging, interested in all and any ideas/brickbats/feedback
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aaronpk ah great use case description
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gRegor` brickbats? Haha
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gRegor` I'll take a look
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KartikPrabhu anyone know their way around regex?
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aaronpk a litle
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aaronpk also http://rubular.com/ is a great tool
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KartikPrabhu so I have some time string of this sort "Wed May 23 06:01:13 +0000 2007" and I want to separate the timezone from the date i.e. I want "Wed May 23 06:01:13 2007" and "+0000" how do I do that?
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aaronpk that is a messed up string
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KartikPrabhu The first string can be obtained by re.sub
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aaronpk and you're *sure* it'll always be in that format?
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KartikPrabhu yes. Twitter told me so :P
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KartikPrabhu re.sub(' [+-][0-9]{4} ', ' ', time_str) this will remove the timezone but how do i extract the timezone?
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aaronpk this will get you the three parts individually http://rubular.com/r/gZwNNs4J41
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gRegor` Does python have something like PHP's strtotime()?
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aaronpk or do that yeah
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gRegor` Convert it to something sane, then pull out what you need
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KartikPrabhu gRegor`: yeah but it isn't timezone aware!
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aaronpk lol!
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gRegor` Really? Odd
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kbs language==python?
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KartikPrabhu gRegor`: yeah very odd. that is the first thing I tried
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KartikPrabhu kbs: return True
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: thanks
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kbs KartikPrabhu: oh, okay. [had some thoughts if it was java..., python not so much.]
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KartikPrabhu kbs: np. I think aaronpk's suggestion should work...
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aaronpk bret: want to come see star wars improv tonight? http://aaron.pk/n4VY1
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: are you sure datetime.strptime isn't timezone aware?
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aaronpk (or anyone else in portland too!)
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kylewm I don't know for sure that it is, but it has %Z and %z
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KartikPrabhu strftime uses %z fine enough but strptime does not
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kylewm I used DATE_FORMAT = '%a %b %d %H:%M:%S %z %Y'
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kylewm to parse twitter dates pre-bridgy
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kylewm oh! dang
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: I tried datetime.strptime(time_str, '%a %b %d %H:%M:%S %z %Y') and it says "ValueError: 'z' is a bad directive in format '%a %b %d %H:%M:%S %z %Y'"
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: are you sure it worked with the %z ?
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kylewm >>> datetime.datetime.strptime("Wed May 23 06:01:13 +0000 2007", "%a %b %d %H:%M:%S %z %Y")
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kylewm datetime.datetime(2007, 5, 23, 6, 1, 13, tzinfo=datetime.timezone.utc)
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kylewm
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kylewm
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kylewm this is python 3
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kylewm should i try with 2.7?
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kylewm oh you're right, it doesn't work with 2.7!
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kylewm that's weird
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KartikPrabhu :| if that worked it would have been awesome
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kylewm sorry for the noise and/or false hope
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KartikPrabhu eh np. good to know that it works in py3
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KartikPrabhu aaha! snarfed is bridgy python 2.7 or python 3?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: 2.7
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snarfed it runs on app engine, which doesn't do 3 yet
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KartikPrabhu booo! the timezone problem could be easily solved in 3 it turns out
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snarfed heh, i know the feeling
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KartikPrabhu strptime is timezone aware in py3 but not in py2.7
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snarfed …more importantly though, looking at irc logs, i don't think parsing a timezone out of twitter timestamps is enough on its own
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snarfed since afaik twitter timestamps are all utc
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snarfed you have to look at the user's utc_offset field to get their timezone
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snarfed (sadly)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yes. But i thought it would be more future-proof to do that anyway and then add user tzinfo
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kylewm i see why it doesn't work in 2, there's no concrete implementation of tzinfo
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: ah yes. true!
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snarfed kylewm: yeah, sigh. the big picture of the python 3 migration is mixed at best, too, unfortunately
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snarfed (but that's a different debate)
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kylewm of course
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kylewm i use it on personal projects but i know it's a luxury that real projects cannot afford
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kylewm i'm also surprised pytz is so large
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kylewm i know timezone stuff is wrinkley but it's several MBs of code
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kylewm fwiw, i've resigned myself to parsing dates with regexes too ... difficult to even support the optional 'T' between date and time otherwise
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snarfed regexes, the claw hammer of parsing code
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kylewm (to paraphrase) when regexes are your hammer, everything looks like a thumb
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snarfed hah yes
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: added commits with timezone things
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KartikPrabhu no user loacal time yet though
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: thanks! looking now.
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KartikPrabhu you might want to move the class OffsetTzinfo to utils or something
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snarfed on a related note, http://labix.org/python-dateutil looks like a much smaller alternative to pytz
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snarfed we can still probably do twitter timezones without a new dependency at all, but it just looked interesting
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: new commit looks great! i'm adding minor comments but nothing major
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KartikPrabhu cool!
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snarfed i'd eventually probably move the tzinfo class into webutil/util.py, but we can do that afterward
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snarfed my one big remaining request is a unit test :P
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yes the tzinfo class could be moved but I didn't have that lib in my fork. hmm will look into the unit test. where are the current unit tests?
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snarfed twitter_test.py
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KartikPrabhu just found!
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snarfed you can run them with ./alltests.py or e.g. ./alltests.py —debug TwitterTest.my_test_fn
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@libel_vox @kinlane Familiar w POSSE? http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE Don't see re-syndication ala Twitter fading but I do see need for different content flow (twitter.com/_/status/455081093729775617)
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: k, done commenting. sorry for picking so many nits. i'm excited to get this in!
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KartikPrabhu np. I should get a consistent style too :)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: I am a bit confused about the re.search comment. I'm not good at regex.
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snarfed ah. np! i'll merge it like this and show you what i mean in another commit afterward
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KartikPrabhu aah ok i'll fix the nits then :)
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: new commits look good! alltests.py passes now?
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KartikPrabhu eh I should check...
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snarfed :P
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KartikPrabhu I actually do not have a local version of that repo :P
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snarfed oh i meant activitystreams's alltests.py
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KartikPrabhu yeah me too! :P
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snarfed you don't have a local version of that repo? how were you making the changes?
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KartikPrabhu on github... being very irresponsible I know...
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KartikPrabhu I did test the functions I modified...
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snarfed ahhhh i see. yeah, sorry, you'll want to clone it locally and run the full alltests.py. annoying, i know
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KartikPrabhu np! I should have been doing that already... time to reboot my git skills
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snarfed on a related note, hey kylewm, you squashed the commits for one of your recent PRs, right? i'm curious how you did that after they'd been pushed to github
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: the alltests.py simlink is broken after I cloned it locally
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snarfed ah, you need to run git submodule update —init --recursive
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snarfed (i think)
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snarfed details in the readme
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KartikPrabhu oh ok
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snarfed kylewm: oh i see, you just rebase -i and rewrite history on the topic branch. got it
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: It seems I can't clone beautifulsoup!
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: huh. what's the error message?
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KartikPrabhu "Permission denied (publickey).fatal: Could not read from remote repository.Please make sure you have the correct access rights and the repository exists. Clone of 'git@github.com:JinnLynn/beautifulsoup.git' into submodule path 'beautifulsoup' failed"
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snarfed ah. hmm.
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snarfed i assume you've uploaded your ssh public key to github? probably yes if you're pushing to your repos
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KartikPrabhu hmmm I don't recall doing that specifically unless it automatically happened
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snarfed ok. hmm. thinking
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KartikPrabhu but yeah I have pushed from local to my repos before
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snarfed do you have a key on https://github.com/settings/ssh ?
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KartikPrabhu hmm no
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KartikPrabhu I should?
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Loqi agreed.
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snarfed probably yes
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: I've just been using my password while pushing, i'll look into this SSH thing
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snarfed sorry for the rabbit hole!
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KartikPrabhu np! These are all things I should be doing anyway
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snarfed https://help.github.com/articles/generating-ssh-keys
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yeah found that... I wonder why I was able to push/clone before without doing that
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snarfed with your password
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snarfed at least for pushing. for cloning, you were probably doing it over https, but activitystreams's submodules are set to use ssh
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KartikPrabhu oh I see. so that is a setting in the repo itself!
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snarfed well, a setting on a submodule, yes
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KartikPrabhu cool...
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KartikPrabhu ok gtg. I'll do this and run the test and send you a note when it passes
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snarfed thanks KartikPrabhu!
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snarfed you might also need to d/l and install the app engine sdk to run the tests: https://developers.google.com/appengine/downloads#Google_App_Engine_SDK_for_Python
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snarfed unpack it into your ~/google_appengine dir
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