#indiewebcamp 2014-04-16

2014-04-16 UTC
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tantek and if not, what is it missing in what you would otherwise call a "mobile client"?
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snarfed tantek: this is kind of the standard mobile web vs native apps debate
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kylewm tantek: Webber definitely does run his own MediaGoblin
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snarfed (which i'll mostly avoid :P)
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kylewm he's active on pump.io (which MG is built on I think)
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tantek no its not the "standard … debate" - it's focused on "what is it missing in what you would want"
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tantek the "standard … debate" is more conceptual / handwavy / dogmatic / useless
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tantek and thus yes, worth avoiding
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aaronpk I will chime in again later, off to dinner
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kbs speaking for myself, primarily it's the ability to do crypto locally and access content on the device. Browsers don't have sufficient access for these.
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snarfed aaronpk: heh, good call
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aaronpk But I have some opinions
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tantek kbs - "crypto locally" is not a feature any "normal" user cares about. It's not a use-case at all. What's the actual feature you're talking about?
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kbs private messaging
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snarfed for my part, i was thinking of the common points that native apps (currently, in practice) are faster, more responsive, much more tolerant of offline/flaky connectivity, can interact more richly with the device and other apps, etc
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tantek kbs - "access content on the device" - do you mean keeping content locally accessible without HTTP? you can do that with your website using localstorage.
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snarfed (yes, technically there are web standards for doing much of that, but in practice they're pretty far behind)
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kbs tantek: not really. Specific case in point - I want to automatically upload pictures taken from my phone to some online store (and later on archived to my local drives)
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kbs all this, I'd like to keep encrypted from start to finish
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kbs and
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kbs whenever the phone gets into wifi range, automatically.
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tantek kbs - private message - already exists - m.twitter.com implemented that via DMs
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tantek does not require "native client"
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tantek snarfed, "native apps" are only "faster" in practice due to VERY BAD javascript practices (bloated libraries etc.) on the part of majority of web developers.
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snarfed tantek: sure! that's the current reality though.
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snarfed i can try to address that on my own site, but not on most other sites.
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kbs tantek: I have a feeling we might be approaching it differently - my personal view of 'private messaging' is at http://indiewebcamp.com/pgp#Secure_communication -- confidential doesn't mean DMs, not to me at least
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tantek snarfed, but your own site is all that matters here - that's what we're talking about
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tantek making your own site your indieweb mobile client
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tantek and re: "current reality" - my site tantek.com loads and displays faster than Twitter iOS client
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kbs I also have another [similar] specific use case at http://indiewebcamp.com/pgp#Private.2C_Transient.2C_Async_Messaging
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tantek so no - current reality is: don't use lots of crappy JS, and you can beat loading perf of any native client
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tantek *trivially*
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tantek "more responsive" is a problem because of the .3s click/tap delay which there are workarounds for. Though that is a real problem that a web developer has to make a special effort to fix.
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tantek (assuming by responsive you mean - latency responsive)
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snarfed tantek: page loading is one special case of performance in general…but i understand your point.
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tantek (because obviously in terms of layout responsive, mobile web sites kick butt over native fixed layouts)
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snarfed eh, native fixed layouts are generally ios-specific, not mobile in general
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tantek (mobile native clients are usually crap for even portrait vs. landscape responsiveness)
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snarfed but at a higher level, i'll rephrase. for me personally, ditching native apps for web sites is not at all an itch i currently have or want to tackle. i'm here mostly for owning my own data, not so much preferring web to native apps
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snarfed that's just me though
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tantek "much more tolerant of offline/flaky connectivity" - this one does require more work on the part of the web developer
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snarfed well, and also browser support, which can take a while to trickle out to mobile oses
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tantek snarfed - I find "native" apps so much more crash prone that I often use their equivalent mobile web site instead.
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snarfed the connectivity one is the biggest one for me
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snarfed tantek: hmm. definitely not my experience.
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tantek snarfed, agreed, the "offline" use-case is huge
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snarfed failed at avoiding this debate
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kbs heh
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tantek and no one has built decent libraries for that for mobile web app development
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kbs senses a religious schism here :) ah well
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tantek snarfed - less of a debate, more of an attempt to understand specific points
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tantek kbs, everything above cites specific examples, unless you're saying people prefer "native" clients due to marketing
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kbs as have I, I think :)
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tantek kbs, except you made the "senses a religious schism" remark
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tantek snarfed, competely agreed on this: "can interact more richly with the device and other apps" re: "native" over web
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snarfed hence why you've been pushing hard on the ios url schemes for that?
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tantek snarfed - that's just *one* aspect that I'm personally pursuing for a very specific use-case
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kbs tantek: remark comes from not actually seen you respond to my specific use-cases either
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kbs and perhaps it's because you haven't got around to it, dunno
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tantek on a broader - device hardware etc. perspective, FireFoxOS is developing WebAPIs for all the various device capabilities
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tantek you can see how far we've come here: http://arewemobileyet.com/
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snarfed true! that is great
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tantek kbs - I'm going depth first on snarfed's comments first ;)
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kbs tantek: ah - my mistake then
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snarfed very cool dashboard
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KartikPrabhu fwiw I think "indieweb does not have mobile apps" is not an argument
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KartikPrabhu does not know how late he is to this party
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kbs :-)
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kbs I'm mostly agnostic I guess - I use browsers as UI-on-the-desktop, and mobile-apps-as-UI on phones. They all access 'the web' as I understand it anyway
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KartikPrabhu kbs: yes and that is the point.
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KartikPrabhu also: https://twitter.com/zeldman/status/456211435732107265
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@zeldman Remember my article “Style versus Design”? Seems @Adobe has removed all traces of it from the web. Pity. (twitter.com/_/status/456211435732107265)
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KartikPrabhu note... unrelated statements
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kbs Maybe I misunderstood tantek 's point of view on this - my impression is that he'd much rather just have browsers on phones for all most activities
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KartikPrabhu I'll avoid putting words into tantek's mouth. but the point is that for most things apps do exactly the same thign as websites but sort of worse
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KartikPrabhu for eg: why should I make 2 apps iOS and Android while I can do the samething with a website?
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kbs yes - this nutty phase of doing an identical app for a website is silly
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kbs but for myself, I've about a 50/50 split of actual things I need to do on the phone that need a specialized app
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KartikPrabhu and so is the demand that everything should have an app especially indieweb
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KartikPrabhu kbs: there maybe things for which a native app is better, but I doubt they are that many and useful for any definition of "not geeky/normal" users
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KartikPrabhu probably that is what tantek was saying...
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kbs Maybe so
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kbs but specific things that I don't think I'm particularly unusual - podcasts, archiving photos to and from my phone, offline email
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kbs I don't really have an ax to grind - just really think there are things that browsers do well, and other things that [as of today] native apps do well. This has always been the case on the desktop as well, and the mix changes over time
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KartikPrabhu kbs: they don't seem unusual/weird but I wonder how many people actually do that?
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KartikPrabhu or to remain closer to topic: what is one thing that an indieweb site would need an app to do?
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kbs doesn't think of an 'indieweb' as synonymous with a site - guess maybe that's where things go a bit haywire :)
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KartikPrabhu sure but that is how that tweet/question was phrased
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KartikPrabhu I don't have an ax to grind either, but I am mildly annoyed by "no app == not relevant" attitude
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KartikPrabhu even though I'm not a developer
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KartikPrabhu is not saying that that is/was your attitude :)
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kbs thanks :) was wondering. but speaking for myself - my thought vis-a-vis your question [I hope!] is more of a situation for me - roughly centered around archiving stuff off my phone easily
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KartikPrabhu yes! I think we are mostly agreeing :)
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kbs so to take a concrete example of one such thing
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kbs I have about a gig or so of random photos that accumulate on my phone. What I want is a simple way to archive that safely
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kbs and I honestly can't think of a browser-based way to accomplish this
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kbs but I do have apps that do just this
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kbs and I don't really think much about it beyond that [ie, don't have any deep desire to make it a browser-based feature for some reason]
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kbs I consider this indieweb for example - it's my data, and I'm saving it in places that make sense to me
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KartikPrabhu kbs: to a similar question I brought up once, aaronpk (I think) answered that at the moment indieweb means owning your web identity. For instance indieweb does not mean that we should host our sites on our own machines
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KartikPrabhu so it seems that though you use-case is perfectly indie
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KartikPrabhu it might not be what indieweb might be focussing on right now
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kbs makes sense :)
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kbs There are some overlapping places surrounding 'identity' and 'contact management' though, where things are a bit more gray
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KevinMarks I should make flowpast indieweb as well as twiter
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KevinMarks notifications being the mobile app feature
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KevinMarks noterlive works as an offline posting app for twitter :D
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KevinMarks caseorganic: is your SF talk tomorrow night? I signed up for it but can't find the note
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kylewm https://ti.to/passion-projects/amber-case
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kylewm KevinMarks ^^
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KevinMarks thank you
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kylewm I think I still have it open from clicking the link that you might have tweeted? :P
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KevinMarks heh
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KevinMarks should ahve searched my links
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KevinMarks I'm assuming there will be some indieweb in that...
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aaronpk so I guess my thing about this app discussion is more related to making things more modular
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aaronpk I have no desire to build a reader into p3k for example
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aaronpk I don't want to develop or maintain all of the parts needed for a reader
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aaronpk and doing so would actually be making p3k more of a mini monoculture
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KevinMarks that was my point about flowpast
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KevinMarks which just makes android notifications that link through to tweets
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KevinMarks if i make it link to indie notes too, then it cna be the same
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aaronpk I'd rather use external apps (native or web, doesn't matter) to consume feeds and they would create content like favs/reposts/replies on my site via my micropub endpoint
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: agreed wit modularity. but that is quite independent of "indieweb native apps"
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aaronpk nah it's totally related
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: elaborate? I thought you said "(native or web, doesn't matter)"
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aaronpk right, so if I build p3k as an API (h-entry for consuming, micropub for creating) then I can use either native or web apps with it rather than tying myself to either decision
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KevinMarks the unified read/write experience is interesting though
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KartikPrabhu true! but i thought the whole argument was about whether "indieweb" apps were 'needed'
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aaronpk totally, I expect to be able to do that from an external app
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aaronpk both read and write content to my site
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aaronpk I think they are needed, otherwise we're painting ourselves into a monoculture hole. If every indieweb project has to implement unified reading/writing, then we're really just building mini silos.
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KartikPrabhu no, i mean why 'native apps'?
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KartikPrabhu i.e. iOS/Android
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aaronpk why does it matter?
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KartikPrabhu exactly!
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aaronpk we shouldn't be making decisions that prevent native apps from being possible
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Loqi yea
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gRegor` I'm a little confused on the usage of p-author vs p-name. I'm looking at your mentions page as a guide, aaronpk
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KartikPrabhu to bring back context: https://twitter.com/fdevillamil/status/456191771979313154
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@fdevillamil Had some great talks about #indieweb lately. Biggest issues: too geeky for "normal" people (to be defined) and no iOS / Android apps. (twitter.com/_/status/456191771979313154)
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aaronpk checks my mentions page
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aaronpk hm I don't seem to be setting the p-author properly
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gRegor` I'm doing mine slightly differently. I don't have a full reply context yet, so don't list my author information there. I basically want to quote (h-cite?) people's mentions in a stream.
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gRegor` E.g. John Doe replied to [post title] "blah blah blah"
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aaronpk heh I just realized... should I be publishing those as h-cite or h-entry? (the content from other people)
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gRegor` I can show a mockup, just a moment.
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gRegor` I . . . I don't know. :) I was thinking h-cite
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aaronpk yeah that makes more sense now that you mention it
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gRegor` I'm also a bit confused on the distinction of p-comment.
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aaronpk where is p-comment from?
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gRegor` Hm, not yours. Maybe I got that elsewhere. Or misread.
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aaronpk tantek: when you get a chance, would love to get your take on how a /mentions feed should be marked up. I'm second guessing myself now. http://indiewebcamp.com/mention-app#h-feed_parsing
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gRegor` This is what I have so far, sans h-cite which I'm pretty sure I need to add. http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fmicroformat-test.php
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@kevinmarks @arctictony well, there is indieWebcamp NYC http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/NYC though that may be too soon to get a flight for now (twitter.com/_/status/456247336377667584)
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tantek darn I fell behind.
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gRegor` This is where I got p-comment from: http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#How_to_markup
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tantek has been wrestling with power (electrical) problems this afternoon.
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gRegor` But it may only make sense in context of appearing on the same page as the h-entry the webmention is in response to.
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tantek would say something about indiepower, but the problems were all local, the grid appears to be fully operational.
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gRegor` Heh
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tantek aaronpk - short answer: the h-entrys in a mentions feed should have identical data to the actual h-entrys that *are* the mentions.
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tantek if there's any use-case that that doesn't work for - please document it
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gRegor` tantek: Is this proper use of h-cite - same level as the h-entry (still in the context of a mentions feed): http://gregorlove.com/microformat-test.php
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tantek.com edited /mention-app (+268) "/* h-feed parsing */ provide summary, split off notification UI brainstorming to a separate section" (view diff)
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tantek gRegor`: I don't think that example makes sense
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tantek what are you trying to communicate with that example?
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gRegor` It's going to be a stream of webmentions I have received. Similar to Twitter's "Mentions" page.
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tantek (i.e. if it's an entire entry, then it doesn't need to be an h-cite. there's no value in marking it up as an h-cite)
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gRegor` I only put one in the example
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tantek if all you were doing was citing a summary of the entry, e.g. name, URL, dt-published, then sure an h-cite would make sense
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gRegor` I was thinking h-cite was a way to let parsers know the h-entry is not mine, but someone elses.
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gRegor` Ah
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tantek parsers know the h-entry is not yours from the u-url of the h-entry and the p-author of the h-entry
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tantek assuming by "yours" you mean your home page (URL) and your name (i.e. h-card)
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gRegor` Got it. Makes sense.
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gRegor` Am I correct that p-comment as used here http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#How_to_markup only makes sense if the webmention is appearing within the h-entry it is in reply to?
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gRegor` Hm, that section confuses me more, actually.
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tantek that's right. in that context you're merely referencing (citing/quoting) the comment (even if you're quoting the whole thing). you're not intending it for syndication / transport
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tantek whereas in a mentions feed, it's entire purpose is to syndicate / transport that information to some other visualization (like the mention-app)
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tantek it only gets (somewhat) confusing if someone decides they want to syndicate the comments on a specific post.
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gRegor` I hadn't even thought about mention-app, but that's an added bonus. :)
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tantek I know there are feed files that do that sort of thing, but in practice people don't really use that.
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tantek not sure how to capture those answers in an FAQ
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tantek gRegor`: if you can figure out where to capture some of your questions and those answers (i.e. where you might have discovered it originally and had it make at least some sense to you), I'd appreciate it!
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gRegor` Sure
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gRegor` I think you lost me a bit on the syndicating comment from a specific post, but don't worry about that for now. I understand the small piece I need to. :)
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kylewm.com edited /posse-post-discovery (-28) "/* Discover POSSE copies via rel-syndication */ fix incorrect statement about PuSH before POSSE" (view diff)
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tantek ok yeah - then ignore the bit about syndicating comments from a specific post
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tantek as in forget about it. if it's an actual use-case someone cares about, it will come up again, and happy to recreate my thinking on that from first principles at that point.
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gRegor` Working on capturing this. "mentions-stream" or "mentions-feed" might be a candidate new page?
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gRegor` Adding a Q&A on h-cite to begin
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tantek that would be great - an FAQ section on /h-cite
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tantek to at least handle that h-cite vs. h-entry question
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kylewm on /h-feed, does "canonical full feed" refer to an h-feed with all post types on it?
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kylewm like if I wanted to parse werd.io, how would I get to werd.io/content/all ?
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tantek unrelated pro-tip: if you Mac Mini starts up with a very loud high-revving fan that won't turn off, do the following: 1) shut down. 2) unplug its power cord for like a minute. 3) hold the power button down for 10seconds (resets SMC). 4) release power button. 5) plug power cord back in. 6) gently but firmly press power button to turn it back on. <-- this just worked for me.
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tantek s/if you/if your
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Loqi tantek meant to say: unrelated pro-tip: if your Mac Mini starts up with a very loud high-revving fan that won't turn off, do the following: 1) shut down. 2) unplug its power cord for like a minute. 3) hold the power button down for 10seconds (resets SMC). 4) release power button. 5) plug power cord back in. 6) gently but firmly press power button to turn it back on. <-- this just worked for me.
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tantek sheesh
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kylewm more of a mini-tip than a pro-tip really...
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tantek hahaha :)
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tantek kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 7 karma
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tantek (advice on the web by searching Google sucked, as usual)
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tantek (this kind of tech Q&A stuff is seemingly unsolved by search engines)
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tantek (and then you have lame login-wall silos like Quora)
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KevinMarks that is the apple answer but you have to search for reset pmu
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KevinMarks maybe stackexchange?
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tantek not pmu. smc
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tantek KevinMarks - you're mistaken. this is special about the mac mini
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gregorlove.com edited /h-cite (+287) "/* See Also */ FAQ: When making a mentions stream, should I use h-cite around each entry?" (view diff)
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KevinMarks aha
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KevinMarks you probably need to google "zap the pram"
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tantek and yes - that same confusion is present on many of the "answers"
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KevinMarks as that is what people still call it
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KevinMarks :D
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tantek and "zap the pram" gives you lots of old out of date info
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tantek gets lost briefly in reading werd.io thanks to kylewm
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tantek like this: http://werd.io/2014/seeking-an-indieweb-alternative-to-google-voice
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KevinMarks aha It was a pmu in powerpc mini. old hardware
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kylewm haha, sort of a bad example since he's not using h-feed, but for posse-post-discovery I'm trying to figure out how to find syndicated content for sites that don't have (all) posts on the front page
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gregorlove.com edited /h-cite (+66) "/* FAQ */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /communication (+297) "/* Articles */ add benwerd's post on indie alternative to google voice, reverse chron, ISO ordinal not worth the DRY violation" (view diff)
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tantek is off to get dinner eats
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tantek will try to catch-up with the awesome mobile web apps vs. native apps state of development discussion
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tantek awesome being the discussion that is
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KevinMarks2 Hm, it'd cost me $500+ to fly to nyc for indieWebcamp, let alone accommodation. I've left this too late really
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rascul there's gonna be a nyc one?
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rascul oh it's right there on the front page right where i would miss it
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@kevinmarks "@timburks: Just think of the hell we could raise ^w^w^w^w fun we could have if we all ran a server on the internet." #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/456265415811821568)
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@kevinmarks @timburks right, it is no longer natural to be abel to run an addressable server. BTW see http://indiewebcamp.com/pgp#IndieWeb_Attendees_using_PGP_to_exchange_encrypted_messages for similar (twitter.com/_/status/456267497046425600)
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KartikPrabhu thinks this whole date time parsing thing is horrible!
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KartikPrabhu now trying to convert a ISO date to python datetime!
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snarfed heh
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snarfed iso 8601?
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snarfed maybe see https://github.com/snarfed/webutil/blob/master/util.py#L244
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KartikPrabhu oh! boy!!
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snarfed :P
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KartikPrabhu i should have guessed you already had this somewhere
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snarfed heh
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Loqi I agree
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KartikPrabhu made progress in webmention parsing ref: http://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog#responses has much better mf2parsed data
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kylewm that looks really good!
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kylewm what's up with the first comment? is that you sharing your own post?
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kylewm (not that there's anything wrong wth that)
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KartikPrabhu lol.... eh it is me sharing your comment on my post to the same one! :P
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KartikPrabhu still have some tweaking as you can see :)
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kylewm hehe, it never ends... well nice work!
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kylewm I just sent you an issue on mf2py to restore balance to your todo list (but i will look at fixing it tomorrow, you don't need to)
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KartikPrabhu thanks! more to go... adding better display and all that... but that for tomorrow.
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kylewm good night KartikPrabhu, good night Loqi
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KartikPrabhu wait! really! mf2py misses h-* on html element?
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Loqi sleep tight!
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KartikPrabhu aah yes... good call good night! will look at it tomorrow
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kylewm ack, it might be a regression from my recent change? i don't remember it doin that
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kylewm or maybe html5lib
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: we'll deal with it tomorrow
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kylewm :)
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@mrmzholland if any #indieweb / #indiewebcamp folks could ping me a webmention on this post, I'd very much appreciate it: http://bupk.es/2014/04/16/28/ (twitter.com/_/status/456326453747933185)
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KevinMarks2 The HTML element was down to html5lib, wasn't it? We want to use html5lib, so may need a specific patch
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@mrmzholland @kartik_prabhu thanks for the webmention! Unfortunately it didn't show up... http://bupk.es/2014/04/16/37/ (twitter.com/_/status/456341109812502528)
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bupkes hmmm having trouble accepting webmentions. need to fiddle with the WP settings i think.
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cweiske bupkes, you can send webmentions yourself with curl
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cweiske so you can re-send the one webmention you got again and again yourself
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bupkes cweiske Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately I don't know how to use curl right now. Will look into it.
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cweiske which OS are you using?
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bupkes on my desktop? One laptop with windows, one on ubuntu
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KartikPrabhu bupkes: did anythig go wrong with the one i sent?
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KartikPrabhu i am up (unfortunately) and can help since I am working on mention parsing for my site too
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Loqi [mention] http://bupk.es linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
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bupkes kartik yes i din't get it. but i've changed my settings now, could you try again if you get a moment?
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bupkes kartik: I'm using sempress on WP with some plugins so this should all work fairly smoothly. I think I just need to check the correct boxes
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bupkes Aha just webmentioned myself and that worked, so that's promising.
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bupkes kartik: must be pretty late over there...
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KartikPrabhu its 0316 but see this: http://tapastic.com/episode/35430
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KartikPrabhu :P
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KartikPrabhu bupkes: are you only receiving through your form?
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bupkes kartik: no I don't think so
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KartikPrabhu I just resent it!
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KartikPrabhu wait lemme try your form
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KartikPrabhu it worked through your form. I got "WebMention received... Thanks :)"
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bupkes got it!
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bupkes kartik: thanks.
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KartikPrabhu i wonder why it didn't work through my sender...
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bupkes I think I had a setting wrong. I think it should all work now. I've sent myself a couple (without using the form) and they've got through.
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glennjones bupkes I just sent you one from http://glennjones.net/notes/2014-04-16 hope it worked
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bupkes thanks, glenn - yes it worked. wonderful.
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cweiske bupkes, that black font with black shadow is strangely unreadable
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@mrmzholland @glennjones hey glenn just tried to send you a webmention but got "Sorry the service has stop work :({}" (twitter.com/_/status/456350747987169280)
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bupkes cweiske yes i know, only just installed the theme and changed colours. changing it now...
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KartikPrabhu bupkes: agreed with cweiske about font
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bupkes re: font. Have change it now, hope it less eye-watering. Have just installed thee
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bupkes *theme*, and am hoping to change the css but am still learning html/css and don't want to change too much too soon for fear of breaking the whole thing
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KartikPrabhu responses update: much pleased with this: http://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog#responses
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KartikPrabhu critique welcome :)
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KartikPrabhu next stop - customise by response-type
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cweiske KartikPrabhu, pingback also uses http
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: I know! Hence linked to diff. types in footnote. Article was meant for the uninitiated :)
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KartikPrabhu but i'll consider an edit for more correct-ness
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cweiske even the footnote is wrong
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cweiske Webmention has the major advantage that it uses HTTP to all the talking
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cweiske trackback and pingback did that, too
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KartikPrabhu oh that is bad... will correct that
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cweiske heck, even stating that it's using POST is nothing new
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cweiske pingback also uses POST
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: thanks... will edit. should proof-read better.
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: also was just working on my response display at the moment :P
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cweiske pinback sends a XML document via POST, while webmention uses application/x-www-form-urlencoded as content type
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: I'll have to think how to be more correct while not over-whelming people with this technical (though imp.) point
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cweiske :)
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KartikPrabhu "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Einstein ;) lesson learnt
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: hopefully that is the only factual error! appreciate if you find more
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cweiske KartikPrabhu, "The blogs of old, withered (some even say, died1)
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cweiske starved by the silos. "
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cweiske there seems to be something missing in this sentence
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cweiske the arrows on the images are strange
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cweiske http://kartikprabhu.com/static/images/indieweb-love-blog/posse-backfeed.svg the backfeed arrow points from the blog to the silo
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cweiske which is strange
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cweiske or broken rendering in chrome
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: would appreciate a screenshot, looks correct in FF
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KartikPrabhu the arrows have given me trouble in the past
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cweiske http://fotos.cweiske.de/screenshots/2014-04-16%20kartikprabhu%20svg%20icons.png
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: nvm, chrome shows them backwards!
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KartikPrabhu boo!
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KartikPrabhu maybe arrows are not a standard part of svg?
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KartikPrabhu opera also shows them wrong! :|
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KartikPrabhu is quite annoyed by wrong arrows
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: thanks for pointing that out. Will have to hand-edit the svg
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@transmatapp WebMention reply 9 (twitter.com/_/status/456404936771657729)
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tantek I think this discussion of indieweb and mobile https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-04-15#t1397599743 would be useful to capture on the /mobile page (which looks quite minimal and I'm not sure for what purpose currently)
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gRegor` Handy single-serving site: http://smartquotesforsmartpeople.com/
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@amyndickerson @twittermedia buys @gnip to bring the data insights in house + easily available to advertisers #bigdata #ownyourdata http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304572204579503402564724312?mod=dist_smartbrief (twitter.com/_/status/456445663639638018)
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@schnarfed @mrmzholland looks good! you’ll also want the https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-semantic-linkbacks plugin (or the http://t.co/EVVSu5Zq55… (https://snarfed.org/2014-04-16_twitter-mrmzholland-if-any-indieweb-indiewebcamp) (twitter.com/_/status/456447446046887936)
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@schnarfed @mrmzholland i also saw the https://www.brid.gy/ Unsupported URL errors from your site’s 404s. ping me if i can… (https://snarfed.org/2014-04-16_twitter-mrmzholland-if-any-indieweb-indiewebcamp-2) (twitter.com/_/status/456450616068284416)
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kylewm aaronpk: do your "View on Instagram" links leave off rel=syndication on purpose?
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kylewm I was working on posse-post-discovery, noticed that I can find your twitter/facebook links but not instagrams
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kylewm hmm, mf2py should still be picking up on u-syndication though...
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kylewm oops yeah ... still curious about rel-syndication but i am finding the IG links now
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aaronpk kylewm: I don't think that wass intentional
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aaronpk although yeah u-syndication should find it
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aaronpk is there a good reason to use both?
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kylewm aaronpk: no good reason to use both from my pov. i wasn't handling u-syndication correctly, so it picked up your rel-syndication links on twitter/fb but not instagram because it didn't have them
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kylewm but that was good bc i found the bug in u-syndication :)
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aaronpk ah cool
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aaronpk that was cause of a change in how i'm generating those links, switching from silo-specific handling to generic syndication handling
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kylewm KevinMarks2: you were right, it was exactly the html5lib handling of the html tag ... my memory wasn't working so great last night apparently!
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kylewm.com edited /posse-post-discovery (+436) "/* Discover POSSE copies via rel-syndication */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu more progress made last night on response display: http://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog#responses suggestions welcome!
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: nice work, looks great!
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kbs layout looks nice - I like it :)
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snarfed maybe consider linking to the responses themselves too?
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kbs ^^ :-) took the words out of my mouth...
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kbs Layout looks nice
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kbs and [maybe it's just me] a comment/response is more interesting to read than a like/retweet. So if the "more interesting responses" were more prominent, it'd be even easier for me to scan the responses
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: kbs: thanks... yeah all of those are on my mind :)
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KartikPrabhu the problem is i don't know a good way to separate them out.
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kbs has found the readability trick to be a reasonable heuristic in the absense of other info
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: you've seen how p3k and idno (and fb and twitter) handle likes/reshares vs comments, right?
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snarfed could be inspiration
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KartikPrabhu I have seen the facepile... but the trouble is that some reposts have nice text like Kyle's but others are just retweets
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bret interesting back story to liking/retweeting http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/generation-like/
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bret say good bye to an hour
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: yeah, understood. you could see whether there's text or not, and if so, treat it like a comment
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: if a repost has additional text, then it's really more like a comment and can be rendered as such?
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snarfed (great minds)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: but bridgy mentions also have text. I'll have to use some criteria of 'good text'
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snarfed true!
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snarfed no shame in special casing bridgy. it is kind of a special case
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KartikPrabhu but yes... that is an issue that is next on the list
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KartikPrabhu but first maybe i'll test the twitter tz fix :P
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snarfed yay!
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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kbs :-) (fwiw - https://github.com/Kerrick/readability-js/blob/develop/readability.js#L806 - quick way to score arbitrary text for 'interestingness'
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kbs basically remove all links and markup, count commas and word count)
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snarfed kbs: i like it
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snarfed comma density implies complexity of writing? interesting. makes sense
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aaronpk ...he says, adding no commas of his own.
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snarfed heh. i'm kinda simple :P
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bret lol
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kbs :-) the arc90 stuff probably works best for long articles - but some of the heuristics [especially the quick/dirty ones, like removing all links before scoring] might be interesting
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@mrmzholland @glennjones Got a fail trying to send a webmention from http://bupk.es/2014/04/16/50/ via your form... (twitter.com/_/status/456506696743936000)
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KartikPrabhu kbs: thanks will look into it :)
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gRegor` Hey KartikPrabhu, nice work on the responses format
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KartikPrabhu thanks! :)
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gRegor` One small suggestion: not as many lines. I'm a fan of a single line separating responses. If there's two, though, I think the bottom one should encapsulate the date.
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gRegor` Purely aesthetic :)
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kbs bret: nice PBS link, thanks
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: I have been thinking that my design in general is a little 'liney'
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gRegor` Related: I was working on my mentions stream last night and styling my <hr /> separators. Found this nice cheatsheet: http://css-tricks.com/examples/hrs/ I'm planning to use the second one.
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gRegor` Whoa
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gRegor` Well, something is up with css-tricks looks like
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gRegor` "Block reason: Access from your Country was disabled by the administrator." D'oh
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KartikPrabhu someone told Chris on Twitter already so he should be on it
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bret kbs :)
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gRegor` Anyway, it was a cool fade in from left, then fade out to right, using CSS linear gradients.
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KartikPrabhu yeah i have seen those
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Loqi [mention] http://dougmckown.com/2014/04/16/why-im-quitting-facebook/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://dougmckown.com/2014/04/16/why-im-quitting-facebook/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/why (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://dougmckown.com/2014/04/16/why-im-quitting-facebook/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://dougmckown.com/2014/04/16/why-im-quitting-facebook/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/why (pingback)
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tantek whoa another silo quit!
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KartikPrabhu badoom-tsssh
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KartikPrabhu tantek: no need to worry... Twitter is well on its way to becoming the next BF
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KartikPrabhu s/BF/FB
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: tantek: no need to worry... Twitter is well on its way to becoming the next FB
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tantek haha so true
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Loqi hehe
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tantek their new profiles are very FB profile like
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tantek e.g. here's one of a friend (who works at Twitter) https://twitter.com/themattharris
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KevinMarks and they are now sending notifications and putting unread counts on things
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KartikPrabhu yeah I dislike the new Twitter profiles too. FB-style clutter
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@dougmckown Why I’m Quitting Facebook #indieweb #privacy #minimalism http://dougmckown.com/2014/04/16/why-im-quitting-facebook/ (twitter.com/_/status/456529724798300162)
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KartikPrabhu also, why the hell do people want enormous header images?
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KevinMarks weird transition as you scroll up and his head vanishes
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KevinMarks people don't brands do
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KartikPrabhu I knew a lot of people who rejoiced when large headers were introduced first in G+ and the FB
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KartikPrabhu and their new "dynamic" type-hierarchy all messed up
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KartikPrabhu I almost think that these companies have to keep changing things even if they work, for fear of losing interest...
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tantek KartikPrabhu: it started with about.met - doing enormous header / profile images.
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tantek s/about.met/about.me
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Loqi tantek meant to say: KartikPrabhu: it started with about.me - doing enormous header / profile images.
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tantek FB copied them
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tantek and then Twitter copied FB
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KartikPrabhu tantek: you should've seen G+ header monstrosity before they shrunk it back down!
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tantek hahaha - well it goes without saying that G+ copies both FB and Twitter. ;)
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KevinMarks then there's the Medium look
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KartikPrabhu oh yeah Medium :|
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KartikPrabhu it is like Web2.0 shiny icons all over again
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KevinMarks I'm waiting for a new idiom
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KevinMarks something vectory that builds on SVG
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KartikPrabhu people should use svg more... though it is sort of a pain to create properly
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tantek KevinMarks a new idiom?
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tantek like a nidiom?
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KartikPrabhu what's a nidiom?
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KevinMarks a new design idiom - I think the cards/ columns thing is not quite there
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tantek or a nudiom?
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tantek They're a portmanteaus of your expression ;)
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tantek "new idiom"
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tantek also both words are available as a .com domain name as of seconds ago in case you or someone is tempted ;)
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KartikPrabhu nudiom sounds good :P
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tantek also sounds racy :P
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snarfed thinks nudiom sounds like a naked physicist
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snarfed heh great minds
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KartikPrabhu oh! lol
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KartikPrabhu btw that'll be "nudium" *um* not *om*
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snarfed well that's more like a chemist
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tantek how is nudium not taken. hilarious
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tantek as a parody of medium
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KevinMarks medium look but only nude background images?
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tantek medium for the 18+
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KartikPrabhu with giant headers or nude physicists!
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KartikPrabhu s/or/of
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: with giant headers of nude physicists!
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KevinMarks like Game of Thrones
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KevinMarks "we haven't had a naked woman this episode yet" " lets randomly have one on a table at the wedding"
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tantek directs KevinMarks to #indiechat ;)
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rascul at least most of game of thrones nudity is direct from the books
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tantek (yes it's a thing we came up with to direct off-topic tangents)
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snarfed "if it came from a book, it must be legit"
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tantek hence people write & publish books
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KartikPrabhu to get back on topic then... 'cards' are being over-done too
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KartikPrabhu though I quite like aaronpk's card look on his site
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tantek KartikPrabhu: feel free to add your criticisms or brainstorms about cards here: http://indiewebcamp.com/cards :D
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tantek or other examples thereof
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tantek I don't know of any indieweb examples
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tantek if you think aaronpk is actually publishing "cards" or card-like things - add them with URLs and screenshots to /cards
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KartikPrabhu tantek: here 'cards' seems to mean somethign diff. I thought of cards a the particular visual look that Google Now has
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tantek not at all - Google Now is an example on that page!!!
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KartikPrabhu so aaronpk's site "looks" cardy
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aaronpk what are these cards you speak of?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I think you'll have to take a screenshot and diagram what you mean about aaronpk's site.
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tantek hard to convey / understand in txt!
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: good question!
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes looking for good examples
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: do you mean this? http://aaron.pk/a4Pu1
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KartikPrabhu i mean you're homepage... looks like you have 'cards' of all your posts
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KartikPrabhu s/you're/your
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: i mean your homepage... looks like you have 'cards' of all your posts
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snarfed yeah, sounds like KartikPrabhu just means the visual look of individual pieces of content inside rect borders, often with rounded corners, against a different colored/patterned background
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yeah! but is there some other sense?
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snarfed yeah, card has become a common design term for a piece of content that can be embedded in different places
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snarfed fb and twitter embeds, google now cards, etc
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gRegor` e.g. Twitter cards.
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KartikPrabhu oh! so some syndicated summary?
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snarfed or even the full content, since long form is generally the exception
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KartikPrabhu so card == syndication ?
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KartikPrabhu or embeddable syndication?
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snarfed not necessarily. more just a self-contained rendering of an atom of content that may show up in the original place or somewhere else
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snarfed (e.g. google now cards aren't syndicated, at least not outside google)
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KartikPrabhu hmmm... seems very vague
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gRegor` For Twitter...
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gRegor` "cards" are when they embed content from external sites.
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aaronpk i think a key component is also that they look consistent anywhere they're embedded
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snarfed right
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aaronpk at least with twitter that's true
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gRegor` And you can make your content support Twitter's cards. That's apparently why Instagram photos stopped auto-embedding.
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gRegor` Don't ask me anything technical
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gRegor` haven't looked into Twitter's "card" spec
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gRegor` :)
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KartikPrabhu is wondering if the 'cards' thing can be used a UI for some indie stuff. reply-contexts?
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snarfed totally!
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ben_thatmustbeme oh yes, I was planning to try it.
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gRegor` I'm not sure I like the usage of the term "cards" the way Twitter does. but I guess it works
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ben_thatmustbeme but my planning list is getting longer and longer
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gRegor` Guess it's less jargon-y than "embed"?
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: welcome to the club!
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gRegor` "indiewebcamp: you won't get bored!"
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gRegor` Or "stay awhile... stay forever!" a la Impossible Mission (Not Mission Impossible)
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gRegor` dates self
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KartikPrabhu "you can checkout anytime you like.. but you can never leave" ....
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KartikPrabhu dates self too
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gRegor` Hehe
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@ShaneHudson RT @dougmckown: Why I’m Quitting Facebook #indieweb #privacy #minimalism http://dougmckown.com/2014/04/16/why-im-quitting-facebook/ (twitter.com/_/status/456537957071986688)
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ben_thatmustbeme stamps 1983_12_16 on his arm
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kbs needs radiocarbon to accurately date himself
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ben_thatmustbeme goes to a restaurant and sits in two chairs at a small table with a candle
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ben_thatmustbeme moves over to #indiechat for this kind of sillyness
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KevinMarks cards have a natural affiity for responsive layouts
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KartikPrabhu how?
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ben_thatmustbeme the cards just resort themselves as you resize
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KevinMarks because they can be laid out in columns or grids
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KevinMarks the pinterest/ g+ look
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KartikPrabhu but that can be done with anything...
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KartikPrabhu that is why I am confused. I think of cards more like a visual style than an actual thing...
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KartikPrabhu of instance how is a 'card' different than an marked-up hentry?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: the term is used for both the design pattern and the visual look
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snarfed not ideal, but ah well
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: I don't understand what the design pattern is?
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snarfed it's what i described before, and you thought was "vague" :P
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snarfed (which is kinda fair)
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KartikPrabhu haha... I mean is 'card' diff. from marked-up HTML?
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gRegor` Er, isn't "design pattern and visual look" the same? :)
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snarfed well yeah, since neither the design pattern nor the visual look is web-specific
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snarfed gRegor`: UX design, not visual design
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gRegor` Ah
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snarfed kartif you're
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snarfed er...
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gRegor` Take two
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: if you're still interested, googling 'card design pattern' has good results
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kbs oh, you had me pretty confused as well :) [me immediately associates 'design patterns' with something else altogether]
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: but in any context 'card' just seems to mean 'a bundle of data' which is basically everything in that context
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ben_thatmustbeme confusion over graphics design vs software design?
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: same with the Google links
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KartikPrabhu to clarify: does someone have an example of 'not a card' ?
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kbs ben_thatmustbeme: yep [speaking for my confusion anyway, but now think I'm up to speed]
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: yes. you're right, it's a broad pattern. maybe one key point is that it's usually an atom of data, not a collection
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aaronpk is someone adding this to /card?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: sure. it wouldn't make sense to use cards on https://snarfed.org/archive, either for the whole thing or each individual link
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snarfed aaronpk: not yet :P
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kbs I think one paragraph within in an article would not be 'a card'
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snarfed yup, that's another good example
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kbs however, possibly a summary/abstract of an article might qualify as 'a card'
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: why? each h-entry is a card no?
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snarfed cards are good for atomic, short form units of content like fb posts, tweets, now cards
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aaronpk also cards are not usually presented in a list
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: Google Now
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snarfed collection yes, but list not so much
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KartikPrabhu is confused about this diff.
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snarfed (list usually implies a simpler, e.g. single text line representation)
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aaronpk i thought you normally see google now cards one at a time
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aaronpk is not an android user tho
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snarfed aaronpk: no
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snarfed the app shows multiple
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aaronpk huh ok
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KevinMarks and you get stacks of them
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aaronpk must be thinking of Glass :)
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KartikPrabhu stacks of cards! yeah
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snarfed should probably stop trying to explain this since he's not a UX designer
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KartikPrabhu isn't either
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KartikPrabhu not even close
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tantek tries to catchup and sees a wall of text - hmm - no capturing discussion to wiki to summarize?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: Mostly I am confused about what a 'card' is, apart from just a 'bundle of data'
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tantek KartikPrabhu: discussing such things in the abstract (i.e. wall of text) is nearly useless
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tantek Upload real examples of cards to discuss, embed them on the /cards page, and then we can discuss details of *real* examples instead.
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KartikPrabhu true! so here is a concrete question: What is an example of something that is not a 'card'?
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tantek haha - so not a concrete question!
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tantek there's nothing real there - that question is 100% conceptual.
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KartikPrabhu lol... if everything is a card then I can upload a lot of examples to /card
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gRegor` Not a discrete answer, either.
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gRegor` "XML is not a card"
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gRegor` There ya go. ;)
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tantek gRegor`: not an indiscrete answer but rather a meta-answer, questioning the question itself ;)
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gRegor` Didn't mean you, tantek. Just the "what is not X?" question
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gRegor` I do get his confusion, though
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tantek KartikPrabhu: if you don't have a specific real world example of something you think is a card, then there's not much point in discussion.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: that is what I am trying to understand. What do people mean by cards? since there is a page /card people must have some notion
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tantek gRegor`: the method being applied here is pragmatic socratic method, whereby a question is met with counter-questions requesting real-world connections/relations/examples.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: that page has both a definition and specific examples.
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aaronparecki.com moved /cards to /card "singular"
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aaronpk does that clear things up?
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tantek :)
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gRegor` No, I get you, tantek. :)
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tantek gRegor`: :)
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gRegor` I was just saying there's no real good answer to "What is not X?"
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KartikPrabhu Should I add http://kartikprabhu.com/archive/year=2013 to cards then?
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gregorlove.com edited /card (+1) "singularize" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu since they are "small information summaries, often summaries of specific web pages. "
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gregorlove.com edited /card (+0) "sans bold A" (view diff)
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gRegor` I think "external I think "specific, *external* sites" might be helpful there.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: if you can explain how http://kartikprabhu.com/archive/year=2013 are "cards" as defined and like the other examples, then yes, do so, and explain why.
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tantek gRegor`: yes
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gRegor` Wow, nice sentence, gRegor
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gRegor` Glad it made some sense
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KartikPrabhu hmm so 'external' is a criteria... ok makes a little more sense
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gregorlove.com edited /card (+10) "external" (view diff)
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tantek gRegor`: I applied automatic error correction and dropped the apparently duplicate prefix
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gRegor` Benefit of being around nerds :)
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gregorlove.com edited /card (+1) (view diff)
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gRegor` How is the page now?
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KartikPrabhu adding 'external' makes the definition much more specific
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KartikPrabhu maybe i was being pedantic here
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gRegor` I don't think so. It led to changes. :)
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KartikPrabhu adding 'external' does rule out my archive page for instance :P
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gRegor` Any indieweb people have a tweet with a youtube link in it recently?
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gRegor` Going to add to /Twitter Cards as an example
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aaronpk gRegor`: http://aaron.pk/n4UU1
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gRegor` Thanks
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KartikPrabhu https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/446879447702990848
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@kartik_prabhu Lucky Ali is such a #soulful singer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du1hqvhyxX0&feature=youtu.be (http://kartikprabhu.com/notes/lucky-ali-soulful) (twitter.com/_/status/446879447702990848)
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gRegor` Will add both
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KartikPrabhu unfortunately I don't have 'cards' in my original note post :P
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gRegor` Thats fine
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gRegor` adding specifically to Twitter Cards page
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gregorlove.com edited /Twitter_Cards (+138) "/* See Also */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu maybe that is a good example to capture... compare original note post with out embedded youttube 'card' with the twitter one
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gregorlove.com edited /Twitter_Cards (-4) "/* Examples */" (view diff)
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kbs KartikPrabhu: hm, for me anyway
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kbs I think of cards as more about 'summary' rather than about 'external'. Example [from earlier] -- "full paper" == not-a-card
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kbs "abstract of paper" == card
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kbs etc.
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tantek Cards is one of those things like annotations. Once you start thinking of things as "cards" you start to think of nearly everything as a "card". (specific context: may make more sense to folks like hober and kevinmarks who were at the W3C Web Annotations Workshop a couple of weeks ago - see #ianno14 for some leftovers)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I think we discussed annotation before and yes that was my confusion with cards too
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KartikPrabhu kbs: by your definition than my archive page with summaries of articles would qualify.... interesting
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tantek KartikPrabhu: if you discuss some new concept X and start to think that everything is X, then you may be lost yes.
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KartikPrabhu which is why my pedantic question "what is not X?"
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tantek Same problem happened with Google Web Intents. The proponents of Google Web Intents saw everything as an "intent", which pretty much doomed it.
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aaronpk tantek: does that pattern have a name? that's fascinating
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kbs KartikPrabhu: sure - I think each summary would probably work as a card [for me anyway] but I wouldn't call the entire list of summaries as "a card"
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KartikPrabhu though I am pretty much on board with cards = external embedded content like reply-contexts and auto-embedded youtube videos
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tantek aaronpk - not sure. it is definitely a linguistic/psychological phenomenon that I've seen repeatedly over the years (web intents, annotations, and cards are just the latest specific examples)
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gregorlove.com edited /Twitter_Cards (+37) "/* Examples */" (view diff)
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tantek let me see if I can ask
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aaronpk it's like the opposite of this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_instrument
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gregorlove.com uploaded /File:Twitter-Card-example1.jpg "From https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/431712331555287042"
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tantek aaronpk - another example, RDF/Semweb people see everything as "triples"
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tantek the closest term I have is metavirus
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tantek it's a particularly infectious kind of meme that is a metameme that rewrites your notions of previous ideas (memes) in terms of itself.
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gregorlove.com edited /Twitter_Cards (+154) "/* Examples */" (view diff)
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aaronpk maybe it is kinda the golden hammer
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gRegor` Used http://snag.gy to crop that screen capture. Worked well.
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aaronpk "a golden hammer is an over-reliance on a familiar tool"
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tantek it's not the opposite of that, but relatd
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tantek it's like a kind of nail, that when you see it, all other nails look like that nail.
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tantek s/when/once
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Loqi tantek meant to say: it's like a kind of nail, that once you see it, all other nails look like that nail.
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KartikPrabhu 'pretty nail effect'? :P
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aaronpk haha!
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tantek seeing something pretty doesn't make everything else look pretty
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tantek there's something more subtle going on
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gregorlove.com edited /Twitter_Cards (+34) "/* Examples */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com uploaded /File:Twitter-Card-example2.jpg "From https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/446879447702990848"
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tantek also - we could just hotlink to Twitter's own Card Example images right?
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gregorlove.com edited /Twitter_Cards (+12) "/* Examples */ downsizing a bit." (view diff)
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@Zio_Excel RT @dougmckown: Why I’m Quitting Facebook #indieweb #privacy #minimalism http://dougmckown.com/2014/04/16/why-im-quitting-facebook/ (twitter.com/_/status/456552441543008258)
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gRegor` I have, but figured it'd be worth capturing how they look at this point in time.
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gregorlove.com edited /Twitter_Cards (+104) "/* Examples */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks there is the phenomenon that when you get, say, a poodle, you see poodles everyehere
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KevinMarks because now you're looking for them
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: Do your notes not receive webmentions?
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KevinMarks Observational Selection Bias
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KartikPrabhu gRegor`: no... not yet
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gRegor` K
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gRegor` I tried to manually send you one from the Twitter Cards page and it failed. :)
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tantek.com edited /silo-quits (+573) "Doug McKown - FB and a few others" (view diff)
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KevinMarks http://io9.com/5974468/the-most-common-cognitive-biases-that-prevent-you-from-being-rational
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: yeah I was planning to get the webmentions working on articles correctly and then add them to notes too
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gRegor` Makes sense
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gRegor` Well, you're wiki famous now
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KartikPrabhu w00t! will cross off 'wiki famous' off my bucket list
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Loqi yay!
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tantek.com edited /like (+132) "add Frontline show URL from bret" (view diff)
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gRegor` Should /post just be a redirect to /posts and the information merged? Not sure how useful the distiction is on separate pages.
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gRegor` s/distiction/distinction/
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Loqi gRegor` meant to say: Should /post just be a redirect to /posts and the information merged? Not sure how useful the distinction is on separate pages.
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@wraithgar @erinanacker @RealtimeConf This seems to attempt to answer that question http://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/456562258236030976)
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Loqi [mention] http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4VbNdt/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-04-16/line/1397684984 (webmention)
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@obensource RT @wraithgar: @erinanacker @RealtimeConf This seems to attempt to answer that question http://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/456562790673559554)
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@robcolbert @SEEVed this is precisely why I am building Pulsar. #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/456575713722646529)
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KartikPrabhu does anyone use http://annotatorjs.org/ ?
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KartikPrabhu seems like another silo, would be interesting to see how they do federated annotations
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pdurbin ah, from https://okfn.org . nice
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: I've always wanted a service like that that would let me suggest grammatical corrections
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kylewm if enough visitors suggest it's -> its, then it automatically notifies the author...something like that
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KartikPrabhu yeah... this can surely be done with mentions and micropub
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KartikPrabhu specially since webmentions has already solved the federated comment thing
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kylewm huh, that's an interesting idea. indieweb replies to a particular word/phrase/sentence a la medium.com
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kylewm or like you can reply to a line of the irc log
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: yeah. though I don't know how to mention a particular fragment in a post
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@SEEVed RT @robcolbert: @SEEVed this is precisely why I am building Pulsar. #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/456582779036123137)