#indiewebcamp 2014-04-20

2014-04-20 UTC
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KartikPrabhu !tell snarfed: how can I access older responses? you know more than what is shown in "Recent Responses"?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: Can I access the bridgy url for your Facebook repost of my article? I accidently erased all records of bridgy urls by replacing them with orginal ones
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Loqi [mention] http://caseorganic.com/articles/2014/03/27/1/harvard-s-berkman-center-for-internet-and-society-to-host-indiewebcamp-oct-11-12-2014 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://caseorganic.com/articles/2014/03/27/1/harvard-s-berkman-center-for-internet-and-society-to-host-indiewebcamp-oct-11-12-2014 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://caseorganic.com/articles/2014/03/27/1/harvard-s-berkman-center-for-internet-and-society-to-host-indiewebcamp-oct-11-12-2014 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://caseorganic.com/articles/2014/03/27/1/harvard-s-berkman-center-for-internet-and-society-to-host-indiewebcamp-oct-11-12-2014 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi snarfed: KartikPrabhu left you a message 4 hours, 25 minutes ago: I ran the unit tests on activity streams and there seem to be a few FAILS in the instagramm portion which I have not touched at all! The Twitter tz tests all go through!
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Loqi snarfed: KartikPrabhu left you a message 1 hour, 28 minutes ago: how can I access older responses? you know more than what is shown in "Recent Responses"?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: thanks for running the tests. great that the twitter ones passed? mind sending me the instagram failures?
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snarfed re older responses, there's no way right now, but i'd accept a PR for that :P, and i can send you any specific ones you need
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GWG Evening
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@ArthurSmid RT @hertling: IndieWeb is hugely important, but I hope we can include more than just programming technorati in the movement. http://t.co/hz… (twitter.com/_/status/457733956155084800)
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@deurell <3 http://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/457824464861147136)
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rascul my web site design moves slightly closer to the finished state but still i have much to do http://crash.rascul.io
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rascul also, indieauth i have discovered is kinda nifty
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aaronpk rascul: cool!
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: the instagramm tests give "AssertionError: [published] '2012-10-06T22:45:57' != '2012-10-07T00:45:57'"
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snarfed ahh. interesting! looks like the time zone changes might have affected them too
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snarfed let me look
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KartikPrabhu also re older responses: I'd like to keep a record of where the mentions came from but I accidently replaced the bridgy urls with u-urls from the mention. I just wanted to get the bridgy urls back
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snarfed got it
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snarfed do you know how many?
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GWG is lurking and intrigued
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snarfed ohh interesting. re the instagram failures, it's probably because the tests (wrongly) assume PST
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snarfed that's on me to fix. mind filing a bug?
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KartikPrabhu oh huh! Alright I'll do that and send a PR for the twitter tzs
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KartikPrabhu re: older response for the http://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog posts if possible
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snarfed actually the twitter tz PR looks fine as is. i'm excited to get it in!
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KartikPrabhu aah yes I forgot I already pushed that
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snarfed one last thing to ask you to do for the twitter PR: squash the commits, ie combine them into a single one
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snarfed i think all you have to do is:
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snarfed git rebase -i master
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snarfed (it will open something in your editor)
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snarfed change all the 'pick' words after the first one to 'squash'
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snarfed save and close the editor
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snarfed then git push -f
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snarfed more details: http://eli.thegreenplace.net/2014/02/19/squashing-github-pull-requests-into-a-single-commit/
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snarfed http://blog.steveklabnik.com/posts/2012-11-08-how-to-squash-commits-in-a-github-pull-request
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snarfed (sorry for yet another hoop to jump through)
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KartikPrabhu eh! turn out I only have one commit locally :P
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KartikPrabhu lets see if I can do something on Github
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snarfed really? huh. did you create a new branch since the first PR?
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snarfed or were you squashing or something locally?
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snarfed try git push -f to rewrite history with your local commit
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KartikPrabhu nope. I didn't have a local copy remember
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snarfed ahhhh right. you can still rebase against my repo then, i think
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snarfed looking for details
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snarfed try git rebase -i upstream
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snarfed (also, i've temporarily bumped bridgy user pages to show up to 100 responses. see if that gives you enough?)
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KartikPrabhu I only see 15 responses
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snarfed that might be all there are for that account then
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snarfed check your other accounts?
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KartikPrabhu yeah google+ does have 100 but twitter only has 15
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snarfed ok. should twitter have more?
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KartikPrabhu no... that seems right... cool! That should go long way in tracking down the urls
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snarfed great!
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snarfed let me know when you're done, so i can drop it back down to 10 or 20
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KartikPrabhu also seems I don't have any upstream set! Isn't this supposed to happen automatically on cloning?
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snarfed i would have guessed, yes
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snarfed easy to add though: git remote add upstream https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial.git
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snarfed i also pushed changes recently, so you'll want to fetch and merge them first: git fetch upstream
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snarfed git rebase upstream/master
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snarfed git push
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KartikPrabhu you mean git pull for the last one right?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: sorry, back
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snarfed nah, i meant git push for pushing the rebased changes to your fork
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KartikPrabhu aah yes
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KartikPrabhu ok did that work!?
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snarfed somewhat!
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snarfed the PR now has my changes too :P
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snarfed ah git. so confusing
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KartikPrabhu yes :)
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snarfed you have the upstream now, maybe try squashing?
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snarfed same instructions i posted above, just use git rebase -i upstream
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KartikPrabhu it still says "invalid upstream upstream"!
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bret uh oh just got the new twitter profile offer. Looks just like a facebook profile XD
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KartikPrabhu yup it does...
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bret what a bummer
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KevinMarks Well, more like a g+ profile
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kylewm bret: could you opt out?
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bret not for long
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KartikPrabhu I think all these guys Twitter/FB/G+ will merge into one big silo-blob
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KartikPrabhu everyone will look like everyone esle
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I have a question that reminds me of.
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GWG What is the proper styling for a syndication URL?
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kylewm snarfed: woo, review time, awesome! tiny clarification q: "nit: please move this up top." does that mean move the import before the docstring?
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KartikPrabhu GWG: styling? as in display?
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GWG Yes
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GWG Is there a symbol?
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GWG That people would recognize?
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GWG Or a phrasing?
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kylewm GWG: I use the fontawesome symbols for the given silo
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GWG Yes. But above it, what do you say?
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snarfed kylewm: top of the file, with the other imports. (i tend not to use localized imports)
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GWG Syndicated URLs?
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GWG Reposted?
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snarfed and sorry there are so many nits!
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KartikPrabhu GWG: "Shared" ?
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kylewm snarfed: oh, can't bc it's a circular import :( good argument for moving the whole function to a separate module?
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KartikPrabhu GWG: Yeah I'd do "Shared on" Twitter, FB etc...
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snarfed kylewm: so far at a high level, it looks great. thanks for discussing it with me first, that helps a ton. my only big request so far is probably to consider putting it in its own file. i'm happy to do that in a later PR, though, as well as any other big stuff
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snarfed kylewm: ohhh, since util imports models? ugh, ok. yeah
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snarfed alternatively for now just comment why it's a local import
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GWG I'm mocking it up now in my theme.
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GWG Then at some point, I need to write a plugin to extract it from the posting plugin and put it in the metadata in the right place
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GWG Then someone using another plugin could do the same
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KartikPrabhu GWG: cool!
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snarfed kylewm: oh wow, next()! didn't know that one. learn something new every day
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kylewm and re: nits, not at all, thanks so much for the support and helpful comments (especially cause this issue isn't a bee in your particular bonnet)
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I'm trying to design it right...best on best practices
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GWG And I'm a horrible designer and a lousy programmer
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GWG http://tiny.n9n.us/
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GWG I think it is shaping up though
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KartikPrabhu GWG: hey! don't look at me! I'm neither a designer nor a programmer ;)
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GWG KartikPrabhu: What do you do for a living?
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KartikPrabhu I'm a physics grad student :D
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KartikPrabhu so basically nothing ;P
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GWG My father taught physics for my entire life.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: the theme looks pretty neat!
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snarfed kylewm: interesting that you fetch each h-entry separately. are you thinking syndication urls might not be in the feed?
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KartikPrabhu GWG: since you are using Genericons you might want to to try http://genericons.com/#share this one for syndication urls
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KartikPrabhu though I have no idea how standard it is.
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KevinMarks My father taught physics too
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KartikPrabhu man! so much physics :P
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snarfed KartikPrabhu, GWG: this is also pretty common. http://genericons.com/#external
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kylewm snarfed: ah, unfortunately yes .. they aren't usually on the feed (e.g., aaron, tantek, barnaby)
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snarfed kylewm: got it
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: I did look at that... but I associate with "open in new tab" or something
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snarfed fair
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KartikPrabhu choosing icons is pretty hard
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GWG Both good
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GWG KevinMarks: University level?
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snarfed kylewm: nice use of list comprehensions, we have similar styles
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KevinMarks There's the android share icon: https://www.iconfinder.com/icons/198108/share_icon
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snarfed KevinMarks++
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: that is definitely better. I use entypo on my site and it has one like that
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Loqi KevinMarks has 19 karma
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KevinMarks Yes, he taught at Polytechnic of North London and the Open University
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rascul icons are meh
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rascul upgrade at fontello.com :)
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snarfed kylewm: grr, so frustrating that app engine only gives us 1M of memcache for free. 1G dedicated would cost ~$1.50/day, but i'm almost tempted to, it'd be so valuable
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KartikPrabhu rascul: of course I mean icon-fonts and not images ;)
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GWG KevinMarks: Not sure I want to install another icon pack. I wonder if Genericons would add it.
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GWG KevinMarks: My father has a degree in medical biology, but for some reason taught high school physics
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KartikPrabhu GWG: yes always a good idea to stick to one icon font collection
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KevinMarks Or use an SVG file, it'd be small
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GWG KartikPrabhu: Using Twitter Bootstrap gets me glyphicons, I think. But I could recompile to remove unneeded features before final distribution
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GWG Feedback sent
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rascul i prefer font awesome instead of glyphicons
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rascul fontello can use font awesome things
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KevinMarks There's probably a case for using different icons on iOS, android and desktop
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rascul if you want them to match the theme of other stuff
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GWG KevinMarks, rascul: I agree. But I'll save that for Version 2.0.
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GWG That seems like a 2.0 thing
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rascul i'm working on version 0.1
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rascul i think i like a card type thing http://crash.rascul.io/cards.html
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GWG rascul: What is your background?
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rascul which one?
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GWG Tech wise
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rascul oh
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rascul i did a bunch of network and security stuff in the army for 6 years or so
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snarfed kylewm: the other big thing i'd like to check is that in the common case, this should ideally add either zero or one http fetches to original post discovery
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KevinMarks That looks a bit like http://pageaspreview.herokuapp.com/
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rascul but i've been tinkering and hacking on things since i could walk
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rascul maybe before
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snarfed (the two common cases are 1) domain_url that fails fetch or has no mf2, and 2) we already have a matching SyndicatedPost)
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snarfed i think that's mostly true but good to audit and have unit tests for
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snarfed back in a bit
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GWG rascul: Very interesting
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rascul oh us army i should specify
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rascul because there's more than one army in the world i guess
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GWG rascul: Where are you based?
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rascul pennsylvania
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kylewm snarfed: ok that makes sense, the second unit test is intended to check that we don't re-fetch anything when a post has previously been discovered. i'll add more to verify the behavior when domain-url is known to be "invalid" for various reasons
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kylewm rascul: you are using crotal right? i did a little survey of python ssg's a while back, that wasn't on my radar. is it new?
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rascul i am using it now
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rascul not sure how new it is
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kylewm like it?
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rascul yes
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rascul commits on github go back to april 2013
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rascul i tried a few others, i wasn't as comfortable with any others except jekyll
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rascul didn't really want to use jekyll because i didn't want to install ruby just for one thing
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kylewm ya understand
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kylewm it does seem similar to jekyll
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indie-visitor Hi, i have a question about web sign in via rel-me links. As it happens, in practice, through 3rd-party silos, it does not offer any privacy advantage over direct login using facebook accounts. The third party will anyway happily trace our surf habits,right?
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aaronpk the goal of web sign-in is more about owning the identity you're logging in as more than it is about privacy
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snarfed kylewm: thanks! have to run but i'll send more tonight
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aaronpk welcome, indie-visitor! set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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indie-visitor aww thanks Loqi
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Loqi you're welcome
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kbs heh
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GWG Loqi: Do you know Alan Turing?
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Loqi who, me?
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GWG Loqi: Are you a robot?
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j12t Or: Loqi: do you know Eliza?
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GWG j12t: Just curious what responses Loqi has programmed
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j12t Well, it may be a mechanical Turk
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kbs GWG: nice
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kbs template looks like it's making progress from the last time I remember. Since visual stuff (like cooking?) tends to run to personal preference, if you like what you're baking that's all that's needed maybe :)
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aaronpk whoa, flickr just changed the term "Set" to "Album"
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kbs I like just the tagging model, most everything else ends up becoming like hierarchies/containers which then becomes problematic to navigate
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GWG kbs: The one on http://tiny.n9n.us or the other one?
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kbs GWG: I was looking at http://tiny.n9n.us
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GWG kbs: This is my first drop shadow
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GWG I'm trying for simple
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kbs GWG: cool :-)
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GWG The header area needs work
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GWG I have an option for an image I tested, but disabled.
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GWG The categories and tags are mostly done
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kbs out of curiosity, do you have links to some sites whose designs you like?
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GWG Not sure if the little icons work.
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GWG kbs: I've been trolling the IRC people list
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GWG But, the point of this is a MF2 compliant theme for a 'blog' type site I can give out freely.
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GWG I don't like how I've done the date, so I may put it back in line with the tags/categories and style it
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kbs Oh, gotcha - less about design and more about the markup?
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GWG The pagination I haven't even touched
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GWG kbs: I have a version with no design and all the markup working
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GWG I've been building this on top of that
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kbs aah, sorry - missed that
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GWG kbs: I do care about the design
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GWG But I'm not necessarily up on what people find attractiv
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GWG Since I want to distribute this to Wordpress people wanting to go Indieweb, more people than just me should like the basic design.
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GWG Even if they hack it a bit
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GWG kbs: I've never built a theme from the bottom up
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GWG Even though I'm using pieces, a lot of decisions
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GWG I've only ever hacked Wordpress themes
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rascul i'm the only one that needs to like my design
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rascul screw everybody else!
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kbs that's the way to go :-)
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GWG rascul: I'm trying to create a Wordpress theme that is MF2 compliant to lower the bar for newbies in this community.
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rascul i personally like bars, especially the ones with cheap drinks
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GWG If it was just for me....then who cares what people think
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rascul yeah i understand though
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GWG rascul: I'm sure after I put in the work, someone will say they hate it
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rascul this is just a hobby for me i guess
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GWG rascul: But that is what pull requests are for, I guess
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rascul GWG buy me beer and i'll hate it for you :)
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GWG rascul: Me too. But I've always wanted an excuse to become better at CSS/responsive design, and Wordpress theming
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GWG So, even if people hate it, I learned stuff
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rascul hopefully these hating people will tell why they hate it
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GWG rascul: Hopefully they'll fix it for me. But if not, yes, hopefully I'll get good feedback
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GWG If you look, the single pages are still messed up
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rascul feedback that's the word i was trying to think of
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rascul oh your site seems to have a horizontal scrollbar for me for no apparent reason
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GWG rascul: Exactly. Needs more work
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GWG I like the social menu though
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GWG I overloaded the Wordpress Menu system
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rascul i don't like the big archives thing on the front page
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rascul i don't really care what you posted in march 2010, and if i do, i'm happy to click a link for an archives page
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GWG rascul: Neither do I
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GWG rascul: I needed a placeholder widget
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GWG Happy?
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GWG Changed it to another stock widget
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rascul i find many sites seem to put sidebars and menus and crap for no reason other than to take up space
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rascul categories is more useful
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GWG Eventually, something useful will be there
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GWG I also am thinking of hiding the sidebar on the single pages by default.
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GWG Then, there are questions as to whether I want to widgetize the footer and put info down there.
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GWG I'm probably overthinking this
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GWG Someone come to IndiewebcampNYC and figuratively slap me.
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kbs GWG: dunno about that
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kbs but if subjective opinions aren't totally useless :) I personally find simpler sites easier to read [eg: http://alistapart.com/blog] so any feedback I have would tend towards removing chrome, etc
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GWG kbs: You think the page is too busy?
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GWG I was trying for simple blog design
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rascul kbs eww the nav bar covers the heading!
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kbs GWG: well, a bit hesitant mostly because it tends to be personal preferences - but I myself probably would choose to use just whitespace and fewer type-size changes (or use color) to separate the hierarchies
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GWG I want to do that on the single page view actually.
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kbs I was ruined by this great book called 'elements of typographic style' by robert bringhurst
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kbs so much of what I've ended up liking has been what he suggests
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@gasull Why we need the indie web, why we need to be holders of our own data. https://indiewebcamp.com/why (twitter.com/_/status/457980537811255296)
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GWG Except for the headers, the typestyle should be the same
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GWG Not sure I like the typeface, but in that direction, madness may lie
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rascul GWG you seem to have no rel="me" links
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GWG rascul: I wouldn't.
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GWG They are on my 'real' site
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rascul ahh ok
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GWG This theme will be activated there once complete
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GWG All the content on this site is test data
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GWG Apparently the Android share icon is subject to takedown requests
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kbs shouldn't be - I think the android icons were released under a permissive license
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Loqi barnabywalters: caseorganic left you a message on 4/17 at 8:12pm: hello!
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KartikPrabhu http://practicaltypography.com/ is my go to for good typography
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GWG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_icon#ShareThis
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barnabywalters !tell caseorganic hello!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG Hello, barnabywalters
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barnabywalters good evening GWG, #indiewebcamp
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aaronpk hello barnabywalters!
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KartikPrabhu evening!
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GWG barnabywalters: I appreciated your tweet
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GWG barnabywalters: It made me move in a new direction
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barnabywalters GWG: oh, er, good! which one?
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barnabywalters ah, the reply?
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kbs GWG: oh, it's not google that's issuing the takedowns, misunderstood
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GWG I can understand why Genericons won't touch it
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barnabywalters so what interesting things have been happening here while I was gone
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barnabywalters I saw a mention in the logs about fragmentations…
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aaronpk I miss the "this week on the indieweb" posts
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aaronpk barnabywalters: it's "fragmentions" hehe
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aaronpk and they are teh awesome
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GWG barnabywalters: I threw all my work out the window and started over again
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barnabywalters aaronpk: ha ha okay
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GWG aaronpk: I have to reread that log to understand it better
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barnabywalters aaronpk: I skimmed the logs while half-asleep ;)
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barnabywalters if they are fragmentions then why does indiewebcamp.com/fragmentions not exist
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aaronpk fragmentions let you link to a paragraph
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention
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aaronparecki.com created /fragmentions (+24) "redirect plural" (view diff)
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barnabywalters ah you beat me to it
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aaronpk :)
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barnabywalters interesting
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GWG barnabywalters: You want to weigh in on my latest obsession?
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barnabywalters GWG: sure!
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GWG barnabywalters: http://tiny.n9n.us How's my markup this time?
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GWG I created a custom comment handler
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barnabywalters GWG: looking good! a few microformats markup suggestions:
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GWG barnabywalters: That's what I'm looking for. I intend to give the theme code away for anyone who wants it after.
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barnabywalters add an explicit p-name property for the h-feed — at the moment the “name” is just the text content of that element
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barnabywalters (see http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftiny.n9n.us%2F)
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barnabywalters the published datetimes should be ISO8601 datetimes (e.g. 2014-04-12T12:00:00+0000), at the moment they are human-readable dates
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GWG I think I broke that.
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GWG Could you explain the first commet?
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barnabywalters you’re already using the <time datetime=“”> attribute, so you just need to make the value of that attribute a valid ISO8601 datetime
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GWG It was. I must have changed it when I fixed the human readable output
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barnabywalters so, there are two ways to publish a feed with microformats2, as detailed on http://indiewebcamp.com/feed
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GWG barnabywalters: Oh, that feed
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barnabywalters either just have a bunch of h-entries, or have an h-feed with h-entries in
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barnabywalters one of the advantages of using h-feed is that you can name the feed
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GWG I'm used to RSS. Need to think differently
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barnabywalters (typically the same as the <title> element)
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barnabywalters but if you don’t name it, the name will just be the text content of the element
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barnabywalters GWG: in most cases there’s not even any reason to use h-feed
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barnabywalters it’s mainly personal preference
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barnabywalters only other thing I would recommend would be to make the author properties of the entries nested h-cards rather than just plaintext properties
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GWG I'll have to read up on that
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barnabywalters GWG: there’s a bunch of help here: http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-entry/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftiny.n9n.us%2F2012%2F01%2F07%2Ftemplate-sticky%2F
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barnabywalters actually I need to add checking for ISO8601 datetimes to indiewebify.me
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barnabywalters that’ll be tomorrow’s project
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barnabywalters it’s also a a good idea to use e-content instead of p-content — that way parsers can either get the plaintext value or the HTML value
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barnabywalters GWG: this is really valuable feedback for indiewebify.me and microformats educational materials, thanks!
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GWG barnabywalters: Thank you as well
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GWG I thought I did use e-content
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GWG Not p-content
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barnabywalters GWG: oops, yep you did! I’m still looking on the index page
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GWG barnabywalters: When I declare it done, and I ask you to check it, can I cite you as certifying my markup?
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barnabywalters my bad
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GWG I've only been at this a short time
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barnabywalters GWG: ha ha ha, “barnabywalters-certified” markup
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barnabywalters I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or not ;)
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barnabywalters I’d rather you added a link to an indiewebify.me test page
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barnabywalters that way people can verify themselves that the markup is good
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GWG I did use the indiewebify.me site
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GWG I think I broke the date after that
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GWG The date is fixed now
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barnabywalters GWG: looking good!
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barnabywalters complete with timezone
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GWG Wordpress...makes things easier
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GWG That and the fact I commented my code a lot
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kbs KartikPrabhu: - nice link about practicaltypography, also like your site design. Did you use the large left-margin idea from there? :-)
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Loqi caseorganic: barnabywalters left you a message 2 hours, 32 minutes ago: hello!
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