#indiewebcamp 2014-05-13

2014-05-13 UTC
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tantek meh they want a phone # to call
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tantek too many steps, I give up
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aaronpk it's worth it!
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tantek.com edited /Foursquare (+77) "/* Venue claiming */ asks for phone number" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Foursquare (+163) "add info about receiving the phone call" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: you guys making Chicago happen? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club
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KartikPrabhu it seems gregor` can't make it but I can join via IRC as usual
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tantek KartikPrabhu: did you ever get in touch with Mari and Andres?
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KartikPrabhu I did tweet at her, but no response...
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tantek they're based in Chicago, and Mari came out to the HWC a few weeks ago in SF and really like it
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tantek hmm
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tantek ok I'll ping her again
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gRegor` I probably won't make it this time. My girlfriend will be visiting from out of town.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: sure thing! given she worked at UChicago where I am based too... it should be good
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tantek gRegor`, KartikPrabhu if you guys are not hosting it - perhaps make a comment indicating as such on the event page?
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yup will do
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tantek just in case someone in Chicago randomly did show up to Intelligentsia
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tantek thanks!
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KartikPrabhu tantek: should I make a note or delete the event from the page?
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aaronpk ok change of plans, I actually can host at esripdx! I just have to make sure i'm out by 7:45
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@indieboxproject Linux Magazin: Indie Box soll Facebook, Google and Co. ersetzen (in German) http://www.linux-magazin.de/NEWS/Indie-Box-soll-Facebook-Google-und-Co.-ersetzen #indiebox #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/466012511553077249)
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+41) "/* URLs */ add portland calagator" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com created /Template:aaronpk (+39) "giving myself a shorthand for adding to RSVP lists" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+37) "/* RSVP */ me!" (view diff)
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aaronpk that works nicely. now I can add myself by going {{aaronpk}}
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kylewm does that work everywhere, not just RSVPs?
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aaronpk yeah I just made a template called {{aaronpk}} which is a link to my user page
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tantek.com created /Template:t (+33) "because aaronpk did it ;)" (view diff)
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aaronpk hehe
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aaronpk why not
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kylewm.com created /Template:kylewm (+30) "great idea, {{aaronpk}}" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Template:aaronpk (+28) "test h-card markup" (view diff)
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tantek yes that works
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aaronpk well in that case...
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tantek.com edited /Template:t (+28) "h-card" (view diff)
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kylewm Like 50% of me thinks it would be cool to put a 16x16 userpic in there too
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aaronpk heh
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GWG I have another odd question.
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tantek another? was the previous one even?
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GWG I'm looking at /comments-presentation
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kylewm.com edited /Template:kylewm (+26) "h-card" (view diff)
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KevinMarks Does ~~~ not do that right?
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KevinMarks Is ~~~ patchable?
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GWG Does anyone use commenter location on their sites?
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aaronpk KevinMarks: ~~~ renders <a>Aaronparecki.com</a> rather than my name in the link
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KevinMarks Right, but could it be better?
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aaronpk http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Signatures
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tantek KevinMarks - it also does an edit-save-time subsititution, so if you should wish to update it, you can't. Templates are live transclusion.
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kylewm.com edited /Template:kylewm (+2) "h-card the right way" (view diff)
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aaronpk looks like I can change my signature to include the h-card markup
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kylewm GWG: not that I'm aware of
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aaronpk as well as my name
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KevinMarks Aha
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GWG kylewm: I'm looking at different ways to style webmentions/comments.
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KevinMarks Though as Tantek says, that's edit time rather than display time inclusion
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aaronpk which is not necessarily a bad thing
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special:Preferences
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tantek.com created /Template:sparkline (+39) "let's see if this works" (view diff)
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GWG kylewm: I'm looking at where different people put different things.
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aaronpk KevinMarks: while you're there you can click the "remember me" checkbox
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luxagraf GWG: Been doing the same and thinking that the wiki needs a design patterns section to make that process easier/more visual
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tantek.com edited /Template:sparkline (+24) "va b" (view diff)
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GWG kylewm: I'm looking at /comments-presentation
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tantek.com edited /Template:t (+40) "sparkline image" (view diff)
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GWG For example...date above or below entry
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GWG Twitter and Facebook, for example, do above
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tantek luxagraf - what's the question you're trying to answer?
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tantek (and rather than having a design patterns section, so far we've been documenting each area of design on the page on the specific subject)
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GWG luxagraf: You can see a lot of examples in the wiki. But, try what I do...IRC_People.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: those are design decisions that you make for your own sensibilities. I use date-below
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (-28) "let's try it in a list" (view diff)
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luxagraf I just thought it might be nice to see all the various ways people have visual displayed things, a bit like: http://bradfrost.github.io/this-is-responsive/patterns.html
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tantek kylewm - check it out
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club#RSVP
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aaronpk tantek: oh my
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GWG For example. I looked at KartikPrabhu, aaronpk, tantek, and a few more to see what appealed to me
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tantek for a good time try zooming :)
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KartikPrabhu that is what I do too... look at actual sites and go from there
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aaronparecki.com edited /Template:aaronpk (+47) "add tiny photo" (view diff)
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tantek GWG - yes I remember that phase! I spent hours looking at pixel difference between Twitter tweets and others, both on permalink pages and in a stream
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luxagraf That's what I'm saying, collect up some screenshots of all the actual known examples and dump them in one place.
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tantek luxagraf - not "in one place"
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tantek but by page
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tantek so we do that already and encourage it
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tantek so if you see something that lack screenshots add it to *that* page
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I'm working on something I want to look good with different themes.
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kylewm GWG: sorry I didn't have an answer but thank you for making me realize I needed to fix my geo markup :)
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tantek luxagraf, often with analysis, here's an example: http://indiewebcamp.com/event#Silo_Examples
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GWG I'm trying to figure out what else I might want to add.
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kylewm tantek: aaronpk: lol you did it! that's excellent
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luxagraf tantek: right like that, but with everyone from indiewebcamp's various sites
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tantek luxagraf - feel free to do so - some folks have - it's all incremental and in progress as a wiki always is
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kylewm.com edited /Template:kylewm (+63) "added sparkline image" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu luxagraf: some pages have that. depends on people adding/documenting their own sites
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kylewm now I have to come to HWC just so i can RSVP for it
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kylewm.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+39) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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tantek gosh darnit all of barnabywalters's screenshots are inaccessible because they were in Open Photo on his own server which broke with some update or another
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tantek e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com/patterns/note-list#Documented_Examples
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tantek and http://indiewebcamp.com/patterns/note#Documented_Examples
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aaronpk that's a good reason to upload to the wiki instead of hotlinking
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tantek I'm going to say that's a good reason to not put images in a database :P
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tantek (because that's where they are, stuck on barnaby's server)
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luxagraf tantek: touche
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tantek (if they were static files, everything would work just fine)
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aaronpk well the photo itself is on disk
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aaronpk he could have just as easily lost the server config for serving that virtual host
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tantek aaronpk is it? I have no idea how open photo works that way but the fact that a software update could break an image link makes me think it's pulling junk out of a db
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aaronpk is his openphoto still running?
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tantek sort of? what do you mean by "running"?
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luxagraf and i was looking at openphoto as a possible replacement for flickr. disappointing that it's apparently fragile
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aaronpk hm it is, but everything is private now http://photos.waterpigs.co.uk/
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tantek luxagraf - any web server software that isn't actively selfdogfooded by its creators is fragile and should not be trusted
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tantek as in selfdogfooded on their own personal domain
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luxagraf tantek: true
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tantek and if web software creators themselves don't have a personal domain they use on the web then the web software is categorically untrustworthy
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aaronpk (a slightly less harsh way of saying that is the software should be treated as an ephemeral app)
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luxagraf tantek: I lean toward ftp for photos. And it's one case where I think a database isn't all that useful since exif already contains any metadata you'd want
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tantek luxagraf that's a very interesting point
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tantek or rather a countering of the point that databases are "good" for structured meta data
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tantek the meta data belongs in the static file itself
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tantek whether in the form of microformats in an HTML file
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tantek or EXIF in a JPG
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tantek or ID3 in an MP3
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aaronpk well good luck querying a pile of photos by the exif data, I have yet to find any software that does that well
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luxagraf tantek: well, so long as you don't strip the exif, which some apps do when you "save or web" or whatever
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tantek aaronpk, "querying" = a task for a cache - i.e. a purgeable db built from static files
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aaronpk still, I haven't found any software that does that well
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aaronpk except for *one* which has since died
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aaronpk BrilliantPhoto, a windows app
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aaronpk it was fantastic. it even had a way to export albums as a web site full of html files and jpgs
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luxagraf aaronpk: I've had good luck with the standard image tools in python
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rascul there i did it
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rascul now when you /whois me i'm rascul@rascul.io
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tantek.com edited /selfdogfood (+533) "don't trust web server software that's not actively selfdogfooded by its creators on their personal domains" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu <phew> fixed my DB wrongness! now to do the same on live site!!
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tantek.com edited /selfdogfood (-1) "/* perspectives */" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /OpenPhoto (+22) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /openphoto (+22) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /open_photo (+22) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Open_Photo (+22) "r" (view diff)
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aaronpk well there's a case I hadn't considered... when both case versions of a page name are a redirect
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tantek.com edited /Trovebox (+0) "formerly" (view diff)
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tantek uh, aaronpk - take a look at this: http://indiewebcamp.com/Trovebox
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aaronpk yeah...
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tantek note the broken link for http://theopenphotoproject.org
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aaronpk this is why you don't parse html with regex
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aaronpk it's my p-summary plugin
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tantek how is that failing?!? regex had a limited number of lines?
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tantek er ok this is a new problem
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tantek got it
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tantek then I'll stop trying to "fix" it
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aaronpk this is part of the "just look for the <dfn> tag up until the period" thing you so casually threw out there ;)
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tantek hahaha ok
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tantek not counting periods in URLs. OBVIOUSLY. ;)
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tantek oh but ". "
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luxagraf so, because im that guy, of the 13 core contributors to openphoto only one is actually running an instance. and it looks about half broken. not very inspiring.
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tantek what could possibly go wrong? ;)
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rascul http://stackoverflow.com/a/1732454
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tantek luxagraf, PLEASE add that research to http://indiewebcamp.com/Trovebox#Criticism
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tantek maybe with heading "Insufficient Selfdogfooding"
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luxagraf okay, will do. to be fair though I was looking at http://theopenphotoproject.org/team because I can't find anything similar on the Trovebox site
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aaronpk that seems like a reasonable place to look
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tantek luxagraf - add that note too!
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luxagraf.net edited /Trovebox (+333) "added note about lack of dogfooding" (view diff)
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luxagraf and on that note, I'm off.
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gregorlove.com created /Template:gRegor (+259) "Jumps on the bandwagon" (view diff)
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aaronpk fancy fancy
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-05-07-homebrew-website-club (-28) "/* RSVP */ testing out {{gRegor}}" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:sparkline (+16) "+ u-photo class" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:Navbox (+20) "text-align: center. Firefox was not centering title." (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-05-07-homebrew-website-club (-2) "/* Where */ whitespace edit" (view diff)
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@aokarim @warrenellis IndieWeb. Looks like a variation on WordPress, or perhaps built upon it. (twitter.com/_/status/466038565252501505)
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KartikPrabhu hmm I'll let WarrenEllis debunk this...
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gRegor` twtr.io links not working currently, or just me?
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: works for me
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gRegor` Yeah, something must be up locally. t.co links are loading (extra) slowly, too.
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KartikPrabhu is happy to report a successful migration of database to new app name!
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KartikPrabhu that was horribly convoluted!
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: i blame that thunderstorm
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gRegor` Did it hit down there? Only had some thunder in the distance up here.
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gRegor` Unfortunately. I would have liked a nice thunderstorm
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-05-07-homebrew-website-club (-4) "/* Notes */" (view diff)
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GWG KartikPrabhu: So, what do you plan on doing in NYC?
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KartikPrabhu It is not during break time so I'd mostly be there for IWC
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KartikPrabhu actually that wholly depends on where I'm staying and whether I can afford a vacation :P
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GWG Will you just arrive Sat morning and leave Sun night?
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KartikPrabhu either that or Friday evening to Sun night... again depending on my staying situation
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@skry RT @klintron: The Tiny Box That Lets You Take Your Data Back From Google http://technoccult.net/archives/2014/05/12/indie-box/ [T0] #indieweb #indiebox (twitter.com/_/status/466053856640921601)
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KartikPrabhu I'm trying to discover old high school friends that I can crash with ;)
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GWG KartikPrabhu: Sorry. I didn't go to high school with you.
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KartikPrabhu haha :D
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GWG But if you come in on Friday, I could see about food.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: thanks! I will take care of this soon :) I'd really like to attend
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GWG Maybe one of the other attendees wants to share a room
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KartikPrabhu I think only tantek is nonlocal besides me
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I think Bear is coming from Philly
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GWG If he comes like last time
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KartikPrabhu oh yeah bear too
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GWG Anyway...
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@MogulAzam RT @t: speaking on #indieweb at Personal Democracy Forum #pdf14 NYC 2014-06-05! http://personaldemocracy.com/product/personal-democracy-forum-2014-registration Code: SPEAKER3DE7CE1F (ttk.me t4W21) (twitter.com/_/status/466075614412546048)
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@caseyisreading ✌ @Reading "IndieWebify.Me - a guide to getting you on the IndieWeb" http://www.reading.am/p/33oG/http://indiewebify.me/#send-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/466082907443191808)
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@caseyisreading ✌ @Reading "IndieNews - Front Page" http://www.reading.am/p/33oJ/http://news.indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/466083930417135616)
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tantek.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+34) "/* Established Meetings */ add benwerd to co-organizing sf" (view diff)
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@caseyisreading ✌ @Reading "p3k - IndieWebCamp" http://www.reading.am/p/33oK/http://indiewebcamp.com/p3k (twitter.com/_/status/466085170765135872)
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tantek.com edited /Trovebox (+191) "move Insufficient Selfdogfooding to top of criticism, add subheadings" (view diff)
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@benwerd Neat! @t is talking about the #indieweb at the Personal Democracy Forum in June: http://tantek.com/2014/132/t1/speaking-indieweb-pdf14-nyc-code (twitter.com/_/status/466107828319424512)
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@Johannes_Ernst RT @benwerd: Neat! @t is talking about the #indieweb at the Personal Democracy Forum in June: http://tantek.com/2014/132/t1/speaking-indieweb-pdf14-nyc-code (twitter.com/_/status/466110992204582912)
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@CatalystWebDev Indie Web Design Events. #webdev http://indiewebcamp.com/Events http://t.co/kd9yvRkQpb (twitter.com/_/status/466111858424807424)
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@MozillaContent RT @benwerd: Neat! @t is talking about the #indieweb at the Personal Democracy Forum in June: http://tantek.com/2014/132/t1/speaking-indieweb-pdf14-nyc-code (twitter.com/_/status/466173639067328512)
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@tedcurran Indie Box lets you take your data back - http://Wired.co.uk #indieweb #controlyourdata http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-05/13/indie-box-data-back-from-google (twitter.com/_/status/466205338698391552)
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GWG Reading about Webactions.
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GWG Wondering what I might install
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kylewm GWG: I think https://github.com/barnabywalters/web-action-hero-toolbelt is sort of the cutting edge thing
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@tmreading2 Allen Tan is reading "p3k - IndieWebCamp" because of Casey Gollan http://www.reading.am/p/33q7/http://indiewebcamp.com/p3k (twitter.com/_/status/466222786013560832)
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ben_thatmustbeme morning all
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kylewm morning ben_thatmustbeme
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ben_thatmustbeme i still haven't seen anyone's updates in google Now yet
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kylewm huh, maybe you were getting A/B tested
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ben_thatmustbeme nah, I get it for other sites, Its just a matter of catching it at the right time
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ben_thatmustbeme I have to keep searching google for your sites
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ben_thatmustbeme and then watch for new posts
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kylewm.com edited /nginx (+965) "added notes about how I configure nginx for uWSGI/Python" (view diff)
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kylewm so, something has been bothering me... the http://indiewebcamp.com/Trovebox seems a little mean for what's basically a (declining? failed?) open source project
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cweiske they don't link the source code
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cweiske "get started" links to the commercial trovebox.com site
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snarfed kylewm: it seems like a common(ish) pattern on the wiki. someone complains about something here, someone else suggests putting it on the wiki
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kylewm.com edited /nginx (+0) "/* Using uWSGI with Ngnix */ oops, left my <pre> tag open" (view diff)
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cweiske oh. they link it
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cweiske main page, center bottom
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cweiske https://github.com/photo/frontend
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kylewm yeah, I was looking at that this morning, it seems commits are on the order of on every 6 months or so
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kylewm one*
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kylewm I could add that to the criticism section ;)
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barnabywalters kylewm: feel free to tone it down if you feel the criticism is phrased excessively nastily
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barnabywalters it is, nontheless, accurate
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kylewm it's probably useful information for someone building their own site to have, but I guess if it bothers me I can try to tone it down. oh yep what barnabywalters said
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barnabywalters I’m all for having a big red “DO NOT USE THIS SOFTWARE” banner over it
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barnabywalters hah! managed to fix it, finally
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barnabywalters it’s still quite broken, but at least the homepage and individual photo pages work now
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barnabywalters e.g. the gallery view is broken due to a javascript error: http://photos.waterpigs.co.uk/photos/list
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kylewm barnabywalters: is it backward-incompatible updates they made or something like that?
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barnabywalters as is signing in
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barnabywalters kylewm: I had switched to a development branch to get the latest updates, but it looks
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barnabywalters like they abandoned that branch
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barnabywalters checking out master and pulling got it to the state it’s in now
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barnabywalters i.e. slightly less broken
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kylewm and I didn't think the criticism was nasty, just that it seemed to be throwing stones at something that is already basically dead :)
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dariusdunlap FWIW, Met Jaisen of trovebox last night at the Indie Box meetup. He seemed excited about it all…
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kylewm ha, that's an interesting coincidence
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kylewm or not that much of a coincidence
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kylewm how was the meetup?
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kylewm it may also be that they have mostly abandoned "Trovebox Community Edition" and are working only on the commercial one... hard to know
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@jalbertbowdenii @cancelBubble that is so wack. all the more reason to just host your own. #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/466245173748711426)
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paulmunday.net edited /Trovebox (+2) "Switched trovebox link to the Community edition as trovebox.com makes no metion of self-hosted/FLOSS version" (view diff)
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kylewm ok, the more I read about it, it seems like they very quietly pivoted away from the self-hosted free version to a more silo-y paid hosted version. guess i'm ok with the criticism section now with a little more context
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dariusdunlap Could also be that they are doing what somany commercial opensource companies seem to do… update the open source project only at major milestones.
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dariusdunlap The Indie Box Meetup was good. Not as many folks as I was hoping, but we got a couple people who were new to the project and asked interesting questions.
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barnabywalters I wonder if it would be worth reaching out to Jaisen asking (friendlyly) about the pivot, maybe seeing if he could write a post about it or something, to document whatever challenges presumably led to the change
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barnabywalters dariusdunlap: that’s good to hear
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@ilparone What is an Indie Box? http://www.wired.com/2014/05/out-in-the-open-indie-box/ ht @benwerd #indieweb #data #internet (twitter.com/_/status/466247527465897987)
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dariusdunlap One of them, an engineer from Intel SDG (I think that’s right) even took notes.
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dariusdunlap Johannes seems to know him, so I will ask J. when I speak to him later today.
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dariusdunlap Johannes seems to know Jaisen, that is…
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dariusdunlap The way Jaisen was talking, it sounded like maybe this was a Wordpress - Automaticc sort of change. It may be that the disconnect is just a matter of housekeeping that’s not yet done.
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kylewm.com edited /Trovebox (+259) "added note about pivot? away from self-hosted" (view diff)
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kylewm I can't figure out what the link to http://theopenphotoproject.org/ on there is broken. 2nd link on the page
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jonnybarnes anyone here on a mac?
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barnabywalters raises hand
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: can you try something for me? edit /etc/hosts and add 127.0.0.1 ww.facebook.com at the end, then run `dscacheutil -flushcache;sudo killall -HUP mDNSResponder` (if on 10.9), then goto www.facebook.com (any site would work really)
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jonnybarnes i.e. can you overwrite public domains with your hosts file?
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jonnybarnes I can't
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dariusdunlap Regarding trovebox. There’s this, which seems to be getting updates on several of the projects: https://github.com/photo — “Trovebox Community Edition”
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dariusdunlap It’s unix, you should be able to.
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: I see an “unable to connect” error
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rascul jonnybarnes dunno about mac but normally /etc/nsswitch.conf needs to be have files before dns for the hosts line
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rascul i'm guessing mac uses nsswitch.conf also
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jonnybarnes what? hmm, what do you see as your output for `scutil --dns` that should list all known resolvers and the order they're queried
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jonnybarnes I see nameserver as 1 and local as 2 and then random arpa entries
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kylewm aaronpk: fyi, there seems to be something weird going on with links in the <dfn> sentence of an article on the wiki. see: http://indiewebcamp.com/Trovebox
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rascul this could be interesting if anyone hosts their sites on github http://instantclick.io/github-pages-and-apex-domains
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kylewm dariusdunlap: it's still sad to me to see a project that was kickstarter funded and developed in the open go silent after receiving venture funding
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kylewm not that they're not within their rights to do that
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paulmunday.net created /User:Paulmunday.net/sandbox (+205) "Created page with "'''[https://github.com/photo Trovebox]''' (formerly [http://theopenphotoproject.org OpenPhoto]) '''<dfn>[https://github.com/photo Trovebox]</dfn>''' (formerly [http://theopenp..."" (view diff)
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tallpaul kylewm: it looks likes it the drn tags: http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Paulmunday.net/sandbox
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tallpaul dfn tags
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kylewm tallpaul: ah ha, looks like you're right
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gRegor` That's odd that it's showing the "org"
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gRegor` Doesn't do it for a .com
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gRegor` Very odd. If I change http://theopenphotoproject.org to any other domain, it seems to show the link properly.
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aaronpk there's something wrong with the regex I wrote the other day
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gRegor` Or maybe it's only the second+ link that doesn't mess up.
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aaronpk if anyone wants to help I'd gladly take suggetsions
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gRegor` The link after a second dfn in my tests worked
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gRegor` Certainly, aaronpk.
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gRegor` The regex for Loqi finding summaries?
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gRegor` Or something related to [link] syntax?
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aaronpk it's a mediawiki extension, one sec
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gRegor` k
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aaronpk here's the problem http://rubular.com/r/o0uFuipNrW
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aaronpk need to match a line with <dfn> up until the end of the sentence
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aaronpk hm this one might work better http://rubular.com/r/2G9mHF6oq3
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aaronpk better http://rubular.com/r/L90lFexTFB
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/gRegorLove/464469446267248640/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (webmention)
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gRegor` Just a moment.
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aaronpk might be worth spot checking a few different cases tho
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gRegor` Oh, this isn't the linking issue?
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aaronpk this is the problem where links within the dfn line get munged
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gRegor` Hm. I'm not sure I see how. Why would the auto-linker be using this regex? I thought this was just the regex to extract the text to display in IRC?
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aaronpk no, it's a mediawiki plugin that looks for the dfn line and adds a p-summary class around it
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gRegor` Is there a link to source code so I can see the context?
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gRegor` Ah
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aaronpk take a look at the mf2-parsed version of a page http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Fcomment
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aaronpk Loqi is just looking for the p-summary after parsing the page
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Loqi who, me?
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aaronpk so the MW extension after finding a match with the regex does this: $text = str_replace($match[0], '<span class="p-summary">'.$match[0].'</span>', $text);
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aaronpk k replaced with that latest regex and this looks better now http://indiewebcamp.com/Trovebox
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barnabywalters just used https://github.com/taproot/authentication in a new application for the first time, only needed one small tweak to work perfectly!
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aaronpk barnabywalters++
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Loqi barnabywalters has 38 karma
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aaronpk gRegor`: if you want to help, it would be great to collect a few URLs with different types of dfn lines, and copy the first paragraph of each into a file
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aaronpk then I can write tests for the regex to make sure it handles all the cases
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gRegor` Ok, will do
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aaronpk looking at various pages of the wiki, sometimes the dfn line is one sentence, two sentences, sometimes contains links, sometimes contains other odd punctuation like () or ""
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gRegor` I understand it better now. I see how it was stopping the link at the period in .org and then closing the span
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aaronpk try to find as many different variations of the intro paragraph as possible
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gRegor` And you only want the first sentence
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aaronpk yep
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gRegor` Can I put multiples of these in one wiki page to test?
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aaronpk i think it'll only replace the first
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aaronpk do you php?
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gRegor` Yeah
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gRegor` I can set up some tests locally
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gRegor` The last regex looks good at a glance and a few tests haven't broken it yet.
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aaronpk this works https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/07c3891aa0e9327e1fbd
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aaronpk feel free to add more test cases in there
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aaronpk also just realized the trailing space after the first sentence shouldn't be included in the <span>, so maybe see if you can fix that too
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aaronpk that code is from the plugin, so i'll just drop it back in
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aaronpk k now it has a git repo so you can send a pull request if you want https://github.com/aaronpk/mediawiki-mf2-dfn
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tantek reads logs
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@marinXchange Hey @Sally_K @RJRmassage @Brainmaker Hankering for #marintweetup #marin #twitter community - Socialize and theorize #indieweb #privacy ? (twitter.com/_/status/466270778049040384)
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tantek neat - a Marin Homebrew Website Club perhaps?
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gavinc Or just North of the Golden Gate Homebrew Website Club....
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bret I used to live in marin :)
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aaronpk seems I am not the only one with problems logging in to the IIW wiki, so that's good
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gRegor` aaronpk: PR sent. My first one, actually, so hopefully I did it correctly.
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aaronpk sweet!
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gRegor` That space drove me nuts
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gRegor` But finally re-remembered that the non-capturing group just means it doesn't sub-group the characters
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gRegor` They'll still appear in the main match
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gRegor` It's so it doesn't mess up you sub-group numbering.
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gRegor` s/you/your/
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Loqi gRegor` meant to say: It's so it doesn't mess up your sub-group numbering.
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kylewm gRegor`: your PR uses tabs instead of spaces, if you want to change it real quick before aaron notices ;)
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gRegor` tabs 4 eva ;)
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tantek wow: http://instantclick.io/github-pages-and-apex-domains
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aaronpk "What I’ve noticed is that sometimes it’s not just a big long redirect but multiple 302 redirects. This behavior isn’t documented anywhere it seems."
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aaronpk this corresponds with what bret and I were seeing
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aaronpk didn't realize it was part of the DDoS mitigation
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aaronparecki.com edited /post (+3) "formatting" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, bret - any idea how to document this "problem" with github static pages? is it a warning? an issue? I'll leave it to your perspective on how to add it to http://indiewebcamp.com/GitHub
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tantek kylewm, definitely feel free to adjust tone of any criticism on the wiki. Let's make it as much of a resource focused on accuracy as we can.
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tantek I do think it is important to document valid criticisms openly, as a counter to how much hype is out there about so many things, and as examples of what to *avoid*.
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tantek E.g. when we have criticisms of silos, it helps us understand both the positive advantages of our sites, and what to look out for should any of us launch a content hosting service of any kind.
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tantek similarly with critiques of some open source projects (e.g. monoculture, lack of selfdogfood)
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GWG tantek: Can I ask you a question? I find your responses most useful in sparking my creative process.
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tantek GWG - that's quite a compliment. I'll see what I can do. ;)
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GWG Webactions
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tantek yes!
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GWG You have webactions on your site that link to Twitter directly
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GWG I was thinking about the plugin I was trying to write
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GWG What else goes into a plugin that takes over the comment section of Wordpress
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tantek GWG - the fallbacks inside the webactions link to Twitter directly
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GWG And...webactions came to mind.
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tantek those fallbacks are inside the <action> tags.
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tantek the <action> tags are the web actions.
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GWG Yes
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tantek and I see barnabywalters is here too re: webactions
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barnabywalters waves
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tantek yes that makes sense (re: inclusion in a comment section)
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GWG But, I'm trying to decide what functionality would make sense.
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tantek what functionality do you think users would want upon reading your posts?
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GWG My concern is some of what the wiki says
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GWG How do you avoid the user having to choose from Favoriting/Liking on Facebook, Twitter, etc?
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GWG I'm thinking of the non-savvy types.
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barnabywalters GWG: are you assuming that you can only have one fallback per action?
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GWG That is what I'm confused about.
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barnabywalters you can stick however much markup you want inside an <action> element
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barnabywalters so, you might decide to have a <action do=like>
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barnabywalters with twitter favourite, facebook like and G+ G+ inside
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barnabywalters this is where <action> elements really shine: they replace lots of irrelevant silo-markup and branding with one, focused action affordance
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barnabywalters which is tailored to the user looking at it
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tantek GWG - you the site owner choose what you want the fallback experience to be. Full stop.
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tantek so if you want to choose just one fallback provider (e.g. what I did with Twitter), that's totally fine. If you want to choose a handful, that's fine to.
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tantek too
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tantek as barnabywalters described in more detail :)
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tantek kylewm, snarfed, all that is necessary for hype to distract & disillusion is for shipping creators to stay silent.
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GWG Does anyone have multiple providers up?
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GWG I can't visualize this.
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GWG My problem is trying to picture it
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GWG Not the markup, the rendering.
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aaronpk i believe I have both twitter and facebook
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aaronpk only on articles I think http://aaron.pk/a4VU1
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gRegor` aaronpk: re the colons, should we maybe wrap beyond that in the p-summary? E.g. require a period after the first bullet?
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@kevinmarks Instapaper ships Fragmentions support by @bthdonohue https://medium.com/@bthdonohue/bb8159609d07?source=tw-29311a50808e-1400009256651 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/466298988900003841)
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aaronpk whoaaaaaaa
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aaronpk KevinMarks++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 32 karma
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gRegor` "post can refer to either:" wouldn't be very useful in IRC, but "post can refer to either: A discreet piece of content (perhaps a note or and article) — see also posts." might be more useful
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GWG aaronpk: Where?
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aaronpk GWG: http://aaron.pk/a4VU1
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KevinMarks Suddenly, a lot of users got fragmentions in their browser plug ins
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gRegor` That's impressive, KevinMarks.
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GWG aaronpk: Where on the page?
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aaronpk GWG: sidebar
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aaronpk "We also quietly rolled out an update to Instapaper’s Chrome and Safari extensions that will detect fragmentions"
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GWG Oh.
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GWG There it is
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tantek boom
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aaronpk oh nice, and that article ends with "Originally published on my blog. http://bthdonohue.com/post/85643490431/instapaper-fragmentions"
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tantek KevinMarks: now *that* is how you win against armchair architectural doubters in #whatwg
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tantek time to add an "Articles" section to /fragmentions KevinMarks!
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GWG SO, there is an argument that social buttons don't help with engagement. Since webactions look similar...how do people regard them?
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@mathewi Very cool! RT @kevinmarks: Instapaper ships Fragmentions support by @bthdonohue https://medium.com/@bthdonohue/bb8159609d07?source=tw-29311a50808e-1400009256651 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/466300052076371968)
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aaronpk do I need to add "fragmention" to loqi's twitter search?
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@manojpallai RT @mathewi: Very cool! RT @kevinmarks: Instapaper ships Fragmentions support by @bthdonohue https://medium.com/@bthdonohue/bb8159609d07?source=tw-29311a50808e-1400009256651 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/466300397884571649)
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tantek aaronpk - not as long as people seem to want to include the indieweb hasthtag when talking about it ;)
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tantek GWG - citation?
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tantek for "an argument that social buttons don't help with engagement" ?
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@QuibellPaul RT @mathewi: Very cool! RT @kevinmarks: Instapaper ships Fragmentions support by @bthdonohue https://medium.com/@bthdonohue/bb8159609d07?source=tw-29311a50808e-1400009256651 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/466300909371531265)
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GWG tantek: Isn't it in the webactions page?
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GWG http://informationarchitects.net/blog/sweep-the-sleaze/
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tantek :)
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GWG There are certainly critics
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tantek webactions, since they're user-choice-focused, are likely to be more useful to the user
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GWG tantek: How about this as a citation?
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GWG http://libux.github.io/blog/2014/03/13/nobody-clicks-on-social-media-buttons/
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tantek especially since they're designed to enable and empower indieweb users to directly interact with content by posting on their own site
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tantek nice! add it!
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GWG tantek: That is what I'm confused about.
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GWG I haven't seen that.
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tantek currently you need some sort of browser plugin like barnabywalters's web action hero toolkit to see it
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GWG Okay.
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GWG That is what I need to play with to figure out what this should look like
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tantek well it's certainly one possible UI
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tantek you could also do a server-side UI using either cookies, or having users login and remember their preference of action endpoints
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kylewm just installed web-action-hero-toolbelt, what a cool idea
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kylewm barnabywalters++
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Loqi barnabywalters has 39 karma
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gregorlove.com edited /post (-1) "typo" (view diff)
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barnabywalters kylewm: thanks! all feedback gratefully accepted :)
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barnabywalters maybe having some more people use it will finally nudge me into making it look a little better
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GWG barnabywalters: I have to assume users won'thave it installed though.
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kylewm barnabywalters: i was already set up with an interface for some bookmarks, so i pretty much plugged my urls in and it started working! the only thought I had so far is that it would be nice if the placeholder text said http://example.com/action?url={url} instead of url=
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kylewm bookmarklets*
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barnabywalters kylewm: hm yes that’s a good idea
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barnabywalters heading off now, will implement that change later
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GWG kylewm: What interface did you set up?
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aaronpk gRegor`: updated regex is live!
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aaronpk thanks!
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gRegor` Woo!
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kylewm tantek: thank you for your thoughts about the tone/content of that wiki article ... it's a difficult line to walk because i totally 100% agree that it's useful to say (and justify) "we've had bad experiences with this tool and don't recommend it anymore". but the guy is (was?) working on self-hosting stuff, and it felt to me a little bit like bret said to dave winer — "same team".
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kylewm i'm not sure how to thread that needle, which is why i didn't end up editing the article much (if anything i made it more negative)
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tantek kylewm, one way to thread the needle is to multiple people to iterate on the criticisms, and for us to check / read over each others words with an attempt at a detached perspective.
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tantek I appreciate the edits and clarification of the open source edition and what appears to have happened.
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kylewm that makes sense to me (iterate w/ several people with different perspectives), thanks tantek :)
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gRegor` You around, tantek?
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kylewm GWG: re: interface, I just meant I accept URLs like http://kylewm.com/admin/new?type=reply&in_reply_to={url}
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GWG Oh
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GWG So, if you get that and arelogged in...it wil set it up, but if you aren't....
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kylewm hmm, actually if you aren't logged in, it'll still open the post interface, you just won't actuallly be able to post anything
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aaronpk ooh "audience"?
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aaronpk is that an ACL?
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kylewm yep, well just a list of URLs
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aaronpk nice
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kylewm thanks! it's pretty barebones right now. I'm following tommorris's work with adding an address book/letting non-indieauth users to silo auth with interest
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aaronpk neat
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aaronpk is this a micropub client?
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kylewm sadly no
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kylewm not yet at least
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GWG I keep trying to figure out UI and then backend infrastructure.
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GWG Even if I change my mind later
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GWG So, I want to add webactions, but I need to figure out what it looks like if there is no support
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tantek GWG, right, good to figure out both what actions you want to provide, and what fallbacks.
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tantek gRegor`: on and off
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gRegor` tantek: On http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox you mentioned there's lots of display: none
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gRegor` I'm not sure there's a way around it, though. I had to use the multiple span method due to MediaWiki limitations. All the information is ultimately displayed, just the redundant parts are hidden. Is there still a problem with that method?
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gRegor` MediaWiki doesn't let you insert template variables in some HTML elements, like <time> and <abbr> unfortunately.
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aaronpk mediawiki is unfortunately opinionated about html tags
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GWG tantek: With a plugin, I'd like start with a default and put in an options page to change it dynamically later
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gRegor` E.g. it's a one-day-event template, but I had to display the date twice, to capture the dt-end properly. The user doesn't need to see the date twice, though.
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GWG Then the question is...do I want to establish a 'local' like.
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@kevinmarks “Many programmers have…too much time on their hands, which they use to dwell on "API design" and thus monstrosities are born.” #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/466319493103616000)
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tantek gRegor`: there is a subtle date-time value class pattern rule that you can use to avoid duplicating the date
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tantek if a dt-end is specified with the value class pattern without a date (e.g. only a time), then it is defined to take it's date from the (presumably previous in the markup) dt-start
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/vcp#hCalendar_dtend_implied_date
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gRegor` Ok, let me try that. I thought I had tried that at one point and php-mf2 didn't parse it
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gRegor` Just got to the same part of that page :)
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GWG I need to like that KevinMarks quote
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tantek what I don't know is if php-mf2 supports it or not, if it doesn't then that's just another discussion :)
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tantek wow where did that quote come from
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:one-day-event (-91) (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:one-day-event (+0) (view diff)
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gRegor` tantek: updated. pin13 just shows the time for the dt-end, is that correct behavior? http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:one-day-event (-56) (view diff)
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jonnybarnes gRegor`: has anyone eveer filled in the full form at gregorlove.com/apply?
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gRegor` Not in quite a while, but yes.
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gRegor` It used to be linked in the main navigation in previous iterations. Now it's just linked from the about page :)
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tantek gRegor`: sounds like we need some minimized dt-* vcp test cases for php-mf2 :)
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aaronpk is that supposed to be handled by the mf2 parser?
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tantek to then file a bug with against php-mf2
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aaronpk not by the thing consuming the parsed data?
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gRegor` vcp?
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tantek aaronpk, vcp is in the parsing spec
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kylewm gRegor`: you've got a dt-start around the dt-end, is that intentional?
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kylewm value-class-pattern
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gRegor` kylewm: That's what's listed on the mf2 wiki.
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kylewm we'll need to update mf2py for that too
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tantek you certainly don't need to nest the dt-start and dt-end
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tantek but you can
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gRegor` I'm presuming this page is up to date: http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#hCalendar_dtend_implied_date
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gRegor` I tried it both ways.
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tantek yes it is up to date with microformats1 markup
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gRegor` Unnested, pin13 prepended the time with "T"
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gRegor` Nested, it has no "T"
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tantek microformats2 parsers must still process vcp per that spec, but with uf2 properties (obv)
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tantek if there are any questions/doubt about it, we should fix the specs accordingly
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gRegor` Mmk
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gRegor` I can open an issue on php-mf2 and dig into some tests / fixes later.
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tantek in particular I'm hoping to hear from barnabywalters and/or kylewm re: difficulty of implementation and/or how generic or not the approach is
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tantek I have some ideas for improving vcp, but I wanted to get feedback first
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tantek (on the existing vcp)
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tantek bbiab
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kylewm trying to understand nested properties. if i have <span class="p-property1">value1 <span class="p-property2">value2</span><span>, shouldn't that give property1 => "value1 value2"?
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gRegor` Hmm, or is it correct per http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#Date_and_time_parsing? "if the value has *only* a specific time (with or without timezone), parse it for a time value that can match any of the following:"
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gRegor` And then it goes on, doesn't say anything about an implied date.
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gRegor` I'm guessing the implied date is "higher up" in the general mf2 spec, though, under nested properties.
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kylewm my concern here is that mf2py parses "2014-05-21 18:30–19:30" like a date, time, and timezone (-1930)
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gRegor` On that sandbox page, kylewm?
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bret tantek: good article! definately part of the issue with GH-pages
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bret i will look into it some more. I thought it was related to DNS but wasnt totally sure
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gRegor` It definitely shouldn't be doing that. That's an en-dash and not a minus sign. Not to mention the way they're separated into VCP
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kylewm gRegor`: sorry, I see now that the date/first time have class="value"
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kylewm apparently, it's hard to guess what mf2py is doing then
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gRegor` Hooray for finding bugs in the nooks and crannies of mf2 parsing, heh
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bret kylewm: which article were you referencing above?
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kylewm bret: on the wiki, or where was i quoting you from?
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kylewm we were discussing indiewebcamp.com/Trovebox this morning, which I was worried was overly negative/mean
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tantek kylewm - yes re: property1 => "value1 value2"
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kylewm tantek: sorry about that, I was confused
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tantek gRegor`: this entire heading talks about "implied date" http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#hCalendar_dtend_implied_date
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kylewm the weird thing about http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox is that both php-mf2 and mf2py parse the second date differntly than the first
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kylewm the date of the second event*
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barnabywalters reads logs
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barnabywalters I see some mentions of php-mf2, but it’s not entirely clear what — can someone phrase it as a question? or raise an issue on php-mf2?
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tantek barnabywalters: I believe gRegor (or maybe kylewm ? ) is working on a test case for implied dt-* date as part of value class pattern support, and then filing an issue on php-mf2 accordingly.
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tantek brb
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barnabywalters okay cool I’ll deal with it when the issue is raised then :)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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