#indiewebcamp 2014-05-14

2014-05-14 UTC
tantek, KartikPrabhu, alistair, caseorganic, circ-user-G6t2q, jedahan, snarfed and gRegor` joined the channel
#
gregorlove.com edited /Template:one-day-event/doc (+340) (view diff)
snarfed joined the channel
#
gregorlove.com edited /Template:one-day-event/doc (+684) "/* Blank Template */" (view diff)
#
gregorlove.com edited /Template:one-day-event/doc (+49) "/* Parameters */" (view diff)
Hodgestar, caseorganic and caseorga_ joined the channel
#
gregorlove.com edited /Template:one-day-event/doc (+2988) "Examples" (view diff)
#
gregorlove.com edited /Template:one-day-event/doc (+111) (view diff)
#
gregorlove.com edited /Template:one-day-event/doc (+0) (view diff)
#
gregorlove.com edited /Template:one-day-event/doc (+2) "/* An event with UTC offset */" (view diff)
caseorganic joined the channel
#
@schnarfed New https://www.brid.gy/ feature! Webmentions for @Blogger, @tumblr, and @wordpressdotcom. https://snarfed.org/2014-05-13_webmentions-for-blogger-tumblr-and-wordpress-com #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/466386915122757632)
#
gregorlove.com edited /Events (+0) "move indie box meetup" (view diff)
#
@mikeaizatsky RT @schnarfed: New https://www.brid.gy/ feature! Webmentions for @Blogger, @tumblr, and @wordpressdotcom. https://snarfed.org/2014-05-13_webmentions-for-blogger-tumblr-and-wordpress-com #indiew… (twitter.com/_/status/466387754973425664)
kylewm and circ-user-Vvr3O joined the channel
#
gRegor` Woo, nice work snarfed.
#
gRegor` snarfed++
#
Loqi snarfed has 20 karma
snarfed and caseorganic joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks RT @schnarfed: New https://www.brid.gy/ feature! Webmentions for @Blogger, @tumblr, and @wordpressdotcom. https://snarfed.org/2014-05-13_webmentions-for-blogger-tumblr-and-wordpress-com #indiew… (twitter.com/_/status/466392958259171328)
caseorganic and j12t joined the channel
#
@colbyh RT @schnarfed: New https://www.brid.gy/ feature! Webmentions for @Blogger, @tumblr, and @wordpressdotcom. https://snarfed.org/2014-05-13_webmentions-for-blogger-tumblr-and-wordpress-com #indiew… (twitter.com/_/status/466399249878757377)
tantek, caseorganic, bnvk, fmarier and tilgovi joined the channel
#
@t > @sciencehackday moved from .com to http://t.co/q77BQMYpVP! Updated my links (as the #indieweb can). You should too! (ttk.me t4W32) (twitter.com/_/status/466411026880425986)
#
tantek.com edited /why (+115) "/* More robust */ add another example of fixing links when they break" (view diff)
paulcp, fmarier and snarfed joined the channel
#
snarfed thanks gRegor`!
#
GWG Good evening.
#
bret do I use rel="me" for an organization web page pointing to its profile page on meetup or twitter?
#
GWG That might be rel="publisher" But I'm not an expert. I'm often wrong
brent joined the channel
#
kylewm !tell tantek my 2c about parsing mf2 datetimes: the parser pretty much needs to use regex (or equivalent) to recognize a time vs. date vs. datetime. it'd be nice then if parsers used that to produce more uniform output (e.g., choose T xor space for the separator, colon or no-colon for the timezone). would make handling the parsed document much simpler
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
GWG kylewm: I may be using your likeness in more examples.
#
kylewm GWG: good thing i'm so pretty
#
GWG kylewm: The test post I'm styling happens to be one you send some tests to.
#
tantek kylewm - interesting, so a canonicalization of the date time (timezone)
#
Loqi tantek: kylewm left you a message 2 minutes ago: my 2c about parsing mf2 datetimes: the parser pretty much needs to use regex (or equivalent) to recognize a time vs. date vs. datetime. it'd be nice then if parsers used that to produce more uniform output (e.g., choose T xor space for the separator, colon or no-colon for the timezone). would make handling the parsed document much simpler
#
kylewm oops sorry for Loqiing you, i was looking for you in the t's instead of at the top of the list
#
kylewm and yep, to the extent possible that would be awesome. still makes sense to leave off seconds or the timezone (or the time altogether) if they're not included in the original
fmarier joined the channel
#
tantek kylewm it still makes sense to !tell people if they haven't been active recently
#
tantek kylewm - interesting, I think that would be useful yes, and with such details too
#
tantek kylewm - could you add that as a suggestion here? http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-brainstorming (creating a new subsection at the top works)
#
kylewm happy to!
#
@Kluskiewicz RT @schnarfed: New https://www.brid.gy/ feature! Webmentions for @Blogger, @tumblr, and @wordpressdotcom. https://snarfed.org/2014-05-13_webmentions-for-blogger-tumblr-and-wordpress-com #indiew… (twitter.com/_/status/466421632266162176)
jedahan joined the channel
#
KevinMarks Bret rel-me is a bit tricky fit organizations. It's OK as long as people don't rel me to them as well, which gets all kinds of broken
#
KevinMarks There have been suggestions for membership rels, not sure how much adoption
#
kylewm gRegor`: did you come to any conclusions about the implied date for dt-end? it seems odd to me to have special-case handling for that one mf2 property
#
gRegor` kylewm: You're going to make a regex for all those possible date-time mf2?
#
gRegor` (re: your earlier chat)
#
gRegor` I haven't thought about it. I honestly have only a high level understanding of microformats. I don't know all the ins and outs of what's proper or not for implied values
#
kylewm gRegor`: there's https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py/blob/master/mf2py/parse_property.py#L17 and https://github.com/kylewm/mf2util/blob/master/mf2util/dt.py#L20
#
gRegor` I was just going by the mf2 wiki as the authoritative source, and trying to remove the duplication of the event date per tantek's feedback
#
kylewm the former I lifted more or less directly from php-mf2
tantek joined the channel
#
gRegor` I did clone php-mf2 to see about making the implied dt-end work, but haven't gotten further on that.
#
kylewm so my understanding is that mf2 is all about generalizing microformats to be this super small set of rules that could handle any arbitrary property names
#
kylewm as opposed to e.g., hCalendar which can use domain-specific knowledge to say dtend is this and dtstart is that
#
gRegor` Not sure I understand the distinction. hCalendar is a microformat... ?
#
kylewm refering to this http://microformats.org/wiki/vcp#hCalendar_dtend_implied_date
#
kylewm which is microformats1, and i'm not exactly sure how much it applies to mf2
#
kylewm maybe a better discussion for #microformats?
#
kylewm or for later if you've better things to do
#
tantek yes -> #microformats :)
#
tantek is off to dinner. ttyl!
#
gRegor` http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#parsing_a_dt-_property (mf2) goes back to the value-class-pattern, so I think it's basically the same.
#
gRegor` It's getting late here so my brain won't work so well. :)
fmarier, alistair and j12t joined the channel
#
GWG gRegor`: What have you been working on?
#
gRegor` Tonight? Minecraft. :)
#
GWG gRegor`: I meant projects?
#
gRegor` More generally, http://indiewebcamp.com/Template:one-day-event and making sure the microformats are as minimal as possible (have to work around some MediaWiki limitations with templates)
#
gRegor` I think it's just about done, though. I think we found a problem in the mf2 parsing not picking up the implied date from the dt-start
#
GWG What will you do next?
#
gRegor` It will make the /events page much more manageable and better looking.
#
gRegor` I'm always tweaking my webmention stuff. Adding admin functionality, trying to join together comments and likes from the same person
#
gRegor` Outside of that, no specific plans
#
gRegor` Going to Portland IWC
#
GWG gRegor`: That last one...what would that look like?
#
gRegor` Example: http://gregorlove.com/2014/01/1178/#w9 under Sheryl's comment would be slightly smaller, and probably gray text "liked on Facebook". If you scroll further down, you'll see the separate webmention for her FB like.
#
GWG So you support local commenting.
#
gRegor` I just made a quick mockup and screencapped my idea: http://snag.gy/IFKh2.jpg
#
gRegor` Yeah, I've used Nucleus CMS for over a decade now and it's always had local comments.
#
GWG So, like that.
#
GWG Ok
#
kylewm aaronpk: i'm looking at php-comments, it returns "published" as a string. do you parse it to a DateTime after that?
#
gRegor` And obviously if it was liked multiple places, it would say "liked on Facebook, Twitter" and so on.
#
gRegor` I don't mind separate webmentions for now, but I also am not a big fan of the facepiles, so this is my goal
#
GWG gRegor`: Oh? Being as I'm developing a Facepile...what doesn't appeal?
#
gRegor` Almost midnight here, I'm heading to bed. Hit me up about that another time, though. :) Mostly just personal preference for my site.
#
GWG gRegor`: I'm curious. Want to improve my work.
dariusdunlap, KartikPrabhu, tantek, brianloveswords, eschnou and caseorganic joined the channel
#
@pfefferle RT @schnarfed: New https://www.brid.gy/ feature! Webmentions for @Blogger, @tumblr, and @wordpressdotcom. https://snarfed.org/2014-05-13_webmentions-for-blogger-tumblr-and-wordpress-com #indiew… (twitter.com/_/status/466455284307984384)
paulcp and smagali joined the channel
#
@vrypan @withknown is a publishing platform for everyone. It's part of the #indieweb movement. Definitely worth giving a try. (twitter.com/_/status/466462544790835200)
#
@vrypan .@withknown is a publishing platform for everyone. It's part of the #indieweb movement. Definitely worth giving a try. (twitter.com/_/status/466462668581527554)
#
@kyle_wm RT @vrypan: .@withknown is a publishing platform for everyone. It's part of the #indieweb movement. Definitely worth giving a try. (twitter.com/_/status/466463641739747328)
#
@benwerd RT @vrypan: .@withknown is a publishing platform for everyone. It's part of the #indieweb movement. Definitely worth giving a try. (twitter.com/_/status/466464327550386177)
#
@fdevillamil RT @vrypan: .@withknown is a publishing platform for everyone. It's part of the #indieweb movement. Definitely worth giving a try. (twitter.com/_/status/466464538028945408)
#
@benwerd RT @schnarfed: New https://www.brid.gy/ feature! Webmentions for @Blogger, @tumblr, and @wordpressdotcom. https://snarfed.org/2014-05-13_webmentions-for-blogger-tumblr-and-wordpress-com #indiew… (twitter.com/_/status/466464890912522240)
jsilvestre joined the channel
#
@myleejoseph RT @vrypan: .@withknown is a publishing platform for everyone. It's part of the #indieweb movement. Definitely worth giving a try. (twitter.com/_/status/466465454832504833)
cweiske joined the channel
#
@graffic RT @vrypan: .@withknown is a publishing platform for everyone. It's part of the #indieweb movement. Definitely worth giving a try. (twitter.com/_/status/466465825244086272)
#
@haverholm RT @vrypan: .@withknown is a publishing platform for everyone. It's part of the #indieweb movement. Definitely worth giving a try. (twitter.com/_/status/466467640568193027)
#
@erinjo +1000 RT @vrypan: @withknown is a publishing platform for everyone. It's part of the #indieweb movement. Definitely worth giving a try. (twitter.com/_/status/466470363699118080)
paulcp, tilgovi, KevinMarks, eschnou, Kopfstein, smagali, alistair, Sebastien-L, friedcell, krendil, wagle, ttepasse, pfefferle, tobiastom, jsilvestre, scor, jonnybarnes, bnvk, barnabywalters and pfefferle_ joined the channel
#
GWG Hello, Mr. pfefferle
#
GWG Big fan of your work.
#
pfefferle GWG thanks a lot :)
#
GWG pfefferle: Well, as a Wordpress user, I've found your plugins essential for me not having to try to code my own.
#
pfefferle I am glad you like them! let me know if you miss some features.
#
GWG pfefferle: I have. I'm the one who sent you the comment that prompted you to add the hook for the response code.
#
pfefferle aaaaahhh ok :)
#
GWG pfefferle: Right now, I wrote a plugin to take over the comment template and add mf2 markup, but also redraw the Webmentions as a Facepile using the semantic linkback meta the plugin adds.
#
pfefferle nice! have you released it on github?
#
GWG pfefferle: Not yet. I set up a github account, and there is one thing I want to look at before I upload it. Namely I want to take one more shot at a CSS stylesheet that will best inherit the theme.
#
GWG pfefferle: Also I had some naming issues.
#
GWG I tentatively called it "Semantic Comments" referring to its dependency on the Semantic Linkback plugin, but I'm not sure I like the name.
#
pfefferle ok :)
#
GWG That's not an issue so much though
#
GWG You can see it on my theming test site though
#
GWG http://tiny.n9n.us/2014/04/25/video-embed-test/
#
GWG A different version of the code is running on my primary site.
#
pfefferle I like the facepile part!
#
pfefferle have you seen willnorris’ code https://github.com/willnorris/willnorris.com/commit/de21d43f1aaa364853f1de7ae97504c0b87c85f1 ?
#
GWG pfefferle: That is the primary effect of the plugin. But to do it, I had to take over the entire comment template.
#
GWG pfefferle: I have. I started with looking at it.
#
GWG His requires the genesis framework
#
pfefferle I also made some changes to the comment-html on my theme… perhaps it helps… or maybe you have some improvment ideas for my code https://github.com/pfefferle/SemPress/blob/master/sempress/functions.php#L363
#
GWG pfefferle: I started my project working on a theme based on _s, the Wordpress starter theme.
#
pfefferle ah ok
#
GWG I forked a version of it that had the mf2 markup.
#
GWG Then I built a theme on top of it.
#
GWG Then, I decided to go back and start pulling out pieces of my theme and putting them into plugins.
chloeweil joined the channel
#
GWG Like the Facepile code
#
GWG So, my site is running the same code, but it is built into the theme. I'll be going back and removing it from the theme and using the plugin as well.
#
pfefferle that’s kind of the same process we tried with https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-uf2
#
pfefferle extracting all the stuff i used in my theme into a seperate plugin
#
GWG Wordpress-uf2 tries to add the classes and such via hooks.
#
GWG I tried it on 2014 though, it made it render oddly for some reason.
#
pfefferle :)
#
GWG pfefferle: I've looked through your whole catalog.
#
GWG But, for me, I was looking at people's comments on theme design, and there was a lot of talk that certain features should be in plugins so they could be incorporated into multiple themes.
#
GWG So, I looked at any feature I could have as a theme dependency, but could move out.
#
pfefferle yes, there might be some glitches because the hooks are called on different places (like feeds or in the admin backend) and that might cause some problems
#
GWG There is one more I'll be looking at separating.
#
GWG It generates rel-syndication links
#
pfefferle depending on webmentions?
#
GWG http://david.shanske.com/articles/2014/04/29/design-obsession/
#
GWG You can see it in the metadata on this post.
#
GWG pfefferle: Right now, it adds post meta for the URLs.
#
pfefferle but what are you using for syndications?
#
GWG pfefferle: The reason I contacted you about the Bridgy response code is that I wanted to take the response URL and store it in the post meta fields I created.
#
GWG pfefferle: A combination of Bridgy and a plugin called SNAP.
#
GWG SNAP by Nextscripts stores the ID of the syndicated post, but not the URL, which you'd have to derive.
#
pfefferle ok
#
GWG There is a rel-syndication plugin that extracts the same data from Mailchimp's Social plugin
#
pfefferle yes, i know
#
GWG I figured that the best thing to do is to support all of the major plugins by extracting the data from them and putting it into the same post meta field.
#
pfefferle yes, sounds good… the less you have to parse in realtime, the better...
#
GWG Not sure when I'll get to do everything I am planning. The Facepile code will be up soon. I just ripped it out of the theme and into a plugin on Friday.
#
pfefferle I am curious! drop me a note when you release something!
#
GWG pfefferle: Will do.
#
pfefferle thanks :)
#
GWG The other thing, and I know you have a plugin for it, is webactions.
#
pfefferle yes, feel free to add some more, if you miss some!
#
GWG I figured, if I'm taking over the comment section of Wordpress to do the Facepiles, what else can I stick in.
#
GWG I figured I might as well look at adding webactions to the plugin I'm working on.
#
pfefferle or add them directly
#
pfefferle that’s even better
#
pfefferle I found only two places atm
#
pfefferle the comment link and the comment form
#
pfefferle tried to add a share action to the jetpack plugin but the doesn’t let me...
#
pfefferle :(
#
GWG pfefferle: Since my plugin completely replaces the comments.php with my own version...adding webactions in fits.
#
pfefferle sure
#
GWG That will likely be after I release it to github.
#
GWG Hopefully my coding skills are up to the task.
#
pfefferle I am sure they are!
#
pfefferle And ask if I can help you with something!
#
GWG I was trying to figure out if I wanted to add local 'likes'.
#
GWG In addition to ones coming through Webmentions
#
GWG Not sure if you have a thought about that.
#
GWG I was looking at your webmention code, which uses comment type "webmention" and thinking if I did, I could create a 'like' type and use the same Facepile code to render it
#
pfefferle never really thought about that before
#
pfefferle yes, sure… but keep in mind that not every theme supports custom comment_types
#
pfefferle that’s why i added the possibility to change that
alistair joined the channel
#
pfefferle but it shouldn’t be a problem if you only use them for the facepile section
#
GWG And if rendering if done by my code
pfefferle_ and luxagraf joined the channel
#
luxagraf hey all, I'm the process of writing up my thoughts on moving from schema.org microdata to microformats
#
luxagraf wanted to ask though, technically there's no reason you couldn't use both right?
#
luxagraf Other than google says it's crawlers might get confused
#
barnabywalters luxagraf: ha ha really? where do they say that?
pfefferle_ joined the channel
#
barnabywalters that sounds ridiculous
#
barnabywalters technically there’s no reason you can’t use both
#
luxagraf right? I'm trying to find the tab with an attribution hang on
#
pfefferle there is no reason… I use both for a longer time and it seems there are no problems with it
#
luxagraf hmm, maybe I dreamed that, can't find a source now
#
luxagraf pfefferle: good to know
#
pfefferle the rich snippets tool reports no errors using both http://www.google.de/webmasters/tools/richsnippets?q=http%3A%2F%2Fnotizblog.org
#
luxagraf hmm, closest thing I can find is that google recommends "you should pick one markup standard and use it consistently across the page" https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/1093493#technical
#
luxagraf Interestingly that same page also says Google will ignore hidden content even if it uses value-title
paulcp joined the channel
#
pfefferle i think with hidden content they mean ”ždisplay: none“ stuff
tgb_ joined the channel
#
luxagraf pfefferle: right, but my understanding what that the value-title pattern is supposed to overcome that
#
luxagraf google's rich snippets tool also seems to ignore microformats in <data> tags
#
barnabywalters I finally have a reason to implement indieweb events! http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4W4Dvv/
#
barnabywalters but a note will have to do on such short notice
#
barnabywalters hopefully bridgy will manage to backfeed RSVPs successfully
#
pfefferle that might be… the parser is not that new… it also ignores all mf2 formats
#
luxagraf pfefferle: yeah I dropped in the v1 syntax as well. now thinking I might revert to v2 only, but with all the old microdata as well just for google/bing/etc
julien51 and jedahan joined the channel
#
tbrun NICK tbrun
#
pfefferle luxagraf sounds good
indie-visitor joined the channel
#
Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
kylewm_, snarfed, brianloveswords and hidgw joined the channel
#
aaronpk kylewm: yes to your earlier question, I usually return dates as full iso8601 strings and then parse them into a datetime object when I need to
tgb_ joined the channel
#
kylewm aaronpk: ok thanks, how hard do you have to work to parse it? (I'm asking because of http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-brainstorming#Canonicalization_of_datetime_output)
gRegor`, KevinMarks, tgbrun1, tgbrun, paulcp and jonnybarnes joined the channel
#
@CallMeAlien RT @t: speaking on #indieweb at Personal Democracy Forum #pdf14 NYC 2014-06-05! http://personaldemocracy.com/product/personal-democracy-forum-2014-registration Code: SPEAKER3DE7CE1F (ttk.me t4W21) (twitter.com/_/status/466598689445019649)
#
aaronpk kylewm: by "parse" I just mean pass off to the DateTime class and it handles it
kylewm joined the channel
#
kylewm ah, that's what i wondered. php must be more forgiving than python's strptime
#
barnabywalters !tell kylewm yep, new Datetime($string) will try very hard to parse what you pass it. Python’s equivalent is http://labix.org/python-dateutil#head-c0e81a473b647dfa787dc11e8c69557ec2c3ecd2
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
barnabywalters !tell snarfed I posted an event to facebook linking <—> with rel-syndication from an h-event on my site, do I have to do anything special to get Bridgy to backfeed RSVPs?
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
aaronpk barnabywalters: the event needs to be public
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: it is
#
aaronpk I've always put a link back to my canonical post as the last thing in the event's description, i'm not sure if the new posse-post-discovery code finds facebook stuff too
#
barnabywalters aaronpk: okay — I added the URL to the end of the description, so hopefully it’ll work
#
barnabywalters it’s had one RSVP but no backfeed, so I’m wondering if I did something wrong :)
iangreenleaf and jasonjohnwells joined the channel
#
@tgb Indiewebcamp - http://www.tombruning.com/indiewebcamp/ (twitter.com/_/status/466606311208390656)
npdoty joined the channel
#
barnabywalters tgbrun: I just replied to that article from my site — hopefully it’ll show up in your moderation queue :)
#
tgbrun <barnabywalters> Got the comment back,it is good to see that the linkback works as advertised!
#
barnabywalters tgbrun: yay!
#
Loqi yay!
#
tgbrun I did not realize that the twitter post would get here so quickly, what a community!
tantek joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks @briankardell @poulpita I mean that from their names you link to their twitter accounts. Link their personal websites instead #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/466609750491557888)
caseorganic joined the channel
#
@tgb RT @schnarfed: New https://www.brid.gy/ feature! Webmentions for @Blogger, @tumblr, and @wordpressdotcom. https://snarfed.org/2014-05-13_webmentions-for-blogger-tumblr-and-wordpress-com #indiew… (twitter.com/_/status/466613605496913920)
#
@Ladyfire_News Integrity Investor seek #genshibox #CraigAnthonyPerkins #tech #seedinvesting #startups #angelinvesting @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/466615291049291777)
#
barnabywalters ^^^ what does that even mean
#
aaronpk good question
brent and bshambaugh joined the channel
#
tantek Genshibox is like another indiebox I think.
#
rascul https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/genshi-box-personal-social-networking-appliance
tantek_ joined the channel
#
@Ladyfire_News get the https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/genshi-box-personal-social-networking-appliance to people with the need for #Internetaccess but without the means #tech #indieweb #isp #opensource (twitter.com/_/status/466618241406599168)
j12t, KevinMarks, ttepasse, tilgovi, caseorganic, paulcp, cweiske and kylewm joined the channel
#
Loqi kylewm: barnabywalters left you a message 1 hour, 19 minutes ago: yep, new Datetime($string) will try very hard to parse what you pass it. Python’s equivalent is http://labix.org/python-dateutil#head-c0e81a473b647dfa787dc11e8c69557ec2c3ecd2
caseorganic, j12t, kylewm, paulcp and snarfed joined the channel
#
Loqi snarfed: barnabywalters left you a message 1 hour, 35 minutes ago: I posted an event to facebook linking <—> with rel-syndication from an h-event on my site, do I have to do anything special to get Bridgy to backfeed RSVPs?
#
snarfed barnabywalters: i'll take a look
tilgovi joined the channel
#
KevinMarks I'm reading archives, so some delayed responses coming up
#
tantek gets the popcorn.
#
KevinMarks The quotation about api design cane from this article: http://www.yosefk.com/blog/why-bad-scientific-code-beats-code-following-best-practices.html
#
KevinMarks Which is a scientist calling for self-dogfooding
#
KevinMarks (still need a better name for that)
#
aaronpk eating your own ice cream
#
aaronpk or eyoic for short
#
aaronpk cause that's pronouncable
#
KevinMarks That was what I was getting at with Dave Singer and w3c
#
tantek self-taste-testing?
#
kylewm isn't the whole point of "dogfood" that it's supposed to be gross? you shouldn't give your users dogfood while you eat people food.
#
snarfed joins tantek
#
kylewm i have always liked it since Steve Yegge's accidentally public rant about google's platform
#
KevinMarks Right, but by the time you get to self-dogfooding it becomes very opaque - the metaphor takes too much explaining
#
kylewm fair enough, i understand the rationale for adding self- but it does seem redundant
#
KevinMarks Scratch your own itch is the competing meme
#
tantek KevinMarks - they're not quite the same
#
tantek in fact they're totally different
#
tantek how are they competing? they're complementary
#
tantek "Scratch your own itch" -> how you prioritize. Answers the question: What should I work on next?
#
snarfed !tell barnabywalters funny. i added the fb event oauth scopes after you signed up, so your bridgy access token doesn't include them. if you re-signup for bridgy, it should start backfeeding the rsvps
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
tantek "selfdogfood" -> answers the question: Is what I have built now of any value to anyone?
#
tantek "Scratch your own itch" -> figure out what food to make/cook next
#
snarfed tantek++
#
Loqi tantek has 41 karma
#
aaronpk I still don't like the negative connotations of dogfood
#
tantek "selfdogfood" -> eat the food I made/cooked and see if it's good enough at least for me.
#
tantek it's more like selfpotluck
#
kylewm I don't like the lactose tolerant connotations of icecream ;)
#
tantek haha
#
aaronpk actually "potluck" is a great term
#
aaronpk because you wouldn't bring food to a potluck that you wouldn't eat yourself
#
KevinMarks that's why I said competing. In startup circles there is an ongoing "build something that solves a problem you have" exhortation
#
snarfed the one thing i'll say in defense of self dogfood is that it's by far the best known and accepted term
#
snarfed that's probably much more valuable than any (lightly) negative connotations
#
snarfed immediately regrets joining the debate
#
KevinMarks Yes you would aaronpk. Lots of people bring cookies to Potlucks that they would never eat
#
KevinMarks Maybe my parents with teenage children Potlucks are different?
#
KevinMarks Sinc
#
KevinMarks Stone soup is the other metaphor there maybe?
brent joined the channel
#
tantek KevinMarks: which "startup circles" are these? I keep hearing about "build an app to get all of someone's friends to join then flip it"
#
tantek snarfed++
#
Loqi snarfed has 21 karma
#
tantek KevinMarks: that's a good point. Some use potlucks (especially picnics) as an anonymous dumping ground of food they don't want.
#
tantek Stone soup is even less appealing than selfdogfood
#
tantek and frankly, with the story behind stone soup - that's more of a monoculture reference
#
tantek turns out, stone soup is actually a *bad thing*
#
tantek (getting everyone to contribute to one big pot for everyone)
#
tantek per all the experience with monoculture
#
tantek might be time to document some of this "controversy" on the /selfdogfood page
#
KevinMarks Stone soup is a story about being a free rider that pretends to solve a collective action problem
glennjones joined the channel
#
tantek KevinMarks, yeah, plenty of anti-patterns in that story
#
KevinMarks Oops, missed my stop
jedahan, jedahan_, caseorga_, squeakytoy, bshambaugh, eschnou and brainTrain joined the channel
#
gRegor` selfpotluck++
#
Loqi selfpotluck has 1 karma
j12t joined the channel
#
@arielwaldman RT @t: > @sciencehackday moved from .com to http://t.co/q77BQMYpVP! Updated my links (as the #indieweb can). You should too! (ttk.me t4W32) (twitter.com/_/status/466650414675677184)
#
@sciencehackday RT @t: > @sciencehackday moved from .com to http://t.co/q77BQMYpVP! Updated my links (as the #indieweb can). You should too! (ttk.me t4W32) (twitter.com/_/status/466650662508724224)
tantek-ipod, brent, tilgovi and caseorganic joined the channel
#
@blackibiza RT @t: > @sciencehackday moved from .com to http://t.co/q77BQMYpVP! Updated my links (as the #indieweb can). You should too! (ttk.me t4W32) (twitter.com/_/status/466652027339436033)
#
tantek-ipod Random
eschnou, tantek-ipod_, Kopfstein, jedahan, hidgw and tantek-ipod joined the channel
#
@CoderDojoVA #indieweb about teaching people to #selfprovision data+communication capabilities.#Reclaim the same.#Fredx skill building underway+growing.. (twitter.com/_/status/466660383479316480)
jedahan, ttepasse and bnvk joined the channel
#
bnvk aaronpk: plz subscribe me to the mailing list :)
#
@Ladyfire_News @MMFlint check out this solution to lack of internet privacy https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/genshi-box-personal-social-networking-appliance #indieweb #freeSatelliteInternet (twitter.com/_/status/466663535372959744)
#
aaronpk bnvk: done! will be sent on friday!
#
bnvk yay
#
Loqi does a happy dance!
#
ben_thatmustbeme mailing list?
#
aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/this-week-in-the-indieweb
#
ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i'd like to be in on that
brent joined the channel
#
aaronpk cool, give me an email address to add!
#
ben_thatmustbeme ben@thatmustbe.me
#
ben_thatmustbeme difficult to guess
#
aaronpk added!
#
ben_thatmustbeme sweet
tgbrun joined the channel
#
bret lol selfpotluck
#
bret bringing something to a potluck and eating your own food
pauloppenheim joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme quiet today
#
brainTrain too hot to type
#
brainTrain :p
#
ben_thatmustbeme why thank you, but i don't know how you can see me
#
brainTrain I've been internetting for a while. You get to the point where you just know
#
brainTrain it's the vibrations that come off of the screen or something :p
dariusdunlap, eschnou, krendil, fmarier, chloeweil, kbs, warden, tantek, netweb, erikmaarten, scor, paulcp and brianloveswords joined the channel
#
tgbrun quit:
#
@briankardell @kevinmarks I have updated the 3 I know (and linked to @BoazSender's post just now)... Thanks for noticing that <3 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/466704492130365440)
tilgovi, brianloveswords, jedahan, caseorganic and erikmaarten joined the channel
#
aaronpk !tell tantek getting 502 bad gateway from http://cassisproject.com/
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
snarfed, tpinto_ and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
@Ladyfire_News @billmaher check out our project Bill #indieweb friend https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/genshi-box-personal-social-networking-appliance #freeInternetforall #InternetPrivacy Help us with our project (twitter.com/_/status/466723067834937344)
caseorganic and lukebrooker joined the channel
#
@encycl Sad to say I'll have to find a replacement for my <3 browser @firefox. The decision to add @Adobe's DRM code is wrong. #FAIF #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/466727495429914624)
#
pauloppenheim oh dear
#
jedahan so...anyone else getting a novena? I feel like indiewebfolk who are interested in free hardware would like the platform :)
#
pauloppenheim is the internet not bothering to *read* the mozilla DRM note?
#
pdurbin what note?
caseorganic and dariusdunlap joined the channel
#
pauloppenheim https://hacks.mozilla.org/2014/05/reconciling-mozillas-mission-and-w3c-eme/
#
pauloppenheim how it works
#
pauloppenheim and that it's optional
#
pauloppenheim and that they may have finally figured out proper sandboxing? ;)
#
pdurbin hmm. thanks