#indiewebcamp 2014-05-22

2014-05-22 UTC
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aaronpk !tell tantek I collected a bunch of URLs that contain(ed) that profile image: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/swag727
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/469255534307049472/469265722326384640 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-05-21-twitter-j-compromised.png (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/469255534307049472/469266513589837825 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-05-21-twitter-j-compromised.png (webmention)
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metafluff.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (-63) "/* RSVP */ boo, cannot make it tonight :(" (view diff)
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@andigalpern RT @t: Twitter @Safety vulnerability! If cell service @ATT, REMOVE phone# in profile @x @j compromised http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-05-21-twitter-j-compromised.png (ttk.me t4WB1) (twitter.com/_/status/469269535020023809)
tantek joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk tantek: that image is some anime character. I suspect there will be a lot of profiles with that image
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Loqi tantek: aaronpk left you a message 10 minutes ago: I collected a bunch of URLs that contain(ed) that profile image: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/swag727
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aaronpk yeah, not sure how helpful that list really is
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aaronpk but at least a few of the results were regular looking facebook pages that used to have it
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/469255534307049472/469269535020023809 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-05-21-twitter-j-compromised.png (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/469255534307049472/23732236 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-05-21-twitter-j-compromised.png (webmention)
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@t > @MozSF 17:30 Quiet Writing(blogging @ATT exploit) 18:30 Homebrew Website Club Meetup Join us! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (ttk.me t4WB3) (twitter.com/_/status/469270155575312385)
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@kevinmarks RT @t: > @MozSF 17:30 Quiet Writing(blogging @ATT exploit) 18:30 Homebrew Website Club Meetup Join us! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (ttk.me t4WB3) (twitter.com/_/status/469271322963374080)
notifix joined the channel
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/t/469270155575312385/469270790718771200 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/469270155575312385/815632 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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aaronpk finds a quiet space at the esripdx office to sit down and start writing
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/469270155575312385/469271322963374080 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
jedahan and tantek joined the channel
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tantek is stuck on MUNI at Montgomery inbound. Two stops to go to MozSF stop.
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tantek apologies to anyone waiting outside MozSF!
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tantek at Embarcadero station
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tantek exiting the tunnel
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/t/469270155575312385/469274795369328640 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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@andigalpern RT @t: > @MozSF 17:30 Quiet Writing(blogging @ATT exploit) 18:30 Homebrew Website Club Meetup Join us! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (ttk.me t4WB3) (twitter.com/_/status/469275796105068544)
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@karaem RT @t: > @MozSF 17:30 Quiet Writing(blogging @ATT exploit) 18:30 Homebrew Website Club Meetup Join us! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (ttk.me t4WB3) (twitter.com/_/status/469276275073626112)
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aaronparecki.com edited /login-brainstorming (+24) "add to indieauth category" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /auth-brainstorming (+24) "add to indieauth category" (view diff)
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@ashleyrichards RT @t: Twitter @Safety vulnerability! If cell service @ATT, REMOVE phone# in profile @x @j compromised http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-05-21-twitter-j-compromised.png (ttk.me t4WB1) (twitter.com/_/status/469276978307026946)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/469255534307049472/469276978307026946 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-05-21-twitter-j-compromised.png (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/469270155575312385/469276275073626112 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/469270155575312385/469275796105068544 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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@kevinmarks Homebrew Website Club writing hour #indieweb (@ Mozilla San Francisco - @mozsf w/ @t) https://www.swarmapp.com/kevinmarks/checkin/537d4a04498e53d843316b89?s=XQCZcnQ-l3WyoDKa4MJKIrFvJOY&ref=tw (twitter.com/_/status/469279326555619329)
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aaronpk whoa foursquare changed the web URLs for checkins too!
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aaronparecki.com edited /simple-indieauth-example (+25) "add to indieauth category" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /simple-indieauth-example (+64) "clarify" (view diff)
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aaronpk some new faces in PDX tonight!
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KevinMarks_ finds draft post to work on and realises it's been in draft for 2 years
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aaronparecki.com edited /simple-indieauth-example (-49) "no redirect needed here" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ wow, I have drafts that are 7 years old
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aaronpk eep
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KartikPrabhu is glad he's not doing as bad as KevinMars_ ;)
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KartikPrabhu and that failed hard!
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aaronpk tantek: will you have a vidyo URL for us soon?
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tantek I have one - figuring we can setup at 6:25
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tantek 18:25 rather
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aaronpk ok
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Loqi [mention] http://kylewm.com/article/2014/05/22/1/decentralized-hashtags linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://kylewm.com/article/2014/05/22/1/decentralized-hashtags linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Loqi (webmention)
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kylewm eep, gotta fix that, shouldn't send webmentions for drafts
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tantek heh :)
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tantek real-time-IRC debugging
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: oh so that's why the tweet-teply intent is not working :P
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: you can see that post?
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tantek the one that starts with "Literally rode my bike…" ?
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kylewm hehe, ha ok
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: I just clicked on the URL in webmention on IRC
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kylewm permalink works, not in the stream apparently
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aaronpk ooh interested to see where this post goes
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KartikPrabhu yeah that is how it should be no?
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kylewm hmm, I would like it to be hidden altogether unless i'm logged in
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kylewm no danger of accidentally sending webmentions that way :P
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aaronpk seems reasonable
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: future date them and send mentions only for past/present posts...?
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tantek KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 23 karma
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kylewm that's an interesting idea
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tantek I've found it exceptionally useful to have public visible future drafts
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tantek to share with friends for review
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tantek and just not have them linked to from anywhere (nor send any mentions)
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KartikPrabhu same^^ though I did copy tante on this one :)
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KartikPrabhu 's spelling part of the brain is failing
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tantek kylewm: I read your post. That's hilarious, you namedrop Loqi, so he outs your post here.
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kylewm is it possible to see the superfeedr thing for a keyword? that's what notifix is doing in here i think
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kylewm haha :)
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@J RT @t: Twitter @Safety vulnerability! If cell service @ATT, REMOVE phone# in profile @x @j compromised http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-05-21-twitter-j-compromised.png (ttk.me t4WB1) (twitter.com/_/status/469285375840907265)
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aaronpk looks like @j got her twitter account back? https://twitter.com/J/status/469284981701767170
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@J Hacked due to lame @att "Messages" service that allowed hacker to break into txt messages and essentially override two factor authentication (twitter.com/_/status/469284981701767170)
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@dav RT @t: Twitter @Safety vulnerability! If cell service @ATT, REMOVE phone# in profile @x @j compromised http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-05-21-twitter-j-compromised.png (ttk.me t4WB1) (twitter.com/_/status/469285944147705857)
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tantek looks like @j got her account back but all the previous tweets are still deleted :(
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tantek is making all of KevinMarks's device beep and bleep during Quiet Writing Hour. >:)
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tantek s/device/devices
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Loqi tantek meant to say: is making all of KevinMarks's devices beep and bleep during Quiet Writing Hour. >:)
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aaronparecki.com edited /distributed-indieauth () "(-2690) stub outline with links to related pages" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/469255534307049472/469285944147705857 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-05-21-twitter-j-compromised.png (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/469255534307049472/469285375840907265 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-05-21-twitter-j-compromised.png (webmention)
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aaronpk heading to conference room to set up camera
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@snarshad RT @t: Twitter @Safety vulnerability! If cell service @ATT, REMOVE phone# in profile @x @j compromised http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-05-21-twitter-j-compromised.png (ttk.me t4WB1) (twitter.com/_/status/469289492218519552)
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kylewm @schnarfed's alter ego ^^
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GWG Who is @J?
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GWG Someone in here?
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KartikPrabhu GWG: i don't think so
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GWG Ok
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GWG All the single letters know each other?
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kylewm GWG: if they don't, twitter sure thinks they do, when you start following @t it recommends all the others in "people you might no"
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kylewm know*
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/469255534307049472/469289492218519552 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-05-21-twitter-j-compromised.png (webmention)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if you have anything new, put your hand up and we'll talk about it - SF or Portland (twitter.com/_/status/469291654059671553)
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GWG kylewm: I noticed
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if you're an AT&T cellphone account user, people can create an account there and see your SMSs, and have stolen @j @x accounts (twitter.com/_/status/469291928455245825)
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GWG I'm sure @t and @u hang out all the time.
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if you report a security bug to AT&T they ask you to file a police report for identity theft (twitter.com/_/status/469292069992017921)
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aaronpk please make sure to speak into the mic closely
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: I'm Ben, formerly of idno, which is now @withknown and I'm the CEO - we're the first indieweb company (twitter.com/_/status/469292312041099264)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: what we really need is to talk to people interested in indieweb, owning your own data, but not tehcnical - talk to us. (twitter.com/_/status/469292425144705024)
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@benwerd RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @benwerd: what we really need is to talk to people interested in indieweb, owning your own data, but not tehcnica… (twitter.com/_/status/469292556090474496)
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KevinMarks_ who is speaking?
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aaronpk alex linkser
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aaronpk: I've been documenting IndieAuth and putting tools for it together so other people can make sense of it (twitter.com/_/status/469292674919702528)
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@Johannes_Ernst RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @benwerd: what we really need is to talk to people interested in indieweb, owning your own data, but not tehcnica… (twitter.com/_/status/469292708003975168)
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aaronpk http://alexlinsker.com/
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KevinMarks_ speaker?
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tantek Darren?
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tantek aaronpk ^^^ ?
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @alexlinkser: I am looking into teaching people about technloogy (twitter.com/_/status/469292925869121536)
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benwerd Darin
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aaronpk speaker: psyhigh.com
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/469270155575312385/2319275256 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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@BillSeitz RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @aaronpk: I've been documenting IndieAuth and putting tools for it together so other people can make sense of it (twitter.com/_/status/469293022102835200)
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aaronpk paulmunday.net up now
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npdoty regrets that I couldn't be there tonight
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npdoty ... but I just want to say that I think the quiet writing hour is a great idea and I can't wait to join in on that next week
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@BillSeitz RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @benwerd: I'm Ben, formerly of idno, which is now @withknown and I'm the CEO - we're the first indieweb company (twitter.com/_/status/469293150851186688)
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aaronpk since he was here last, has been wokring on his site, ripped out all the specific things to his own site and now published it on github
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tantek npdoty - every two weeks :)
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KevinMarks_ lean into the mic portland, can't hear
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aaronpk source code: https://github.com/tallus/monomatapa
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npdoty tantek, blast, I think I'm out of town in two weeks
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tantek npdoty - see indiewebcamp.com/events for upcoming events :)
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@benwerd At Homebrew Website Club. @johannes_ernst is discussing the Indie Box crowdfunding campaign: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/indie-box-let-s-bring-our-data-home #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/469293653848903680)
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aaronpk will bring his table mic next time so it's in the middle of the table not at the end
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @Johannes_Ernst: IndieBox is a home server that has a geek mode and a human mode - http://indieboxproject.org/blog/ (twitter.com/_/status/469293975137157120)
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@Johannes_Ernst RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @Johannes_Ernst: IndieBox is a home server that has a geek mode and a human mode - http://indieboxproject.org/blog/ (twitter.com/_/status/469294073447059457)
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@Johannes_Ernst RT @benwerd: At Homebrew Website Club. @johannes_ernst is discussing the Indie Box crowdfunding campaign: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/indie-box-let-s-bring-our-data-home #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/469294087871283200)
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tantek aaronpk - please note name, URL, twitter handle :)
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@indieboxproject RT @benwerd: At Homebrew Website Club. @johannes_ernst is discussing the Indie Box crowdfunding campaign: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/indie-box-let-s-bring-our-data-home #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/469294158490779648)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @Johannes_Ernst: as the box is quite expensive, I want to set up a virtual Indie box for people on Amazon, and need help with that (twitter.com/_/status/469294181283016705)
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@indieboxproject RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @Johannes_Ernst: IndieBox is a home server that has a geek mode and a human mode - http://indieboxproject.org/blog/ (twitter.com/_/status/469294188433915904)
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KevinMarks_ what was URL?
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tantek aaronpk ^^^
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tantek … found IndieWebCamp via Aral Balkan
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tall_paul martelles.com
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KevinMarks_ Apple's attitude to having your own site hasn't changed much: http://epeus.blogspot.com/2003/08/how-i-emailed-myself-into-job-and.html
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tantek … if you want a different web, you have to build it
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KevinMarks_ what was his name?
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tantek Matt
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tantek (now speaking)
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tantek … has a personal website
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tantek … background in realtime 3d graphics algorithms
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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tantek … does a lot of C++
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tantek … this web thing is kind of cool
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tantek … just figuring out how to get a simple image gallery going
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@kevinmarks #indieweb Matt Martelles: I left my job 'cos my old employer was very draconian about websites. If you want a better web you have to build i (twitter.com/_/status/469295065974984704)
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KevinMarks_ hi psyhigh
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tantek Ben Morrow
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tantek … has a personal website
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KevinMarks_ Ben Morrow childoftv.com I edit it in google docs using a spreadsheet and some arhcaic XSLT
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tantek … hooked up to a Google Docs UI
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tantek with PHP and XSLT
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benwerd was that "Dark Pirate" or "Duck Pirate"? Both are awesome
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benwerd ohhhhh
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tantek dotpirate.ninja
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aaronpk oh my
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@kevinmarks #indieweb Ben Morrow: my site is http://www.childoftv.com/ I edit it in google docs using a spreadsheet and some archaic XSLT (twitter.com/_/status/469295662727983105)
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tantek Kate
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@kevinmarks #indieweb Ben Morrow: I also bought http://dotpirate.ninja recently (twitter.com/_/status/469295732152094720)
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tantek … used to work for Facebook
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kylewm http://www.katelosse.tv/
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tantek … wrote a book about that
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benwerd http://domains.ninja/ if anyone's as interested as I am
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aaronpk "I'm here right now because I realized my favorite platform is writing on my own website"
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @katelosse: My site is katelosse.tv - I used to work at facebook and wrote a book about that. (twitter.com/_/status/469295875802791937)
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tantek … both working at FB, and writing a book, I found that you're subordinate to others in your publishing
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @katelosse: now I most enjoy writing on my own site and want to own that -both facebook and being a book author constrains you (twitter.com/_/status/469296006392455170)
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tantek Zach!
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benwerd http://www.zackfischmann.com/
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tantek Zack Fischmann
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@benwerd .@katelosse: "I'm here right now because I realized my favorite platform is writing on my own website." +1 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/469296262689202176)
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jjuran <-- <http://www.jjuran.org/>, main site: <http://www.metamage.com/>, Portable distributed programming system: <http://www.fornaxis.org/>
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@kevinmarks #indieweb Zack Fischmann: I have http://www.zackfischmann.com and I'm here to work on new projects with people (twitter.com/_/status/469296360865669120)
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psyhigh http://marmalademountain.bandcamp.com/ is actually really great
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @Johannes_Ernst: This word Indie is claimed by lots of people for different things - is there a way to decide how to use this (twitter.com/_/status/469296553824645120)
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benwerd (Looking forward to the "indie" discussion. Gave an entire pitch yesterday without using the word once. Now think it wasn't a good idea.)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @andigalpern: I do event hosting for UX nights - I want to work on a blog to share information, I want to write without worrying (twitter.com/_/status/469296918666182656)
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GWG benwerd: I heard that.
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@Mike_Hendley RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @Johannes_Ernst: IndieBox is a home server that has a geek mode and a human mode - http://indieboxproject.org/blog/ (twitter.com/_/status/469297023066574849)
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KevinMarks_ I didn't hear that
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KartikPrabhu Zack Fischmann: nice website. you should blog there instead of on blogspot :)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: earlier today in Dusseldorf there was a session on IndieMark - I want to talk about improving http://indiewebcamp.com/indiemark (twitter.com/_/status/469297363245629440)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2014-05-21-hwc-screen.jpg]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+37) "/* Photos */ add screenshot of video link" (view diff)
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upon2020.com edited /Indie_Box (+419) "added some more flesh" (view diff)
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@search8engine RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb Ben Morrow: my site is http://www.childoftv.com/ I edit it in google docs using a spreadsheet and some archaic XSLT (twitter.com/_/status/469298131377864704)
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psyhigh let's put this on the speakers: http://marmalademountain.bandcamp.com/track/telegraph-avenue
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tantek Ben Morrow asked me which apps I'm using for communication without a phone # - here's a screenshot (and the URLs to construct them :) ) http://tantek.com/2014/084/b1/urls-people-focused-mobile-communication
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tantek welcome childoftv
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childoftv cool
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tantek AKA Ben Morrow
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tantek see https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/today :)
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alexlinsker.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+124) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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alexlinsker.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+6) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - that worked really well to not just do general intros by everyone
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tantek and only do intros for new people
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tantek we should put that on the wiki or something
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tantek do we have a "how to run a homebrew website club meetup" section?
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alexlinsker.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+4) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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childoftv Hey so @tantek how did you come to choose using in ipod for this...also is there a way to get an un-network-paired firefox phone?
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KevinMarks_ does it work for the new people though? they don't know who we all are
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alexlinsker.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (-27) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ yes, you can buy firefox phones without a sim, I got one on ebay
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tantek childoftv: FirefoxOS phones here in the US are *only* unlocked :)
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tantek KevinMarks: I think it does by only cognitively loading them up with a few other new people to learn at first
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tantek and incrementally more over time
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tantek hearing everyone's name = forgetting nearly everyone's name
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childoftv awesome. I'd love to unpair from various services and for example share private keys with friends to comm on a personally secured channel...no idea re the legality
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+1) "/* RSVP */ fix bullet placement" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/469270155575312385/18615231 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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tantek childoftv - re: how did I come to chose an ipod for this: see: http://tantek.com/2014/006/t2/ipod-wifi-mifi-works-iamnotanumber-nophone-future
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psyhigh.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+61) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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childoftv https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z133vvygwpzxc3co404cchobnq3wzl25jik ipython live multiuser interactive python notebooks hosted in chrome
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childoftv (not available yet ...but ipython notebooks generally are http://ipython.org/notebook.html)
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childoftv it's increasingly becoming *the* platform for technical blog posts
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psyhigh.com created /User:Psyhigh.com (+222) "Created page with " psyhigh.com[http://psyhigh.com] is the public website for Psychic High School. The dev site starts at psyhigh.biz/welcome [http://psyhigh.biz/welcome]. Looking for a platform ..."" (view diff)
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raph_m How about the Julia programming language? Any thoughts on that? I'm seeing some technical work being done with iJulia: https://github.com/JuliaLang/IJulia.jl :)
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@kartik_prabhu Officially going to @indiewebcamp NYC! @craigmod you should come if you're around @jeremyzilar is hosting. see: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014 (twitter.com/_/status/469303851695108097)
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raph_m Here in PDX, we are seeing a demo of how easy it is to install "wiki" (npm install -g wiki).
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childoftv re Julia I've liked what I've seen but the community is much smaller than python (which has pros and cons)
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aaronpk almost easy, but my npm is apparently not set up quite right
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raph_m Wiki github is: https://github.com/fedwiki/wiki-node-server
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raph_m Julia community is definitely smaller now. I see it gaining momentum, given that you can call python very easily. :)
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psyhigh.com edited /User:Psyhigh.com (+139) (view diff)
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psyhigh.com edited /User:Psyhigh.com (+38) (view diff)
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@GiseleEve webmention /entry/5702949112119296 (twitter.com/_/status/469306431867723776)
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@GiseleEve webmention /entry/5116102497533952 (twitter.com/_/status/469306434162024448)
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@GiseleEve webmention /entry/5729564890234880 (twitter.com/_/status/469306435621621761)
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aaronpk pdx is wrapping up!
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aaronpk bye san francisco!
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psyhigh bye bye SF!
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tantek hey PDX folks - take a PHOTO!
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@AxelNennker RT @benwerd: At Homebrew Website Club. @johannes_ernst is discussing the Indie Box crowdfunding campaign: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/indie-box-let-s-bring-our-data-home #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/469336143235125248)
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kylewm hit kind of a dead end on my hashtag idea … can't think of a way to do it without a central server collecting all the tags, which starts to feel very silo-like
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rascul what is your hashtag idea?
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kylewm i wanted to use webmentions to notify some server that i'd tagged a thing... <a href="http://indie-tags.net/foobar">#foobar</a>. It'd receive the webmention and aggregate all the tags from everyone talking about that thing
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rascul ooo
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kylewm i started writing about it during "quiet writing hour" and accidentally spammed IRC with 20% written my draft copy :)
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rascul hehe
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kylewm s/20% written my/my 20% written/
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Loqi kylewm meant to say: i started writing about it during "quiet writing hour" and accidentally spammed IRC with my 20% written draft copy :)
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: successfully switched to mf2util for parsing comments :)
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kylewm Whoa really??? that's awesome!
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KartikPrabhu the date parsing is much better than anything I could have done!
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kylewm that makes me really happy. definitely let me know if any issues you have with it or changes you make/want
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: I will add some "safe defaults" i.e. if the page has no microformats then some default values could be parsed from the HTML but that might not belong in mf2util
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kylewm oh yeah that'd be very cool, I would certainly use it
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+6) "/* Photos */ shrink photo" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://kartikprabhu.com/notes/IWC-2014 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014 (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu hi indie-visitor: use /nick yourname to change your nick
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warScout thanks haha
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KartikPrabhu welcome warScout
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warScout hey..how do you link to this in mIRC?
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KartikPrabhu you mean link to the IRC?
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warScout to this specific forum...sorry I am super new at this...haven't been on IRC in like 15 years
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aaronpk that's a common theme around here :)
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KartikPrabhu warScout: never used mIRC... sorry. I am also new to IRC and have only used 1 client so far :P
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warScout yeah I can imagine...hmmm..okay thank KartickPrabhu....I will continue trying see if I can connect through mIRC...if anyone has any guidance that would be awesome
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bear warScout: https://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml
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bear warScout: also general help for mIRC http://www.mirc.com/install.html
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warScout okay cool...I'll check it out thank you
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bear warScout: and lastly http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC
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bear hope that helps
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aaronparecki.com edited /rel-me (+30) "improve dfn" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com created /rel=me (+19) "r" (view diff)
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@andigalpern The web is your playground. Go play! @t @kevinmarks @erinjo @katelosse @generic_brian @MozSF #indieweb https://twitter.com/andigalpern/status/469354917602131968/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/469354917602131968)
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@kevinmarks RT @andigalpern: The web is your playground. Go play! @t @kevinmarks @erinjo @katelosse @generic_brian @MozSF #indieweb http://t.co/9MU0VIu… (twitter.com/_/status/469355001601470464)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @andigalpern: The web is your playground. Go play! @t @kevinmarks @erinjo @katelosse @generic_brian @MozSF #indieweb http://t.co/9MU0VIu… (twitter.com/_/status/469355194913128449)
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@cascadesf RT @andigalpern: The web is your playground. Go play! @t @kevinmarks @erinjo @katelosse @generic_brian @MozSF #indieweb http://t.co/9MU0VIu… (twitter.com/_/status/469355457304592384)
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KartikPrabhu is that today's HWC SF group?
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aaronpk oh nice!
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aaronpk i forgot to get a real phooto of pdx today
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aaronpk but i got a screencap of the video link
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KartikPrabhu better than nothign
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KartikPrabhu sorry there was no HWC Chicago. 50% of the people were busy!
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@kyle_wm RT @andigalpern: The web is your playground. Go play! @t @kevinmarks @erinjo @katelosse @generic_brian @MozSF #indieweb http://t.co/9MU0VIu… (twitter.com/_/status/469356161805074433)
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@kyle_wm RT @andigalpern: The web is your playground. Go play! @t @kevinmarks @erinjo @katelosse @generic_brian @MozSF #indieweb http://t.co/9MU0VIu… (twitter.com/_/status/469356586490535936)
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@kevinmarks RT @benwerd: .@katelosse: "I'm here right now because I realized my favorite platform is writing on my own website." +1 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/469356912140886016)
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aaronpk need more micropub clients
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aaronpk who's up for making a sweet looking note posting interface or something
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aaronpk thinking about two-factor auth at a nano level, requiring human confirmation before any client can actually post to your site via your micropub endpoint
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aaronpk e.g. I sign in to barnaby's experimental Taproot interface but don't trust it entirely yet. Instead of giving him blanket access to post to my site, every time his app makes a request to my micropub endpoint, it goes and asks me for confiramtion before publishing
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@joshuajuran RT @andigalpern: The web is your playground. Go play! @t @kevinmarks @erinjo @katelosse @generic_brian @MozSF #indieweb http://t.co/9MU0VIu… (twitter.com/_/status/469358140996476928)
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aaronpk either OOB confirmation (2-factor auth via SMS or something) or an oauth-link confirmation dialog from the same browser
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aaronparecki.com edited /distributed-indieauth (+344) "description" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: what kind? web? micropubbing is on my agend of the near future. May work on that at IWC-East
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aaronpk probably web cause it's easier. i just need more examples I can reference
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aaronpk also I gotta finish this stuff faster so I can explore things like this two-factor auth idea
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KartikPrabhu I suppose I must have a micropub endpoint before all that happens... :) will work towards that for the near future
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aaronpk indeed :)
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aaronpk your own micropub endpoint is the first step. but you can use tokens.indieauth.com to jumpstart it
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aaronpk my irc ramblings have a URL now http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/05/21/2/indieauth-micropub-2fa
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KartikPrabhu cool. added to research tab group :)
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@benwerd RT @andigalpern: The web is your playground. Go play! @t @kevinmarks @erinjo @katelosse @generic_brian @MozSF #indieweb http://t.co/9MU0VIu… (twitter.com/_/status/469360100067794944)
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KartikPrabhu I don't like Django's admin interface so having my own has been a goal I'm working towards
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aaronpk and I don't like the idea of interfaces being locked into a single site
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aaronpk like why should p3k's posting interface be limited to posting to p3k sites
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KartikPrabhu true! I like the idea of micropub for sure
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KartikPrabhu someday there'll be a mobile app for it or something
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@benwerd @harsh545555 Webmentions are still there! It works really well with https://www.brid.gy/ (twitter.com/_/status/469360581820956672)
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KartikPrabhu actually a webpage is good enough now that I think about it
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aaronpk yeah you can go pretty far with just a web page
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aaronpk i still trust native apps more for certain things. like offline posting.
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aaronpk anyway i'm off for the night
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KartikPrabhu hmm I should too... gnight!
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/withknown/418912563699519489/10402702 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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@zackfischmann RT @andigalpern: The web is your playground. Go play! @t @kevinmarks @erinjo @katelosse @generic_brian @MozSF #indieweb http://t.co/9MU0VIu… (twitter.com/_/status/469367698808254464)
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michielbdejong Re http://indiewebcamp.com/CORS - this would be very useful for client-side IndieReaders like https://dogfeed.5apps.com/. I would rely on CORS to poll the rss feeds of people I folllow if all of them had CORS headers. But since >=1 of them don't, I proxy these requests through sockethub instead.
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michielbdejong So there is a critical mass problem there.
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michielbdejong This means nobody reads other people's websites over CORS, which in turn means there is no benefit (that I know of) of one single website offering CORS headers.
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michielbdejong cc binbasti
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michielbdejong I currently only support CORS on the admin interface of my website, not on the public interface.
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michielbdejong (the admin interface is simply editing the files via the remoteStorage protocol)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+108) "/* Photos */ tweet and image from andi" (view diff)
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@glennjones Playing with #indieweb backfeed idea - automatic pulling replies/activity etc from twitter - http://indiewebcamp.com/backfeed (twitter.com/_/status/469406296887001088)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/glennjones/469406296887001088/469411728284221440 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/backfeed (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/glennjones/469406296887001088/469427823678357504 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/backfeed (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/glennjones/469406296887001088/469433603878043648 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/backfeed (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/glennjones/469406296887001088/469435396016062464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/backfeed (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/glennjones/469406296887001088/469433733557129216 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/backfeed (webmention)
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binbasti michielbdejong: reg. dogfeed: yes, but you could also use a proxy, like the one we have for 5apps Deploy accounts, so your code for parsing the feed/microdata etc is already the same as if you could access everything with cors enabled. in fact, you could then fall back to a proxy automatically, depending on if you get access to the resource or not (not 100% sure about this one, because browsers are intentionally quiet/unclear about cors errors)
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binbasti in any case, i don't see a single reason for not making content accessible from client-side js apps
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binbasti except for when you use session cookies of course
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paulmunday.net uploaded /File:paul_m_as_a_ladybird.jpg "A picture of paulmunday.net"
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paulmunday.net edited /User:Paulmunday.net (+41) (view diff)
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paulmunday.net edited /2014/Guest_List (+233) "/* West */ added user:paulmunday.net" (view diff)
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sebastian.kip.pe created /User:Sebastian.kip.pe (+69) "Created page with "<span class="h-card">[http://sebastian.kip.pe Sebastian Kippe]</span>"" (view diff)
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sebastian.kip.pe edited /IRC_People (+0) "Correct sort order" (view diff)
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paulmunday.net edited /2014/Guest_List (+7) "/* West */ fixed image" (view diff)
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snarfed KevinMarks: i take it twig got published last night? got a ton of new bridgy signups
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@CalebXanadu Fragmentions: link/refer to an arbitrary text in a web page http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention (twitter.com/_/status/469485805325398016)
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dissolve snarfed, if he doesn't answer i'll be able to tell you soon enough, I'm listening back now
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snarfed dissolve: cool, thanks
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dissolve oh that reminds me. barnabywalters, I got you there too now http://benthatmustbeme.tumblr.com/post/86506014156/barnaby-walters-shows-up-now-too
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barnabywalters dissolve: oh cool! my rocketry is invading your phone :)
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barnabywalters thanks for documenting this, dissolve!
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kylewm barnabywalters: do you have a couple minutes to help figure out why i can't get hooked up with the taproot micropub interface? it's ok if not :)
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barnabywalters kylewm: will do in a minute, just doing work stuff
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kylewm work stuff takes precedence!
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barnabywalters kylewm: okay, long batch task started, how can I help you?
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kylewm barnabywalters: so I'm able to log in on waterpigs.co.uk, and from my logs it looks like I get as far as sending an access token
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kylewm but then in /notes/new, it says "welcome guest" and doesn't seem to recognize that i have micropub
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kylewm wondering if i have something misconfugred
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barnabywalters kylewm: looking into it
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barnabywalters kylewm: in my logs I see a successfully discovered micropub endpoint, so it’s possible I broke something when I extracted my indieauth code into a separate library
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kylewm barnabywalters: ah gotcha, thanks for looking into it. i'm happy to test it again whenever if you'd like :)
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barnabywalters kylewm: can you try logging out and back in again?
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kylewm barnabywalters: yep, doing now
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benwerd Good morning indieweb
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kylewm barnabywalters: logged in
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@superfeedr What's #RSS in the #indiewebcamp community?Indie-feeds! http://blog.superfeedr.com/indiefeeds/ (twitter.com/_/status/469504433072504833)
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kylewm barnabywalters: I think it used to say (kylewm.com [log out]), not it just says ([log out])
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@julien51 RT @superfeedr: What's #RSS in the #indiewebcamp community?Indie-feeds! http://blog.superfeedr.com/indiefeeds/ (twitter.com/_/status/469504515557711873)
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kylewm morning benwerd!
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barnabywalters afternoon benwerd
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barnabywalters kylewm: hrm, looks like it’s still not working
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barnabywalters I know why it’s failing, but not the cause
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barnabywalters in my logs for your requests, I see:
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barnabywalters Request has indieauth token {"token":{"access_token":"Unlogged string of length 251","scope":"['post']","me":"http://kylewm.com","micropub_endpoint":"http://kylewm.com/api/micropub"}}
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barnabywalters whereas for mine, I see:
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barnabywalters Request has indieauth token {"token":{"me":"http://waterpigs.co.uk","scope":"post","access_token":"Unlogged string of length 528","micropub_endpoint":"http://waterpigs.co.uk/"}}
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barnabywalters note the difference in the scope parameter
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barnabywalters mine is a string, yours appears to be a JSON-serialized array
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kylewm ohhh, yeah I have all sorts of trouble with that scope parameter
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barnabywalters I believe the spec requires it to be a space-separated string
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barnabywalters which is what my code is expecting
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kylewm OK I will try that
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kylewm barnabywalters: it worked!!
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barnabywalters kylewm: awesome!
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kylewm thanks very much for helping me sort that out
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barnabywalters kylewm: not a problem! I’m going to add some helpful debuggin output available for people using micropub
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kylewm that's what you get for having the only public client other than OYG ;)
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@BarnabyWalters Any #silex devs who want to add #indieauth sign-in or micropub to their applications? Take a look at… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4WCGeR/ (twitter.com/_/status/469517909127987200)
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barnabywalters kylewm: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/new should now have a little debugging box at the bottom — let me know if there’s anything else in there which would be useful or would have been useful whilst debugging
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aaronpk kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 13 karma
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aaronpk barnabywalters++
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Loqi barnabywalters has 40 karma
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aaronpk nice work on that micropub stuff
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@whaity @indiewebcamp How do you get stickers?? (twitter.com/_/status/469525819619291137)
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@aaronpk @whaity Come to a homebrew website club or @indiewebcamp event! http://indiewebcamp.com/events (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/05/22/1/indiewebcamp) (twitter.com/_/status/469526033268350977)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/05/22/1/indiewebcamp linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/05/22/1/indiewebcamp linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu "RSS is all about interroperability: it’s probably only second to HTML when it comes to decoupling dataformats." from: http://blog.superfeedr.com/indiefeeds/
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: julien's in sf right now, i met w/him yesterday
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snarfed we talked about an interesting idea. superfeedr could start attempting to send webmentions for every link in every post that it sees
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KartikPrabhu it could! What is the superfeedr attitude towards h-feed?
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snarfed he said they get about 1kqps of new posts, so estimating say average of 5 links per post, that'd be 5kqps of webmentions steady state, which is pretty big
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snarfed he's obviously friendly toward all of this. i think he feels strongly about feed formats, but also strongly about the indieweb community, so i doubt he'd get religious about mf2/h-feed vs rss/atom
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: but if most of those websites don't support webmentions then what is the point of sending them?
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: that is a good attitude :)
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snarfed oh you're right, the vast majority wouldn't, but it'd be a big help on the sending side of the adoption problem
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@whaity @IndieWebCampUK hello any news on indiewebuk 2014? Need any help? (twitter.com/_/status/469528613168349184)
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snarfed you need both sending and receiving, and even a bump in one side would be good
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KartikPrabhu sure... just the fact that superfeedr supports it might make more people aware and interested
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@whaity @aaronpk waiting to see if there will be a @indiewebcampuk this year (twitter.com/_/status/469528883034079233)
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snarfed bridgy's support for tumblr/blogger/wp.com is similar, but the problem is it's opt in per blog. this would automatically start sending them for a huge number of sites, without requiring any changes to the sites themselves, which would be awesome
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snarfed would take a lot of resources up front to do discovery for all of those sites, but that would settle down if you cache with a long ttl
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/aaronpk/469526033268350977/469528883034079233 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu true
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voxpelli Not sure I think it's a good idea to send webmentions for sites not sending them themselves - I think it should be opt in to send them
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KartikPrabhu hmm voxpelli if the webmention endpoint is not found then no mention is sent anyway
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voxpelli I would rather only receive webmentions from people intentionally sending them rather than from anyone who just links to me from their blog entry
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voxpelli At least at this point
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KartikPrabhu but webmentions are supposed to be sent for all links in a blog anyway
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KartikPrabhu and many people automate them
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voxpelli Are they? Says who? What's the purpose?
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KartikPrabhu voxpelli: http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#Which_links_should_receive_webmentions
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KartikPrabhu the purpose is to notify that some post was linked to from another one. The receiver can choose to ignore it if it was a simple mention. I note simple "mentions" under the "Mentions" section below my posts
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snarfed voxpelli: intent is tricky to determine
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voxpelli KartikPrabhu: I would focus more on the "mention" part of that description - I think mentioning is an active act rather than something you passively do by just linking. That there's a difference between linking and mentioning
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snarfed e.g. many servers and blog providers automatically send trackbacks or pingbacks, and most of their users have no idea that those even exist, much less that their sites are sending them
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snarfed so did those users "intent" to send them? hard to say
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snarfed s/intent/intend/
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Loqi snarfed meant to say: so did those users "intend" to send them? hard to say
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aaronpk the original goal of webmention was a faster notification of a link to a site
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aaronpk so the actual payload itself is not that significant
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aaronpk that's why there's only source and target parameters and no data is actually sent
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voxpelli I would say that it is too early to deploy just the pinging on a massive scale - that such a move could do more harm than good
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aaronpk it'll definitely prompt people to deal with spam real quick
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snarfed exactly
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KartikPrabhu voxpelli: harm as in?
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aaronpk but think about it this way, at any point, anybody can start sending webmentions on behalf of other people
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snarfed if scale will bring harm, we might as well start discovering that harm and addressing it now
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voxpelli The pinging without any additional data also won't give much of an advantage over ping back
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voxpelli Scale brings harm because scale means that it's harder to bring about changes
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aaronpk the webmention protocol itself is not supposed to be very different from pingback, just easier to use
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voxpelli we're still discovering new needs for it though - like the discovery of a-tags - and bigger scale makes things harder to change - makes you less agile
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snarfed voxpelli++ for scale implying higher priority on backward compatibility
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Loqi voxpelli has 2 karma
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snarfed good point
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voxpelli And from a PR point it's much less easy to make a case for webmentions without pairing it with mf2 metadata - so big pushes should have both for increased likelihood of success
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aaronpk not even just from a PR point. webmentions are way more useful with mf2 data
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gRegor` Welcome, whaity
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snarfed hey, gRegor`'s here. gRegor`, just curious, did you notice the fix for https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/133 ?
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snarfed interested whether it now works for your use case
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gRegor` Hey snarfed. Probably not yet
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gRegor` been out of the loop :) I'll take a look.
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snarfed np! not urgent
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@withknown Why we believe in the #indieweb http://stream.withknown.com/2014/why-we-believe-in-the-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/469533993839251457)
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gRegor` Ooh, nice.
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Loqi [mention] http://stream.withknown.com/2014/why-we-believe-in-the-indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://stream.withknown.com/2014/why-we-believe-in-the-indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/why (webmention)
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@benwerd Why we believe in the #indieweb, over on the @withknown stream: http://stream.withknown.com/2014/why-we-believe-in-the-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/469534222277824515)
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gRegor` Looks like it works! http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbrid-gy.appspot.com%2Fcomment%2Ftwitter%2FgRegorLove%2F461318984592150528%2F461319357659099138
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snarfed heh, yeah, i knew it worked on bridgy's end. i was curious if that means you can now do what you originally wanted to do with it
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gRegor` I wasn't sure if it would be retroactive.
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gRegor` Should work. I'll just pull the webmention again
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snarfed great!
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@kevinmarks RT @benwerd: Why we believe in the #indieweb, over on the @withknown stream: http://stream.withknown.com/2014/why-we-believe-in-the-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/469536622191448065)
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@Nymble_Me RT @benwerd: Why we believe in the #indieweb, over on the @withknown stream: http://stream.withknown.com/2014/why-we-believe-in-the-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/469536963737841665)
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aaronpk beginning to think that one git commit per webmention is a bit much :)
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snarfed aaronpk: for popular sites, yes
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aaronpk well for amber's in particular right now
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snarfed vcses aren't exactly the best backend for scaling data volume
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snarfed s/aren't exactly the best/are maybe the worst/
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Loqi snarfed meant to say: vcses are maybe the worst backend for scaling data volume
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rascul what could be better?
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aaronpk mine doesn't look as ridiculous as hers right now
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snarfed rascul: um. anything? filesystem, db, nosql
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aaronpk multiple webmentions per git commit
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rascul i see
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aaronpk i might just set it up on a timer or something, so it'll wait 10 minutes to accumulate mentions before making a commit. that way at least this wouldn't happen: https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2919/14242810281_df232ee71c_o.png
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snarfed yup, batching is often a quick fix, as long as you don't sacrifice persistence
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tantek KartikPrabhu: note that he doesn't mention Atom, which, being specified more clearly/strictly/precisely, has more interop than RSS
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yup! I did notice that
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aaronpk I think most people don't care about the difference between RSS and Atom, and use RSS to refer to both
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tantek and renaming "RSS feeds" to "Indie feeds" is just bikeshedding
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tantek it's meaningless
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tantek aaronpk - hah - not those still hurting from the RSS/Atom wars
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tantek who are the loudest voices when it comes to both
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aaronpk most people don't remember the rss/atom wars
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KartikPrabhu what is bikeshedding?
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tantek aaronpk the silent majority doesn't care about RSS/Atom
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tantek nevermind the difference
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tantek KartikPrabhu: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bikeshedding
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tantek (typically renaming things (arguing about) rather than actually doing anything meaningful)
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aaronpk also I didn't take his post as a renaming of RSS feeds, more like acknowledging there are more feeds than just RSS
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KartikPrabhu tantek: got it!
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tantek so this: "RSS is all about interroperability" is false. RSS is all about errantly focusing on plumbing instead of user experience.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: i can be argued that all formats are focus on plumbing instead of UX
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KartikPrabhu s/i can/it can
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: tantek: it can be argued that all formats are focus on plumbing instead of UX
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gRegor` Which post are you guys talking about?
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KartikPrabhu http://blog.superfeedr.com/indiefeeds/ gregor`
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tantek KartikPrabhu: "it can be argued" is weasel wording. If you have a specific argument, make it.
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shaners tantek KartikPrabhu: ABORT! ABORT!
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dissolve by the way snarfed, bridgy was his pick of the week type of thing
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snarfed dissolve: on twig?
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KartikPrabhu shaners: ??
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dissolve yeah
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snarfed that explains the spike of new users then
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/aaronpk/469526033268350977/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events (webmention)
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snarfed great!
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dissolve http://twit.tv/show/this-week-in-google/250 at about 1:45
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snarfed thanks
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kylewm this might be a dumb question, but why is it called the week in Google?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I am saying that arguing about which format is better is futile without people having done something with it which includes UX/UI . Afaik on the writing/publishing end RSS UX is sort of sucky and h-feed is better. On the consuming end RSS/Atom UX is better just because of a lot of reader support. (I think we are basically agreeing :) )
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KartikPrabhu shaners: don't worry I like arguing with tantek ;)
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tantek.com created /weasel_word (+534) "stub with defn, citation, see also" (view diff)
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dissolve kylewm twit does a bunch of stuff like this week in microsoft, this week in android, etc. In theory its all about google, but really they just talk about whatever half the time
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tantek.com created /weasel_wording (+25) "r" (view diff)
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shaners KartikPrabhu: arguing is a waste of time. go build.
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KevinMarks I resemble this: http://imgur.com/p0Mya7m
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KartikPrabhu good idea :)
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kylewm thanks dissolve
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KartikPrabhu lol KevinMarks :)
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tantek shaners, arguing can be worth the time in a community when used to reduce the occurrences of repeated noise-threads which distract from building.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I wasn't debating which format was better (strawman) - not sure where you got that.
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shaners tantek: i've seen you have this same argument before. if you haven't, you should capture your thoughts into a wiki page and just point to that.
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tantek I was precise: RSS (format, "community" (if there even is one), proponents) are all about errantly focusing on plumbing instead of user experience.
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tantek shaners - if you've seen the same argument before, please provide the citation. happy to wikify it to reduce future recurrences.
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KartikPrabhu aah! yes agreed :)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: the only way I've found out of that mess is to reduce engagements with (i.e. even quoting/linking) people/communities that are plumbing-focused.
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tantek and instead, focus on building a design/UX-first community, tools (selfdogfood), and *then* formats/protocols which support those two.
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KartikPrabhu because engaging leads to more plumbing arguments?
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tantek right
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tantek plumbers can argue endlessly about plumbing because they're not grounded in any form of user experience / human use-cases.
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tantek so it is futile to argue with plumbers about plumbing. I mean, unless you just want practice arguing.
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KartikPrabhu ha! I can practice arguing by just prodding you :P
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KevinMarks kylewm: it's called this week in google originally 'cos Jeff wrote What Would Google Do, btu it covers cloud computing and whetever we feel like
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tantek KartikPrabhu: there you go ;)
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KevinMarks so I use it as a place to talk about indieweb among other things
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tantek to me, anyone seriously proposing RSS for anything at this point (especially the start of a discussion) is blind to the fact that RSS evolution has been dead for 10+ years.
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tantek so therefore can be ignored. hasn't evolved for 10+ years, not likely to do so now.
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KevinMarks I gave brid.gy, known and fragmentions a big plug towards the end of the show
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tantek nicely done KevinMarks!
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dissolve yeah KevinMarks, you are talking for quite a while about them
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snarfed KevinMarks: i noticed, lots of new users signed up overnight (and still are). thank you!
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KevinMarks It was supposed to be a 90 minutes show, and I made it run 130 :D
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dissolve thats how I got involved in here
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kylewm tantek: KartikPrabhu: is syndicating to a feed fundamentally different from syndicating to twitter?
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dissolve your mentions on twig slowly drawing people in
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tantek.com edited /reader (+29) "also indie reader" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /indie_reader (+20) "r" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: feed is more like having al alternate version of your site than POSSEing
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gavinc_ What about complaining about the plumbing? Can we bitch about the pipes that require us to have web applications just so a command line too can download our pictures? (OAuth2)
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KevinMarks TWiG (and leo's network in general) has a fairly techy audience
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KevinMarks more so than Gillmor Gang I think
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tantek KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 24 karma
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tantek gavinc_: sure, add an "Issues" or "Criticism" section to any page about any particular plumbing you want and go for it.
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tantek.com created /indiereader (+20) "r" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu hey dissolve: you should ad youself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people :D
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KevinMarks I have a friend looking for someone to interview Python engineers - suggestions?
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: from the publishing side maybe, but as a content consumer, if someone can subscribe to me on twitter or on superfeedr (via a reader), they're more likely to get better content on the latter
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tantek.com created /indie-reader (+20) "r" (view diff)
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dissolve oh, whoa
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tantek who uses Python?
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tantek (hmm, not quite yet Loqi)
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tantek what is Python?
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Loqi Python is a programming language and web server runtime environment used for many IndieWeb projects http://indiewebcamp.com/Python
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ben_thatmustbeme didn't even noticed I was on my other name
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ben_thatmustbeme haha
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Loqi rofl
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KartikPrabhu oh ha!
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ben_thatmustbeme how long has that been
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snarfed KevinMarks: interview them for a job? or for an article or research? or…?
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: as a content consumer the trouble with feeds is that it is purely passive unlike Twitter where you can reply and all that. I am hoping indie-readers + micropub will solve that
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KevinMarks kylewm: reading your tags idea from last night it sounds exactly like technorati's tag crawler
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KevinMarks except we were already pinged by blogs, so didn't require linking to us.
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kylewm KevinMarks: I started writing the post and was like "wait is this just technorati"
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kylewm "just" technorati
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gavinc_ KevinMarks: Same question as snarfed, interview about/for what?
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kylewm haha
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kylewm i meant, "am i suggesting a terrible version of technorati"
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KevinMarks gavinc_: a friend with a startup is recruiting engs, needs a tech interviewer to screen them
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kylewm KevinMarks: i was talking to Julien last night about whether we could subscribe to a track on superfeedr, seems like that mechanism has more potential
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tantek kylewm - your question "syndicating to a feed fundamentally different from syndicating to twitter?" is the best illustration of feed-framing-blinders I have seen
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tantek "feed" is just a format. it's *only* plumbing
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KevinMarks (I'm reading irc history, so expect some time-lagged comments)
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tantek whereas Twitter is an entire site, UX, feature set, user base etc. etc. etc.
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KartikPrabhu yup^^ what tante said
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KartikPrabhu s/tant/tantek
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: yup^^ what tanteke said
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KartikPrabhu <sigh>
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tantek they are so *fundamentally different* that it is *shocking* that you would ask that.
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kylewm tantek: I'm not getting it. couldn't I just say "syndicate to Feedly"?
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kylewm lol
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tantek what is Feedly?
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Loqi feedly is a server-based feed aggregator and reader http://indiewebcamp.com/feedly
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KevinMarks the commonality is cramming one representation into another.
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@libel_vox RT @benwerd: Why we believe in the #indieweb, over on the @withknown stream: http://stream.withknown.com/2014/why-we-believe-in-the-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/469554199236055040)
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tantek kylewm, that's better, because then we can compare Feedly UX and Twitter UX, users, features etc.
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KevinMarks this what is syntax starts to look a bit odd. Makes Tantek look like he's having a socratic dialogue with Loqi.
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tantek socratic-dialogue++
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Loqi socratic-dialogue has 1 karma
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kylewm (was that a genuine "what is" question or an intentional Loqi-query?)
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ben_thatmustbeme my god Kevin you certainly did drag that show out
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tantek kylewm - look at for example how bare the /Feedly page is as compared to the /Twitter page
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: you could say "syndicating to feedly" and that does not depend on your feed format (say), but then what? Feedly does not provide you any way to actively engage with the content (like reply/comment)
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KevinMarks well, they asked for cool things, then I had to explain them...
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tantek that to me says, people in this community don't really care about /Feedly except to warn about its problems
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tantek and if people here *do* care about Feedly, then prove it by adding to the /Feedly page
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KevinMarks aaronpk: reading you comments on micropub from last night, I shoudl get back to making noterlive support ti. Which means making noterlive work again.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I use feedly regularly but I don't really care for it except that it gives me updates. I use it to then go to the actual webpage
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tantek.com edited /Python (+385) "add IndieWeb Examples section so future Loqi can find it" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme Once i get some results of exactly how you need to format things to get your site updates to show up in Google Now, I'll add a wiki page about that
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tantek oops that was not meant to say Minor edit
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tantek what is Google Now?
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ben_thatmustbeme nothing yet
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KevinMarks google now is now sending me desktop notifications via HTML5 notificatiosn in chrome
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: it's very weird to me that you're arguing that feedly doesn't provide a wy to engage with content. The way to engage is to post on your own site and send me a WM
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KevinMarks Daft ones about having to cycle for 5 hours to get to SF, but it's a start
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: because it lets me include a permalink to my actual real post, I think it provides a much better way for people to engage with my content
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tantek.com edited /Google (+132) "notification services Google Alerts, Google now" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: yes! but I don't think that is better UI/UX than Twitter
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ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks, I turned them on but I have yet to see any on desktop. I am getting every update to tantek.com and waterpigs.co.uk now though
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tantek kylewm: feel free to start a "Advantages" section on /Feedly and document that!
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KartikPrabhu For instance this is what a friend asked me on reading my indieweb article: "So once I read your site and want to comment, I have to open a new tab, go to my own site and post there?"
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kartikprabhu.com edited /Python (+11) "/* Kartik Prabhu */ added mf2util" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: it's a reasonable challenge
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tantek commenting / interacting with an indieweb site should be at least as easy if not easier than a silo
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tantek that's the bar we have to meet
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tantek and discussing that kind of thing " once I read your site and want to comment, I have to open a new tab, go to my own site and post there?" is 100x more important than *any* discussion of RSS
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KartikPrabhu yes! and my idea was - have a indie-comment form on a post so that the reader can comment in-place and it uses micropub to post on the reader's own page as a note with in-reply-to
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I'd say keep listening to your friend.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: barnabywalters and I were exploring a "comment" web action
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tantek form in particular
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tantek I think he even got something sort of working with a cross-site iframe?
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KartikPrabhu I made some smart friends in under-grad :P
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KartikPrabhu tantek: interesting... will explore once I have some manner of micropub setup
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KevinMarks can we map micropub to existing posting mechanisms?
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: existing as in?
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tantek a-ha! we did capture it: http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions##Provide%20a%20UI%20for%20indieweb%20users%20to%20comment
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tantek KevinMarks++ for fragmentions once more. dang they're useful.
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Loqi KevinMarks has 33 karma
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KevinMarks JonathanNeal++ for making them actually useful
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Loqi JonathanNeal has 8 karma
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tantek KevinMarks, what existing posting mechanisms?
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KevinMarks hm I think I just recapped an old blog post: http://epeus.blogspot.com/2003/09/how-to-atomize-or-de-atomize.html
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KevinMarks the wordpress/blogger/tumblr posting APIs
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kylewm.com edited /h-feed (+160) "added Superfeedr article about fragment subscriptions" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: since micropub just uses mf2-type semantics, it should be possible to translate it to blogger/wordpress APIs
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tantek.com edited /webactions (+137) "headings for use cases, to better separate them and make them more obvious" (view diff)
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snarfed KevinMarks++ for that blog post
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Loqi KevinMarks has 34 karma
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kylewm tantek: can you explain what "feed-framing-blinders" are?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: sounds like a Bridgy opportunity: provide a micropub endpoint wrapper around blogger/wordpress APIs ;)
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snarfed i have a couple pages of notes about different blog apis, which support multiple providers, etc from when i started implementing webmentions for tumblr/blogger/wp.com
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tantek kylewm - framing - how an idea is described drives it's discussion and thinking about it
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snarfed tantek: sure! sadly i have no interest in building that myself, but i'd definitely consider accepting a PR :P
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tantek feed-framing, short for feed-centric-framing, puts feeds at the center of the discussion (thus errantly putting it above things like UX)
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tantek *-blinders - when the *-centric framing is so strong as to not just neglect other (more important) consideration like UX, but to completely miss them as if they don't exist
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: tantek: bridgy is doing a lot of things! We should not let it become another "silo-like" dependency for the indieweb
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kylewm tantek: thanks :)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: as long as Bridgy is open source you can always run your own instance
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snarfed opensource++
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Loqi opensource has 2 karma
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: tantek means that you are setting up the issue around feeds which is obstructing other ideas etc...
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tantek kylewm - reference for "framing": http://ttk.me/i/i/1931498717
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes, but I feel it should be more modular. But in some sense bridgy is only doing one thing, 'bridging' the gap to the silos so maybe it is ok :)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: would greatly appreciate your additions to http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions#Inline_Comment_UI regarding what your friend asked you
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tantek and any brainstorms you may have e.g. using micropub
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kylewm I don't want to drag this out anymore, but in my defense I was looking at the feed like a feed-reader posting-API ...
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kylewm a non-proprietary API at that (weren't we looking for examples of those the other day?) :)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: will add :)
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tantek !tell barnabywalters KartikPrabhu is interested in how to make inline-commenting work per http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions#Inline_Comment_UI and I remember you had some iframe-based hacks working (or just in mind)? Perhaps time to discuss again!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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KartikPrabhu looks like there are 99 people in IRC now :P
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tantek kylewm - standalone feed readers are a UX dead end
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tantek seriously not worth any more effort IMO
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tantek silos have demonstrated that the path forward with reading UX is *integrated* reading UX
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tantek (integrated reading/writing)
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: I get what you are saying, but feed-readers at the moment don't provide any way to read+write
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tantek KartikPrabhu: hence why they're a dead end
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KartikPrabhu gosh darnnit tantek! stop beating me to the punchline! :P
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tantek KartikPrabhu, kylewm already on the wiki: http://indiewebcamp.com/feed_reader#Lack_of_publishing_integration
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kylewm I take your points
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kylewm seems like an "easy" fix with micropub. go barnabywalters go
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tantek more: http://indiewebcamp.com/indiereader#Why
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JonathanNeal Thanks KevinMarks :)
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: yup that seems to be the idea :D
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tantek KartikPrabhu: your friend's question is a very good framing of the cross-indie-site commenting challenge. Getting that working will make for an incredible demo.
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tantek especially when combined with the realtime comments display stuff that aaronpk has working on his site
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KartikPrabhu tantek: the realtime comment display is really awesome
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tantek it's that kind of UX awesomeness that has *nothing* do with discussing/debating RSS.
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tantek RSS is not only "just" plumbing, it is a tiny little box of the plumbing.
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KartikPrabhu hoping to get the ball rolling on micropub on my site in the coming days, if I have it before IWC-East I might work on the comments thingie in NYC
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KevinMarks that's why Instapaper's update is interesting, as they added highlighting and posting to their reader
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: where is the post posted from Instapaper? do you know?
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KevinMarks tumblr/twitter/facebook/app.net/evernote/pinboard
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: Feedly does that too. allows you to customise your "sharing options" also
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KevinMarks do we have a page for unified reading and writing interfaces?
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tantek KevinMarks: /reader
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KevinMarks in some ways, Atom was more of a monoculture problem than RSS
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KevinMarks 'cos the posting API became a fetish, especially at Google with gdata
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tantek KevinMarks: feel free to document that with examples at /monoculture
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@kevinmarks @superbland @rosemarybeetle if you want more discussion, http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention has a lot. https://hypothes.is/blog/fuzzy-anchoring/ is a good discussion too (twitter.com/_/status/469565200627015680)
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kylewm so Atom/RSS wars, how did it end? apathy?
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dariusdunlap Glancing at the feed for the first time today… looks like I’ve got some reading to do! ;-)
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KartikPrabhu what is the purpose of https://github.com/indieweb ?
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KevinMarks kylewm: it ended with json
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tantek kylewm: yes, apathy, as all the users left dead-end reader/blogging UX for silos with new shiny UX, likes, etc.
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tantek KevinMarks: except there aren't any json feed formats (other than AS 2.0), and certainly no JSON feed consumers / readers.
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tantek which gives us a window of opportunity with indie readers
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kylewm I second KartikPrabhu's question about github.com/indieweb, and can we join? :)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: for folks in the community to put (somewhat mature?) projects which they're ok with just having anyone in the community drive forward
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KartikPrabhu yeah how do we python people join that :)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: what's your gh username?
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tantek kylewm - you're added
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KartikPrabhu tante: https://github.com/kartikprabhu
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kylewm thanks!!
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tantek strange icon KartikPrabhu
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tantek KartikPrabhu: done
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tantek and now you have similar powers there. use them responsibly :)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: that is some default gravatar thing. I don't like that github uses gravatar which then depends on wordpress blah blah
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gavinc_ KartikPrabhu: Tom Preston-Werner depends on Tom Preston-Werner ;)
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KartikPrabhu it seems I can now add an image directly
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KartikPrabhu but it takes a while to update it across the site or something
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@kevinmarks "@mmasnick: *NOT* to figure out what other properties want to see and then writing to that." #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/469575571916087296)
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KevinMarks Mike Masnick is making a good indieweb case
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tantek KevinMarks: that quote is too out of context to be understandable
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@PurelyNicole RT @benwerd: .@katelosse: "I'm here right now because I realized my favorite platform is writing on my own website." +1 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/469576044060475393)
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: i didn't understand that either
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tantek KevinMarks: is @mmasnick doing it as a series of disconnected sharecropped tweets a performance act or satire or both? WTF?
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tantek ah he was venting and is going to write it up properly: https://twitter.com/mmasnick/status/469575996195098624
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@mmasnick Ok. /rant. I'm going to go write something. (twitter.com/_/status/469575996195098624)
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sparverius HWC is not tonight
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sparverius nnnnnh
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tantek.com edited /Events (-25) "/* Upcoming */ unable to host 2014-06-04 HWC @MozSF - will be away" (view diff)
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tantek !tell benwerd,snarfed I'm going to be out of town (SF) on 2014-06-04 - could one of you host at another transit-accessible SF location? http://indiewebcamp.com/Events#Upcoming
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk holy backscroll batman
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whaity hello indieweb i currently use fitocracy to track heath stuff
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whaity is there a no silo idea for heath tracking?
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aaronpk whaity: I'm doing a little of that on my site http://aaronparecki.com/metrics
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aaronpk currently just weight / sleep / pushups, but i've got plans for a bunch more soon
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/p3k/issues?labels=type%3Ametrics&page=1&state=open
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GWG I need a vacation
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GWG What's going on here?
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 46 minutes ago: I'm going to be out of town (SF) on 2014-06-04 - could one of you host at another transit-accessible SF location? http://indiewebcamp.com/Events#Upcoming
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kylewm did twitter just start letting you attach >1 photo to a tweet? ref https://twitter.com/andigalpern/status/469354917602131968
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@andigalpern The web is your playground. Go play! @t @kevinmarks @erinjo @katelosse @generic_brian @MozSF #indieweb https://twitter.com/andigalpern/status/469354917602131968/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/469354917602131968)
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kylewm the API apparently hasn't kept up with that feature
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gRegor` kylewm: I think multiple photos was introduced about a month ago
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GWG kylewm: I know the software I've used has for a while
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kylewm it's cool, but the API needs to keep up!!
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aaronpk i bet it's just not yet documented in the api
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JonathanNeal If any of you have started using SVGs, I’m prompting discussion to simplify the markup http://discourse.specifiction.org/t/simple-svg-markup/92 https://twitter.com/jon_neal/status/469597460793262080
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@jon_neal It should be this easy, <svg src="image.svg#sprite"></svg> http://discourse.specifiction.org/t/simple-svg-markup/92 do you agree? (twitter.com/_/status/469597460793262080)
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kylewm aaronpk: https://gist.github.com/kylewm/9c663a58b1ef595db013
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aaronpk xml--
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Loqi xml has -2 karma
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aaronpk the api is only returning one photo?
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kylewm yep, as far as i can tell
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kylewm maybe it's actually represented by two separate tweets...
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tantek xml--
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Loqi xml has -3 karma
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aaronpk gawd that svg markup is ugly
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KevinMarks JonathanNeal: can't you use <img src="image.svg" /> ?
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KevinMarks that's how I embed SVG
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JonathanNeal I was going to suggest <img src> work and allow CSS fill: color, but I thought that would be too much to implement.
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KevinMarks how do you mean?
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JonathanNeal I mean, the magic of <svg> is that it can have or inherit CSS that styles its sub-components. You can colorize icons or parts of icons.
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KevinMarks oh, I see. Whereas if you use img you don't get that
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KevinMarks so img is like iframing the CSS
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JonathanNeal Exactly. This is the same reason folks liked icon fonts. Vectors with color. Except SVGs are much better at that and capable of much more.
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KevinMarks I'm pro SVG
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JonathanNeal I love that you always want the most simple markup. Reminds me of your single hash for fragmentions.
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JonathanNeal KevinMarks++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 35 karma
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KevinMarks well, that would not have broken the ruby URL parser...
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JonathanNeal well, it is still supported by the script... so go ahead and use it :)
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tantek JonathanNeal: was there a particular use of SVG on your own site that this was for or … ? (just wondering the indieweb connection)
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KevinMarks silos hate SVGs
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KevinMarks they enforce jpeg, png or gif
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KartikPrabhu I use SVGs a lot like my site logo :)
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JonathanNeal tantek: here’s my thought and call me out if think I’m off. 1. Indieweb people are people who build their own and tinker, and I think that means they have an overall more rounded understanding of web technology. 2. I build and think in “tools”, so sometimes I don’t feel like I belong to either the “consultant web” or “indie web” category. 1
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JonathanNeal + 2 = 3. so I share things here when I think they are things you would use and have more intimate experience with.
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tantek JonathanNeal: that's reasonable reasoning. The key missing bit is the filter that we try to apply to indieweb conversations, namely selfdogfooding.
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JonathanNeal If that’s off, I’m totally okay with that and would not discuss my ware of ideas or technologies here, unless it’s requested, like in the case of KevinMarks.
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tantek That is, there's a bit of an allergic reactions to proposals/discussions of the sort "I think the indieweb would find x useful" if x is not something the proposer is actively using/publishing on their own site.
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JonathanNeal Agreed.
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KevinMarks I would use svg if I posted any images <- not an artist
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KevinMarks though now I want to...
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tantek KevinMarks: perhaps add that as an "Itch" to scratch on your http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Kevinmarks.com page
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KevinMarks it's this old rant: http://epeus.blogspot.com/2011/12/facebook-twitter-and-google-plus-shun.html
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tantek yup - link to that from an "Itches" section on your user page
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KevinMarks I'm starting to realise that my blog is a collection of old rants
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tantek you've brought it up enough times as something you're working on ;)
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: if you use xlink currently can you apply CSS to the parts in the embedded svg?
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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tantek welcome RjRuss!
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RjRuss well Hello :)
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RjRuss so I heard about this in a class yesterday....was working getting my own domain...and come to find out....I suck at coming up with domain names!
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tantek did you try rjruss(.)com ?
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RjRuss yes...taken
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tantek do you have a Twitter profile?
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KartikPrabhu RjRuss: the idea is to have a domain name as your identity so I would suggest your name.com or something
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RjRuss everything with my name in it is taken unless I do some weird reverse order stuff
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GWG How about .net?
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GWG .org?
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tantek or .me?
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GWG .co?
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RjRuss yeah..haha...I hate Twitter...but just started one yesterday as well....figured there was some good people to follow on there
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aaronpk or .io?
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aaronpk or .ninja
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RjRuss I was trying to stick to the .com or .org....
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RjRuss haha
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aaronpk (kidding about .ninja)
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RjRuss .ninja would be super sweet
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KevinMarks rjruss.org is available
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KartikPrabhu rjruss.me is available on namecheap.com :)
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KevinMarks rjruss.codes is $59
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RjRuss serious? totally tried that... Ithought I did anyway..yeah I was on namecheap....
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RjRuss so not original though haha
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KevinMarks I'm looking on hover
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RjRuss yeah...I am cheap...at least too cheap to spend $59 dollars on a domain name haha
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KevinMarks rjruss.me is $13
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tantek how about even shorter - rjr.io?
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KevinMarks rjr.us is gone
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RjRuss haha...I did just find rjr.club....sounds like a party haha
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RjRuss again so unoriginal though..
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aaronpk in my experience the names/domains I thought were "original" at some point I end up getting tired of
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RjRuss yeah true
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RjRuss although I did just find therjr.com
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RjRuss I may go with that
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RjRuss didn't think about using just my initials....I was trying my full name..and various versions...see just needed help with the brainstormin....my brain is fried from daily responsibilities lol
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kylewm rjruss, you said you heard about it in class, was this from Amber's presentation?
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RjRuss yes
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: yes, if you use xlink you can.
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: however, if you link to an external file, IE9-11 won’t understand, so you have to polyfill.
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KartikPrabhu and the main purpose of this is to use svgs as icons right?
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@BarnabyWalters Thanks @jetbrains for giving me a free PHPStorm opensource license to work on Taproot #indieweb tools… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4WCNei/ (twitter.com/_/status/469608586268536832)
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RjRuss hey are all these addons necessary? the PositiveSSL? webhosting? etc?
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RjRuss sorry for the elementary questions...
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aaronpk probably not
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aaronpk where do you plan on hosting?
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RjRuss haha...umm..haven't got that far
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KevinMarks and I just bought svgur.com 'cos I had hover open while talking about SVGs
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aaronpk in that case, probably best to just get the domain with no addons and figure everything else out later
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RjRuss so what is the advantage of doing it this way vs. wordpress or similar?
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aaronpk you can still use wordpress
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RjRuss okay let me rephrase...in your professional opinion...what is the best route for hosting
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aaronpk that depends a lot on other things
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aaronpk what is hosting?
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Loqi Web hosting is perhaps the primary regular cost in maintaining an Indie Web Site (more expensive than most domain name registrations/renewals) http://indiewebcamp.com/hosting
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aaronpk see ^
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GWG I hear hostgator is cheap
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KartikPrabhu RJRuss: (not professional) depends on what you want. Some hosts support some website platforms others don't.
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aaronpk personally I prefer running a VPS so I can run multiple sites and lots of custom stuff, but that's not for everyone
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: right now, icons are a popular way people use SVGs. However, as animation support becomes more widespread and people blog more about them, there will be other uses.
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RjRuss hmmm sounds like I have some more researching to do then....this is much more complicated than it was 15 years ago...geez things have changed
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aaronpk it doesn't have to be more complicated than 15 years ago, you can just do whatever you did then
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aaronpk but there are a few more options now
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: for instance, SVGs would make excellent overlays. Or, I could imagine a Shadow DOM with an embedded SVG that animates the live weather.
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RjRuss yeah sounds like it
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aaronpk start wherever you're comfortable
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RjRuss Thats just ..figuring out where I am comfortable....VPS sounds good when I get the money to do it haha
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aaronpk digitalocean is pretty cheap for VPSs I hear
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kylewm.com edited /web_hosting (+202) "/* Shared Hosting */ added asmallorange" (view diff)
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RjRuss thanks for the help...off to class
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RjRuss \quit
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Loqi [mention] http://stream.withknown.com/2014/check-out-known-on-the-latest-episode-of-twig linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://stream.withknown.com/2014/check-out-known-on-the-latest-episode-of-twig linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: yes. but for existing use cases, I don't want to put icons in the HTML, they should stay in the CSS. And so I don't really have an opinion for the improved markup you suggest
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Loqi [mention] http://stream.withknown.com/2014/check-out-known-on-the-latest-episode-of-twig linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://stream.withknown.com/2014/check-out-known-on-the-latest-episode-of-twig linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: yea, though maybe in the future you can { content: url(path/to/image.svg)
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JonathanNeal fill: blue
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JonathanNeal } or { content: url(data:...)
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JonathanNeal fill: blue
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JonathanNeal }
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KartikPrabhu that i would like! at the moment though I am sticking to icon-fonts, and even then svg font is number one on the font list :)
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Loqi barnabywalters: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 6 minutes ago: KartikPrabhu is interested in how to make inline-commenting work per http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions#Inline_Comment_UI and I remember you had some iframe-based hacks working (or just in mind)? Perhaps time to discuss again!
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: ping
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KartikPrabhu oh! hi barnabywalters :)
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barnabywalters good evening
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KartikPrabhu good very late evening to you :)
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: so, the furthest I got with inline web actions was this: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4RRNLz/
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barnabywalters like the rest of webaction toolbelt, it is not slick or pretty, but works
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KartikPrabhu I still haven't researched that webactions page on the wiki yet will look into it
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barnabywalters I don’t use this particular UI very often because the markup to make it work is only really on one site
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barnabywalters my current work in this area is to move the inline reply UI to a reader interface, of which I have put together a POC: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4V0Amv/
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KartikPrabhu basically I was asked by a friend So once I read your site and want to comment, I have to open a new tab, go to my own site and post there?" which is a legitimate UX question for the indieweb
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: indeed, an important problem to solve
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aaronpk you've seen snarfed's UI right? browser bookmarklets
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aaronpk and benwerd has done some good stuff with a chrome extension for idno
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aaronpk i mean known
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KartikPrabhu oo no! moar links for research please :D
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barnabywalters aaronpk: I’ve not seen snarfed’s particular UI — link?
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barnabywalters yeah I’ve seen known’s firefox social API integration
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aaronpk hm trying to think of a url...
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benwerd right, it's a Firefox Social API integration rather than a browser extension
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aaronpk oh that was firefox? <me>fail</me>
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KartikPrabhu Loqi give aaronpk a url
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barnabywalters Known’s support is the slickest I’ve seen so far
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benwerd I've been trying to avoid writing browser extensions so far :)
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benwerd but incidentally the page that loads as part of Firefox is also accessible as a bookmarklet
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benwerd if not quiiiite as slickly
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barnabywalters benwerd: have you documented your work with the social API anywhere?
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benwerd (PS: thanks barnabywalters!)
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KartikPrabhu so I have been thinking along the lines of a micropub-form (instead of a traditional comment form) that posts a note to the commenter's site as a reply to the current post
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benwerd barnabywalters: no, but that's a great prompt to do so
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barnabywalters I think I’ve seen a screencast and heard you mention it, it would be great to be able to read more about how to implement it
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: that sounds like the stuff barnaby did with replacing the action tag with an inline comment form
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KartikPrabhu probably
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aaronpk the only challenge with micropub is that I may not want to issue access tokens to all the sites I browser
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barnabywalters aaronpk: yeah that’s my concern as well
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: must look into how micropub actually works... maybe authenticate using IndieAuth and then post to site?
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barnabywalters I’m not thrilled about moving all of these interactions out of our personal sites and into an integrated reader, but I think that’s going to be the best overall approach
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KartikPrabhu I mean isn't that what twitter does?
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aaronpk barnabywalters: i'm coming to that conclusion as well
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aaronpk especially as that's how everything has been evolving anyway
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kylewm barnabywalters: your notes posting interface, i mean if you just stuck that on a post permalink page with in-reply-to pre-filled, isn't that basically a micropub comment form?
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: that is what I was going for
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barnabywalters kylewm: sure, but the site has to have my access token, i.e. has to have permission to POST AS ME
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barnabywalters that is *not* a permission I want to give random sites I reply to
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kylewm gotch
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kylewm a
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aaronpk right
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barnabywalters we could introduce a new micropub scope for just commenting, or limit the time span
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aaronpk still tho, not sure I want to go that route
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aaronpk I would rather my browser keep the tokens and know how to post as me
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barnabywalters but then there a bunch of other problems, like everyone now having to implement micropub, and then all commenting UIs being different
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barnabywalters both of which are solved by inline webactions, but they’re a little clunky
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emmak assuming you already have a cookie/token for your own site, couldn't the comment button just foward you to the micropub endpoint on your own site?
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barnabywalters personally I’d rather keep micropub simple and move the responsibility to the user’s reader application
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emmak possibly with some redirect parameter, to take you back to the site you're commenting on
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: diff commenting UIs are a good thing IMO
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aaronpk emmak: yes that would work, but is kind of out of scope of micropub since that involves cookies
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KartikPrabhu has clearly not thought of all things... hmm
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barnabywalters emmak: that’s an interesting idea
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barnabywalters there’s still a lot of risk there though
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aaronpk although still leaves a potential attack vector of the other person's site putting in other properties
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barnabywalters (aaronpk beat me to it)
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aaronpk thinking about how this might relate http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/05/21/2/indieauth-micropub-2fa
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: this is a complex problem :)
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KartikPrabhu should implement micropub to think more concretely
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emmak to explain in more detail, the comment button would forward you to some landing page on your own site, log you in if necessary, confirm the comment you are about to post, and then take you back to the original site
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barnabywalters aaronpk: that’s part of the thinking behind webactions — clicking a button on someone elses site doesn’t perform the action, it pre-fills your UI for performing the action
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: indeed! http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub-endpoint and https://tokens.indieauth.com/ are your friend
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KartikPrabhu to add to that.... the landing page could just be a GET version of the micropub endpoint
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barnabywalters emmak: that makes sense
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emmak aaronpk: i guess this is similar to your two-factor auth concept
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barnabywalters trust-less micropub clients is an interesting idea
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aaronpk I really like the idea of micropub clients pre-filling things and then directing me to my own interface where I approve/finalize the request
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barnabywalters emmak: yeah, and current webaction implementations — enter data in a convenient, untrusted location, confirm posting in a trusted location
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aaronpk would alos give me a chance to add stuff to the post that the other site may not know about, like adding tags, or adding location data
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KartikPrabhu likes this redirect idea
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aaronpk now I want to go build that
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KartikPrabhu neat! I'll get on doing micropub...
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aaronpk oh so after I sign in with indieauth (just to identify myself, no access token generated), barnaby's comment form could set the action to my micropub endpoint. but there'd be no access token. so my micropub endpoint upon getting a request with no access token could handle that appropriately
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: check out http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/new if you want to test your micropub endpoint :)
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barnabywalters aaronpk: that would also protect against implementations getting access tokens wrong
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barnabywalters it’s actually a user-friendly way of dealing with bad tokens!
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aaronpk interesting!!
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barnabywalters good thinking emmak
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KartikPrabhu emmak++
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Loqi emmak has 2 karma
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barnabywalters ha ha this is so easy to implement, too
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aaronpk quick someone document this on /micropub in a new #Comments section
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KartikPrabhu is switching locations... here we go
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waterpigs.co.uk created /Firefox (+214) "very stub" (view diff)
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barnabywalters benwerd: ^^^ I stubbed a Firefox page with a SocialAPI section for you :)
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barnabywalters what is Firefox?
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/Firefox
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aaronparecki.com edited /Firefox (+6) "fix dfn markup" (view diff)
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barnabywalters thanks aaronpk
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aaronpk somewhat confusingly, the <dfn> markup only goes around the term, not the whole sentence
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aaronpk wikis are the greatest <3
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benwerd barnabywalters: thank you. will take a look at adding something in a bit
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barnabywalters huh. I’ll stick to adding manual p-summary in future
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aaronpk nah the parser does a good job of finding the sentence now
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barnabywalters goes back to building a reader