#indiewebcamp 2014-06-05

2014-06-05 UTC
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acegiak
GWG: yeah you'd have to write something separate to scrape all your content
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acegiak
the main aadvantage i saw for that method was ease of multireplies
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acegiak
but theyre the mst fringe usecase
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GWG
multireplies?
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@timoni
RT @t: NYC last-minute plan by @j & me: Homebrew Website Club meetup NYC TONIGHT 20:30 Ace Hotel Lobby http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-06-04-homebrew-website-club (ttk.me t4WR1)
(twitter.com/_/status/474344094282838016)
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aaronpk
what is a multireply?
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Loqi
A multiple reply (multireply) is a reply written directly in response to multiple previous posts http://indiewebcamp.com/multireply
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iamshane.com
created /shaners (+31) "/shaners redirect to User:Iamshane.com"
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GWG
aaronpk: That's a new one
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GWG
acegiak: Seems to be an edge case
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GWG
HWC in NYC and I'm missing it. Darn
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gRegor`
Strange, acegiak. Loqi should pick up the first sentence with your <dfn> and show that.
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Loqi
is done
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gRegor`
who is gRegor`
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Loqi
gRegor Morrill is a software engineer living in Chicago, Illinois http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com
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aaronpk
GWG: /b 21
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aaronpk
GWG: oops. meant to say what is a new one?
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snarfed
acegiak: i've actually found myself multireplying recently when someone posses something and i want my reply to be visible in the silo too
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GWG
aaronpk: To me. Multireply
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GWG
snarfed: Do you have an example of that?
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snarfed
GWG: looking
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aaronpk
oh! yes, somewhat a rare occurrence but there's some documented examples there
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GWG
Is it worth building or only allowing one URL and requiring people to manually mark up the second?
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KartikPrabhu
multireply example for POSSEd posts: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/url-hide
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GWG
I'll ask again...
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GWG
Is it worth building or only allowing one URL and requiring people to manually mark up the second?
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snarfed
GWG: maybe no one had a strong opinion
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snarfed
if it's a rare use case, and manual markup works, i'd say don't bother
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snarfed
aaronpk: i assume we're using talky for video tonight?
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snarfed
!tell aaronpk, tantek let's use https://talky.io/hwc tonight? still setting up here, but will be there soon
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG
So, now I need to find the code to add a URL box above the content editor.
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GWG
It requires some fiddling apparently
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aaronpk
snarfed: great!
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Loqi
aaronpk: snarfed left you a message 3 minutes ago: let's use https://talky.io/hwc tonight? still setting up here, but will be there soon
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KevinMarks
hm, looking at http://aws.amazon.com/developers/getting-started/browser/ and wondering how that could become an indieAuth permission
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GWG
KevinMarks: Did you ever decide on East vs West?
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acegiak
GWG: I'd say manual markup for seconds is fine
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: what do you mean?
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acegiak
I'm planning on just using the Advanced Custom Fields plugin for things like url boxes etc
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GWG
acegiak: Why? The coding for that is simple.
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acegiak
but if the plugin is already there why reqrite the code?
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aaronpk
i'm on the talky.io now
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snarfed
joining
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aaronpk
oh wait I need to switch networks, hold on
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acegiak
joining to listen in?
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snarfed
acegiak: think i see you. long hair, headphones?
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snarfed
heh. hi!
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GWG
acegiak, must disagree with that this time. You need consistency in custom fields
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acegiak
GWG: so using the taxonomy plugin as a way of enforcing that consistency?
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acegiak
I like that approach
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GWG
Yes. In the field name
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acegiak
works for me
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acegiak
so the way you've got it set up at the moment only allows for a post to be one "kind" so I'm modding the version I'm running to allow multiples
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GWG
acegiak, you can change that by removing one line.
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acegiak
cause "like and reblog" is my most common use case
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aaronpk
I just realized what's going on with acegiak's user page not showing the dfn
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aaronpk
i'm naively checking if there's already a p-summary tag and not automatically generating it from the dfn line
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aaronparecki.com
edited /User:Acegiak.net (+31) "add explicit p-summary tag"
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aaronpk
who is acegiak?
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Loqi
Acegiak is a web and game developer from Adelaide, South Australia http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Acegiak.net
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Loqi
giggles
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acegiak
ok so not me
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GWG
acegiak, just remove the call to the object
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acegiak
irc from phone because talky lags my awful connection
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acegiak
GWG: yeah have done
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acegiak
Im just mentioning it
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GWG
I borrowed the radio button code anyway
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acegiak
yeah fair enough
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acegiak
snarfed: looks like my rubbish connection can't handle the talky
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aaronpk
snarfed: i moved my camera directly under the tv, maybe that will help with hte echo?
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snarfed
trying!
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GWG
aaronpk, headphones?
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aaronpk
ooh wow it is loud and dark in NY
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Loqi
tantek: snarfed left you a message 48 minutes ago: let's use https://talky.io/hwc tonight? still setting up here, but will be there soon
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aaronpk
i don't think video to NY is going to work
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snarfed
agreed
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kylewm
GWG: we should have had HWC Florida
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GWG
kylewm, where are you?
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kylewm
Titusville, near Cape Canaveral
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GWG
I am in the south. Going home Friday morning
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acegiak
Am I the only australian? that seems improbable
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iamshane.com
edited /Homesteading (+0) "corrected /articles short code url to /b from /a"
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iamshane.com
edited /Homesteading (-7) "updated permalink structure documentation"
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kylewm
acegiak: Iceland: 2, Australia: 1. you need to start recruiting!
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bret
aaronpk: I'll be at Esri in a few mins
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bret
I'll text you when I'm there
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aaronpk
ah sweet
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acegiak
kylewm: according to emily my recruitment efforts at parties are sometimes excessive
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iamshane.com
edited /Homesteading () "(-5411) Removed IndieMark section. It's out of date and doesn't display well on the wiki."
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kylewm
acegiak++ for excessive recruiting activities :)
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Loqi
acegiak has 3 karma
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kylewm
benwerd++ for MySQL support in Known!
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Loqi
benwerd has 21 karma
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iamshane.com
edited /Homesteading (-100) "updated Open Source section with link to GH org"
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tantek
has just been preparing for his IndieWeb talk at PDF2014: http://personaldemocracy.com/program
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aaronpk
craig from genshi box is here this week!
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tantek
ooh genshi box is a real thing!!!
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tantek
or at least there's a real person behind it :)
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tantek
@j is talking about how her Twitter was compromised
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tantek
apparently the attackers did not attack her domain name
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KartikPrabhu
still does not understand the <single-letter Twitter attack obsession
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bret
aaronpk: Ok downstairs!
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aaronpk
bret: brt!
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tantek
ok leaning back to take a photo
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tantek
OH: "before there was the word selfie, there was tanteking"
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gRegor`
Hah
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tantek
I blame adactio (who I think coined the term )
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GWG
Who is @j
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iamshane.com
edited /User:Iamshane.com (+9) "/* Other Projects */"
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iamshane.com
edited /User:Iamshane.com (+9) "/* indieweb support */"
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iamshane.com
edited /User:Iamshane.com (-42) "removed duplicate section"
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GWG
Every time I put in twitter.com/j it autocompletes to twitter.com/justinbieber
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GWG
Grrr
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GWG
Okay. Juliette Melton...not familiar with the name.
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KartikPrabhu
gregor`: figured out how to escape the SVG (finally!) in DJango
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gRegor`
woot!
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Loqi
yay!
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snarfed
sf says break a leg tomorrow tantek!
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tantek
thanks snarfed!!!
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tantek
ok looks like we're all shut down for the night?
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iamshane.com
edited /User:Iamshane.com (-306) "added dfn tag for Loqi 'who is shaners' support"
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shaners
who is shaners
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shaners
who is Shaners
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shaners
I didn't do something right :/
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shaners
who is aaronpk
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aaronpk
!tell benwerd are you planning on coming to IWC West?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
Aaron Parecki is the co-founder of IndieWebCamp, currently the CTO of Esri R&D Center, Portland http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Aaronparecki.com
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gRegor`
shaners: I don't think the regex works with the <span>s inside the <dfn>
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shaners
gRegor` ok. i'll try it without.
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gRegor`
You could try an explicit p-summary instead of the <dfn>. That's what i have on mine currently.
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kylewm
aaronpk: low urgency bug report: OwnYourGram seems to have stopped picking up my updates. publishing still works when I log in to OYG and click Test Post, but they stopped sending manually. (I recently revoked the app key and readded it when I changed to https)
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iamshane.com
edited /User:Iamshane.com (-2) "/* Shane Becker */"
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kylewm
s / manually / automatically
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shaners
who is shaners
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gRegor`
Hm
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iamshane.com
edited /User:Iamshane.com (-125) "/* Shane Becker */"
(view diff)
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shaners
who is shaners
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KartikPrabhu
what kind of stuff do people put in the dfn on user pages?
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gRegor`
The regex seems to work. aaronpk edited acegiak's page to make it work earlier, but he just added a line between the heading and the text, which you have already
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aaronpk
i actually added the explicit p-summary markup to make acegiak's work
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gRegor`
Ah. Hm.
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iamshane.com
edited /User:Iamshane.com (-353) "trying to get my whois working"
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gRegor`
shaners: Try the p-summary without a dfn
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gRegor`
who is shaners
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Loqi
Shane Becker is the co-founder of Hypernova which is making Homesteading http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Iamshane.com
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gRegor`
winner, winner
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aaronpk
the dfn trick is really only needed for article pages, probably better to use p-summary explicitly for user pages
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gRegor`
Ok
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gregorlove.com
edited /Loqi (+31) "/* Commands and Queries */ clarify use of p-summary to get user info"
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@genshi
Meeting with #indiewebcamp homebrew club. Seeing how we could work together on my genshi.box http:///login?continue=%2Fgenshi%2Fcheckin%2F538fdb25498e00bb79162516
(twitter.com/_/status/474382927263186944)
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GWG
acegiak: You have like as metadata as opposed to a taxonomy though
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GWG
acegiak: So, you have title and citation otherwise?
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gregorlove.com
edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+28) "/* Introduction */"
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GWG
acegiak: What do you put in each field usually?
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post-by-email
uploaded /File:20140605-030447.jpg "Uploaded via email by Paul M <tallpaul@ml1.net>"
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acegiak
GWG: Good point, I don't need the checkbox for like because if it's in that taxonomy it's automatically a like
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GWG
Yes.
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acegiak
GWG: target is always populated with the url of the target/thing
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acegiak
and title is whatever I want to display as the human readable name of that element
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GWG
You have title and citation, correct? So, that is the external link and the title you want to style for it?
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GWG
You just answered, disregard. I was still typing.
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GWG
But, why not use the Wordpress title for that?
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acegiak
citation is what I put in the blockquote
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GWG
That was where I was confused.
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acegiak
GWG: often they're the same, but sometimes I'll change the wordpress title if I'm replying in a more verbose way
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GWG
So, it is the section you wish to cite?
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acegiak
yeah, which is sometimes all, or sometimes a quote
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GWG
You also have something like pfefferle's reply context, where it pulls it in automatically
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acegiak
if you want to see how I'm doing things currently without the taxonomy it's documented on my userpage in the wiki? I think the screenshots help
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GWG
My plan is always to build manual data entry and add automatic later.
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acegiak
GWG: I currently have whisperfollow to prepopulate a mini form which I'm planning on extracting out into a modal and submitting results via ajax
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GWG
Well, my design plan is, as mentioned, to build the manual data entry. The automatic can be a separate plugin, so you can extract from the source of your choice.
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GWG
I also want to put the URL above the content box
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acegiak
yeah it would be nice to have those fields up top
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GWG
I was looking at Barnaby Walter's post UI
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GWG
This is his notes one
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GWG
Have you ever seen the Post Formats UI plugin that was supposed to be Wordpress core?
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GWG
Have a look at this
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GWG
It uses javascript to change the display based on a selected post format.
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acegiak
man, that's awesome
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GWG
It was supposed to be in core.
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GWG
But it was pulled out of 3.6
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GWG
The...post meta box switching it does is something I would consider adopting.
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acegiak
yeah I want to javascript away the non-relevant input fields when kinds aren't selected
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@benwerd
Thanks @schnarfed for hosting Homebrew Website Club SF this week! Lots of interesting #indieweb conversations.
(twitter.com/_/status/474393730376421376)
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GWG
acegiak: Do you know Javascript? I've never really done much with it
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acegiak
yeah. I use jquery for most of it
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acegiak
I could do a hack-y thing where I throw in some code that listens for the kind checkboxes/radiobuttons being toggled and then hide or display the divs, I'm just wondering if there's a proper wordpress way to do it
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GWG
acegiak: Not really from what I can see.
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acegiak
then I'll do it the hack-y way when I get back
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acegiak
heading out to a meeting, bbl
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GWG
But, a checkbox for response that shows the URL box above the editor would be useful.
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GWG
Okay
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GWG
acegiak: I may work on some things
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GWG
tantek: You are good at naming things. I need a name for something
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tantek
good evening
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GWG
tantek: Good evening.
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GWG
tantek: I need a name for the set that includes the URL that a note is in response to, an optional citation within same, etc.
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GWG
tantek: Sorry I missed you in NYC
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tantek
hmmm will think about it
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: how was HWC NYC?
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@Nymble_Me
RT @benwerd: Thanks @schnarfed for hosting Homebrew Website Club SF this week! Lots of interesting #indieweb conversations.
(twitter.com/_/status/474403885319475200)
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gRegor`
!tell barnabywalters I sent a PR for mf2-php
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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bret
woo new tantek talk :D there is going to be a video right?!
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KartikPrabhu
I hope so!
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@betolive
Recomendado: http://www.windley.com/archives/2014/06/building_a_universal_silo.shtml Centralized Silos (Internet of APPL, GOOG, FB) vs. Decentralized (Open Internet of) #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/474415416262283264)
fmarier, eschnou, friedcell, snarfed, caseorganic, dybskiy and dybskiy_ joined the channel
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aaronpk
kylewm: I think ownyourgram stopped working cause you are redirecting http to https and it's still sending to the http endpoint
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aaronpk
so the post request fails on the redirect
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Main_Page (+5) "/* IndieWebCamp 2014 */ fix address on home page"
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psyhigh.com
edited /2014/Guest_List (+321) "/* West */"
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gRegor`
Flight for IWC west purchased!
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aaronpk
gRegor`: YAY!
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Loqi
woot
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aaronparecki.com
edited /how-to-sponsor (+1849) "add info about locations"
(view diff)
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GWG
gRegor`: No New York pizza for you
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GWG
!tell acegiak I seem to have put location as a field in there.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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cweiske
is there a standalone give-me-the-url-and-i-give-you-json mf2-parser software I can host internally?
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gRegor`
GWG: Yeah, but the dream of the '90s is alive in Portland
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cweiske
like aaronpk's pin13.net
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GWG
gRegor`: Trying to think of a witty retort to that, but I'm tired, so I'm just going to go to bed.
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KartikPrabhu
cweiske: there is php-mf2 https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2 (which is what pin13 uses) and mf2py for python official: https://github.com/tommorris/mf2py and bleeding edge: https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py
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GWG
gRegor`: I just stayed up adding an HTML5 geolocation function to a taxonomy plugin, and I think I probably should have made it its own thing. But I was adding metadata fields and got carried away.
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cweiske
yes, but that does not provide the HTTP interface
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cweiske
this is the missing piece I did not want to write myself
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KartikPrabhu
oh! I suppose you have to write the http yourself
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gRegor`
cweiske: It can be pretty simple. Set up a form textarea and it's just three lines of PHP to parse and output it with mf2-php.
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cweiske
gRegor`, I know that it can be pretty simple
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cweiske
I just prefer not to do it myself if the code is already available
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gRegor`
Gotcha
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KartikPrabhu
cweiske: I have written one which is here: https://github.com/kartikprabhu/connection/blob/master/connection/mfparser.py#L3 but it takes the unparsed document and not the url
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KartikPrabhu
don't know how useful it is
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: has one that takes the URL maybe he can help better
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cweiske
we've got a company-internal address book whose html is mf2-marked up, and one of the people here needs json
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KartikPrabhu
is almost done with the SVG icons article and promises a read for tomorrow lunch time :)
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KartikPrabhu
night all!
pfefferle, friedcell, aaronpk, brianloveswords, dybskiy, KartikPrabhu, tobiastom and petermolnar joined the channel
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petermolnar
I'm catching up with yesterday evening
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petermolnar
GWG that post-formats plugin is brilliant and could be a very good base for the webmentions plugin: custom post type, the same layout with changing fields, that would be really nice
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acegiak
GWG: are you creating a separate metabox for each meta field?
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Loqi
acegiak: GWG left you a message 2 hours, 4 minutes ago: I seem to have put location as a field in there.
KevinMarks, krendil, Sebastien-L, friedcell, KartikPrabhu, sparverius, dybskiy, KartikPrabhu1 and netweb joined the channel
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kylewm
!tell aaronpk tried to revoke and reauthorize, getting this error now on the callback from indieauth https://gist.github.com/kylewm/1d394827363580b9e510
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
barnabywalters: gRegor` left you a message on 6/4 at 9:49am: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-06-04/line/1401899881
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Loqi
barnabywalters: gRegor` left you a message 5 hours, 58 minutes ago: I sent a PR for mf2-php
dybskiy, tantek, pfefferle, jsilvestre, KevinMarks, BjornW, julien51, erikmaarten and kyank joined the channel
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GWG
acegiak: By type. One for the Response URL/title, and another for Location so far. I figured that I'd cover all additional metadata
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barnabywalters
cweiske: oops, I left a !tell in #microformats for you accidentally instead of in here
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acegiak
GWG: that makes sense. are you doing the citation thing another way other than just having a field for the citation text or are you just not using it?
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cweiske
ok, saw it
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GWG
acegiak: I never did a citation text myself, but I might add it in. I pushed the changes I did last night to the repository. I need to fix some of the location code I put in.
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barnabywalters
cweiske: cool — hopefully that helps solve the problem you mentioned earlier
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cweiske
actually no
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cweiske
I wanted a complete app, preferably in a .phar, that I can drop into my webserver
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cweiske
and let it run
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barnabywalters
cweiske: ah, okay — basically pin13.net in a box
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barnabywalters
cweiske: well, thanks for the prompt to finally add Mf2\fetch(), even if it didn’t fix your problem :)
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GWG
acegiak: What other fields do you think need to be added?
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@mapkyca
I trust all those joining #resettheweb know about the #indieweb? If not, go find out about it: http://indiewebcamp.com
(twitter.com/_/status/474530447238893568)
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cweiske
barnabywalters, why do you rely on curl instead of using file_get_contents?
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cweiske
and why do you need two variables, $info and $curlInfo?
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barnabywalters
cweiske: curl gives information about the content type which IIRC file_get_contents doesn’t provide
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cweiske
oh, it does
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barnabywalters
cweiske: how so?
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cweiske
if you use file_get_contents with http/https, you get a $http_header_vars variable
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GWG
petermolnar: Re post formats...might try...but that is a bit more javascript than I know.
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barnabywalters
I would much rather use it than curl
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barnabywalters
that is both horrible and awesome
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petermolnar
GWG I can help with JS
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cweiske
and if you want to limit the redirects yourself: http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/php-redirection-limit-reached.htm
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GWG
petermolnar: Have a look at the latest code in the repository I set up.
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GWG
petermolnar: I have a few things to finish on the location side though.
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GWG
petermolnar: I was able to make the content editor movable.
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barnabywalters
cweiske: is there also a way to get the last URL in the redirect chain? I just realised that is neccessary too
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barnabywalters
for correctly resolving relative URLs
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cweiske
good question
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cweiske
there is a way to extract it
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barnabywalters
it could be worked around by creating a custom redirect follower, and limiting each request to not follow any redirects
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cweiske
see the 2nd note
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cweiske
the headers are appended to each other
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cweiske
so you have the headers of *all* requests in the array
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cweiske
the last location header is the final url
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barnabywalters
ah, okay, that makes sense
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cweiske
but you still have manually iterate through the array
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barnabywalters
cweiske: yep, and resolve the URLs against the original URL
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barnabywalters
fortunately php-mf2 already has a function for that
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cweiske
because by the spec, the location header only may contain full uris
#
cweiske
Location = "Location" ":" absoluteURI
#
barnabywalters
that is true, however both browsers and file_get_contents happily accept them
#
acegiak
GWG: citation, title and url are all the three fields I use regularly
#
acegiak
we might need to add things for rsvp etc and stuff like that later?
#
acegiak
though that might just be able to be resolved in the taxonomy?
#
acegiak
like have one taxonomy kind which is "rsvp" and one which is "nega-rsvp" and then use the target url again
#
acegiak
the thing is a lot of actions use the same fields
brianloveswords, tantek, dybskiy and jonnybarnes joined the channel
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acegiak
oh no. i appear to have mysteriously broken my tumblr posseing
luxagraf joined the channel
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luxagraf
fyi for anyone using openssl, time to upgrade again: http://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20140605.txt
#
rascul
waits patiently for openbsd to finish libressl
#
tantek
namecheap is supposedly offering $1.99 SSL certs all day today
#
tantek
just heard at #pdf14
#
cweiske
still too expensive
#
luxagraf
part of me thinks moving to https might be worse since it makes people think they're safe, when in fact they may not be
#
rascul
yeah they been doing that for a few days at least
#
cweiske
i'd rather have any browser trust cacert
#
luxagraf
at least with http you *know* you're not
#
rascul
startssl is free
#
rascul
and the root ca in the browsers
#
cweiske
I know
#
cweiske
and you have all kinds of limitations on that certs
#
cweiske
only 6 months validity
#
rascul
1 year
#
cweiske
while you get 2 years with cacert once you have enough trust points
#
cweiske
and the last time I checked you needed different accounts if you wanted multiple free certs
#
rascul
you can get multiple certs with one account
#
rascul
and they're good for a year, see the cert at https://rascul.io for example
#
cweiske
good to know
#
rascul
it'll say 403 forbidden but you can still view cert info
#
cweiske
saw it
#
rascul
although, the way ssl certs are sold nowadays is ridiculous
#
rascul
for one, i don't trust the majority of those companies that already have their certificates in the browser
#
cweiske
do you remove their certs from your browsers?
#
rascul
my browser trusts them, i personally don't
#
rascul
they've done nothing to earn my trust, but i don't delete the certs because that would make https a real pain
#
rascul
aaronpk has some sort of indieweb ca setup somewhere iirc
#
tantek
likely documented on /https
#
rascul
that's the way to go with ssl i think, smaller certificate authorities you can build personal trust with instead of big ones you've never heard of
#
cweiske
trust on first use would be better IMO
ttepasse joined the channel
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barnabywalters
rascul: aaronpk’s indieweb ca thing is for convenience when testing https locally IIRC
#
rascul
pretty sure he said it's fine to use normally too
#
rascul
but i can't remember too well
paulcp, KartikPrabhu, luxagraf and dybskiy joined the channel
KartikPrabhu, aboynejames, KevinMarks, paulcp, tantek and v0 joined the channel
#
@t
Excited to speak today at Personal Democracy Forum on the #IndieWeb. Live stream now: http://personaldemocracy.com/conferences/nyc/2014 #pdf14 (ttk.me t4WS1)
(twitter.com/_/status/474562032977453058)
#
PMurphs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg9YAUPnPds just in case anyone forgot about this
#
@hillary
RT @t: Excited to speak today at Personal Democracy Forum on the #IndieWeb. Live stream now: http://personaldemocracy.com/conferences/nyc/2014 #pdf14 (ttk.me t4WS1)
(twitter.com/_/status/474562495164997632)
chloeweil joined the channel
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tantek.com
edited /Atom (+8) "/* RSS Atom wars */ linky"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
edited /RSS (+55) "/* History */ RSS_Atom_wars"
(view diff)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
tantek.com
edited /Atom (+113) "/* RSS Atom wars */ dfns"
(view diff)
#
@gericci
RT @t: Excited to speak today at Personal Democracy Forum on the #IndieWeb. Live stream now: http://personaldemocracy.com/conferences/nyc/2014 #pdf14 (ttk.me t4WS1)
(twitter.com/_/status/474564727050612736)
#
@benwerd
Glad @t is at #pdf14 talking #indieweb on #resetthenet day. An easy way we can reclaim our digital identities. http://indiewebcamp.com
(twitter.com/_/status/474564767802077184)
KartikPrabhu, gRegor`, snarfed and dybskiy joined the channel
#
@pdmteam
Tantek Celik up next at #PDF14, talking about the "IndieWeb"
(twitter.com/_/status/474578640089665537)
#
@mcbyrne
RT @pdmteam: Tantek Celik up next at #PDF14, talking about the "IndieWeb"
(twitter.com/_/status/474578769639137281)
#
@BillNigh
RT @pdmteam: Tantek Celik up next at #PDF14, talking about the "IndieWeb"
(twitter.com/_/status/474578815255986176)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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@karmel80
Important - Why the indieweb is important. Not silos / proprietary site such as Facebook, Twitter etc etc #pdf14
(twitter.com/_/status/474579348658589696)
bdesham joined the channel
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@jgksf
The independent media supports the #indieweb #pdf14
(twitter.com/_/status/474579631635714048)
#
@TMCmedia
The independent media supports the #indieweb #pdf14
(twitter.com/_/status/474579632172584960)
#
@tummler10
RT @karmel80: Important - Why the indieweb is important. Not silos / proprietary site such as Facebook, Twitter etc etc #pdf14
(twitter.com/_/status/474579797998600193)
#
@citizencontact
RT @t: Excited to speak today at Personal Democracy Forum on the #IndieWeb. Live stream now: http://personaldemocracy.com/conferences/nyc/2014 #pdf14 (ttk.me t4WS1)
(twitter.com/_/status/474579880420450304)
#
@mgyerman
#PDF14 Why We Need the IndieWeb Tantek Çelik. Discussing how "the silos have taken over."
(twitter.com/_/status/474579898582196224)
#
@richny
Rise of silos like Facebook endangered #IndieWeb says @t #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474579907742547968)
#
@AskThemPPF
Founder of #indieweb- @t on dominant era of "friendly silos", makes eulogy for site deaths like geocities, upcoming, posterous, etc. #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474580008108052480)
#
@tummler10
RT @AskThemPPF: Founder of #indieweb- @t on dominant era of "friendly silos", makes eulogy for site deaths like geocities, upcoming, poster…
(twitter.com/_/status/474580120448278529)
brainTrain_ joined the channel
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@AskThemPPF
Founder of #indieweb- @t on dominant era of "friendly silos", short eulogy for site deaths like geocities, upcoming, posterous, etc. #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474580190946136064)
#
brainTrain_
hah whoops looks like I'm logged in in two places
#
@AskThemPPF
Founder of #indieweb- @t on dominant era of "friendly silos"- short eulogy for site deaths like geocities, upcoming, posterous, etc. #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474580303420608512)
#
@zeynep
.@t is talking about how tech community focuses on "plumbing" than people interaction, and then big corps move in, kill indieweb. #pdf14
(twitter.com/_/status/474580445238415360)
#
@richny
Many sites we relied on to store our data, like geocities, shut down, says @t http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474580572527136770)
#
@karmel80
RT @AskThemPPF: Founder of #indieweb- @t on dominant era of "friendly silos"- short eulogy for site deaths like geocities, upcoming, poster…
(twitter.com/_/status/474580580861227009)
pfefferle and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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@tjl
Atom/RSS seems a less causally powerful expl for the indieweb’s death than the IRRESISTIBLE HOMOGENIZING FORCE OF GLOBAL CAPITALISM #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474580742312574976)
#
@elle_mccann
RT @tjl: Atom/RSS seems a less causally powerful expl for the indieweb’s death than the IRRESISTIBLE HOMOGENIZING FORCE OF GLOBAL CAPITALIS…
(twitter.com/_/status/474580841289768960)
#
@prestonrhea
RT @tjl: Atom/RSS seems a less causally powerful expl for the indieweb’s death than the IRRESISTIBLE HOMOGENIZING FORCE OF GLOBAL CAPITALIS…
(twitter.com/_/status/474581055065047040)
#
@climatebrad
.@t explains how @indiewebcamp has replicated @twitter interface w/o Twitter silo #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474581281230290944)
#
@andrewbt
RT @tjl: Atom/RSS seems a less causally powerful expl for the indieweb’s death than the IRRESISTIBLE HOMOGENIZING FORCE OF GLOBAL CAPITALIS…
(twitter.com/_/status/474581332686028801)
#
@karmel80
RT @richny: Many sites we relied on to store our data, like geocities, shut down, says @t http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474581338751000576)
#
@moh_kohn
RT @AskThemPPF: Founder of #indieweb- @t on dominant era of "friendly silos"- short eulogy for site deaths like geocities, upcoming, poster…
(twitter.com/_/status/474581348842504193)
#
@ppolitics
#indieweb reminders from @t at #PdF14: Foo Camp '08, Twitter & Jaiku were actually federated. Next we need #opendata standards for Congress.
(twitter.com/_/status/474581471655895040)
#
@SlaughterAM
.@t talking about how federated comments, federated events can link together small #indieweb sites to compete w/ "mega-silos." #pdf14
(twitter.com/_/status/474581498285539328)
#
@JaneLisa23
Why we need the IndieWeb--design and user experience matters @t #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474581732378021888)
#
Loqi
[@CauseGlobal] Facebook and Twitter are at the point of copying each other
#
Loqi
we can do better sez Tantek Celik #PDF14 http://indiewebcamp.com (http://twtr.io/n5YFQqjeKU)
#
@v_kristensen
RT @SlaughterAM: .@t talking about how federated comments, federated events can link together small #indieweb sites to compete w/ "mega-sil…
(twitter.com/_/status/474581826028445697)
#
@AndreVelva
RT @climatebrad: .@t explains how @indiewebcamp has replicated @twitter interface w/o Twitter silo #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474581833930510336)
#
@rsm
Why we need indieweb? Bc we're at peak silo now. We want you to own your identity online. -@t #PDF14 https://twitter.com/rsm/status/474581842038108160/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/474581842038108160)
#
@pratiksir
RT @SlaughterAM: .@t talking about how federated comments, federated events can link together small #indieweb sites to compete w/ "mega-sil…
(twitter.com/_/status/474581850539556864)
#
@Tableteer
This indieweb stuff is cool. #pdf2014
(twitter.com/_/status/474581882613821440)
#
@tracyrusso
Indieweb concepts and applications would be amazing for federal record keeping for #digitalgov
(twitter.com/_/status/474581883540738048)
#
@richny
Via #indieweb you can post on your site, own your own data, and still distribute via Twitter, other networks, says @t #pdf14
(twitter.com/_/status/474581904059281408)
#
@alemannoEU
RT @SlaughterAM: .@t talking about how federated comments, federated events can link together small #indieweb sites to compete w/ "mega-sil…
(twitter.com/_/status/474581931112542208)
#
@climatebrad
.@t: Join us in 3 weeks at @indiewebcamp at the NYT HQ! #pdf14
(twitter.com/_/status/474581939111079936)
#
@HeatherLeson
RT @AskThemPPF: Founder of #indieweb- @t on dominant era of "friendly silos"- short eulogy for site deaths like geocities, upcoming, poster…
(twitter.com/_/status/474581984165904384)
#
@tracyrusso
Indieweb concepts and applications would be amazing for federal record keeping for #digitalgov #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474581998561157120)
#
@MetaActivism
check out http://indiewebcamp.com to help build the independent web #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474582004957458433)
#
@brighteyedjaymi
RT @climatebrad: .@t explains how @indiewebcamp has replicated @twitter interface w/o Twitter silo #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474582016017846272)
#
@mgyerman
#PDF14 Totally agree that FB, Twitter, & Google+ have have started to look all alike. Definitely will be chekcing out @indiewebcamp!
(twitter.com/_/status/474582018240831488)
#
@SocialCompany
good idea to protect and give better care for your own contents http://indiewebcamp.com/ #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474582039489179650)
#
@moh_kohn
RT @richny: Many sites we relied on to store our data, like geocities, shut down, says @t http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474582055037440000)
#
@SlaughterAM
Go to http://Indiewebcamp.com/2014 -- help build the next generation of the Independent Web. #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474582067679092736)
#
@simonerothman
@t #indieweb wants us to own our own data #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474582130136453120)
#
@Lisa03755
Yes! I want to join @IndieWebCamp @NYT in 3 weeks. How do I get involved? #PersonalDemocracyForum #PDF2014
(twitter.com/_/status/474582235203796992)
#
@AskThemPPF
At #PDF14, @t's #indieweb "wants you to own your own data"- provides domain privacy & rich content embedding for a greater independent web
(twitter.com/_/status/474582238810886144)
#
@jenvandermeer
RT @SlaughterAM: Go to http://Indiewebcamp.com/2014 -- help build the next generation of the Independent Web. #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474582404544622592)
#
@ManBartlett
@indiewebcamp Great presentation today at #PDF14. Elucidated some things I've been thinking about recently.
(twitter.com/_/status/474582499902124032)
#
@benwerd
If you enjoyed @t's awesome talk at #pdf14, head here to learn more: http://indiewebcamp.com
(twitter.com/_/status/474582570282135552)
#
Loqi
[@gdnik] Don't rely on the "silos" aka #BigSocial to be the stewards of your data
#
Loqi
@IndependantWeb has camp July in NYC http://indiewebcamp.com (http://twtr.io/n5Yb3fYVHt)
KartikPrabhu1 joined the channel
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@VinceDaily
@t #IndieWeb wants you. We want u to own ur own stuff. (you saw that right, dude's handle is a single letter) #PDF14 http://www.mlbam.com
(twitter.com/_/status/474582813761486850)
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@CodeforFTL
RT @rsm: Why we need indieweb? Bc we're at peak silo now. We want you to own your identity online. -@t #PDF14 https://twitter.com/rsm/status/474581842038108160/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/474582875728519170)
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@benwerd
We're also creating an accessible, responsive, open source #indieweb platform (you saw our events support): http://withknown.com #pdf14
(twitter.com/_/status/474583101704654848)
#
@mathewi
RT @SlaughterAM: .@t talking about how federated comments, federated events can link together small #indieweb sites to compete w/ "mega-sil…
(twitter.com/_/status/474583283565883392)
#
@VinceDaily
RT @SlaughterAM: Go to http://Indiewebcamp.com/2014 -- help build the next generation of the Independent Web. #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474583345553489921)
tantek joined the channel
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@MishiChoudhary
RT @SlaughterAM: .@t talking about how federated comments, federated events can link together small #indieweb sites to compete w/ "mega-sil…
(twitter.com/_/status/474583590618284032)
#
@benwerd
RT @tracyrusso: Indieweb concepts and applications would be amazing for federal record keeping for #digitalgov #PDF14
(twitter.com/_/status/474583997209530368)
#
@benwerd
RT @rsm: Why we need indieweb? Bc we're at peak silo now. We want you to own your identity online. -@t #PDF14 https://twitter.com/rsm/status/474581842038108160/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/474584036581449730)
#
@ShaneHudson
RT @rsm: Why we need indieweb? Bc we're at peak silo now. We want you to own your identity online. -@t #PDF14 https://twitter.com/rsm/status/474581842038108160/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/474584150062936064)
#
tantek
oh wow just reading the archives now. hopefully it wasn't too much noise! :)
tilgovi joined the channel
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kylewm
good problems, tantek!
#
tallpaul
the sound of virtual applause
#
@ossguy
2014 is the year of "peak silo UX" (Twitter and Facebook look virtually the same now) - @t #IndieWebCamp will go beyond. #PDF14 #PDF2014
(twitter.com/_/status/474585725560557569)
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@hubmum
RT @benwerd: If you enjoyed @t's awesome talk at #pdf14, head here to learn more: http://indiewebcamp.com
(twitter.com/_/status/474585918712864769)
#
@perwinroth
RT @rsm: Why we need indieweb? Bc we're at peak silo now. We want you to own your identity online. -@t #PDF14 https://twitter.com/rsm/status/474581842038108160/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/474586315439489024)
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@Lisa03755
RT @ossguy 2014 is the year of "peak silo UX" (Twitter and Facebook look virtually the same now) - @t #IndieWebCamp will go beyond. #PDF2014
(twitter.com/_/status/474586434519986176)
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petermolnar
!tell GWG I've altered the cf-post-formats by adding a radiobutton selector to the link type for webmention data ( like, reply, repost )
#
petermolnar
this is perfect for my approach, I only need to connect it to the webmention plugin's send function ( see: https://github.com/petermolnar/wp-post-formats )
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
luxagraf joined the channel
KartikPrabhu, dybskiy and eschnou joined the channel
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@PNS_News
RT @TMCmedia: The independent media supports the #indieweb #pdf14
(twitter.com/_/status/474589075073019904)
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@kid_OYO
#indieweb is important part of our educational strategy at #kidOYO and @NoizIvy through its support of .@CoderDojoVA .@coderdojoli learn up!
(twitter.com/_/status/474589281957060608)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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tommorris
PEAK SILO.
#
tommorris
“silo”.reverse == “oils”
bdesham and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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tantek
tommorris WHOA
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barnabywalters
what is this magic
pfefferle joined the channel
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gRegor`
barnabywalters: I'm looking into that failing mf2-php test, the abbr value-class one...
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@NZN
RT @kid_OYO: #indieweb is important part of our educational strategy at #kidOYO and @NoizIvy through its support of .@CoderDojoVA .@coderdo
(twitter.com/_/status/474591973660438528)
#
gRegor`
It looks like it's not going through the loop twice for some reason.
#
gRegor`
I'm going to commit my other fixes though
dybskiy and dariusdunlap joined the channel
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tommorris
tantek: is your talk going to be online for non-live viewing?
#
tantek
tommorris - hope so!
#
tantek
I know at least one friend recorded it
#
tantek
I think PDF also posts talks - they have archives up of past years' talks
#
tantek
video
#
barnabywalters
gRegor`: just saw your commit
#
gRegor`
I was thrown for a bit on the use of <abbr class="value" title="[date]">
#
@Nadreck
RT @rsm: Why we need indieweb? Bc we're at peak silo now. We want you to own your identity online. -@t #PDF14 https://twitter.com/rsm/status/474581842038108160/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/474594485410607104)
#
gRegor`
But I think I get it now.
#
gRegor`
barnabywalters: Is there a better way for me to fork / PR? It's still pretty new to me. Wasn't sure if I should have made a different branch name than master.
#
barnabywalters
gRegor`: this seems to be working fine. I think some people ask contributors to squash all the commits in a PR into one, but I’m not particularly bothered about it
benwerd joined the channel
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Loqi
benwerd: aaronpk left you a message on 6/4 at 7:39pm: are you planning on coming to IWC West?
#
benwerd
aaronpk: literally having a conversation about PDX vs NYC right now
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benwerd
Leaning PDX
#
benwerd
Purely based on costs
#
benwerd
Both will be cool
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gRegor`
Definitely PDX. I mean, I'll be there. :)
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aaronpk
PDX is way cooler
#
Loqi
aaronpk: kylewm left you a message 6 hours, 37 minutes ago: tried to revoke and reauthorize, getting this error now on the callback from indieauth https://gist.github.com/kylewm/1d394827363580b9e510
#
aaronpk
Plus you should come see our new offices!
#
gRegor`
I was looking at the site last night, aaronpk. Looks like a nice place.
caseorganic joined the channel
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barnabywalters
gRegor`: I figured out why testAbbrYYYY_MM_DD__HH_MM was failing — markup bug in the test case ;)
#
barnabywalters
pulling + checking your new code now
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benwerd
aaronpk: So here's a question - might there be an opportunity to sponsor Friday drinks?
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aaronpk
Quite likely!
emmak joined the channel
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benwerd
Awesome sauce
#
gRegor`
Aha, that </a> :)
snarfed joined the channel
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werd.io
edited /2014/Guest_List (+323) "/* West */"
(view diff)
#
snarfed
emmak: glad to see you on bridgy!
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snarfed
looks like the webmentions are going through ok. let me know if i can help with anything
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /2014 (+17) "/* sponsor */ Known is sponsoring Friday pre-party! Thanks!!"
(view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /2014 (+2) "/* Help Out */"
(view diff)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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emmak
snarfed: thanks! i'm looking forward to getting backfeeds working
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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emmak
also I didn't realize you could posse to silos with bridgy, is that a new feature?
#
snarfed
emmak: newish, at least! details in https://www.brid.gy/about#publish
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snarfed
the posse part isn't too special, but the interesting part is that it can posse replies/comments, likes/favorites, and even event rsvps
#
snarfed
it's also nice that you can trigger it with a webmention to bridgy, so if you're rolling your own CMS and implement webmentions, you can use it to get posse support for free
paulcp joined the channel
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emmak
snarfed: that is super cool.
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snarfed
emmak: thanks!
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gregorlove.com
edited /User:Gregorlove.com/webmention (+23) "/* Receiving webmentions */"
(view diff)
#
@drewwestcott
RT @rsm: Why we need indieweb? Bc we're at peak silo now. We want you to own your identity online. -@t #PDF14 https://twitter.com/rsm/status/474581842038108160/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/474608269626208256)
#
gregorlove.com
edited /User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox () "(-1438) Suggested wiki CSS tweak"
(view diff)
#
gRegor`
I've always thought the level 3 headings on the wiki stand out too much because they're bold. Thoughts on this tweak? http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox#Suggested_wiki_CSS_tweak
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gRegor`
I can submit a PR if the css is on the wiki, which I presume it is.
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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@benwerd
I'm an enormous fan of http://t.co/l7mQq4or7y. Just caught up with their latest developments. It's an easy way to get onto the #indieweb.
(twitter.com/_/status/474610659624095744)
j12t joined the channel
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@jgarber
Wrapping my brain around webmention, HTTP headers, and some other seriously neckbeard shit. #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/474612207356215296)
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bear
So, as one of the resident Ops type folk here at IndieWeb … please check any personal servers for the latest OpenSSL updates -- https://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20140605.txt
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aaronpk
yeah :(
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snarfed
we need to get @neckbeardhacker to reply to that tweet
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aaronpk
luckily not quite as bad as heartbleed
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snarfed
good call bear, thanks !
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bear
yea, as openssl issues go… it's not bad
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bear
it's just hard to audit because of the different OS versions involved
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gRegor`
The icons are still showing instead of the code . . . jk
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KartikPrabhu
hey I know I fixed it... you can't trick me
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benwerd
aw, I'm just a ray of sunshine
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paulmunday.net
edited /events/2014-06-04-homebrew-website-club (+35) "/* Photos */ Added photo from PDX"
(view diff)
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snarfed
benwerd++
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Loqi
benwerd has 22 karma
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aaronpk
yay for staying positive!
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Loqi
does a happy dance!
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aaronpk
and not using scare tactics to interest people!
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KartikPrabhu
what is the thing people need cheering from... I missed it it seems
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benwerd
manufactured outrage = the rhetorical equivalent of linkbait headlines, I've decided
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KartikPrabhu
oh the Aral Balkan article
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benwerd
which isn't to say that a good thing isn't being done in the original post - I actually think the manifesto in particular reads very well
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benwerd
but yes, we're making a whole new world possible, and I think that's a more important idea
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snarfed
fear mongering works short term, but it builds fatigue long term :/
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caseorganic
!tell tantek douglas rushkoff asked if i was going to indiewebcamp nyc. i told him i was going to be at the portland one
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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bret
caseorganic you think you can talk him into coming?
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caseorganic
!tell tantek if it makes the difference between him coming or not, i might go to nyc. but i'll also try to get him to come to harvard berkman center one in oct
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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caseorganic
bret: yeah, he'd do it if i were there. but with me in portland it would not be as reasonable
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bret
hehe yeah. Hes probrably busy teaching
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bret.io
edited /Events (+0) "Moved yesterdays HWC meeting to past events"
(view diff)
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benwerd
Just got an email from someone interested in having an Indie Web Camp at their space in Stamford, CT - thinking it's probably too short to have it simultaneous in June, but passing it over. aaronpk?
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kylewm
benwerd: that's very close to NYC, isn't it?
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benwerd
is it?
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GWG
Define very
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benwerd
geographically challenged
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Loqi
GWG: petermolnar left you a message 2 hours, 21 minutes ago: I've altered the cf-post-formats by adding a radiobutton selector to the link type for webmention data ( like, reply, repost )
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GWG
It is close enough
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bret
benward it just occured to me that im not sure if I ever got a chance to say: congrats on Known!
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GWG
benward, ditto
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bret
super happy to see an indiweb project get some Knight news funding :)
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benwerd
bret: thank you! This is the most challenging thing I've ever done in my life. Also, apologies, benward, yet again. ;)
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bret
errr
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benwerd
bret: It's not News Challenge funding - it's matter.vc, which is partially Knight supported. It's a smaller pot of money but we get some very structured support, which is awesome.
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kylewm
GWG: gmaps says 1 hour drive
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GWG
Without traffic.
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GWG
There is a train
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kylewm
but driving to NYC, i have no idea what that is like or if it is possible
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bret
benwerd yeah not the challenge, but still :)
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benwerd
bret: it's extremely exciting! And thank you again :) Now we just need to back it up.
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benwerd
It does allow much more time to be spent, eg -
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benwerd
I'm on work time talking indie web right now. Which is nice.
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benwerd
And yesterday I spent all day building MySQL support.
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benwerd
Today I'm building local filesystem / S3 support for stored files & photos.
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benwerd
Those things would have taken me ages before.
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bret
i was just about to ask...
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bret
so cool
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kylewm
benwerd: that's awesome. are you using mysql like a key-value store or was it a more radical change to the datamodel?
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benwerd
kylewm: it's a variation on friendfeed's model - http://backchannel.org/blog/friendfeed-schemaless-mysql
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GWG
petermolnar, saw your fork, need to look more closely.
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bret
benwerd what does Erin get to work on?
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kylewm
benwerd: oh cool, my understanding is that is basically how reddit handled it too
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benwerd
up to this point it was using Mongo's GridFS for file storage, which becomes heinously expensive - so native file support completes the picture.
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GWG
I am hoping someday to get a pull request
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benwerd
bret: Erin is doing a lot of user research and design work, which is wonderful
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bret
rad! that stuff is so important
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benwerd
Lots of experience with ethnographic research as well as the building portions of UX design. We'll be sharing that back to the community.
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barnabywalters
benwerd: awesome! really looking foward to seeing the results
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benwerd
She'll also be talking about it at Open Source Bridge if anyone's at that (sadly I'll miss it)
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bret
im going to copy everything :p
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benwerd
iterate
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benwerd
build together
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benwerd
I love this community :)
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GWG
benwerd, it is a great one
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GWG
Then again, I give an endorsement to any community willing to put up with me
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kylewm
lol, the anti-groucho marx
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kylewm
GWG: you're contributing a lot, not too hard to put up with that ;)
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@climatebrad
.@t explains the #indieweb adoption pathway. "We want you to own your identity." #pdf14 https://twitter.com/climatebrad/status/474625197505794048/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/474625197505794048)
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bret
yeeeesssss our pyramid scheme is progressing
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bret
such an epic picture
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j12t
benwerd: how are you doing the “data model design” on top of blobs?
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j12t
it gets really messy fast when making schema changes keeping track of all the properties and relationships
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benwerd
j12t: it's no messier than using NoSQL. Essentially we're storing a JSON encapsulation of the object in the blob, for fast reconstitution
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benwerd
we're running a text search index, and some ownership and other metadata on the row itself. Metadata for searching is then a separate indexed set of tables.
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benwerd
Our model needs are very slim, so this is essentially it
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benwerd
we're kind of jimmying a document database on top of mysql.
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GWG
kylewm I hope so
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benwerd
The schema is then controlled by the object classes in the code, which provide the structure via inheritance / interfaces
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j12t
You may not know this, but I’m also the main author of a graph database called InfoGrid.org … we use the same approach to store graphs in MySQL, and other blob stores
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benwerd
We are very likely to build indexed relationship tables in addition
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benwerd
I actually did not know that
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benwerd
goes to check it out right now
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j12t
On top, the graph database has a explicit schema that’s enforced at run time
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j12t
I’m not trying to talk you into using InfoGrid
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benwerd
No, but I want to check it out nonetheless!
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j12t
although there would probably be useful use cases
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j12t
but it’s interesting to see the parallels
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j12t
cldstr.com — the app store — runs on InfoGrid
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bret
benwerd: forseeable plans for non-known posts in a known powered http://stream.withknown.com like stream?
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benwerd
bret: non-known posts meaning sucked in from elsewhere, or ..?
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bret
yeah like an h-entry from another site
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benwerd
bret: it's something we'll definitely look at. I'd like to bring in, eg, Instagram
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benwerd
but it's not something we're tackling imminently
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aaronpk
benwerd: awesome! that means adding postgres support should be pretty easy now
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benwerd
aaronpk: postgres support is likely to be around an hour's work, yeah
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aaronpk
also likely storing the data in the filesystem is easy?
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aaronpk
files named with the blob IDs?
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benwerd
aaronpk: using PDO for SQL means there's little to do to flip between the two
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benwerd
files is a little harder still because right now it's tethered tightly to Mongo, which was a mistake
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benwerd
but it'll be done by the end of the day
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aaronpk
wow so cool that you get to spend real time on this now!
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benwerd
I am still pinching myself. Loving getting the dev time - the challenge is getting really good at pitching and the sales side
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benwerd
on that note: meeting time. bbl
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bret
i bet latikoo was bummed about losing you
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@Johannes_Ernst
Is it just me, or are #indie projects suddenly erupting all over? #indieweb #indiephone #indiecomputing http://upon2020.com/banter/?p=256
(twitter.com/_/status/474634050070536192)
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bdesham
I've done a bunch of web development using microdata. I'm now looking at the Indie Web stuff, but I'm unclear on the differences between microdata, microformats, microformats2, etc. Anyone have a quick summary?
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aaronpk
microformats2 is less invasive into your existing html. it's possible to write a full h-card by doing just <a href="http://aaronparecki.com" class="h-card">Aaron Parecki</a>
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aaronpk
microformats2 is replacing microformats1 since it has much cleaner parsing rules and is more easily extensible
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bret
bdesham: microformats 2 is the newest version of microformats and is the foundation to a lot of indiweb projects relating to cross site commenting and interactions
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bdesham
so I should go with either microdata or microformats2?
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luxagraf
bdesham: I'm no expert, but basically microdata adds schemas and attributes to html elements, microformats1&2 use classnames
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aaronpk
bdesham: it depends, what is your goal?
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bret
bdesham: microdata is similar to microformats, except the schema that people use is owned and operated by google
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aaronpk
if you want to do a lot of this cross- site commenting then you should definitely use microformats2
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bdesham
I'm okay with "invasive" HTML changes, and microdata seems to have more well-defined semantics, so I might go with that
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luxagraf
bdesham: you can use both. I do.
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bret
bdesham: what is your end goal?
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bdesham
cross-site commenting would be nice to be able to do
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bdesham
I don't have a real clear set of goals otherwise ;)
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bdesham
ah, this is for a personal site, by the way
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bret
all of the cross site stuff has been done with microformats 2, and it would be a tough sell to talk people into switching and/or supporting microdata
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bret
microdata can be used for google rich snippets
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aaronpk
IMO the only reason to use microdata is for the google rich snippets
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aaronpk
cause the schema is defined by google and google is one of the only consumers of the data
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rascul
microformats2 is good stuff
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aaronpk
I keep meaning to mark up my music pages with the microdata so I get neat little icons in the search results, but that's about it
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bdesham
hmm... I don't really publish any of the kinds of information that are snippet-able, afaik
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bret
if I were to sit down and do a clean pass at my site right now I would do minimal microformats for google rich snippets and microformats2 for indieweb projects
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bret
adding microdata requires all sorts of weird additions to html tags
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bret
wheras microformats is just class names and heirarchy
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luxagraf
aaronpk: Don't Bing/Yahoo also consume microdata? they're part of schema.org anyway
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aaronpk
yeah probably. still only for search results.
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bret
bdesham: what kinds of things do you want to mark up?
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bret
blog posts?
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luxagraf
Has anyone here used microdata to markup blog posts and seen any change in how google presents your site in search results?
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luxagraf
I had microdata for years and AFAIK it made zero difference to google
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bdesham
bret: yeah, pretty much just blog posts, and some basic bio information on my "about me" page
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bdesham
luxagraf: I had the same feeling. I used microdata pretty extensively because I'm that kind of nerd, but I'm not sure it ever really did anything
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snarfed
luxagraf: you can use https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/structured-data to see what microdata/formats/etc google sees on your pages and what effect it has
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bret
luxagraf: the biggest change to my google search results came from adding authorship (getting the picture by my name)
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snarfed
(combined w/other parts of webmaster tools there)
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bret
bdesham: thats the exact same way I felt when i did it... lots of effort for little gain
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snarfed
bret++ yup, authorship is usually the big one. that and sitemaps
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Loqi
bret has 11 karma
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luxagraf
bret: yeah I tried that, google says my picture isn't clear enough which is when I snapped and dumped everything google related.
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bdesham
bret: and don't you need to use google+ for that authorship info anyway? I don't use g+
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luxagraf
snarfed: well yeah you can see theoretically how it might look with that parser, but, at least in my case the actual results were always pulled from my metadesc tags
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bret
i opened an account just for that. after turning off notifications and ignoring circles, i dont even notice it
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luxagraf
actually I'm still using microdata for some geo tags and for my breadcrumbs, so not everything
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luxagraf
I think it's just a nerd tic of mine though, why do you need microdata for breadcrumbs? other than because you can
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@pjan_stellar
RT @tjl: Atom/RSS seems a less causally powerful expl for the indieweb’s death than the IRRESISTIBLE HOMOGENIZING FORCE OF GLOBAL CAPITALIS…
(twitter.com/_/status/474640569856032769)
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snarfed
back away slowly
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rascul
good i'm not the only one
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luxagraf
does it make sense to put p-location and h-geo on the same element, or does h-geo need to be inside p-location?
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luxagraf
where the element has lat/lon in <data>
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aaronpk
i believe you would do class="p-location h-geo"
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indie-visitor
dsearls here with tantek, digging being a newbie
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aaronpk
welcome dsearls!
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aaronpk
(you can type /nick dsearls to set your nick)
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luxagraf
aaronpk: okay, thanks.
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aaronpk
luxagraf: my events have p-location h-card classes
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searls
Hey everybody.
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searls
getting my head blown up by tantek. all cool
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aaronpk
excellent
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luxagraf
aaronpk: I haven't got around to reverse geocoding my notes, so I'm going with straight h-geo for now.
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aaronpk
my notes are just reverse-geocoded to the city
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barnabywalters
greetings searls! welcome to #indiewebcamp
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luxagraf
aaronpk: I tried using twitter's api to get at least city level data (since I'm calling the api anyway) but the results are terrible
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searls
thanks. only have a minute, but will be back
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snarfed
welcome searls!
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aaronpk
luxagraf: hadn't thought about that! too bad it's not good data.
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aaronpk
ah yeah, that includes neighborhoods and such
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Loqi
tantek: caseorganic left you a message 1 hour, 47 minutes ago: douglas rushkoff asked if i was going to indiewebcamp nyc. i told him i was going to be at the portland one
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Loqi
tantek: caseorganic left you a message 1 hour, 46 minutes ago: if it makes the difference between him coming or not, i might go to nyc. but i'll also try to get him to come to harvard berkman center one in oct
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JonathanNeal
KartikPrabhu: your post is gold
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caseorganic
tantek: hey there
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KartikPrabhu
JonathanNeal: :D thanks much!
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tantek
greetings
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tantek
just got another bandwidth warning
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tantek
back to the investigation
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tantek
and it's only the 5th of the month!
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KartikPrabhu
tantek is too famous for his server!
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JonathanNeal
KartikPrabhu: are you testing in IE? Have you tested much with Safari iOS?
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aaronpk
tantek: do you run any analysis on your web server logs? like webalizer or awstats or whatever?
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KartikPrabhu
JonathanNeal: Unfortunately not. I don't have access to those on my Ubuntu machine. But I am not very worried about it as SVG fails quite gracefully
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cweiske
I use awstats
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tantek
aaronpk - I use whatever my web host has installed
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JonathanNeal
KartikPrabhu: you mean, with no icon?
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tantek
btw - just to make sure - did you guys already discuss the OpenSSL vulnerabilities disclosed today?
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aaronpk
cweiske: nice, I kind of miss stats like that. google analytics has been getting weirder lately. i'm probably gonna drop it soon.
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KartikPrabhu
yeah. I don't use icons without any text so the icon not showing up is not a big problem I think
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tantek
likely affects any client that uses OpenSSL, e.g. maybe curl? e.g. maybe everyone consuming webmentions?
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KartikPrabhu
JonathanNeal: hopefully people will read Chris Coyier's post which do talk about that instead of blindly copying my code :)
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cweiske
aaronpk, unfortunately google now does not transfer the search params in the referer anymore
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cweiske
which really sucks
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JonathanNeal
So, a few things to discover
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JonathanNeal
cross browser compatibility / fallback, accessibility of the SVG (what apps read what), and spritemap generation.
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aaronpk
oh yeah, that's too bad, that was one of my favorite part of the stats
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cweiske
for me, too
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cweiske
and now google only has the data
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KevinMarks
KartikPrabhu: your demo links have stray characters on the end
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cweiske
so they have another reason that you switch to google analytics
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KartikPrabhu
yeah my bad will fix asap :)
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KevinMarks
I think you escaped the #1
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KevinMarks
or is that a fragmention?
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bdesham
I'm guessing there's no way to export data *from* google analytics, right?
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cweiske
I don't and won't use GA
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aaronpk
they have good export options
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aaronpk
nice pdf reports if you want to send graphs to someone, or csv downloads
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KevinMarks
eg caniuse.com lets you upload your GA data to see what web features your users have
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bdesham
aaronpk: oh, interesting
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bdesham
I recently switched from hosting my website on S3 to using my own VPS, so now I have server logs I can use instead of GA
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aaronpk
interseting downside to using S3
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tantek
nm re: bandwidth warning, looks like an errant warning. got warned about 2.8GB used out of 50GB capacity (monthly.
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bdesham
yeah. S3 also makes it very difficult to issue e.g. HTTP 301s for a certain URL, and there's no URL rewriting ability at all
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tantek
oh I should tell shaners since he was asking
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bdesham
(which makes sense, it's really only supposed to be a key-value store...)
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tantek
!tell shaners my current web host setup has a 50MB/month bandwidth cap.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
er GB
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tantek
darn it
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tantek
!tell shaners not 50MB, but 50GB monthly bandwidth limit
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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cweiske
my vps has some 10TB/month
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KartikPrabhu
KevinMarks: fixed! thanks for the heads up. I put the fragments in some template tag that barfed
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cweiske
after that they cap me to 10mb/s
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tantek
cweiske nice! for how much per month?
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cweiske
30€, and I share the VPS with 2 friends
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cweiske
so everyone pays 10€
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tantek
that's a very reasonable split!
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tantek
I'm paying only slightly less - $10/mo.
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aaronpk
bdesham: would you mind adding those criticisms to http://indiewebcamp.com/S3 ?
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tantek
cweiske - could you add that to /web_hosting ?
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tantek
whoa cool
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tantek
^^^ @aaronpk :)
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aaronpk
tantek: interesting, 50GB is not a very high limit, I can see why you'd run into it every month!
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cweiske.de
edited /web_hosting (+72) "/* Virtual Private Server */"
(view diff)
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KevinMarks
glad tantek is representing at CFP - I did get a panel invite but couldn't get the logistics tight
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tantek
KevinMarks - PDF not CFP :)
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KartikPrabhu
man! had my first "spam tweet"!
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tantek
aaronpk - it used to be 25GB and they gave me a free upgrade to 50GB after hitting the 25GB limit for a few months
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aaronpk
so far I'm at 23GB used this month, but my limit is 15TB so meh
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cweiske.de
edited /web_hosting (+39) "/* Virtual Private Server */"
(view diff)
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bdesham
KevinMarks: oh, *now* I learn about S3 logs ;)
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bdesham
aaronpk: sure
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KartikPrabhu
JonathanNeal: accessibility is a good point. On my actual site I am using role=presentation on the icons as I don't really want the voice readers to read the icon. I have the actual text anyway.
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indie-visitor
hi @aaronpk thanks for your tweet.
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aaronpk
welcome!
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aaronpk
(you can set your name by typing /nick yourname)
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indie-visitor
been a long time follower of OpenID ( mine is still up magically at http://daniel.citizencontact.com )
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aaronpk
myopenid.com still not quite offline
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citizencontact
I know. Still looking for a replacement.
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cweiske
simpleid.sf.net
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cweiske
self-hosted
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aaronpk
well you can certainly use indieauth.com for that! http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth#Use_IndieAuth_for_your_OpenID
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citizencontact
Have been following the OpenID 2.0 that combines OAuth
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luxagraf
aaronpk: i seem to recall some code of yours that maps nominatim response json to h-adr... any idea offhand where I saw that?
#
aaronpk
citizencontact: yes OpenID 2 is interesting, but not a 1-1 replacement for OpenID
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aaronpk
luxagraf: hmm the only thing I can think of is this, https://github.com/geoloqi/php-simplegeo#hcard-adr-queries but that's probably not what you mean
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citizencontact
going to look into if i can test indieAuth with a similar service to myopenid.com where i can cname my domain onto a hosted solution.
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aaronpk
i think it may have been someone like barnaby or tommorris who did that with nominatim
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JonathanNeal
KartikPrabhu: so role="img" for images without representative content and role="presentation" for assistive images to content?
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tommorris
who what?
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aaronpk
citizencontact: if you just want to replace myopenid.com with another hosted solution you can just point to indieauth.com instead. check out my openid tags on aaronparecki.com
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citizencontact
Then look into this for a larger project, allowing people to send messages to congress.
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luxagraf
aaronpk: ah, okay, maybe it was
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tantek
hello citizencontact and welcome!!
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citizencontact
wondering if indieAuth is reasonable replacement for OpenID for the project. I see that Twitter connection is possible, but no Facebook Connect interoperation.
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citizencontact
thanks tantek. long time fan of yours.
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tantek
IndieAuth is definitely a big upgrade of OpenID
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tommorris
the problem there is Facbeook Connect doesn’t really tie to the URL
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cweiske
ha. where is the indieauth server that I can use without 3rdparty services?
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tantek
thanks citizencontact! are you at #PDF14?
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aaronpk
cweiske: go implement relmeauth yourself
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citizencontact
Want to allow citizens to enroll / create their own identity with their postal address.
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aaronpk
read that then come back and talk
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citizencontact
no, not this year, but my partner in this effort David Moore is there.
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tommorris
citizencontact: I’d suggest that you probably don’t want indieauth for that. you probably want some kind of multi-network authentication system. look at OmniAuth in Rails, or Django-AllAuth in Python.
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tommorris
they let you have single user account + multiple social logins from different providers
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citizencontact
or Janrain?
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aaronpk
citizencontact: lol I was jokingly talking about adding postal address support to indieauth.com (along with fax support)
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tommorris
IndieAuth is for signing in with a URL and then fulfilling that authentication using one of the social silo providers
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aaronpk
citizencontact: the key with IndieAuth is that a domain name is the primary identity, so it assumes that everyone signing in will have their own domain.
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citizencontact
I have been talking with USPS with an id that connects registered postal address with an online identity.
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aaronpk
if that is not true of your demographic then I would not suggest using it
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tommorris
much as it’d be awesome, most people don’t have a domain
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rascul
people still fax things?
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tommorris
you can’t expect the average citizen to have a domain name, even though it’d be awesome if they did
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tommorris
rascul: yes. especially in countries with poor or nonexistent broadband
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rascul
oh i didn't think about elsewhere i'm too narrow minded
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tommorris
got a family member who works in the printing industry - if you want something printed in Africa, you can’t just fling them a PDF.
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aaronpk
rascul: also faxes are often the quickest way to get a signature sent somewhere
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KevinMarks
can you rel-me to a geourl?
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KevinMarks
remembers ICBM meta
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citizencontact
I realize that is also true with OpenID at ones own domain. But this could be an option, especially for some.
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citizencontact
And Oauth will have to be part of it anyway.
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tommorris
KevinMarks: that would imply that you are the controller of the URL. the SemWeb pedant draws an important distinction between the URL and the underlying thing.
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tommorris
also, topography isn’t 2D.
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KevinMarks
geourls have elevation
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tommorris
saying I own the lat,long where my flat is is probably mess than ideal for the people in the flats below mine.
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tommorris
s/mess/less/
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Loqi
tommorris meant to say: saying I own the lat,long where my flat is is probably less than ideal for the people in the flats below mine.
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citizencontact
@t tantek. perhaps you could catch up with David Moore @ppolitics and you two could chat.
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tantek.com
edited /OpenID (+312) "add empty IndieWeb Examples section for self-providers, and consuming sites"
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KevinMarks
I was thinking more of an auth that is geo bounded
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tommorris
too easy to fake
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citizencontact
Also, is there any thought of using MicroData as I am very happy with this as a standard?
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tommorris
citizencontact: again, the social login systems like Omniauth and Allauth provide OpenID support. if you support OpenID, then indieauth people can log into it.
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tommorris
citizencontact: indieweb people mostly use microformats2, but there are weird exceptions (I’m an RDFa fanboy).
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cweiske.de
edited /OpenID (+64) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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cweiske.de
edited /OpenID (+2) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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citizencontact
In US, the postal service provides the best system to identify the address of a person, especially for jurisdictions as the Zip+4 is used for many political lines. Geo would not work.
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tantek
thanks cweiske - that was what I was hoping for! :)
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cweiske
but I delegate to id.cweiske.de
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tantek
citizencontact, W3C has abandoned microdata by the way
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citizencontact
tommorris: thanks, will look into those as more flexible log in system
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tantek
we did learn lessons from microdata though
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citizencontact
tantek, And WHATWG?
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tantek
and used those lessons in the design of an even simpler, more efficient, and easier to use (add to markup) microformats2
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tommorris
citizencontact: the problem with that is there’s ambiguity (multiple people at one address, sometimes multiple people with the same name at one address), there’s reuse of identifiers (as the mail I get for previous tenants attests to)
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tantek
citizencontact, microdata is still one of the leftovers in the "HTML living standard" but no one really cares about it except for Google pushing it for their own semi-proprietary/oligopolic "schema.org"
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citizencontact
my interest in Microdata has a bit to do with the itemid feature and the possiblity of putting a "schema" similar to XML schema at the itemtype.
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cweiske
microformats allow that, too
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tommorris
citizencontact: well, RDFa exists for that for the kind of rich (or perhaps overly-bloated and impractical) semantics. microformats2 is a fair bit simpler.
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tantek
wow that "putting a schema similar to XML schema at the itemtype" sounds like architecture astronomy!
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tantek
yes the itemid feature is useful and microformats2 re-uses it from microdata
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citizencontact
I agree that RDFa is impractical. but Microdata is much better, object oriented and data friendly
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tantek
well, itemid is actually *rarely* useful
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tantek
in fact, in common #indieweb use-cases, we've never had any need for itemid
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citizencontact
I am working on a standard for legal citations, and itemid has a great use case for that and other things.
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tantek
however, if you want to discuss "edge case" features like that, it's probably more appropriate for the #microformats channel
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tommorris
also, the assumption that one address = a simple way to collect data about residents is problematic. here in the UK, the census gets sent out on a per-household basis and filled in on a per-household basis. I’ve read far too many papers about census methodology.
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tantek
usually we try to scope discussions here to those that have some concrete #indieweb use-case
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tantek
s/use-case/use-cases
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: usually we try to scope discussions here to those that have some concrete #indieweb use-cases
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tommorris
people often don’t give particularly accurate answers to some of the more personal questions about religion or sexuality if their parents or spouse are going to read it. ;)
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tantek
citizencontact: are you publishing legal citations on your own site?
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tommorris
but I am going off topic.
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citizencontact
I have been looking at Microformats, especially when Microsoft Smart Tags disintergrated.
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tantek
citzencontact it wasn the first to disintegrate
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tantek
s/wasn/wasn't
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: citzencontact it wasn't the first to disintegrate
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citizencontact
No, but I am in OASIS/LegalXML citations standards group.
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tantek
oh dear
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tantek
quite far from #indieweb ;)
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tommorris
citizencontact: so, in the indieweb/microformats communities, there’s a very pragmatic publish-first-legislate-later model around standards
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citizencontact
I have been doing indieweb like things for over 15 years.
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tantek
in general the "standards" discussions here tend to be about - what is the minimum possible spec/standard that works for simple indieweb sites, and is easily implementable
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tommorris
like, the first question that people like tantek and others here is “let’s see a web page where this is published"
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tantek
tommorris: indeed, though that's just the empiricism test from scientific method
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tantek
citizencontact: great! what's your personal site?
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tantek
citizencontact: btw do you have a citation for the disintegration (dropping support of) Microsoft Smart Tags? I'd like to document that
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tantek
I've documented a bunch of other failures and patterns here: http://microformats.org/2012/06/25/microformats-org-at-7
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citizencontact
one that is old, but has some of my work/ideas is: http://advocatehope.org/
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citizencontact
and my openid profile page is http://daniel.citizencontact.com/
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tommorris
tantek: a few years ago, O’Reilly asked me if I could write a book on GDATA. I’d almost forgotten that was a thing.
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KevinMarks
the utility bill is a common standard for identity verification
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tantek
so that's probably the best example then - http://daniel.citizencontact.com/ cool
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tantek
tommorris - O'Reilly has a *very bad* track record with books about metadata standards
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tantek
they've never asked for a book about microformats, yet they published one on FBML
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tantek
for example
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aaronpk
"they've never asked" is probably more like "nobody has come forward to offer to write one"
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citizencontact
I've followed microformats for many years
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tantek
citizencontact: great - looks like you already have URLs to your Twitter etc. on there - if you hyperlink them and add rel="me" to the <a href> you should be able to get IndieAuth working
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citizencontact
can not add HTML into the openid profile page. looking for another openid hoster. otherwise I would.
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tantek
aaronpk - well there is the flipside of, if a technology is too simple, and it's publicly documented for free on the web, there's less reason to write and sell a book about it
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aaronpk
actually they said my OAuth 2 book is one of the few that is about a protocol rather than a specific language or technology
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tantek
aaronpk - thought they had a TCP/IP others too
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tantek
back from the unix days
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tantek
citizencontact: wait, just noticed you're using MyOpenID - you do they've supposed to have shutdown by now right?
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aaronpk
I said "one of the few" :)
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tantek
aaronpk - few protocols are actually needed ;)
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citizencontact
tantek and aaronpk: David Moore and I are starting an effort to allow citizens to use social networks to communicate with congress.
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citizencontact
tantek: and it has gone down several times. just cant find another hosted solution.
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tantek
citizencontact: IndieAuth supports openid for you
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citizencontact
hosted so I can bring my domain? or do I have to stand up my own server?
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tantek
aaronpk? ^^^ sounds like a good FAQ
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esham.io
edited /Amazon_S3 (+803) "Added a list of considerations and a link to some setup instructions"
(view diff)
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kylewm
luxagraf: hey catching up on logs. barnaby wrote this for nominatum -> h-adr https://gist.github.com/barnabywalters/8318401
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kylewm
i referenced it recently for a python impl
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aaronpk
citizencontact: you don't need to run it yourself, you can just delegate to indieauth.com
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KevinMarks
hosted works - I use indieauth for kevinmarks.com openid
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tantek
"post colonial internet" - phrase just heard at #PDF14
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citizencontact
aaronpk: so I host the page and just use HTML tags?
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tantek
feels very resonant with indieweb ideals
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aaronpk
I should make this page more useful https://indieauth.com/openid
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KevinMarks
GData is still kind of a thing, in that Google still supports those atompub APIs. but it is no longer ideologically mandated
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Loqi
yea!
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tantek
KevinMarks, yeah, Google's ideological mandating is a trailing indicator
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aaronpk
citizencontact: even easier, you just make sure your existing home page links to your twitter/github/etc profile, then add the openid delegate tags that are listed here http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth#Use_IndieAuth_for_your_OpenID
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KevinMarks
that was one of my big internal fights (wanting to use JSON rather than gdata for opensocial)
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citizencontact
aaronpk: great. I will attempt it and just use my own plone server and delegate. thanks.
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tantek
citizencontact, you could just *copy* and *fork* the markup from your hosted OpenID page, put it up as a static page, and make the improvements aaronpk speaks of
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KartikPrabhu
JonathanNeal: I used role=presentation following this blurb: http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#presentation . I think it should be used only when there is some actual descriptive text with it
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citizencontact
tantek: but I cant edit the HTML in the page, just plain text.
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tantek.com
edited /OpenID (+36) ""* ... add yourself" bullets for IndieWeb Examples to encourage more"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
citizencontact: you can just copy the HTML then host it somewhere else like on your own personal domain
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tantek
citizencontact: yes you can - view source, save as index.html, edit in text editor :)
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tantek
perhaps we should write this up as a transition strategy for MyOpenID profiles
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aaronpk
likely deserves its own page rather than just a section on the indieauth page
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citizencontact
tantek: yes, i can host a home page and edit the HTML. Move off the disappearing myopenid. Yes, Tantek, that would be very helpful.
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bdesham
I tried to log in to the wiki with my domain name and the options were twitter and email
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bdesham
The email choice took me to a Persona site
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bdesham
Would I have to have created a Persona account to use that?
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bdesham
(I went with Twitter because I know what's going on there)
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tantek
bdesham - or add persona support to your personal domain
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tantek
and yes, Twitter UX for identity / sign-in is easier than Persona
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tantek
so I don't blame you
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aaronpk
bdesham: yeah it uses Persona for email auth. in theory persona doesn't require a mozilla persona account but in practice that's the easier way to go
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tantek
I should add a similar IndieWeb Examples page to that
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tantek
er, section to that page
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Loqi
definitely
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rascul
you can self host persona if you want but i trust mozilla for that
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citizencontact
I like this. Wish I could pay for the hosting, even if small amount, so it can be self sustaining. Would have paid Janrain for Myopenid if they had asked.
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aaronpk
wonder if it's worth adding an option to email you a code similar to sms auth so people don't need to figure out persona
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citizencontact
hosting of indieauth.com/openid
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tantek
rascul, you shouldn't have to
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aaronpk
citizencontact: aw thanks! right now the best mechanism for that is probably gittip https://www.gittip.com/aaronpk/ (expenses are documented http://indiewebcamp.com/expenses )
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bdesham
aaronpk: that's what I thought was going to happen until I saw the persona screen
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bdesham
it would be nice if authy/google authenticator were an option, although I don't think that makes any sense in this context
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aaronpk
bdesham: they are actually, after you sign in once from another mechanism
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citizencontact
aaronpk: it is about the missing piece for me of indieweb. by paying, it is a form of a contract.
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bdesham
niiice
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aaronpk
citizencontact: I'm thrilled to hear you are willing to pay for using indieauth.com
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citizencontact
tantek: liked your point about the similarities of profiles: my twitter/facebook/googleplus are so similar. if i can host my own profile page, with my own look and feel that would be the coup de grace.
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aaronpk
citizencontact: "host my own profile" -- isn't that having your own website?
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citizencontact
aaronpk: would hope that you charged and then made it a consumer contract.
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citizencontact
aaronpk: no, because i needed to point my domain to myopenid.com's web page and I can not edit much on it.
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aaronpk
i feel like openid really threw a lot of wrenches into this whole thing, it should be much simpler than "pointing my domain to myopenid.com"
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citizencontact
profile page= openid url
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aaronpk
so in the case of indieauth, your profile page == your home page, no need for two
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tantek.com
edited /Persona (+545) "dfn, IndieWeb Examples, see also"
(view diff)
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citizencontact
aaronpk: that is excellent.
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citizencontact
aaronpk: best would be a registrar that included the indieauth/openid profile page for people. I have gotten people to switch to their own domains and then use google apps for email, etc. but their openid is not quite right for that solution IMO.
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tantek
anyone consume Persona directly on their own webiste, or have implemented being their own Persona provider? http://indiewebcamp.com/Persona#IndieWeb_Examples
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tantek
who asked the Web Stats questions?
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aaronpk
i believe I asked if you had web server logs (since I know you don't use GA or other JS logs)
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cweiske
I thought about hosting persona myself, but don't use any tools/sites that require it
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cweiske
and tantek about sites that use openid login - I manage some typo3-based websites for our kindergarden, soccer club etc - they all require openid login for the backend
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cweiske
not "indie web" sites, though
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citizencontact
I have played with using OpenID for plone Intranet sites. Works fine.
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citizencontact
aaronpk: thanks for responding to my tweet. you have been very helpful.
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aaronpk
citizencontact: you're welcome! feel free to drop by here any time
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citizencontact
tantek: a great pleasure to chat with you. been a fan since ... long time. hope you can ring in on our #social2congress project.
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tantek
citizencontact - I'm wondering if maybe Web Sign-in in general is something that could work for that
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tantek
IndieAuth is a specific Web Sign-in implementation (the best one so far) that *does* focus on the IndieWeb
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tantek
technically, any OAuth provider can provide Web Sign-in
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tantek
just wanted to leave you with that http://microformats.org/wiki/web-sign-in
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tantek
there's still a personal site bias, but it can technically be done with profiles on silos too
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tantek
cweiske - good to know about your experience with managing Openid logins on sites. If you'd like, feel free to add that in an "Additional Examples" section on the page.
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tantek
aaronpk - thanks, just stubbing an /analysis page now
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citizencontact
tantek: It is a complex issue, identity, especially fighting the silos. been trying since the days of AOL IM. I will look into indieAuth more.
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citizencontact
tantek: thanks
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cweiske
the wiki really should pre-fill my domain in the login prompt
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aaronpk
cookied?
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cweiske
I use that with phorkie to pre-fill the openid
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cweiske
so I only have to press return to login
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citizencontact
all: ciao
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aaronpk
it used to, not sure what happened
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cweiske.de
edited /OpenID (+113) "add additional examples"
(view diff)
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bdesham
so indiewebify.me implies that I should have my h-card info on my site's front page, but most of that info is actually on an "about me" page. is it particularly important to have an h-card right on the front page?
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tantek.com
edited /OpenID (+123) "move Additional Examples just below IndieWeb Examples for easier discover, add context"
(view diff)
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lupinedev
hi everyone! i lurked a little this morning. pretty new to most of this stuff but want to start POSSE-ing some of my social media posts soon.
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KartikPrabhu
bdesham: you can have a partial h-card on the homepage and link to your about page
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JonathanNeal
KartikPrabhu: in your own words, would you describe when you would use img vs presentation?
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cweiske.de
edited /OpenID (+2) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
(view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
looks up img
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kylewm
welcome lupinedev! do you have a personal site set up already?
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lupinedev
kylewm: yeah, and i logged in to indiewebcamp.com using indie auth once a little while back
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kylewm
nice!
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tantek.com
created /analysis (+658) "stub this out to capture a few things, and not sure where else to put it (or if it already exists)"
(view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /Main_Page (+0) "/* Homebrew Website Club */"
(view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
JonathanNeal: My impression from reading the ARIA roles stuff is: img = and image that is actually the content of the post for instance illustrations and photos. presentation = image/elements used purely for decoration/aesthetics and don't add new content.
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bdesham
KartikPrabhu: should I use u-url for that kind of link?
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kylewm
aaronpk: in light of Google Analytics not showing search terms anymore, you should know your site was near the top for "ubuntu openssl version" when I searched for it earlier ;)
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lupinedev
kylewm: thanks! Learned a lot being a fly on the wall in here already. Will speak up more when i have more questions :)
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aaronpk
kylewm: nice! thanks :)
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KartikPrabhu
bdesham: you could just use <a class="h-card" href="/about">Your Name</a> the p-name and u-url can be implied from just that. See the footer of my site where I do that: https://kartikprabhu.com/
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bdesham
KartikPrabhu: oh, that would be ideal! thanks
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@benwerd
@segphault We're working on a self-hosted, #indieweb publishing platform you might be interested in: http://withknown.com
(twitter.com/_/status/474672056337170432)
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KartikPrabhu
bdesham: microformats is pretty flexible. when in doubt just test your markup with http://waterpigs.co.uk/php-mf2/? or https://kartikprabhu.com/connection/mfparser :)
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tantek
aaronpk, kylewm, I wrote this up based on what I understood from above, would appreciate your contributions (since I'm a bit of a a stats/site-analysis amateur) http://indiewebcamp.com/analysis
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gRegor`
Does it make sense to say all times are Pacific unless otherwise specified on the HWC event pages?
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gRegor`
vs. just specifying the timezone for each one
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aaronpk
all times are local times
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aaronpk
for each location
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gRegor`
Yesterday's HWC said "All times are Pacific Time unless otherwise noted in venues."
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gRegor`
But yeah, local time was my understanding from previous ones.
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gRegor`
Looks like tantek added that line
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cweiske.de
edited /analysis (-41) "/* Software */"
(view diff)
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gRegor`
I just duplicated it for the 6/18 one for now
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tantek
thanks gRegor
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bdesham
KartikPrabhu: cool!
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tantek
aaronpk - yeah I tried to figure out how to document the NYC meetup being same time as PDX etc.
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tantek
and the "all times are local" seemed more confusing than not
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tantek
from that point of view - so I modified it accordingly
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gRegor`
Ah
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tantek
also it was kind of cool to be online / participating *at the same time*
#
tantek
and it wasn't *too* late in NYC
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gRegor`
Indeed.
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tantek
we got snacks & drinks
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aaronpk
yaeh that's awesome! I hope we can do more concurrent events like that!
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gRegor`
KartikPrabhu: if/when our HWC gets bigger, the Panera just a couple blocks south on Michigan might work.
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GWG
tantek, still upset that I missed it
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gRegor`
Or if we just need more space. I ate there before last night and it wasn't very busy.
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KartikPrabhu
gregor`: cross that street when we come to it ;)
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tantek
so maybe we should default to PDT
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tantek
and synchrony
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@skinny
RT @benwerd: If you enjoyed @t's awesome talk at #pdf14, head here to learn more: http://indiewebcamp.com
(twitter.com/_/status/474673759971180545)
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tantek
just a thought
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gRegor`
I presume they have later hours too, if we wanted to sychro with others.
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gRegor`
tantek: Do separate h-events make sense now that we're having 3, sometimes 4?
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tantek
gRegor`, KartikPrabhu to be clear, you guys do Chicago HWC however works best for you
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tantek
gRegor`: I think separate h-events may make sense for *separate start times*
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gRegor`
Sure, wasn't feeling any pressure. Could be cool. :)
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gRegor`
Could be cool to synchro, that is.
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tantek
but if there's a critical mass of HWC meetups at the same exact time, then perhaps that's just a multi-location event, including being remote visitable
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GWG
tantek, how about utc?
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aaronpk
UTC is less readable. I have an easier time reading east coast times converting them to pacific than UTC
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tantek
UTC is not very readable - and the times would scare people away ;)
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tantek
if we suddenly get a majority of UK HWC meetups, then we can re-assess ;)
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GWG
there must be a tech solution for that
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KartikPrabhu
gregor`: we could try syncing up... but we don't have video/mics and all that anyway do we?
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gRegor`
True
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kylewm
moment.js?
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gRegor`
Plus likely obnoxious since it's a public place
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gRegor`
I'm fine with Intelligentsia still
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KartikPrabhu
yeah me too. we can move if the group gets bigger
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tantek
hmm still being hit by a lot of bots
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tantek
as in > 90% of my traffic
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gRegor`
Use an EMP
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gRegor`
Oh, not physical bots
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tantek
haha - I thought maybe EMP was some server software
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aaronpk
gRegor`++
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Loqi
awesome
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gRegor`
But seriously, wow. That's a lot.
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gRegor`
Loqi, why don't you like my backtick?
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Loqi
woot!
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gRegor`
That's not an answer, Loqi
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aaronpk
hey I fixed that, Loqi
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gRegor`
Yeah, stop eating code, Loqi
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tantek
most hits from UA: Mozilla/5.0 (compatible
#
tantek
second most from UA: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible
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tantek
MSIE 5.5
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tantek
Windows NT 5.0)
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tantek
which I think is a bad bot lying
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aaronpk
that looks sufficiently generic to be a lie
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gregorlove.com
edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+36) "/* RSVP */ +Chicago"
(