#indiewebcamp 2014-06-05

2014-06-05 UTC
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acegiak GWG: yeah you'd have to write something separate to scrape all your content
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acegiak the main aadvantage i saw for that method was ease of multireplies
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acegiak but theyre the mst fringe usecase
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GWG multireplies?
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@timoni RT @t: NYC last-minute plan by @j & me: Homebrew Website Club meetup NYC TONIGHT 20:30 Ace Hotel Lobby http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-06-04-homebrew-website-club (ttk.me t4WR1) (twitter.com/_/status/474344094282838016)
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aaronpk what is a multireply?
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Loqi A multiple reply (multireply) is a reply written directly in response to multiple previous posts http://indiewebcamp.com/multireply
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iamshane.com created /shaners (+31) "/shaners redirect to User:Iamshane.com" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/474329990897860609/474344094282838016 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-06-04-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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GWG aaronpk: That's a new one
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GWG acegiak: Seems to be an edge case
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GWG HWC in NYC and I'm missing it. Darn
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gRegor` Strange, acegiak. Loqi should pick up the first sentence with your <dfn> and show that.
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Loqi is done
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gRegor` who is gRegor`
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Loqi gRegor Morrill is a software engineer living in Chicago, Illinois http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com
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aaronpk GWG: /b 21
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aaronpk GWG: oops. meant to say what is a new one?
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snarfed acegiak: i've actually found myself multireplying recently when someone posses something and i want my reply to be visible in the silo too
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snarfed fwiw
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GWG aaronpk: To me. Multireply
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Loqi [mention] http://aegibson.com/fragmentions-linking-to-any-text/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention (pingback)
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GWG snarfed: Do you have an example of that?
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snarfed GWG: looking
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aaronpk oh! yes, somewhat a rare occurrence but there's some documented examples there
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snarfed GWG: (looking on https://snarfed.org/responses )
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snarfed slightly different, but here's a multirepost: https://snarfed.org/2014-04-21_twitter-t-going-to-homebrew-website-club
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GWG Is it worth building or only allowing one URL and requiring people to manually mark up the second?
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KartikPrabhu multireply example for POSSEd posts: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/url-hide
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aaronparecki.com edited /User:Acegiak.net (+1) (view diff)
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GWG I'll ask again...
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GWG Is it worth building or only allowing one URL and requiring people to manually mark up the second?
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snarfed GWG: maybe no one had a strong opinion
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snarfed if it's a rare use case, and manual markup works, i'd say don't bother
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snarfed aaronpk: i assume we're using talky for video tonight?
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snarfed !tell aaronpk, tantek let's use https://talky.io/hwc tonight? still setting up here, but will be there soon
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG So, now I need to find the code to add a URL box above the content editor.
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GWG It requires some fiddling apparently
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aaronpk snarfed: great!
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Loqi aaronpk: snarfed left you a message 3 minutes ago: let's use https://talky.io/hwc tonight? still setting up here, but will be there soon
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KevinMarks hm, looking at http://aws.amazon.com/developers/getting-started/browser/ and wondering how that could become an indieAuth permission
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GWG KevinMarks: Did you ever decide on East vs West?
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acegiak GWG: I'd say manual markup for seconds is fine
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aaronpk KevinMarks: what do you mean?
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acegiak I'm planning on just using the Advanced Custom Fields plugin for things like url boxes etc
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GWG acegiak: Why? The coding for that is simple.
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acegiak but if the plugin is already there why reqrite the code?
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aaronpk i'm on the talky.io now
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snarfed joining
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aaronpk oh wait I need to switch networks, hold on
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acegiak joining to listen in?
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snarfed acegiak: think i see you. long hair, headphones?
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acegiak yearp
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snarfed heh. hi!
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GWG acegiak, must disagree with that this time. You need consistency in custom fields
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acegiak GWG: so using the taxonomy plugin as a way of enforcing that consistency?
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acegiak I like that approach
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GWG Yes. In the field name
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acegiak works for me
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acegiak so the way you've got it set up at the moment only allows for a post to be one "kind" so I'm modding the version I'm running to allow multiples
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GWG acegiak, you can change that by removing one line.
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acegiak cause "like and reblog" is my most common use case
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aaronpk I just realized what's going on with acegiak's user page not showing the dfn
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aaronpk i'm naively checking if there's already a p-summary tag and not automatically generating it from the dfn line
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/mediawiki-mf2-dfn/blob/master/dfn.php#L10
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aaronparecki.com edited /User:Acegiak.net (+31) "add explicit p-summary tag" (view diff)
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aaronpk who is acegiak?
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Loqi Acegiak is a web and game developer from Adelaide, South Australia http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Acegiak.net
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aaronpk yay
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Loqi giggles
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acegiak ok so not me
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acegiak yaaay
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GWG acegiak, just remove the call to the object
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acegiak irc from phone because talky lags my awful connection
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acegiak GWG: yeah have done
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acegiak Im just mentioning it
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GWG I borrowed the radio button code anyway
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acegiak yeah fair enough
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acegiak snarfed: looks like my rubbish connection can't handle the talky
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aaronpk snarfed: i moved my camera directly under the tv, maybe that will help with hte echo?
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snarfed trying!
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GWG aaronpk, headphones?
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aaronpk ooh wow it is loud and dark in NY
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Loqi tantek: snarfed left you a message 48 minutes ago: let's use https://talky.io/hwc tonight? still setting up here, but will be there soon
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aaronpk i don't think video to NY is going to work
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snarfed agreed
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kylewm GWG: we should have had HWC Florida
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GWG kylewm, where are you?
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kylewm Titusville, near Cape Canaveral
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GWG I am in the south. Going home Friday morning
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acegiak Am I the only australian? that seems improbable
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iamshane.com edited /Homesteading (+0) "corrected /articles short code url to /b from /a" (view diff)
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iamshane.com edited /Homesteading (-7) "updated permalink structure documentation" (view diff)
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kylewm acegiak: Iceland: 2, Australia: 1. you need to start recruiting!
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-06-04-homebrew-website-club (+396) "/* Notes */" (view diff)
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bret aaronpk: I'll be at Esri in a few mins
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bret I'll text you when I'm there
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aaronpk ah sweet
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acegiak kylewm: according to emily my recruitment efforts at parties are sometimes excessive
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iamshane.com edited /Homesteading () "(-5411) Removed IndieMark section. It's out of date and doesn't display well on the wiki." (view diff)
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kylewm acegiak++ for excessive recruiting activities :)
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Loqi acegiak has 3 karma
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acegiak hahah
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kylewm benwerd++ for MySQL support in Known!
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Loqi benwerd has 21 karma
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iamshane.com edited /Homesteading (-100) "updated Open Source section with link to GH org" (view diff)
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tantek has just been preparing for his IndieWeb talk at PDF2014: http://personaldemocracy.com/program
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aaronpk craig from genshi box is here this week!
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tantek ooh genshi box is a real thing!!!
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tantek or at least there's a real person behind it :)
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tantek @j is talking about how her Twitter was compromised
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tantek apparently the attackers did not attack her domain name
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KartikPrabhu still does not understand the <single-letter Twitter attack obsession
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bret aaronpk: Ok downstairs!
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aaronpk bret: brt!
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tantek ok leaning back to take a photo
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tantek OH: "before there was the word selfie, there was tanteking"
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gRegor` Hah
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tantek I blame adactio (who I think coined the term )
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KartikPrabhu ha!
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GWG Who is @j
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shaners https://twitter.com/j
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iamshane.com edited /User:Iamshane.com (+9) "/* Other Projects */" (view diff)
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iamshane.com edited /User:Iamshane.com (+9) "/* indieweb support */" (view diff)
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iamshane.com edited /User:Iamshane.com (-42) "removed duplicate section" (view diff)
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GWG Every time I put in twitter.com/j it autocompletes to twitter.com/justinbieber
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GWG Grrr
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GWG Okay. Juliette Melton...not familiar with the name.
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: figured out how to escape the SVG (finally!) in DJango
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gRegor` woot!
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Loqi yay!
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snarfed sf says break a leg tomorrow tantek!
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tantek thanks snarfed!!!
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tantek ok looks like we're all shut down for the night?
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iamshane.com edited /User:Iamshane.com (-306) "added dfn tag for Loqi 'who is shaners' support" (view diff)
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shaners who is shaners
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Iamshane.com
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shaners who is Shaners
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Iamshane.com
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shaners I didn't do something right :/
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shaners who is aaronpk
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aaronpk !tell benwerd are you planning on coming to IWC West?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Aaron Parecki is the co-founder of IndieWebCamp, currently the CTO of Esri R&D Center, Portland http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Aaronparecki.com
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gRegor` shaners: I don't think the regex works with the <span>s inside the <dfn>
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shaners gRegor` ok. i'll try it without.
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gRegor` You could try an explicit p-summary instead of the <dfn>. That's what i have on mine currently.
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kylewm aaronpk: low urgency bug report: OwnYourGram seems to have stopped picking up my updates. publishing still works when I log in to OYG and click Test Post, but they stopped sending manually. (I recently revoked the app key and readded it when I changed to https)
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iamshane.com edited /User:Iamshane.com (-2) "/* Shane Becker */" (view diff)
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kylewm s / manually / automatically
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shaners who is shaners
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Iamshane.com
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gRegor` Hm
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iamshane.com edited /User:Iamshane.com (-125) "/* Shane Becker */" (view diff)
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shaners who is shaners
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Iamshane.com
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shaners grrr
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KartikPrabhu what kind of stuff do people put in the dfn on user pages?
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gRegor` The regex seems to work. aaronpk edited acegiak's page to make it work earlier, but he just added a line between the heading and the text, which you have already
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aaronpk i actually added the explicit p-summary markup to make acegiak's work
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gRegor` Ah. Hm.
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iamshane.com edited /User:Iamshane.com (-353) "trying to get my whois working" (view diff)
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gRegor` shaners: Try the p-summary without a dfn
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gRegor` who is shaners
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Loqi Shane Becker is the co-founder of Hypernova which is making Homesteading http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Iamshane.com
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gRegor` winner, winner
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aaronpk the dfn trick is really only needed for article pages, probably better to use p-summary explicitly for user pages
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gRegor` Ok
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gregorlove.com edited /Loqi (+31) "/* Commands and Queries */ clarify use of p-summary to get user info" (view diff)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /User:Kartikprabhu.com (+103) "added dfn" (view diff)
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@genshi Meeting with #indiewebcamp homebrew club. Seeing how we could work together on my genshi.box http:///login?continue=%2Fgenshi%2Fcheckin%2F538fdb25498e00bb79162516 (twitter.com/_/status/474382927263186944)
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acegiak GWG: https://github.com/acegiak/indieweb-taxonomy/commit/0556a8c7b9458cab3f3a29db55383f3f53313c0e
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GWG acegiak: You have like as metadata as opposed to a taxonomy though
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GWG acegiak: So, you have title and citation otherwise?
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Kartikprabhu.com (+31) "p-summary" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Kartikprabhu.com (-31) "revert" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+28) "/* Introduction */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (-28) (view diff)
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GWG acegiak: What do you put in each field usually?
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post-by-email uploaded /File:20140605-030447.jpg "Uploaded via email by Paul M <tallpaul@ml1.net>"
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acegiak GWG: Good point, I don't need the checkbox for like because if it's in that taxonomy it's automatically a like
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GWG Yes.
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acegiak GWG: target is always populated with the url of the target/thing
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acegiak and title is whatever I want to display as the human readable name of that element
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GWG You have title and citation, correct? So, that is the external link and the title you want to style for it?
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GWG You just answered, disregard. I was still typing.
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GWG But, why not use the Wordpress title for that?
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acegiak citation is what I put in the blockquote
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GWG Oh
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GWG That was where I was confused.
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acegiak GWG: often they're the same, but sometimes I'll change the wordpress title if I'm replying in a more verbose way
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GWG So, it is the section you wish to cite?
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acegiak yeah, which is sometimes all, or sometimes a quote
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GWG You also have something like pfefferle's reply context, where it pulls it in automatically
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acegiak if you want to see how I'm doing things currently without the taxonomy it's documented on my userpage in the wiki? I think the screenshots help
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GWG My plan is always to build manual data entry and add automatic later.
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acegiak GWG: I currently have whisperfollow to prepopulate a mini form which I'm planning on extracting out into a modal and submitting results via ajax
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GWG Well, my design plan is, as mentioned, to build the manual data entry. The automatic can be a separate plugin, so you can extract from the source of your choice.
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GWG I also want to put the URL above the content box
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acegiak yeah it would be nice to have those fields up top
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GWG I was looking at Barnaby Walter's post UI
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GWG http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/new
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GWG This is his notes one
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@paraspandya How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open (twitter.com/_/status/474390331602239488)
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GWG Have you ever seen the Post Formats UI plugin that was supposed to be Wordpress core?
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GWG https://github.com/crowdfavorite/wp-post-formats
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GWG Have a look at this
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GWG It uses javascript to change the display based on a selected post format.
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acegiak man, that's awesome
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GWG It was supposed to be in core.
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GWG But it was pulled out of 3.6
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GWG The...post meta box switching it does is something I would consider adopting.
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acegiak yeah I want to javascript away the non-relevant input fields when kinds aren't selected
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@benwerd Thanks @schnarfed for hosting Homebrew Website Club SF this week! Lots of interesting #indieweb conversations. (twitter.com/_/status/474393730376421376)
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GWG acegiak: Do you know Javascript? I've never really done much with it
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acegiak yeah. I use jquery for most of it
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acegiak I could do a hack-y thing where I throw in some code that listens for the kind checkboxes/radiobuttons being toggled and then hide or display the divs, I'm just wondering if there's a proper wordpress way to do it
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GWG acegiak: Not really from what I can see.
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acegiak then I'll do it the hack-y way when I get back
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acegiak heading out to a meeting, bbl
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GWG But, a checkbox for response that shows the URL box above the editor would be useful.
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GWG Okay
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GWG acegiak: I may work on some things
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acegiak cool
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GWG tantek: You are good at naming things. I need a name for something
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tantek good evening
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GWG tantek: Good evening.
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GWG tantek: I need a name for the set that includes the URL that a note is in response to, an optional citation within same, etc.
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GWG tantek: Sorry I missed you in NYC
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tantek hmmm will think about it
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KartikPrabhu tantek: how was HWC NYC?
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@Nymble_Me RT @benwerd: Thanks @schnarfed for hosting Homebrew Website Club SF this week! Lots of interesting #indieweb conversations. (twitter.com/_/status/474403885319475200)
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gRegor` !tell barnabywalters I sent a PR for mf2-php
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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bret woo new tantek talk :D there is going to be a video right?!
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KartikPrabhu I hope so!
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@betolive Recomendado: http://www.windley.com/archives/2014/06/building_a_universal_silo.shtml Centralized Silos (Internet of APPL, GOOG, FB) vs. Decentralized (Open Internet of) #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/474415416262283264)
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aaronpk kylewm: I think ownyourgram stopped working cause you are redirecting http to https and it's still sending to the http endpoint
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aaronpk so the post request fails on the redirect
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snarfed.org edited /events/2014-06-04-homebrew-website-club (+730) "/* Notes */ SF notes" (view diff)
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snarfed.org edited /events/2014-06-04-homebrew-website-club (-2) "/* Notes */ minor" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Main_Page (+5) "/* IndieWebCamp 2014 */ fix address on home page" (view diff)
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psyhigh.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+321) "/* West */" (view diff)
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gRegor` Flight for IWC west purchased!
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psyhigh.com edited /User:Psyhigh.com (+93) (view diff)
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psyhigh.com edited /User:Psyhigh.com (+8) (view diff)
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aaronpk gRegor`: YAY!
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Loqi woot
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aaronparecki.com edited /how-to-sponsor (+1849) "add info about locations" (view diff)
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GWG gRegor`: No New York pizza for you
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GWG !tell acegiak I seem to have put location as a field in there.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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cweiske is there a standalone give-me-the-url-and-i-give-you-json mf2-parser software I can host internally?
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gRegor` GWG: Yeah, but the dream of the '90s is alive in Portland
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cweiske like aaronpk's pin13.net
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GWG gRegor`: Trying to think of a witty retort to that, but I'm tired, so I'm just going to go to bed.
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: there is php-mf2 https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2 (which is what pin13 uses) and mf2py for python official: https://github.com/tommorris/mf2py and bleeding edge: https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py
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GWG gRegor`: I just stayed up adding an HTML5 geolocation function to a taxonomy plugin, and I think I probably should have made it its own thing. But I was adding metadata fields and got carried away.
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cweiske yes, but that does not provide the HTTP interface
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cweiske this is the missing piece I did not want to write myself
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KartikPrabhu oh! I suppose you have to write the http yourself
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gRegor` cweiske: It can be pretty simple. Set up a form textarea and it's just three lines of PHP to parse and output it with mf2-php.
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cweiske gRegor`, I know that it can be pretty simple
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cweiske I just prefer not to do it myself if the code is already available
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gRegor` Gotcha
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: I have written one which is here: https://github.com/kartikprabhu/connection/blob/master/connection/mfparser.py#L3 but it takes the unparsed document and not the url
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KartikPrabhu don't know how useful it is
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KartikPrabhu and here it is in action: https://kartikprabhu.com/connection/mfparser
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: has one that takes the URL maybe he can help better
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cweiske we've got a company-internal address book whose html is mf2-marked up, and one of the people here needs json
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KartikPrabhu is almost done with the SVG icons article and promises a read for tomorrow lunch time :)
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KartikPrabhu night all!
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petermolnar I'm catching up with yesterday evening
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petermolnar GWG that post-formats plugin is brilliant and could be a very good base for the webmentions plugin: custom post type, the same layout with changing fields, that would be really nice
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acegiak GWG: are you creating a separate metabox for each meta field?
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Loqi acegiak: GWG left you a message 2 hours, 4 minutes ago: I seem to have put location as a field in there.
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kylewm !tell aaronpk tried to revoke and reauthorize, getting this error now on the callback from indieauth https://gist.github.com/kylewm/1d394827363580b9e510
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi barnabywalters: gRegor` left you a message on 6/4 at 9:49am: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-06-04/line/1401899881
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Loqi barnabywalters: gRegor` left you a message 5 hours, 58 minutes ago: I sent a PR for mf2-php
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GWG acegiak: By type. One for the Response URL/title, and another for Location so far. I figured that I'd cover all additional metadata
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barnabywalters cweiske: oops, I left a !tell in #microformats for you accidentally instead of in here
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acegiak GWG: that makes sense. are you doing the citation thing another way other than just having a field for the citation text or are you just not using it?
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cweiske ok, saw it
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GWG acegiak: I never did a citation text myself, but I might add it in. I pushed the changes I did last night to the repository. I need to fix some of the location code I put in.
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barnabywalters cweiske: cool — hopefully that helps solve the problem you mentioned earlier
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cweiske actually no
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cweiske I wanted a complete app, preferably in a .phar, that I can drop into my webserver
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cweiske and let it run
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barnabywalters cweiske: ah, okay — basically pin13.net in a box
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barnabywalters cweiske: well, thanks for the prompt to finally add Mf2\fetch(), even if it didn’t fix your problem :)
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GWG acegiak: What other fields do you think need to be added?
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@mapkyca I trust all those joining #resettheweb know about the #indieweb? If not, go find out about it: http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/474530447238893568)
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Loqi [mention] https://mapkyca.com/2014/i-trust-all-those-joining-resettheweb-know-about-the-indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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cweiske barnabywalters, why do you rely on curl instead of using file_get_contents?
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cweiske and why do you need two variables, $info and $curlInfo?
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barnabywalters cweiske: curl gives information about the content type which IIRC file_get_contents doesn’t provide
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cweiske oh, it does
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barnabywalters cweiske: how so?
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cweiske if you use file_get_contents with http/https, you get a $http_header_vars variable
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GWG petermolnar: Re post formats...might try...but that is a bit more javascript than I know.
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barnabywalters I would much rather use it than curl
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cweiske http://de2.php.net/manual/en/reserved.variables.httpresponseheader.php
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barnabywalters that is both horrible and awesome
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petermolnar GWG I can help with JS
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cweiske and if you want to limit the redirects yourself: http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/php-redirection-limit-reached.htm
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GWG petermolnar: Have a look at the latest code in the repository I set up.
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GWG petermolnar: I have a few things to finish on the location side though.
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GWG petermolnar: I was able to make the content editor movable.
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barnabywalters cweiske: is there also a way to get the last URL in the redirect chain? I just realised that is neccessary too
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barnabywalters for correctly resolving relative URLs
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cweiske good question
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cweiske there is a way to extract it
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barnabywalters it could be worked around by creating a custom redirect follower, and limiting each request to not follow any redirects
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cweiske http://de2.php.net/manual/en/context.http.php#refsect1-context.http-notes
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cweiske see the 2nd note
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cweiske the headers are appended to each other
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cweiske so you have the headers of *all* requests in the array
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cweiske the last location header is the final url
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barnabywalters ah, okay, that makes sense
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cweiske but you still have manually iterate through the array
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barnabywalters cweiske: yep, and resolve the URLs against the original URL
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barnabywalters fortunately php-mf2 already has a function for that
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cweiske nope
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cweiske because by the spec, the location header only may contain full uris
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cweiske https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-14.30
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cweiske Location = "Location" ":" absoluteURI
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barnabywalters that is true, however both browsers and file_get_contents happily accept them
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acegiak GWG: citation, title and url are all the three fields I use regularly
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acegiak we might need to add things for rsvp etc and stuff like that later?
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acegiak though that might just be able to be resolved in the taxonomy?
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acegiak like have one taxonomy kind which is "rsvp" and one which is "nega-rsvp" and then use the target url again
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acegiak the thing is a lot of actions use the same fields
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acegiak oh no. i appear to have mysteriously broken my tumblr posseing
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acegiak dang
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luxagraf fyi for anyone using openssl, time to upgrade again: http://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20140605.txt
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rascul yep
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rascul waits patiently for openbsd to finish libressl
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@MerceCardus How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb - http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open (twitter.com/_/status/474545627414929408)
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tantek namecheap is supposedly offering $1.99 SSL certs all day today
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tantek just heard at #pdf14
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cweiske still too expensive
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luxagraf part of me thinks moving to https might be worse since it makes people think they're safe, when in fact they may not be
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rascul yeah they been doing that for a few days at least
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cweiske i'd rather have any browser trust cacert
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luxagraf at least with http you *know* you're not
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rascul startssl is free
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rascul and the root ca in the browsers
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cweiske I know
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cweiske and you have all kinds of limitations on that certs
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rascul yes
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cweiske only 6 months validity
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rascul 1 year
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cweiske while you get 2 years with cacert once you have enough trust points
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cweiske and the last time I checked you needed different accounts if you wanted multiple free certs
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rascul you can get multiple certs with one account
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rascul and they're good for a year, see the cert at https://rascul.io for example
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cweiske good to know
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rascul it'll say 403 forbidden but you can still view cert info
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cweiske yep
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cweiske saw it
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rascul although, the way ssl certs are sold nowadays is ridiculous
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rascul for one, i don't trust the majority of those companies that already have their certificates in the browser
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cweiske do you remove their certs from your browsers?
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rascul no
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rascul my browser trusts them, i personally don't
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rascul they've done nothing to earn my trust, but i don't delete the certs because that would make https a real pain
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rascul aaronpk has some sort of indieweb ca setup somewhere iirc
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tantek likely documented on /https
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rascul that's the way to go with ssl i think, smaller certificate authorities you can build personal trust with instead of big ones you've never heard of
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cweiske trust on first use would be better IMO
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barnabywalters rascul: aaronpk’s indieweb ca thing is for convenience when testing https locally IIRC
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rascul pretty sure he said it's fine to use normally too
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rascul but i can't remember too well
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rascul https://ssl.pin13.net/indiewebcamp/
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jonnybarnes update openssl guys: http://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20140605.txt
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@t Excited to speak today at Personal Democracy Forum on the #IndieWeb. Live stream now: http://personaldemocracy.com/conferences/nyc/2014 #pdf14 (ttk.me t4WS1) (twitter.com/_/status/474562032977453058)
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PMurphs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg9YAUPnPds just in case anyone forgot about this
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@hillary RT @t: Excited to speak today at Personal Democracy Forum on the #IndieWeb. Live stream now: http://personaldemocracy.com/conferences/nyc/2014 #pdf14 (ttk.me t4WS1) (twitter.com/_/status/474562495164997632)
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Loqi [mention] https://petermolnar.eu/blips/site-deaths/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://petermolnar.eu/blips/site-deaths/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (webmention)
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@gericci RT @t: Excited to speak today at Personal Democracy Forum on the #IndieWeb. Live stream now: http://personaldemocracy.com/conferences/nyc/2014 #pdf14 (ttk.me t4WS1) (twitter.com/_/status/474564727050612736)
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@benwerd Glad @t is at #pdf14 talking #indieweb on #resetthenet day. An easy way we can reclaim our digital identities. http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/474564767802077184)
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/glad-t-is-at-pdf14-talking-indieweb-on-resetthenet-day linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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@pdmteam Tantek Celik up next at #PDF14, talking about the "IndieWeb" (twitter.com/_/status/474578640089665537)
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@NZN #indieweb up live here: http://personaldemocracy.com/conferences/nyc/2014 @benwerd (twitter.com/_/status/474578719072190464)
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@mcbyrne RT @pdmteam: Tantek Celik up next at #PDF14, talking about the "IndieWeb" (twitter.com/_/status/474578769639137281)
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@benwerd RT @NZN: #indieweb up live here: http://personaldemocracy.com/conferences/nyc/2014 @benwerd (twitter.com/_/status/474578810411556865)
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@BillNigh RT @pdmteam: Tantek Celik up next at #PDF14, talking about the "IndieWeb" (twitter.com/_/status/474578815255986176)
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@knitatoms @t :-) go IndieWeb! (twitter.com/_/status/474579135889944576)
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@karmel80 Important - Why the indieweb is important. Not silos / proprietary site such as Facebook, Twitter etc etc #pdf14 (twitter.com/_/status/474579348658589696)
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@jgksf The independent media supports the #indieweb #pdf14 (twitter.com/_/status/474579631635714048)
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@TMCmedia The independent media supports the #indieweb #pdf14 (twitter.com/_/status/474579632172584960)
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@tummler10 RT @karmel80: Important - Why the indieweb is important. Not silos / proprietary site such as Facebook, Twitter etc etc #pdf14 (twitter.com/_/status/474579797998600193)
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@citizencontact RT @t: Excited to speak today at Personal Democracy Forum on the #IndieWeb. Live stream now: http://personaldemocracy.com/conferences/nyc/2014 #pdf14 (ttk.me t4WS1) (twitter.com/_/status/474579880420450304)
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@mgyerman #PDF14 Why We Need the IndieWeb Tantek Çelik. Discussing how "the silos have taken over." (twitter.com/_/status/474579898582196224)
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@richny Rise of silos like Facebook endangered #IndieWeb says @t #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474579907742547968)
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@AskThemPPF Founder of #indieweb- @t on dominant era of "friendly silos", makes eulogy for site deaths like geocities, upcoming, posterous, etc. #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474580008108052480)
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@CallMeAlien http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/474580069655273472)
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@tummler10 RT @AskThemPPF: Founder of #indieweb- @t on dominant era of "friendly silos", makes eulogy for site deaths like geocities, upcoming, poster… (twitter.com/_/status/474580120448278529)
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@AskThemPPF Founder of #indieweb- @t on dominant era of "friendly silos", short eulogy for site deaths like geocities, upcoming, posterous, etc. #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474580190946136064)
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brainTrain_ hah whoops looks like I'm logged in in two places
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@AskThemPPF Founder of #indieweb- @t on dominant era of "friendly silos"- short eulogy for site deaths like geocities, upcoming, posterous, etc. #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474580303420608512)
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@zeynep .@t is talking about how tech community focuses on "plumbing" than people interaction, and then big corps move in, kill indieweb. #pdf14 (twitter.com/_/status/474580445238415360)
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@richny Many sites we relied on to store our data, like geocities, shut down, says @t http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474580572527136770)
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@karmel80 RT @AskThemPPF: Founder of #indieweb- @t on dominant era of "friendly silos"- short eulogy for site deaths like geocities, upcoming, poster… (twitter.com/_/status/474580580861227009)
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@tjl Atom/RSS seems a less causally powerful expl for the indieweb’s death than the IRRESISTIBLE HOMOGENIZING FORCE OF GLOBAL CAPITALISM #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474580742312574976)
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@elle_mccann RT @tjl: Atom/RSS seems a less causally powerful expl for the indieweb’s death than the IRRESISTIBLE HOMOGENIZING FORCE OF GLOBAL CAPITALIS… (twitter.com/_/status/474580841289768960)
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@prestonrhea RT @tjl: Atom/RSS seems a less causally powerful expl for the indieweb’s death than the IRRESISTIBLE HOMOGENIZING FORCE OF GLOBAL CAPITALIS… (twitter.com/_/status/474581055065047040)
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@climatebrad .@t explains how @indiewebcamp has replicated @twitter interface w/o Twitter silo #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474581281230290944)
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@andrewbt RT @tjl: Atom/RSS seems a less causally powerful expl for the indieweb’s death than the IRRESISTIBLE HOMOGENIZING FORCE OF GLOBAL CAPITALIS… (twitter.com/_/status/474581332686028801)
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@karmel80 RT @richny: Many sites we relied on to store our data, like geocities, shut down, says @t http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474581338751000576)
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@moh_kohn RT @AskThemPPF: Founder of #indieweb- @t on dominant era of "friendly silos"- short eulogy for site deaths like geocities, upcoming, poster… (twitter.com/_/status/474581348842504193)
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@ppolitics #indieweb reminders from @t at #PdF14: Foo Camp '08, Twitter & Jaiku were actually federated. Next we need #opendata standards for Congress. (twitter.com/_/status/474581471655895040)
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@SlaughterAM .@t talking about how federated comments, federated events can link together small #indieweb sites to compete w/ "mega-silos." #pdf14 (twitter.com/_/status/474581498285539328)
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@JaneLisa23 Why we need the IndieWeb--design and user experience matters @t #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474581732378021888)
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Loqi [@CauseGlobal] Facebook and Twitter are at the point of copying each other
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Loqi we can do better sez Tantek Celik #PDF14 http://indiewebcamp.com (http://twtr.io/n5YFQqjeKU)
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@v_kristensen RT @SlaughterAM: .@t talking about how federated comments, federated events can link together small #indieweb sites to compete w/ "mega-sil… (twitter.com/_/status/474581826028445697)
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@AndreVelva RT @climatebrad: .@t explains how @indiewebcamp has replicated @twitter interface w/o Twitter silo #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474581833930510336)
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@rsm Why we need indieweb? Bc we're at peak silo now. We want you to own your identity online. -@t #PDF14 https://twitter.com/rsm/status/474581842038108160/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/474581842038108160)
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@pratiksir RT @SlaughterAM: .@t talking about how federated comments, federated events can link together small #indieweb sites to compete w/ "mega-sil… (twitter.com/_/status/474581850539556864)
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@Tableteer This indieweb stuff is cool. #pdf2014 (twitter.com/_/status/474581882613821440)
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@tracyrusso Indieweb concepts and applications would be amazing for federal record keeping for #digitalgov (twitter.com/_/status/474581883540738048)
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@richny Via #indieweb you can post on your site, own your own data, and still distribute via Twitter, other networks, says @t #pdf14 (twitter.com/_/status/474581904059281408)
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@jilliancyork Great talk about @indiewebcamp - sounds fun! #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474581927102386176)
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@alemannoEU RT @SlaughterAM: .@t talking about how federated comments, federated events can link together small #indieweb sites to compete w/ "mega-sil… (twitter.com/_/status/474581931112542208)
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@climatebrad .@t: Join us in 3 weeks at @indiewebcamp at the NYT HQ! #pdf14 (twitter.com/_/status/474581939111079936)
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@HeatherLeson RT @AskThemPPF: Founder of #indieweb- @t on dominant era of "friendly silos"- short eulogy for site deaths like geocities, upcoming, poster… (twitter.com/_/status/474581984165904384)
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@tracyrusso Indieweb concepts and applications would be amazing for federal record keeping for #digitalgov #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474581998561157120)
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@MetaActivism check out http://indiewebcamp.com to help build the independent web #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474582004957458433)
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@brighteyedjaymi RT @climatebrad: .@t explains how @indiewebcamp has replicated @twitter interface w/o Twitter silo #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474582016017846272)
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@mgyerman #PDF14 Totally agree that FB, Twitter, & Google+ have have started to look all alike. Definitely will be chekcing out @indiewebcamp! (twitter.com/_/status/474582018240831488)
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@SocialCompany good idea to protect and give better care for your own contents http://indiewebcamp.com/ #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474582039489179650)
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@moh_kohn RT @richny: Many sites we relied on to store our data, like geocities, shut down, says @t http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474582055037440000)
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@SlaughterAM Go to http://Indiewebcamp.com/2014 -- help build the next generation of the Independent Web. #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474582067679092736)
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@simonerothman @t #indieweb wants us to own our own data #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474582130136453120)
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@Lisa03755 Yes! I want to join @IndieWebCamp @NYT in 3 weeks. How do I get involved? #PersonalDemocracyForum #PDF2014 (twitter.com/_/status/474582235203796992)
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@AskThemPPF At #PDF14, @t's #indieweb "wants you to own your own data"- provides domain privacy & rich content embedding for a greater independent web (twitter.com/_/status/474582238810886144)
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@jenvandermeer RT @SlaughterAM: Go to http://Indiewebcamp.com/2014 -- help build the next generation of the Independent Web. #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474582404544622592)
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@ManBartlett @indiewebcamp Great presentation today at #PDF14. Elucidated some things I've been thinking about recently. (twitter.com/_/status/474582499902124032)
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@benwerd If you enjoyed @t's awesome talk at #pdf14, head here to learn more: http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/474582570282135552)
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/if-you-enjoyed-ts-awesome-talk-at-pdf14-head-here linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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Loqi [@gdnik] Don't rely on the "silos" aka #BigSocial to be the stewards of your data
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Loqi @IndependantWeb has camp July in NYC http://indiewebcamp.com (http://twtr.io/n5Yb3fYVHt)
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@VinceDaily @t #IndieWeb wants you. We want u to own ur own stuff. (you saw that right, dude's handle is a single letter) #PDF14 http://www.mlbam.com (twitter.com/_/status/474582813761486850)
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@CodeforFTL RT @rsm: Why we need indieweb? Bc we're at peak silo now. We want you to own your identity online. -@t #PDF14 https://twitter.com/rsm/status/474581842038108160/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/474582875728519170)
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@benwerd We're also creating an accessible, responsive, open source #indieweb platform (you saw our events support): http://withknown.com #pdf14 (twitter.com/_/status/474583101704654848)
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@mathewi RT @SlaughterAM: .@t talking about how federated comments, federated events can link together small #indieweb sites to compete w/ "mega-sil… (twitter.com/_/status/474583283565883392)
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@VinceDaily RT @SlaughterAM: Go to http://Indiewebcamp.com/2014 -- help build the next generation of the Independent Web. #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474583345553489921)
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@MishiChoudhary RT @SlaughterAM: .@t talking about how federated comments, federated events can link together small #indieweb sites to compete w/ "mega-sil… (twitter.com/_/status/474583590618284032)
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barnabywalters woah
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@benwerd RT @tracyrusso: Indieweb concepts and applications would be amazing for federal record keeping for #digitalgov #PDF14 (twitter.com/_/status/474583997209530368)
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@benwerd RT @rsm: Why we need indieweb? Bc we're at peak silo now. We want you to own your identity online. -@t #PDF14 https://twitter.com/rsm/status/474581842038108160/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/474584036581449730)
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@ShaneHudson RT @rsm: Why we need indieweb? Bc we're at peak silo now. We want you to own your identity online. -@t #PDF14 https://twitter.com/rsm/status/474581842038108160/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/474584150062936064)
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tantek oh wow just reading the archives now. hopefully it wasn't too much noise! :)
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kylewm good problems, tantek!
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tallpaul the sound of virtual applause
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@emjacobi @blaine, you're onscreen at #PDF14 in @t's presentation on @indieweb. http://twitpic.com/e5im7d (twitter.com/_/status/474585661958524930)
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@ossguy 2014 is the year of "peak silo UX" (Twitter and Facebook look virtually the same now) - @t #IndieWebCamp will go beyond. #PDF14 #PDF2014 (twitter.com/_/status/474585725560557569)
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@hubmum RT @benwerd: If you enjoyed @t's awesome talk at #pdf14, head here to learn more: http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/474585918712864769)
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@perwinroth RT @rsm: Why we need indieweb? Bc we're at peak silo now. We want you to own your identity online. -@t #PDF14 https://twitter.com/rsm/status/474581842038108160/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/474586315439489024)
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@Lisa03755 RT @ossguy 2014 is the year of "peak silo UX" (Twitter and Facebook look virtually the same now) - @t #IndieWebCamp will go beyond. #PDF2014 (twitter.com/_/status/474586434519986176)
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petermolnar !tell GWG I've altered the cf-post-formats by adding a radiobutton selector to the link type for webmention data ( like, reply, repost )
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petermolnar this is perfect for my approach, I only need to connect it to the webmention plugin's send function ( see: https://github.com/petermolnar/wp-post-formats )
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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luxagraf woah
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@PNS_News RT @TMCmedia: The independent media supports the #indieweb #pdf14 (twitter.com/_/status/474589075073019904)
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@kid_OYO #indieweb is important part of our educational strategy at #kidOYO and @NoizIvy through its support of .@CoderDojoVA .@coderdojoli learn up! (twitter.com/_/status/474589281957060608)
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tommorris PEAK SILO.
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tommorris “silo”.reverse == “oils”
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tantek tommorris WHOA
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barnabywalters what is this magic
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gRegor` barnabywalters: I'm looking into that failing mf2-php test, the abbr value-class one...
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@NZN RT @kid_OYO: #indieweb is important part of our educational strategy at #kidOYO and @NoizIvy through its support of .@CoderDojoVA .@coderdo… (twitter.com/_/status/474591973660438528)
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gRegor` It looks like it's not going through the loop twice for some reason.
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gRegor` I'm going to commit my other fixes though
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tommorris tantek: is your talk going to be online for non-live viewing?
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tantek tommorris - hope so!
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tantek I know at least one friend recorded it
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tantek I think PDF also posts talks - they have archives up of past years' talks
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tantek video
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barnabywalters gRegor`: just saw your commit
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gRegor` I was thrown for a bit on the use of <abbr class="value" title="[date]">
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@Nadreck RT @rsm: Why we need indieweb? Bc we're at peak silo now. We want you to own your identity online. -@t #PDF14 https://twitter.com/rsm/status/474581842038108160/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/474594485410607104)
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gRegor` But I think I get it now.
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gRegor` barnabywalters: Is there a better way for me to fork / PR? It's still pretty new to me. Wasn't sure if I should have made a different branch name than master.
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barnabywalters gRegor`: this seems to be working fine. I think some people ask contributors to squash all the commits in a PR into one, but I’m not particularly bothered about it
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Loqi benwerd: aaronpk left you a message on 6/4 at 7:39pm: are you planning on coming to IWC West?
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benwerd aaronpk: literally having a conversation about PDX vs NYC right now
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benwerd Leaning PDX
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benwerd Purely based on costs
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benwerd Both will be cool
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gRegor` Definitely PDX. I mean, I'll be there. :)
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aaronpk PDX is way cooler
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Loqi aaronpk: kylewm left you a message 6 hours, 37 minutes ago: tried to revoke and reauthorize, getting this error now on the callback from indieauth https://gist.github.com/kylewm/1d394827363580b9e510
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aaronpk Plus you should come see our new offices!
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gRegor` I was looking at the site last night, aaronpk. Looks like a nice place.
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barnabywalters gRegor`: I figured out why testAbbrYYYY_MM_DD__HH_MM was failing — markup bug in the test case ;)
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barnabywalters pulling + checking your new code now
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benwerd aaronpk: So here's a question - might there be an opportunity to sponsor Friday drinks?
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aaronpk Quite likely!
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benwerd Awesome sauce
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gRegor` Aha, that </a> :)
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werd.io edited /2014/Guest_List (+323) "/* West */" (view diff)
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snarfed emmak: glad to see you on bridgy!
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snarfed looks like the webmentions are going through ok. let me know if i can help with anything
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/im-looking-forward-to-indiewebcamp-portland linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Guest_List (webmention)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014 (+17) "/* sponsor */ Known is sponsoring Friday pre-party! Thanks!!" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014 (+2) "/* Help Out */" (view diff)
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emmak snarfed: thanks! i'm looking forward to getting backfeeds working
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emmak also I didn't realize you could posse to silos with bridgy, is that a new feature?
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snarfed emmak: newish, at least! details in https://www.brid.gy/about#publish
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snarfed the posse part isn't too special, but the interesting part is that it can posse replies/comments, likes/favorites, and even event rsvps
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snarfed it's also nice that you can trigger it with a webmention to bridgy, so if you're rolling your own CMS and implement webmentions, you can use it to get posse support for free
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emmak snarfed: that is super cool.
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snarfed emmak: thanks!
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/webmention (+23) "/* Receiving webmentions */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/webmention (+2) (view diff)
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@drewwestcott RT @rsm: Why we need indieweb? Bc we're at peak silo now. We want you to own your identity online. -@t #PDF14 https://twitter.com/rsm/status/474581842038108160/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/474608269626208256)
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox () "(-1438) Suggested wiki CSS tweak" (view diff)
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gRegor` I've always thought the level 3 headings on the wiki stand out too much because they're bold. Thoughts on this tweak? http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox#Suggested_wiki_CSS_tweak
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gRegor` I can submit a PR if the css is on the wiki, which I presume it is.
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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@kid_OYO Root Data Problem in Society http://www.moxytongue.com/2014/06/root-data-structure-of-society-internet.html … +reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/internetdefense … #ResetTheNet #personaldemocracy why #indieweb matters (twitter.com/_/status/474610438513389568)
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@benwerd I'm an enormous fan of http://t.co/l7mQq4or7y. Just caught up with their latest developments. It's an easy way to get onto the #indieweb. (twitter.com/_/status/474610659624095744)
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@jgarber Wrapping my brain around webmention, HTTP headers, and some other seriously neckbeard shit. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/474612207356215296)
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aaronpk lol
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bear So, as one of the resident Ops type folk here at IndieWeb … please check any personal servers for the latest OpenSSL updates -- https://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20140605.txt
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aaronpk yeah :(
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snarfed we need to get @neckbeardhacker to reply to that tweet
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aaronpk luckily not quite as bad as heartbleed
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snarfed good call bear, thanks !
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bear yea, as openssl issues go… it's not bad
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bear it's just hard to audit because of the different OS versions involved
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KartikPrabhu well folks here it is as promised: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/inline-svg-icons :)
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gRegor` The icons are still showing instead of the code . . . jk
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KartikPrabhu hey I know I fixed it... you can't trick me
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@JamieXML Want to be cheered up, after that? Here: http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open #IndieWeb #VRM @benwerd @aral #open #FOSS (twitter.com/_/status/474616820943437824)
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benwerd aw, I'm just a ray of sunshine
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paulmunday.net edited /events/2014-06-04-homebrew-website-club (+35) "/* Photos */ Added photo from PDX" (view diff)
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snarfed benwerd++
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Loqi benwerd has 22 karma
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aaronpk yay for staying positive!
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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aaronpk and not using scare tactics to interest people!
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KartikPrabhu what is the thing people need cheering from... I missed it it seems
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benwerd manufactured outrage = the rhetorical equivalent of linkbait headlines, I've decided
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KartikPrabhu oh the Aral Balkan article
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benwerd which isn't to say that a good thing isn't being done in the original post - I actually think the manifesto in particular reads very well
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benwerd but yes, we're making a whole new world possible, and I think that's a more important idea
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snarfed fear mongering works short term, but it builds fatigue long term :/
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benwerd agree
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caseorganic !tell tantek douglas rushkoff asked if i was going to indiewebcamp nyc. i told him i was going to be at the portland one
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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bret caseorganic you think you can talk him into coming?
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bret :D
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caseorganic !tell tantek if it makes the difference between him coming or not, i might go to nyc. but i'll also try to get him to come to harvard berkman center one in oct
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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caseorganic bret: yeah, he'd do it if i were there. but with me in portland it would not be as reasonable
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bret hehe yeah. Hes probrably busy teaching
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bret.io edited /Events (+0) "Moved yesterdays HWC meeting to past events" (view diff)
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benwerd Just got an email from someone interested in having an Indie Web Camp at their space in Stamford, CT - thinking it's probably too short to have it simultaneous in June, but passing it over. aaronpk?
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kylewm benwerd: that's very close to NYC, isn't it?
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benwerd is it?
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GWG Define very
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benwerd geographically challenged
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Loqi GWG: petermolnar left you a message 2 hours, 21 minutes ago: I've altered the cf-post-formats by adding a radiobutton selector to the link type for webmention data ( like, reply, repost )
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GWG It is close enough
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bret benward it just occured to me that im not sure if I ever got a chance to say: congrats on Known!
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GWG benward, ditto
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bret super happy to see an indiweb project get some Knight news funding :)
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benwerd bret: thank you! This is the most challenging thing I've ever done in my life. Also, apologies, benward, yet again. ;)
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bret errr
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bret yes
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benwerd bret: It's not News Challenge funding - it's matter.vc, which is partially Knight supported. It's a smaller pot of money but we get some very structured support, which is awesome.
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kylewm GWG: gmaps says 1 hour drive
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GWG Without traffic.
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GWG There is a train
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kylewm but driving to NYC, i have no idea what that is like or if it is possible
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bret benwerd yeah not the challenge, but still :)
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benwerd bret: it's extremely exciting! And thank you again :) Now we just need to back it up.
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benwerd It does allow much more time to be spent, eg -
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benwerd I'm on work time talking indie web right now. Which is nice.
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benwerd And yesterday I spent all day building MySQL support.
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benwerd Today I'm building local filesystem / S3 support for stored files & photos.
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benwerd Those things would have taken me ages before.
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Loqi [mention] https://kartikprabhu.com/article/inline-svg-icons linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-06-02/line/1401777383 (webmention)
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bret i was just about to ask...
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bret so cool
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kylewm benwerd: that's awesome. are you using mysql like a key-value store or was it a more radical change to the datamodel?
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benwerd kylewm: it's a variation on friendfeed's model - http://backchannel.org/blog/friendfeed-schemaless-mysql
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GWG petermolnar, saw your fork, need to look more closely.
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bret benwerd what does Erin get to work on?
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kylewm benwerd: oh cool, my understanding is that is basically how reddit handled it too
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benwerd up to this point it was using Mongo's GridFS for file storage, which becomes heinously expensive - so native file support completes the picture.
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GWG I am hoping someday to get a pull request
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benwerd bret: Erin is doing a lot of user research and design work, which is wonderful
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bret rad! that stuff is so important
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benwerd Lots of experience with ethnographic research as well as the building portions of UX design. We'll be sharing that back to the community.
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bret :D
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barnabywalters benwerd: awesome! really looking foward to seeing the results
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benwerd She'll also be talking about it at Open Source Bridge if anyone's at that (sadly I'll miss it)
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bret im going to copy everything :p
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benwerd good!
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benwerd iterate
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benwerd build together
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benwerd I love this community :)
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barnabywalters <3
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GWG benwerd, it is a great one
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GWG Then again, I give an endorsement to any community willing to put up with me
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kylewm lol, the anti-groucho marx
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kylewm GWG: you're contributing a lot, not too hard to put up with that ;)
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@climatebrad .@t explains the #indieweb adoption pathway. "We want you to own your identity." #pdf14 https://twitter.com/climatebrad/status/474625197505794048/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/474625197505794048)
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bret yeeeesssss our pyramid scheme is progressing
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bret such an epic picture
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j12t benwerd: how are you doing the “data model design” on top of blobs?
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j12t it gets really messy fast when making schema changes keeping track of all the properties and relationships
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benwerd j12t: it's no messier than using NoSQL. Essentially we're storing a JSON encapsulation of the object in the blob, for fast reconstitution
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benwerd we're running a text search index, and some ownership and other metadata on the row itself. Metadata for searching is then a separate indexed set of tables.
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benwerd Our model needs are very slim, so this is essentially it
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benwerd we're kind of jimmying a document database on top of mysql.
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GWG kylewm I hope so
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benwerd The schema is then controlled by the object classes in the code, which provide the structure via inheritance / interfaces
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j12t You may not know this, but I’m also the main author of a graph database called InfoGrid.org … we use the same approach to store graphs in MySQL, and other blob stores
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benwerd We are very likely to build indexed relationship tables in addition
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benwerd I actually did not know that
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benwerd goes to check it out right now
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j12t On top, the graph database has a explicit schema that’s enforced at run time
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j12t I’m not trying to talk you into using InfoGrid
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benwerd No, but I want to check it out nonetheless!
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j12t although there would probably be useful use cases
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j12t but it’s interesting to see the parallels
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j12t cldstr.com — the app store — runs on InfoGrid
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bret benwerd: forseeable plans for non-known posts in a known powered http://stream.withknown.com like stream?
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benwerd bret: non-known posts meaning sucked in from elsewhere, or ..?
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bret yeah like an h-entry from another site
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benwerd bret: it's something we'll definitely look at. I'd like to bring in, eg, Instagram
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benwerd but it's not something we're tackling imminently
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aaronpk benwerd: awesome! that means adding postgres support should be pretty easy now
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benwerd aaronpk: postgres support is likely to be around an hour's work, yeah
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aaronpk wow
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aaronpk also likely storing the data in the filesystem is easy?
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aaronpk files named with the blob IDs?
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benwerd aaronpk: using PDO for SQL means there's little to do to flip between the two
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benwerd files is a little harder still because right now it's tethered tightly to Mongo, which was a mistake
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benwerd but it'll be done by the end of the day
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aaronpk wow so cool that you get to spend real time on this now!
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benwerd I am still pinching myself. Loving getting the dev time - the challenge is getting really good at pitching and the sales side
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benwerd on that note: meeting time. bbl
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bret i bet latikoo was bummed about losing you
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@Johannes_Ernst Is it just me, or are #indie projects suddenly erupting all over? #indieweb #indiephone #indiecomputing http://upon2020.com/banter/?p=256 (twitter.com/_/status/474634050070536192)
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bdesham I've done a bunch of web development using microdata. I'm now looking at the Indie Web stuff, but I'm unclear on the differences between microdata, microformats, microformats2, etc. Anyone have a quick summary?
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aaronpk microformats2 is less invasive into your existing html. it's possible to write a full h-card by doing just <a href="http://aaronparecki.com" class="h-card">Aaron Parecki</a>
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aaronpk microformats2 is replacing microformats1 since it has much cleaner parsing rules and is more easily extensible
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bret bdesham: microformats 2 is the newest version of microformats and is the foundation to a lot of indiweb projects relating to cross site commenting and interactions
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bdesham so I should go with either microdata or microformats2?
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luxagraf bdesham: I'm no expert, but basically microdata adds schemas and attributes to html elements, microformats1&2 use classnames
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aaronpk bdesham: it depends, what is your goal?
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bret bdesham: microdata is similar to microformats, except the schema that people use is owned and operated by google
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aaronpk if you want to do a lot of this cross- site commenting then you should definitely use microformats2
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bdesham I'm okay with "invasive" HTML changes, and microdata seems to have more well-defined semantics, so I might go with that
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luxagraf bdesham: you can use both. I do.
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bret bdesham: what is your end goal?
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bdesham cross-site commenting would be nice to be able to do
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bdesham I don't have a real clear set of goals otherwise ;)
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bdesham ah, this is for a personal site, by the way
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bret all of the cross site stuff has been done with microformats 2, and it would be a tough sell to talk people into switching and/or supporting microdata
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bret microdata can be used for google rich snippets
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aaronpk IMO the only reason to use microdata is for the google rich snippets
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aaronpk cause the schema is defined by google and google is one of the only consumers of the data
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rascul microformats2 is good stuff
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aaronpk I keep meaning to mark up my music pages with the microdata so I get neat little icons in the search results, but that's about it
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bdesham hmm... I don't really publish any of the kinds of information that are snippet-able, afaik
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bret if I were to sit down and do a clean pass at my site right now I would do minimal microformats for google rich snippets and microformats2 for indieweb projects
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bret adding microdata requires all sorts of weird additions to html tags
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bret wheras microformats is just class names and heirarchy
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luxagraf aaronpk: Don't Bing/Yahoo also consume microdata? they're part of schema.org anyway
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aaronpk yeah probably. still only for search results.
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bret bdesham: what kinds of things do you want to mark up?
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bret blog posts?
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luxagraf Has anyone here used microdata to markup blog posts and seen any change in how google presents your site in search results?
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luxagraf I had microdata for years and AFAIK it made zero difference to google
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bdesham bret: yeah, pretty much just blog posts, and some basic bio information on my "about me" page
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bdesham luxagraf: I had the same feeling. I used microdata pretty extensively because I'm that kind of nerd, but I'm not sure it ever really did anything
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snarfed luxagraf: you can use https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/structured-data to see what microdata/formats/etc google sees on your pages and what effect it has
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bret luxagraf: the biggest change to my google search results came from adding authorship (getting the picture by my name)
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snarfed (combined w/other parts of webmaster tools there)
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bret bdesham: thats the exact same way I felt when i did it... lots of effort for little gain
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snarfed bret++ yup, authorship is usually the big one. that and sitemaps
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Loqi bret has 11 karma
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luxagraf bret: yeah I tried that, google says my picture isn't clear enough which is when I snapped and dumped everything google related.
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bret lol
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bdesham bret: and don't you need to use google+ for that authorship info anyway? I don't use g+
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luxagraf snarfed: well yeah you can see theoretically how it might look with that parser, but, at least in my case the actual results were always pulled from my metadesc tags
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bret i opened an account just for that. after turning off notifications and ignoring circles, i dont even notice it
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luxagraf actually I'm still using microdata for some geo tags and for my breadcrumbs, so not everything
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luxagraf I think it's just a nerd tic of mine though, why do you need microdata for breadcrumbs? other than because you can
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@pjan_stellar RT @tjl: Atom/RSS seems a less causally powerful expl for the indieweb’s death than the IRRESISTIBLE HOMOGENIZING FORCE OF GLOBAL CAPITALIS… (twitter.com/_/status/474640569856032769)
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aaronpk wat?
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snarfed back away slowly
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rascul good i'm not the only one
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@iQuestMedia How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb - http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open (twitter.com/_/status/474641854579761152)
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luxagraf does it make sense to put p-location and h-geo on the same element, or does h-geo need to be inside p-location?
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luxagraf where the element has lat/lon in <data>
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aaronpk i believe you would do class="p-location h-geo"
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indie-visitor dsearls here with tantek, digging being a newbie
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aaronpk welcome dsearls!
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aaronpk (you can type /nick dsearls to set your nick)
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luxagraf aaronpk: okay, thanks.
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aaronpk luxagraf: my events have p-location h-card classes
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searls Hey everybody.
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/events/2014/06/04/1/homebrew-website-club
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searls getting my head blown up by tantek. all cool
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aaronpk excellent
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luxagraf aaronpk: I haven't got around to reverse geocoding my notes, so I'm going with straight h-geo for now.
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk my notes are just reverse-geocoded to the city
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barnabywalters greetings searls! welcome to #indiewebcamp
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luxagraf aaronpk: I tried using twitter's api to get at least city level data (since I'm calling the api anyway) but the results are terrible
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searls thanks. only have a minute, but will be back
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snarfed welcome searls!
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aaronpk luxagraf: hadn't thought about that! too bad it's not good data.
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luxagraf aaronpk: YMMV: https://dev.twitter.com/docs/api/1/get/geo/reverse_geocode
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aaronpk ah yeah, that includes neighborhoods and such
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Loqi tantek: caseorganic left you a message 1 hour, 47 minutes ago: douglas rushkoff asked if i was going to indiewebcamp nyc. i told him i was going to be at the portland one
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Loqi tantek: caseorganic left you a message 1 hour, 46 minutes ago: if it makes the difference between him coming or not, i might go to nyc. but i'll also try to get him to come to harvard berkman center one in oct
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: your post is gold
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caseorganic tantek: hey there
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: :D thanks much!
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tantek greetings
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tantek just got another bandwidth warning
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tantek back to the investigation
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tantek and it's only the 5th of the month!
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KartikPrabhu tantek is too famous for his server!
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: are you testing in IE? Have you tested much with Safari iOS?
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aaronpk tantek: do you run any analysis on your web server logs? like webalizer or awstats or whatever?
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: Unfortunately not. I don't have access to those on my Ubuntu machine. But I am not very worried about it as SVG fails quite gracefully
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cweiske I use awstats
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cweiske https://ahso.server.cweiske.de/awstats/cweiske.de/
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tantek aaronpk - I use whatever my web host has installed
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: you mean, with no icon?
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tantek btw - just to make sure - did you guys already discuss the OpenSSL vulnerabilities disclosed today?
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tantek https://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20140605.txt
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aaronpk cweiske: nice, I kind of miss stats like that. google analytics has been getting weirder lately. i'm probably gonna drop it soon.
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KartikPrabhu yeah. I don't use icons without any text so the icon not showing up is not a big problem I think
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tantek likely affects any client that uses OpenSSL, e.g. maybe curl? e.g. maybe everyone consuming webmentions?
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: hopefully people will read Chris Coyier's post which do talk about that instead of blindly copying my code :)
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cweiske aaronpk, unfortunately google now does not transfer the search params in the referer anymore
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cweiske which really sucks
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JonathanNeal So, a few things to discover
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JonathanNeal cross browser compatibility / fallback, accessibility of the SVG (what apps read what), and spritemap generation.
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aaronpk oh yeah, that's too bad, that was one of my favorite part of the stats
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cweiske for me, too
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cweiske and now google only has the data
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KevinMarks KartikPrabhu: your demo links have stray characters on the end
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KartikPrabhu waah!
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cweiske so they have another reason that you switch to google analytics
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KevinMarks 'first example' links to https://kartikprabhu.com/static/demo/inline-svg-icons.html%231
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KartikPrabhu yeah my bad will fix asap :)
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KevinMarks I think you escaped the #1
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KevinMarks or is that a fragmention?
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bdesham I'm guessing there's no way to export data *from* google analytics, right?
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cweiske I don't and won't use GA
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aaronpk they have good export options
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aaronpk nice pdf reports if you want to send graphs to someone, or csv downloads
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KevinMarks eg caniuse.com lets you upload your GA data to see what web features your users have
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bdesham aaronpk: oh, interesting
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bdesham I recently switched from hosting my website on S3 to using my own VPS, so now I have server logs I can use instead of GA
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aaronpk interseting downside to using S3
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tantek nm re: bandwidth warning, looks like an errant warning. got warned about 2.8GB used out of 50GB capacity (monthly.
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bdesham yeah. S3 also makes it very difficult to issue e.g. HTTP 301s for a certain URL, and there's no URL rewriting ability at all
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tantek oh I should tell shaners since he was asking
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bdesham (which makes sense, it's really only supposed to be a key-value store...)
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tantek !tell shaners my current web host setup has a 50MB/month bandwidth cap.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek er GB
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tantek darn it
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KevinMarks S3 has logs, but they're off by default: http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/dev/LogFormat.html
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tantek !tell shaners not 50MB, but 50GB monthly bandwidth limit
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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cweiske my vps has some 10TB/month
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: fixed! thanks for the heads up. I put the fragments in some template tag that barfed
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cweiske after that they cap me to 10mb/s
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tantek cweiske nice! for how much per month?
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cweiske 30€, and I share the VPS with 2 friends
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cweiske so everyone pays 10€
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tantek that's a very reasonable split!
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tantek I'm paying only slightly less - $10/mo.
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aaronpk bdesham: would you mind adding those criticisms to http://indiewebcamp.com/S3 ?
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tantek cweiske - could you add that to /web_hosting ?
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cweiske sure
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@citizencontact @t ? about http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth for a project. Chat? #social2congress cc: @ppolitics (twitter.com/_/status/474650643584413696)
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tantek whoa cool
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tantek ^^^ @aaronpk :)
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@aaronpk @citizencontact Hop in the #indiewebcamp IRC channel and I'd be happy to chat! http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/06/05/1/indiewebcamp) (twitter.com/_/status/474650848182562816)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/06/05/1/indiewebcamp linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC (webmention)
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aaronpk tantek: interesting, 50GB is not a very high limit, I can see why you'd run into it every month!
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cweiske.de edited /web_hosting (+72) "/* Virtual Private Server */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks glad tantek is representing at CFP - I did get a panel invite but couldn't get the logistics tight
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tantek KevinMarks - PDF not CFP :)
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KartikPrabhu man! had my first "spam tweet"!
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tantek aaronpk - it used to be 25GB and they gave me a free upgrade to 50GB after hitting the 25GB limit for a few months
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aaronpk so far I'm at 23GB used this month, but my limit is 15TB so meh
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cweiske.de edited /web_hosting (+39) "/* Virtual Private Server */" (view diff)
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bdesham KevinMarks: oh, *now* I learn about S3 logs ;)
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bdesham aaronpk: sure
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: accessibility is a good point. On my actual site I am using role=presentation on the icons as I don't really want the voice readers to read the icon. I have the actual text anyway.
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indie-visitor hi @aaronpk thanks for your tweet.
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aaronpk welcome!
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aaronpk (you can set your name by typing /nick yourname)
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indie-visitor been a long time follower of OpenID ( mine is still up magically at http://daniel.citizencontact.com )
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aaronpk myopenid.com still not quite offline
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citizencontact I know. Still looking for a replacement.
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cweiske simpleid.sf.net
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cweiske self-hosted
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aaronpk well you can certainly use indieauth.com for that! http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth#Use_IndieAuth_for_your_OpenID
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citizencontact Have been following the OpenID 2.0 that combines OAuth
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luxagraf aaronpk: i seem to recall some code of yours that maps nominatim response json to h-adr... any idea offhand where I saw that?
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aaronpk citizencontact: yes OpenID 2 is interesting, but not a 1-1 replacement for OpenID
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aaronpk luxagraf: hmm the only thing I can think of is this, https://github.com/geoloqi/php-simplegeo#hcard-adr-queries but that's probably not what you mean
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citizencontact going to look into if i can test indieAuth with a similar service to myopenid.com where i can cname my domain onto a hosted solution.
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aaronpk i think it may have been someone like barnaby or tommorris who did that with nominatim
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: so role="img" for images without representative content and role="presentation" for assistive images to content?
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tommorris who what?
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aaronpk citizencontact: if you just want to replace myopenid.com with another hosted solution you can just point to indieauth.com instead. check out my openid tags on aaronparecki.com
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citizencontact Then look into this for a larger project, allowing people to send messages to congress.
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luxagraf aaronpk: ah, okay, maybe it was
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tantek hello citizencontact and welcome!!
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citizencontact wondering if indieAuth is reasonable replacement for OpenID for the project. I see that Twitter connection is possible, but no Facebook Connect interoperation.
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citizencontact thanks tantek. long time fan of yours.
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tantek IndieAuth is definitely a big upgrade of OpenID
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tommorris the problem there is Facbeook Connect doesn’t really tie to the URL
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cweiske ha. where is the indieauth server that I can use without 3rdparty services?
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tantek thanks citizencontact! are you at #PDF14?
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aaronpk cweiske: go implement relmeauth yourself
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citizencontact Want to allow citizens to enroll / create their own identity with their postal address.
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aaronpk cweiske: also see: http://indiewebcamp.com/Category:IndieAuth
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aaronpk read that then come back and talk
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citizencontact no, not this year, but my partner in this effort David Moore is there.
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tommorris citizencontact: I’d suggest that you probably don’t want indieauth for that. you probably want some kind of multi-network authentication system. look at OmniAuth in Rails, or Django-AllAuth in Python.
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tommorris they let you have single user account + multiple social logins from different providers
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citizencontact or Janrain?
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aaronpk citizencontact: lol I was jokingly talking about adding postal address support to indieauth.com (along with fax support)
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tommorris IndieAuth is for signing in with a URL and then fulfilling that authentication using one of the social silo providers
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aaronpk citizencontact: the key with IndieAuth is that a domain name is the primary identity, so it assumes that everyone signing in will have their own domain.
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citizencontact I have been talking with USPS with an id that connects registered postal address with an online identity.
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aaronpk if that is not true of your demographic then I would not suggest using it
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tommorris much as it’d be awesome, most people don’t have a domain
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rascul people still fax things?
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tommorris you can’t expect the average citizen to have a domain name, even though it’d be awesome if they did
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tommorris rascul: yes. especially in countries with poor or nonexistent broadband
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rascul oh i didn't think about elsewhere i'm too narrow minded
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tommorris got a family member who works in the printing industry - if you want something printed in Africa, you can’t just fling them a PDF.
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aaronpk rascul: also faxes are often the quickest way to get a signature sent somewhere
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KevinMarks can you rel-me to a geourl?
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KevinMarks remembers ICBM meta
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citizencontact I realize that is also true with OpenID at ones own domain. But this could be an option, especially for some.
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citizencontact And Oauth will have to be part of it anyway.
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tommorris KevinMarks: that would imply that you are the controller of the URL. the SemWeb pedant draws an important distinction between the URL and the underlying thing.
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tommorris also, topography isn’t 2D.
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KevinMarks geourls have elevation
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tommorris saying I own the lat,long where my flat is is probably mess than ideal for the people in the flats below mine.
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tommorris s/mess/less/
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Loqi tommorris meant to say: saying I own the lat,long where my flat is is probably less than ideal for the people in the flats below mine.
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citizencontact @t tantek. perhaps you could catch up with David Moore @ppolitics and you two could chat.
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tantek.com edited /OpenID (+312) "add empty IndieWeb Examples section for self-providers, and consuming sites" (view diff)
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KevinMarks I was thinking more of an auth that is geo bounded
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tommorris too easy to fake
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citizencontact Also, is there any thought of using MicroData as I am very happy with this as a standard?
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tommorris citizencontact: again, the social login systems like Omniauth and Allauth provide OpenID support. if you support OpenID, then indieauth people can log into it.
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tommorris citizencontact: indieweb people mostly use microformats2, but there are weird exceptions (I’m an RDFa fanboy).
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cweiske.de edited /OpenID (+64) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /OpenID (+2) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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citizencontact In US, the postal service provides the best system to identify the address of a person, especially for jurisdictions as the Zip+4 is used for many political lines. Geo would not work.
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tantek thanks cweiske - that was what I was hoping for! :)
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cweiske but I delegate to id.cweiske.de
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tantek citizencontact, W3C has abandoned microdata by the way
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citizencontact tommorris: thanks, will look into those as more flexible log in system
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tantek we did learn lessons from microdata though
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citizencontact tantek, And WHATWG?
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tantek and used those lessons in the design of an even simpler, more efficient, and easier to use (add to markup) microformats2
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tommorris citizencontact: the problem with that is there’s ambiguity (multiple people at one address, sometimes multiple people with the same name at one address), there’s reuse of identifiers (as the mail I get for previous tenants attests to)
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tantek citizencontact, microdata is still one of the leftovers in the "HTML living standard" but no one really cares about it except for Google pushing it for their own semi-proprietary/oligopolic "schema.org"
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citizencontact my interest in Microdata has a bit to do with the itemid feature and the possiblity of putting a "schema" similar to XML schema at the itemtype.
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cweiske microformats allow that, too
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tommorris citizencontact: well, RDFa exists for that for the kind of rich (or perhaps overly-bloated and impractical) semantics. microformats2 is a fair bit simpler.
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tantek wow that "putting a schema similar to XML schema at the itemtype" sounds like architecture astronomy!
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tantek yes the itemid feature is useful and microformats2 re-uses it from microdata
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citizencontact I agree that RDFa is impractical. but Microdata is much better, object oriented and data friendly
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tantek well, itemid is actually *rarely* useful
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tantek in fact, in common #indieweb use-cases, we've never had any need for itemid
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citizencontact I am working on a standard for legal citations, and itemid has a great use case for that and other things.
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tantek however, if you want to discuss "edge case" features like that, it's probably more appropriate for the #microformats channel
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tommorris also, the assumption that one address = a simple way to collect data about residents is problematic. here in the UK, the census gets sent out on a per-household basis and filled in on a per-household basis. I’ve read far too many papers about census methodology.
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tantek usually we try to scope discussions here to those that have some concrete #indieweb use-case
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tantek s/use-case/use-cases
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Loqi tantek meant to say: usually we try to scope discussions here to those that have some concrete #indieweb use-cases
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tommorris people often don’t give particularly accurate answers to some of the more personal questions about religion or sexuality if their parents or spouse are going to read it. ;)
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tantek citizencontact: are you publishing legal citations on your own site?
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tommorris but I am going off topic.
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citizencontact I have been looking at Microformats, especially when Microsoft Smart Tags disintergrated.
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tantek citzencontact it wasn the first to disintegrate
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tantek s/wasn/wasn't
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Loqi tantek meant to say: citzencontact it wasn't the first to disintegrate
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citizencontact No, but I am in OASIS/LegalXML citations standards group.
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tantek oh dear
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tantek quite far from #indieweb ;)
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tommorris citizencontact: so, in the indieweb/microformats communities, there’s a very pragmatic publish-first-legislate-later model around standards
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citizencontact I have been doing indieweb like things for over 15 years.
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tantek in general the "standards" discussions here tend to be about - what is the minimum possible spec/standard that works for simple indieweb sites, and is easily implementable
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tommorris like, the first question that people like tantek and others here is “let’s see a web page where this is published"
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tantek tommorris: indeed, though that's just the empiricism test from scientific method
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tantek citizencontact: great! what's your personal site?
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tantek citizencontact: btw do you have a citation for the disintegration (dropping support of) Microsoft Smart Tags? I'd like to document that
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tantek I've documented a bunch of other failures and patterns here: http://microformats.org/2012/06/25/microformats-org-at-7
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citizencontact one that is old, but has some of my work/ideas is: http://advocatehope.org/
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citizencontact and my openid profile page is http://daniel.citizencontact.com/
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tommorris tantek: a few years ago, O’Reilly asked me if I could write a book on GDATA. I’d almost forgotten that was a thing.
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KevinMarks the utility bill is a common standard for identity verification
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tantek so that's probably the best example then - http://daniel.citizencontact.com/ cool
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tantek tommorris - O'Reilly has a *very bad* track record with books about metadata standards
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tantek they've never asked for a book about microformats, yet they published one on FBML
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tantek for example
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aaronpk "they've never asked" is probably more like "nobody has come forward to offer to write one"
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citizencontact I've followed microformats for many years
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tantek citizencontact: great - looks like you already have URLs to your Twitter etc. on there - if you hyperlink them and add rel="me" to the <a href> you should be able to get IndieAuth working
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citizencontact can not add HTML into the openid profile page. looking for another openid hoster. otherwise I would.
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tantek aaronpk - well there is the flipside of, if a technology is too simple, and it's publicly documented for free on the web, there's less reason to write and sell a book about it
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aaronpk actually they said my OAuth 2 book is one of the few that is about a protocol rather than a specific language or technology
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tantek aaronpk - thought they had a TCP/IP others too
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tantek back from the unix days
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tantek citizencontact: wait, just noticed you're using MyOpenID - you do they've supposed to have shutdown by now right?
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aaronpk I said "one of the few" :)
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tantek aaronpk - few protocols are actually needed ;)
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citizencontact tantek and aaronpk: David Moore and I are starting an effort to allow citizens to use social networks to communicate with congress.
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citizencontact tantek: and it has gone down several times. just cant find another hosted solution.
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tantek citizencontact: IndieAuth supports openid for you
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth#Use_IndieAuth_for_your_OpenID
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citizencontact hosted so I can bring my domain? or do I have to stand up my own server?
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tantek aaronpk? ^^^ sounds like a good FAQ
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esham.io edited /Amazon_S3 (+803) "Added a list of considerations and a link to some setup instructions" (view diff)
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kylewm luxagraf: hey catching up on logs. barnaby wrote this for nominatum -> h-adr https://gist.github.com/barnabywalters/8318401
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kylewm i referenced it recently for a python impl
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aaronpk citizencontact: you don't need to run it yourself, you can just delegate to indieauth.com
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KevinMarks hosted works - I use indieauth for kevinmarks.com openid
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tantek "post colonial internet" - phrase just heard at #PDF14
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citizencontact aaronpk: so I host the page and just use HTML tags?
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tantek feels very resonant with indieweb ideals
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aaronpk I should make this page more useful https://indieauth.com/openid
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KevinMarks GData is still kind of a thing, in that Google still supports those atompub APIs. but it is no longer ideologically mandated
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Loqi yea!
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tantek KevinMarks, yeah, Google's ideological mandating is a trailing indicator
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aaronpk citizencontact: even easier, you just make sure your existing home page links to your twitter/github/etc profile, then add the openid delegate tags that are listed here http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth#Use_IndieAuth_for_your_OpenID
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KevinMarks that was one of my big internal fights (wanting to use JSON rather than gdata for opensocial)
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citizencontact aaronpk: great. I will attempt it and just use my own plone server and delegate. thanks.
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tantek citizencontact, you could just *copy* and *fork* the markup from your hosted OpenID page, put it up as a static page, and make the improvements aaronpk speaks of
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: I used role=presentation following this blurb: http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#presentation . I think it should be used only when there is some actual descriptive text with it
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citizencontact tantek: but I cant edit the HTML in the page, just plain text.
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tantek.com edited /OpenID (+36) ""* ... add yourself" bullets for IndieWeb Examples to encourage more" (view diff)
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aaronpk citizencontact: you can just copy the HTML then host it somewhere else like on your own personal domain
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tantek citizencontact: yes you can - view source, save as index.html, edit in text editor :)
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tantek perhaps we should write this up as a transition strategy for MyOpenID profiles
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aaronpk likely deserves its own page rather than just a section on the indieauth page
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citizencontact tantek: yes, i can host a home page and edit the HTML. Move off the disappearing myopenid. Yes, Tantek, that would be very helpful.
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bdesham I tried to log in to the wiki with my domain name and the options were twitter and email
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bdesham The email choice took me to a Persona site
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bdesham Would I have to have created a Persona account to use that?
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bdesham (I went with Twitter because I know what's going on there)
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tantek bdesham - or add persona support to your personal domain
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tantek and yes, Twitter UX for identity / sign-in is easier than Persona
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tantek so I don't blame you
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aaronpk bdesham: yeah it uses Persona for email auth. in theory persona doesn't require a mozilla persona account but in practice that's the easier way to go
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tantek I should add a similar IndieWeb Examples page to that
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tantek er, section to that page
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Loqi definitely
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rascul you can self host persona if you want but i trust mozilla for that
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citizencontact I like this. Wish I could pay for the hosting, even if small amount, so it can be self sustaining. Would have paid Janrain for Myopenid if they had asked.
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aaronpk wonder if it's worth adding an option to email you a code similar to sms auth so people don't need to figure out persona
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citizencontact hosting of indieauth.com/openid
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tantek rascul, you shouldn't have to
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aaronpk citizencontact: aw thanks! right now the best mechanism for that is probably gittip https://www.gittip.com/aaronpk/ (expenses are documented http://indiewebcamp.com/expenses )
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bdesham aaronpk: that's what I thought was going to happen until I saw the persona screen
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bdesham it would be nice if authy/google authenticator were an option, although I don't think that makes any sense in this context
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aaronpk bdesham: they are actually, after you sign in once from another mechanism
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citizencontact aaronpk: it is about the missing piece for me of indieweb. by paying, it is a form of a contract.
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bdesham oh!
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aaronpk bdesham: https://indieauth.com/totp
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bdesham niiice
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aaronpk citizencontact: I'm thrilled to hear you are willing to pay for using indieauth.com
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@kevinmarks @shanley databases are a nightmare. http://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern (twitter.com/_/status/474664018553368576)
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citizencontact tantek: liked your point about the similarities of profiles: my twitter/facebook/googleplus are so similar. if i can host my own profile page, with my own look and feel that would be the coup de grace.
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@weems RT @kevinmarks: @shanley databases are a nightmare. http://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern (twitter.com/_/status/474664382748975106)
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aaronpk citizencontact: "host my own profile" -- isn't that having your own website?
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citizencontact aaronpk: would hope that you charged and then made it a consumer contract.
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citizencontact aaronpk: no, because i needed to point my domain to myopenid.com's web page and I can not edit much on it.
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aaronpk i feel like openid really threw a lot of wrenches into this whole thing, it should be much simpler than "pointing my domain to myopenid.com"
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citizencontact profile page= openid url
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aaronpk so in the case of indieauth, your profile page == your home page, no need for two
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tantek.com edited /Persona (+545) "dfn, IndieWeb Examples, see also" (view diff)
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citizencontact aaronpk: that is excellent.
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citizencontact aaronpk: best would be a registrar that included the indieauth/openid profile page for people. I have gotten people to switch to their own domains and then use google apps for email, etc. but their openid is not quite right for that solution IMO.
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tantek anyone consume Persona directly on their own webiste, or have implemented being their own Persona provider? http://indiewebcamp.com/Persona#IndieWeb_Examples
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tantek who asked the Web Stats questions?
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aaronpk i believe I asked if you had web server logs (since I know you don't use GA or other JS logs)
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cweiske I thought about hosting persona myself, but don't use any tools/sites that require it
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cweiske and tantek about sites that use openid login - I manage some typo3-based websites for our kindergarden, soccer club etc - they all require openid login for the backend
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cweiske not "indie web" sites, though
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citizencontact I have played with using OpenID for plone Intranet sites. Works fine.
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citizencontact aaronpk: thanks for responding to my tweet. you have been very helpful.
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aaronpk citizencontact: you're welcome! feel free to drop by here any time
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citizencontact tantek: a great pleasure to chat with you. been a fan since ... long time. hope you can ring in on our #social2congress project.
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tantek citizencontact - I'm wondering if maybe Web Sign-in in general is something that could work for that
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tantek IndieAuth is a specific Web Sign-in implementation (the best one so far) that *does* focus on the IndieWeb
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tantek technically, any OAuth provider can provide Web Sign-in
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tantek just wanted to leave you with that http://microformats.org/wiki/web-sign-in
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tantek there's still a personal site bias, but it can technically be done with profiles on silos too
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tantek cweiske - good to know about your experience with managing Openid logins on sites. If you'd like, feel free to add that in an "Additional Examples" section on the page.
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tantek aaronpk - thanks, just stubbing an /analysis page now
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citizencontact tantek: It is a complex issue, identity, especially fighting the silos. been trying since the days of AOL IM. I will look into indieAuth more.
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citizencontact tantek: thanks
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cweiske the wiki really should pre-fill my domain in the login prompt
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aaronpk cookied?
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cweiske yep
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cweiske I use that with phorkie to pre-fill the openid
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cweiske so I only have to press return to login
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citizencontact all: ciao
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aaronpk it used to, not sure what happened
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cweiske.de edited /OpenID (+113) "add additional examples" (view diff)
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bdesham so indiewebify.me implies that I should have my h-card info on my site's front page, but most of that info is actually on an "about me" page. is it particularly important to have an h-card right on the front page?
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tantek.com edited /OpenID (+123) "move Additional Examples just below IndieWeb Examples for easier discover, add context" (view diff)
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lupinedev hi everyone! i lurked a little this morning. pretty new to most of this stuff but want to start POSSE-ing some of my social media posts soon.
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KartikPrabhu bdesham: you can have a partial h-card on the homepage and link to your about page
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: in your own words, would you describe when you would use img vs presentation?
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cweiske.de edited /OpenID (+2) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu looks up img
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kylewm welcome lupinedev! do you have a personal site set up already?
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lupinedev kylewm: yeah, and i logged in to indiewebcamp.com using indie auth once a little while back
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kylewm nice!
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tantek.com created /analysis (+658) "stub this out to capture a few things, and not sure where else to put it (or if it already exists)" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Main_Page (+0) "/* Homebrew Website Club */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: My impression from reading the ARIA roles stuff is: img = and image that is actually the content of the post for instance illustrations and photos. presentation = image/elements used purely for decoration/aesthetics and don't add new content.
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bdesham KartikPrabhu: should I use u-url for that kind of link?
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kylewm aaronpk: in light of Google Analytics not showing search terms anymore, you should know your site was near the top for "ubuntu openssl version" when I searched for it earlier ;)
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lupinedev kylewm: thanks! Learned a lot being a fly on the wall in here already. Will speak up more when i have more questions :)
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aaronpk kylewm: nice! thanks :)
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KartikPrabhu bdesham: you could just use <a class="h-card" href="/about">Your Name</a> the p-name and u-url can be implied from just that. See the footer of my site where I do that: https://kartikprabhu.com/
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bdesham KartikPrabhu: oh, that would be ideal! thanks
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+135) "/* Details */ when" (view diff)
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@benwerd @segphault We're working on a self-hosted, #indieweb publishing platform you might be interested in: http://withknown.com (twitter.com/_/status/474672056337170432)
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KartikPrabhu bdesham: microformats is pretty flexible. when in doubt just test your markup with http://waterpigs.co.uk/php-mf2/? or https://kartikprabhu.com/connection/mfparser :)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+455) "/* Where */ +Chicago" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, kylewm, I wrote this up based on what I understood from above, would appreciate your contributions (since I'm a bit of a a stats/site-analysis amateur) http://indiewebcamp.com/analysis
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gRegor` Does it make sense to say all times are Pacific unless otherwise specified on the HWC event pages?
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gRegor` vs. just specifying the timezone for each one
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aaronpk all times are local times
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aaronpk for each location
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gRegor` Yesterday's HWC said "All times are Pacific Time unless otherwise noted in venues."
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gRegor` But yeah, local time was my understanding from previous ones.
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gRegor` Looks like tantek added that line
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cweiske.de edited /analysis (-41) "/* Software */" (view diff)
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gRegor` I just duplicated it for the 6/18 one for now
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tantek thanks gRegor
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bdesham KartikPrabhu: cool!
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tantek aaronpk - yeah I tried to figure out how to document the NYC meetup being same time as PDX etc.
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tantek and the "all times are local" seemed more confusing than not
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tantek from that point of view - so I modified it accordingly
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gRegor` Ah
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tantek also it was kind of cool to be online / participating *at the same time*
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tantek and it wasn't *too* late in NYC
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gRegor` Indeed.
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tantek we got snacks & drinks
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aaronpk yaeh that's awesome! I hope we can do more concurrent events like that!
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: if/when our HWC gets bigger, the Panera just a couple blocks south on Michigan might work.
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GWG tantek, still upset that I missed it
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gRegor` Or if we just need more space. I ate there before last night and it wasn't very busy.
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: cross that street when we come to it ;)
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tantek so maybe we should default to PDT
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tantek and synchrony
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@skinny RT @benwerd: If you enjoyed @t's awesome talk at #pdf14, head here to learn more: http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/474673759971180545)
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tantek just a thought
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gRegor` I presume they have later hours too, if we wanted to sychro with others.
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gRegor` tantek: Do separate h-events make sense now that we're having 3, sometimes 4?
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tantek gRegor`, KartikPrabhu to be clear, you guys do Chicago HWC however works best for you
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tantek gRegor`: I think separate h-events may make sense for *separate start times*
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gRegor` Sure, wasn't feeling any pressure. Could be cool. :)
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gRegor` Could be cool to synchro, that is.
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tantek but if there's a critical mass of HWC meetups at the same exact time, then perhaps that's just a multi-location event, including being remote visitable
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GWG tantek, how about utc?
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aaronpk UTC is less readable. I have an easier time reading east coast times converting them to pacific than UTC
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tantek UTC is not very readable - and the times would scare people away ;)
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tantek if we suddenly get a majority of UK HWC meetups, then we can re-assess ;)
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GWG there must be a tech solution for that
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: we could try syncing up... but we don't have video/mics and all that anyway do we?
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gRegor` True
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kylewm moment.js?
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gRegor` Plus likely obnoxious since it's a public place
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KartikPrabhu yeah.
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gRegor` I'm fine with Intelligentsia still
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KartikPrabhu yeah me too. we can move if the group gets bigger
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gRegor` I suggest we use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time :)
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tantek hmm still being hit by a lot of bots
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tantek as in > 90% of my traffic
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gRegor` Use an EMP
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gRegor` Oh, not physical bots
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tantek haha - I thought maybe EMP was some server software
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aaronpk gRegor`++
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Loqi awesome
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gRegor` But seriously, wow. That's a lot.
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gRegor` Loqi, why don't you like my backtick?
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Loqi woot!
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gRegor` That's not an answer, Loqi
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aaronpk hey I fixed that, Loqi
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gRegor` Yeah, stop eating code, Loqi
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tantek most hits from UA: Mozilla/5.0 (compatible
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tantek kdslbot/3.2.0.6 +http://www.lt.infor
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tantek second most from UA: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible
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tantek MSIE 5.5
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tantek Windows NT 5.0)
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tantek which I think is a bad bot lying
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aaronpk that looks sufficiently generic to be a lie
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+36) "/* RSVP */ +Chicago" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+16) "/* Notes */" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, so the biggest "user" of that UA I see is from IP 115.79.40.16 which is requesting several *pages* of my site linked from home page *per second*, *without* referrer (i.e. without saying they followed a link from my home page)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-06-18-homebrew-website-club (+3) "/* When */" (view diff)
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tantek so I'm going to block that IP as a lying bot
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aaronpk Holy cow, several per second?
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aaronpk That seems excessive
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tantek right
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tantek hence blocking the IP
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tantek but I figure I can document this process here as a learning exercise
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tantek and so if I'm doing something wrong or have other options, someone will correct me
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gRegor` aaronpk, tantek: Did you see this? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-06-05#t1401990644
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tantek I always thought they stood out less because level 3 loses the horizontal rule
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kylewm !tell luxagraf hey catching up on logs. barnaby wrote this for nominatum -> h-adr https://gist.github.com/barnabywalters/8318401
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm !tell luxagraf and I ported his code to python here https://github.com/kylewm/redwind/blob/master/redwind/locations.py
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: updated documentation and linked to your article https://github.com/jonathantneal/svg4everybody#futher-reading
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: awesome!
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KartikPrabhu I should update my article and suggest svg4everybody as a polyfill!
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@mashutfazylov How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb - http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open (twitter.com/_/status/474683298179211265)
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@sandymc Now, here’s a concept. Roll yer own FB, etc. “@oldaily: …on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb #oldaily http://t.co/3rK6aUk4IU” (twitter.com/_/status/474686792072175619)
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aaronpk !tell cweiske if you're serious about wanting to know how to run your own auth server, check out this page: http://indiewebcamp.com/login-brainstorming
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk kylewm: thanks! fixed ownyourgram!
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