#indiewebcamp 2014-06-11

2014-06-11 UTC
benwerd joined the channel
#
GWG
Other than Facebook Twitter, Gplus, and Instagram, what sites with embed code are people likely to reply to?
gRegor` joined the channel
#
GWG
Youtube maybe
#
GWG
Hmm..
#
GWG
Hi gRegor
#
bret
GWG flickr?
#
bret
github, quora
#
GWG
They all have embed code?
#
GWG
Any do oembed?
#
bret
oh snap
#
bret
really!? this looks cool
#
bret
well flickr IS the example on http://oembed.com/
benwerd joined the channel
#
onewheelskyward
pinterest
#
onewheelskyward
Is the other social network we use.
#
GWG
I have never done pinterest. But I am writing reply code for my site
benwerd_ joined the channel
#
onewheelskyward
Me, either. But it has a following.
#
GWG
onewheelskyward, what prompted your username? pikot?
#
GWG
Pilot?
#
onewheelskyward
Close. Motorcycle.
#
onewheelskyward
I had a 929 that was geared down rather dramatically. Which led to many a one-wheeled take-off from lights in California.
#
GWG
Smaller
#
onewheelskyward
The bike was running Pilots at the time.
#
GWG
What brings you to the chat?
paulcp and snarfed joined the channel
#
kylewm
GWG, more things someone might reply to: news articles, wikipedia articles
#
kylewm
or repost
#
GWG
I was thinking sites with embed code.
#
kylewm
sorry I missed that caveat
#
GWG
My plan is to use embed code for anything that has some and style everything else independently
#
kylewm
GWG, i support you as long as you read this first ;) http://adactio.com/journal/5698/
#
kylewm
(barnaby pointed me to that article when I asked about using twitter's embed code)
#
KartikPrabhu
kylewm: nice link :) adactio seems always on point
scor, snarfed and vanderwal joined the channel
#
GWG
kylewm: And what did you decide?
#
pdurbin
kylewm: that *is* a nice link. thanks
snarfed joined the channel
#
acegiak
morning, all
#
Loqi
acegiak: GWG left you a message 6 hours, 6 minutes ago: Pushed again, updated roadmap with plans. Starting to build display elements
#
acegiak
GWG: how are you going with display elements?
#
GWG
acegiak: Did you see what I pushed?
#
acegiak
looking inow
#
acegiak
fiddling with android timestep now
#
acegiak
I think setting it to delta might actually be the best way to go
#
acegiak
wrong channel, sorry
#
GWG
acegiak: Android timestep?
#
acegiak
GWG: working on a game, our android build has been running at weird speeds
efecto99 and caseorganic joined the channel
#
kylewm
brainstorm: if EvilAaronpk made CloneYourGram, a POOS service that copies your instagrams to twitter, I think it would be very popular
tantek and snarfed joined the channel
#
GWG
acegiak: So, what do you think?
#
acegiak
GWG: it's good work
#
acegiak
I'm just merging the two branches so that my content filter makes use of your functions
#
GWG
acegiak: I've been doing this since I started with these Indieweb plugins a few months back.
#
GWG
acegiak: I build it, then dismantle it into little pieces. I'm trying to get better at building the pieces first.
#
acegiak
yeah, makes sense
#
GWG
acegiak: It seems to work. Then I go back and break it into even more pieces.
#
GWG
acegiak: So, for the kind stuff, the next step, which I noted into the README, is the code that will display the URL being responded to. So I turned to the Wordpress Embed system
#
acegiak
alright, I'mmma test this merge and if it's all good I'll do a pull request
#
acegiak
sorry, typo
#
aaronpk
kylewm++
#
Loqi
kylewm has 17 karma
#
aaronpk
what is poos?
#
acegiak
GWG: I'm not sure I like doing things like embedding textual content? seems like asking for trouble with shifting urls etc?
#
acegiak
but then, I'm hotlinking content images which isn't much better...
#
GWG
Well, my plan would address that for you.
#
GWG
The design I'm thinking is that it checks the Wordpress Embed Provider, and if the site isn't supported, it defaults to a local handler.
#
GWG
I'll take pfefferle's philosophy every time I ask him that sort of question
#
acegiak
is the intention to not need a citation field?
#
GWG
I'll add a hook.
#
GWG
acegiak: More offloading visual presentation to the provider.
#
acegiak
so then indieweb sites need to be oembed providers?
#
GWG
acegiak: No. Then it falls back to a non-embed provider. But you can always write a handler for any site and add it to your installation
KartikPrabhu and snarfed joined the channel
#
kylewm
haha POOS is Post Only On Silos. sadly I didn't come up with it
#
aaronpk
oh right!
#
aaronpk
I did make this a while back... http://flickstagram.org/
#
aaronpk
1.5 million photos copied from instagram to flickr... not bad
#
onewheelskyward
heh, funny
#
onewheelskyward
I want the other way around
#
onewheelskyward
But instagram doesn't have an import.
#
Loqi
gives onewheelskyward the other way around
#
onewheelskyward
lol
#
GWG
Sorry...Call From Paris
#
GWG
Did I miss anything?
#
acegiak
GWG: just trying to work out what situations I need to throw an h-cite into the class list
#
GWG
The conditionals will likely get more complicated.
#
acegiak
mos def
#
GWG
Note, the way I set it up is partly based on tantek's suggestion about building one feature at a time, and one thing...like, reply, etc at a time.
#
GWG
I needed a baseline to start from before doing that.
#
acegiak
yeah definitely
#
aaronpk
tantek: which homebrew website meeting was the photo from outside?
#
tantek
it says in the caption
#
aaronpk
oh hey it's on the home page :)
#
tantek
it looks the prettiest and most fun :D
#
tantek
andi made us look all goofy ;)
#
aaronpk
it worked
#
aaronpk
ok to upload to the wiki? it's hotlinked right now
#
aaronpk
has a new appreciate for not hot-linking after attempting to back up the oauth.net wiki
#
aaronpk
s/appreciate/appreciation
#
Loqi
aaronpk meant to say: has a new appreciation for not hot-linking after attempting to back up the oauth.net wiki
emmak joined the channel
#
GWG
But this brings up a question back to the discussion I was having with acegiak a few moments ago. Would you hot-link and/or embed to a silo?
#
aaronpk
no, I want the site to be standalone
#
Loqi
gives aaronpk the site to be standalone
#
aaronpk
oh thanks loqi, that was easy
#
Loqi
you're welcome
#
aaronpk
i want to be able to download a copy and read the whole thing offline
#
GWG
Right now, I'm just trying to get the thing up. I think offline access can be a goal later.
#
aaronpk
naturally
#
tantek
aaronpk - not my photo, it's andi's photo
#
tantek
so you'll have to ask her - re: uploading
#
GWG
Does anyone think the best way to preserve a post on a site is screenshot, rather than citation?
#
bret
hrmm, only superficially
#
GWG
bret: I'm brainstorming
#
bret
aaronpk posted a screenshot of a hoax article and people belived it
#
aaronpk
that wasn't just a screeenshot
#
bret
i only saw the screenshot
#
GWG
Wonder what the solution is.
#
bret
im going to go with just storing a copy of a reply context
#
bret
no screenshot
#
bret
that seems difficult to do programatically
#
aaronpk
it's getting easier
#
GWG
But what does a reply-context look like and how you store it is another big question that would delay putting anything up.
#
bret
parsing h-entry vs toying with image magic
#
acegiak
reply contexts are the trick
#
GWG
acegiak: Someone is working on that
#
bret
i think parsing the reply context and re-displaying it is probrably enough evidence that someone said something
#
bret
in most cases
#
GWG
bret: pfefferle is working on that for Wordpress, the CMS both acegiak and I use.
#
bret
the question is, is it evil to keep a hidden copy of something someoe requests a delete for, like how its evil for facebook to do it?
#
GWG
bret: Unless you have a takedown request, I suppose
#
acegiak
GWG: pull request there for you
#
GWG
acegiak: I used a different file structure so both could co-exist, actually, by the way
#
bret
we could cryptographically sign our posts, and the reply contexts would allow for verification
#
bret
hehe
#
aaronpk
you *can* do any number of things. the real question is what is the end goal.
#
aaronpk
why do you need to prove/verify/whatever that the thing was posted
#
bret
i just want all your pretty faces to show up next to my post
#
GWG
bret: Hmm...
#
GWG
acegiak: Merged
#
aaronpk
I can tell you from personal experience that courts will go off of a printout of a screenshot of a tweet, they don't need more than that in some cases.
#
aaronpk
even if the tweet has been deleted
#
bret
in which case, that hoax website is tool for legal terrorism
#
bret
>:{D
#
GWG
acegiak: I may make a few modifications to your code. For one, I want to add a class that is common to all of the responses.
caseorganic, nloadholtes and pauloppenheim joined the channel
#
acegiak
GWG: code discussion should be in here
#
GWG
acegiak: I agree. How did it get in there?
#
acegiak
who knows
#
GWG
But, either way, wrapping the post content in e-content could be a problem
#
GWG
For example, take Sempress
#
rascul
why would it be a problem?
#
GWG
It already wraps the_content in the right classes. By doing it within the content filter, you would be effectively doing it twice
caseorganic joined the channel
#
rascul
oh ok, it's an implementation specific issue i guess
#
rascul
not something i need to worry about for making my site i mean
#
GWG
rascul: Yes. It is specific to the Wordpress plugin work we're doing
#
rascul
i apparently had missed the context
#
rascul
it only caught my eye because i had just been playing with h-entry and e-content yesterday and was still on my mind
snarfed joined the channel
#
GWG
acegiak: My point was that the filter should only mark up itself, not the other content.
#
rascul
ooo staring at sempress search results on duckduckgo just helped me come up with an idea how to store things for my site heh
#
GWG
rascul: Oh?
#
rascul
see at first i was trying to come up with some sort of alternative to metadata/front matter
#
rascul
and i figured i could parse it out with mf2py which works fine but leaves a bunch of ugly html at the top of the markdown files
#
rascul
solution i now have that is easier than all my other ideas is file names
#
rascul
filename="$(date --utc +%s)-article-title.md"
#
rascul
this seems so simple and obvious to me that i'm surprised it took me this long to figure it out
eschnou joined the channel
#
rascul
at first i didn't want date in path because it makes it hard for me to figure stuff out when i list the files, but this way is easy for me and is automagically sorted by date when i ls
#
kylewm
rascul: is date/title the only thing you wanted to store in front matter?
#
rascul
i can't really think of anything else to put there
#
rascul
or at least anything else i need to put there
#
kylewm
tags, location, in-reply-to urls, are the types of things i stick in there
brianloveswords joined the channel
#
rascul
i'm happy to express all that in microformats inside the post
#
kylewm
but if you don't need that stuff or have a different way to store it, that's great
#
kylewm
oh cool, i like that then
#
rascul
the site generator doesn't need to know all that i don't think
#
rascul
but then i get the problem i was trying to avoid at one time of mixing markdown and html, but i don't think that can be avoided unless i go all html
#
rascul
markdown + html is ugly
#
KartikPrabhu
i write posts in all html
#
rascul
also i discovered that mf2py was closing my <p> tags
#
KartikPrabhu
html5lib does that.
#
rascul
ahh ok
#
rascul
didn't bother me, but i often don't close them just to avoid the extra typing heh
#
KartikPrabhu
html5 parsers are supposed to do see html just like browsers
#
rascul
same with <li>
#
KartikPrabhu
<li> does not need to close according to HTML5 spec iirc
#
rascul
i mean, i often don't close <li>, i didn't mean that mf2py does because i didn't notice that
#
rascul
<p> also is not required to be closed
#
rascul
umm well sometimes anyway
fmarier joined the channel
dybskiy joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (-11) "/* Photos */ replace with local photo"
(view diff)
eschnou, chrissaad, snarfed and cweiske joined the channel
#
cweiske.de
created /indieauth-openid (+342) "Created page with "Proxies IndieAuth authorization requests to one's OpenID server. Lets you login with your OpenID server to indieauth sites. ;Code: : http://git.cweiske.de/indieauth-openid.git/...""
(view diff)
#
cweiske
aaronpk, who wrote the mediawiki indieauth plugin? when will it support federated logins?
#
aaronpk
I did. it just delegates to indieauth.com to handle logins. so as soon as I make indieauth.com understand federated logins the wiki will support it.
#
cweiske
so it will be wiki -> indieauth.com -> indieauth.id.cweiske.de -> id.cweiske.de -> indieauuth.id.cweiske.de -> indieauth.com -> wiki
#
aaronpk
sounds about right
#
@jalbertbowdenii
@algore magna carta of interwebs is being constructed by @indiewebcamp go to indie tech summit ask for @aral https://indietech.org/summit/
(twitter.com/_/status/476616359242379264)
eschnou and pfefferle joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /2014/SF/Schedule (+23) "add to Schedule category"
(view diff)
dybskiy and dybskiy_ joined the channel
#
cweiske
aaronpk, I'm confused by the names. did I implement an indieauth-openid proxy, a rel-me-proxy or something else?
#
cweiske
when I see https://github.com/indieweb/indieauth-client-php, it's probably an indieauth-openid proxy
#
aaronpk
i think indieauth-openid proxy sounds right
#
cweiske
http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth is too much about indieauth.com instead of the protocol itself
#
aaronpk
agreed
#
aaronpk
i was planning on rearranging it once I get more of the specific pages done
#
aaronpk
I also stubbed http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth.com which a lot of that will move onto
#
cweiske.de
edited /IndieAuth (+90) "/* OpenID support */ mention indieauth-openid"
(view diff)
#
cweiske.de
edited /OpenID (+23) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
(view diff)
#
cweiske.de
edited /distributed-indieauth (+25) "/* Use an authorization service */"
(view diff)
#
aaronpk
course you could always come up with a clever name for your indieauth+openid service
#
aaronpk
i'm terrible at naming things tho
#
cweiske
the jokes were made yesterday already
#
cweiske
i'm fine with indieauth-openid
#
aaronpk
alright i'm going to bed, it's super late! was working on the sponsorship page this evening.
#
aaronpk
congrats again on getting that working! super cool!
stream7 joined the channel
#
cweiske
224 LOC
#
cweiske.de
edited /login-brainstorming (+137) "/* Request */"
(view diff)
#
glennjones.net
edited /2014/Guest_List (+494) "/* Remote Participants */"
(view diff)
krendil joined the channel
#
cweiske.de
edited /Taproot (+30) "/* IndieWeb Support */"
(view diff)
#
cweiske.de
edited /distributed-indieauth (+41) "/* Sites that support distributed IndieAuth */"
(view diff)
petermolnar joined the channel
#
cweiske
!tell aaronpk - taproot/barnabywalters gives a incomplete URL as client_id: client_id=waterpigs.co.uk - is that allowed?
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
cweiske.de
edited /authorization-endpoint (+26) "/* See Also */"
(view diff)
#
@glennjones
Just signup to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014 as a remote participants, loved to have gone again, but flight costs too much in Jun #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/476639196321681408)
glennjones joined the channel
#
cweiske.de
edited /authorization-endpoint (+104) "/* See Also */"
(view diff)
#
cweiske.de
edited /login-brainstorming (+4) "/* Authorization Endpoint */"
(view diff)
Sebastien-L joined the channel
#
cweiske.de
edited /OpenID (+36) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
(view diff)
#
cweiske.de
edited /OpenID (+89) "/* Why does IndieAuth not consume OpenID? */"
(view diff)
#
cweiske.de
edited /OpenID (+8) "/* Why does IndieAuth not consume OpenID? */"
(view diff)
nloadholtes, Jeena, tobiastom and tantek joined the channel
#
pfefferle
cweiske++
#
Loqi
cweiske has 8 karma
#
pfefferle
cweiske nice indieauth/openid mapper!
#
cweiske
thanks
#
pfefferle
will try to set it up later
#
@hugoroyd
@Le_PAH si on veut. C'est dans le mouvement #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/476665706583719936)
barnabywalters and petermolnar joined the channel
#
@krijnsoeteman
@Loremann there are some workarounds (but definately not working for everything yet) indieweb, posse etc. http://dangillmor.com/2014/04/25/indie-web-important/
(twitter.com/_/status/476677923395870720)
wagle joined the channel
Phae and krendil joined the channel
#
@mapkyca
Made replying to posts from my site much much easier, now if more sites supported webmentions: http://webmention.org
(twitter.com/_/status/476688295746093057)
nloadholtes, pfefferle, efecto99, eschnou, michel_v_, scor, glennjones_, mattl, Sebastien-L, zaal, jsilvestre and lmjabreu_ joined the channel
#
GWG
Good day
wagle, ttepasse and brianloveswords joined the channel
#
GWG
pfefferle: I have a question for you
#
pfefferle
GWG and I hope I have an answer ;)
#
GWG
pfefferle: To what degree do you think a filter and or action hook is the answer to adding functionality? Been working on that project that acegiak is also contributing to
#
GWG
pfefferle: I ask because I've been putting in filters
#
pfefferle
I depends on the use case… I tried to focus only on webmention stuff for the webmention-plugin but I implemented nearly every parsing use-case in the semantic-linkbacks plugin
#
GWG
pfefferle: How so?
#
pfefferle
I like to keep plugins simple… everything that fits the scope should be part of the plugin and every special case should be handled seperately
#
pfefferle
semantic-linkbacks implements mf2 parsing but allows other parsers to hook in
#
cweiske
barnabywalters, your indieauth login does not send a full URL as client_id
#
cweiske
only waterpigs.co.uk, without http://
#
GWG
pfefferle: Do you have any advice for me? The Indieweb Taxonomy plugin is essentially the inverse of the semantic-linkbacks plugin. Semantic-Linkbacks adds the same thing to the comments type that Indieweb Taxonomy adds to the post type
luxagraf joined the channel
#
barnabywalters
cweiske: can’t remember, so it’s probably a bug
#
barnabywalters
either that, or I was thinking that it would be used on sites in “posted via X” attributions
#
barnabywalters
where the URL without the scheme would look cleaner
#
barnabywalters
but yeah, it’s probably a better idea to provide an actual URL
#
pfefferle
GWG: oh, I hope I won’t change it… But I think I would keep it like that if it should work independently from the semantic-linkbacks plugin
#
GWG
pfefferle: It should. One is for adding the layer to comments, the other for adding the same layer to posts
#
GWG
Although it may overlap with the reply-context plugin.
#
pfefferle
GWG we should add the meta-keys to the WIKI to stay compatible
#
cweiske
barnabywalters, please tell me once you fixed it. I'll try my indieauth proxy then on it
#
barnabywalters
cweiske: will do
#
pfefferle
GWG can you send me the url to the plugin we are talking about?
chrissaad and pfefferle joined the channel
#
GWG
Although acegiak 's latest commit is something I have to make some changes to.
tantek joined the channel
#
GWG
petermolnar: That character count code...why not throw that into a plugin?
pfefferle_ joined the channel
#
petermolnar
because I was lazy to to that and because it's not working in tinymce mode yet
#
petermolnar
but good point :)
#
petermolnar
and in the future I'll probably do it
#
GWG
petermolnar: I could use the counting
#
GWG
petermolnar: I will defer to you. I have enough Wordpress projects right now
#
petermolnar
I might have some time on Saturday to put it together, including the brilliant subversion of Wordpress.org
#
GWG
petermolnar: Even if you put it in a repository, people can download it
#
petermolnar
yes, but I'd like to solve why it's not working with the visual mode yet
#
GWG
On that note, must head off for a bit and contemplate if I should split off the location bits I put in the Taxonomy plugin into their own plugin or leave it where it is
gRegor` and chloeweil joined the channel
#
petermolnar
I'll put together a plugin for it
#
petermolnar
( this counts tinymce as well, autop not included )
#
sixtwothree.org
edited /projects (+65) "/* Jekyll */"
(view diff)
snarfed joined the channel
#
aaronpk
good morning!
#
Loqi
aaronpk: cweiske left you a message 6 hours, 57 minutes ago: - taproot/barnabywalters gives a incomplete URL as client_id: client_id=waterpigs.co.uk - is that allowed?
#
aaronpk
yes I think full URLs should be required as the client_id
#
barnabywalters
aaronpk: if that’s not part of the spec/docs then it should be — “id” is rather vague
#
aaronpk
yeah I agree
#
barnabywalters
might also be a good idea to specify, or at least suggest some really basic client app property discovery
#
barnabywalters
e.g. name, photo, URL
#
barnabywalters
just the basics required to display a nice graphic and link
#
barnabywalters
the most appropriate microformat tbh is probably h-product or even h-item
#
barnabywalters
we could also use h-x-app
edge226 joined the channel
#
barnabywalters
bnvk and I were documenting some common app properties in sight of creating app store discovery, and there’s plenty of other existing work on app-describing vocabs which is valid prior research
#
aaronpk
yeah cool
#
aaronpk
the idea is the OAuth screen should say "this app wants to ____" and show the app icon and name etc
#
barnabywalters
might it be worth forcing the u-url property of any discovery to at least have the same domain as the client_id? either that or ensure that the client_id is surfaced somewhere in the authorization UI
#
barnabywalters
otherwise that’s a really obvious identity fraud exploit
#
aaronpk
probably should require a match
#
barnabywalters
aaronpk: actually yeah an exact match is safest
#
barnabywalters
the one use-case I had for them being different but same domain was wrong
#
barnabywalters
yeah, a h-card isn’t really suitable here because an app isn’t a person, organisation or other contactable entity
#
barnabywalters
I’ll mark up my endpoint with h-product and h-x-app
glennjones joined the channel
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
petermolnar
I had a few minutes
glennjones_ and eschnou joined the channel
#
GWG
petermolnar, thanks
#
Loqi
GWG: petermolnar left you a message 8 minutes ago: https://github.com/petermolnar/content_excerpt_count
#
waterpigs.co.uk
edited /store (-21) "/* Protocols */ h-product is a vocab, not a protocol"
(view diff)
#
waterpigs.co.uk
edited /store (+171) "/* Vocabularies */ criticism of DOAP site"
(view diff)
#
aaronpk
barnabywalters: k! update the indieauth pages to reference h-app then too
#
barnabywalters
aaronpk: h-app doesn’t exist yet :) I need to take all bnvk’s research to the microformats wiki and start brainstorming. but for the moment h-x-app h-product with name, logo and URL will do fine
#
barnabywalters
wonders whether the difference between logo and photo is significant
#
aaronpk
i'm gonna also want redirect_uri in there, which is how apps "register" their valid redirect URIs
iangreenleaf, caseorganic, friedcell, paulcp, j12t and pauloppenheim joined the channel
#
barnabywalters
ugh now I have to finally come up with a logo for taproot, without using a cliché tree
#
barnabywalters
ha ha ha, a google image search for “taproot” is not very helpful https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=taproot&tbs=imgo:1&gws_rd=ssl
emmak, snarfed, snarfed1 and dybskiy joined the channel
#
@nobantu
Registration is OPEN for #IIW XIX #19 Take advantage of SUPER EarlyBird Prices now: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/internet-identity-workshop-xix-19-2014b-tickets-11845172229 #identity #VRM #UMA #Indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/476775711722582016)
#
aaronpk
thought I got my first webmention spam
#
aaronpk
turns out it was just bad markup causing the wrong p-name to be displayed
#
barnabywalters
oh hey cool, a new indiewebber
#
barnabywalters
another aaron!
#
barnabywalters
hrm, h-feed doesn’t have a “p-title” property. another issue to raise on sempress, perhaps
#
barnabywalters
eh, easy enough for a PR
tilgovi, j12t, caseorganic and lupinedev joined the channel
Kopfstein and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
barnabywalters
thoughts/feedback on first draft Taproot logo? http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4WYJVV/
#
aaronpk
you should look at it at like 48px tho
#
Loqi
agreed.
#
barnabywalters
aaronpk: yep, I have a bunch if plans for smaller versions
#
barnabywalters
basically less stuff when it’s smaller — fewer triangles, single green connecting line between each
#
aaronpk
keep distilling it down so that it looks good small. then chances are that will look good large.
#
aaronpk
the best logos have very few and highly recognizable components
#
KartikPrabhu
barnabywalters: IMO too many colours! Simple icons with 3-4 colours seem best
#
KartikPrabhu
i like the carrot inspiration though :)
#
KartikPrabhu
also SVG please ;)
#
barnabywalters
aaronpk: true — I think my instinct to start big was that a) that I always draw tiny detailed things, and b) from remembering when I thought that 512px was totally a great size to design iOS icons at, and that there’d totally never be any reason to have larger ones :)
#
barnabywalters
KartikPrabhu: thanks! I quite like having variations in colour but agreed there might be too many here. and of course I will provide a SVG version, but for publishing drafts it’s SO MUCH CODE to write
#
aaronpk
you write SVG code by hand?
#
KartikPrabhu
inkscape is your friend... sort of
#
KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: most drawing software have a lot of cruft in SVG, you'd have to edit it later anyway
bnvk joined the channel
#
barnabywalters
aaronpk: sometimes :) but using sketch for this. I’m actually referring to code used to embed it
#
barnabywalters
it’s at least eight times more effort than PNG
#
bnvk
what is to-do?
#
aaronpk
i thought svgs worked in <img> tags
#
KartikPrabhu
yeah they do
#
barnabywalters
export twice, upload twice, write <object>, remember SVG mime type, add <img> with PNG, add text description
#
bnvk
has anyone played with MF for to-do list items?
#
KartikPrabhu
i think barnabywalters wants to support SVG with fallback
dybskiy joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu
bnvk: not that I recall
#
barnabywalters
I guess I could improve my file upload UI…
#
aaronpk
my "file upload UI" is Skitch pointing to my WebDAV endpoint :)
#
barnabywalters
1) if the client detects that the to-be-uploaded file is a SVG, add another file upload dialogue for a fallback PNG
#
barnabywalters
then after upload, auto-insert correct markup
#
KartikPrabhu
barnabywalters: or do it in code on server using imagemagick?
#
bnvk
a decentralized to-do list using MF and web-mention just popped into my brain, seems like it would solve many of the worlds problems
#
barnabywalters
KartikPrabhu: does that produce good results? I’ve never found the magic setting in imagemagic/gd which makes it produce images which look good
#
barnabywalters
bnvk: there’s xoxo for HTML outlines: http://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo
#
KartikPrabhu
barnabywalters: haven't really played with it, but have been thinking of doing so for my own site for SVG fallbacks
#
barnabywalters
bnvk: if your idea of a “todo list” scales all the way up to things like trello, then each item/card could just be a h-entry
#
barnabywalters
and then marking something as “done” is just another response type like RSVP
#
barnabywalters
and “assigning” a task to someone is just like inviting someone to an event
#
aaronpk
I haven't even found a todo list mechanism that I like using, much less an app
#
barnabywalters
comments are obviously comments
#
barnabywalters
aaronpk: we use trello at work and have had some success with it. it’s flexible enough that it can be moulded to our liking
#
barnabywalters
other than that I just use text files
#
aaronpk
I like where this is going though. todo lists are a good "hello world" app.
#
bret
Would be fun to build that on top of task warrior
#
bret
Todo is haarrrrddd. It's ieasy to make a todo system that requires a todo list to manage
#
Loqi
bret has 13 karma
#
aaronpk
bret++
#
Loqi
bret has 14 karma
#
barnabywalters
bnvk: thanks for the feedback! to clarify, making the logo actually look like carrots is not what I’m going for :) Tor already took that idea
#
barnabywalters
agreed about the shape changes though
#
bnvk
barnabywalters: yes, exactly about the h-entry
#
bnvk
and on the receiving end, a client could choose to "accept" the RSVP (or todo item) onto their list
#
barnabywalters
this whole todo thing is quite similar to indieweb code issues, which has been discussed a little
#
bnvk
barnabywalters: but tor took onion, not a carrot
#
barnabywalters
and that’s certainly what I would use this for
#
bnvk
but, it's your logo, I was just thinking a nice vector carrot would look cool
#
barnabywalters
bnvk: yeah, but I don’t want to do a me-too “vegetable logo” — it’ll just look like I’m copying Tor
#
barnabywalters
agreed that vector carrots are the hotness
#
bnvk
lolz
#
bnvk
I def wouldn't think one other tech company (that does something quite diff) has a vegetable you were me too-ing it
cweiske joined the channel
#
bnvk
barnabywalters: it's just the current iteration is on the road to really neat abstract colored logo, but had you not posted the picture below, I never would have guessed carrots
#
barnabywalters
bnvk: that’s a good thing! carrots were the starting point, not the goal
#
barnabywalters
they just happened to weirdly match a bunch of indieweb symbolism
#
barnabywalters
much as the tor onion symbolises how tor works
#
bnvk
carry on then
#
KartikPrabhu
fwiw: I guessed carrots before seeing the picture :)
eschnou joined the channel
#
barnabywalters
KartikPrabhu: you are the carrot master
#
KartikPrabhu
i mean that's what "taproot" means right :D
#
barnabywalters
choosing one green is exponentially more difficult than choosing a bunch of different greens, it turns out
#
bret
Carrot master would be a good project name
#
KartikPrabhu
ha! I'll suggest it next time aaronpk asks for project names :P
#
cweiske.de
edited /login-brainstorming (+282) "/* Request */"
(view diff)
#
bnvk
Master of the Carrots
#
cweiske
carrot ironfounderson?
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /login-brainstorming (+9) "/* Request */ scope not used here"
(view diff)
paulcp joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /auth-brainstorming (+12) "/* Summary */ add "scope" to request for the authorization example"
(view diff)
#
aaronpk
cweiske: "scope" was missing from the "auth-brainstorming" page, but not from the "login-brainstorming" page. good catch tho.
#
barnabywalters
cweiske: a Pratchett fan?
#
cweiske
when having all the books (including world of poo) counts as fan, then yes :)
#
cweiske
and "where is my cow"
paulcp joined the channel
#
barnabywalters
impressive!
#
cweiske
the two are my most recent aquisitions. both are available in english only, which is ok for where is my cow - instant translation while reading the kids is easy, but impossible for world of poo
pfefferle joined the channel
#
aaronpk
ooh getting better
#
Jeena
I implemented a local cache for webmention avatars. As always the biggest problem is not solved yet, cache invalidation. I'm not quite sure how to do it, I would need to add metadata to the files somehow do know when to redownload the images. But where would I put it ...
petermolnar joined the channel
#
snarfed
Jeena: the age old solution is polling
#
aaronpk
if we assumed URLs never changed, then the solution is simple
#
aaronpk
for example when you upload a new avatar to twitter, it gets a new URL
#
aaronpk
then any future posts would reference the new filename
#
aaronpk
is tempted to do that and just see what happens
#
snarfed
aaronpk: huh. i actually wonder if twitter already does that right now
#
snarfed
looking
#
Jeena
yeah that was the reason I did it
#
snarfed
aaronpk: why yes it does. tweet.author.image.url in their JSON data
#
Jeena
I just wanted to prevent the non existent avatars if someone uploads a new one
#
snarfed
totally
#
snarfed
bridgy is dumb and just rechecks every user every couple hrs or so: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/blob/master/cron.py#L40
#
Jeena
but polling the twitter api to get the new avatar seems kind of a overkill
#
snarfed
eh it's fine for a small # of users
#
aaronpk
that's what i'm saying, no polling needed
#
snarfed
exactly, aaronpk's solution is way better, and works right now. brilliant!
#
aaronpk
stash the avatar at a URL that matches the remote URL ( see http://indiewebcamp.com/indiearchive )
#
Jeena
but what with people like me who change the image but the url is still the same
#
aaronpk
then new tweets will reference a new URL which you'll then go fetch and save. you'll end up storing several avatars per person btu that's probably good actually.
#
barnabywalters
is going to have to over-ride the display of bridgy’s default “favourited” message with the proper spelling ;)
#
snarfed
Jeena: the filename is usually different. i'd guess twitter actually *always* makes it different
#
@netdivermag
@indiewebcamp 2014 -> two days of brainstorming & creating - join to be a part of advancing & growing the indie web. http://indiewebcamp.com/2014
(twitter.com/_/status/476809291652145152)
#
snarfed
barnabywalters: lol
#
Jeena
snarfed yes, twitter does, Facebook doesn't, I don't either so the cache would never be updated
#
aaronpk
in twitter's case yeah, but I think Jeena was talking about indieweb avatars
#
Jeena
exactly
#
snarfed
twitter is really the only problem child of the silos
#
aaronpk
i kind of like this design pattern actually
#
snarfed
so in parallel, we keep lobbying twitter to let developers use a long-lived URL that always redirects to the current image, like FB, G+, etc., since what are we, farmers? :P
#
aaronpk
twitter has that now
#
aaronpk
https://twitter.com/aaronpk/profile_image always redirects to the current avatar
#
aaronpk
we could follow a similar pattern.
#
aaronpk
if you really want to have a well-known avatar URL on your own domain, just send a 302 redirect to the actual file from that URL
#
Jeena
oh that is cool
#
aaronpk
then clients caching it can cache based on the final URL
#
aaronpk
then the caches will be automatically updated when you update your photo
#
Jeena
but this will never work for everybody
#
aaronpk
and people still write broken HTML
#
barnabywalters
who was it talking about having multiple avatars, changing automatically based on emoticons in posts? that was an awesome idea
#
aaronpk
point is it works, and if some people do it, it becomes a design pattern others can follow
#
Jeena
people will just upload a different image and expect the clients to change it after the Expire time
#
Jeena
thats what the expire headers are for
#
aaronpk
then clients should also respect the expire headers, what's hard about that?
#
snarfed
aaronpk: but sadly twitter's /profile_image is unreliable and they explicitly tell you not to write code that uses it
#
snarfed
as opposed to the other silos, which officially support theirs
#
Jeena
the only thing hard is to where to put the metadata about the image :-p
#
snarfed
Jeena: EXIF, obviously :P
#
Jeena
haha, I was thinking about that
#
aaronpk
oh dear
#
Jeena
but yeah, that is not cool, I assume I will just add a $id.cache file where I put all the metadata in
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /how-to-sponsor (+215) "add link to PDF"
(view diff)
LukasRos joined the channel
squeakytoy joined the channel
#
Jeena
the coolest thing about the cache is the speed, getting the avatars from different servers, and then letting the browser resize it took quite some time, now the file size is tiny, 2-3kb and doesn't have to be resized by the browser anymore
#
aaronpk
you're serving them all from your own domain now?
#
aaronpk
I wonder if it's worth an optimization like inlining the image into a data URI, or making an avatar CSS sprite
#
aaronpk
for a facepile with like 20 or more images it might make a difference. not sure tho.
erikmaarten joined the channel
#
Jeena
first time loading https://jeena.net/photos/9 with about 60 avatars took 3,2 seconds (it needed to get the pictures from facebook and twitter) second time without browser cache but cached on the server 2,2 seconds third with browser cache 820ms
#
aaronpk
"," is your decimal mark, right?
#
Jeena
firefox downloaded about 30 of them parallel
#
Jeena
yes aaronpk
#
aaronpk
I don't see that very often, heh
#
Jeena
I'm from Europe :-p
#
Jeena
oh no, that is not true, it doesn't download that many of them in parallel, just 4 or 5 at a time it seems
#
Jeena
hm so first time would be faster to inline them but after that it wouldn't matter a lot I think
#
sixtwothree.org
edited /webmention (+86) "/* Publishing Software */"
(view diff)
#
sixtwothree.org
edited /2014/Guest_List (+83) "/* Regrets */"
(view diff)
eschnou joined the channel
wolftune, ttepasse and paulcp joined the channel
#
Jeena
Ok, I went for the easy solution. If someone wants to see the avatar and it is older then 2 weeks then I redownload it. If the download doesn't work I just touch the file so it will not hit the cache check for the next two weeks
#
Jeena
one more cool thing is that all images are now served from a https website
tantek, tantek_, krendil, aaronpk_, the_merlin, sdboyer, icco, reidab and tommorris joined the channel
#
tantek.com
edited /remote_participation (+527) "dfn, equipment, see also"
(view diff)
tilgovi joined the channel
#
wolftune
Hi folks
#
aaronpk
hello wolftune!
#
wolftune
I want to come attend IndieWebCamp as an apprentice in some sense… basically I've been wanting to get toward indie web and update my own site (currently a mix of Google/Blogger hosted old stuff)
#
aaronpk
great! which coast are you on? it's happening in Portland and in New York!
#
wolftune
I live in Oregon City, 15 miles south of Portland
#
aaronpk
also if you have your own site and can add a link to your twitter or github, you may even be able to sign in to the wiki right now and add yourself to the guest list!
#
wolftune
I started into more independent directions and concerns about proprietary software and centralization a little over two years ago, but I ended up getting involved in big ambitious Free/Libre/Open type projects and still haven't dealt with my own site
#
wolftune
My crazy long-term plan is really to start fresh with Yesod and get a server and all
#
wolftune
right now, it's a blogger site at blog.wolftune.com and an old Google Sites thing at www.wolftune.com that I haven't touched in years
natwelch joined the channel
#
wolftune
I kept thinking maybe I could revamp my site before IndieWebCamp but I just keep being busy with the truly independent website I'm building with others that isn't my personal site
#
wolftune
aaronpk: are you saying I could get things working using the Blogger-hosted or Google Sites thing that is the status quo of wolftune.com ?
#
aaronpk
possibly, depends on how much markup they let you add
vanderwal joined the channel
#
aaronpk
if you can add a link to your twitter profile that has a rel=me attribute then yes
#
rascul
google sites you can do whatever iirc
#
wolftune
truth is, I want to escape from all of that… but, well, it's where I'm at right now
#
wolftune
aaronpk: I have never ever used Twitter
#
aaronpk
github?
#
wolftune
ok, yeah I have a GitHub account
#
rascul
github pages you can use
#
aaronpk
that'll work then
#
wolftune
I'm confused, I thought IndieWebCamp was about independence from centralized services”½
#
cweiske
welcome in this world
#
aaronpk
incrementally :)
#
rascul
you can run your own indieauth stuff
#
rascul
best to take small steps
#
aaronpk
also if your email address supports persona you can use that
#
aaronpk
or SMS
tantek joined the channel
#
wolftune
the main project I work on uses Persona exclusively (other than a built-in log-in) to be as privacy and indepent-respecting as possible
#
wolftune
I like Persona overall
#
aaronpk
so if you already have that set up, just add a link to your email address on your home page like <a href="mailto:you@example.com" rel="me"> then you should be able to sign in to the wiki using persona
#
cweiske
is anyone besides me running his own indieauth server (not counting indieauth.com)?
#
rascul
i do like persona it's quite good and can be decentralized and is from mozilla
#
wolftune
aaronpk: oh cool ok
#
rascul
cweiske i'm not but it's possible that i might eventually
#
wolftune
it's too bad that Persona got their funding cut off though
#
wolftune
long-term we're hoping to provide Free/Libre/Open projects with more sustainable fundraising, so maybe in the *long* term we can help Persona… ;)
#
rascul
no didn't get funding cut, they just moved full time devs from it
#
aaronpk
basically equivalent :)
#
wolftune
rascul: that's the same thing
#
rascul
they still support it and fix it and whatnot
#
wolftune
they didn't cut ALL support
#
rascul
i guess they figured it's feature complete
#
wolftune
thankfully
#
wolftune
rascul: no, they did NOT think that
#
wolftune
they thought that their minimal marketting didn't go amazingly well so they gave up and decided to focus on "Firefox Accounts"
#
wolftune
rascul: right, and that indicates that they did not think it was feature complete by a long-shot. The whole browserID aspect hasn't been done even
#
rascul
i like to make stuff up when i don't really remember the details
#
rascul
i do it all the time without even realizing it heh
#
wolftune
aaronpk: so, I wish it wasn't so, but my domain's e-mail goes through Google still at this time, I don't suppose that's what you meant about authenticating through Persona… I mean, I don't actually authenticate Persona myself, if I use it with the e-mail, it either validates through Mozilla or Google…
#
wolftune
rascul: heh, it happens
#
aaronpk
yeah I just mean if you've set up persona it'll work
#
wolftune
aaronpk: by "set up" you mean, I can use the e-mail…
#
wolftune
with Persona
#
aaronpk
liek.. if you've ever logged into anything with persona before
#
wolftune
well yeah
#
wolftune
ah it's the rel="me" bit that does this then?
#
wolftune
aaronpk: one more question: what counts as "home" ? I make http://wolftune.com redirect to blog.wolftune.com right now, but you can successfully go to www.wolftune.com
#
snarfed
wolftune: just fyi, you can also add webmentions to a blogger blog with https://www.brid.gy/
#
aaronpk
the redirect handling is a little complicated, but less complicated using email for auth. you should be able to sign in as www.wolftune.com
#
aaronpk
if you can add your email address link to your blogger blog, then you should be able to sign in as just wolftune.com
#
aaronpk
i don't know if blogger supports that
#
wolftune
aaronpk: should be fine then, thanks! I'll figure it out
#
wolftune
snarfed: I'm not sure what that is, but I'm wary of all the centralized "social network" things… I still find it weird that IndieWebCamp is referencing them much
#
rascul
whoa Loqi going crazy!
#
Loqi
who, me?
#
snarfed
aaronpk wolftune: blogger does support that. you can edit your template and add arbitrary html
#
wolftune
snarfed: right, I figured thanks
#
snarfed
wolftune: understood. IWC references them because they're the reality right now, ie they're in the lead in terms of adoption and features
#
snarfed
and given that, cooperating with them is more likely to help us succeed (as opposed to fighting and staying disconnected)
#
wolftune
snarfed: I *really* like the idea of connecting with pragmatists who do what is needed but who are willing to *apologize* for it and acknowledge what stinks!
#
snarfed
great!
#
Jeena
rascul I tried to install my own browserid instance but honestly I don't think it is possible with the software which is out there now without writing and implementing quite a lot of stuff
#
rascul
Jeena i've never tried, i just recall seeing some docs from mozilla about getting it going
#
wolftune
My personal view is that people should feel the need and the pressure to apologize for using Facebook etc.
#
wolftune
that's enough though
#
Jeena
yeah there are docs, but it is a mess ;)
#
wolftune
otherwise, you don't need to be dogmatic
#
snarfed
wolftune++ for no dogma
#
Loqi
wolftune has 1 karma
#
snarfed
there's a range of opinions here. plenty of us still like and appreciate the silos, as well as wanting our own data
#
snarfed
regardless, sounds like you'll fit in fine!
#
KartikPrabhu
sounds like wolftune would be a Gen3 adopter (http://indiewebcamp.com/generations#IndieWeb_Generations) nice... welcome
#
wolftune
I don't like dogma, but I don't like ambivalence, apathy, or people downplaying and avoiding political issues either
paulcp joined the channel
#
bret
wolftune: what do you mean by "weird that IndieWebCamp is referencing them much
#
wolftune
KartikPrabhu: yes, but I got "communicating over IRC, and editing wikis… and Comfortable with lengthy documentation." from Gen1, and I'm learning Haskell which is web-based via Yesod (and know basic HTML/CSS)
#
bret
err silios that is
#
bret
Yesod looks rad, i want to learn it soon
#
KartikPrabhu
wolftune: nice!
#
wolftune
bret: I meant like it's weird to me on first impression to see IndieWebCamp have Facebook and Twitter etc prominent in some places
#
wolftune
bret: you want to learn Yesod?? I've got a project for you!
#
bret
lol i have a few projects in the qeueue right now, but hit me ;)
TimAbraldes joined the channel
#
aaronpk
wolftune: the key is to own your identity. that's different from saying "don't use silos"
binbasti joined the channel
#
wolftune
aaronpk: huh, interesting…
#
bret
wolftune: what do you mean by 'have' twitter/facebook in places?
#
wolftune
well, just making sense of things here
#
bret
does it seem like we are promoting their use?
#
wolftune
bret: are you a software-freedom sorta supporter / sympathizer?
#
aaronpk
bret: i think he was referencing when I suggested linking to his twitter or github profile to sign in to the wiki
#
bret
totally
jacus joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu
bret: i think wolftune is referring to things where we use silos for the indieweb for instance Twitter/Github for Indieauth, or POSSE and bridgy
#
bret
well partially, not sure how to have it manafest personally
#
snarfed
KartikPrabhu, bret, wolftune: definitely! we don't mind using the silos as infrastructure for hard parts they do well. e.g. friend graphs, pubsub, etc.
#
rascul
i'm not gonna use facebook but i might posse to twitter eventually
#
wolftune
bret: ok, seriously then: our project is up your alley AND we've been actively helping new folks learning Yesod and Haskell (I'm one of the learners as I'm coming from a non-coding background)
#
snarfed
as well as distribution to the majority of users who aren't yet indiewebified
#
rascul
that's a big might there for me
#
KartikPrabhu
in an ideal world everyone would have an indiewebsite which are interoperable, but until then we have to work with existing silos and write code to talk to them through POSSE and bridgy
#
bret
im personally trying to build tools that make those things secondary to my own choice (which happen to be what I build myself) at this point
#
wolftune
and we're over at #snowdrift
#
wolftune
it's *completely* independent from silos and such and 100% Free/Open
#
mattl
wolftune: are you still based in Rhode Island?
#
bret
i like that but I also worry that it can be too isolating
#
wolftune
bret: yes, but it's the starting point from which to go forward
#
wolftune
we're ok with isolation for now as we haven't launched or promoted yet as it isn't operating yet
#
bret
we need to build lots of bridgest that meet at different points
#
wolftune
we're getting there
#
wolftune
we WANT to build bridges, but we want the strongest foundation on one site to build from
#
wolftune
mattl: hi, and no, I'm from Michigan actually but moved out to Oregon last summer
#
bret
woo! portland?
#
mattl
wolftune: aha... i'm thinking of cashmusic i guess.
#
wolftune
bret: well Oregon City, 15 miles south
#
bret
ah cool!
#
bret
know some internetians who live out there
#
wolftune
mattl: oh yeah, that's an interesting project
#
wolftune
my cofounder lives in Oakland, CA
#
mattl
oh nice.
#
mattl
i've never been to oakland but i'm in SF a lot.
bpayton joined the channel
#
bret
wolftune: if silo integration isn't part of your interest, there have been a few projects and efforts to create cross website/implementation communication via webmention and microformats 2 as well as identity stuff like indieauth and recently micropub allowing posting clients to work across implementations
#
wolftune
bret: interesting
#
wolftune
yeah, I'm still learning about all this
#
wolftune
I care about the privacy issues with the internet these days
dybskiy joined the channel
#
bret
the parts we have to agree on are pretty minimal and rock solid... like http POST requests ;)
#
bret
microformat 2 vocab aslo, but all that is a few html class names
#
bret
literally
#
rascul
it might be nifty if there was an indieweb silo type thing
#
rascul
i dunno if silo is the term for what i'm looking for though
#
bret
rascul: news.indiewebcamp.com?
#
rascul
ooo yeah maybe like that
#
aaronpk
what is an aggregator?
#
aaronpk
really?
#
rascul
there is no aggregator page!
#
bret
wolftune: check out http://indiewebcamp.com/antipattern for some idea of general philosophy
#
rascul
the wiki wants me to create /aggregator
#
wolftune
bret: thanks
#
rascul
looks like only a few people sending stuff to news.indiewebcamp.com maybe the word needs to be spread some more
#
bret
in terms of examples, check out community member personal websites mainly
#
wolftune
so, I sense things are a mix
#
bret
a complete mix
#
bret
how it should be :)
#
wolftune
it's interesting and certainly people come to different ways of making sense of our networked world…
#
aaronpk
rascul: likely there needs to be more incentive to put things there
#
rascul
yeah maybe
#
aaronpk
like if there was even IRC notifications that something had been submitted there :)
#
aaronpk
still don't know why I haven't done that...
#
rascul
looks at Loqi
fmarier joined the channel
#
wolftune
aaronpk: should the rel=me thing be used for a public link that other people might use to e-mail me? or should I keep it hidden for some reason?
#
bret
wolftune: if you get a chance, add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
#
wolftune
will do, after I figure out log-in
#
aaronpk
wolftune: if you already have a public link you can just add it to that. otherwise it's fine to put it on a hidden link if you don't want it visible
#
wolftune
aaronpk: k thanks
#
bret
you can also use that as a way to find peoples projects if you are talking to them in irc
#
wolftune
aaronpk: oh interesting, is there any reason necessarily to use the SAME e-mail as the rel=me for Persona??
#
wolftune
because I could use a different Persona-connected e-mail, that wouldn't work, right?
#
aaronpk
in the case of email login, it's not doing bidirectional verification, just one-way
#
wolftune
aaronpk: so, it's like anyone could log-in to IndieWebCamp with my domain just because there's a rel=me link?
#
aaronpk
if you can convince me to add your email address with a rel=me link on my site then yes you can sign in as me
#
wolftune
aaronpk: that's not what I mean. I mean, I assume that Persona needs to tell IndieWebCamp that the logged in e-mail matches the thing from the site, right?
#
bret
so could I put a rel me into a comment on a poorly coded site, and log in as them?
#
bret
ok bbl
#
wolftune
I'm in!
ttepasse joined the channel
#
wolftune.com
edited /2014/Guest_List (+209) "Added myself (Aaron Wolf)"
(view diff)
#
aaronpk
bret: yes
ttepasse joined the channel
#
wolftune.com
edited /IRC_People (+57) "added myself to IRC list"
(view diff)
#
aaronpk
wolftune: we don't check for a link back from your email to your website, so any email you link to with rel=me from your home page can be used to sign in
#
aaronpk
same with phone numbers
#
wolftune
aaronpk: that's fine, I just assumed it would complain if I then signed in with a different e-mail
#
rascul
wolftune now you gotta make your user page! and put a dfn in it so you get nifty stuff like this
#
wolftune
I didn't check
#
rascul
whois rascul
#
Loqi
Ray Schulz is a slacker who likes to make things http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Rascul.io
tantek joined the channel
#
wolftune
I have to go… back later
j12t joined the channel
#
kylewm
bret: checkmention tries to do that hack specifically, tries to add a comment with a rel-me to Jony Ives'
#
@planet_php
IndieAuth-OpenID proxy: The IndieWeb movement is much about "code before talk", and on this way whee... http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/indieauth-openid.htm?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=laconi
(twitter.com/_/status/476849283849666560)
#
aaronpk
bret: do you know if barnaby's h-feed to atom converter would work with my tag pages? cause then I could add my php tag to planet php! http://planet-php.net/submit/
#
GWG
Heidy ho, campers.
#
@php_by
IndieAuth-OpenID proxy - Christian Weiske: The IndieWeb movement is much about "code before talk", a... http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/indieauth-openid.htm
(twitter.com/_/status/476851474148753408)
#
GWG
What's going on?
pauloppenheim and scor joined the channel
#
kylewm
GWG, we've gone from 1 Aaron to 3 in one day
j12t_ joined the channel
#
GWG
aaronpk has been reproducing asexually?
#
aaronpk
crazy idea... or maybe not so crazy.
#
GWG
You are going to need more whiteboards
#
aaronpk
maybe I should run another instance of indieauth.com at auth.indiewebcamp.com just to point out that a web service delegating logins to indieauth.com does not make indieauth a centralized protocol
#
kylewm
does that criticism come up much? (that indieauth is centralized?)
#
aaronpk
to people who don't look into it very much yes
#
aaronpk
at first glance it looks like everything has to go through indieauth.com
#
bret
the counter argument to that criticism should be "Is it?"
#
aaronpk
"look closely"
#
bret
kylewm: shweet, need to play with that
#
aaronpk
I like the planet-php.net submit page: http://planet-php.net/submit/
#
aaronpk
"And please provide a link to an RSS/Atom feed for just your PHP category, Planet PHP readers usually don't want to read about your cat"
glennjones joined the channel
#
bret
aaronpk: can indieauth use an openID provider as an auth provider?
tantek joined the channel
#
aaronpk
bret: it used to but it was super unstable and error prone so I disabled it. cweiske just made a proxy that lets you do that tho
#
bret
lol, i like
#
bret
i like cweiske's post*
#
aaronpk
lots of good links!
j12t and tantek joined the channel
#
bret
reinvention, or making wheels better!?
#
bret
it could also be seen as a simplification, microformats instead of libravatar, atom feeds and ombed
#
bret
3 separete things, all consolidated into a single format
#
aaronpk
sounds like good material for a short blog post :)
#
bret
is rel=me a microformat?
#
tantek
Exactly, simplification.
#
tantek
It is
j12t_ joined the channel
#
tantek
A very small one :)
#
bret
are all rel= values microformats?
#
tantek
Sort of? Got blurred as soon as HTML5 decided to officially use the microformats rel registry.
#
bret
gah, wish my micropub endpoint was working with quill
#
aaronpk
bret: why is it not?
#
bret
lol frantic hacking to cut the scope of the days work to just get ownyourgram working
#
aaronpk
oh right like only handling multipart posts?
#
bret
a lot of abstractions were cut and overlapped that day
#
bret
need to clean it all up
#
bret
and make it handle ALL forms and generalize data handling
#
tantek
Bret what was the context of your 3 separate things?
#
bret
tantek: scratch that 4 separate things: http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/indieauth-openid.htm
#
bret
its actually a good comparison
#
tantek
Hmm not loading for me
#
tantek
HTTP ERROR: 504
#
tantek
HTTP ERROR: 504
#
aaronpk
jeez I wish there was a good tool that let you preview an RSS/Atom feed...
#
tantek
HTTP ERROR: 504
#
tantek
HTTP ERROR: 504
#
aaronpk
if only we had some way to render the feed as html...
#
bret
aaronpk i know right!?
#
tantek
HTTP ERROR: 504
#
tantek
Gateway Timeout
#
aaronpk
tantek is erroring out, lol
#
bret
aaronpk: try an xml prettifyer
#
tantek
No that's from cweiske's server
j12t_ joined the channel
paulcp joined the channel
#
tantek
Bret ah I see
#
tantek
Yes it makes the case quite well that we've simplified the previous "stack" / mishmash of DNS extension, XML, and JSON
#
bret
writing a simple reply
#
tantek
Great! what you said about simplification rather than reinvention.
#
bret
what was the DNS extension?
#
tantek
Libravatar
#
bret
clears throat
#
bret
are you kidding?
#
bret
i assumed to was like a .well-known extension
#
KevinMarks
he bridged indieauth to openID? but indieauth is my OpenID provider. loop time?
#
bret
aaronpk how hard would it be to run my own indieauth server on a free paas?
#
aaronpk
KevinMarks: yep getting dangerously close to loop territory
#
aaronpk
bret: i haven't ever tried running it on heroku but in theory you can
tantek joined the channel
#
bret
running my own authentication server sounds dangerously unexciting
#
aaronpk
pretty much
#
snarfed
bret++ perfect description
#
Loqi
bret has 15 karma
#
snarfed
like the famous description of war. "long periods of boredom, punctuated by moments of sheer terror"
#
bret
snarfed++
#
Loqi
snarfed has 29 karma
tantek joined the channel
#
bret
what were the key ingredients to openid? like how indieauth is rel=me and oauth
#
aaronpk
uh... crypto?
#
rascul
i wonder if it would be worth signing my posts and making a signed copy of it available
#
aaronpk
sure! would be interesting to see if anybody does anything with it
#
rascul
i've been pondering that for today and yesterday
#
bret
yeah would be neat to see it if you want to do it
#
rascul
somthing to do later on
j12t and bnvk joined the channel
#
aaronpk
it always is "later on" heh
#
aaronpk
never seems to be a high enough priority for anyone to actually start
bnvk1 and eschnou joined the channel
#
bret
im not edward snowden, and publishing private things is a bad way to keep them private
#
bret
better to wisper into someone ear
#
bret
privacy needs a bittorrent
#
bret
something that is unstopable and deeply empowering and difficult to screw up
#
bret
even if there are only a few tools available
#
bret
it seems like the tooling is the hardest part
bnvk joined the channel
#
bret
aaronpk: also re-tag page
#
bret
im not sure?
#
bret
the title needs to be fixed
#
aaronpk
oh yeah I don't have a proper h-feed, just a bunch of h-entries
#
bret
it would probrably work, how does the feed look in the feed validator?
#
KevinMarks
plays with docker
#
aaronpk
wow so escaping
#
kylewm
KevinMarks, curious to hear your experience with it. i've been wondering if it would make my stuff more or less complicated
#
bret
aaronpk: is micropub just atompub with microformat vocab and without xmlrpc?
#
aaronpk
oh yeah add that to the list of wheels
#
bret
i am
#
bret
aaronpk: do you know the vocab that atompub used?
#
aaronpk
atompub does a little more though cause it also include a way to retrieve records
#
bret
whut
#
aaronpk
which we might need in micropub soon
#
bret
oh for editing?
#
KevinMarks
"you're replacing a square, triangular and pentagonal wheel with a set of round ones"
#
bret
KevinMarks++
#
Loqi
KevinMarks has 36 karma
#
aaronpk
KevinMarks++
#
Loqi
KevinMarks has 37 karma
#
KevinMarks
atompub is CRUD
#
KevinMarks
in both senses of the word
#
bret
Its even funnier to read that in your head with KevinMarks's voice
#
bret
aaronpk: do we even need... yes source formatting
#
KevinMarks
I can't really hear my own voice in my head
#
bret
KevinMarks: its called your thought process ;)
#
aaronpk
good point, I can't really picture what my voice sounds like
#
bret
you sound like your thoughts
#
bret
i think?
#
aaronpk
sometimes i think in german if i try really hard
#
bret
at least i imagine others thinking like how they speak
#
bret
thats why its importaint to speak gooder