#indiewebcamp 2014-06-23

2014-06-23 UTC
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JonathanNeal Correct. Well, there’s no point in me copying that because I can’t add things to the clipboard.
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JonathanNeal So the link would simply reselect the same selection and add the citation.
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/480530061326442496/2788841 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Guest_List#Farther_East (webmention)
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aaronpk !tell tantek should I add amber's and my osbridge talks to the /events page even though it's not possible to attend unless you buy a ticket to osbridge?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@grigs RT @scottjenson: http://camlistore.org is a cool personal cloud storage and services. If you're into the #indieweb you need to check this … (twitter.com/_/status/480886379224641536)
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aaronparecki.com edited /micropub (+541) "/* Updating Objects */ tagging" (view diff)
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aaronpk !tell bnvk see http://indiewebcamp.com/kirby-login-app#Alternate_Setup for a little better explanation of how I envision a sort of "pre-registration" of the GPG key from Kirby
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@benwerd IndieWebCamp 2013 changed my life. If you're on the west coast, in NYC, or Berlin, you should join us next week: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014 (twitter.com/_/status/480888221140656129)
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/indiewebcamp-2013-changed-my-life-if-youre-on-the-west linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014 (webmention)
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bnvk aaronpk: coolio
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Loqi bnvk: aaronpk left you a message 9 minutes ago: see http://indiewebcamp.com/kirby-login-app#Alternate_Setup for a little better explanation of how I envision a sort of "pre-registration" of the GPG key from Kirby
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bnvk :)
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KartikPrabhu hey guys... some help with my "secret project" :P Here is the related post: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia would appreciate if people sent some comments via webmention to a "fragmentioned" URL for that post so I can play around with marginalia UX/UI. I really don't know what test-comment to leave as I put all my own thoughts into the article :)
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KartikPrabhu cc: aaronpk, GWG, kylewm, gregor` ^ :)
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KartikPrabhu goes on a dinner + decompression break
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kylewm !tell KartikPrabhu did it work? did it work? https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia##So+if+you+sent+a+webmention
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: right now it appears below as a normal comment with a fragmention link! onto UI/UX thanks :D
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: kylewm left you a message 5 minutes ago: did it work? did it work? https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia##So+if+you+sent+a+webmention
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: lol it fragmentions the wrong paragraph! lot to fix
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: oh interesting
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kylewm I thought that was my doing ... I'd linked to a fragment on that paragraph earlier
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kylewm thought it was stuck somehow
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KartikPrabhu something wrong with the way the fragmention.js is working on my site... lot of js in my future week
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: does fragmention.js not work if loaded async?
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: example: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia##So+if+you+sent+a+webmention
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@SocialMLeader - IndieWebCamp 2013 changed my life. If you're on the west coast, in NYC, or Berlin, you should join us next week... http://werd.io/2014/indiewebcamp-2013-changed-my-life-if-youre-on-the-west (twitter.com/_/status/480908955041161216)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/480530061326442496/2582885936 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Guest_List#Farther_East (webmention)
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: back, loading URL
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JonathanNeal Taking quite a while to load.
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KartikPrabhu uh oh... not good... will analyse that slowness too
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: I think the trouble is that the script "activates" either on dom-load or hashChange and async loading happens after domload... that is my guess
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JonathanNeal Is there a fragmention script running on that paeg?
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JonathanNeal Or are we talking about the Chrome plugin?
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KartikPrabhu fragmention.js script
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JonathanNeal Awesome. Okay, now I see it. Yes, the script should be updated to allow asynchronous load.
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KartikPrabhu maybe some sort of init method should do it yes?
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KartikPrabhu a fragmention object would be sweet and exposes the different methods... for instance I'd like to access the "parent element" given a particular fragmention, or the fragmention URL given a string or something
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JonathanNeal Great catch, KartikPrabhu. I’ve fixed it. Pushing shortly.
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KartikPrabhu awesome!
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: as a FYI with that article I am hoping to get "Medium-style" marginalia (annotations) using fragmentions... hope to have it ready by next weekend for indiewebcamp
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@pairsonnalitesD DE-News : #IndieWebCamp 2014 next weekend PDX NYC & now BERLIN thanks to 2011 camper @brennannovak! RSVP: ... https://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2F2014%2F172%2Ft3%2Findiewebcamp-next-weekend-pdx-nyc-berlin&ct=ga&cd=CAIyAA&usg=AFQjCNFgBPDuhy-5x2FjtpUEExObqH-YOg&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/480923250403201024)
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KartikPrabhu judas priest! that's a horrible URL!
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KartikPrabhu also a silo link to a indieweb post! ha!
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: I made my changes before pulling in previous changes. Merge conflicts will set me back another 15 minutes.
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: no hurry. I plan to get to this tomorrow. Too much javascript for me to handle at this late hour
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Loqi tantek: aaronpk left you a message 3 hours, 29 minutes ago: should I add amber's and my osbridge talks to the /events page even though it's not possible to attend unless you buy a ticket to osbridge?
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tantek aaronpk - yes - any talk that is IndieWeb related
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tantek though I think I forgot to add my talk from PDF
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KartikPrabhu tantek: a peek at something I hope to get working for IWC https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia would appreciate thoughts (hopefully as a fragmentioned webmention) :)
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bret KartikPrabhu: super cool, prepare for possible pushback from existing annotation efforts :p
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bret would love to see that get working across some sites this week/end
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KartikPrabhu bret: I know... but this seems the easiest to implement refer comment by kylewm https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia#response-121 :P
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bret oh man, didnt even see that
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bret KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 33 karma
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bret so cool!
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: the script has been updated. Happy fragmentioning!
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bret KartikPrabhu: plans to display it in the actual margin?
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bret like medium or something similar
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KartikPrabhu bret: yes. prject for this next week before IWC on saturday :D feel free to add marginalia in the meantime :)
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: awesome! many thanks
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal++
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Loqi JonathanNeal has 10 karma
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erinjorichey.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+332) "/* West */" (view diff)
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erinjorichey.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+37) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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tantek JonathanNeal: where's th script?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: here afaik: https://github.com/chapmanu/fragmentions
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JonathanNeal ^ what KartikPrabhu said, also fixed an issue with literal + plus character encoding.
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tantek looks for the other script
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KartikPrabhu tantek: other?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: for appending fragmention citations to copy
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KartikPrabhu aah I see. i don't think that is public... is it JonathanNeal? ^
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: https://github.com/chapmanu/fragmentions certainly is public
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: no the one adding fragmention citations to copied text on Ctrl+C
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tantek ok going to bed then - tty in the morning!
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KartikPrabhu night tantek
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: it’s in the same repo, under the folder at the top labeled “chrome-extension”.
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KartikPrabhu aah i see. cool!
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notenoughneon.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+331) "/* West */" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+3411) "Expanded & divided "To Do". Added "Former setups". "Current": short domain." (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /WordPress (+146) "/* People using WordPress */ me, i'm using it" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks @juliepagano have a great osbridge. Say hi to #indieweb people there (twitter.com/_/status/480974752849199104)
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notizblog.org edited /webmention (+2) "fixed link anchor" (view diff)
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rascul i'm wondering, for index pages, should i sort by dt-published or dt-updated?
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pfefferle rascul I think it depends on the update… if you add new content, it might be good to display it on top… if you only change a typo it might not…
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pfefferle I would prefer ”žcreated“
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rascul the capability to distinguish between adding and correcting isn't feasible, at least not at this time
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rascul created is fine with me
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@yatil @bastianallgeier And using that domain for IndieAuth as well :-D (twitter.com/_/status/480999970066407424)
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petermolnar good morning
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petermolnar I've been thinking about the indieweb vs silo thing from a different point of view: let's say the movement succeeds and a lot of photographers and artists will move to their own site. Some of the silos, like deviantart, never offered a proper api to publish, therefore the could not be used in that case and I'm fairly sure a lot would miss browsing art like the way you can do it now.
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petermolnar Had anyone thought about indieweb aggregators, especially for media-like content, that could replace sites like deviantart?
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rascul http://indiewebcamp.com/commons
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rascul that might be what you're thinking of with the aggregator?
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rascul see http://news.indiewebcamp.com/ for an example of what can be done
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petermolnar news looks like a good start
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tommorris petermolnar: That’s more the problem of the aggregator. ;-)
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tommorris petermolnar: the main thing would be to have more “blogroll” style links between sites.
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/469255534307049472/2390439998 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-05-21-twitter-j-compromised.png (webmention)
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tommorris then you can explore in a more serendipitious webbish way.
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/474329990897860609/2390439998 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-06-04-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/469270155575312385/2390439998 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/480530061326442496/2390439998 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Guest_List#Farther_East (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/469959390078832640/2390439998 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/https#Level_2_security (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/473507324040974336/2390439998 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/note#IndieWeb_Examples (webmention)
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bnvk1 !tell tantek apparently this Japanese bot really likes your Twitter https://twitter.com/shigumabaku5
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@philip_roberts At this point I've no idea how anyone thinks this indieweb thing is ever gonna work. (twitter.com/_/status/481036063197380609)
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@MikeMcQuaid IndieWeb is a nice idea but horribly impractical. People moved to Facebook/Tumblr from self-hosted WordPress due to their comparative ease. (twitter.com/_/status/481037337510825985)
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rascul eh i don't feel that's accurate
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@decadecity @philip_roberts One of the challenges of indieweb is going to be making self hosting easier by reducing knowledge barrier required. (twitter.com/_/status/481038205220036608)
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petermolnar ( I'm not sure that knowledge barrier really is a bad thing )
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rascul i think you may be correct to an extent
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@brennannovak @MikeMcQuaid the trick with the #IndieWeb is to develop the protocols & software that make the #UX as pleasant- then make easy installers (twitter.com/_/status/481040914937577472)
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rascul gen 4 guys (when we get there) will still need some knowledge http://indiewebcamp.com/generations#Generation_4_IndieWeb
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rascul but i would argue that the people who care about their online identity and data will take the extra bit of time to gain the knowledge they need
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bnvk hallo barnabywalters
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barnabywalters bnvk: greetings
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bnvk where in the world are you?
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bnvk ah cool
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bnvk dah, i'm arguing on Twitter about the Indieweb
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bnvk bad brennan, bad Twitter
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rascul why do people feel the need to preach about how horrible something is just because they're not interested in it?
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rascul bnvk i'm following the conversation heh
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bnvk exactly
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rascul i'm resisting the urge to engage in a twitter fight
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rascul http://xkcd.com/386/
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bnvk The reason I try is because I believe that deep down they believe in and agree with the ideals, but find too much cognitive dissonance and they need their biases confirmed- thus they argue
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bnvk rascul: yah, or just that comic :P
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rascul this person does not appear to have informed and constructive arguments on this topic
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bnvk nope
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rascul plus i'm waiting to post on twitter until i can do it from my site, i don't want to ruin my fun!
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rascul if you're using wordpress.com could you still use sempress theme or the uf2 plugin?
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@brennannovak @MikeMcQuaid I don't think most of #IndieWeb community believes all components of all systems need to be 100%... http://bnvk.me/ql9 (twitter.com/_/status/481051665001639937)
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pfefferle rascul there is a sempress version for wordpress.com but they removed all the mf2 stuff
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rascul ahh ok
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pfefferle rascul http://theme.wordpress.com/themes/sempress/
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pfefferle I think you need an vip account to add custom plugins/themes
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pfefferle it seems to work anyways because of the mf1 markup, but not that good as the self hosted version http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsempressdemo.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F09%2F20%2Fsed-elit-leo-fringilla%2F
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@brennannovak @MikeMcQuaid actually that is an entirely new point- we started arguing about the usability of #IndieWeb software vs. Tumblr, etc... :] (twitter.com/_/status/481060136744914944)
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Loqi tantek: bnvk1 left you a message 2 hours, 35 minutes ago: apparently this Japanese bot really likes your Twitter https://twitter.com/shigumabaku5
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tantek heh
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GWG Why would they remove the mf2 stuff?
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GWG Does it hurt anything?
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GWG pfefferle, by the way, using some of your SemPress code.
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pfefferle GWG I have no idea!
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GWG pfefferle, you used a function to add classes to the theme, seemed like a good idea
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pfefferle :)
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GWG I was doing it manually.
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GWG Maybe it is time to add a repository for mf2_bootstrap
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GWG That is the next generation of my theming
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pfefferle GWG good luck… added some thoughts on the wordpress/development page
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jonnybarnes I've written up making my site accessible over IPv6: https://jonnybarnes.net/blog/2014/06/getting-ipv6-support
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jonnybarnes maybe its helpful for anyone else
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jonnybarnes who here uses ZNC as their bouncer?
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jonnybarnes the ZNC wiki suggests setting a cron job to run the `znc` command on a regular basis in case the program crashes
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jonnybarnes do people do that?
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/480530061326442496/2602684409 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Guest_List#Farther_East (webmention)
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kylewm jonnybarnes: I don't and I don't think it's crashed in the last ~3 months I've been using it
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aaronpk jonnybarnes: my znc has been running for 22 weeks
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jonnybarnes cool, sounds reassuring
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Loqi [mention] http://colintedford.com/2014/06/231226-website/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://colintedford.com/2014/06/231226-website/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Colintedford.com#To_Do (pingback)
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KartikPrabhu catches up
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KartikPrabhu lot of empty criticism thrown at indieweb today
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aaronpk yeah... was reading that.
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aaronpk meh
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KartikPrabhu "how does anyone think it will work" well because it is working right now.
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KartikPrabhu "horribly impractical" what aspect is horribly impractical? lot of people are using it right now (and working on making it easy)
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KartikPrabhu I'd like if these people made some actual arguments.
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aaronpk but it's so much easier to throw empty criticism around and see if it sticks anywhere
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KartikPrabhu yeah. In that sense I liked Joschi Kuphal's criticism even though I didn't agree with it
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aaronpk !tell tantek it seems like it might be more appropriate to add our osbridge talks to the /presentations page rather than /events
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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KartikPrabhu this is good criticism: http://twtr.io/niydB4WYPU
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KartikPrabhu doh! https://twitter.com/decadecity/status/481038205220036608
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@decadecity @philip_roberts One of the challenges of indieweb is going to be making self hosting easier by reducing knowledge barrier required. (twitter.com/_/status/481038205220036608)
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Loqi tantek: aaronpk left you a message 1 minute ago: it seems like it might be more appropriate to add our osbridge talks to the /presentations page rather than /events
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aaronparecki.com edited /presentations (+185) "add osbridge talks. will add URLs tomorrow after the talks." (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /presentations (+103) "link to related pages" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - makes sense
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tantek I can do the same with my PDF indieweb talk
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tantek perhaps events should be indieweb-focused events
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tantek and indieweb talks/presentations at other events can go in /presentations
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tantek (even upcoming)
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tantek everyone getting their projects ready for IndieWebCamp this weekend? :)
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snarfed KartikPrabhu set a high bar, marginalia is pretty great
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mattl tantek: i wish :/
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snarfed can't wait to see a version that renders the comments inline, next to the part of the post they're addressing
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tantek snarfed, that would be amazing!!!
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tantek basically a proof of concept of IndieWeb "medium" like interactions - federated of course ;)
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snarfed (ahem, medium style :P)
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snarfed exactly
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tantek far beyond the silo-centric solutions that the annotations people are pursuing (e.g. with an "annotation server" bottleneck etc.)
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message on 6/21 at 7:26pm: great blog post - and totally reasonable bars to set. looking forward to seeing you meet them :) http://werd.io/2014/simple-quick-stupid-set-the-bar-low-so-you-can
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tantek though the Hypothesis folks have done some GREAT work with UI we should be paying attention to
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snarfed !tell KartikPrabhu just fyi, i tried contributing a marginalia (marginalium?), but it's not appearing on your post yet: https://snarfed.org/2014-06-23_marginalia-parallel-transport-2 . not urgent. great work regardless!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek with bnvk's organizing of IndieWebCamp 2014 site in Berlin, did the Leonard Cohen lyric come to anyone else?
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tantek "First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin" ;)
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benwerd tantek: re bars, those are absolutely the goals. Meeting some of them already.
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benwerd aaronpk: re bars, when do you think drinks on Friday are likely to start? :)
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benwerd trying to juggle meetings in PDX (we're there all day on Friday) but don't want to overlap with indiewebcamp pre-drinks
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snarfed !tell KartikPrabhu this could be a candidate for rendering marginalia inline: https://github.com/aroc/side-comments
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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barnabywalters tantek: RE lyrics, I was just thinking that :)
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tantek digs up his indieweb "jam" that he posted a few months ago to see if he can do so manually again.
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tantek.com edited /2014 (+4) "move some less relevant items further down" (view diff)
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: snarfed left you a message 19 minutes ago: just fyi, i tried contributing a marginalia (marginalium?), but it's not appearing on your post yet: https://snarfed.org/2014-06-23_marginalia-parallel-transport-2 . not urgent. great work regardless!
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: snarfed left you a message 6 minutes ago: this could be a candidate for rendering marginalia inline: https://github.com/aroc/side-comments
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tantek KartikPrabhu++ for awesome progress on marginalia!
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 34 karma
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014 (-1) "no trailing slash for event URL" (view diff)
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aaronpk b 21
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aaronpk undo
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: there does not seem to be a link to my post in yours. So the webmention is unsuccessful
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tantek not even a fragmention?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: there actually is a link, it just doesn't have any link text, so you don't see it visibly. does your wm handler require link text?
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snarfed the html snippet is <a class="u-in-reply-to" href="https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia##The+visual+display"></a>
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: hmm looking more carefully then :)
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snarfed (i usually omit link text in replies, since i haven't implemented reply context)
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tantek snarfed, how about just "in reply to: URL" where URL is the link text?
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aaronpk snarfed: looking at that url it would actually be more helpful if you visibly linked to the URL
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tantek starting simple like that
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aaronpk otherwise your post appears entirely out of context
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tantek exactly
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snarfed tantek: aaronpk: yes, all true. i think we've had this discussion before. :P
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tantek snarfed, it just doesn't look like a reply
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tantek so it seems - oddly confusing
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: do you want test fragmention comments on your paragraphs, or on any element (e.g. blockquotes)?
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snarfed again, i agree on all points. i haven't done it because it would take more work to render outside of the e-content, and i don't show replies/likes in my stream, so it's not a personal itch
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tantek if you can generate <a class="u-in-reply-to" href="https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia##The+visual+display"></a> then you can generate in reply to: <a class="u-in-reply-to" href="https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia##The+visual+display">kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia##The+visual+display</a>
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: any is good. I want to try to see what kind of places people want to comment :)
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snarfed (very few if any people actually look at my reply posts)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:esri-logo.png]]""
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: of course, real data is always the most useful :) I shall leave a legit comment
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aaronparecki.com edited /Sponsors (+523) "add bridgy and esri pdx sponsors" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: yes that is why I opened it up for comments here. I didn't want to do "this is a test comment" myself.
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snarfed the problem with including link text in my current in-reply-to link is that it would be included in the reply text, and rendered as part of the comment on the target site, which i don't want
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: I found the link testing why it isn't working now
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tantek oh is it embedded in the e-content?
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aaronpk ah right, that's tricky
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snarfed yup, as i mentioned a few lines above :P
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tantek right, it belongs inside the h-entry but not inside the e-content
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snarfed (heh, sorry for being snippy. maybe i need more coffee.)
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barnabywalters wonders if I can make a fragmention with a fragmention in
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tantek snarfed, np at all - you've likely explained this before and we're being dense/stubborn ;)
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JonathanNeal fragception
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snarfed JonathanNeal++
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Loqi JonathanNeal has 11 karma
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tantek BOOOOOOOINGGGGGGGG
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barnabywalters tantek: the errant I in there makes it sound less like inception and more like a giant trampoline :)
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KartikPrabhu yeah that ^^^
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aaronpk whoa what happened to tantek
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barnabywalters not that that is in any way bad
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bnvk did someone ask me something?
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bnvk my client has been giving me weird alerts status
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barnabywalters aw, looks like https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia##http://example.com%23%23some+random+text isn’t working
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barnabywalters no fragmenception
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: the whole thing should be URI incoded right including the / ?
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: hrm maybe that’s it
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:nyt-logo.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /Sponsors (+220) "/* 2014 PDX Sponsors */ add NYT" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - I don't think we should be uploading others' logos to the wiki
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tantek since we can't put them in CC0
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tantek hot link it instead
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aaronpk hm :/
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aaronpk can I add a note on the image page saying it's copyright?
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tantek nope - because all contributions to the wiki are cc0
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barnabywalters nope, https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia##http%3A%2F%2Fexample.com%23%23some%2Brandom%2Btext isn’t working either :(
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aaronpk how bout I put them on the server but outside of the mediawiki database
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JonathanNeal ut oh. i’m gonna have to change some things. huh.
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tantek FYI: announcing in ~15 minutes: https://wiki.mozilla.org/WeeklyUpdates/2014-06-23#Saturday.2C_28_June
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: is that fragmention not supposed to work?
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JonathanNeal No, any fragmention is supposed to work.
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gRegor` Did somebody say *ception? http://inception.davepedu.com/
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JonathanNeal URL encoding is weird. I have to manually encode literal + signs, and not get them confused with spaces that are also represented by plus signs.
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia#response-122 somehow it worked when I sent a webmention directly
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: ok! thanks
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KartikPrabhu somehow your server did not send a webmention then?
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: also thanks for that library github link. But it uses jQuery which I wish to avoid
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: ok. out of curiosity, why?
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JonathanNeal “Federated marginalia” is probably the most legitimate sounding term I have ever heard in our industry.
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KartikPrabhu damn! :P
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Loqi hehe
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: it is huge... and most parts are not needed for simple stuff
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KartikPrabhu as in most people import all of jQuery just to use their "$" syntax! I mean come on
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barnabywalters gRegor`: bookmarked :D
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JonathanNeal snarfed, KartikPrabhu, what uses jQuery?
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snarfed JonathanNeal: https://github.com/aroc/side-comments
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KartikPrabhu yeah ^
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JonathanNeal Interesting. I haven’t followed the discussion. You’re building medium style comments that utilize fragmentions?
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: yup!
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: I left a fragmention comment but the webmention failed, and sending it through your form also complained there was no link to the target http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4WjHpC/
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: the form does not handle fragmentions yet! only post level comments
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aaronparecki.com edited /Sponsors (+185) "replace 2 logos with absolute ref version" (view diff)
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barnabywalters have a good indiewebcamp everyone! document everything! see you in three weeks!
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:idno-logo.png "Copyright violation: no copyright logos uploaded to the wiki"
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:elemental-logo.png "Copyright violation"
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gRegor` barnabywalters: Can you explain the space replacement going on at line 126 here? https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/commit/c628e69358295cf9c36e6f106e0a60f8c384b991#diff-e7fb77dd90cffca8242259e1d61ca0b0R126
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barnabywalters gRegor`: looking
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gRegor` Oh, that's replacing with a tab?
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barnabywalters gRegor`: yup, normalising space, tab and newline to space for then exploding on space
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gRegor` OHH, I really misread that.
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gRegor` It's an array. Got it.
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barnabywalters gRegor`: indeed!
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gRegor` I've not used [] as an array shortcut in str_replace before. Good to know.
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aaronpk barnabywalters: are you forcing me to update my phps again
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barnabywalters aaronpk: oops actually that’s a mistake
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barnabywalters but also yes
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aaronpk :)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2013/Hollywood (+113) "/* Sponsors */ replace logos with non-wiki version" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: again somehow it worked when I sent a webmention myself!
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aaronparecki.com edited /Sponsors (+129) "/* 2013 Hollywood Sponsors */ replace logos with non-wiki version" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:trsst.png "Copyright violation"
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aaronparecki.com edited /Sponsors (+124) "replace google logo" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:google-logo.png "Copyright violation"
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: see https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia#response-123
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: are you sending manually using cURL on the command line?
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KartikPrabhu I am using bear's ronkyuu package basically some python requests library code
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bear s/bear/bear and kartik's/
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bear it's very much a shared project now :)
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KartikPrabhu bear: sure :)
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: maybe it is an issue with cURL
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: you also linked to the wrong twitter account mine would be @kartik_prabhu
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: oops! sorry, correcting
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barnabywalters #wouldnthavehappenedwithadomain
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KartikPrabhu yup!
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aaronparecki.com created /Template:sponsor-logo (+120) "new template for adding sponsor logos" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu should be possible to do @kartikprabhu.com for instance and autolink that
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barnabywalters yeah I used to have a really nice system for autolinking domains and twitter IDs, but it was very slow
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KartikPrabhu alos my post seems to have badly broken your reply context styling
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snarfed barnabywalters: you'll be happy (maybe :P) to know your recent posse-update-a-previous-post is helping drive bridgy design decisions: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/pull/199/files#r14089700
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: yup, it’s a know issue
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barnabywalters that code needs work to make it better handle articles and photo posts
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KartikPrabhu hey! I resent the webmention from your post barnabywalters and the comment just updated! it's alive...!
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: you should submit marginalia to indienews! http://news.indiewebcamp.com/submit
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: will do when I have the actual margin display UI/UX working
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KartikPrabhu I think that is the key bit for this
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barnabywalters snarfed: good to know! I don’t understand exactly what that comment is referring to, but glad to be of use/real life example :)
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KartikPrabhu as you can see the post goes public on 28th June :D
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aaronparecki.com edited /Sponsors (-63) "replace logos, use new template" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:nyt-logo.png "Copyright violation"
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:esri-logo.png "Copyright violation"
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aaronparecki.com edited /Bridgy (-38) "remove logo" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: is you webmention sender also using cUrl?
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:bridgy-logo.jpg "Copyright violation"
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:mozilla-logo.png "Copyright violation"
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: no, it's pfefferle's wordpress-webmention plugin
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: seems both that and cUrl don't like fragmentions
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benwerd That Reclaim Your Domain hackathon in LA: http://lahackathon.reclaimyourdomain.org/
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:mozillalogo.jpg "Copyright violation"
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aaronpk ha well this never went anywhere... http://indiewebcamp.com/File:IndieAuthLogo100.png
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KartikPrabhu ha! looks cute. like a crayon drawing
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snarfed aaronpk: heh. i was about to say you could leave the bridgy logo, since bridgy is public domain, but then i realized i willfully stole the logo from somewhere else myself, so…um…never mind :P
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: another trouble with the side-comments is its reliance on JSON for the comments. I want to just enhance the already present HTML+mf2
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: sure. i have no particular attachment to that project, just looked interesting
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: Also I don't mean to come off as all negative. That is a useful link and I will refer to it for some pointers :)
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: np!
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JonathanNeal I’ve just been walking around the office, saying clearly and slowly “federated marginalia“.
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KartikPrabhu lol!
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KartikPrabhu #buzzword
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JonathanNeal How about FM-style comments.
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KartikPrabhu what is FM?
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JonathanNeal says in a clear and slow voice “federated marginalia”
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snarfed or maybe "red pen"
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snarfed ("red ink," etc)
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KartikPrabhu haha...
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bret KartikPrabhu how do I find your FM article on your site? not in articles or notes?
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KartikPrabhu bret: it is future dated to be released on indiewebcamp day so not is streams yet
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bret oh cool!
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KartikPrabhu https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia here is the link. It is of course not the final form of that article
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KartikPrabhu I'll add more about the UI/UX part and fix the lame introduction
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aaronparecki.com edited /Sponsors (+39) "link to more out-of-wiki logos" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:superfeedr-logo.png "Copyright violation"
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:network-redux-logo.png "Copyright violation"
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:status-net-logo.png "Copyright violation"
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:geoloqi-logo.png "Copyright violation"
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:osbridge-logo.gif "Copyright violation"
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:osbridge_logo.gif "content was: "#REDIRECT [[File:osbridge-logo.gif]]" (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Aaronpk|Aaronpk]]")"
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KartikPrabhu oh wow so many copyright violations
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aaronpk tantek is right about the logos, we can't distribute them as part of the wiki cause they're all copyright
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: hmm so have external links?
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aaronpk i put them on the server so they're still local links, but this way they aren't included in the backup of the wiki
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:ualogo.jpg "Copyright violation"
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:tropologo.png "r"
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aaronparecki.com edited /Sponsors (-212) "replace all other logos" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:osbridge-logo.png "Copyright violation"
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:clearleft-logo.png "Copyright violation"
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:theskiff-logo.png "Copyright violation"
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:wklogo.png "Copyright violation"
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:ualogo.png "Copyright violation"
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:tropologo-vert.png "Copyright violation"
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aaronpk done
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kylewm http://indiewebcamp.com/File:IndieAuthLogo100.png looks like a RealWorld logo :)
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kylewm The Real World*
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kylewm ugh, sorry for CamelCasing you Real World
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KartikPrabhu RealWorld^(TM)
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cweiske aaronpk, does indieauth.com rely on keybase to retrieve gpg keys, or does it support normal pgp key servers?
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aaronpk It uses whatever key you link to from your home page
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cweiske you link a keybase.io url from your homepage
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cweiske I didn't see a linked gpg key
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cweiske or a gpg hash
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cweiske resp. key id
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aaronpk cweiske: check for rel=pgpkey on my site
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cweiske ah
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cweiske didn't find that in the rel=me section
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aaronpk right
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aaronpk i think its correct to not have rel=me on that link
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aaronpk whoa, google is becoming a domain registrar? https://domains.google.com/
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bnvk I think they've offered that for many years
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aaronpk it says it's invite only right now
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bnvk but it used to bounce you to GoDaddy associate thing
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tantek so when is amazon going to be a domain registrar?
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sparverius jeez i feel like it's bad to have your domains tied to your google account
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sparverius especially if you use gapps
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sparverius that's an ouroboros of fail just waiting to happen
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aaronpk does anyone else credit the app used to create posts on their site? (e.g. the "posted using ownyourgram.com" on the side here http://aaron.pk/n4Wh1 )
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snarfed tantek does, right?
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snarfed i've only ever seen bbedit, but still
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, not yet. its on my todo list
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: want to do it right now so amber and I can use a screenshot as an example for our talks tomorrow? :)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: re:posting apps I'd like to do that. At the moment I do it for webmentions, I write "via twitter.com" or "via aaronparecki.com" etc...
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tantek that's right, BBEdit is my authoring tool per: http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#Publishing_UI
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tantek (currently)
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ben_thatmustbeme i could probably look at it, i don't currently record what created the entry yet though
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tantek when I have an actual publishing UI built into Falcon that will be updated to say so :)
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aaronpk meh it's ok, i'll find some other examples
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tantek aaronpk, it is recorded in my storage however - each post stores what tool was used with the "using" class name
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tantek which gets read, and then written to the generated permalink pages accordingly
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tantek so it's not just static text (in case you were wondering)
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aaronpk ah cool
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aaronpk heh just realizes your permalink pages don't show it, only the list view
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tantek oh weird. well the home page is also generated from storage so there you go.
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tantek aaronpk, looking into that now...
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tantek aaronpk, good catch. fixed.
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tantek permalink pages for all post types now show it
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tantek bbiab
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bnvk aaronpk: my friend Michael might come to IWC PDX this weekend, so be on the lookout for a tall guy with glasses ;)
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KartikPrabhu bnvk: does tall guy with glasses narrow it down in PDX?
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aaronpk cool!
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bnvk KartikPrabhu: yes, PDX is full of mostly midgets and dwarves
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KartikPrabhu :P
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: I’m really excited to see what you do with marginalia.
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: thanks! This has been at the back of mind for quite a while. would be great to finally make it :)
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JonathanNeal As a general overview, how will you implement it?
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JonathanNeal I would love to experiment with it. I might not be able to pull off the webmention stuff right away.
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jonnybarnes fellow znc users, occasionaly when I wake my laptop up it fails to connect, but when I retry to connect its succesful and I get a full buffer playback
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jonnybarnes the error message I see is "nodename nor servname provided, or not known"
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jonnybarnes any ideas?
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: here is my plan so far: I already have the responses as normal comments in HTML. So write a Javascript to
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KartikPrabhu 1. pick out the comments which have a fragmention as "u-in-reply-to"
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KartikPrabhu 2. put the responses inside the correct <p> using the fragmention.js code
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KartikPrabhu 3. add a "button" to show/hide the marginalia responses by adding suitable classes
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JonathanNeal What would be an example "u-in-reply-to" value?
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jonnybarnes Have you guys seen this: http://domains.google.com/about/
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jonnybarnes they're becoming a registrar I think
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: for example see: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia#response-121 That one has "u-in-reply-to = ##So+if+you+sent+a+webmention"
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KartikPrabhu it is just the fragmention that you'd link to in your own post
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JonathanNeal Wonderful.
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JonathanNeal You could stick an attribute or classname on elements that support marginalia. Like <div data-marginalia>, <p data-marginalia>, <p data-marginalia="after">
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JonathanNeal The JavaScript returns some element matching the fragmention, and then you use element.closest('[data-marginalia]')
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: at the moment I want to try it out on everything! see how people use it. it would be nice to only do it on <p> inside an article though, so that is a good suggestion.
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KartikPrabhu wants element-queries... the marginalia CSS would be so much cleaner
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JonathanNeal From a DOM tree perspective, I’m trying to imagine what that looks like. Is the comment some generated DOM inside the <p>aragraph? After the <p>aragraph?
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: My thought right now was to put it inside the <p> at the end. Using .append or something... so it would look like <p>text text <ol class="marginalia-list"></ol></p>
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JonathanNeal And what happens if someone fragmentions a comment?
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KartikPrabhu dang! good question :P
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KartikPrabhu haven't thought of that. might have to do some special casing
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KartikPrabhu ideally people who want to reply to a comment should be doing that on the comment permalink page, not my content page
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bret http://indiewebcamp.com/File:IndieAuthLogo100.png++
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aaronpk haha
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aaronpk i think that was a placeholder logo or something. it's not even linked to on any page
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bret no sponsors yet?
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bret (other than bridgy)
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aaronpk just bridgy and the venue sponsors right now
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bret and the esri
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aaronpk esri being a venue sponsor
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bret bigbluehat, you might be interested in: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia definitely in line with annotation efforts.
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aaronpk wtf did flickr just change their layout again?
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bret stream looks fairly the same
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bret aaronpk screenshot?
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aaronpk https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2915/14488904891_94b58b8557_b.jpg and https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3889/14491004754_ef0cc577a7_b.jpg
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bret oh the lightbox view
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aaronpk no that's just the photo permalink page now
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bret nice i like it
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aaronpk i *think* it's better... not sure yet
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@Souders RT @scottjenson: http://camlistore.org is a cool personal cloud storage and services. If you're into the #indieweb you need to check this … (twitter.com/_/status/481186654720245761)
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aaronpk ok yes it's better. the number of clicks to change the privacy of a photo is way down
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kylewm hey, i have been wondering... is http://2014.xoxofest.com/ related to http://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo ?
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aaronpk heh no
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bear @aaronpk can I put down &yet as sponsoring lunch for both days at NYC event?
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kylewm ok i was a little confused :)
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aaronpk bear: absolutely!
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aaronpk have you already coordinated with tantek on that?
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bear no, just got clearance to make the offer
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aaronpk sweet
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bnvk &yet is awesome!
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bear.im created /&yet (+130) "Created page with "'''<dfn>[http://andyet.com/about &yet]</dfn>''' is different kind of consulting company because we make software for people first."" (view diff)
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bear I hope that is an ok page to add
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aaronpk sure, i'd phrase it in third person tho
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aaronpk what is &yet?
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aaronpk i don't know if that escaping is going to work...
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bear yea, that dang & is always mucking things up for us
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bear.im edited /&yet (-5) (view diff)
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bear.im created /andyet (+125) "Created page with "'''<dfn>[http://andyet.com/about &yet]</dfn>''' is different kind of consulting company who builds software for people first."" (view diff)
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bear ok, I added it as andyet
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bear what is andyet
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Loqi &yet is different kind of consulting company who builds software for people first http://indiewebcamp.com/andyet
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bear thanks - and please do suggest edits - I am very bad at this corporate shilling stuff so don't want to make any mistakes
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bear.im edited /2014 (+21) "/* East Coast (New York) */" (view diff)
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bear k, added us as sponsors
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bear.im edited /2014 (-4) "/* East Coast (New York) */" (view diff)
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bnvk ampersand-yet ?
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bear "and" yet
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rascul &amp;yet
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aaronparecki.com edited /Sponsors (+494) "add Known and &yet sponsors" (view diff)
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aaronpk benwerd: we had 4:30pm on the wiki for Friday but I'm up for pushing it back later if you want
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benwerd aaronpk: thanks - sorry, had somehow missed that. All sounds good
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wordyard.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+231) "/* West */" (view diff)
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kylewm heck yeah, glad scott's coming!
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aaronpk yeah awesome!
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kylewm oh actually lots of people signed up since i last looked, awesome
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kylewm.com edited /2014/Guest_List (-2) "/* West */ update counts" (view diff)
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rascul i probably sign up for cambridge in a few weeks, gonna get ticket first to get up there
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rascul gonna take the train!
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rascul bear no mention of indieweb :( http://andyet.com/team/bear
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bear they don't let me write my bio
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bear but I may put in an edit request because your right!
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rascul :)
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bear they don't normally let ops folk near the word-smithy areas of our site ;)
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aaronpk confirmed venue for friday pre-party!
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GWG aaronpk: Is East having one?
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aaronpk not sure, that's up to tantek :)
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bret &yet++
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Schedule (+118) "Portland friday pre-party at Pints!" (view diff)
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aaronpk and it's on calagator! http://calagator.org/events/1250466553
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Loqi IndieWebCamp 2014 Pre-Party on Friday, Jun 27, 4:30pm at Pints Brewing
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bret woop!
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GWG Okay. Party at tantek's?
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aaronpk haha what
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gRegor` Unfortunately I can't make the (West) pre-party on Friday
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aaronparecki.com edited /indieauth-authorization-brainstorming () "(-762) replace with redirect to authorization endpoint page" (view diff)
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gRegor` wonders how many are coming to West with session ideas.
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gRegor` http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Sessions looks pretty vacant, but does it typically get filled in day-of?
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aaronpk yeah it's rare that people put stuff on the wiki before
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gRegor` Is breakfast supplied Saturday, or is that "bring your own"?
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aaronpk yeah we'll have some food
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aaronpk usually fruit and bagels
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gRegor` Cool
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gRegor` Getting excited! Blog post to come soon.
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aaronpk w00t
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Loqi :D
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GWG I think I will talk about it on my podcast
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gRegor` Awesome, GWG. I didn't realize you had a podcast. Link?
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gRegor` !tell tantek I was going to duplicate the daily schedules on http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Schedule for East, but I don't know how many rooms you have.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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gRegor` Is it bnvk that's heading up Berline?
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gRegor` sans second e
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: i think so
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gRegor` Actually, with 3 events, separate schedule pages might be a good idea, heh
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gRegor` or at least separated differently on this page
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KartikPrabhu didn't even know there was a schedule page until now :P
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gRegor` Haha
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gRegor` Increase your wiki-fu :)
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KartikPrabhu you're a wiki-fu!