#indiewebcamp 2014-06-24

2014-06-24 UTC
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GWG gRegor`: http://www.androidbuffet.com
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rascul http://domains.google.com/about/
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rascul google wants to be a registrar, problem is in a number of years if google decides to kill the service like they have so many others
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rascul although i guess they don't normally kill services that bring them income
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snarfed rascul: eh, i don't know if that's really a problem. the beautiful thing about domains is you can transfer them between registrars
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rascul hrm that is correct
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rascul maybe not such an issue
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rascul almost there! https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=rascul.io
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rknLA I'm reading through http://tantek.pbworks.com/w/page/21743973/Whistle#whyhumanreadability again and was wondering, what does DiSo stand for?
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rascul this? http://diso-project.org/
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rknLA i guess that's it
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rknLA oh, distributed social
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rknLA thanks!
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rknLA ohai jlsuttles
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jlsuttles ohai rknLA!
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rknLA how's things?
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@willnorris Google domains is one of the more exciting products for me personally Google has released in a while https://willnorris.com/2014/06/google-domains #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/481244318275887106)
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KevinMarks how is this different from google.com/a ?
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@MunawarBkl009 RT @t: Twitter @Safety vulnerability! If cell service @ATT, REMOVE phone# in profile @x @j compromised http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-05-21-twitter-j-compromised.png (ttk.me t4WB1) (twitter.com/_/status/481244469375684608)
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KevinMarks so no more sites?
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Loqi willnorris: tantek left you a message 3 weeks, 5 days ago: was IWC SF (2014-03-07) when you got https working on your site with proper ciphers etc. to get an A+ rating on ssllabs?
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willnorris @KevinMarks google wasn’t the registrar for google.com/a domains… I think it rotated between enom, godaddy, and maybe others
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rascul google wants to be a registrar now
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willnorris Google *is* a registrar now
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jlsuttles.me edited /2014/Guest_List (+468) "/* West */ Alphabetize Jason Champion and add Jessica Lynn Suttles" (view diff)
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rascul yeah is
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jlsuttles rknLA: Things are good! Hanging out with veganstraightedge atm
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/469255534307049472/481244469375684608 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-05-21-twitter-j-compromised.png (webmention)
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willnorris !tell tantek had A rating since 2013-11 (https://willnorris.com/2013/11/improving-my-https-support). I think the “+” was only added recently for additionally having HSTS support
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@alejandromajo73 How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb - http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open (twitter.com/_/status/481247056690819074)
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rknLA jlsuttles: oh nice. tell him i say hello
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jlsuttles.me edited /2014/Guest_List (+0) "/* West */ Update signed-up and spots remaining numbers" (view diff)
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jlsuttles rknLA Shane says hello :)
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Loqi [mention] http://gregorlove.com/2014/06/1183/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://gregorlove.com/2014/06/1183/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (webmention)
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gRegor` Does Loqi ignore rsvp webmentions to IWC pages?
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Loqi who, me?
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GWG gRegor`: I know there was some logic put in to avoid duplicate mentions
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gRegor` Only one link to /2014
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gRegor` Oh, might be because I have www. on indiewebcamp.com. My other two links don't
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GWG Ok
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GWG I have to go do a recording in #androidbuffet
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GWG I will be mentioning 2014.
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Loqi [mention] http://gregorlove.com/2014/06/1183/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014 (webmention)
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gRegor` There we go.
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gRegor` I fixed the link and re-sent the wm
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aaronpk willnorris: hey! are you going to make it to either PDX or NYC this weekend for indiewebcamp?
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willnorris sadly no :(
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GWG Ah, willnorris, the man who inspired a million facepiles
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aaronpk aw too bad, we'll miss you!
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willnorris thanks. I’ll definitely miss it too
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bret :(
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:github-security-history-example.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /File:github-security-history-example.png (+36) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /File:google-security-history-example.png "https://www.google.com/settings/security"
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aaronparecki.com edited /security (+469) "add examples of services that provide a security audit trail" (view diff)
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GWG I plugged Indiewebcamp
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@veganstraightedge !!! @jlsuttles just posted to a @homesteadingio instance using two #micropub apps (@aaronpk's Quill and @BarnabyWalters' Taproot)! #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/481271751762915328)
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@indiewebcamp RT @veganstraightedge: !!! @jlsuttles just posted to a @homesteadingio instance using two #micropub apps (@aaronpk's Quill and @BarnabyWalt… (twitter.com/_/status/481275409166630912)
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gRegor` So I'm pretty satisfied with my wm receiving / parsing. I flipped the switch and am processing received wm every 5 minutes now.
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KartikPrabhu gregor`++ for asyc wm processing
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KartikPrabhu aww you still get no ++ gregor`
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gRegor` We'll work on that at IWC. Haha
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KartikPrabhu :)
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aaronpk heh
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gRegor` I might be one of the few doing async processing, at least according to /webmention
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aaronpk maybe loqi will make himself a web page at IWC
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Loqi yeah!
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aaronpk gRegor`: I do async processing but it happens almost immediately
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gRegor` Own your own interjections, Loqi.
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gRegor` Every minute?
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aaronpk as soon as they come in
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gRegor` Oh, so not a cron
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aaronpk the web server responds with "202 accepted" then puts a job onto a queue, the worker picks it up immediately
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gRegor` Gotcha
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gRegor` What do you use for queueing?
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aaronpk beanstalkd
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gRegor` I should look into that.
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Loqi fo sho
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kylewm same here, using a redis queue
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aaronpk kylewm: using sidekiq? or manually using redis?
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kylewm manually I guess. I modified a flask snippet that mitsuhiko published
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aaronpk cool
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aaronpk yeah i like redis too
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kylewm trying to think of a hack for Sunday that isn't just reimplementing some feature if p3k ;)
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kylewm but maybe I will leave it open and plan to be inspired in Saturday
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aaronpk haha! go look at my todo list and beat me to something :)
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/p3k/issues?state=open
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kylewm lol
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kylewm not a bad idea!
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aaronpk i've been stalled on new p3k features lately cause of all the indieauth work
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KartikPrabhu is working on marginalia.js :D
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/06/23/2/micropub linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Updating_Objects (webmention)
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kylewm !m KartikPrabhu
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KartikPrabhu ehh? kylewm?
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: does your software have a name? like p3k or Known?
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KartikPrabhu not yet officially!
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aaronpk if not I'm just going to credit "Python"
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KartikPrabhu I'm calling it "Bundle" privately... it just isn't public/open source yet... another thing I need to do
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: Bundle = Python+custom Django running on my site :)
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aaronpk i'll call it "django" for now then
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KartikPrabhu hmmm ok :D
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aaronpk until it's googleable
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KartikPrabhu sure... I'd write it up on the wiki if that helps... there wouldn't be much to write about except list all the tools I'm using
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aaronpk sure! better than nothing :)
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KartikPrabhu wants to open-source it but gets sidetracked by all other cool things to do :P
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aaronpk imo there's not a lot of value in open sourcing the whole thing unless you plan on actually supporting the open source version, which involves things like writing docs, tutorials, etc
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KartikPrabhu yeah.. lot of work I realised
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: so put it on a page in the wiki and link from /projects ?
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aaronpk I am not ready to do that right now, which is why i've been doing it this way instead: http://indiewebcamp.com/p3k#Source_Code
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aaronpk yeah! and link from your user page
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KartikPrabhu ok will do that now
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kylewm I expected you to call it Parallel Transport
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aaronpk me too
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: that is my site name! Though I am keeping with the whole math theme: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundle_%28mathematics%29 :)
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kylewm KartikPrabhu++ for working on marginalia.js (is what I meant to say earlier)
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 35 karma
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KartikPrabhu w00t!
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Loqi giggles
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KartikPrabhu bear: I am somewhat plagiarising your Hakkan page if you don't mind :)
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bear copy away - that's why it's on a wiki and open source :)
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KartikPrabhu also has sub packages called Connection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connection_%28mathematics%29) and an in-progress file-storage-db called Pullback (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullback) and also Parallel Transport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_transport) ;)
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KartikPrabhu bear: thanks! always good to inform
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bear heck, with the way your going, I may just switch to your tools and join in
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kartikprabhu.com created /Bundle (+812) "started this thing!" (view diff)
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bear KartikPrabhu++ great job getting good python apps rolling with the latest features
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 36 karma
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KartikPrabhu bear: :D hopefully I get some bits open-sourced.
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gRegor` BundleConnectionPullbackParallelTransport
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gRegor` It rolls off the tongue
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gRegor` BCPPT
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bear BunConPuPaTrans
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KartikPrabhu BuConPuPaTra :P
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KartikPrabhu this is where tantek kicks us off to #indiechat ;)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /projects (+308) "/* experimental */ added Bundle" (view diff)
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bear LOL
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kartikprabhu.com edited /User:Kartikprabhu.com (+61) "/* Setup */ added Bundle" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu boom! aaronpk there you go! Bundle bundle everywhere... not a drop to "drink"
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gRegor` what is bundle
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Loqi Bundle is a set publishing tools for the Indieweb built using Python and Django http://indiewebcamp.com/Bundle
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aaronpk yaaayyy
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 37 karma
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KartikPrabhu that was the fastest bit of wiki editing I've ever done!
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aaronpk congrats
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KartikPrabhu needs to decide on a logo for Bundle
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aaronpk that's great cause now if people search for python it'll show up, and will link to the python tools!
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aaronpk request for y'all: can you send me screenshots of your posting interface?
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gRegor` For tomorrow, aaronpk?
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aaronpk yes for my talk tomorrow
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aaronpk i've got p3k and Taproot covered, but more would be great
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: mine is the horrible Django admin interface. nothing of note there... :(
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gRegor` I have a notes UI image posted a couple days ago, but I've altered it and was going to post a newer version. I can do that now though.
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: it's fine!
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gRegor` http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com/notes
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: that's actually more helpful since it illustrates my point better :)
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aaronpk gRegor`: thanks!
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gRegor` Just my notes posting UI. The article posting one from my CMS is ugly
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: aah ok will take screenshots of notes-posting
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aaronpk searches the wiki for "interface"
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gRegor` Basically I just re-ordered the fields from most likely to least likely to be filled in
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aaronpk found kylewm's http://indiewebcamp.com/File:kwm-posting-interface-2014-04-29.png
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gregorlove.com uploaded /File:gregorlove-add-note-2014-06-23.png "Work-in-progress for my add note interface."
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/notes (+183) "/* Posting interface */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/notes (+0) "/* Posting interface */" (view diff)
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gRegor` ^ Updated, aaronpk
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aaronpk thx!
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kartikprabhu.com uploaded /File:Django_site_admin_notes.jpg "Django notes posting on kartikprabhu.com"
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk^
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KartikPrabhu or here: http://indiewebcamp.com/File:Django_site_admin_notes.jpg
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gRegor` Notes are not published publicly on my site yet, but soon! Tomorrow, maybe. Before IWC, definitely.
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aaronpk woo thx
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aaronpk you're the best
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/notes (+422) "/* Posting interface */ why I re-ordered the fields" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/webmention (+52) "/* Todo */ another one bites the dust" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/notes (+55) "/* Posting interface */" (view diff)
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gRegor` Maybe a wiki category for interfaces?
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aaronpk for the images?
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aaronpk not a bad idea
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gRegor` Yeah. I was thinking pages that included images at first, but you can add them directly to images too
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gregorlove.com edited /File:gregorlove-add-note-2014-06-23.png (+26) "+ Category: Interfaces" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /File:gregorlove-add-note-2014-06-18.png (+26) "+ Category: Interfaces" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /File:Django_site_admin_notes.jpg (+26) "+ Category: Interfaces" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /File:kwm-posting-interface-2014-04-29.png (+24) "+ Category: Interfaces" (view diff)
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: should mf2util be finding your user picture? e.g., https://kylewm.com/reply/2014/06/23/1
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: probably not since my articles don't have avatars yet!
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KartikPrabhu could get them to style correctly...
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kylewm oh ok, phew
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KartikPrabhu :) mf2util is working fine on my site... not to really worry
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kartikprabhu.com uploaded /File:bundle-logo.png "Bundle logo"
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kartikprabhu.com edited /Bundle (+32) "add logo" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: Bundle also has a logo now :P ^
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aaronpk oo yay
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kylewm.com edited /GNU_social (+334) "added news about mf2 support" (view diff)
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kylewm any objections to merging /StatusNet with /GNU_social ?
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kylewm sweet logo KartikPrabhu. looks like if the Rebel Alliance joined indieweb
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KartikPrabhu haha! I was just making a B with dots and lines :P
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KartikPrabhu that is another theme I have going on in my site... circles and lines for logos
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kylewm.com edited /StatusNet (-1) "/* IndieWeb users */" (view diff)
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aaronpk probably don't merge them, if anything leave the StatusNet page there and migrate some of the content leaving a stub of sorts
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aaronpk sad that http://evan.status.net/ is returning a database connection error now
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KartikPrabhu just wrote JS to find all marginalia... JS makes me tired!
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aaronpk me too :(
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KartikPrabhu writing python seems so easy, probably even C will make me tired now
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KartikPrabhu from rest import sleep
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aaronpk npm install sleep
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: Is Bundle going to appear in your talk?
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aaronpk yes! i'm including screenshots of everything i can get my hands on
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KartikPrabhu sweet! :D
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rascul i used to write everything in c
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rascul now since i been using python for awhile c is hard
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KartikPrabhu I learnt C > C++ > JS > Python
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KartikPrabhu no counting some stupid MySQL hackery
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rascul i learned c++ > c > lots of things in i don't remember what order > python > more things in some other order
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rascul put some s-lang, expect, tcl, bash, php, java, perl in there somewhere
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rascul oh and js i guess
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KartikPrabhu oh yeah I did Java (urrgh) sometime
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rascul i learned it in some class, it made the teacher mad because my java codes were better than his
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rascul then i never used it
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rascul tcl was quite interesting
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aaronpk went GWBasic > QBasic > C > Visual Basic > Perl > PHP > C# > Java > Objective C > Ruby
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rascul oh yeah i had some qbasic in there too
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rascul and quickbasic i guess, there were some minor differences
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KevinMarks I went BASIC, 6502 assembler, Forth, Fortran, Pascal, HyperTalk, C, Python, Java, JS
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KartikPrabhu oo maybe I should count Logo! :D
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KevinMarks Oh, PHP too in there after Python
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KevinMarks which was a disappointing transition
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rascul i can typically look at code and figure it out regardless of the language
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KevinMarks and some Perl too
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KartikPrabhu rascul: yeah... meaning you know actual programming :)
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kylewm hmm, we do not represent functional programming very well
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rascul i don't know that i belong to any paradigms but if i did it would probably be functional
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rascul er i meant something else
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rascul i think
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KevinMarks Imperative?
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rascul yeah imperative
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KevinMarks Object stuff is such a digression
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KevinMarks I think I should try Go next
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rascul i'm waiting for rust to be stable
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rascul never had much motivation to learn go
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kylewm Go is interesting, I'd be curious to hear your take on it KevinMarks
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rascul i have this feeling that rust will solve all my problems i never knew i had, because mozilla
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rascul mozilla has a way of doing that for me
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KevinMarks I like the thinking it about about simultaneously reducing writing ceremony with compiler simplicity
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KevinMarks the way that interfaces work is very smart
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benwerd aaronpk / anyone, re: micropub - is it "syndicate" or "syndicate-to"? Wiki text and curl examples disagree
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aaronpk ooh let me check
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benwerd thanks :)
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kylewm benwerd asking about micropub... that's exciting in and of itself
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benwerd may or may not have an IndieAuth + Micropub plugin in testing
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KevinMarks yay
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Loqi yay!
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KevinMarks and I see you were chatting to heather too
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benwerd KevinMarks: yeah, she was very generous with her time this afternoon. Fantastic conversation. What with her stopping by tonight, and Jeff on Friday, I'm feeling very lucky.
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aaronpk benwerd: let's go with syndicate-to, I believe that's less ambiguous. also afaik know current implementations actually are sending that parameter :)
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benwerd KevinMarks: And I came away with a zillion exciting ideas. Some of which may turn up by this weekend if I can get it together.
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benwerd aaronpk: Thanks! I'll code that in. I didn't see it in OwnYourGram but I figured I'd be ready ;)
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KevinMarks If you want a test case for importing various generations of websites, heather would be it
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aaronpk benwerd: yep. ownyourgram sends the already-existing syndicated URL in the "syndication" parameter.
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benwerd aaronpk: yeah - I'm not quite ready to handle syndication fields in that direction, but I'm playing with it
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aaronpk i'm also considering how my site would indicate to a client like Quill which sites I can syndicate to
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benwerd nods, that'd be a good thing to have
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aaronpk my site currently supports. syndicating to twitter, facebook, github and indienews.
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aaronpk obviously this list should not be hard-coded into every micropub client.
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benwerd we're adding, eg, syndicate to Twitter Account A, Twitter Account B, Facebook Profile, Facebook Page, Some Other Facebook Page - so it's not even one per site
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aaronpk so it's probably part of the initial login attempt
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aaronpk oh good call, multiple accounts per domain
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aaronpk so that's more like "syndicate-to=twitter.com/aaronpk"
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benwerd aye
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benwerd although right now 'twitter.com' works just fine
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: I was also thinking similarly for "tags" for something like auto-suggesting tags in a micropub client
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benwerd although, heh, OwnYourGram has triggered a squid error of all things. Good, good ...
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benwerd takes a screwdriver to the server
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aaronpk hm yeah pre-filling content will be important when these clients are used for replying, not just posting new things
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aaronpk out for a bit... back later!
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benwerd Boom. http://werd.io/2014/this-is-a-test-note-from-barnabys-micropub-interface-at
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KartikPrabhu benwerd++ for micropub in known!
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Loqi benwerd has 25 karma
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benwerd yay, thanks!
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Loqi woot
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KartikPrabhu a small nit: the known link in the footer puts utm stuff in the URL...
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KevinMarks verynice
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KartikPrabhu oo benwerd: KevinMarks not sure if you have seen this work-in-progress already but would love your feedback: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia making indie-"annotations" using webmention and fragmention :)
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KevinMarks sounds good
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KevinMarks that was part of the motivation for fragmention in the first palce
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KartikPrabhu working on having "annotation"-like display with JS at the moment...
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benwerd KartikPrabhu - really really super-nice
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KartikPrabhu :D :D
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benwerd I love this so much. The combined work here has created a whole new layer over the web.
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KartikPrabhu nods. so cool!
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benwerd (Of course, my question is immediately: hmm, I wonder how we could adapt this to also work well for playable media ... but that's something for another night)
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KartikPrabhu true. seems there is some media-fragments type spec already
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benwerd Yep - could simply translate to that
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@benwerd Single-user @withknown sites can now use IndieAuth and Micropub https://github.com/idno/IndiePub #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/481323085706973185)
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@bear RT @benwerd: Single-user @withknown sites can now use IndieAuth and Micropub https://github.com/idno/IndiePub #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/481323403409113088)
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@kevinmarks RT @benwerd: Single-user @withknown sites can now use IndieAuth and Micropub https://github.com/idno/IndiePub #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/481326847301386240)
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KevinMarks media-fragments points by time iirc
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KevinMarks very nice KartikPrabhu
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KevinMarks the medium ui for marginal comments is worth looking at for this too
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KartikPrabhu thanks KevinMarks. fragmentions are neat as people can add marginalia already (like those on that article) this tricky bit is the displaying of those things... I am looking at Medium for clues :)
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KevinMarks well, if you are on a laptop/desktop you probably have a wide margin to put them in
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KevinMarks medium does subtle things on mobile screens too - showing that comments exist and scrolling sideways
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: yes. I have documented those http://indiewebcamp.com/annotation#Medium the Medium mobile UI seemed broken when I last looked at it
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KartikPrabhu it seems complicated for sure
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KevinMarks in chrome on android it works by showing a comment count icon by the para
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KevinMarks then when you click it it highlights the para and shwos the comment underneath
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KevinMarks it has a lot of depth to it
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KevinMarks I don't think they have tested mobile firefox so much
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KevinMarks safari and chrome work better
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KevinMarks though if I use the back button I lose the page
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KartikPrabhu hmm will try on Android. but i'd really like for it to work in some sort of "progreesively enhanced" way
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KartikPrabhu s/Android/Chrome
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: hmm will try on Chrome. but i'd really like for it to work in some sort of "progreesively enhanced" way
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KevinMarks yes, that would be nice. comments with replies are more complex (look at the fragmentions post on medium)
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: for instance Medium completely hides the margin notes if the JS does not work. Whereas with fragmentions I can at least out them at the bottom like normal comments
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KartikPrabhu out = put
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KevinMarks makes sense
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: thanks for all the pointers. I hope to have this working in some form by IWC this weekend
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aaronpk !tell benwerd omg congrats!! This is awesome news! I'm definitely going to mention it in my talk tomorrow!!!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@indiewebcamp RT @benwerd: Single-user @withknown sites can now use IndieAuth and Micropub https://github.com/idno/IndiePub #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/481342040416854016)
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KartikPrabhu interesting discussion occuring over comments https://the-pastry-box-project.net/marie-connelly/2014-june-24 cc: GWG
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petermolnar good morning
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petermolnar is anyone aware of a wordpress syndication to deviantart sta.sh api plugin? ( snap can only do journal entries, not actual submissions )
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@AAinslie RT @benwerd: Single-user @withknown sites can now use IndieAuth and Micropub https://github.com/idno/IndiePub #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/481356700654792704)
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: not that I know. deviantart doesn't seem high on having a posting API last I checked. Though Angelo+team seem to be doing cool stuff
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KartikPrabhu for instance their stash API 404s now
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KartikPrabhu http://www.deviantart.com/developers/stash
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pfefferle try this link https://www.deviantart.com/developers/http/v1
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petermolnar that was the link I was checking as well
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petermolnar ah
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petermolnar Now I get it
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petermolnar that api, the sta.sh api could be able to upload to sta.sh, but not actually submit to deviantart
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petermolnar that's meaningless that way :(
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Loqi *sniff*
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cweiske loqi is not sorry :(
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Loqi aww, cheer up
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brennannovak.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+293) "/* West */" (view diff)
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brennannovak.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+27) "/* Farther East */" (view diff)
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brennannovak.com edited /2014/Guest_List (-64) "/* West */" (view diff)
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GWG pfefferle: https://github.com/dshanske/mf2_bootstrap
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brennannovak.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+4) "/* West */" (view diff)
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@brennannovak @codinghorror it would be awesome to implement #IndieWeb support into @discourse as little communities are... http://bnvk.me/NiN (twitter.com/_/status/481411357279911938)
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pfefferle GWG nice! will definitely try it out!
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@JockelLohkamp June 28th&29th @agoracollective welcomes #indieweb to host @indiewebcamp register at http://indiewebcamp.com/2014 #P2P @OuiShareLabs #Gatesense (twitter.com/_/status/481424865745207296)
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@almereyda RT @JockelLohkamp: June 28th&29th @agoracollective welcomes #indieweb to host @indiewebcamp register at http://indiewebcamp.com/2014 #P2P @OuiSha… (twitter.com/_/status/481426740515176449)
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bnvk Might be interesting to tinker on POSSE to the http://discourse.org platform
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bnvk I'm gonna manually POSSE to it for now
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luxagraf What's the best way to test my probably-not-working webmentions code? I was thinkingI I'd just use a second site, but that seems, I dunno, overkill
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cweiske what do you want to test?
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luxagraf that I'm correctly parsing incoming webmentions
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cweiske try http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#checkmention
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cweiske and the two below
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cweiske.de edited /webmention (+90) "/* Should webmentions be sent for links to static assets */" (view diff)
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luxagraf cweiske: thanks.
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cweiske webmention.org is down. 504 gateway timeout
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GWG pfefferle: It is far from finished.
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: really looking forward to it, re your conversation about webmentions+fragmentions. Did you decide how you would append them to the DOM tree?
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pfefferle cweiske: hmmm seems that the domain is in the clientTransferProhibited mode… strange
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/480530061326442496/2175252433 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Guest_List#Farther_East (webmention)
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aaronparecki.com edited /micropub (-151) "rename parameter to syndicate-to instead of syndicate" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+360) "/* 2014 */ Vox Media acquires Editorially" (view diff)
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GWG pfefferle: That reminds me, if you want to see the theme in progress, you can visit.. http://tiny.n9n.us/
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pfefferle GWG thanks
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GWG pfefferle: I value your feedback
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pfefferle will try to check out the theme later today
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+418) "/* 2014 */ move Justin.tv" (view diff)
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Loqi corrected date per current FAQ page
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (-280) "/* Upcoming */ moved justin.tv" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+130) (view diff)
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kylewm aaronpk: interesting coincidence https://twitter.com/raganwald/status/481455071620636675
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Loqi [@raganwald] Will someone PLEASE build bar codes into 2FA so that I can hold my phone up to the laptop camera to sign in?
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kylewm for someone authenticating (i.e. to see private content) into my site with indieauth, does it make sense to use their authorization_endpoint first and fall back on indieauth.com if it doesn't exist?
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cweiske i'd say yes
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cweiske although aaronpk told me he wants to implement authorization_endpoint support in indieauth.com
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cweiske but then you're still relying on indieauth.com, which isn't indie
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cweiske so using authorization_endpoint first is the sensible approach
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kylewm thanks cweiske. i'm wanting to do add a micropub comment form, so i think i can authenticate them first and then later do the rest ofthe dance if they actually want to leave a comment
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grant-richmond.com edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (+293) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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@MicropubInfo Single-user @withknown sites can now use IndieAuth and Micropub https://t.co/8zS6fjYPUA: Single-user ... https://www.google.com/url?q=http://werd.io/2014/single-user-withknown-sites-can-now-use-indieauth-and-micropub-idnoindiepub&ct=ga&cd=CAIyAA&usg=AFQjCNFy-9TqZpdwryZtjgL9bmv5zJISrw&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/481467730197872641)
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Loqi benwerd: aaronpk left you a message 8 hours, 24 minutes ago: omg congrats!! This is awesome news! I'm definitely going to mention it in my talk tomorrow!!!
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benwerd aaronpk: whoa, thanks! And good luck with your talk! I'm sad I'm not there for it - super-interesting topic
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benwerd just signed up for the Yo API, realized what he was about to do, and thought better of it
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PMurphs app bubble's gonna burst soon, methinks
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gRegor` aaronpk, kylewm, or anyone else: Any plans to do a session on micropub at IWC west? I'd be interested. Still wrapping my mind around it.
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aaronpk Definitely
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aaronpk Possibly more than one
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aaronpk And would be happy to do a micropub workshop session on Sunday
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gregorlove.com edited /2014/Sessions (+89) "/* Want */ +micropub" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /2014/Sessions (+76) "/* Want */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /2014/Sessions (+4) "/* Micropub */" (view diff)
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bear I plan on attending any micropub sessions - IWC is the only time it seems I get to work on my own site :/
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@pdmteam Tantek Celik on "Why We Need the IndieWeb" at #PDF14 https://www.youtube.com/ @t (twitter.com/_/status/481476269217837056)
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gregorlove.com created /Micropub (+22) "micropub" (view diff)
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gRegor` Did micropub originate with IWC?
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benwerd aaronpk: on the subject of micropub, Quill and OwnYourGram are triggering squid's security features for me - I think maybe it's not sending content length or something? I'll investigate more and pull it out of the logs
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aaronpk Very odd... I would have assumed they're sending a regular request because it's just using curl
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benwerd It's very likely a squid configuration issue then
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benwerd I'll take a look. Sorry to worry you ;)
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aaronpk Let me know the error if you find it. Would at least be good to add a note to the wiki if it does end up being a squid configuration thing
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aaronpk gRegor`: yes it did. It's also one of the few things I named myself and am happy about the name. :-) Usually I'm terrible at naming things
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gRegor` Good job :)
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@osbridge SCHEDULE CHANGE: @caseorganic’s talk “Intro to the IndieWeb: How Far Can We Go? “ is rescheduled to 10-10:45 tomorrow http://opensourcebridge.org/sessions/1369 (twitter.com/_/status/481484958502879233)
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aaronpk lol at this tweet https://twitter.com/MicropubInfo/status/481467730197872641
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@MicropubInfo Single-user @withknown sites can now use IndieAuth and Micropub https://t.co/8zS6fjYPUA: Single-user ... http://werd.io/2014/single-user-withknown-sites-can-now-use-indieauth-and-micropub-idnoindiepub (twitter.com/_/status/481467730197872641)
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aaronpk @MicropubInfo: "Chronicling the rise of the micropub movement in the UK. Micropubs serve great beer in a convivial setting."
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gRegor` Haha
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Loqi hehe
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gRegor` hoho
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aaronpk kylewm: re: fallback to indieauth.com, yes sort of.
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aaronpk it's more like, use their authorization_endpoint first if it exists, otherwise look for other common providers (a Github profile, etc)
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aaronpk indieauth.com doesn't ever need to be in the picture
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bret aaronpk: are you at osbridge yet?
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb http://timehop.com/c/t:843128262:13645402:4760885:c5fd0 https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/481488169599111168/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/481488169599111168)
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aaronpk bret: no, trying to finish my talk first
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bret :p let me know if you need any help/an ear
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@aaronpk @raganwald Definitely! Check out @getclef and also this GPG-based app I sketched out: http://indiewebcamp.com/kirby-login-app (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/06/24/1/) (twitter.com/_/status/481488704284815360)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/06/24/1/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/kirby-login-app (webmention)
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kylewm snarfed: got a reply on twitter that Bridgy's not seeing at all https://twitter\.com/drone_police/status/481281391246594048 ... i think unrelated to posse-post-discovery
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snarfed kylewm: looking
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snarfed that backslash in twitter\.com seems suspicious. unrelated?
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kylewm oh sorry yeah i was trying to prevent loqi from seeing it
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kylewm but that just created more noise :)
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snarfed :P
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kylewm looking at the logs from before 2014-06-23 21:00:00 ... i don't see any mention of it
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kylewm maybe it has something to do with us not following each other?
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snarfed moving to /msg
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@caseorganic @osbridge SCHEDULE CHANGE: my talk “Intro to the IndieWeb: How Far Can We Go?" moved to 10-10:45 tomorrow! http://opensourcebridge.org/sessions/1369 (twitter.com/_/status/481490191513694209)
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@aranasaurus RT @caseorganic: @osbridge SCHEDULE CHANGE: my talk “Intro to the IndieWeb: How Far Can We Go?" moved to 10-10:45 tomorrow! http://t.co/Lqa… (twitter.com/_/status/481490663284830208)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/aaronpk/481488704284815360/501610065 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/kirby-login-app (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/aaronpk/481488704284815360/19090770 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/kirby-login-app (webmention)
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aaronpk benwerd: any chance you could send me a screenshot of your note posting interface? or add it to http://indiewebcamp.com/Known ?
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benwerd aaronpk: sure thing
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aaronpk yay thx
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benwerd aaronpk: I'll update the wiki too, but check your inbox
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benwerd I sent you a variety for you to pick from
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@hhg2288 RT @scottjenson: http://camlistore.org is a cool personal cloud storage and services. If you're into the #indieweb you need to check this … (twitter.com/_/status/481495787625795584)
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aaronpk benwerd: that's perfect. I'm actually going to use the browser extension as an example of a micropub client even if it isn't one
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aaronpk cause it should be
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aaronpk cause I don't want to write a browser extension myself :)D
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benwerd I'm definitely going to write a micropub client. Not sure it'll be a browser extension to begin with though
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benwerd (I want to make one that takes its cues from Medium's editor - something really elegant and full-page)
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aaronpk ah awesome
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benwerd But yeah, that's totally cool
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bret.io created /User:Bret.io/projects (+36416) "Stubbing my projects edits in userspace" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh man i'm so sad about my site's broken unicode support
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aaronpk i'm not really sure what changed, I could have sworn it was working properly not too long ago
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gRegor` aaronpk: That's odd. HTTP header and <meta> are both set to UTF8
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gRegor` Perhaps your mysql connection is not defaulting to UTF8?
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gRegor` And are the table columns' collations set to utf8?
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aaronpk it's not getting the contents from the database :)
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aaronpk it's just plain files. and when I open them in vim I even see the emoji in my terminal!
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gRegor` Oh, emoji...
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gRegor` Sure the browser supports them?
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk when i visit my local copy of my site that's served by my laptop everything looks fine. emoji and unicode
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gRegor` Emoji didn't work for me on Twitter until they started replacing with their own graphics.
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aaronpk so it's something about the server environment, I just don't know what else to try.
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gRegor` Huh. Odd
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aaronpk yeah I only see the emoji in safari
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tantek.com edited /2014 (+116) "/* sponsor */ East: adding New York Times for breakfasts presuming same plan as last time, and Mozilla will sponsor Saturday dinner (so says I), make headings shorter/more fragfriendly" (view diff)
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gRegor` Is it supposed to be showing the ampersand encoded versions in the source? &eth;
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aaronpk oh that's weird
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aaronpk it doesn't do that on pk.dev
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aaronpk is this some sort of php setting then?!
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aaronpk it must be something about the htmlentities function
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gRegor` Run through htmlspecialchars() or something?
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gRegor` There's an encoding parameter: http://us2.php.net/manual/en/function.htmlspecialchars.php
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gRegor` Yeah, same for htmlentities
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gRegor` Easy fix at least. :)
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KartikPrabhu bloody everything should default to utf-8
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gRegor` It does in PHP 5.4
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gRegor` 5.6+ uses default_charset
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gRegor` "PHP prior to 5.4.0, ISO-8859-1 is used" Ew
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aaronpk oh crap you mean I have to explicitly specify the encoding if i'm in 5.3?
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aaronpk on each function call?
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KartikPrabhu blergh
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gRegor` Looks like it, yes.
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aaronpk good lord
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gRegor` mb handling in PHP has been pretty abysmal until recently
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gRegor` Alternately, how difficult is it to upgrade to 5.4? I did it one-click recently. It's worth doing.
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aaronpk yaaaayyy
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gRegor` ;)
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aaronpk looks much better now
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aaronpk i hacked it in, will have to fix that for real later
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gRegor` woot!
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Loqi giggles
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gRegor` A box, a sun, scissors, and a box!
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gRegor` (on Chrome)
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aaronpk heh
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gRegor` 2/4 ain't bad
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gRegor` utf8++
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Loqi utf8 has 1 karma
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post-by-email uploaded /File:20140624-183850.txt "Uploaded via email by Mr.Wang <cnbjfx5@sohu.com>"
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aaronpk hah you gotta be kidding
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aaronparecki.com created /MediaWiki:Filedelete-reason-dropdown (+72) "Created page with "*Common delete reasons ** Copyright violation ** Duplicated file ** Spam"" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:20140624-183850.txt "Spam"
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snarfed public service announcement for anyone using twitter's search API: it's *best effort*. no guarantees that it returns all matching tweets. (background: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/202)
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snarfed i'd forgotten that, and so i spent an hour debugging just to rediscover it. whee!
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snarfed search is hard, let's go shopping
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@ShaneHudson RT @ChrisAldrich: #indieweb http://timehop.com/c/t:843128262:13645402:4760885:c5fd0 https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/481488169599111168/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/481507419760381952)
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gRegor` Haha
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gRegor` If you want to meme that: http://www.padua360.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/2.jpg
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aaronpk http://meme.loqi.me/4WkUMx6A.jpg
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gRegor` Whoa, upload to wiki by email?
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gRegor` Is this a vulnerability in Mediawiki?
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aaronpk it's a plugin I wrote actually
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aaronpk apparently I have to whitelist it now
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aaronpk it makes it way easier to add photos from your phone
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gRegor` Ah, nice
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Loqi tantek: gRegor` left you a message on 6/23 at 4:48pm: I was going to duplicate the daily schedules on http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Schedule for East, but I don't know how many rooms you have.
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Loqi tantek: willnorris left you a message on 6/23 at 6:26pm: had A rating since 2013-11 (https://willnorris.com/2013/11/improving-my-https-support). I think the “+” was only added recently for additionally having HSTS support
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tantek !tell gRegor` we have two medium sized rooms at NYT - which we can open up into one big room.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegor` nudges Loqi
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Loqi gRegor`: tantek left you a message 4 minutes ago: we have two medium sized rooms at NYT - which we can open up into one big room.
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Loqi woot!
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tantek !tell caseorganic - excited for you talk tomorrow! PDF2014 just posted my 13 minute "Why We Need The IndieWeb" high speed lightning talk: http://youtu.be/HNmKO7Gr4TE - feel free to re-use any/all material.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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tantek !tell caseorganic here are my slides from m PDF2014 talk so you can copy/paste any new material that you find useful: http://tantek.com/presentations/2014/06/indieweb/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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KartikPrabhu tantek: does IWC - East have some set schedule?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: yes - similar to West
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KartikPrabhu seems we don't have a pre-party place yet :P
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tantek though I think aaronpk and I are working on aligning time slots / meals so that we can maximize joint sessions
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KartikPrabhu yeah that would be cool
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Loqi caseorganic: tantek left you a message 6 minutes ago: - excited for you talk tomorrow! PDF2014 just posted my 13 minute "Why We Need The IndieWeb" high speed lightning talk: http://youtu.be/HNmKO7Gr4TE - feel free to re-use any/all material.
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Loqi caseorganic: tantek left you a message 5 minutes ago: here are my slides from m PDF2014 talk so you can copy/paste any new material that you find useful: http://tantek.com/presentations/2014/06/indieweb/
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caseorganic !tell tantek: thanks for the slides! good timing as i'm making my slides for OSBridge and they're going to be Labyrinth-themed
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek KartikPrabhu: re: pre-party, unfortunately I'm not getting into JFK until ~23:00 Friday night, so if we're going to do a pre-party you should either organize one without me (ping Jeremy when he's on here) or we can do one at midnight!
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Loqi tantek: caseorganic left you a message 46 seconds ago: thanks for the slides! good timing as i'm making my slides for OSBridge and they're going to be Labyrinth-themed
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tantek caseorganic - awesome!!! can't wait to see it!!!
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caseorganic tantek: first ever themed talk. haven't ever done one before
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caseorganic 'how to get out of the silo labyrinth"
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tantek caseorganic, I've also been adding to http://indiewebcamp.com/timeline as well to provide more background material
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caseorganic tantek: i'm going to dress as the goblin king, of course. people are expecting that for some reason
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gRegor` Labyrinth-the-movie themed?
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tantek caseorganic: that is genius
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caseorganic gRegor`: yes, labyrinth the movie
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caseorganic :)
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gRegor` Sweeeet
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KartikPrabhu ha! nice...
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tantek hopes aaronpk setsup a talky.io feed of caseorganic's talk!
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tantek KartikPrabhu: what's your preference for pre-party?
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caseorganic tantek: cool idea!
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I am fine with either! Midnight doesn't scare me :P
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tantek caseorganic: if you need any more background research e.g. on /timeline or /history on the wiki, let me know and I can dig things up.
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caseorganic tantek: thanks!
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tantek citations and such
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tantek I've been trying to add to both incrementally as I do my own research for my talks.
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KartikPrabhu also jeremyzilar hasn't been here on irc in a longimte
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tantek !tell jeremyzilar do you have any preference/plans for IndieWebCamp East pre-party this Friday night?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /2014 (+62) "/* East Sponsors */ pre-party being determined" (view diff)
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tantek brianloveswords: hey - you're back! how does your weekend look? excited for IndieWebCamp 2014 at the NYTimes?
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caseorganic tantek: next time you give an indieweb talk you should dress up as neo
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brianloveswords tantek: aw man, this weekend isn't great – Jess Klein (designer for the Foundation, you might have met her?) is getting married, I'm going to her wedding!
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tantek caseorganic: I think I'm slowly headed in that direction (if you watch the YouTube you'll see)
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caseorganic tantek: yes! especially the last line "i can only show you the door"
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tantek caseorganic: yeah! I'm glad you liked that :)
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tantek brianloveswords: bummer! can you make it for either part of Saturday or Sunday?
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tantek (and don't think I've met her)
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brianloveswords tantek: I'll see if I can make it for part of Sunday
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tantek brianloveswords: that would be great! we'll be doing hack demos and such in the afternoon - and hopefully like last year we can run a little late so we can sync-up with IndieWebCamp West in Portland as they do their demos.
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tantek brianloveswords: also, while you're hear, do you have any insight into the Mozilla / Open News / WaPo / NYT "web comments" initiative thing? is it just an announcement? is there running code? UI sketches? anything? anybody there know about indieweb comments? etc.
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tantek s/hear/here
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Loqi tantek meant to say: brianloveswords: also, while you're here, do you have any insight into the Mozilla / Open News / WaPo / NYT "web comments" initiative thing? is it just an announcement? is there running code? UI sketches? anything? anybody there know about indieweb comments? etc.
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@gRegorLove Great talk by @t: Why We Need the IndieWeb. "User experience matters. People matter. Yes, design matters." (twitter.com/_/status/481535062756708355)
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brianloveswords tantek: just an announcement, there was some user experience research, but no UI sketches or anything.
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tantek brianloveswords: sigh. that worries me. web comments are a *very hard problem* and announcement-ware is not a great start to something. :/
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I was wondering if some of those folks would be at IWC
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KartikPrabhu beacuse they have been talking about identity and so on too
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tantek alright, well, time to start asking around and seeing who is working on this in what open forum (IRC/wiki) and seeing if we can get any of those folks to show up to IndieWebCamp where we *do* have UX designs *and* running code
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brianloveswords tantek: there is "running code" in the sense that the NYT has been working on stuff behind the scenes, but I that's some prototype stuff and I haven't seen it.
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tantek yes - exactly KartikPrabhu
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brianloveswords At least, that's what I understand and I could be wrong.
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tantek brianloveswords: do you know who at the NYTimes? I mean, you do realize they are also HOSTING IndieWebCamp 2014 this weekend.
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brianloveswords tantek: I have no idea *who* at the NYT, the last time I was involved in the discussions Aron Pilhofer was the point-person and he's left to go to the Guardian.
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tantek would be great if you could ping the folks at NYT working on stuff behind the scenes to sign-up for IndieWebCamp - feel free to cc me and Jeremy Zilar
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tantek huh ok
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tantek behindthescenes--
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Loqi behindthescenes has -1 karma
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KartikPrabhu loqi likes behindthescenes
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Loqi who, me?
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tantek no just slow this morning.
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brianloveswords haha, yeah. Again, that's just my understanding, and I could be wrong, tantek !
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tantek gives Loqi an espresso.
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KartikPrabhu loqi drink some coffee
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Loqi hearts the espresso.
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tantek Let's see if that helps
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KartikPrabhu tantek: iirc I left jeremyzilar a message on irc about this. I don't think he's been around here to get it though
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donpdonp once i've selected a provider, indieauth.com spins... endlessly
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tantek aaronpk ^^^
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KartikPrabhu dondonp: what are you signing into? also which provider?
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KartikPrabhu sorry donpdonp^
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donpdonp KartikPrabhu: indiewebcamp.com, tried twitter then github
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@Xangis Wonderful #IndieWebCamp website death database mentioned by @pjf at #osbridge: http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/481539184578932737)
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donpdonp heh. im in that pjf talk.
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KartikPrabhu twitter has been known to have issues, github usually works though.
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donpdonp yup, github has been reliabl
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donpdonp someone at the conf (opensourcebridge) said twitter was working now
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donpdonp so i wanted to give it a try
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KartikPrabhu oh yeah according to http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth twitter should be working too
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tantek donpdonp - hey are you coming this weekend? indiewebcamp.com/2014 ?
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tantek and ping pjf to come too (he went last year)
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donpdonp tantek: yes i'll be there
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tantek (or is the indieauth question about signing into the wiki in order to RSVP? (crosses fingers) :) )
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tantek yay!
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donpdonp ah yes :)
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Loqi yay!
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tantek good Loqi
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KartikPrabhu Loqi is awake!
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gRegor` anecdotally, sometimes I've found updating the URL in my twitter profile will make indieauth work when it didn't before. Something with the t.co URL shorteners. This was months and months ago, though.
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KartikPrabhu donpdonp: http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth#Why_is_Twitter_not_working might be helpful
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aaronpk I can take a look at it donpdonp but not til after my talk ;-)
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donpdonp can anyone else auth to indiewebcamp with any provider or is it just me
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tantek aaronpk when is your talk? and can you get someone to talky.io it?
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donpdonp aaronpk: heehee. okay. i have to leave the conf for a meeting right during your talk :(
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tantek has been authing into indieauth via github and 2FA!
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aaronpk At 2:30
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aaronpk I left my camera at the office, probably too late to try to run and grab it
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kylewm has anyone talked IWC West with nrrrdcore? ref: https://twitter.com/nrrrdcore/status/481538857767161856
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@nrrrdcore ok bye internet going to Portland, maybe never coming back (twitter.com/_/status/481538857767161856)
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KartikPrabhu donpdonp: it is working for me with github
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donpdonp KartikPrabhu: ok thx
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tantek oh man, I need to go get/make a quick lunch so I can be back in time for aaronpk's talk!
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tantek is there an IRC backchannel (besides this one) or etherpad for aaronpk's talk?
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tantek and who else here is attending? can you setup a camera or laptop with talky.io? maybe even use Quicktime to record it?
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aaronpk I believe all the talks are being recorded now
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tantek yay!
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Loqi woot
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aaronpk Definitely audio, I think video too which is cool
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tantek ok then just live streaming for those of us that love hearing this stuff in real time :)
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tantek !tell KevinMarks did you make it up to Portland for #osbridge? Hoping to see you live-tweet some key talks ;)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk Sweet getting coworkers to bring the logitech camera
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donpdonp there is some chat on #osbridge
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tantek aaronpk awesome!
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tantek rushes out to get lunch...
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aaronpk made an etherpad https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indieauth
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aaronpk http://talky.io/IndieAuth
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aaronpk No caps oops
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bret nice! aaronpk++
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aaronpk http://talky.io/indieauth
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aaronpk Mute your audio and video if you can to save everyone's bandwidth
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bret ill take some notes but feel free to help me
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KartikPrabhu how do you use talky with out camera. it does not allow me to do it
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: Cover the camera and click "Pause"
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KartikPrabhu hmm ok
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gRegor` It freezes your video image that way
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gRegor` it is odd there's no audio-only option
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KartikPrabhu hmm that worked i guess
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gRegor` Kinda hard to hear
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gRegor` giving up on it
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KartikPrabhu hey that was me :P
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benwerd avoids the temptation to "yo" aaronpk
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tantek applauds benwerd
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tantek 's restraint
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benwerd ;)
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KartikPrabhu clap clap clap
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tantek did someone ask about OpenID?
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@joshroppo @aaronpk's https://indieauth.com/ looks like a really interesting tool to manage personal content on the web! #OSBridge #osb14 (twitter.com/_/status/481560514489618432)
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tantek well done aaronpk!
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tantek re: SSL "complicated" issue raised here: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indieauth
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GWG tantek: What is this about a pre-party?
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tantek GWG - see /2014#East_Sponsors
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tantek so back to re: SSL "complicated", as in requiring it for indieauth
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tantek either you require https for your secure protocol on top of that, or you end up reinventing something that is likely more complicated and less secure (as what happened in OAuth1)
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tantek or you leave users more vulnerable to semi-trivial attacks (OpenID)
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KartikPrabhu yeah that was a strange question
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tantek KartikPrabhu: not strange - it's been asked for the past 10 years on this subject
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tantek and people at first tried the approach of layering something else on top of http (i.e. see OpenID and OAuth)
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tantek but those turned out to make THOSE protocols a lot more complicated
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KartikPrabhu yeah... that's what i gathered
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tantek bigger libraries etc.
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tantek so even *more* security surface / vulnerability
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tantek that needs to be an FAQ for IndieAuth
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GWG tantek: What am I looking for?
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tantek pre-party :P
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GWG It is blank, isn't it?
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KartikPrabhu GWG: yes. that was the question. is there a pre-party in NYC. Tantek is not getting there until late on Friday night
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GWG KartikPrabhu: Who else is there?
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tantek GWG no it's not blank
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KartikPrabhu hmm don't know the details
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tantek indiewebcamp.com/2014#being+determined
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tantek oops
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GWG It says being determined.
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GWG Who else isn't coming in late?
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tantek right - that's the current status
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tantek also http://indiewebcamp.com/2014##got+a+preference
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tantek is handtyping fragmentions
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tantek you know it's a useful thing when you resort to doing it by hand
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KartikPrabhu does that a lot too :)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: GWG: it seems the existence of a preparty depends on whether there are people around. I'm reaching NYC Friday afternoon
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@benwerd RT @joshroppo: @aaronpk's https://indieauth.com/ looks like a really interesting tool to manage personal content on the web! #OSBridge #os… (twitter.com/_/status/481563663627595776)
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tantek.com edited /2014 (+226) "Get Your Flights and Hotel to its own section at bottom, add NY Hotels, Berlin section" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: perhaps we need a wiki or etherpad for what time people are arriving / departing to coordinate this
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tantek rather than the home page of the event
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I live there
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GWG So I'll be around
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KartikPrabhu tantek: or on the guest list
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tantek would you two like to coordinate at NYC pre-party? perhaps just drinks at a bar somewhere in Manhattan maybe not too far from the venue? (assuming folks are staying near the venue)
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tantek GWG KartikPrabhu ^^^
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tantek s/at NYC/a NYC
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KartikPrabhu i don't know any places in NYC... but I could meet up and help out
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tantek GWG lives there so he can help suggest places
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GWG I live in Queens. I know some good restaurants in Manhattan, but not really bars.
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GWG Mostly because I'm not really a drinker.
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tantek I'm not much of a drinker either - could do a coffee place instead?
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aaronpk hope the talky worked well!
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tantek.com edited /2014 (+28) "/* East Sponsors */ just confirmed with Jeremy re: coffee & breakfast" (view diff)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /2014 (+58) "/* Get Your Flights and Hotel */" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - was a little hard to hear, but since I knew the topic mostly I could interpret what I heard
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: the sound was choppy but i could understand from the slide-topics
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tantek sweet I think we have everything but pre-party covered for IWC East
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aaronpk hm yeah, I was hoping the amplification would have made the sound more clear for the mic
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GWG Jeremy works in midtown, he might have a good idea
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aaronpk i was wearing a mic so the video will have good audio
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aaronpk slides are up! http://aaronparecki.com/presentations/2014/06/24/1/files/slides/
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GWG I'll see what I can track down
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aaronparecki.com edited /Events (+598) "add indiewebcamp breakfast" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+74) "/* Upcoming */ Berlin!" (view diff)
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jden is there a micropub implementation in node?
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aaronpk bret's static site generator thing is in node
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aaronpk https://github.com/bcomnes/gitpub
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aaronparecki.com created /events/2014-06-26-indiewebcamp-breakfast (+1424) "indieweb breakfast in pdx!" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-06-26-indiewebcamp-breakfast (+72) "add calagator url" (view diff)
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aaronpk man making events is so much data entry
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aaronpk i should make an h-event micropub client next
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tantek aaronpk - hence needs better UI
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tantek heh
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tantek :)
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Loqi agreed.
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aaronpk google calendar is reasonable, I think I like that the best. facebook's is close, at least it progressively loads interface elements
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tantek I've heard good things about gcal's UI - but I don't use it mysefl. I just annoyed with their supercrappy gmail integration.
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tantek http://tantek.com/2013/351/t1/no-gmail-event-google-calendar-sucks-identity
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hawke.org sandro edited /2014/Guest_List (+490) "/* East */ added myself" (view diff)
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bret jden: my micropub endpoint is a friggin mess
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bret i want to clean it up this weekend
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jden cool
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bret would be nice to separate out make git one of many targets
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bret and make*
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Loqi [mention] http://upon2020.com/banter/2014/06/24/going-to-indiewebcamp-this-weekend-its-going-to/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014 (pingback)
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@Johannes_Ernst Going to IndieWebCamp this weekend. It's going to be fun!! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014 http://upon2020.com/banter/?p=313 (twitter.com/_/status/481575097740693504)
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@indieboxproject RT @Johannes_Ernst: Going to IndieWebCamp this weekend. It's going to be fun!! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014 http://upon2020.com/banter/?p=313 (twitter.com/_/status/481575214413660160)
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tantek Interesting that Hawke.org put a w3.org URL as his URL in his RSVP to IWC 2014 East!
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tantek in fact, his RSVP doesn't mention his own URL (that he used to sign-in!) at all!
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aaronpk !tell j12t just got your email announcement to the indiebox list! That would make a great post on your blog! I'd love to link to it!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk http://hawke.org/sandro/ "I haven't felt like maintaining a personal website since the '90s. Here are some other sites/profiles/pages of mine..."
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tantek I hope his feelings have changed and that's why he's coming to IndieWebCamp!
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aaronpk seems likely!
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tantek and this: http://decentralyze.com/about/
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aaronpk man it is *so weird* that I am automatically logged in to people's blogs by wordpress.com
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aaronpk I see the wordpress.com header when I visit his site
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tantek wait what?
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tantek Tumblr does that too
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bret when I log into the mocroformat blog i see the wordpress header
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aaronpk across domains?
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tantek yup
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tantek you see the follow button typically
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aaronpk here's what I see https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5593/14499590234_5069bf9a82_b.jpg
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tantek well this should be interesting, Sandro's latest talk this past March is on " Building Social Applications with the Linked Data Platform" - posted online, in wait for it
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aaronpk there's a "follow" button which makes sense
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tantek .pdf and .pptx! http://www.w3.org/2014/Talks/0311-sandro/
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aaronpk but also there's a "new post" button which makes less sense since it's not my site and I shouldn't be able to post to it
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tantek aaronpk - in Tumblr everything you do is a new post on your Tumblr
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tantek whether you reply, reblog, or like
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aaronpk tumblr is very indieweb-like. what do you suppose it would take to get them to adopt webmention or microformats?
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tantek tumblr *UI* is very indie-profile-like
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tantek I'd ask the opposite question first
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tantek what would it take to get *us* to adopt a *UI* as nice as theirs?
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aaronpk true :)
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aaronpk let's do it
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tantek single click seamless comment, reblog, like
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tantek *that* would get them to take us more seriously
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tantek (and everyone else to as well)
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tantek this is something that Jay Wong pointed out at the very first HWC in SF - we need our indie UX to be as good as Tumblr
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aaronpk agreed
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tantek a nice UX is what will sell people on our protocols and formats
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tantek which is why I keep showing examples of aaronpk, benwerd, caseorganic, etc. permalinks as content / UX that is possible using webmention + microformats2
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aaronpk in order to do one-click likes and things, i'm pretty sure we're going to need browser extensions or browser support
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tantek.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+0) "/* East */ Welcome Sandro! (updating counts)" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: what about that trust-less micropub idea?
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tantek aaronpk - hence why I focused on /webactions so early
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aaronpk yeah that gets pretty close
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KartikPrabhu will propose a session on that too if that is of interest
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aaronpk definitely! i'm hoping to finish getting the rest of this down on paper so people can understand it
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aaronpk then build on it with more demos
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KartikPrabhu 100 people again!
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tantek aaronpk, barnabwalters did some work on understanding/standardizing /webaction endpoints - can any of that help with using micropub for this?
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aaronpk possibly. i'll have to review it.
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bret aaronpk++ great job on the talk!
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Loqi aaronpk has 503 karma
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aaronpk tantek: barnaby and I were brainstorming on it here sort of http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Trust-Less_Micropub
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aaronpk side note: I do like that we're using "Aaron" and "Barnaby" for these auth examples instead of "Alice" and "Bob" :-D
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aaronpk bret: thanks! and thanks for the super notes
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tantek odd that barnaby didn't connect that with his previous work! http://indiewebcamp.com/Web_Action_URL_APIs
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tantek aaronpk - hey - you're in that list too!!
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bret one sugestion: mix in a demo of the user facing log in process, I think that would illistrate the different peices before going in and explaining them
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bret aaronpk: ^^
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aaronpk bret: yeah, I think I needed a more complete user flow example before diving in
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aaronpk I kind of showed it with screenshots, but it's different seeing it
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bret i think that would give a good flow/structure for audience members to attach what they are hearing too
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aaronpk i was thinking about including screenshots on the side along with the POST examples
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tantek.com created /User:Hawke.org_sandro (+66) "stub with an h-card" (view diff)
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bret maybe a video/screen recording would work/be predicable
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aaronpk i might have to switch my slides to keynote/ppt in order to do that, I sometimes feel very limited with my layout options in html slides
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: when will the video for the talk be released?
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: not sure. I think they're pretty good about it tho.
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KartikPrabhu cool
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tantek.com created /User:Fcns.eu (+59) "stub with an h-card" (view diff)
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donpdonp why does indieauth hate me? it used to work
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tantek.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+118) "/* East */ link up names to User: profile pages" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu maybe aaronpk can look at it now that he's done with the talk ^^^^
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aaronpk ohai donpdonp
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aaronpk hm it's getting timeout errors
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aaronpk hm so am i... is your site up?
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aaronpk http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/donpark.org
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donpdonp aaronpk: yes its up i get the list of providers no problem
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aaronpk donpdonp: that's cached
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donpdonp ah crap
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donpdonp ive been having dns issues with donpark.org today
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aaronpk ah
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Loqi lolz
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donpdonp i didnt connect two and two until just now. heh.
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donpdonp thx
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KartikPrabhu donpark.org not loading for me too
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aaronpk np! it should be catching that error better
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aaronpk noted https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/issues/57
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aaronpk so many edge cases
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tantek a-ha, looks like with Andrei Sambra and Sandro Hawke (love these names!) we have the CrossCloud developers represented. Will be looking forward to asking them how to see CrossCloud running on their own domains. ;)
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aaronpk what is crosscloud?
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tantek they linked to it directly from their profiles, presumably going gently into a new space and not just immediately creating an article for it
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tantek s/profiles/RSVPs
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Loqi tantek meant to say: they linked to it directly from their RSVPs, presumably going gently into a new space and not just immediately creating an article for it
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tantek "CrossCloud (redecentralizing the Web) " - http://crosscloud.org/
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aaronpk oh they got a knight grant for it
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KartikPrabhu was just about to paste that
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tantek "planning to release demo software and toolkits in the fall of 2013" - um...
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tantek someone please smack me (in IRC) if I ever lay any claims to when anything about Falcon will be shipping / available beyond what is live on my site / github
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aaronpk heh
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kylewm wow, Tim Berners-Lee
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KartikPrabhu tests smacking tantek
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kylewm tantek: particularly if those claims are in the past :P
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tantek indeed - I had a good chat with TimBL during the W3C AC meetings in Boston a couple of weeks ago
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KartikPrabhu did it work? :P
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tantek unprompted at lunch time he asked me how the indieweb was doing
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kylewm (sorry the surprise hasn't worn off of knowing people who are or know famous people)
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KartikPrabhu good to know he's interested
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tantek I was like whoa, cool. and then proceed to just give the dry update of what folks here have gotten working :)
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tantek kylewm - in that case: http://instagram.com/p/pEqLKhA9Ub/ ;)
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kylewm nice! :)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: who's the 3rd dude?
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tantek we walked from the meeting venue to coffee and chatted indieweb formats & protocols on the walks there and back
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KartikPrabhu is soo n00b
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tantek KartikPrabhu: cwilso <- google it
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tantek he was particularly impressed with webmention, and then we got into discussing formats for publishing stuff on web pages (for stuff like comments), and I pointed out the longevity of HTML over any XML or JSON or any other formats
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donpdonp ok dns fixed. indieauth is happy now. yeah i was assuming indieauth could reach donpark.org when i saw the list of providers
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tantek (which all seem to come and go - the machine-centric formats that is)
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tantek I think that argument struck a nerve with him
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tantek he asked about microformats vs. schema vs. rdfa vs. microformats2 - which have had their own evolution over time inside the HTML
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aaronpk donpdonp: yay!
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Loqi yay!
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aaronpk it used to go out and look at your site first, but I made it cache the list to drastically speed up the login process
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tantek true I said, and then pointed out that the changes there have in general been fewer, slower, and more compatible than say, all the random XML vocabularies or all the custom JSON objects people make up in various APIs to represent information.
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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KartikPrabhu gets coffee while thinking about formats
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tantek pitching the longevity of HTML to the man who invented HTML felt pretty weird I have to admit.
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tantek but I felt like my arguments were sound so my feelings were irrelevant.
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tantek s/felt like/knew
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Loqi tantek meant to say: but I knew my arguments were sound so my feelings were irrelevant.
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tantek :)
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aaronpk heh that's pretty funny
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Schedule (+115) "/* Friday, June 27, 2014 - IndieWebCamp Hosted Pre-Party */ add indie event url" (view diff)
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aaronpk ok! indieweb events for pdx are posted on my site now! http://aaronparecki.com/events
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kylewm tantek: thanks for relating that story, what a cool conversation
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tantek kylewm - my point was that data in the HTML survives longer than anywhere else, than in XML (e.g. RDF/XML) or JSON (e.g. JSON-LD / linked-data), and thus data in HTML should be preferred for publishing, consuming, and building upon.
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kylewm tantek: so is the explanation that HTML is more durable because you can look at it in a browser and see right away if anything is broken or missing
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bret "confessions from a DBA: it upset my tummy so much I couldnt eat veggies for a year"
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bret XD
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Loqi KevinMarks: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 59 minutes ago: did you make it up to Portland for #osbridge? Hoping to see you live-tweet some key talks ;)
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bret (quote from the talk im in)