#indiewebcamp 2014-06-26

2014-06-26 UTC
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GWG KevinMarks: You criticized G+ at Google I/O? Don't spoil it for me...I want to watch
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snarfed criticizing G+ isn't much of a spectator sport any more
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KevinMarks Was that OK? I fluffed the ending a bit
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snarfed basically kicking it while it's down :P
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snarfed (not talking about you KevinMarks, just in general)
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KevinMarks Heh. I'll ask the fly lady about post Mortems
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KevinMarks Also schema
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GWG KevinMarks: Coming from you, because of your previous involvement pre G+, that is more significat
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gRegor` h-cite / in-reply-to question:
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gRegor` I want the text to be: "in reply to a post on twitter.com" where [post on twitter.com] is a link to the tweet...
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Loqi gives gRegor` the text to be
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gRegor` since the text in the link is "post on twitter.com" and not the citation, it's incorrect to put h-cite on the link, right?
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gRegor` Thanks, Loqi
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Loqi is done
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gRegor` So I'm not sure where the h-cite should go
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gRegor` In reply to a <a href="#" class="u-in-reply-to h-cite">post on twitter.com</a> is the HTML in question.
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kylewm no h-cite needed there gregor
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kylewm gRegor`^
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gRegor` Oh. I was basing it on tantke and KartikPrabhu's notes.
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gRegor` s/tantke/tantek/
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Loqi gRegor` meant to say: Oh. I was basing it on tantek and KartikPrabhu's notes.
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kylewm goes to look at tantek.com
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gRegor` I looked at yours, too, kylewm. I'm thinking forward a bit to when I'll have a reply-context not just the URL
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: mine is in anticipation of reply-context as well
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gRegor` Might have found a solution, though it's mf2-verbose, heh.
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KartikPrabhu then it would become "p-in-reply-to h-cite"
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kylewm I'm not sure what the purpose of "h-cite u-in-reply-to" is ... it makes "in-reply-to" = an obj with several repeated values
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kylewm https://kylewm.com/api/mf2?url=http://tantek.com/2014/163/t2/etherpad-site-destroyed-by-google-opensourced
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: nice talk!
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kylewm (that's not to say it's wrong, obvi)
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KevinMarks Thank you.
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: not usefule with "u-reply-to" but definitely for "p-in-reply-to" where the "h-cite" can have "e-content" and all that
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gRegor` <p class="p-in-reply-to h-cite"> In reply to a <a href="#" class="u-name u-url">post on twitter.com</a>: </p>
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gRegor` ^That gives me the same mf2 output as KartikPrabhu's
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: no need for conformity with mine. I might be doing things incorrectly as well :)
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gRegor` Yours resembles tantek from what I can tell
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KartikPrabhu might have copied tantek :)
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gRegor` Mostly I want to make sure "name" doesn't come through with "post on twitter.com" because that's definitely an incorrect h-cite.
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gRegor` h-cite with name+url = the cited URL seems more correct.
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gRegor` has no idea if u-name is even legit by mf2 parsing rules, though
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kylewm u-name if you want name=the URL
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kylewm p-name if you want it "post on twitter.com"
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gRegor` Ok, I think I'm on the right track then.
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: what kylewm said. "u-" says parse me like a URL while "p-" says parse me like plain-text
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gRegor` I'll ask tantek about his h-cites later
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kylewm gRegor`: so actually <a href="u-in-reply-to h-cite" href="URL">a post on twitter.com</a> would give you exactly the same thing
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kylewm as <span class="p-in-reply-to h-cite"><a class="u-url p-name" href="URL">a post on twitter.com</a></span>
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kylewm that's why it makes sense to have h-cite in there
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gRegor` kylewm: that gives the cite a name attribute of "a post on twitter.com"
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kylewm yep!
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kylewm is that what you want? :)
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gRegor` Which is invalid, isn't it?
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kylewm that's what tantek's markup does, it just happens that his link text is the URL
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kylewm why would it be invalid?
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gRegor` I thought the 'name' attribute of a 'cite' should be the content from the URL
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gRegor` (or a part of it, if quoting a portion)
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gRegor` Or, if quoting nothing, should be the URL itself
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kylewm oh honestly I will have to leave the semantics to someone else, I don't know what's correct in practice
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gRegor` Ok. I can easily tweak it. I think I'll go with the u-name just so parsers don't pull in extra stuff.
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@ayirpelle RT @t: #PDF14 talk "Why We Need the #IndieWeb" 13 minute video posted: https://www.youtube.com/ slides: http://tantek.com/presentations/2014/06/indieweb/ (ttk.me t4Wk1) (twitter.com/_/status/481968670756061184)
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gRegor` Welp, think I'm going to push notes out to my site. I'm not showing wm replies yet (or sending wm automatically), but better to get it out there, use it, and iterate. http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/06/25/1/
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gRegor` Heh, I just realized I haven't even set up the edit form for notes yet. :)
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KartikPrabhu gregor`++ for notes
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KartikPrabhu my first note was an article: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/first-note :P
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gRegor` Overachiever. ;)
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gRegor` Oh, I forgot about benwerd's art thing. I was going to get in on that, heh
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KartikPrabhu is not ashamed! -- crosses arms defiantly
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gRegor` Loqi, I hope you're tracking those ++s to apply them retroactively.
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Loqi dude
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gRegor` sweet
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rascul tantek++ for his talk i just watched
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Loqi tantek has 43 karma
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rascul oh he's not here he'll never know
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gRegor` He reads ze logs
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emmak !tell snarfed does bridgy support auto-discovery of its webmention endpoint for posse? I can't find it as either a rel or link header
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gregorlove.com edited /note (+114) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ noted my notes :)" (view diff)
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Loqi snarfed: emmak left you a message 8 minutes ago: does bridgy support auto-discovery of its webmention endpoint for posse? I can't find it as either a rel or link header
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snarfed emmak: sure! GETs to the webmention endpoint and targets all have it in a link header
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snarfed https://www.brid.gy/publish/webmention, https://www.brid.gy/publish/facebook, https://www.brid.gy/publish/twitter
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snarfed were you looking somewhere else?
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emmak yes, i was GETting http://brid.gy
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snarfed ah, ok
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snarfed if i put one there, i'd probably use it to accept actually webmentions for bridgy itself, ie not to trigger the publish service
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emmak i think i misunderstood how webmention discovery is supposed to work
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snarfed glad you're interested in using it btw! hope the docs are helpful enough. let me know if i can answer any other q's.
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snarfed emmak: no, you probably understand discovery ok. bridgy is just a special case because it's a proxy service, not a normal web site
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gRegor` I broked'd brid.gy trying to publish to twitter.
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emmak so normally you would request the root document for a site to find its webmention endpoint?
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snarfed emmak: no, you'd use the target page
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emmak ok, so that is the part that i misunderstood
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snarfed emmak: ah, ok
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emmak i think i got it now, thanks!
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snarfed emmak: np! if your site already sends webmentions automatically, use this for bridgy publish, should be easy: https://www.brid.gy/about#webmentions
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snarfed gRegor`: ruh roh, looking
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snarfed fortunately errors on individual requests never break bridgy as a whole :P
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snarfed gRegor`: …but you did indeed find a bug! https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1403747019&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyUAsSDVB1Ymxpc2hlZFBhZ2UiKWh0dHA6Ly9ncmVnb3Jsb3ZlLmNvbS9ub3Rlcy8yMDE0LzA2LzI1LzEvDAsSB1B1Ymxpc2gYgICAgIDkkQoM
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gRegor` Yeah, didn't figure I broke it totally.
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gRegor` I'm still working on that. ;)
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snarfed heh. feel free to try! if you can, that means i have a(nother) bug to fix
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snarfed hey kylewm, KartikPrabhu, i might have a mf2py bug
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KartikPrabhu oo
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snarfed on https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1403747019&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyUAsSDVB1Ymxpc2hlZFBhZ2UiKWh0dHA6Ly9ncmVnb3Jsb3ZlLmNvbS9ub3Rlcy8yMDE0LzA2LzI1LzEvDAsSB1B1Ymxpc2gYgICAgIDkkQoM , see the log line that starts "Parsed microformats2: …"
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snarfed the "content" property has a list containing just a string
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snarfed as opposed to a dict with "html" and "value" fields
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snarfed php-mf2 returns the dict for the same page: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/06/25/1/
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: that is curious... see: https://kylewm.com/api/mf2?url=http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/06/25/1/ mf2py is doing the right thing
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snarfed aha, maybe i just need to pull recent changes
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KartikPrabhu same when I checked using https://kartikprabhu.com/connection/mfparser
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KartikPrabhu this should have been correct from the start. it is not a new change afaik
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: let me know if this persists on pulling latest mf2py
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snarfed huh, ok
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gRegor` snarfed: I did correct my markup between my publish attempt and now. It was p-content, now it's e-content.
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gRegor` If that matters
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snarfed gRegor`, KartikPrabhu: aha. i also pulled mf2py, but your change probably fixed it, not mine
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snarfed works now, in any case
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gRegor` Did the HTML inside p-content throw it off?
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gRegor` Sorry for the confusion
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snarfed maybe! easy to test
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snarfed KartikPrabhu, kylewm: might be worth a new p-content test case for mf2py. up to you all.worth a n
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snarfed bbi a bit
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@gRegorLove This is my first note. There are many like it on the indieweb, but this one is mine. (http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/06/25/1/) (twitter.com/_/status/481990276982919168)
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gRegor` Boom. POSSEd
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gregorlove.com edited /note (+82) "/* gRegor Morrill */ POSSE" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: p-content should just be a string... not sure it is worth a test case.
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gRegor` Yeah, in an earlier iteration I just had text. Forgot when I later added an auto-p function
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snarfed kylewm, KartikPrabhu: nm the p-content test case, mf2py is doing the right thing as is
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@schnarfed @dylan20 thanks for trying http://t.co/UNRpMam4Vb! next (and final) step: install the indieweb wordpress plugin. http://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/481999735931154432)
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snarfed cool, the venturebeat editor-in-chief is talking about bridgy and signed up: https://www.facebook.com/tweney/posts/10152094072731207
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snarfed sorry, and talking about indieweb and posse too!
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: I am wondering about Brad King's comment there with "And POSSE is nearly unworkable. I've never got it working properly, but I hope they can make it more user friendly..."
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KartikPrabhu anyone know about Brad King's efforts to implement POSSE?
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aaronpk whoa hello scrollback. been offline a while I guess
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aaronpk can't wait to see KevinMarks' ignite video!
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: it was a good talk
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aaronpk haha "the strategy is called POSSE, a somewhat warped (and potentially unfortunate) acronym for Publish on your Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere" (from https://www.facebook.com/tweney/posts/10152094072731207)
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@aaronpk Come to an #indieweb breakfast tomorrow at TILT 7:30a-9a! http://aaronparecki.com/events/2014/06/26/1/indiewebcamp-breakfast (twitter.com/_/status/482025709167054848)
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@anomalily @aaronpk I want to crash an OSbridge event tomorrow, and #indieweb breakfast meeting may be the only one not during my work hours. (twitter.com/_/status/482026276036038656)
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snarfed looking at bridgy's FB event invitee posts…i think they actually already implement http://indiewebcamp.com/invitation
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snarfed e.g. https://brid-gy.appspot.com/rsvp/facebook/11500459/1449931115256635/31600719
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snarfed hands the implementation baton to aaronpk
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aaronpk oop! cool
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aaronpk oops crap why was loqi offline
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gRegor` Siesta
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aaronpk slacker
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KartikPrabhu ooo more marginalia updates! https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia marginalia shows up in a side-panel :)
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aaronpk ohhhh nice
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aaronpk now we're talking
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snarfed whoa, side panel! cool!
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snarfed KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 38 karma
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KartikPrabhu next step would be some animation so it slides out :)
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bear KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 39 karma
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KartikPrabhu :) :)
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bear small UI suggestion - make the show become hide so the mouse doesn't have to move if it's a quick read
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KartikPrabhu as in not move it into the panel?
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bear yes
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bear or both
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KartikPrabhu both... interesting. good suggestion. thanks
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KartikPrabhu i moved it because on small screens the panel covers the original paragraph
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bear ah
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KartikPrabhu would also appreciate how to avoid the covering thingy
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bear yea, I was viewing it on my large desktop monitor
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bear yea, that's a hard UI item (well, hard for me)
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bear do you fix the width to a minimum, switch it to a bottom view with the para up top or just treat it like a tab
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KartikPrabhu i like that people here left me long comments... Medium's UI would break on such long comments
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KartikPrabhu bear: hmmm will play around with the UI more thanks :)
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KartikPrabhu this is just the second pass
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snarfed.org edited /invitation (+189) "/* IndieWeb Implementations */ Bridgy" (view diff)
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bear wow - pretty amazing looking already
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KartikPrabhu thanks :) I am liking how this is turning out. I was pretty sceptical of picking up something so complex sounding
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aaronpk oops I just replied to a deleted tweet
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KartikPrabhu :P
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KartikPrabhu "if aaron replies to a deleted tweet, did he really reply?"
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aaronpk do I delete my reply?
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KartikPrabhu <shrugs> I'd keep it. maybe put a paraphrased context
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@anomalily @aaronpk I don’t know, I’m totally a n00b when it comes to #indieweb stuff. And there is this AHEM REALLY BIG sportsball game in the morning (twitter.com/_/status/482032384867856385)
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aaronpk she replied to my reply of her deleted reply ^
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: wasn't she signed up already?
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aaronpk KevinMarks: whoa I just got a *webmention* from your 2011 blogspot article to oauth.net... are you testing something right now?
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KartikPrabhu nm... i don't know from where I remember her name
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snarfed aaronpk: KevinMarks's blogger blog is signed up for bridgy blog webmentions, it may be that
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aaronpk whoa, is this a new thing?
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aaronpk sending outgoing webmentions for blog posts?
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snarfed :P launched a bit ago. incoming too!
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snarfed blogger, tumblr, wordpress.com
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snarfed https://www.brid.gy/about#blogs
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aaronpk wow I missed that
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aaronpk oh man that's awesome
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snarfed https://www.brid.gy/blogger/3200930
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snarfed http://news.indiewebcamp.com/post/snarfed.org/2014-05-13_webmentions-for-blogger-tumblr-and-wordpress-com
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snarfed thanks!
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aaronpk I somehow missed that that sends *outgoing* webmentions!!!
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: Is fragmention (popover with link) disabled on your marginalia post?
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KartikPrabhu nope shoudn't be
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gRegor` Just highlight text, right?
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gRegor` Name typo: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia##As Criag notes
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KartikPrabhu fragmention clicking puts a green bar on the left
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KartikPrabhu aa seen! thanks
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gRegor` Bah https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia##As+Criag+notes (built it manually )
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gRegor` Right, I mean to highlight text and copy the fragmention link
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KartikPrabhu somhow that is the only place I have "As" so it worked
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gRegor` :)
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KartikPrabhu oh haven't put that inyet
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gRegor` Ok, just checking
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KartikPrabhu should do that to build a complete fragmention+marginalia system
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gRegor` I took it for granted since I've seen that Kafka test page several times :
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gRegor` :)
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@aaronpk @anomalily no way! You already have your own website which is a solid start! Besides, the casual... #indieweb http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/06/25/7/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/482035095201533952)
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KartikPrabhu ha! that is a good sign :)
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gRegor` Is your responsive layout custom or a framework like bootstrap?
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: custom. Built a gridsystem using Gridset and went from there
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gRegor` Nice
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gRegor` I was going to suggest maybe changing the panel as the screen gets smaller. Noticed the font already does get smaller, though.
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KartikPrabhu the width of the panel is changing... sometimes very slightly to maintian readability... don't want it getting too narrow
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KartikPrabhu is out. night!
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KevinMarks Aaronpk I suspect it is a side effect of my bridgy use
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cweiske what's the difference between "web sign-in" and RelMeAuth?
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@OnTheWebz RT @t: #PDF14 talk "Why We Need the #IndieWeb" 13 minute video posted: https://www.youtube.com/ slides: http://tantek.com/presentations/2014/06/indieweb/ (ttk.me t4Wk1) (twitter.com/_/status/482070078888751104)
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pfefferle good morning
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petermolnar good morning
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petermolnar !tell GWG I've reorganised my plugin-abstract & plugin-utils classes ( https://github.com/petermolnar/wp-common ) before starting the major work on a posse plugin, man, it's going to hurt, but I'll dive into it soon
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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pfefferle petermolnar a WordPress bootstrap plugin?
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petermolnar I'm very far from calling it a bootstrap plugin, it's just an abstract class to handle some bits and pieces common in all plugins, like networks safe options reads/write, and so on
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petermolnar but now that you mention it I should take a look at the plugin you've talked about yesterday
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petermolnar or was that only for a theme?
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pfefferle you can use it for themes or plugins… doesn’t matter...
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jonnybarnes.net created /IPv6 (+1101) "Starting IPv6 article" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes what text are people like aaronpk and barnabywalters actually sending to twitter?
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jonnybarnes the notes look like ... (<link>)
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jonnybarnes so are they sending ... (http://aaron.pk/nABC12)
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jonnybarnes I think that's what they would send
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cweiske.de edited /search (+117) "/* site search with site backend */" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /search (+40) "/* Software */" (view diff)
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@AnnaSaulwick Looking forward to IndieWebCamp at @agoracollective on Sat. Tools for controlling our own data on a decentralised web https://brennannovak.com/notes/472 (twitter.com/_/status/482137844077838336)
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cweiske bnvk, I would have liked to come saturday, but starting at 14:00 is too late since I could only be there sat
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bnvk cweiske: are you in berlin? What do yo mean 14:00 is too late?
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cweiske I would have come to berlin for the event
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cweiske but only on sat
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bnvk ok, is there anything stopping you?
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cweiske yes, the starting time
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cweiske I'd rather have the event going all day on sat instead of only half a day
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bnvk I'm confused why middle of the day is too late?
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@jancborchardt @znarf hey man! In Berlin this weekend? Come to #IndieWebCamp: https://brennannovak.com/notes/472 – (reg. app store similar to http://ladistribution.net ) (twitter.com/_/status/482139479998996481)
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bnvk cweiske: oh, you'd like to be around for a full day… well, my planning is because wanted a little bit of overlaps with the US events
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cweiske ok. but maybe for the next time
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bnvk and it's hard to ask people to stay at tech events late into the evening
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bnvk you're welcome to come earlier and hangout with me and jancborchardt and chat about stuff :)
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bnvk where are you based?
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cweiske near leipzig
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cweiske 1h train ride from berlin
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cweiske (from leipzig to berlin)
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cweiske i have 30m from home to leipzig
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bnvk aw, you should try to come :)
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@jancborchardt @galfert @skddc yeah, would be really cool to have you. Need to talk about this thing: http://indiewebcamp.com/store (twitter.com/_/status/482140852169744384)
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cweiske.de edited /store (+177) "/* Vocabularies */ link doap examples" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /store (+1372) "/* Vocabularies */" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /store (+42) "/* Client App Store Examples */ ouya store" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /store (+1872) "/* Store */" (view diff)
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bnvk !tell aaronpk: I need to chat with you at some point about where is appropriate for me to list the venue sponsor here
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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brennannovak.com edited /how-to-sponsor (+280) "/* Cambridge, Massachusetts */" (view diff)
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jancborchardt.net created /2014/Berlin/Schedule (+569) "first draft of Berlin schedule" (view diff)
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jancborchardt.net edited /2014/Berlin/Schedule (+182) "/* Sunday, June 29, 2014 */ update Berlin schedule" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /2014/Berlin/Schedule (-120) (view diff)
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jancborchardt.net edited /2014/Berlin/Schedule (+183) "/* Sunday, June 29, 2014 */ re-add schedule which was deleted by previous edit" (view diff)
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cweiske sorry
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jancborchardt cweiske: no worries ;)
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cweiske seems mediawiki does not notice when someone else edited in the meantime
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Loqi jancborchardt: tantek left you a message on 6/18 at 9:48am: looks like you added https://github.com/indieweb/libreprojects in 2012 and it appears to not be maintained at all - it's just a directory of other projects right? not sure that makes sense in the indieweb repo (i.e. it's not something you can install to help get on the indieweb)
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jancborchardt !tell tantek it is maintained, however the repo lives at https://github.com/libreprojects and the site at http://libreprojects.net – I think back then you or maybe Aaron mentioned I should clone it into there
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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jancborchardt !tell tantek but it’s ok to remove the repo, yes
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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cweiske jancborchardt, why is slid.es listed? I dont' see the source code of the whole
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cweiske only reveal.js
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jancborchardt cweiske: yeah, slid.es is the hosted version of reveal.js
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cweiske no. reveal.js is only a js lib
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jancborchardt I know
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cweiske the stuff around is not in reveal
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jancborchardt libre projects is curated and a bit liberal in what exactly is chosen – one of the main focuses is that the software needs to be hosted, to be easily usable for everyone
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jancborchardt so that you don’t need your own server
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cweiske but it isn't necessary to be able to run it on your own server?
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@5apps Come learn and hack at the #IndieWebCamp in Berlin this weekend: https://brennannovak.com/notes/472 (twitter.com/_/status/482159348635152384)
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GWG I need to figure out a Javascript problem and I don't know Javascript. What do you think is the best way to go about it?
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Loqi GWG: petermolnar left you a message 5 hours, 52 minutes ago: I've reorganised my plugin-abstract & plugin-utils classes ( https://github.com/petermolnar/wp-common ) before starting the major work on a posse plugin, man, it's going to hurt, but I'll dive into it soon
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cweiske is someone running a indiesearch site that one can use to provide search to his own site?
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c2.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+331) "/* West */" (view diff)
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c2.com created /User:C2.com (+711) "Created page with "[[Ward Cunningham]] has been pushing content to the independent web for twenty years from c2.com. The site hosted the first ever wiki, http://c2.com/cgi/wiki I ask, what obliga..."" (view diff)
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c2.com created /Ward_Cunningham (+68) "Created page with "Wait, I thought I had a page here already. See my login, [[c2.com]]."" (view diff)
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c2.com edited /Ward_Cunningham (+5) (view diff)
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@JulieWoodgate The IndieWeb - more creativity & personal control, @undermanager /Media Week: http://www.mediaweek.co.uk/article/1298102/web-idealists-point-content-cant-truly-blossom-walled-gardens (twitter.com/_/status/482178063862886400)
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@_jden at #indiewebcamp breakfast! (twitter.com/_/status/482179711997472770)
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Loqi tantek: jancborchardt left you a message 1 hour, 44 minutes ago: it is maintained, however the repo lives at https://github.com/libreprojects and the site at http://libreprojects.net – I think back then you or maybe Aaron mentioned I should clone it into there
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Loqi tantek: jancborchardt left you a message 1 hour, 44 minutes ago: but it’s ok to remove the repo, yes
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kylewm GWG: how big is the javascript problem? maybe post a jsfiddle and someone can help debug?
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kylewm I know just enough js to be dangerous ;)
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GWG kylewm: It's a problem for a site I help out with on Stocks. A responsive loader of Javascript ads.
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GWG kylewm: They thought since I've been fiddling with Wordpress PHP, I could crack it
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GWG By the way, how does this look?
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GWG http://tiny.n9n.us/
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GWG I was playing with my icons again
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tantek thanks jancborchardt!
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kylewm GWG: the repost/like/reply icons? I like them. better than the ones I use on my site
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GWG They are actually for the purpose of rel=me, though I tagged on RSS, Email, and Search
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kylewm oh I was looking at the wrong icons
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GWG I like the repost/like/reply icons also. But that isn't what I was working on today.
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tantek cweiske - would be great if you could make it to IWC Berlin!
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tantek bnvk - if you can start things earlier for folks to informally hangout and chat in Berlin - it's totally cool
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GWG tantek: What time are we starting Saturday morning?
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tantek worth it for the local folks there to get a sense of local indieweb community
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tantek GWG what does the schedule say? ;)
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GWG Why didn't I see that when I checked yesterday?
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GWG Hmm...
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GWG I must have been tired
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tantek don't know - I didn't touch anything ;)
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tantek I mean, well, I didn't touch anything "Schedule"
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tantek touches many things on the wiki
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GWG And we are still TBD on NYC Pre-Party
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tantek Great to see Ward can make it to West too
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GWG I'm the wrong person to advise on that.
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tantek how's breakfast Portland folks? aaronpk caseorganic
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GWG I hang around diners and restaurants, not bars and coffeeshops
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GWG But, kylewm, think the social links work in the context? They don't need to be the ones I used in the test, but...
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kylewm GWG: totally, they definitely work
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GWG Now I have to figure out how to mark them up mf2 wise.
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kylewm is very frustrated that he can't find the python micropub client code he was pretty sure he wrote
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GWG Anyone have any suggestions?
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GWG Can you have multiple identity bits in different parts of the page?
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tantek GWG - usually multiple identity/authorship is indicated within the p-author properties of the individual h-entrys
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GWG Well, this is social links in the header. I want to use them for rel=me. But I could also not have that, and have an h-card elsewhere and have them just for the design appearance
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GWG tantek: This is the next generation of my site theme I'm working on. The one I am going to push to github in case anyone else wants to use it.
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tantek oh ok
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GWG tantek: So, I'm redoing the entire coding from scratch and switching from hard-coded information to a UI interface to enter them.
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kylewm !tell aaronpk i realized that PGP support on indieauth is really good for people who want to be anonymous/pseudonymous. i'm going to add that to the pitch if i'm asked about identity/safety!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG tantek: Your preferred contact methodology is AIM?
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tantek publicly yeah
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GWG tantek: Interesting
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tantek I am of course working on a major revision of that: http://tantek.com/2013/338/b1/people-focused-mobile-communication-experience
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GWG tantek: I was just looking at that
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kylewm tantek: I was curious about that too, do you know people still on AIM?
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gRegor` raises hand
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GWG I have it hooked into my ZNC instance with BitlBee
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gRegor` Barely, though. Basically for one friend.
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tantek lots. our indieweb journalist Dan Gillmor for example.
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tantek refuses to use gtalk for Google distrust reasons (I don't blame him)
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GWG gRegor`: Ditto
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gRegor` Yeah, I'm on Bitlbee, too. Not my own instance though
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tantek similarly refuses to use a iOS device (i.e. iMessage)
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gRegor` I wonder if it's the same person, GWG. ;)
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tantek GWG, I'm (slowly) working my way through figuring out and documenting these: http://tantek.com/2014/067/b1/building-blocks-people-focused-mobile-communication
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GWG tantek: I was looking at the People-Focused link before you brought it up, as I'd seen it before...but that is for mobile. How would that translate to desktop?
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tantek GWG - I'll let you know when I figure that out ;)
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tantek mobile comms are a more frequent use-case so I'm solving that first
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tantek even when people are at their desktop they often pick up their mobile to communicate with someone 1:1
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GWG Okay. But, I'd ideally like a similar concept, but with different prioritization based on context
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GWG That is why I'm looking at icons in the header
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tantek GWG - hence context is a big part of the building blocks! See the last three items on this list: http://tantek.com/2014/067/b1/building-blocks-people-focused-mobile-communication
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GWG tantek: I've had the buttons feature for presence elsewhere in all of my iterations since the beginning. I want to perfect it: http://tiny.n9n.us/
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GWG It isn't exactly the people focused communication, but it can be used for that, so I will be following your thoughts for ideas
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GWG I will be adding the icon support for some of them, just in case
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hapgood.us edited /2014/Guest_List (+257) "/* West Apprentices */" (view diff)
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tantek wait what - if you can sign in with your own URL you're not an Apprentice!!
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tantek aaronpk ^^^
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hapgood.us edited /2014/Guest_List (+12) "/* West Apprentices */" (view diff)
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kylewm tantek: that's true of both West "apprentices" cc: gRegor`
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tantek ok so we've got mistakes being made in *both* directions
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tantek West Creators are signing themselves up as Apprentices
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gRegor` I put Amanda as an apprentice because she's not a developer and barely knows HTML.
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tantek An East Creator is signing up other Apprentices as Creators
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tantek gRegor`: see /creator - you don't have to be a developer to be a creator!!!
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tantek help us improve the documentation to make that more clear
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tantek you don't even have to know HTML
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gRegor` She uses a blogspot.com and wordpress.com blog linked from her domain. She's really somewhere between "blogger" and "creator"
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gRegor` Maybe the terminology should be clarified. Honestly she was a bit scared when I read her the description of "creator" and said "apprentice" would be better.
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gRegor` I'm planning to work on getting her set up posting on her domain on Sunday, even if very basically.
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gRegor` I think she falls under "creator" for the "design" aspect, since she knows graphic design.
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kylewm tantek: I'd guess the issue with East people signing up as Creators is the Apprentices section is below West
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tantek gRegor`: that's good feedback. especially about the being a bit scared part.
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gRegor` "scared" probably isn't the right word, but approximately.
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tantek we need to be welcoming to people who do use their own domain in any capacity like that, and yet we need to hold a line against the email-a-lot-crew
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tantek gRegor`: perhaps intimidated?
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tantek kylewm: yeah - worse than that - I don't think we had an East Apprentices section at the time. I fixed that.
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gRegor` I think another part of it was, at least my understanding, creators get up there and say "This is my domain and this is what I have." She was really more interested in sitting back and learning, since this is all new to her. And then setting up posting on her domain on Sunday.
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tantek I'm going to assume no malintent.
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gRegor` Yes, intimidated.
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tantek gRegor`: yes - that I understand. it's also why I get up and show how kludgy my posting system is during the intro demo session.
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@anomalily Good #indieweb breakfast this AM Thanks for the encouragement @aaronpk - Clearly 2 cups of coffee w/ no breakfast makes me too talkative tho (twitter.com/_/status/482197220725633024)
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tantek just to show people it's ok no matter how little or how kludgy your setup is. just show what you got. we all start somewhere. we're here to improve each other.
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gRegor` I figured it would be something like that, but I probably wasn't able to convey that properly.
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tantek gRegor`: this is very helpful
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tantek also if you want to take a crack at iterating on /creators to make it friendlier sounding, perhaps with feedback from your fellow creator :) it would be great
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gRegor` My primary interaction with indieweb is here and HWC, which tends to be the quite technical people. But really the bare requirement to be a creator is to have a domain you can sign in to the wiki with.
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gRegor` Yeah, I'll be thinking about it.
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gRegor` I'll send some emails. jk ;)
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kylewm i'm in favor of anything we can do to be more welcoming to writers, designers, artists etc.
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gRegor` Glad to help
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kylewm or not "more welcoming" but "bring more of them in"
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gRegor` I think maybe stressing "even if you're just starting out with your domain..." you're still a creator
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aaronpk gooood morning!
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Loqi aaronpk: bnvk left you a message 3 hours, 25 minutes ago: I need to chat with you at some point about where is appropriate for me to list the venue sponsor here
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gRegor` Morning, aaronpk
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gRegor` How was indiebreakfast?
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Loqi aaronpk: kylewm left you a message 28 minutes ago: i realized that PGP support on indieauth is really good for people who want to be anonymous/pseudonymous. i'm going to add that to the pitch if i'm asked about identity/safety!
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aaronpk great! we had 10 people!
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aaronpk kylewm: that's a great point! it's the only mechanism that doesn't require any additional information other than the domain, since SMS and email are not exactly anonymous
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jonnybarnes people here using nginx: if I have a value set for `client_max_body_size` set in my nginx.conf file, can I overwrite that value in a vhost file?
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aaronpk jonnybarnes: http://nginx.org/en/docs/http/ngx_http_core_module.html#client_max_body_size
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aaronpk "Context: http, server, location" so I think yes
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aaronpk !tell bnvk you can add to http://indiewebcamp.com/sponsors as well as http://indiewebcamp.com/2014#Sponsor
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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ben_thatmustbeme Hmm I'm thinking i'm going to move my card interface to polymer
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@t #IndieWeb talks this week so-far: #osb14: @aaronpk #IndieAuth @caseorganic Silo Labyrinths #io14: @kevinmarks Ignite (ttk.me t4Wn2) (twitter.com/_/status/482199996662439939)
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@kevinmarks RT @t: #IndieWeb talks this week so-far: #osb14: @aaronpk #IndieAuth @caseorganic Silo Labyrinths #io14: @kevinmarks Ignite (ttk.me t4Wn2) (twitter.com/_/status/482202295166173188)
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@indiewebcamp RT @t: #IndieWeb talks this week so-far: #osb14: @aaronpk #IndieAuth @caseorganic Silo Labyrinths #io14: @kevinmarks Ignite (ttk.me t4Wn2) (twitter.com/_/status/482202552159596544)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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gRegor` Hi, indie-visitor
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indie-visitor hi
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indie-visitor robert here from Brazil
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post-by-email uploaded /File:20140626-164805.jpg "Uploaded via email by Aaron Parecki <aaron@parecki.com>"
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indie-visitor i am looking for a community to join to help me build an io site
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indie-visitor i am looking for a community to join to help me build an io site?
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kylewm welcome, robert!
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tantek hey Robert, go ahead and type /nick robertxyz (or whatever) to set your name!
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indie-visitor hi
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tantek start your line with the /nik
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tantek er, /nick
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robertmorris my website is http://blog.robertmmccall.com/
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tantek welcome robertmorris!
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robertmorris i want to collaborate with artist to produce material for a new website
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robertmorris within an indie community
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npdoty every time the bot tells someone how to use the /nick command, my IRC client pings me, telling me someone is talking about me in this channel :)
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post-by-email uploaded /File:20140626-165348.jpg "Uploaded via email by Aaron Parecki <aaron@parecki.com>"
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:20140626-164805.jpg "this one was too blurry"
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kylewm robertmorris: could you clarify what kind of site you want to build?
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robertmorris an io site
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ellton hi buddies
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robertmorris which allows me to collaborate with artists
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ellton finally I get my own paid domain: ellton.me
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aaronpk ellton: congrats!
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kylewm robertmorris: what's an io site? :)
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ellton I want to correct IRC People page info
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robertmorris i am a filter feeder
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ellton but it isnt editable
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robertmorris and future artists
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aaronpk ellton: you shuold see an edit button on the top bar after you sign in
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robertmorris I paint write research
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jden great breakfasting with portlanders this morning
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aaronpk jden: indeed! thanks for coming!
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robertmorris and am a teacher
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aaronparecki.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:20140626-165348.jpg]]": fix rotation" (view diff)
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robertmorris and will use the site for students
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robertmorris will need webrtc capability and twilio apps available
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robertmorris and community to make it work
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ellton aaronpk: not in irc people page... I found it on end of page
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ellton aaronpk: ;-)
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aaronpk should be right under the black bar, and its also in the footer
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ellton.me edited /IRC_People (+0) (view diff)
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robertmorris one word teaching and visualizing
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-06-26-indiewebcamp-breakfast (+712) "add URLs for all attendees and photo!" (view diff)
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robertmorris connecting words via links
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robertmorris with social interaction
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robertmorris i am in Brazil
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robertmorris from New Zealand
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robertmorris but have been kicked out of Linkedin political group
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robertmorris for asking questions
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robertmorris so I feel I need privacy
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robertmorris likke
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robertmorris like
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ellton robertmorris: do you live in brazil?
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robertmorris yep
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robertmorris internet freedom is being lead by Brazil I think
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robertmorris netmundial
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robertmorris i am not a coder though
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robertmorris and have no income
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robertmorris just fighting the fight best way i can
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ellton robertmorris: im brazilian. let's do a indiewebcamp here
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robertmorris oh cool
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robertmorris beleza
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robertmorris ok
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robertmorris what does that mean <elton>
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robertmorris <elton> what does indiewebcamp mean?
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robertmorris How much does it cost?
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robertmorris it looks perfect for me reading the indie website
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ellton robertmorris: indiewebcamp is the meeting
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robertmorris tumblr and twitter integration
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robertmorris oh ok
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robertmorris meeting
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robertmorris yep
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robertmorris ok
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robertmorris anytime
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robertmorris watching video - why we need indiecamp
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robertmorris and POSSE
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robertmorris my email is robertmorrismccall@gmail.com
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willnorris tantek: when calculating ordinal date for Whistle URLs, do you use UTC or local time? (can’t find any mention of timezones on your wiki pages)
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aaronpk uses local time, whatever the current local time is to the post
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willnorris aaronpk: so whatever timezone you’re in at the time of making the post?
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aaronpk right
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tantek willnorris - I think I've pegged everything to Pacific since 2010-01-01
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tantek regardless of where I am
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tantek yes this is something I need to fix / better specify
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tantek from storage level on up
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tantek btw - welcome back to IRC willnorris :)
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tantek you in SF for io14
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tantek ?
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willnorris thanks :) no, just working as normal in mt view
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@hellekin In his #PDF14 talk "Why We Need the IndieWeb", @t mentions a compelling argument: #SiteDeath http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths https://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/482214042258272256)
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anomalily.net edited /2014/Guest_List (+442) "/* West */" (view diff)
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anomalily.net edited /2014/Guest_List (-1) "/* West */" (view diff)
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aaronpk tantek: breakfast went well! I added everyone's sites here and a photo! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-06-26-indiewebcamp-breakfast
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gregorlove.com created /joomla (+20) "Redirected page to [[Joomla]]" (view diff)
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tantek got to run - but has anyone seen the awesome timeline display design that Google has for the Worldcup games?
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tantek could be useful for design inspiration for Indieweb timelines
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tantek e.g. for running / bicycling or any other timed activity
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tantek https://www.google.com/search?q=usa+germany+score
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tantek screenshot that
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gregorlove.com created /Joomla (+811) "stub + criticism" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Joomla (+2) "/* Criticism */" (view diff)
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gRegor` doesn't hide his hatred for Joomla
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gregorlove.com edited /Joomla (+50) (view diff)
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@dylan20 @schnarfed Oh hey, thanks! It keeps telling me it is having trouble w/ Jetpack. I’ll try the indieweb plugin next (twitter.com/_/status/482223436543303680)
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robertmorris hi I missed <eltton> and he has left now, but he offered to set up a meeting with me, can anyone else help please.
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robertmorris ?
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robertmorris i would like to sing up to indie and get an io site
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robertmorris sign up - lol
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robertmorris cheers
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kylewm hi robertmorris, there are a lot of resources on the indiewebcamp wiki related to software and tools and what people are using on their own personal site, but there's not like an "indieweb" product that you can install
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robertmorris oh ok
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robertmorris thank you
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kylewm people here are more than willing to answer specific questions and stuff though!
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robertmorris oh ok
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robertmorris i am a blogger, writer, curator, artist wanting to collate content and challenge traditional education, via collaboration of artist content and work
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robertmorris where might i go to get an io website please?
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robertmorris and a teacher, i teach online to students in Russia and Brazil
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kylewm sorry, what is an "io website"?
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robertmorris interested in multi-cultural content, combined, to produce one including art, audio, word, social, etc
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robertmorris the websites with the io tag
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robertmorris not .com
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kylewm ohhh
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kylewm check out http://indiewebcamp.com/domain_name_registrar
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kylewm someone mentioned that gandi.net was a good place to purchase .io domains
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kylewm though they are typically more expensive than .com, .org, etc.
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tantek also: http://indiewebcamp.com/short-domains#io :)
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robertmorris ok
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robertmorris many thanks
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bret io tends to be a bit more expensive iirc
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tantek.com created /io (+133) "stub with some disambiguation" (view diff)
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aaronpk At the Internet Archive talk now
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tantek.com edited /io (+1) "'" (view diff)
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aaronpk This lady is explaining the APIs available
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tantek is there a TOS or Application Key required? :P
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aaronpk Mentioned the "advanced search" API
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tantek what is io?
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Loqi io may refer to: http://indiewebcamp.com/io
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tantek heh
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aaronpk Which she said is "not so much an API but an easily understandable URL format"
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aaronpk With selectable output format
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tantek.com edited /io (+30) "try an explicit p-summary" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - now THAT's the kind of API I can get behind :)
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tantek what is io?
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Loqi io may refer to:
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tantek boom
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aaronpk She showed doing a search on this "API" which resulted in an HTML results page
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tantek great!
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aaronpk Then said "but nobody wants to scrape this..."
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aaronpk "That's why we have json!"
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donpdonp aaronpk: haha wat
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tantek right - so, put h-entry in it!
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tantek ahhhhh snowflake json!
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aaronpk So it occurs to me that a huge gigantic benefit of mf2 that seems to be not occurring to people is that you get JSON out of it!!
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bret no that needs to be emphasized when describing it to people
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tantek.com edited /snowflake (+40) "unique like" (view diff)
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aaronpk I think people are more likely to "get it" when explained that way
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bret JSON-µF
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tantek what is a snowflake?
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Loqi snowflake in the context of the indieweb, is typically used to refer in a derogatory way to "snowflake APIs", APIs that are (often silo) website or service provider-specific (unique like snowflakes) rather than an open standard http://indiewebcamp.com/snowflake
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bret lol
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tantek is done.
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aaronpk People have a strong aversion to "scraping" HTML since it feels dirty, and people like JSON because it's easy to deal with in code
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bret you still have to scrape JSON the first time you encouter it
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tantek right, that's why there's a microformats *parsing* spec and *parsers*. No scraping needed.
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aaronpk Bret: ahh don't tell them that
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aaronpk shh*
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tantek hahaha yeah, you still have to "scrape" inside those strings you get from any JSON API
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aaronpk Right, so the more we emphasize *using* the resulting data rather than parsing it the better
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tantek I want a Loqi audio interface so I can ask it over talky.io "Loqi, what is x?" and have it come back with the answer from the wiki.
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tantek Like Siri but community based
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Loqi gives tantek a Loqi audio interface so I can ask it over talky
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tantek !!!
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bret lol
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aaronpk People don't want to parse microformats. People do want to work with structured data.
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bret ?
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bret is that a quote?
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aaronpk Sure
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tantek that's what the parser library is for
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tantek same reason there are JSON parsers
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tantek duh
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tantek there's no difference - either way people call a parser!
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aaronpk Yep. My point is that is not currently obvious
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bret if you are not using JS you are parsing JSON
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willnorris.com edited /short-domains (+30) "/* me */" (view diff)
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tantek bret even if you are using JS you still have to parse it from the text JSON returned via http into JS object structures
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aaronpk Well json is native to JS technically, but is often actually parsed for security reasons
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bret JSON.parse
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bret yeah
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bret i guess thats true
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bret oh well
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tantek exactly. in all cases you make at least one call to a parser
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kylewm ok but JSON parsing and microformats parsing are not remotely the same order of magnitude of difficulty
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tantek JSON, microformats, doesn't matter
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tantek you call a parser
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tantek and you get objects back
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aaronpk My point is that people are so used to seeing json and understanig that it can be turned into native objects
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bret kylewm if you are in other languages, most people cant write their own parser, even for json
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aaronpk People do not understand that it's also true for mf2
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tantek "people are so used to seeing json" so that's crap. more people are used to seeing HTML than used to seeing JSON.
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aaronpk So we need to do a better job of communicating that
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aaronpk Sorry, developers*
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tantek this is developer echo chamber nonsense
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tantek exactly the same argument was made about XML
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bret kylewm but yeah, it is harder to pars html and µF
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aaronpk I know!
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bear welcomes everyone to the XML requires parsing throwback thursday party
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tantek we *do* need uf2 parsers in more languages kylewm
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tantek how's that python mf2 going? ;()
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tantek ;)
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tantek basically that's our missing piece(s) now
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bret ruh roh
danbri, dybskiy, lupinedev, emmak, wolftune, robertmorris, brianloveswords, donpdonp, squeakytoy, chloeweil, nemo-yiannis, pbeaulieu, nloadholtes, mcepl, jonnybarnes, Garbee, kronda, finchd, pdurbin, gavinc, realz, piney0, hidgw, terminalpixel, wagle, JasonO, icco, sdboyer, walkah, nagaway, aaronpk, Hodgestar, kylewm, markmhendrickson, dysfun, jacus, GWG, etymancer, rknLA, tommorris, benward, catsup, Jeena, XgF, voxpelli, b0bg0d____, Phae, mattl, amblin, CaptainCalliope, shepazu, PMurphs, smcgregor, memecake, binbasti, reidab, the_merlin, ben_thatmustbeme, saurik, rascul, trodrigues, jancborchardt, onewheelskyward, hober, mlinksva, otterdam, bear, jtzl_, hugoroyd, tallpaul, ryana, rhiaro and muhh joined the channel
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robertmorris i like the word
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aaronpk The irc servers got disconnected so half the room isn't here
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aaronpk Oh they're back now
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bear a "net split" is IRC jargon for when two servers on an IRC network disconnect
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robertmorris oh cool
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robertmorris or not
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bear because users connect to a specific server, suddenly people disappear from each others view of a channel
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bret aaaaaand were back
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robertmorris net split - cool name
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willnorris.com edited /domain_name_registrar (+209) "/* Opinions/Recommendations */" (view diff)
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aaronpk HTML+mf2 -> parser -> data
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aaronpk Just like JSON -> parser -> data
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bear [14:47:26] <bear> but yes, IMO we should be saying HTML -> mf2 tool -> native objects
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bret kylewm sorry didnt mean to pounce there, just thinking aloud
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tantek.com edited /snowflake (-10) "complete enough IMO to unstub" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /domain_name_registrar (+10) "/* Opinions/Recommendations */ expand gandi.net link" (view diff)
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kylewm bret: I didn't feel pounced upon ;) but I would hope any developer could write a json parser
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bear.im edited /domain_name_registrar (+24) "/* Registrars */" (view diff)
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kylewm but I agree the more important point is, html -> structured data just like json -> structured data
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bear.im edited /domain_name_registrar (+66) "/* Opinions/Recommendations */" (view diff)
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aaronpk Here's a thought
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aaronpk "Microformats is a way to turn any HTML page into JSON"
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dreev.es edited /2014/Guest_List (+469) "/* West */ dreeves added self" (view diff)
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bret Many developers are familiar with JSON, but everyone is familiar with html wheater they know it or not
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bear.im edited /short-domains (+375) "adding .im to the domain list" (view diff)
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dreev.es edited /2014/Guest_List (+0) "/* West */ markdown is hard" (view diff)
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aaronpk fwiw, everything about mf2 made way more sense to me after I saw the results of parsing a page printed as JSON
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bear yes! i'm often finding myself sending HTML pages thru mf2py just to grok the relationships - especially with nested items
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bret aaronpk idea: two pane website. Left side is html, right side is parsed µF. Updates as you change the left side.
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aaronpk Totally, that's why I have pin13.net as a bookmarklet
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aaronpk Bret yeah that'd be awesome!
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aaronpk Probably need a JS parser so it can be done client side tho
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bret browserify might work? I wonder if I can get the node µF parser into that
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dreev.es edited /2014/Guest_List (+0) "/* West */ update roster count" (view diff)
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tantek I am this close to ditching Colloquy on MacOS.
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aaronpk Try limechat!
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tantek It locks up for minutes upon wake from sleep
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aaronpk Everyone I know who uses a native Mac client uses limechat
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bret tantek limechat is free and good, and textual is even better. Textual is more of a hog and costs $$$
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tantek Colloquy (Not responding) CPU 100%
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tantek Ironically the iOS colloquy client is fine
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bear @tantek I've been using Textual for a long time now
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tantek So wtf is it doing on OSX?!?
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bret you cant beat a persistent IRC shell though. totally worth the two weeks of setup and getting used too
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tantek Hahaha two weeks of setup
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bret tantek i think the devs now work for apple and have no time
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bret XD
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robertmorris i just registered a domain, now what is the next steps to connecting it to indiecamp community, any recommendations - thank you, for your patience.
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tantek robertmorris: Check out /Getting_started
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bear Apple changed how network change events happen so software that uses the old api calls can hang for a long time - basically until timeout happens
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robertmorris ok many thanks
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tantek Bear damn that sucks
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bret robertmorris you now need to select a tool to run your site… this will depend on how involved you want to be with its development / maintenance
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bear yep
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robertmorris yeah
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robertmorris ok
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robertmorris lol
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bear Textual and Limechat are the two that seem to do very well with people who jump wifi nodes or sleep their gear often
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bret simply having an html page with some information about yourself is all you need to sign into the wiki
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bret and is a good project to start with
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tantek bear: Mind taking a few minutes with me this weekend showing me around Textual and/or limechat?
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bret getting a more functional posting system in place will be more satisfying eventually
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robertmorris i kind wanted to transfer my website
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bear @tantek would be glad to show you Textual - I don't use limechat at all tho
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tantek that's for sure
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bret textual is very easy, its the most modern UI for an IRC client right now
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robertmorris or point it to the new domain
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tantek said earlier pre-net-split:
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tantek we need python, ruby, even java uf2 parsers as good as the php uf2 parser
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bret robertmorris what is your existing website?
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robertmorris tumblr
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bret and what does it run on?
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robertmorris and a website
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tantek you can now setup a lot with Tumblr, with domain mapping, and with Bridgy feedback
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KartikPrabhu tantek... we have a python mf2 parser as good as php one :P
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aaronpk I'm going to test this out on people: "microformats is a way to turn HTML into JSON"
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robertmorris http://blog.robertmmccall.com/
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tantek KartikPrabhu: oh? didn't realize that!
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robertmorris i want to move to curation, collaboration
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KartikPrabhu tantek: mf2py
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tantek aaronpk - sounds good! see how devs vs. non devs react.
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robertmorris not sure how to do it
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bear @tantek - yes, KartikPrabhu and others have been seriously expanding and enhancing mf2py
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aaronpk Probably won't say that to non developers
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robertmorris so various artists logging in
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tantek like robertmorris - what do you think of that?
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tantek ;)
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robertmorris to contribute work
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robertmorris collate the work and create learning objects
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robertmorris current material
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tantek bear, KartikPrabhu perhaps update this then? http://microformats.org/wiki/parsers
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aaronpk Cause you have to know what JSON is in order for that to be useful
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robertmorris new emerging artists, writers etc
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tantek is gh / tommorris still the canonical source to mf2py?
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tantek robertmorris - don't know of any good indieweb solutions for such collaborative sites yet.
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tantek closest I've seen is a shared tumblr
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bear I believe so, KartikPrabhu has been good about sending fixes upstream
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tantek where people just share the special email address for posting to it
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robertmorris right
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes. gh/tommorris is the public safe-for-use version
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tantek great!
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kylewm tantek: but fwiw, all of us use KartikPrabhu's version
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Loqi [mention] http://www.wordyard.com/2014/06/26/indieweb-intro/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu I keep a bleeding edge fork around rgba(82, 127, 65, 0.5)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.wordyard.com/2014/06/26/indieweb-intro/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Previous_IndieWebCamps (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.wordyard.com/2014/06/26/indieweb-intro/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.wordyard.com/2014/06/26/indieweb-intro/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Projects (webmention)
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tantek ok that's awesome that mf2py has caught up to phpmf2 (nevermind the naming difference ;) )
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robertmorris mmm wanting to create learning objects and syndicate
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Loqi [mention] http://www.wordyard.com/2014/06/26/indieweb-intro/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/p3k (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu er... I meant bleeding edge fork: https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py
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robertmorris collaboratively
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Loqi [mention] http://www.wordyard.com/2014/06/26/indieweb-intro/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles (webmention)
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tantek robertmorris: what is a learning object? I think you maybe losing people here.
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robertmorris oh
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robertmorris ok
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robertmorris teaching English
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tantek KartikPrabhu: perhaps document the bleeding edge fork on http://microformats.org/wiki/parsers#Python ?
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Loqi [@scottros] On my way tomorrow to Portland for IndieWebCamp
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Loqi here's why, in form of a quick intro to this topic http://www.wordyard.com/2014/06/26/indieweb-intro/ (http://twtr.io/nr7qykkrvm)
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tantek robertmorris - go ahead and add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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robertmorris words, art, culture
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robertmorris okidoke
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tantek and then we can help you write-up want your wants are there on your User page
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tantek where it will last longer than just briefly on IRC
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KartikPrabhu sure...tantek
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tantek thanks KartikPrabhu !
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KartikPrabhu hmm create account it says...
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KartikPrabhu indieauth on microformats.org ?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: no an old school mediawiki account for now :(
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kylewm I added it KartikPrabhu. Though you should still register!
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KartikPrabhu i did register... thanks kylewm
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tantek would love help upgrading the microformats wiki to be like indiewebcamp
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Loqi [@Johannes_Ernst] RT @scottros: On my way tomorrow to Portland for IndieWebCamp
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Loqi here's why, in form of a quick intro to this topic http://www.wordyard.com/2014/06/26/indieweb-intro/ (http://twtr.io/nr8L_m0Sso)
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gRegor` indieauth would be awesome there
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kylewm authsome
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gRegor` http://hiyoooo.com
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kylewm :D
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@wordyard IndieWeb ho! A brief intro to a little movement with big ideas: It's a concept! It's a movement! It's a set of... http://www.wordyard.com/2014/06/26/indieweb-intro/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/482242272713392128)
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Loqi [@indiewebcamp] RT @scottros: On my way tomorrow to Portland for IndieWebCamp
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Loqi here's why, in form of a quick intro to this topic http://www.wordyard.com/2014/06/26/indieweb-intro/ (http://twtr.io/nr8rbf7hWQ)
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tantek nice article scottros!
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@gazoombo RT @veganstraightedge: Watch @t's talk from #PDF14 : "Why We Need the #IndieWeb" (13 minutes long) https://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/482243267744911361)
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gRegor` kylewm: Do you know on bridgy's original-post-discovery when it follows rel=feed, will it follow further links up to a certain point (e.g. if notes are paginated)?
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gRegor` presuming the pagination links also had rel-feed
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tommorris tantek: PyPi version is stable too
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tantek tommorris: I have no idea what that means
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KartikPrabhu tantek: tommorris means the Python Package Index: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/mf2py/
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tommorris What you get when you "pip install mf2py"
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KartikPrabhu added to microformats wiki :)
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tantek thanks KartikPrabhu you beat me to it :)
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tantek (again ;) )
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KartikPrabhu third time wooohooo!
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@kevinmarks My Ignite talk on Procustes and computers at #io14 yesterday https://www.youtube.com/ #indieweb #microformats (twitter.com/_/status/482247299964207104)
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@loriaustex RT @kevinmarks: My Ignite talk on Procustes and computers at #io14 yesterday https://www.youtube.com/ #indieweb #microformats (twitter.com/_/status/482248652937650176)
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kylewm gRegor`: right now it only follows one rel=feed, does not follow rel=next/previous or anything like that
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gRegor` Ok, thanks.
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reidbeels.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+285) "/* West */" (view diff)
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aaronpk waves
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kylewm.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+1) "/* West */ update counts" (view diff)
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tantek just struggled with DHCP IP address collisions again
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aaronpk wow I thought we had dhcp figured out a while ago :(
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2014-06-26-another-device-using-your-ip.png]]""
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aaronpk that sounds like poor dhcp server configuration
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tantek aaronpk - what do you mean by that? how can the default dhcp settings of an airport extreme be "poort"?
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tantek s/poort/poor
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Loqi tantek meant to say: aaronpk - what do you mean by that? how can the default dhcp settings of an airport extreme be "poor"?
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aaronpk most servers have an option to keep an address reserved for some amount of time after it was last used, so if that time is really short then the server may have given it to someone else in the mean time.
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aaronpk oh this is an airport??
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tantek and frankly, the error message is totally useless
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aaronpk I was assuming you were on some corporate network where the sysadmins went and tweaked all the knobs to make it more "secure" ;)
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tantek doesn't help track down the "problem" at all - if there is an actual errant device
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tantek this is why iot is crap
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aaronpk aw man I am so sad that h2vx is written as xslt.
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aaronpk what do calendar programs do with events with no duration/end time?
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bret all day!
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bear default is a full day event
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bret (think ical)
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aaronpk like the breakfast this morning, started at 2014-06-26T07:30:00-0700
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aaronpk definitely all-day is not the correct way to interpret that
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tantek aaronpk they give it a 1hr default length
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bret oic
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tantek if there is a start time
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aaronpk that seems reasonable
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bret yeah that sounds reasonable
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tantek if no start time it is intepreted as an all day event
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aaronpk crystal missed the breakfast this morning because she didn't see the posts about it
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bret :[
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aaronpk both amber and I tweeted it at separate times, I posted a couple days ago the full week event list,
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tantek aaronpk - you POSSEd to Twitter too
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aaronpk I made a facebook event for it, put it on calagator
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tantek so obviously Twitter now fails as an aggregator
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aaronpk and still she didn't see it
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tantek as does FB newsfeed
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bret we gotta text her
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aaronpk which is sad because now even the aggregators are failing at aggregating
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bear @aaronpk see the chart on Page 90 of http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4791.txt
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tantek it is both sad an opportunity for the indieweb
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bret too much noise maybe
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aaronpk last time we chatted she actually explicitly asked for an events feed she can add to her calendar
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tantek if even the silos are failing at aggregating, then there is an opening / opportunity for a new set of aggregation UIs
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tantek aaronpk - *what* calendar?
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aaronpk I just checked and the h2vx proxy doesn't actualy find all the events on /events
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aaronpk *her* calendar, what ever that is
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tantek a calendar is just another aggregator
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tantek you have to be more specific
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aaronpk (I assume google calendar)
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tantek otherwise we can't solve this
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aaronpk no I don't, it's hers
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tantek I mean you have to ask her
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aaronpk she asked for an ical feed
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tantek when sheasked for an events feed she can add to her calendar
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tantek "what calendar?"
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bret i find feed calendars the least reliable way to remember things… the ones i manage myself work okay
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tantek and what happens when people's calendars are as full of noise as their Twitter or their FB news feeds?
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tantek what then?
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tantek if Crystal can't manage what she's reading now, how will making her calendar noisier help?
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tantek ask Crystal *that* question
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tantek she's a UX person, make her figure out the UX problem of reading so much from so many
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tantek because that's why she's missing stuff
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aaronpk we will work on that this weekend :)
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tantek since you, Amber, etc. all tweeted it
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tantek which she obviously missed.
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tantek needs to post about how Twitter and FB news feeds have become noise.
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bret twitter is super DUPER noisy, at least for me
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tantek and hopeless to curate
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tantek bret - not just for you
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bret i follow pretty much anyone interesting or that I have met though
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tantek this has happened to all early adopters
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bret lol okay
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tantek and FB algorithms to attempt to show you only a relevant subset are ALSO failing - you miss stuff from friends.
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tantek the noisiness of Twitter and FB news feed have reached a level of failure similar to the RSS overload that RSS reader users felt last decade.
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tantek we've come full cycle.
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lukasrosenstock.net edited /App.net (+230) "/* Export your data from ADN */" (view diff)
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lukasrosenstock.net edited /App.net (+377) (view diff)
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LukasRos I just made my first two updates to the wiki on the page on App.net, so I thought this is a good time to say Hello here as well :)
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aaronpk LukasRos: welcome!
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tantek welcome LukasRos!
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bear thanks LukasRos for the wiki edits!
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LukasRos Thanks for the warm welcome!
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LukasRos I've been lurking around here sometimes but not active yet, maybe that will change.
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bear another good edit for new folks is the http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people page
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LukasRos At the moment App.net - even with its uncertain future - is something I'm looking into especially how it can be an Indieweb building blog. At the moment my own domain is something like a PESOS from App.net.
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LukasRos bear: Ok, I will add myself to that list.
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lukasrosenstock.net edited /IRC_People (+58) "Adding myself to the list" (view diff)
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bear thanks!
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lukasrosenstock.net created /User:Lukasrosenstock.net (+61) "Created page with "My website: [http://lukasrosenstock.net/ LukasRosenstock.net]"" (view diff)
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bret ohhhh yummy, talky.io ios client
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aaronpk whhhaaaaaattt!!
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bret :)
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bret talky++
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Loqi talky has 1 karma
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bret tantek you should get that
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Loqi bnvk1: aaronpk left you a message 5 hours, 12 minutes ago: you can add to http://indiewebcamp.com/sponsors as well as http://indiewebcamp.com/2014#Sponsor
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kylewm do those sponsor logos need to be hosted off-site?
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aaronpk I've been putting them on the server but not as part of the wiki bundle
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@Johannes_Ernst The #indieweb better appreciates this. My flight to PDX from SFO leaves at 5:59am. That means I need to... http://upon2020.com/banter/?p=321 (twitter.com/_/status/482278681864204290)
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GWG !tell KevinMarks Tried to listen to your Venturebeat appearance
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG Too hot here
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Sessions (+584) "will lead the micropub session! also add session about event discovery" (view diff)
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bret were having very portland weather http://forecast.io/#/f/45.5235,-122.6762
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aaronpk "Drizzle stopping in 1 min., starting again 6 min. later."
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aaronpk yup
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bret not bad though, walking around in a tshirt
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GWG aaronpk: Is Portland generally cool?
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bret cloudy
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aaronpk it gets warm in the summer, FSVO warm
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bret GWG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBUxZdWJ_zE
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GWG I find NYC stifling in the summer
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kylewm looking forward to cloudy. the peninsula has been non-stop sunny for too long!!
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GWG kylewm: I keep thinking of revisiting SF
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@benwerd @veganstraightedge It's not high on the list, honestly - but who knows what'll happen at #indiewebcamp? @erinjo @withknown (twitter.com/_/status/482282517911699457)
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aaronpk why not high on the list benwerd?
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benwerd It's like tantek was saying yesterday about scratching itches on your own site - it's not something I miss. But I might change my mind ;)
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aaronpk interesting
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GWG benwerd: What if you have a product used by many? How do you supply the calamine lotion?
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tantek benwerd - showing reply-contexts is part of IndieMark ;)
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aaronpk it seems super useful to me
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tantek I think it's key to giving people a Twitter replacement
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tantek even a minimal reply context (e.g. just show "In reply to: URL" ) helps
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tantek IMO
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tantek you don't have to ship perfect UI
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GWG AKA...do you build the product you want, or the product other people want?
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tantek GWG the first
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tantek the second distracts you and you end up not caring
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tantek because then you're working for someone else
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aaronpk definitely an in-reply-to url is needed, otherwise the post is out of context. but I feel like showing the text is an important part.
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tantek it's "just a job"
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tantek aaronpk - incremental
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GWG tantek: How about somewhere in between?
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tantek they're both important
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tantek GWG there is no in between
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tantek either it matters to you or it doesn't
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aaronpk doing it incrementally is more important :)
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GWG This is why I studied library science, not programming
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GWG I'm not going to build something I'm unhappy with.
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bear GWG - the only reason to add a feature that someone else will use is to enable better content for *your* site - not to make the other person happy
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tantek incremental: 1. "In reply to URL", 2. "In reply to (avatar) URL", 3. "In reply to (avatar) text linked to URL", 4. "In reply to (avatar) text dt-published-linked-to-URL"
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tantek there you go - incremental reply-context UI / implementation strategy
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tantek that wasn't so hard was it?
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aaronpk dt-published seems simpler than text imo
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tantek so just start with 1.
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tantek aaronpk - good to know, happy to be corrected, please feel free to re-order :)
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aaronpk it's surprisingly hard to show something sane for the text part of that
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tantek is only at 1) anyway
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aaronpk see: https://github.com/indieweb/php-comments
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aaronpk and it's still not perfect
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GWG bear: I agree
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tantek incremental: 1. "In reply to URL", 2. "In reply to (avatar) URL", 3. "In reply to (avatar) URL dt-published linked to URL", 4. "In reply to (avatar) text dt-published-linked-to-URL"
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GWG I was commenting on the idea that you build something you are unhappy with as a job
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aaronpk check out this file for all the examples in the wild I was testing with: https://github.com/indieweb/php-comments/blob/master/tests/BasicTest.php
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tantek good to know
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tantek need to add that in a structured form to /reply-context somehow
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aaronpk and yet something got screwed up with my latest reply to j12t! http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/06/26/1/
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tantek benwerd - btw an alternative reply to @veganstraightedge would be: Where is reply-context on the Homesteading roadmap?
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tantek per #scratchyourownitch #selfdogfood
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tantek until he's got it working himself for his software on his personal site, why is worrying about where it is on your "roadmap" (which is a barftastic corpo-think word btw)
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bret XD
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bret its right there on my map
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GWG tantek: What do you call your 'plan'?
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bret that i keep in the drawer at home under m
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bret for map
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KartikPrabhu 'itching' ?
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tantek (of course this is a bit of a trap, as "where is reply-context on Homesteading" begs the question: "where are *replies* on Homesteading" which begs the question, "where are *notes* on Homesteading")
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tantek you can use this kind of socratic method to redirect people's questions about your stuff into working on their own stuff - saves you time and empowers them to go do something about their time and stuff
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GWG I put in a roadmap section in the git repository, of stuff I want to do
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tantek GWG - my "plan" is called "working on". plain, simple, what it is.
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#Working_On
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GWG tantek, for you...I'll rename to naive hopes.
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tantek no metaphor to a "road" needed
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tantek nor a "map"
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tantek you don't need a "map". just a prioritized list.
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GWG tantek: The Toonerville Trolley?
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gRegor` Regarding incremental changes, I launched notes last night "early", even though I don't have wm replies showing up on them yet. I realized after launching I hadn't even built the "edit" form yet. But I'm glad I did, it feels good to have it out there, and it will inform my next updates.
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tantek.com edited /bulshytt (+109) "define it first rather than who coined it, then credit, cite, expand with a quote" (view diff)
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aaronpk yay!
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Loqi yay!
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tantek the word "roadmap" is basically a form of bulshytt
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gRegor` (I also really wanted some basic implementation of notes before IWC
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tantek unless you are actually refering to a literal map of roads
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gRegor` )
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bret woo gRegor++
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gRegor` "Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads."
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aaronpk knows something about a literal map of roads
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aaronpk ;)
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tantek "Roadmaps? When we're creating we don't need roadmaps."
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GWG gRegor`: It's your kids...something has got to be done about your kids.
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gRegor` Yay for 2014/Sessions filling in.
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gRegor` benwerd++ for sessions
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tantek misses Geoloqi tracking his run location on a map in realtime and displaying it in a shareable URL on the web.
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Loqi benwerd has 27 karma
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tantek gRegor`: congrats on launching "notes" post support! That's huge.
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aaronpk that was pretty fun. the only 2 others I know are Glympse (uses a flash viewer) and Runkeeper where it's part of a premium plan
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gRegor` Private posts will be good. Just today in talking with a friend, she didn't understand the whole "posting comments on your own site" thing. She has a private twitter account and prefers to be more private, so she'd rather just comment on someone's blog rather than broadcast it more. Interesting.
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gRegor` Thanks, tantek. The perfectionist in me balked at first, but it feels good to have it out there.
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aaronpk I almost want to add a session called Private Groups, but almost. not quite sure I want to go down that road just yet.
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tantek gRegor`: it's why I demo my own imperfect stuff
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GWG tantek: Can I tell people about my dreams at Indiewebcamp?
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tantek to keep reminding people imperfect and incremental is both ok and desirable.
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aaronpk because I have been making extensive use of private groups on facebook this past year for reasons I will only talk about in person
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tantek GWG as long as they are dreams for your own website, that's what day 1 sessions are for
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gRegor` Private groups, a la g+ circles, would be awesome.
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tantek perhaps that should be in the FAQ
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gRegor` I know kylewm has a basic implementation of private posts
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tantek aaronpk - perhaps add Private Groups as a lower priority itch?
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tantek to your User: page?
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aaronpk good idea
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aaronpk hm my itching list is on p3k
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tantek aaronpk - well presuming you set all the priorities for p3k, that's fine
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tantek otherwise you can split between personal / project itches as benwerd has done with /User:werd.io vs. /Known
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tantek your call
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aaronpk I think I might do that cause I don't really know how that fits in with p3k even
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tantek totally fair, you could have itches that don't map to a particular project
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tantek hence it makes sense to maintain both lists
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tantek what is bulshytt ?
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Loqi bulshytt means words, phrases, or even entire paragraphs which are misleading or empty in meaning http://indiewebcamp.com/bulshytt
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gRegor` Hah
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rascul i find the idea of private posts for indieweb interesting, but for me specifically i have little use for them
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aaronparecki.com edited /User:Aaronparecki.com (+270) "add personal itching section" (view diff)
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rascul isn't very private
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aaronpk normally isn't either
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tantek.com edited /bulshytt (+114) "add roadmap example" (view diff)
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gRegor` Is yes/no case-sensitive in <span class="p-rsvp">yes</span> ?
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tantek rascul - how often do you use SMS or private email?
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rascul tantek often, but the private part of it doesn't matter to me
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gRegor` is pretty public on social networks, but definitely sees the need for targeting groups sometimes.
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rascul tbh i would likely implement private posts just so that i can have it if one day i want to use it
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GWG tantek: That is what I was referring to, yes
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GWG I have my IndieWordpress Projects
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rascul i am curious though how private posting can be implemented
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gRegor` private posts are also important to me because I foresee it as a feature important to a lot of people and it will help expand the indieweb.
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tantek.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:2014-06-26-another-device-using-your-ip.png]]"" (view diff)
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rascul indeed
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gRegor` rascul: kylewm's basic implementation uses indieauth and displays the note only to domains he's shared the note with.
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rascul ahh ok
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rascul are there any other implementations in the world?
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gRegor` Getting into wm and other cross-site private posts would be interesting.
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rascul the cross site private posting would be quite interesting
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rascul not really sure how it could be done though
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gRegor` Really depends on the recipient handling it correctly, of course.
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gRegor` Don't wanna send a "private wm" to have it posted publicly. :)
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gRegor` See also /private_posts
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gRegor` !tell kylewm Could you share information about your private posts on /private_posts?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegor` aaronpk: Looks like your RSVP parsing only accepts lowercase "yes" and "no". My first wm had uppercase and it just showed up as a comment. I lowercased it and re-sent, now it shows up as attending.
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aaronpk rascul: if you use a data element you can have alt text for the rsvp: http://indiewebcamp.com/rsvp#Publish_an_RSVP
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aaronpk <data class="p-rsvp" value="yes">Yes!</data>
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bnvk aaronpk: is there some special way to upload sponsor logos to the wiki?
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bnvk or just the normal file upload?
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aaronpk bnvk: if you hotlink it i'll copy it locally, but we dno't want to upload it through mediawiki
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bret bnvk if the logo is compatable with the public domain wiki license you can upload it otherwise it has to be hotlinked or uploaded outside the wiki to the server
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bret woops
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bnvk hrm
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bnvk hotlinked means "host elsewhere" ?
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bret yes
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aaronpk in a talk right now on the usability of security
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bnvk https://brennannovak.com/uploads/images/graphics/Agora_Collective_Logo.jpg
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aaronpk perfect
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brennannovak.com edited /Sponsors (+253) "/* 2014 Sponsors */" (view diff)
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bnvk ok, I used the keyword "agora" in that wiki text
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bret ohhhhh pretty
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aaronparecki.com edited /Sponsors (+0) "slightly smaller logo" (view diff)
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aaronpk sweet thanks!
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tantek I've also made use of private groups a bunch on FB in the past year. So I see their value too. Not sure how the indieweb equivalent would work. Also not high on my priority list (though would be necessary to figure out to extract myself from FB).
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+1620) "/* Itches */ braindump low priority Private Groups itch just to get it out of my head, and maybe someone else will find the brainstorming useful" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk (and anyone else itching for Private Groups) in case it helps: http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#Private_Groups
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@benwerd I'll be at #indiewebcamp http://indiewebcamp.com in Portland this weekend. Join us! But also - if you're in PDX tomorrow, say hi! (twitter.com/_/status/482304171207430144)
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/ill-be-at-indiewebcamp-in-portland-this-weekend-join-us linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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brianhendrickson.com edited /2014/Guest_List (+539) "/* West */" (view diff)
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kylewm.com uploaded /File:kmahan-private-note-display.png "private note example from kylewm.com"
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kylewm.com uploaded /File:kmahan-private-note-edit.png "private note editing interface"
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kylewm.com edited /private_posts (+396) "added example screenshots of my private posts" (view diff)
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kylewm hey Loqi
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Loqi kylewm: gRegor` left you a message 1 hour, 10 minutes ago: Could you share information about your private posts on /private_posts?
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Sessions (+306) "add indieauth session" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu hey IWC-East participants: Anyone reaching NYC on Friday and want to do a pre-meetup Firday evening? cc: bear, brianloveswords, GWG, jeremyzilar
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bear KartikPrabhu I'm arriving saturday morning
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KartikPrabhu bear: alrighty! I'll see you on saturday then!