#indiewebcamp 2014-07-02

2014-07-02 UTC
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bear.im created /tmobile (+94) "sms/email gateway doc link" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - no that's definitely this decade in the middle east e.g. twitter
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aaronpk True!
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GWG tantek: what would you suggest I call a page on my brainstorming on the matter of changing communications links on a site based on the owner's context.
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tantek GWG - that wasn't so much brainstorming as asking a question - and the answer I gave was something I already blogged about in greater detail here: http://tantek.com/2013/338/b1/people-focused-mobile-communication-experience#context-presence
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tantek (I should have provided that URL before - apologies)
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tantek I've been wikifying the broader concept of indieweb site based communication at http://indiewebcamp.com/communication
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gRegor` aaronpk: posting via SMS will be a hipster thing here in a few years, I'm sure? :)
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kylewm aaronpk: would it be SMS or email?
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gRegor` (in the west)
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gRegor` !tell KartikPrabhu cool! So I guess it was delayed a few minutes, but worked.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: gRegor` left you a message 6 minutes ago: cool! So I guess it was delayed a few minutes, but worked.
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KartikPrabhu yeah
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GWG tantek: I wanted to write out my thoughts. But perhaps an article on my site is better for tat.
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tantek GWG - yeah - also why I blogged it first
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KartikPrabhu GWG: yes. don't let the wiki become another silo :P
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tantek it felt too unstructured and personal / fluffy idea so I decided to blog it
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tantek KartikPrabhu: haha - the wiki is a /commons :)
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tantek GWG - to be clear - great to have more people thinking about indieweb comms
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tantek *please* *do* blog about it :)
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KartikPrabhu yes. but we could always blog own ideas to own site and then POSSE it to wiki on further discussion :)
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gRegor` So, h-card question going back to IWC on Sunday.
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KartikPrabhu that way there can also be a "Articles on" section
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tantek KartikPrabhu: there is: http://indiewebcamp.com/communication#Articles :)
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KartikPrabhu yes! that's what I meant but for all ideas :)
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gRegor` I'm already realizing my markup is a bit off in that I combined rel-author with h-card, so ignore that for now, but on this URL: http://gregorlove.com/battlestaramandica/articles/a-good-start/
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tantek KartikPrabhu: that shows the webmentions for that page?
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KartikPrabhu ooo that might work :)
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gRegor` Amanda's info in the sidebar is an h-card, but it's outside the h-entry.
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gRegor` I suppose I could move it into the h-entry with some fiddling, but I'm wondering is it best to just link to the /about page using rel-author?
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gRegor` *and*, if I do so, should the sidebar even be marked up as an h-card on the individual posts?
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tantek gRegor`: why not <a rel=author href="/"></a> ?
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: tantek.com has a common h-card which uses.. uh yeah that ^
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gRegor` tantek: There is no h-card on amandamaclean.com currently and won't be for the near future, unless/until it's redesigned.
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gRegor` I could put an invisible one, of course, but since I'm already displaying them on the /about and blog pages...
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gRegor` was looking for an easy way to use those.
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gRegor` This blog will reside at battlestaramandica.amandamaclean.com, btw
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gRegor` I agree a common h-card is the ideal and eventually will probably have that.
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gRegor` For now I'm thinking of using /about as that common h-card though, which makes me wonder if there's any reason to mark up the h-card in the sidebar of the individual posts.
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kylewm does aaron's php-comments library follow rel=author?
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tantek kylewm - another way to ask that is how much of /authorship does php-comments implement?
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gRegor` Another way of framing my thoughts: maybe it's not necessary to mark the sidebar up as an h-card even though the info maps nicely to an h-card?
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kylewm right now I know, mf2util will only process the microformats it's given ... it does not make any additional requests
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gRegor` indiewebify.me does not support rel-author as far as I could tell on Sunday
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gRegor` Might pick your brain about this tomorrow, KartikPrabhu. Might be easier in person than in text.
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kylewm !tell aaronpk am i right in reading php-comments that it assumes the author's h-card is embedded in the h-entry? i.e. 1 & 2 of http://indiewebcamp.com/authorship
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm that could have been phrased better...
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gRegor` kylewm: Is that on indieweb or aaronpk github?
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gRegor` will take a look
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kylewm indieweb
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kylewm https://github.com/indieweb/php-comments/blob/master/src/indieweb/comments.php
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gRegor` Doesn't look like it handles rel-author, as far as I can tell.
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kylewm gRegor`: why not make the whole page an h-entry on http://gregorlove.com/battlestaramandica/articles/a-good-start/
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: user thing
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KartikPrabhu s/user/sure
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: gregor`: sure thing
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gRegor` That's a good option, kylewm. I'd need to do something for the main blog list then, too: http://gregorlove.com/battlestaramandica/
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tantek gRegor`: right - every permalink page should just be an h-entry at the top level
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gRegor` I think <a href="http://gregorlove.com/battlestaramandica/" rel="author"> would work for everything.
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kylewm gRegor`: main blog list should be an h-feed, with a p-author
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kylewm rel=author looks good per the spec, but it doesn't look like any authorship implementations follow it? I think KartikPrabhu's might
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gRegor` Hm
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gRegor` I follow it for my webmention implementation
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gRegor` Though it doesn't have extensive real-world testing
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gRegor` Each h-entry within the h-feed still needs a p-author, though, right? For which I could use a rel-author to the first page of the blog list.
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: gregor`: not sure mine does at the moment... will check
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kylewm gRegor`: if an h-entry doesn't have its own author, it assumes the author of the h-feed it's a part of
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gRegor` Ahh
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gRegor` Does indiewebify.me need to be updated? It recommends <a rel="author" class="p-author h-card" href="…">Your Name</a> for an author. I thought I saw tantek say earlier it should be either a rel or an h-card, but not both.
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gRegor` Every time I think I *kind* of have mf2 down, some new case confuses me. :)
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gRegor` Alright, think I've got the permalink page sorted out: http://gregorlove.com/battlestaramandica/articles/a-good-start/
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kylewm i'm not sure on the rel vs. class thing... that was in reference to rel=following links for the reader
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gRegor` Noticed you bumped your test size up on your site kyle. Looks good
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gRegor` *text
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tantek gRegor`: the recommendation is correct for simple single element a href h-card like that
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tantek that way consumers of rel=author that don't (yet) support h-card will follow the link and work that way
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tantek (there are rel-author rel-me consumers, e.g. google spiders)
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gRegor` Ah
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gRegor` So on this h-card: http://gregorlove.com/battlestaramandica/articles/a-good-start/
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gRegor` should I add a rel-author link in the h-card that points to http://gregorlove.com/battlestaramandica/ ?
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gRegor` guesses yes, based on tantek's own implementation
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tantek wait - this shouldn't be a subdomain
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tantek er shoulnd't be a path
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tantek SHOULD be a subdomain
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tantek we discussed this in NYC
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tantek and Sandro even documented it
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tantek in /subdomain I think
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gRegor` It's going to be a subdomain. Ran into dns issues
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gRegor` On Sunday, the subdomain was actually just a frame redirect to this, but now even that's broken somehow
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gRegor` (Probabl because 1and1 sucks)
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GWG gRegor`: Amen to 1&1 sucking
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gRegor` Sorry for the confusing URLs. It will be at http://battlestaramandica.amandamaclean.com/
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tantek GWG - perhaps add something about 1&1 on /webhosting ?
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tantek or gRegor`
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gRegor` tantek: Should I add <a href="http://gregorlove.com/battlestaramandica/" rel="author">Amanda MacLean</a> inside the h-card on that post?
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tantek no that is the h-card
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tantek that's the point
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tantek if there's an img it should go inside the link
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gRegor` I'm confused on the combination of rel-author in a one-line h-card then
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tantek why? the example you gave above made sense
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tantek from indiewebifyme
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gRegor` I don't understand why you add rel=author on a one-line h-card (like on your posts), but not on other h-cards, like this one I've set up in the <aside> element.
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gRegor` Is rel=author in combination with class=h-card saying "Go find the h-card over there"?
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gRegor` Because I was reading it as "this is the h-card"
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tantek gRegor`: rel=author only on the one-line p-author h-card inside the h-entry
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gRegor` I think this is a good candidate for updates on http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-author
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gRegor` It's still not really clear to me the "why" behind it.
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gRegor` Or a /rel-author on iwc. It just links to the mf wiki currently
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gregorlove.com edited /rel-author (+688) "Question section" (view diff)
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gRegor` tantek: Hopefully I've documented my question better on /rel-author now
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gregorlove.com edited /rel-author (+10) "/* Questions */" (view diff)
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tantek gRegor`: rel applies only the <a href>
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tantek so if/when you put it on other elements it does nothing
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gRegor` I'm talking about it on an <a href>
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tantek and if you use rel in combination with a more complex h-card it gets confusing
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gRegor` It's already confusing to me. :)
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tantek so don't make it more complex!
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tantek threre is no particular meaning to the combination
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gRegor` I'm not trying to. I'm trying to understand why you're using rel=author
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tantek rel acts on the a href
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tantek because legacy
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tantek some parsers only support rel-author + rel-me for determining authorship
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tantek and not yet h-card
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tantek so it's easy enough to put the rel-author on there for them
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tantek already mentioned google spiders above
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tantek so that's the why is it used
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gRegor` Right, so non-indieweb parsers, it sounds like.
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tantek pre-indieweb sure
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tantek and the "not in other, more verbose, h-card instances" because complexity
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tantek likely cause bad copy pasta
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gRegor` So if we're using more complex h-cards, should we just not be concerned with the legacy parsers?
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gRegor` Heh
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tantek rather the cost of complexity is then IMO worse than the cost of ignoring legacy parsers
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tantek tradeoffs
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gRegor` Ok
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gRegor` I get it better now. Thanks for the patience. :)
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tantek I think that question belongs more on indiewebcamp.com/rel-author
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gRegor` That's where I put it :)
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tantek oh wait it is sorry I was confused
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gRegor` It's contagious! (the confusing, haha)
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tantek gah - time to put computer away and do something else
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tantek gRegor`: if the answers I gave made sense - can you add them to the page? feel free to reword
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gRegor` In my defense, I got home at 4:30am and have been hazy all day :)
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tantek whoa
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tantek you seem fine by your words :)
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gRegor` I will summarize and link to chat logs
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tantek thank you!
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gregorlove.com edited /rel-author (+527) "/* Questions */ answer" (view diff)
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aaronpk hello scrollback!
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Loqi aaronpk: kylewm left you a message 1 hour, 27 minutes ago: am i right in reading php-comments that it assumes the author's h-card is embedded in the h-entry? i.e. 1 & 2 of http://indiewebcamp.com/authorship
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gregorlove.com edited /rel-author (+160) "dfn, see also" (view diff)
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aaronpk kylewm: yes right now the php-comments library only looks inside the h-entry for the author info
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gregorlove.com edited /rel-author (+17) "/* Questions */" (view diff)
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aaronpk part of the challenge of these mf2 libraries is not having them actually make the http request and not tying them to a particular http library
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aaronpk because the library shouldn't assume it's safe to make an http request at the moment the function is called
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-07-02-homebrew-website-club (-119) "NO PDX MEETING THIS WEEK" (view diff)
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JonathanNeal May there be multiple rel=“author” per page?
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: that would imply that the page has multiple authors...
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KartikPrabhu I don't think anyone here has a multi-author site yet
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aaronpk well known is a multi-author site
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aaronpk http://stream.withknown.com/
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KartikPrabhu oh hmm yeah!
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aaronpk interestingly, this post on stream.withknown.com is by benwerd, and it was POSSE'd to twitter from the @withknown account http://stream.withknown.com/2014/misuba-for-now-youll-need-to-connect-your-site-with
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KartikPrabhu hmm that could get confusing
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aaronpk multi-author is somethign twitter has struggled with for a while
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aaronpk hmm! just noticed that foursquare also credits the app that created the checkin! https://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/14554194812/
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KartikPrabhu nice!... I should do that and save a field somehow
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KartikPrabhu a lot of it would be quill :)
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gRegor` Alright, pretty sure I got all the mf2 set up propertly on http://gregorlove.com/battlestaramandica/ and the perrmalink pages.
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gRegor` Now to deal with the DNS
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kylewm aaronpk: that was exactly my issue with it with mf2util
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kylewm it's really nice that it runs quickly and has no dependencies
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aaronpk yep. so implementing the part of /authorship that involves more http requests will probably involve some sort of callback method where you can go do the http request yourself or defer it for later or something
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aaronpk kylewm: can you explain what your PR is trying to do? https://github.com/benwerd/indiereader/pull/1
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kylewm aaronpk: sure, "in-reply-to" wasn't being included in the micropub request
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kylewm so i just passed the data-url attribute down from the Reply button to the created save button
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kylewm it looked to me like that was the intention
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aaronpk oh gotcha,
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aaronpk yep looks good thanks!
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kylewm yay :)
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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@holden @jimgroom Don't forget PESOS: http://indiewebcamp.com/PESOS (twitter.com/_/status/484182137524846592)
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@jimgroom @holden I wanna hear about your time at IndieWebCamp, and I was wondering if post I just published ignores publishing model of SFW (twitter.com/_/status/484191995519594496)
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JonathanNeal Is there a webmention validator?
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aaronpk indiewebify.me has some stuff I think?
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aaronpk what are you trying to validate?
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JonathanNeal I’m still trying to understand webmentions. I was told they don’t have to rely on microformats (and I have nothing against them) but I’m trying to understand what fields must be sent in a webmention and how those fields are communicated without microformats.
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: feel free to use: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/test-note-totally-te for testing
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KartikPrabhu additonally the only fields needed are "source" and "target"
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aaronpk just separate the idea of the "mention" from rendering the mention
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aaronpk in practice everything works way better when tehere's microformats on the source page
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JonathanNeal yes, source is where the mention resides, target is the where the mention is directed, but the source must also contain something.
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KartikPrabhu source must contain a <a> link to the target. so that the target can verify that it is indeed a mention
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aaronpk terminology nitpick: the "mention" is just the HTTP request containing source and target URLs
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KartikPrabhu that is the bare minimum for webmention to work
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: hmmm yeah.
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aaronpk the source URL may be a comment marked up with microformats
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KartikPrabhu I should say "that the target can verify that it is indeed linked"
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Loqi yea
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JonathanNeal aaronpk: a mention is just the request and has nothing to do with whether the source or target exist? Or whether the source has certain content?
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aaronpk JonathanNeal: so you are correct that without microformats, you don't have a lot to go on when rendering a comment
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aaronpk JonathanNeal: yeah, you may receive a webmention request from an invalid URL for example
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aaronpk or from a URL that returns 404
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JonathanNeal you are using mention and webmention interchangably, right?
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aaronpk yea
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JonathanNeal whew, okay.
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JonathanNeal So, a mention is the ping. What is done with the ping is something different? What is that called?
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aaronpk hm, processing? handling?
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KartikPrabhu handling incoming webmentions is what I have heard used
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JonathanNeal So for all colloquial purposes, the handling is known as a (web)mention, and the formalized protocol for “processing” or “handling” is part of the (web)mention spec?
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gRegor` or the source URL can return 410, if the content was removed. :)
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: the notification is called a "webmention" (similar to a pingback) and has a spec as to what parameters it needs. The handling is not really formalised I think.
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aaronpk the handling is all documented at http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#How_to_display
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aaronparecki.com created /podcast (+1135) "stub with notes from conversation with [[User:Anomalily.net]] about the inability to switch podcast hosting providers" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: that is the display aspect. the handling of the actual webmention is here: http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#Implementation_Notes
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aaronpk oh thanks
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: note that the handling is an implementation left to the receiver and a common flow is documented at that link
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KartikPrabhu one could use webmention in other ways (which has been done)
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gRegor` Interestingly, the introduction on webmention.org, #4 says "...and then includes this information on her site."
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aaronpk probably due to it being based off of pingback
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@WardCunningham RT @benwerd: Watching @WardCunningham demonstrate federated wikis! #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/482947392379949057/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/484199253888495616)
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snarfed JonathanNeal: re webmention validator, try https://checkmention.appspot.com/
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JonathanNeal snarfed: awesome!
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: wow! never knew of that. is it on /webmention?
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KartikPrabhu or should it be?
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snarfed probably. i'll add it
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snarfed kbs wrote it
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snarfed yup, it's already on /webmention
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JonathanNeal Okay, time to start hacking on http://jonneal.com/ it will take a while just to get access. Thanks for all of your help so far.
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: where?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention##checkmention
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snarfed JonathanNeal: gl!
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KartikPrabhu should it not be in "How to Test webmentions" ?
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: apologies... i was looking at /comment :P
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: np!
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KartikPrabhu judas priest! my note failed some XSS test and the "verification" test! https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/test-note-totally-te
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KartikPrabhu I have some hacking to do
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KartikPrabhu anyone know a way to do webmention author verification?
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@kudoshunsaku RT @benwerd: Watching @WardCunningham demonstrate federated wikis! #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/482947392379949057/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/484205288086450178)
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@serard_ RT @benwerd: Watching @WardCunningham demonstrate federated wikis! #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/482947392379949057/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/484205970378481664)
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tommorris aaronpk: I post to my site via SMS
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@JonMLevine @ryutaroyada FYI RT @benwerd: Watching @WardCunningham demonstrate federated wikis! #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/482947392379949057/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/484212980381265921)
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orchard.roaming-initiative.com edited /2014/Demos (+1351) "/* Phillip */ Provide a bit of clarification and expansion on my demo" (view diff)
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: when we've talked about author verification before, the obvious thing was to accept mentions that come from only {the author's domain OR bridgy}
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JonathanNeal Do webmention replies support replies to replies?
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: how do you know the author's domain?
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: they could. depending on how you parse the "source" page for microformats
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kylewm like, u-url of the post is the same domain as the source of the webmention
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: that would mess up bridgy wouldn't it?
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kylewm that's why bridgy is an exception
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JonathanNeal Gah, protocol-less URLs are still not allowed when specifying authentication provider.
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: one could parse the 'source' page for comments and then inlcude them as nested comments
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: hmmm me does not like this exception buisness
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: also what if the post does not have u-url?
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KartikPrabhu i.e. no mf2 mark up
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kylewm I think that's basically the same as having a u-url that points to the current page
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kylewm (in that it can't redirect you to somewhere else)
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KartikPrabhu hmm will have to play with that
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@notarianni RT @benwerd: Watching @WardCunningham demonstrate federated wikis! #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/482947392379949057/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/484223037169221633)
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JonathanNeal I really enjoyed the Jonathan Ive test https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/test-note-totally-te
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cweiske.de edited /distributed-indieauth (+131) "/* Level 2: Choose your own authorization server */" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /authorization-endpoint (+464) "endpoint discovery" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://pdxmob.com/cancelled-homebrew-website-club-pdx/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014 (pingback)
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cweiske.de edited /indieauth.com (+221) "move provider status to indieauth.com page" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /IndieAuth (-105) "move provider status to indieauth.com page" (view diff)
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cweiske aaronpk, see the question on http://indiewebcamp.com/authorization-endpoint#Endpoint_Discovery
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binbasti !tell bnvk yes, that'd be great. i was traveling a lot during the last couple of days, but i should be more available again next week latest
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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Loqi [mention] http://www.christydena.com/2014/07/i-am-a-citizen-of-the-indieweb-d/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.christydena.com/2014/07/i-am-a-citizen-of-the-indieweb-d/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Wordpress (webmention)
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@christydena I am a Citizen of the IndieWeb! :D http://www.christydena.com/2014/07/i-am-a-citizen-of-the-indieweb-d/ (twitter.com/_/status/484284441301250048)
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@IndiraReynaert RT @christydena: I am a Citizen of the IndieWeb! :D http://www.christydena.com/2014/07/i-am-a-citizen-of-the-indieweb-d/ (twitter.com/_/status/484285359199911936)
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@OnTheWebz RT @t: Thanks @mrflix for figuring out CSS for an #indieweb People Focused Mobile Communication! Screenshot & source: http://tantek.com/2014/180/t2/css-indieweb-people-focused-communication (twitter.com/_/status/484290393937154048)
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@adactio Welcome, @ChristyDena. http://www.christydena.com/2014/07/i-am-a-citizen-of-the-indieweb-d/ (twitter.com/_/status/484295471641690113)
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@badgermind RT @adactio: Welcome, @ChristyDena. http://www.christydena.com/2014/07/i-am-a-citizen-of-the-indieweb-d/ (twitter.com/_/status/484296492434595840)
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@toobdesign IndieWeb - own your content: http://indiewebify.me (twitter.com/_/status/484297134548992000)
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@dangillmor For @Scobleizer the choices are among huge, centralized services. Too bad he's not encouraging @IndieWebCamp https://plus.google.com/+Scobleizer/posts/ZSJzgnvKaWy (twitter.com/_/status/484297423624613888)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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@shyduroff RT @dangillmor: For @Scobleizer the choices are among huge, centralized services. Too bad he's not encouraging @IndieWebCamp https://t.co/… (twitter.com/_/status/484303147599667200)
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@mathewi RT @dangillmor: For @Scobleizer the choices are among huge, centralized services. Too bad he's not encouraging @IndieWebCamp https://t.co/… (twitter.com/_/status/484321621151604736)
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petermolnar !tell snarfed bridgy is acting strange ocasionally, for example this https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/facebook/728384706/10152507671499707/10152507671499707_10152507747144707 shows up with the content instead of the username as comment user on the receiver wordpress site ( see: http://hardergeneration.org/art/krakazyabra-art-by-maryana-kopylova/ )
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petermolnar most of the webmentions are fine apart from a few
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi snarfed: petermolnar left you a message 19 minutes ago: bridgy is acting strange ocasionally, for example this https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/facebook/728384706/10152507671499707/10152507671499707_10152507747144707 shows up with the content instead of the username as comment user on the receiver wordpress site ( see: http://hardergeneration.org/art/krakazyabra-art-by-maryana-kopylova/ )
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snarfed petermolnar: you're right, i've seen that sometimes elsewhere too. sometimes it's because they don't have https://github.com/acegiak/Semantic-Linkbacks installed, but it looks like that site does have it...?
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petermolnar it does
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snarfed petermolnar: otherwise, i'm not sure, and i think bridgy's mf2 markup is right. details: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/facebook/728384706/10152507671499707/10152507671499707_10152507747144707
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petermolnar hm
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petermolnar it's a bug in the plugin then, right, I'll try to dig deeper
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snarfed thanks! let me know if i can help
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petermolnar !tell pfefferle !tell acegiak it's definately a bug in the plugin:
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petermolnar http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/facebook/728384706/10152507671499707/10152507671499707_10152507677194707 vs
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petermolnar http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/facebook/728384706/10152507671499707/10152507671499707_10152507747144707
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petermolnar one shows up correctly, the other does not on the wordpress side
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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petermolnar eh, and I paste the same url
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petermolnar no, I didn't
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petermolnar needs a break
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pfefferle petermolnar do you use the indieweb plugin or the individual plugins?
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Loqi pfefferle: petermolnar left you a message 3 minutes ago: !tell acegiak it's definately a bug in the plugin:
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petermolnar the indieweb plugin
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petermolnar should I switch to the git mainline? :)
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pfefferle ok, the plugin is way behind… need to update it! thanks for the reminder!
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@MarcDrummond I’m working to get my site to the place where I can do this. It’s challenging. RT @adactio: Welcome, @ChristyDena. http://www.christydena.com/2014/07/i-am-a-citizen-of-the-indieweb-d/ (twitter.com/_/status/484354539374776320)
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@ProgWithFC RT @benwerd: Watching @WardCunningham demonstrate federated wikis! #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/482947392379949057/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/484357196118261761)
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@scottros @t @kevinmarks is there any post or document listing/summarizing the #indiewebcamp demos/projects from NY side? Wld love to link. Thx (twitter.com/_/status/484362257283837953)
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GWG pfefferle, can a plugin install other plugins? I have never looked.
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pfefferle sadly not…
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pfefferle the indieweb one includes all the single plugins and require it
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pfefferle it would be much better to have for example dependencies or something like that
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pfefferle so the indieweb plugin would automatically install all the required plugins
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GWG I wonder if there is middle ground
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@bear @scottros All the NYC demos were posted into IRC as they happened - there is a link at the top of http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Demos cc @kevinmarks @t (twitter.com/_/status/484363140764008448)
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aaronpk tommorris: ooh cool! you should add "via SMS" on those posts :)
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GWG pfefferle what about a guided install? That is what Jeremy Zilar was working on?
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tantek yeah we need to expand the IRC log of NYC demos into actual sections/paragraphs of descriptions with links on the wiki
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pfefferle That was my first thought… and it would be much simpler...
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pfefferle perhaps I will switch to that again
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tantek I just found it fastest to quickly type stuff into IRC while the demos were happening
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GWG Gives more control.
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tantek pfefferle! great to see you on video during IWC 2014 :D
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pfefferle tantek :D
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GWG pfefferle, I do have a plugin question while I have you.
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GWG The via links in the semantic plugin.. what if I wanted to change their appearance or placement?
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pfefferle tantek yeah, was nice to see you guys too!
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pfefferle GWG hmmm that is a good question!
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GWG I was thinking about it and trying to come up with a suggestion.
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pfefferle with remove_filter you can remove it
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pfefferle and then you will be able to add your custom one
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pfefferle the same way I added it
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GWG I had this idea about displaying the via in the comment meta
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pfefferle GWG yes, sure. simply run remove_filter('comment_text', array( 'SemanticLinkbacksPlugin', 'comment_text_add_cite'), 11, 3)
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pfefferle and than add it to wherever you want
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pfefferle GWG like add_filter('entry_meta', array( 'SemanticLinkbacksPlugin', 'comment_text_add_cite'), 11, 3)
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pfefferle or so
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GWG I don't like to disable functionality without thinking if it is the best way
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pfefferle you can check if the filter or action is available first
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GWG Yes
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pfefferle http://codex.wordpress.org/Function_Reference/has_action http://codex.wordpress.org/Function_Reference/has_filter
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pfefferle GWG does that answer your question?
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GWG Puts it in perspective, yes
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pfefferle ;)
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GWG But my mind just jumped to theme design thoughts again. I have another idea for a change.
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pfefferle let us hear!
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tommorris aaronpk: I do.
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tommorris aaronpk: http://tommorris.org/posts/8547 ;)
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GWG Common practice is to use content-(format) for the different formats. I think I could switch to just having template parts for the differing headers and footers and a single content file to stitch them together.
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GWG I keep trying to simplify the code
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kylewm tommorris: that's awesome
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kylewm does it go through email? SMS -> email -> post?
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pfefferle GWG I am not sure if it simplyfies the code… because you have even more files in the end… if we assume that every file has a different header AND footer…
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tommorris kylewm: nope, it goes SMS -> HTTP POST webhook -> post.
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pfefferle GWG from a DRY perspective sure…
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GWG Not really. Because in the absence of a specific file it falls back to generic.
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GWG And most post formats except standard use the untitled style.
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tommorris kylewm: Twilio can be set up to send you HTTP POST containing a blob of XML containing the content of an SMS. You can reply in the response body of the XML
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tommorris kylewm: when I text my blog post number, I get a response back containing the URL of the post.
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pfefferle GWG that depends on the taste of the designer/coder
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GWG So in reality, three cases.
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kylewm tommorris: that's really cool, i had no idea
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tommorris encourages people to play with Twilio - it’s pretty neat
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tantek looks for /Twilio
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GWG But just as many as content-(format)
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tommorris Especially if you can find someone who works for Twilio - they’ll often be able to give you $25 worth of credit if you are hacking on something
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rascul twilio keeps emailing me they want to support me!
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tantek.com created /twilio (+20) "r" (view diff)
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GWG Will play with the idea more.
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tantek tommorris - now that's worth capturing on /Twilio - please stub with that!
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tantek and while you're at it, perhaps /sms too?
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tantek since you've actually implemented it :)
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tommorris so, the grand plan which I haven’t had time to do is to do Dodgeball style checkins via Twilio.
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pfefferle GWG sure, I am curious how it will perform...
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bret tantek re: the reader subscription list stuff from yesterday. I understand your idea much better now and am totally onboard with the idea of using h-cards instead of the old style import/export patterns
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tommorris I actually had reason to use Twilio recently - I went to France and had no roaming on my iPhone. I wanted to post something to my site, so I could actually post it from my £10 Nokia 1000 phone while roaming in France.
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bret an outline model is not necessary here. tagging/category is much more flexible
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bret we are people, not data feeds ;)
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tommorris.org uploaded /File:tommorris_sms_interface.png "Example of sending SMSes to tommorris.org"
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tantek bret - yes there was always an impedance mismatch between outlines and user-centric methods of grouping people etc.
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tommorris.org created /Twilio (+1229) "expanding" (view diff)
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tommorris tantek: there you go. ;)
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tommorris.org edited /Twilio (+6) "screenshot doesn't need to be quite so large" (view diff)
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tantek Tommorris see also http://indiewebcamp.com/create
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tommorris will upload mine later
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aaronpk tommorris: OH awesome!!
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tommorris As a posting interface goes, it’s fairly minimal but widely implemented.
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tommorris I’ve made 29 posts via SMS, incidentally.
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tommorris Or so the Twilio history functionality tells me.
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tantek tommorris - do your posts say when they're made via SMS?
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tommorris tantek: yep.
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tommorris I should probably mention that
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Loqi I agree
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tommorris.org edited /Twilio (+183) ""via sms" example" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /create (+450) "add Ferocity / tommorris create interface" (view diff)
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tommorris thanks tantek
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tommorris that screenshot needs updating at some point. as does my posting interface. ;)
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erinjorichey.com edited /site-deaths (+351) "/* Upcoming */" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-july-2-2014 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-02-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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tantek woot!
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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aaronpk just to mention it again, I can't host in PDX tonight
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bret.io edited /Events (+9) "Moved primary 2014 indiewebcamp event to past events" (view diff)
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tantek dietrich? can you host at #mozpdx?
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Loqi [mention] http://hapgood.us/2014/07/02/indiewebcamp/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/why (pingback)
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tantek any other backup Portland hosts for tonight? Bret?
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bret im a bit burnt out to host another tonight with os bridge all last week, indiewebcamp during the weekend and then code for portland org meetings this week
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bret :(
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tantek bret - aww - understand
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tantek bret - though I'll point out that even Minneapolis is pulling together a 2nd HWC meetup tonight!
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bret virtual hack sessions in the evening this weekend though!
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bret :)
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bret yeah! Minneapolis++
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aaronpk alternate plan is pick a bar and just meet there
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tantek aaronpk - makes sense!
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bret lol esri pdx is such an active tech community space
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aaronpk :) we try
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aaronpk http://calagator.org/events/search?query=esripdx
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aaronpk this is relevant http://www.dancingastronaut.com/2014/07/soundcloud-continues-push-boundaries-privacy-policies-enables-universal-screen-monitor-terminate-accounts/
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tommorris if only there were a way to put audio on the web. some kind of tag you could use to include an audio player, perhaps.
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tantek aaronpk, perhaps a good addition to /Soundcloud ?
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aaronparecki.com created /Soundcloud (+23) "r" (view diff)
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@casebot Amber Case was blogged about in: #indiewebcamp | Hapgood: Not only does it focus on building stuff over talkin... http://hapgood.us/2014/07/02/indiewebcamp/ (twitter.com/_/status/484385483351269376)
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JonathanNeal Now, if there were an indieweb music project, that I could definitely use.
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aaronpk tantek: what's the normal header for things like that? Issues?
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@holden Because @jimgroom asked me too -- a report on #indiewebcamp http://hapgood.us/2014/07/02/indiewebcamp/ (twitter.com/_/status/484386099179974657)
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tantek aaronpk - issues are things that are resolvable
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aaronpk ha
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tantek things like that where there is outright misbehavior - "Criticism"
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@Scobleizer @dangillmor I love @indiewebcamp but the idea that it will compete with any of the social networks is just laughable. (twitter.com/_/status/484386265173721090)
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tantek hahahaha scobleizer - you're laughable ;)
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aaronpk hahaha
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tantek aaronpk - e.g. see: http://indiewebcamp.com/Facebook#Criticism
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aaronpk i'm gonna send him a 'yo'
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aaronpk benwerd you should too
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tantek let's bombard scobleizer with POSSE replies with permalinks back to our originals on our own sites
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tantek any of you implement POSSE to Yo yet?
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tantek is not even sure what that means.
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aaronpk ...i can *manually* posse to yo...
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benwerd I actually was going to ... and then realized I had other things to write
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aaronpk not sure that has the same effect
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@agoracollective @brennannovak thanks for sharing and aggregating at #IndieWebCamp in our space! (-ms) (twitter.com/_/status/484386652648144896)
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benwerd There is a Yo API
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tantek thinks it might involve sniffing the http traffic from the Yo app to the Yo servers
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aaronpk ...the yo blog is hosted on medium
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aaronpk https://medium.com/@YoAppStatus/yo-developers-api-e7f2f0ec5c3c
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bret tantek: isnt the point that we dont have to compete?
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benwerd yos
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tantek bret - for now, yes.
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tantek step 1: use the silos for distribution to grow the indieweb
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tantek step 2: make peer-to-peer indieweb interactions *better* than silo based plumbing/UI
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tantek step 3: braindrain leaders from silos to the indieweb
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tantek step 4: generations make the transition
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tantek step 5: press etc. notices silo traffic is flatlining - cool kids are fleeing
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bret other than trolling positive projects and communities, what does scobleizer do?
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tantek step 6: silos implode (see previous site-deaths, Orkut, MySpace, Friendster, etc.)
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tantek bret - every community has a court jester or two ;)
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aaronpk "Some example use cases: A blog can Yo the readers whenever a new post is published. Imagine getting a Yo From PRODUCTHUNT."
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tantek.com created /Yo (+103) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /yo (+16) "r" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - please add URL and that API quote to /Yo
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tantek what is yo?
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Loqi Yo is an app for sending your contacts the text "Yo" http://indiewebcamp.com/Yo
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aaronparecki.com edited /Yo (+387) (view diff)
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@benwerd @Scobleizer I love the World Wide Web but the idea that it will compete with America OnLine is just laughable :) @dangillmor @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/484389163194527744)
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aaronpk benwerd++
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Loqi benwerd has 28 karma
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tantek lol
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tantek nicely done benwerd
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aaronparecki.com edited /SoundCloud (+305) "add link to article" (view diff)
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benwerd indieweb event w/ fb posse is up for homebrew btw
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tantek yay!!!
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@ShaneHudson "Maybe a long overdue re-flowering of blogs and independent websites is imminent." @zeldman Oh I do hope so http://www.zeldman.com/2014/07/02/netdiver-returns/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/484391034320076800)
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tantek benwerd - add to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-02-homebrew-website-club#URLs ?
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benwerd on it
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@timmmmyboy Great post by @holden on #indiewebcamp and the pragmatic voice of that movement right now. http://hapgood.us/2014/07/02/indiewebcamp/ (twitter.com/_/status/484391731988021248)
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werd.io edited /events/2014-07-02-homebrew-website-club (+66) "/* URLs */" (view diff)
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gRegor` benwerd++
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Loqi benwerd has 29 karma
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tantek " it is far from the “And once they see the power of my code, the people will rise up” bullcrap that typically dominates this set of conversations. " - love it!
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tantek http://hapgood.us/2014/07/02/indiewebcamp/
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aaronpk that's a really good post
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aaronpk "People here weren’t allergic to making money, but they weren’t high off their own pitches either."
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tantek !tell binbasti FYI I got the Moz App Manifest docs to link to the W3C Manifest for Web Apps spec. Making some progress.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegor` Scoble on Facebook, "Filtered feed. Truth is this is a mixed bag. For me it's a HUGE deal because I have put thousands of hours into tuning my feed . . . " https://plus.google.com/+Scobleizer/posts/ZSJzgnvKaWy
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tantek "Every presentation I saw focused *heavily* on user experience, whether it was on IndieBox, or Known, or IndieAuth." - well done IndieWebCamp Portland!
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gRegor` Imagine if he'd spent, say, 1/10th of that time on his own site.
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gRegor` Someday when Facebook screws him over, he'll have lost thousands of hours.
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tantek gRegor`: perhaps start a "Apologists" section on /Facebook and cite that Scoble commentary?
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tantek (and the irony of it being posted on Google+)
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gRegor` It's on FB too apparently
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aaronpk there is no password reset functionality in Yo apparentyl
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gRegor` Man, I'm loving this new Teahouse theme on the wiki.
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tantek aaronpk - is there a place on /2014 where we're collecting blog posts about IWC 2014? like that one from holden?
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gRegor` Going to submit some small tweaks, but overall it's great.
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aaronpk ooh good call. isn't there a stub section already?
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tantek or even blog posts just before/during?
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aaronpk oh i'm thinking of the HWC event page stubs
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tantek I volunteer http://tantek.com/2014/179/b1/indiewebcamp-thoughts-before-gathering as tribute ;)
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@jdp23 a good summary from @holden on #indiewebcamp: http://hapgood.us/2014/07/02/indiewebcamp/ (twitter.com/_/status/484394123034492928)
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gRegor` I didn't see a blog section on /2014 when I wrote a post beforehand.
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/2014#Blog
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aaronpk it's just empty
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gRegor` Ah, cool
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014 (+139) "/* Blog */ add 2 blog posts about 2014" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /2014 (+82) "/* Blog */ my pre-event post" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Facebook (+19) "/* Articles */ + Apologists section" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Facebook (+571) "/* Apologists */ Robert Scoble commentary" (view diff)
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aaronpk i'm not sure I like calling him an apologist
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aaronpk i'd rather frame that positively
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tantek making excuses for FB is apologism
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donpdonp consider 'apologist' an insulting, inflamatory term
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tantek what is an apologist?
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aaronpk you know how we often can gain insight from observing features of silos
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gRegor` I can see it being inflammatory, yeah
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tantek sounds pretty neutral though: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apologist
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gRegor` Apologia? Heh
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aaronpk this is basically scoble sharing what he likes about facebook, and what it will take to find a system to replace it
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aaronpk i don't see anything wrong with that
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gRegor` is fine with another term. Just used the suggested heading
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tantek aaronpk - ok - how about "Advocates" instead then?
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aaronpk better :)
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aaronpk at least that's not a negative term
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gregorlove.com edited /Facebook (-1) "/* Apologists */ => Advocates" (view diff)
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tantek if his post is framed positively then it's advocacy
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tantek rather than apologism (which is making excuses)
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aaronpk true
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aaronpk i'd still rather just cite all the things he mentioned as benefits of facebook as part of the UX research we are doing
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tantek both are possible. better to be accurate
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aaronpk but this is better for now :)
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tantek yes - to citing UX advantages in every silo
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tantek that makes a good challenge / todo list
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aaronpk exactly
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aaronpk and then is easy to demonstrate when someone here does something with better UX on their own site
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gRegor` I was just surprised by the face he's put thousands of hours into it.
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peat I'm raising the flag to mention that I'm digging into the Teahouse theme today. Fixing links, a few styles, merging in some work that was done a couple of days ago (skinny, aaronpk, myself).
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gRegor` Perhaps a bit of hyperbole, though
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aaronpk peat: yay!
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Loqi yay!
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gRegor` peat: Nice!
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donpdonp gRegor`: i was trying to figure that out too. i assume he meant hours of adding and muting the people that contribute to what he wants to read about.
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gRegor` peat: I was going to suggest setting the <p> margin to be top and bottom instead of just bottom. Spaces it out better from some other text with no margins, like the "See [[Main Article]]" links.
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peat This includes the original logo assets (AI files) and such. :)
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tantek.com edited /2014 (+158) "/* Blog */ date, author, cite" (view diff)
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peat gRegor`: Right on. I'm totally open to playing around with it. :)
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gRegor` peat++
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Loqi peat has 40 karma
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gRegor` All: try out the new wiki theme in progress http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/redesign
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donpdonp http://example.com/indiewebcamp.css is a very interesting idea
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aaronpk haha it was a hack cause the #mediawiki people didn't have any idea why user stylesheets weren't working
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peat I love the local CSS hack.
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gRegor` peat: Is there already a wiki page with all the different wiki components to test against? Like all headings, paragraphs, <code>, <pre>, etc?
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peat gRegor`: No, not yet. A lot of the stuff I'm stumbling over has to do with wiki controls (eg: tabbed navigation) and fun with microformat markup and nesting.
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peat gRegor`: It's all been pretty easy to fix, though.
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gRegor` Cool
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aaronpk peat: depolyed!
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aaronpk feel free to document all those on /wiki/redesign or in github issues
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tantek wait what is deployed?
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aaronpk peat's PR
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peat aaronpk: I don't have a test environment set up on my laptop, so .. uhh. yeah. those are all changes from the other day, so I think they should work. Haha.
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tantek How do I see it? I'm refreshing indiewebcamp.com and don't see it!
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peat tantek: Check out the "Teahouse" theme in Appearances, in your perferences.
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peat s/perferences/preferences
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Loqi peat meant to say: tantek: Check out the "Teahouse" theme in Appearances, in your preferences.
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@Enderle @benwerd @Scobleizer @dangillmor @indiewebcamp and what they really need to worry abuot is MSN. That'll kill everything! (twitter.com/_/status/484401602313207808)
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donpdonp http://indiewebcamp.com/?useskin=teahouse
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peat That too.
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aaronparecki.com edited /wiki/redesign (+52) "add headers" (view diff)
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aaronpk tantek: also see http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/redesign
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kylewm tantek: when you were talking about having a reading on your own site (our own sites), are you thinking my main view when I log into my site would be a stream of my friends, a la social media?
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kylewm reader*
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tantek kylewm - a la original Twitter
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#Early_User_Interface
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gRegor` misses old school Twitter
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kylewm I wasn't on twitter then
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kylewm how was it better?
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kylewm I might be in the minority of thinking their UI improvements have generally been good
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tantek kylewm, some good, others, nothing but distractions designed to increase traffic, visits, clicks etc. all that usual free-service-keep-you-looking-at-ads crap.
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gRegor` kylewm: I just miss some of the simplicity. Multiple clicks to get from my stream to someone's profile now
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gRegor` another click to see "Tweets and Replies" instead of just whatever selection Twitter chooses on their profile
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gRegor` the old-old ability to choose whether to see others' conversations even if you only followed one half of it.
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gRegor` In the early days, half of how I found new interesting people to follow was catching half a conversation and checking out who the other person was.
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gRegor` It used to be a feature you could select to see only conversations where you followed both parties, or "all" at-replies.
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kylewm I remember that
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cweiske aaronpk, https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/commit/15ef73ef67888a64439cf18603ff2ae4919f1adb#diff-dfd2f06c782a10d2bca6cf66da50c7aeR94 - "check that it responds with an "IndieAuth: authorization_endpoint" header"
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cweiske that's not defined anywhere in the wiki
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kylewm I love the work they've done to try to show conversations together
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kylewm they were so hard to follow before
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gRegor` Agreed, those are great
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gRegor` And definitely informing several indieweb UIs
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kylewm even if it is weird that things suddenly appear in chronological order
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bret cweiske its a wiki, add it!
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cweiske bret, the indieauth protocol is so underdefined that I don't know if it really should be in there or not
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kevinmarks.com edited /events/2014-07-02-homebrew-website-club (+41) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /authorization-endpoint (+182) "/* Creating an Authorization Endpoint */ talk about header" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com created /Template:kevinmarks (+109) "Created page with "<span class="h-card">{{sparkline|http://www.kevinmarks.com/km.jpg}}[[User:Kevinmarks.com|Kevin Marks" target="_blank">User:Kevinmarks.com|Kevin" target="_blank">http://www.kevinmarks.com/km.jpg}}[[User:Kevinmarks.com|Kevin Marks]]</span>"" (view diff)
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@npm_tweets webmention-testpinger 0.3.3 https://www.npmjs.org/package/webmention-testpinger A tool to ping your site with a variety of webmention markup (twitter.com/_/status/484411613270003712)
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bret cweiske I dont know either :/
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cweiske ok, I've added the header to indieauth-openid
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cweiske "support is coming soon" http://fotostore.cweiske.de/screenshots/2014-07-02%20indieauth%20coming%20soon.png
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@schnarfed @jasongreen great! just install http://t.co/EVVSu5Zq55. or if you’re adventurous, http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress#webmention has more advanced… (twitter.com/_/status/484414861183430657)
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kylewm.com edited /Twitter (+506) "/* Early User Interface */ added gRegor's reminscings about early UI" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /Twitter (-82) "/* Features */ removed duplicate link, oops" (view diff)
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@schnarfed @jasongreen (that’s for likes and comments. if you want to publish, try SemPress or uf2: http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress#microformats) (twitter.com/_/status/484416350845018112)
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aaronpk cweiske: oh good call, i think that's cause it was all in progress on my test implementation of indieauth.com and aaronparecki.com
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cweiske aaronpk, I hope that indieauth automatically redirects me to my auth endpoint when there is only that one on my homepage
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aaronpk that's kind of a tough call
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aaronpk if you specify exactly one authorization_endpoint and no other providers (github, sms, email, pgp, etc) then yes that probably makes sense
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aaronpk however, what happens if you change your authorization endpoint?
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aaronpk if indieauth.com has to make an http request every time to your site, it ends up feeling slow and you get annoyed
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aaronpk that's why I made it cache the list of providers and require clicking "re-scan" in order to find any changes from your site
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cweiske when logging in via openid, I don't even get a login prompt since my openid server stores the login cookie for a week
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cweiske with indieauth.com I would have to select my provider
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aaronpk I would be more inclined to do something like that
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aaronpk where indieauth.com would store a cookie and skip even validating with any provider
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aaronpk but it would have to be based on the combination of client_id, redirect_uri and scope, so that if a new app wants to authorize you it would prompt you still
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aaronpk also keep in mind that this is an optimization being done at the indieauth client level, so every indieauth client may behave slightly differently for you
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aaronpk e.g. https://quill.p3k.io doesn't use indieauth.com, it implements an indieauth client directly so it behaves quite differently
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cweiske yup
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aaronpk so while these are good suggestions, the end result is that will solidify indieauth.com as the best implementation of an indieauth client, causing more people to use it, making it look more and more like a silo
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cweiske you can provide a clean indieauth protocol specification to help preventing that
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aaronpk yes, but it's still a ton of work to build one
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aaronpk especially getting the UX parts right
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peat aaronpk: did you write up anything about the GnuPG auth feature? Blog style, that I can point people at?
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: re: indie music iirc chloeweil was doing something with music-data on IWC-East
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aaronpk peat: i should do that
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aaronpk I did that for TOTP, so I should have one for this
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peat aaronpk: I'm unreasonably excited about it. Sig verification is an awesome idea.
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@aardrian RT @ShaneHudson "overdue re-flowering of blogs and independent websites is imminent." @zeldman I do hope so http://www.zeldman.com/2014/07/02/netdiver-returns/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/484421417120043008)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/schnarfed/484416350845018112/484421562443902976 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress#microformats (webmention)
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aaronpk the feedback i'm hearing from GPG people is they all assume i'm doing something with key servers and checking the contents of the key and such... it's really much simpler than that and I hope that's ok
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rascul why would you check the contents of the key?
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aaronpk i don't know
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aaronpk someone asked if i was verifying the key had a matching email address
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michielbdejong keyservers are a double check, as far as i understand. If someone gets access to my webserver, they can publish a new public key there
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michielbdejong but then my real public key would still be tracked by keyservers
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gRegor` Yeah, I think MITM is a slight concern if the key isn't available over https
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cweiske I'd have expected that I only have to put the key hash on my homepage
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michielbdejong as long as nobody takes control over my webserver, the keyserver can be left out of the equation
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michielbdejong assuming I serve my website over https, yes
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aaronpk how would I know what key servers to trust?
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michielbdejong they're linked
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michielbdejong they update each other
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aaronpk i assume you need the private key in order to make changes to your key in the keyserver network?
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rascul taking over my web server isn't going to matter, my private key is not there
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michielbdejong you would need a revoke key to change it
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michielbdejong you can add a competing key though, i think
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michielbdejong i blogged about it here last year https://unhosted.org/decentralize/17/Cryptography.html
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rascul one that would match my public key?
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cweiske same email address
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rascul sure, but it wouldn't work for signature verification
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michielbdejong rascul: if i get control of your webserver, then i can publish a new public key which i generated, and to which i (not you) have the private key
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rascul michielbdejong oh now i see what you're saying
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michielbdejong so that's what keyservers are for
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rascul well my public key is on keybase so that could be useful
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aaronpk these keyservers are basically a federation, yea?
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michielbdejong also, if https is compromised, the information on keyservers would still be trustable
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michielbdejong s/if/because :)
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Loqi michielbdejong meant to say: also, because :) https is compromised, the information on keyservers would still be trustable
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: awesome
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gRegor` michielbdejong: I thought some of these keyservers themselves weren't even https, though
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michielbdejong aaronpk: yeah, that's how i understand it. this is where someone explained it to me https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/unhosted/b1irZwo4HC4/UOszCJYzbSQJ
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aaronpk interesting
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michielbdejong gRegor`: oh, that would be weird. don't know about that, though.
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aaronpk "This is why PGP keyservers are networked for synchrony. If one has it, they all have it. Publishing one's fingerprint far and wide (say, in the .signature appended to one's e-mails) makes it more difficult to substitute a public key with a fake."
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michielbdejong yeah
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kylewm JonathanNeal: if you havent seen http://chloeweil.com/summer/ it is pretty incredible
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aaronpk so basically what i'm hearing is this:
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gRegor` michielbdejong: e.g. http://pgp.mit.edu/, though looks like https is available there too
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aaronpk if someone has access to your web server, they can sign in as you. whether that's by swapping out your public key, changing the link to a github profile or email address, etc
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aaronpk GPG has a mechanism to protect this, a way to distribute keys all over so that you have more places to verify them
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aaronpk none of the other methods do
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aaronpk so me implementing more of the GPG stuff has little benefit for indieauth.com because there is still the potential to attack via other methods
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gRegor` I think so. With the important caveat that if your key is available over http, they don't have to compromise your server to impersonate you, just MITM your site. I'd be concerned about someone new to indieweb / crypto putting a GPG key on their non-secure site.
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rascul aaronpk well it's still another mechanism that doesn't rely on a third party service
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kylewm gRegor`: that's true of all the indieauth methods right?
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michielbdejong aaronpk: good point
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cweiske aaronpk, even if you use the website to lookup the key via its hash, the attacker can still change the hash on the website
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gRegor` I think it's beneficial. If someone can compromise your site, they could just as easily update your rel-me links
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gRegor` kylewm: Also good point. :)
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cweiske what you needed is inputting the email address
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cweiske because that would not need any homepage that can be compromised
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gRegor` Hm
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cweiske which is diametral to indiewebcamp that wants the homepage for everything
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aaronpk what would make sense is adding stuff like "it looks like you're tryign to use a new provider, we'll need an extra check before you can continue"
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gRegor` TLS all the things
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rascul yes spdy, hsts, fs, sni and all that good stuff
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aaronpk or "last time you signed in as github.com/aaronpk, you'll need to re-verify your domain in order to change to signing in as github.com/attacker"
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rascul acronyms are fun
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aaronpk or instead of "re-verify" it's requiring a second factor
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cweiske aaronpk, doesn't work. because the attacker changes all second factors on the website
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aaronpk but if you've signed in on indieauth.com before, it would use the last trusted info
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cweiske which means you have to keep two versions
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cweiske the current re-scanned one and the old "trusted" one
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aaronpk yes
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cweiske it gets more complicated with every thought
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aaronpk anyway I think I'm sufficiently convinced that there's no need for me to bother with gpg keyservers
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aaronpk and at the point where I am worried about preventing the attack where someone takes over the website, I will continue to think about it further
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gRegor` yeah, I think it adds a lot of complexity for not much value
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aaronpk for now, it is a known quantity that gaining access to the web server will allow the attacker to impersonate the site owner
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aaronpk of course signing in is not the only attack someone could do. they could update past posts and re-send webmentions to change the contents on the target sites, fake new posts, etc etc
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tantek aaronpk - exactly. as soon as someone has control of someone's server i.e. through their web host control panel etc. that's a much worse compromise than indieauth
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Loqi [mention] https://brennannovak.com/notes/492 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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@schnarfed @jasongreen great! you can definitely do it automatically: https://www.brid.gy/about#webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/484431755269529600)
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bear in the realm of GPG web of trust - you *must* not trust a public key (hashed or otherwise) unless you trust the people who have signed the key and you verify that by pulling down from a key server the full key
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JonathanNeal Would someone help me understand why indiewebcamp might require I re-authenticate after a relatively short period of inactivity? Am I perceiving things incorrectly? Or is there a great rhyme or reason to this?
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aaronpk it's cause i can't find the mediawiki setting for it
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aaronpk if you go to your user preferences there's a "keep me signed in" checkbox and you'll never have to sign in again
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: oh! so you either log in everytime or stay logged in forever!
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aaronpk 6 months i think actually
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KartikPrabhu maybe the wiki should be upgraded to newer media-wiki ?
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aaronpk yeah that's a thing
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aaronpk tons of plugins to verify though
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KartikPrabhu says this with no idea of how hard it might be
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aaronpk wonders if he should also attempt to upgrade the microformats wiki at the same time
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JonathanNeal Would there be a secure way to login without authenticating off site? Like, could my site contain its own session token that tells you I am indeed who I say I am?
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aaronpk JonathanNeal: that's basically the gpg auth
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gRegor` ben_thatmustbeme was working on upgrading the mediawiki version, I believe?
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cweiske JonathanNeal, my indieauth-openid auth provider does this
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cweiske or rather the openid server behind
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cweiske I login once
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JonathanNeal That seems promising then. I would much prefer to put my own site’s login behind lock and key, and let every other site be password free without even selecting an additional authentication method.
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JonathanNeal cweiske: brilliant
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cweiske and whenever I have to re-authenticate, it simply uses the cookie stored in my browser
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cweiske never asking me for anything
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cweiske JonathanNeal, I also like to have the auth on my side and don't like selecting auth methods
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cweiske which is why I wrote my own indieauth implementation :)
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kylewm cweiske: when you log into the wiki it will still send you to indieauth.com and give you the option to authenticate with your own authorization_endpoint provider?
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tantek cweiske++ for writing his own indieauth implementation
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Loqi cweiske has 9 karma
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cweiske kylewm, the wiki does not support it yet
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cweiske see http://fotos.cweiske.de/screenshots/2014-07-02%20indieauth%20coming%20soon.png
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cweiske "coming soon"
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kylewm cweiske: I mean, that is the intention?
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kylewm I am not understanding why it goes through indieauth.com in that case, and doesn't use your provider directly?
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cweiske it would be of course better if the mediawiki plugin would do the authorization_endpoint discovery itself
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kylewm oh :)
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cweiske instead of relying on indieauth.com for that
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cweiske kylewm, aaronpk does not want to implement that
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kylewm cweiske: i respect that :) was more wondering if there was a fundamental reason it couldn't work that way
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cweiske it does already work that way for some software:
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aaronpk indiewebcamp.com is using indieauth.com to handle auth. ownyourgram.com is doing indieauth directly.
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cweiske http://indiewebcamp.com/distributed-indieauth#Sites_that_support_distributed_IndieAuth
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aaronpk i don't want to write that much mediawiki code, so that's why i'm letting the wiki rely on indieauth.com
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aaronpk this is kind of confusing because of the double role that indieauth.com can play
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cweiske indieauth.com for indieauth is like janrain for openid
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aaronpk ha yeah
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cweiske "hey, don't implement the open protocol but our protocol that talks the open protocol in the background" :)
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aaronpk except in this case it's the same protocol *gasp*
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cweiske :) yep
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aaronpk which is also confusing
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aaronpk but cool
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cweiske a subset
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aaronpk right
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JonathanNeal The IndieAuth homepage design is rather ominous.
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aaronpk hahaha
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aaronpk suggestions welcome
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JonathanNeal aaronpk: https://indieauth.com/img/web-signin-splash.jpg I think it was triggered by this vignette / gradient.
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Loqi [mention] http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-02 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-02 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-02 (webmention)
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aaronpk gotta run
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dreeves ooh, speaking of which, can we get beeminder added to the bottom of indieauth.com?
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JonathanNeal Hmm, I’ll think of some suggestions :)
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aaronpk dreeves: ooh yes!
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Loqi [mention] http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-02#0 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-02 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-02#1 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-02#0 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-02#2 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-02#1 (webmention)
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kylewm um.. Loqi you ok?
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dreeves aaronpk: we can do a pull request on https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth
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Loqi [mention] http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-02#3 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-02#2 (webmention)
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tantek !tell aaronpk yes on upgrading microformats wiki at the same time. Will also have some plugin compatibility testing to do.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu wait! what the hell is Loqi doing?
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aaronpk That'd be great!
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 32 seconds ago: yes on upgrading microformats wiki at the same time. Will also have some plugin compatibility testing to do.
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cweiske seems I found a way to send webmention spam without getting caught as duplicates :)
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cweiske now the 1..10000 loop
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kylewm lol
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cweiske webmention.io could verify if there is really an element with id=1
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cweiske which isn't
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cweiske but currently it's accepting all anchors without checking them
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kylewm hmm interesting. the same thing would happen if you sent those webmentions to my site
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cweiske no
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kylewm well not those speifically
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cweiske since irc is logged, I get new links
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cweiske that link from the page to the same page
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kylewm i just mean i'd be vulnerable to #[0-10000] too
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cweiske well, yes it could happen
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dreeves aaronpk: pull requested
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tantek cweiske - yes, webmention is quite vulnerable to being spammed, in pretty much everybody's implementation.
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JonathanNeal Is there an SVG of this logo? https://indieauth.com/img/indieauth-logo-color.png
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tantek cweiske, if you're up for doing spam testing, please start gently. 1-3 maybe rather than 1-10k. And preferably with someone who has explicitly opted in as a spam-test-target. :)
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shepazu JonathanNeal, if there isn't, I could make one in about 5-10 minutes
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tantek haha "SVG" as hot-keyword for summoning shepazu ;)
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shepazu tantek, guilty :)
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KartikPrabhu SVG++
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Loqi SVG has 1 karma
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JonathanNeal let me spend 2-3 minutes first, and I’ll ping you if my efforts are not perfect.
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shepazu JonathanNeal, sounds good
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tantek shepazu - is there a service for making "comicbook" versions of avatars (i.e. upload JPG/PNG) in SVG?
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shepazu tantek, don't know of one, but I'd love it
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shepazu tantek, it's actually not trivial to convert a PNG to an efficient SVG
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shepazu there are apps, but it's not terrible smooty
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tantek shepazu I figured of all people you would know. Plus it would be fun way to promote SVG adoption (since people like cartoony-avatars of themselves)
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shepazu smooth
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shepazu tantek, well, I'm often out of the loop
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kylewm JonathanNeal: I'm pretty sure there is one somewhere
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shepazu but it is a good idea
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tantek shepazu - but you're good at discovery of such things. :)
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shepazu tantek, currently working on an icon for "annotation" for my annotation architecture diagram
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shepazu :)
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JonathanNeal shepazu: Mine was not perfect when I used tracing in illustrator. Go for it.
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shepazu JonathanNeal, gimme 10 minutes
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JonathanNeal awesome, 160x200 artboard, 42px inner gap for the i.
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KartikPrabhu relative units plz :P
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shepazu KartikPrabhu, why relative units?
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KartikPrabhu hmm I just think they are nicer...
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tantek shepazu - nice, perhaps the indieweb annotation implementation efforts can use your icon - if it has a liberal enough license ;)
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KartikPrabhu shepazu: I think it doesn't matter in SVG
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JonathanNeal Correction, base appears to be 60, 40, 60. KartikPrabhu, you can use px measurements and they’re still relative.
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shepazu tantek, all my stuff is CC-BY or CC-0… in this case, since I didn't draw it, CC-0
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shepazu JonathanNeal, nope, there's a difference
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tantek shepazu++ for using CC-BY or CC0
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Loqi shepazu has 1 karma
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shepazu but now I'm going to work on it… brb!
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KartikPrabhu shepazu: would like to see an "annotations" icon. have been using just the comment on for now
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JonathanNeal shepazu: uh, isn’t the only difference the granularity of the math behind the shapes?
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KartikPrabhu shepazu JonathanNeal: yeah I'd like to know about this px thingie too
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JonathanNeal the dot of the i and hole of the a appears to be 50 in diameter.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I had another suggestion for the "comment" icon that you're using inline at the ends of paragraphs with marginalia
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KartikPrabhu tantek: shoot
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tantek what if you also put a mini inline facepile of the avatars of those who had left marginalia on that paragraph, immediately after/inline with the comment icon.?
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tantek so just by scrolling, you could see the faces of those who added marginalia on each paragraph - no need to show/hide or anything
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tantek that way if someone in particular that you like to read said something, you would know to open it up
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tantek or say, if *a lot* of people left marginalia on a paticular paragraph
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tantek s/paticular/particular
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Loqi tantek meant to say: or say, if *a lot* of people left marginalia on a particular paragraph
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KartikPrabhu tantek: the problem is the "lot" of people. This is not scalable in any sense. I don't want 50 faces after a paragraph interrupting the reading flow
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KartikPrabhu does not expect 50 margin comments anyway
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tantek KartikPrabhu: so you cap it at 6 (like Twitter) or some other number
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tantek (the first 6)
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KartikPrabhu but then why use them if your fav person is going to get blocked
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KartikPrabhu blocked = hidden
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tantek because 6 is better than nothing
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KartikPrabhu hmmm
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tantek you could even put … or a + or a +n after it
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tantek for >6
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KartikPrabhu I actually don't like such "popularity" metrics
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tantek but they're popularity on paragraphs! on ideas!
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tantek that's a good thing!
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KartikPrabhu I don't know. I don't like the "ooo this has 50 likes so I'll read it" situation
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tantek sure - so that's a reason to not use +n and just trim at 6
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bear if > N use a single avatar that is a crowd
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KartikPrabhu I have been thinking of adding a marginalia count attribute in case people want to use it. I'll think about my site separately
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KartikPrabhu bear: what did you think about the hollow/solid icon?
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bear oh poo - I forgot to say… loved it - much easier for me to see and also re-find on a page after scrolling
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KartikPrabhu nice!
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KartikPrabhu SVGs are great! one icon for both hollow and solid! :D
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JonathanNeal shepazu: did you win or did it beat you? re: svg
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JonathanNeal Also. Top of the “A" is 82 including stroke. Base of the “I" is 40 inside stroke.
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johnkastler.net created /User:Johnkastler.net (+13) "Created page with "Hello, world!"" (view diff)
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shepazu JonathanNeal, sorry, still working on it
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shepazu gimme another 10
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johnkastler.net edited /User:Johnkastler.net (+34) (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: anyway - just some thoughts - I find that UIs with faces like that are much friendlier, more humanizing, and the little splash of color at the end of a paragraph would help break up the b&w
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KartikPrabhu tantek: of course. It just happens that that idea might not go with my design tastes. But I would like to see more diff. ways of doing it :)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: why not put it somewhere in /annotation ? ;)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: because it still feels too hypothetical / handwavy. If I was implementing it myself (even planning to soon) then I might capture it on the wiki.
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KartikPrabhu aah I see
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KartikPrabhu you should get on the webmention wagon
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Loqi agreed.
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KartikPrabhu another reason I am reluctant at the moment, is that the facepile is very site-specific (who know where the avatar is.) I want to have some generally usable thing first
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tantek KartikPrabhu: that (webmention) I *do* have plans / concrete thoughts for: http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#send_webmentions_for_posted_links
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tantek wait how is the facepile site specific?
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tantek you just get it from the logo or photo of the h-card of the author
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I'll have to search for a u-photo element and gets its src and put it in the paragraph
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KartikPrabhu note: I am not actually parsing any mf2 on the client side with JS.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: you already do that in your existing marginalia display
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tantek just get it from those
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shepazu JonathanNeal, done
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shepazu it's not perfect
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KartikPrabhu tantek: no! I just move existing comments around. not finding any mf2 stuff
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KartikPrabhu or parsing them in anyway
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shepazu I erred on the size of geometric symmetry… the original was lopsided
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shepazu I could easily change it
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JonathanNeal shepazu: excited to see it.
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KartikPrabhu link link link!
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shepazu http://codepen.io/Shepazu/pen/egCph
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kylewm i'd guess the original was not lopsided intentionally
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shepazu JonathanNeal, does that work for you?
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KartikPrabhu nice!
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KartikPrabhu btw tantek: you should leave marginalia comments with UI suggestions ;)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: genius :)
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KartikPrabhu that is what they're for!
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tantek but do you show embedded images from marginalia?
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tantek which I could use to illustrate my suggestion?
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KartikPrabhu if they're in the comment then yes! I am pretty sure I allow img in responses
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tantek ooh!
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tantek (so many awesome things to blog about post-indiewebcamp pre-homebrewwebsiteclub!)
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KartikPrabhu I do nothing special with marginalia compared to other comments except move them around
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KartikPrabhu though some style might break, since I haven't gotten image laden responses yet!
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KartikPrabhu will be a good test case!
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I'd probably just use an inline style= attribute to size/align the image
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shepazu JonathanNeal, can you ack that you got it?
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tantek bret - did you pick a bar for an informal PDX HWC tonight?
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tantek or dietrich? any chance of hosting @MozPDX?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I am not sure if my HTML cleaner gets rid of inline styles! Will be a really good test case.... looking forward to it. Along with fixing some webmention verification issues
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tantek KartikPrabhu: ok cool
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tantek KartikPrabhu btw do you have indie events on your site? We need a URL for Chicago here: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-02-homebrew-website-club#URLs
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KartikPrabhu hmm not posting events yet! I don't host enough really. but will work on adding that post type
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KartikPrabhu let me re-phrase. none of my friends will look at indie-events! they're all FB people
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KartikPrabhu <grumbles>
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JonathanNeal shepazu: I see it! 159?
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shepazu 159?
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shepazu JonathanNeal, 159?
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KartikPrabhu shepazu: viewBox
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shepazu KartikPrabhu, they should be able to use FB and federate indie-events
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KartikPrabhu 159 200
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shepazu JonathanNeal, KartikPrabhu yeah, that's the size of the original image
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KartikPrabhu shepazu: I don't want FB stuff on my site :)
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KartikPrabhu i keep FB for things I don't really care about :P
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JonathanNeal shepazu: that’s why I was giving you normalized measurements.
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shepazu JonathanNeal, it doesn't matter what the measurements are
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shepazu it's autoscaling
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shepazu it fits whatever size you want
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shepazu JonathanNeal, I can do 160, just a minute
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bret tantek i think im tapped out for the week in terms of meetups. have to get ready to go on a 4th of july trip tomorrow too
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tantek bret - that's fair
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JonathanNeal I wish I knew how to draw in illustrator.
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tantek bret, perhaps encourage other PDX folks to consider doing a meetup at a bar?
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tantek is there a default IndieWeb hacking bar?
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tantek (in PDX)
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bret no, but that would be cool
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tantek like maybe that one with the digital display of what brews/drinks they have on tap
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shepazu JonathanNeal, http://codepen.io/Shepazu/pen/egCph
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bret oh bailies
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tantek and that has the ability to have mexican food delivered from the place next door
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tantek that seems like a reasonable default
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tantek seems central enough
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bret the mexian place with the bathroom in the strip club :)
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shepazu JonathanNeal, I didn't draw it in Illustrator, I drew it in TextPad :P
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tantek bret - yes, however the pub itself has its own bathrooms
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bret oh portland
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tantek so you can get the mexican food delivered to you at the bar, and then use the bar's bathrooms so you don't have to walk through the other club.
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bret tantek the way portland works is that everyone leaves downtown at 5 XD. aaronpk and I met up and ford food and drink the other weekend and had a few people show up
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JonathanNeal shepazu: wizard!
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bret which is out in the SE portland area
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JonathanNeal shepazu: by the way, I think we’ve collaborated once before, on, the HTML5 Gang Sign?
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shepazu JonathanNeal, oh, right :)
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shepazu not sure I "collaborated"… more… "piled on"
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JonathanNeal Sadly, I can give you the exact X+Y points for the shape, but I don’t know how to draw it.
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shepazu JonathanNeal, then you should learn SVG, it's not that hard
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shepazu I didn't "draw", I handcoded this
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JonathanNeal Link to beginner teaching material?
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bret tantek well if no one steps up to do hwc tonight, i will be hacking on iw stuff next week and resume the normal meetups after that
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tantek bret - good to hear it
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shepazu JonathanNeal, http://apike.ca/prog_svg_paths.html
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bret but if emmak pauloppenheim or peat wanna do a hwc portland tonight feel free :)
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tantek pauloppenheim is in portland?
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pauloppenheim i am in sf
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pauloppenheim hey, maybe someday!
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tantek emmak peat - go for it!
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pauloppenheim i promise i won't even pull a kevin rose
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tantek pauloppenheim: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-02-homebrew-website-club#RSVP
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pauloppenheim tantek: have a party tonight. i have some curious things cooking, but not quite cooked
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JonathanNeal shepazu: is H move by or move to?
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@aaronpk @christi3k Yep! https://indieauth.com/ can be used as an OpenID provider! Check out http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth#Use_IndieAuth_for_your_OpenID (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/07/02/3/indieauth) (twitter.com/_/status/484459540075655169)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/07/02/3/indieauth linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth#Use_IndieAuth_for_your_OpenID (webmention)
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pauloppenheim it's been a while tho, i miss you lovely people
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emmak what is the tentative plan for PDX HWC? meet up for drinks and coding somewhere?
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shepazu JonathanNeal, H is horizontal moveto
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shepazu JonathanNeal, boarding a plane now, later!
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JonathanNeal I think it’s move by, it’s based on the last coord.
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JonathanNeal bye!
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KartikPrabhu is shepazu Doug Schepers ?
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/aaronpk/484459540075655169/14111858 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth#Use_IndieAuth_for_your_OpenID (webmention)
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kylewm emmak: my understanding was that no one has volunteered to lead PDX or pick a place to hang out and code
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bret aaronpk could you not host bust still want to meet?
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bret s/bust/but
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Loqi bret meant to say: aaronpk could you not host but still want to meet?
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aaronpk bret: I have a dinner to go to and I don't know how late it will go
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aaronpk I'll be downtown though so if you guys end up somewhere let me know cause I might be able to join you for a bit later
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bret im going to be at home packing and decompressing from the last week and a half
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@PersonaInc "@forrester: Consumers worry they have no control over who has access to their data. #FORRForum http://t.co/0pJbYAHcsM" #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/484468674791604224)
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@StPaulTim Something I want to look closer at - http://indiewebcamp.com/ - Thanks - http://www.christydena.com/2014/07/i-am-a-citizen-of-the-indieweb-d/ (twitter.com/_/status/484469095329308672)
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willnorris !tell tantek, could you release your NewBase60 implementation in Cassis under a “traditional” permissive license (Apache, MIT, BSD, etc). I’m getting a lot of pushback over the BY-SA license from Google lawyers in trying to release my Go port.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bret willnorris :( that sux
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willnorris bret: yeah, though to be fair, even Creative Commons themselves tell you that CC licenses shouldn’t be applied to software
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bret how come?
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kylewm bret: http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions#Can_I_apply_a_Creative_Commons_license_to_software.3F
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bret ah i see
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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@timklapdor Great wrap up of #indiewebcamp from @holden http://hapgood.us/2014/07/02/indiewebcamp/ Inspiration for my reclaim project based on pragmatism (& not code)! (twitter.com/_/status/484478586489810944)
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KartikPrabhu HWC - Chicago activate!
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@jasongreen I just figured out how to POSSE w/o Known: webmention plugin + brid.gy @timmmmyboy @jimgroom (http://blog.jasongreen.net/2014/07/without-known/) (twitter.com/_/status/484482393470799873)
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gRegor` php-mf2 question, specifically with barnabywalters' Functions.php:
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gRegor` What's the best way to extract the in-reply-to URL?
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gRegor` I was incorrectly using getPlaintext(), which assumes the link text is also my URL.
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gRegor` getHtml() returned the same.
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gRegor` Might just need to parse the array manually
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gRegor` barnabywalters php-mf-cleaner, that is. https://github.com/barnabywalters/php-mf-cleaner
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GWG gRegor`: We any closer to that deep dish?
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kylewm gRegor`: I think you want `if isMicroformat(mf) return getPlaintext(mf, "url") else return toPlaintext(mf)`
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kylewm where mf = entry["properties"]["in-reply-to"][0]
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@jmenglund03 What would a #posse approach to edtech look like? Possible LTI development, others? http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/3393 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/484486446699405315)
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Loqi tantek: willnorris left you a message 50 minutes ago: you release your NewBase60 implementation in Cassis under a “traditional” permissive license (Apache, MIT, BSD, etc). I’m getting a lot of pushback over the BY-SA license from Google lawyers in trying to release my Go port.