#indiewebcamp 2014-07-05

2014-07-05 UTC
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JonathanNeal I was so hoping to accomplish something! Downside to indie web work, no team to keep me going.
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rascul the only team i need is my team of beers
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rascul they line up to give me support
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rascul i'm actively going through my code trying to add comemnts and change variable names and whatnot and try to make it easier to read
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rascul unknown how the end result will turn out
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JonathanNeal rascul: for what application?
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JonathanNeal I am attempting to write a UI library that let’s you appear to write comments on a site, but actually submits those comments back to your site for a webmention. Or has that been done to death?
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kylewm JonathanNeal: has not been done to death at all
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kylewm right on the cutting edge of what's going on :)
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rascul JonathanNeal for my site generator
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rascul it's not big now but i should probably try to get into the habit of doing it before it gets too much bigger
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rascul especially if other people might use it later
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JonathanNeal is it on github?
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rascul no, but it's here http://git.rascul.io/crash/crash
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rascul that's the current code that generates rascul.io
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rascul http://git.rascul.io/crash/content for the content
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JonathanNeal it’s a cms?
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rascul static site generator
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JonathanNeal does it let you generate the content to be published online?
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rascul yes
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KartikPrabhu oh noes! how do I restore a closed window in FF?
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rascul KartikPrabhu window? i dunno, if it were a tab, ctrl+shift+t
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-do-i-restore-my-tabs-last-time
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JonathanNeal Click on the menu button on the right side of your toolbar. Select History to expand the drop-down list and choose Restore Previous Session.
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KartikPrabhu phew! thanks JonathanNeal :P
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JonathanNeal rascul: that’s kind of a cms, except it publishes to static, right?
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KartikPrabhu I didn't know it was in the History button
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rascul JonathanNeal i guess it is actually
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JonathanNeal Another thing I would like to see fleshed out is the idea of likes/friends/followers/whatever. Something where I can “like” a bunch of you, and then generate a list of common people or sites that you like that I might not know about.
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rascul i've been forming ideas for friends and whatnot, but nothing coherent enough yet to document anywhere
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: I plan on posting some such list to my site soon... you can parse it for rel-following at get recommendations by me ;)
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JonathanNeal I really need to get some kind of webmentions commenting thing together soon. It’s hard to build UIs when I have to cut my own everything-else.
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JonathanNeal What is the easiest, simpliest webmention library on the net these days?
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: yes. building for your own use also serves as good motivation
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: what language?
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JonathanNeal PHP
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KartikPrabhu http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#Handling
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JonathanNeal The issue I am facing with cross site indieweb stuff is how easy it would be for a site to submit a webmention on your behalf without your consent. I guess you could decide your own authentication.
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JonathanNeal I wish I could concisely and eloquently describe to you what I am imagining.
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rascul working on webmentions is in the near future for me (which at my pace means anywhere from 1 day to 1 month heh)
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: yes... in fact I do that routinely, using my local site copy to send webmentions for my live one :P
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KartikPrabhu but if the post is public I don't see the harm.
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KartikPrabhu it is like saying "anyone can share your URL without your consent"
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KartikPrabhu goes to watch Grand Budapest Hotel... bbiab
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JonathanNeal If I login to a website, I might not trust them enough to “like” or “comment” on their site without first okaying it on my own site. If I tell my website to allow requests I make from that site immediately, that site could just say “send a request in the background to like us”.
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: see this http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Micropub_for_Comments some ideas on that
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JonathanNeal Whereas, if our two sites share a common protocol, my site won’t allow this by any forced means, but will allow an redirection where I can verify the action on my own site.
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: maybe you should enable IndieAuth and webmention receiving on your website to see how their UX flow works
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KartikPrabhu and a traditional comment box if you want that
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pdurbin KartikPrabhu: great movie. enjoy
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kylewm question for phpers, I'm running PHP 5.4 in nginx with FastCGI, and getting "Call to undefined function Idno\Common\getallheaders()"
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kylewm it sounds like getallheaders() was apache-only until 5.4
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kylewm but i'm definitely upgraded
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kylewm any ideas?
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bret anyone know a good souce for notes from the indie tech summit?
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bret the plan was to video tape some of the talk I think
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bret talks*
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rascul looks like i got my static generator pulling content from git repo now, hopefully i got it right!
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rascul this can apply in many ways to the indieweb http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/7-reasons-why-novices-should-not-self-host-wordpress/
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rascul although i would change it from "novices should not" to something about taking their time and learning stuff
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KartikPrabhu basically "7 reasons why your are dumb and can't do this and should be afraid"
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rascul 7 reasons to take your time and learn about the technologies involved in self hosting because it's easy to fail hard
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KartikPrabhu yes... but on that post is not so positive
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KartikPrabhu it just says "don't do this"
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rascul yeah i think the guy is trying to scare people away when he should be trying to inform them so they can better host their site
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GWG To play devil's advocate, why hire a maid? People hire other people to do things because they don't want to do them all the time. But that seems to not be the argument.
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rascul hire a maid because you're lazy and don't want to clean
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GWG rascul: Or because you value your time more than your money?
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rascul that sounds like a better reason than being lazy
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GWG rascul: There is a balance between the two.
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rascul is too lazy to hire a maid
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GWG rascul: I didn't hire mine. I inherited her.
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rascul wife?
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GWG rascul: No. My parents retired. They arranged to send her to me every few weeks.
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rascul ahh
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GWG I just took over
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GWG So, I get a deep cleaning periodically
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rascul the idea of someone cleaning my stuff bothers me
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rascul *someone else
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GWG What stuff do you feel uncomfortable having cleaned?
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rascul everything
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rascul i've always been a do everything myself kind of person
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GWG Either way, back to hosting concepts, some people don't want to build their own platforms
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GWG Let's change the analogy...
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rascul yeah
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GWG Would you build a car from scratch?
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rascul actually i would
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GWG Yes, but would everyone?
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rascul with some help from my brother it could be done, something i hope to do eventually
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rascul no, not everyone
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GWG So, some people want to build the infrastructure for a website, some want to only handle the content
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rascul indeed
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rascul the infrastructure can also be an overwhelming task for some
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rascul btw, https://localmotors.com you can help build your own car with the professionals
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GWG That was my point. I like building systems.
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GWG Not everyone does.
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GWG And recently, I moved from maintaining systems to building websites, and took on a new challenge.
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GWG But does everyone want to do that?
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rascul no
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GWG Going back to the article, that is the point. It just says it in a negative way.
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rascul yes
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GWG Which is the problem more than anything erlse
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GWG else
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rascul there can indeed be a steep learning curve to setting all that stuff up
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rascul especially as the article notes to people with little to no tech background
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rascul but i believe /generations helps us there
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rascul in regard to the indieweb i mean
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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GWG 62.95 for a .io
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GWG ?
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rascul $40 from gandi
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GWG I may just find something cheaper in a different tld
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GWG I can get a .me for $20.95 for my short citations
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rascul this may also be of concern http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.io#Controversy
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rascul .co is under $20
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GWG I could get a .us for $9.95
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rascul er, i thought it was, maybe i'm wrong about .co
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rascul or maybe it was on sale when i got mine
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GWG rascul: What do you think about domain shortening?
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GWG I backed off on it when Twitter started rewriting my short URLs to theirs
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aaronpk I think if my domain weren't so long I would just use it for short URLs and full URLs
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GWG Mine is longer
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aaronparecki.com created /2014/indie-business (+2689) "copy notes from etherpad" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu still doesn't understand the utility of short-domains apart from Twitter-pandering
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aaronpk that's where it started of course
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GWG aaronpk: So where does it end?
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aaronpk there's still the handwritten use case
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: for hand-written case I would rather have a human-legible url than some bunch of letters
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KartikPrabhu longer to write but easier to remember and parse no?
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KartikPrabhu in case someone loses or forgets the written URL, it would be easier to search if the slug URL is well-designed
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kylewm maybe we should rethink the algorithmic short urls in light of that
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: possibly. any ideas? I have been thinking about those but came up empty
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kylewm I think it's bit.ly, probably others, that let you specify your own slug
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kylewm kyl.im / IndieWebCamp2014
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kylewm that sort of thing
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: so the short-somain is purely to shorten the domain name?
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kylewm no, like e.g., kyl\.im/slug -> kylewm\.com/2014/06/29/1/some-long-slug,
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kylewm you'd create the short url only when you need one
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kylewm (not something i have needed/wanted, but if the primary use case is ease of putting a url on a business card or something)
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KartikPrabhu intersesting
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KartikPrabhu as tantek might point out not algorithmic
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kylewm I think it's very likely i'll let kyl.im lapse
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GWG kylewm: Do you have a business card?
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kylewm GWG: for work I do
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GWG I wonder if I should update my $5 Vistaprint cards
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GWG Wonder what an Indieweb business card is
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GWG I tried to make my h-card look like one
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KartikPrabhu indieweb business card is your h-card no matter how it looks
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I was thinking design.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: the visual design is your choice... there should be no indieweb mandated visual design
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KartikPrabhu the data-design is provided by HTML+mf2
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GWG 'Mandated' and inspired are two different things
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KartikPrabhu and rel=me etc...
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KartikPrabhu GWG: I don't think there is an indieweb-inspired visual design
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:iwc-2014-logging-in-to-quill.png]]""
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rascul GWG what do you mean by domain shortening?
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:iwc-2014-quill-sign-in-error.png]]""
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: still getting cold-shouldered by quill sometimes, clicking "Post" does nothing no error messages... could you add whether the "authorization" was done through LINK headers in the debug info?
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rascul GWG i guess my h-card on rascul.io looks kinda like a business card
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: hmm yeah you mean you want to see what quill sent?
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KartikPrabhu yeah that'd be nice... I want to know if it is a problem at my end or something else
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GWG rascul: I do like the two column design
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aaronparecki.com moved /File:iwc-2014-logging-in-to-quill.png to /File:iwc-2014-quill-signed-in.png
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KartikPrabhu maybe hidden in a link so that it doesn't interrupt your nice design?
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KartikPrabhu rascul: the point is it could look like a IRL business card or it couldn't. that's upto the individual site
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rascul GWG doesn't work well on mobile, i have to play with the css some more to get it right, ideally it will be one list in reverse chronological order and the css will make it into two columns when there's enough room, or one when there's not (ie mobile)
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KartikPrabhu and anyone could include your card on their site but make it look compatible with their site's visuals
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rascul but i wasn't able to get the css right yet so it's one list
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rascul well, kinda like a list, but inside a div instead of ul
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rascul er, wasn't able to get the css right yet so it's two lists
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GWG rascul: Shortening is when you have a URL that is short, but not human readable usually.
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GWG rascul: I didn't check mobile.
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rascul like https://rascul.io/n/1x3fiq then
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GWG Yes
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rascul my short links are also permalinks, the long version can change if i change the post title
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I just have this idea of having a physical card that looks like a page on the site that is just the h-card
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rascul eventually rascul.io/card will be just my h-card, maybe possible to export verbatim to other sites
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KartikPrabhu GWG: go for it if it is good for your site... but indieweb stuff does not dictate/encourage some particular visual design
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:iwc-2014-quill-signing-in.png]]""
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KartikPrabhu that is a very nice thing that I like about indieweb
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rascul right now my /card is apparently an old version of my h-card wrapped in my sites template
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aaronparecki.com created /2014/micropub (+3329) "copy notes from etherpad" (view diff)
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I do incorporate elements I like from other sites though, as it should be
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KartikPrabhu yeah
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rascul time for bed, my dog is already asleep, her bed is right next to mine
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GWG Night, rascul
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KartikPrabhu !tell tantek: I think algorthmic short URLs are for machines not humans. we should discuss/debate this! maybe then I can get miffed at you for being a pig-head ;)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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GWG I have this odd urge to implement h-card hovercards
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KartikPrabhu GWG: I have thought of that too... but think of non-hover devices
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GWG Oh? On the non-hover?
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KartikPrabhu yeah what happens for mobile browsers for instance
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GWG What alternatives?
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KartikPrabhu i don't have good ones
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KartikPrabhu I like kylewm's approach of putting a little face next to the person's name
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GWG That does the popup?
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KartikPrabhu no. no popup.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: if you do a popup on hover what happens on mobile where there is no hover?
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GWG Switch to click behavior
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KartikPrabhu so no h-card on mobile and mobile people get a lesser-experience? that can be done
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KartikPrabhu but then you'd need to reconsider "what actual UX experience is the popup providing? Do touch users not need that? If so, why do mouse users need it? "
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aaronparecki.com created /2014/Berlin/Day-1 (+6868) "copy notes from etherpad" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu GWG: despite these misgivings I'd love to see an approach that works... I am interested in this myself but have no good answers yet
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Berlin/Day-1 (+40) "add category and header" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: are all demos going into the wiki... If so I can help move NYC demos from IRC. I don't think we documented intro-demos but tantek took notes on hack-demos
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: yes that would be amazing if you could do that!!
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KartikPrabhu cool... I'll try to get on it tonight/tomorrow
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aaronparecki.com created /2014/Berlin/Day-2 (+770) "copy notes from etherpad" (view diff)
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GWG KartikPrabhu: It's on my itch list.
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aaronpk trying to not freak out every time there is a loud bang less than 50 feet away from me
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KartikPrabhu ha!
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KartikPrabhu fireworks what a weird thing
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KartikPrabhu "let's make loud noise and smoke coz we're happy"
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JonathanNeal aaronpk: we are staying the night at my wife’s folks’ home tonight, because our town goes crazy for Independence Day.
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: if you could organise the /2014/demos page to make room for a PDX section and a NYC section ... I'll add stuff later
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: cool will do
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KartikPrabhu is bad at wiki organisation
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aaronpk hmm /me wonders if the 2014/SF stuff was ever moved onto the wiki
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aaronpk wow I think we never did any SF pages
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/SF/https (+41) "add category" (view diff)
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aaronpk there's one
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Demos (+223) "add headers for New York" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/SF/Schedule (+220) "/* Friday, March 7, 2014 */ add stub links to internal wiki pages to prep for moving content from etherpad" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh hey! "TODO: Archive Etherpads from sessions (see below for index) to wiki pages and link to them below!"
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/SF (+386) "/* Sessions */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/SF (+44) "/* Sessions */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/SF/Schedule (+160) "/* Friday, March 7, 2014 */" (view diff)
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tommorris tommorris.org/places has now come out of beta and is linked in the nav bar. ;-)
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jonnybarnes tommorris: I feel you places page might be better if it indicated there were "sub-places" of United Kingdom
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tommorris jonnybarnes: I thought about having a more complex place hierarchy, but then decided that it didn’t really serve any purpose. ;-)
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jonnybarnes tommorris: but overall impressive
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jonnybarnes tommorris: also, are using the default mapbox styling in your maps?
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jonnybarnes or did you customise it at all?
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tommorris nope, just default mpabox
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brennannovak.com edited /IndieMark (+12) "/* Level 2 posts */" (view diff)
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brennannovak.com edited /IndieMark (+16) "/* Level 2 posts */" (view diff)
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cweiske "If you are POSSEing to all of the following sites on which you have accounts, then you automatically get the full 0.1 POSSE points."
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cweiske coolio. I have no external accounts, so I get all points
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PMurphs_ r whatever
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PMurphs_ what friggin irssi
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@KevTheHornet Anyone else on twitter use #Path (facebook alternative)? Any views? What's the best alternative to fb? #indieweb perhaps? (twitter.com/_/status/485411779921858561)
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snarfed interesting PESOS plugin for wordpress: http://wordpress.org/plugins/keyring-social-importers/
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snarfed does both full dump and ongoing sync
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GWG It's pre-release and hasn't been updated in nearly a year though
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snarfed eh, gmail was in beta for how long?
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snarfed and i don't put much stock in "freshness," ie how recently something was updated
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GWG snarfed: I know. We discussed that. But when something wasn't considered released by the developer, I get concerned.
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GWG The updated date makes me wonder if it will ever reach that status
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snarfed eh. again, i think that idea is overrated. software engineers rarely consider projects "done"
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GWG Ok
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snarfed but i may be biased in this case because i know the author is good
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snarfed more importantly though, this is all academic because we can try it out and see for ourselves if it works and we like it
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GWG That I might do.
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snarfed :P
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Loqi hober: tantek left you a message 5 days ago: hope you can make it this Wednesday evening @MozSF! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-02-homebrew-website-club
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kylewm gwg, snarfed, does the mailchimp social plugin do backfeed without bridgy??
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GWG kylewm: I think it does.
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GWG I use SNAP, but I'm not happy with it.
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kylewm I spent a little time adding microformats to a WordPress theme last night. it was... not fun
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GWG kylewm: I've been working on mine since April
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GWG I put it in, fixed it all, then threw it out the window and started again
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kylewm heh. this was the Independent Publisher, interestingly the microformats 1 stuff made it much more difficult
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kylewm so I ended up removing a lot of them
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GWG kylewm: What prompted it?
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kylewm GWG: trying to indiewebify my partner's blog
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GWG kylewm: Oh.
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aaronparecki.com edited /homepage (+54) "/* Webmention to homepage */" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/07/05/1/indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/repost (webmention)
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aaronpk snarfed: checking out bridgy publish... I don't see a text box on my user page after signing in with tiwtter
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snarfed aaronpk: looking
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snarfed heh, try refreshing
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aaronpk what!
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aaronpk where did that come from?
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snarfed probably https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/115 :/ sorry
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aaronpk I swear I already refreshed :)
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aaronpk ahh
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snarfed consistency is hard, let's go shopping :P
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk i'm thinking about what syndicating looks like in micropub-land
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snarfed thinking about posseing favorites or RTs?
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snarfed aha
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aaronpk this stuff gets complicated fast tho
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aaronpk wait a sec... can't anybody send a publish request on my behalf now that I authorized bridgy on twiter?
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snarfed they can publish any post from your site, yes
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aaronpk eep
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snarfed not quite as bad as fabricating anything, since they can only post something you've already posted publicly…but yeah, it's a security hole to some degree
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aaronpk true
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aaronpk although I found a problem
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snarfed yeah?
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aaronpk because I publish http://aaronparecki.com/mentions
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aaronpk bridgy finds the latest mention and will use that
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aaronpk so you can send me a webmention to any of my posts and it'll show up in my /mentions feed, then you can tweet that from my twitter account
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aaronpk goes and de-authorizes bridgy :)
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snarfed :P
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snarfed interesting, yeah
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snarfed sorry :/
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snarfed interesting (kind of) edge case, i'll think about that
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aaronpk is there a way to authorize bridgy to only have read access to my twitter account?
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aaronpk it seems to ask for write access even for authorizing comments and likes
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snarfed sadly no
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snarfed twitter does scopes at the app level, not the user level
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snarfed which is silly, i'd love to let you do that. i do w/g+ and fb
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aaronpk srsly?
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snarfed yup
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aaronpk i thought it was done at request time
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snarfed nope
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snarfed at least iirc. i would have implemented it if i could have
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snarfed check out one of your apps in https://dev.twitter.com/apps
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snarfed i could use two separate apps, one r/o and one r/w
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snarfed worth considering
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aaronpk weiiiird
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aaronpk yeah probably would not be a bad idea to have separate apps
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aaronpk this must be a side effect of twitter being stuck at oauth 1.1
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aaronpk before scopes were formalized
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snarfed sounds likely
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aaronpk i'm adding a new "syndication" section to the /micropub page
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aaronpk you've probably got a lot of stuff to add since you've essentially implemented a syndication micropub endpoint
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snarfed sure! minus the micropub, but yeah
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aaronpk well you'll see what I mean soon
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snarfed sure!
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aaronpk and using micropub would plug the existing security hole
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snarfed …at the cost of implementing micropub :P which i should do, i'm just lazy
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snarfed btw lots of details on bridgy's implementation on https://www.brid.gy/about#publish , but you've probably seen that
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snarfed also, micropub is a bigger hurdle for user. right now the UI and webmention trigger make it pretty accessible for lots of existing clients…
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snarfed …except with the security hole poison pill. whee
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aaronpk yeah, I bet there is some middle ground
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aaronpk if you think about bridgy publish not as a webmention endpoint (since it's not really, it's just an overloaded use of webmention) then you might think of it as a syndication service
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snarfed oh yeah, it definitely is a syndication service
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aaronpk in which case the obvious thing to do is when signing up for a syndication service like bridgy publish is to have bridgy return an access token that's required to make the syndication request
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snarfed webmention was just a convenient, maybe too lightweight trigger for programmatic code
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snarfed definitely. again, micropub or something similar is the right thing to do, it just limits potential users in the short term
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aaronpk so the thing you're shooting for is that people can just add a link to brid.gy/publish/twitter on their post and it'll happen automatically when they send webmentions for the post
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snarfed gotta run, but thanks for starting that page, i'm glad to have more prodding on this!
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aaronpk k cool, will keep noodling on this
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snarfed (and very few people use publish anyway, so i probably should bite the bullet :P)
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aaronparecki.com edited /micropub (+76) "update syndicate-to parameter to require username. this allows the micropub endpoint to be able to syndicate to multiple accounts on the same silo" (view diff)
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aaronpk really struggling with the limitations of form-encoding for specifying multiple values for the same parameter
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aaronpk like specifying multiple tags when creating a micropub request, or multiple syndicate-to values
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aaronpk comma-separated for tags makes sense, and also is technically valid for syndicate-to since commas can't be in URLs
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aaronpk most web frameworks get around the limitation of form-encoding by sending form parameters with [] after, like "tag[]=foo&tag[]=bar" but that is not actually part of the form-encoded spec
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aaronpk php also supports "tag[a]=foo&tag[b]=bar" doing what you'd expect
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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KartikPrabhu use JSON some would say ;)
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aaronpk indeed
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aaronpk you know what also works in php... content[https://twitter.com/aaronpk]=foo&content[https://facebook.com/aaronpk]=bar
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aaronpk trying it in ruby now
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aaronpk yep sinatra understands it
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aaronpk anyone want to try that in node and python?
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KartikPrabhu what is to try?
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aaronpk see if this outputs a hash like you'd expect: curl http://localhost:4567/ -d 'content[https://twitter.com/aaronpk]=foo&content[https://facebook.com/aaronpk]=bar'
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: in python it outputs a dictionary like so {'content[https://twitter.com/aaronpk]': ['foo'], 'content[https://facebook.com/aaronpk]': ['bar']}
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aaronpk ew
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aaronpk but technically correct
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KartikPrabhu what is expected?
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aaronpk the result in Ruby (Sinatra) is {"content"=>{"https://twitter.com/aaronpk"=>"foo", "https://facebook.com/aaronpk"=>"bar"}}
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aaronpk same with PHP
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KartikPrabhu oh I see... so the content itself is a dictionary of values
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aaronpk yep
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KartikPrabhu seems that won't fly in python :(
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aaronpk interestingly PHP and Ruby here don't conform to the http spec for parsing, and instead return the arguably more useful version
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aaronpk python is interpreting it according to the spec
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aaronpk which makes me wonder if there is some python library that parses it into a dictionary like the others
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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KartikPrabhu this one was from the standard urlparse thing
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KartikPrabhu one could always do some regex (blergh) on it
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aaronpk no regex...not for this
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aaronparecki.com created /Template:section-stub/doc (+802) "new doc for {{section-stub}} template" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com created /Template:section-stub (+277) "section-stub template" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /micropub (+2672) "add section on syndicating via micropub" (view diff)
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aaronpk starting to document syndicating via micropub here http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Syndicating_a_Post
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aaronpk in documenting this, I can definitely see why snarfed overloaded webmention to syndicate via bridgy
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aaronpk i find myself using the term "syndication target"
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KartikPrabhu bridgy's webmention overload is pretty clever
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aaronpk hah you know... I actually did essentially that with indienews
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KartikPrabhu :P
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aaronpk http://news.indiewebcamp.com/submit##Write+a+Post
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aaronpk http://news.indiewebcamp.com/how-to-submit-a-post
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aaronpk kind of awkward tho
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aaronpk that was my attempt to get around the chicken-and-egg problem and security issue that bridgy has right now
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: kylewm: with posse-post discovery what stops me from getting responses to someone else's tweets? For instance I can put kyle's tweet url as a "u-syndication" on my site
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KartikPrabhu !tell snarfed: kylewm: with posse-post discovery what stops me from getting responses to someone else's tweets? For instance I can put kyle's tweet url as a "u-syndication" on my
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu it seems as bridgy becomes bigger it'll need to deal with logging in and authentication. But that might prevent more users due to added complexity
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: posse-post-discovery would only search your domain for my tweets if I put kartikprabhu.com as my URL in the bio
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: so if I put your tweet URL as a u-syndication into one of my posts it gets ignores?
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kylewm hmm, no i guess you're right
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: my sites micropub I currently do syndicate-to=twitter.com in the API request
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jonnybarnes then my site automatically truncates the note as neccessary before sending it to twitter
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jonnybarnes why would the request need to be twitter.com/aaronpk?
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jonnybarnes unless your site is authneticated with twitter for several accounts
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: what is the danger of you publishing responses to my tweet as if they are your own?
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kylewm it's all public :P
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KartikPrabhu but they are not responses to my post at all!
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aaronpk jonnybarnes: cool. I was thinking because I may have multiple twitter accounts I want to syndicate to
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KartikPrabhu it is... cheating :P
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aaronpk i've seen people do this quite a bit
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aaronpk I actually already kind of do it, I have content at twitter.com/aaronpk and twitter.com/pkbot
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jonnybarnes Well both can work, as in sending just twitter.com makes the endpoint sybidcate to a default account
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@kevinmarks "@mcclure111: I would love to have cloud apps where I had my own little server I personally controlled with apps I controlled" #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/485516745143119873)
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jonnybarnes but twitter.com/username can be used to be more specific?
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aaronpk yeah. and actually i'm thinking that the actual values for the syndicate-to field should be determined by the micropub endpoint and pretty much opaque to the client
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jonnybarnes how would that work?
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aaronpk adding a section to the page right now... please hold :)
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jonnybarnes ok :)
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aaronparecki.com edited /micropub (+1031) "/* Syndicating a Post */ add section on Discovering Supported Syndication Targets" (view diff)
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aaronpk ok check out http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Discovering_Supported_Syndication_Targets
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: would a client make that request at the time of getting an access token and cache the result?
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk and possibly refreshed periodically, like if the person returns to the app after a while
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jonnybarnes if the endpoint is restricting via access token scopes then that recheck would posibly need to make a request for a new access token
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jonnybarnes presumably?
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aaronpk not sure what you mean
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: right, would the get request always return all possible synication targets
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aaronpk would reutrn all possibly syndication targets that the access token is valid for
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jonnybarnes and then my client can request permission for some of them when getting an access token?
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aaronpk oh I see
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jonnybarnes so the GET request needs an access token with it?
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aaronpk oh yeah, I should add that
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aaronparecki.com edited /micropub (+32) "/* Discovering Supported Syndication Targets */ add authorization header to GET example" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: OK, go to [secret URL on my domain] and click the link @lonnierae: types something [text arrives] (twitter.com/_/status/485523481514496000)
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jonnybarnes I'm still not sure how a client is suppose to know which syndication targets to request permission for when getting an access token
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aaronpk that might just be up to the auth server
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aaronpk to present the person with a list of syndication targets to allow the client to post to
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aaronpk rather than having the client request them
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@kevinmarks "you're not going to email yourself into building a website" - @t https://www.youtube.com/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/485525617740247041)
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@temporaryhuman RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: OK, go to [secret URL on my domain] and click the link @lonnierae: types something [text arrives] (twitter.com/_/status/485525653060460544)
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: could indieauth.com do that?
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jonnybarnes thats what Im using at the moment for my auth endpoint
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aaronpk if it's handled by an auth service like indieauth.com then yeah indieauth.com is going to need a way to ask your website for the list of all supported syndication targets to support :)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: "you're not going to email yourself into building a website" - @t https://www.youtube.com/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/485526236186157056)
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aaronpk my only concern is that I may not want to reveal the full list of my supported syndication targets publicly
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jonnybarnes then it may be best if the client itself asks for the syndication targets, if it already has an access token then the request cant be made by anyone and their dog
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aaronpk but that request could still be made by any authorized app
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jonnybarnes yes, but youd have to have authosised the app
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jonnybarnes i.e. only apps that you have already authorised to use your site can get the syndication endpoints
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jonnybarnes I would never be able to get the syndication endpoints your site supports because I'd never get a valid access token from your site
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aaronpk hm this is tricky
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aaronpk cause even if the auth server presents the list, it would have to not present the list unless it knows who you are
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aaronpk otherwise you could attempt to sign in anywhere as me and then you'd see my list
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aaronpk this is why private stuff is hard :(
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aaronpk i think this is tangential to the core idea of syndicating via micropub tho
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jonnybarnes yeah, absolutely, a client goes syndicate-to=target, and the endpoint sees if the access token is valid for target and then syndicates
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jonnybarnes its just working out how to know what the targets are
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jonnybarnes I'm gonna stick with just syndicate-to=twitter.com for now
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aaronpk what client is sending that for you right now?
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jonnybarnes erm, my client, jonnybarnes.net/notes/new
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jonnybarnes if you click the twitter checkbox it adds syndicate-to=twitter.com to the POST request
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aaronpk ah cool
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KartikPrabhu err how detailed should the demos writeup be? tantek took very detailed notes in IRC
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aaronpk as much detail as possible!
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KartikPrabhu alright then!
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kartikprabhu.com edited /2014/Demos (+3899) "/* New York Start Demos */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk confirm that ^ looks good :)
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aaronpk yeah perfect!!
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KartikPrabhu ok now to hack day
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kartikprabhu.com edited /2014/Demos (+5925) "/* New York Hack Day Demos */" (view diff)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /2014/Demos (-83) "removed link to NYC notes from PDX section" (view diff)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /2014/Demos (-1) "/* People Focused Mobile Communication */ fixed names" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: just saw http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-06-28/line/1403984292 in the logs. might have missed it onn IWC day. exposing findElementbyText would be very sweet! That way I don't have to re-include that bit of code in marginalia! :)
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KartikPrabhu alrighty NYC demo notes done!
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aaronpk woo!
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colepeters.com edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (+380) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: CSS question for you! I'm playing with a responsive grid for https://kylewm.com/ ... on small screens, I want half of the left sidebar above the content and half at the bottom. is that possible?
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: great! I’ll do that.
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: I think extending Element sounds like a goiod idea
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: looking
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JonathanNeal I would prefer to create a global variable, like window.fragmention
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: there is an experimental spec called CSS regions that allows you to do that. But it is note well supported and frankly complicated
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: maybe. I really don't know JS best practices so up to your good judgement
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: also always good to start designing from small screens. So at small screens make the source order as you'd like then use CSS for larger screens for fancy stuff
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KartikPrabhu so I'd actually do <sidebar1><content><sidebar2> on small screens and then CSS on larger ones to look like one sidebar
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kylewm gotcha, OK thanks!
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kylewm that is what i was trying to do but there is some magic somewhere that makes the second sidebar move all the way to the bottom
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kylewm a clear:both i assume
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KartikPrabhu yeah
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KartikPrabhu that should work. though I forget if it is clear-both on the sidebar or the thing right above it. I always have to fiddle with it a few times
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: it seems the only way to do it is to float: right the main content
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KartikPrabhu hmmm yeah you ave to use float and clear
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KartikPrabhu clear only works on floating elements
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kylewm all the columns are float:left to begin with
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kylewm but it seems that you can't tuck the second sidebar in to the left of a column that is already floated left
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kylewm which sort of makes sense
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KartikPrabhu yeah float follows source order while deciding which thingy goes first
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Loqi tantek: KartikPrabhu left you a message on 7/4 at 9:22pm: I think algorthmic short URLs are for machines not humans. we should discuss/debate this! maybe then I can get miffed at you for being a pig-head ;)
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aaronpk well that's an unusual comment out of context
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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tantek KartikPrabhu slugs are more human friendly, if that's what you're getting at ;)
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tantek welcome laz!
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laz Hey
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tantek laz, what's your personal site?
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lazlazlaz1 http://gelatindesign.co.uk
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lazlazlaz1 I'm just looking at getting it all Indie-fied
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lazlazlaz1 Though I was wondering, how have people approached doing POSSE syndication on a static site?
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lazlazlaz1 Or is that not even relevant? (still reading the wiki)
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tantek there are a few here who have done so
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tantek bret in particular has a pretty good setup for on his static site, including sending/handling webmentions as well
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lazlazlaz1 Ok, cool
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tantek laz, it looks like you have links to both your github and twitter on your personal domain. if you make a couple of minor markup changes you should be able to use your domain to sign into the wiki!
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tantek in both cases, change <a href="http:// … to <a rel="me" href="https:// ...
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lazlazlaz1 Yep, already on that, just gotta pull it on the server
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tantek (rel="me" and http to https
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Loqi !calc (rel="me" and http to https
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tantek nice!
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tantek and then add your domain to your github profile https://github.com/lsjroberts
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lazlazlaz1 It's a really interesting approach to authentication, definitely something I'll be implementing on my future projects
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tantek the key is that it's asking you to do *very little* in terms of changes to your site
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tantek it's taking advantage of the fact that you already have links to other service's profiles